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Drupal Developers Threaten To Quit Drupal Unless Larry Garfield Is Reinstated (drupalconfessions.org)
An anonymous reader writes: Slashdot previously covered the story of Larry Garfield, a Drupal developer who was allegedly banned from the community for his BDSM/Gorean lifestyle, after he was outed by a colleague with a grudge. Now, dozens of core Drupal developers, committers, and funders have banded together in an open letter to Dries Buytaert, the CTO of Acquia, Drupal trademark owner, and Benevolent Dictator for Life (BDFL) of the Drupal project. Among other things, they demand that Larry Garfield be reinstated, threatening to abandon the project if their demands are not met. Here's an excerpt from the letter: "If you will not fight for us and restore our faith in the professionalism of the Drupal community, then a number of us will be permanently leaving the Drupal community, ceasing all contributions to the official, Drupal-branded branch of the codebase, and ceasing participation in all Drupal communities. This is not our first choice, but we cannot and will not participate in a community that encourages abusers to totally destroy people's careers for personal or ideological reasons."
this is unequivocally great. good for them.
With the god awful state of drupal I had assumed developers had long since abandoned it
Abandon the project, then nuke it from orbit.
It would be a boring world if people could not enjoy some socially-unaccepted hobbies in private without fearing for their employment.
Would it be okay to launch an Internet-wide Two Minutes' Hate against them to put pressure on their employer? (Assume, perhaps, that they're in some leadership position â" like, say, CTO.)
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
O yes all good devs just love to take over projects from crappy devs.
Please txt me the number to your dealer i want what you are smoking
If it doesn't affect their work, counter examples being excessive drinking or drug taking. I dislike cats (they shit in my garden and eat garden birds) but will work with people that own them.
The key words here are mutual consent and boundaries. He was not asking or coercing any of his coworkers to join him. So, I'm with the letter writers.
On y va, qui mal y pense!
Once you sack a person, you cannot re-instate them. They hold grudges for being sacked, they act like they're bigger than their boss and many other personality traits make it impossible.
So he cannot re-instate this developer, right or wrong. All Dries can do is sack others who outed the developer for their political attacks on the private lives of their fellow Drupal developers.
That would be the maximum, he'll probably just say some calming words and move on with it.
It is free speech, you just don't like his views. His views have nothing to do with Drupal and you put forward no evidence that he did anything unprofessional in his Drupal work.
"This creed is of the kind that no organization, especially at a progressive open".... do you have a wife? If your wife holds the view that men should dominate women.. is that ok with you? Or does she rule herself out of wife hood and employment because of it?
First, someone's personal life is their business. We are supposed to be building code, not snooping.
Second, he was doxxed. Fruit of the poison tree.
Third, maybe most importantly, who cares what you have to say about Gorean philosophy. They are BDSM addicts who play too much D&D.
Fourth, someone was genuinely hurt by seeing this doxxed screenshot. Let's not forget the victim.
https://twitter.com/DrupalScar... ... with that in mind, we can't do something to keep the two separated? It's a HUGE community. Take him off session selection if you want. Chase him out - we can do better than that. We're supposed to be innovators. Find a better way.
But don't have a history of skills. That means you're too old.
It would be a boring world if people could not enjoy some socially-unaccepted hobbies in private without fearing for their employment.
Hobby?
For crying out loud, he kept a sex slave for several years. The sex slave was a vulnerable highly-autistic woman. She also had social agoraphobia. Garfield then passed her on to a friend of his.
Please, where can I find a nubile girl who will let me fuck her in the ass?
He called for the death of all thinking people. He wanted us arrested and beaten to death. That is the way of his xian kind.
That's nothing. I call for total genocide of all living things.
Actually, if anything, it goes the other way:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p...
He wanted less control of marriage by the government. That proves he is a Nazi. We need more government control.
Open source project. Major schism in the developer base.
DEAD
The asshole who thought he was in charge killed it.
Thinking people don't marry and he did. That proves him to be stupid.
False. Larry does not follow any such creed. He plays at it. Play, fantasy.
He does say that it is his contention that some women enjoy this some of the time. He would appear to be correct as he has a number of active feminist ex-lovers supporting him. Reports of his general behaviour with and to women have been described by women and men (how would they know!) as exemplary.
There are also Gorean groups where gender is reversed. So what?
There is a difference between fantasy and real life. Accept that.
If he treated people as you claim you would have a point but he does not do so and you do not have a point.
If it doesn't affect their work, counter examples being excessive drinking or drug taking. I dislike cats (they shit in my garden and eat garden birds) but will work with people that own them.
The key words here are mutual consent and boundaries. He was not asking or coercing any of his coworkers to join him. So, I'm with the letter writers.
--
Honi soit qui mal y pense
support free speech online
Blue Ribbon Campaign
So do I. You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes well you might find you get what you need...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Give a platform to? Did he use the open source project to promote his lifestyle?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Politics, bedroom antics, sports, reading habits, religion - none of it should be a firing offence and those bosses who think they should own people instead of employ them are the problem.
I don't even know what proposition 8 is (maybe I heard but forgot) but whatever politics someone has it shouldn't matter in the workplace unless you are directly working for a political group on political matters. So you do plumbing for the Republicans? Who cares if you used to support Castro.
So ... Stephen King should be arrested? I mean, read his books, that's sick shit this guy is into!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
...what is the issue here? I don't get it.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
This. More control is needed.
Wait? WTF did you just say? You just said it didn't affect their work, so how could you possibly then say it is an exception? If I fit shows up for work every day, bangs out quality work with a positive attitude, what business of yours is it if he uses drugs including Alcohol on his own time? Brainwashed by the government much?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Never met a smart married person.
I agree. All Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Christians, and half the people in the southern US should be fired immediately! I guess you don't even realize that you just said that, do you?
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
BUT,
The project does NOT endorse or give a platform to the guys views, He has been politically correct and polite with all his co-workers in all his work with the project etc. His work has been fine , What man does and thinks in his private life is his affair and nobody elses. If you dismiss somebody from a project it needs to be for a project related reason! or your no better yourself.
If you quit there is no severance, this is a perfect time to out source most of the development without having to have a messy layoff process. Simple sit back and wait for all the developers quit.
Yeah, but have you ever read any romance novels for women? They're generally absolutely full of the same kind of sentiment. In many of them, there are bad men who hold this philosophy, but they're generally there to act as foils for the "right" man.
The thing is, men and women should be equal, philosophically, but when it comes to our emotions, especially regarding mating, both men and women often have some fundamental, ingrained notions that don't care about philosophy. Most people who practice BDSM compartmentalize this sort of thing. Some of the time they live one way, some of the time they live the other. On Friday a woman might be an empowered feminist businesswoman, and on Saturday she might be groveling at her master's feet begging to be whipped. Similarly, on Friday a man might be a competent, traditionally masculine professional, and on Sunday he might be begging at the feet of his mistress. The man and the woman from the example could the same couple. Maybe they squeeze both into Saturday and just go antiquing on Sunday. The point is that they live their normal lives fundamentally as equals. But sometimes they're not, and they wouldn't do it if, somewhere inside, they didn't have an emotional need for it.
It's the only way to be sure.
This is a complex matter, way beyond "personal life".
Because this is brought into the open, supporting this Larry is supporting this philosophy. Gender equality and male dominance are a very touchy subject in the technology industry, rightly so, too.
On the other side, banning Larry is supporting the tactics by this disgruntled colleague. Not something you want to support either.
Personally, I would throw them both out and damn the consequences but I am one to put principles over practicalities.
As I said on the previous post about this situation, who cares? His code still works, and there are no allegations that he's trying to fuck the other contributors or for that matter, practicing his kinks with anyone who's not consenting to how he gets his rocks off.
However repugnant "goreanism" might be, I'm rather more repulsed by someone like you demanding that hackers pass some kind of political purity test. Go fuck yourself.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
My bet is that developers were, in general, in doubt about or unhappy with the direction of the Drupal project to begin with. Instead of admitting that the project was not on sound ground, this is a convenient out for the community. Note that I have no evidence to back this up, just speculation. But I think it's a possibility. It seems doubtful that a lot of big players would threaten to abandon a project that is making them oodles of money.
I think you missed the keyword "excessive" in GP's post.
"Excessive" being the amount where it starts to affect people other than just yourself.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
This is why I love Slashdot!
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
You don't understand. Social Justice is all about power: the power to tell others how to live their lives, how to act, how to speak. It's certainly not about making the world a better place. And conformance won't mean you will be left alone or even tolerated, it just means they will find something else to control you with.
So this guy is into an alternative lifestyle. Good for him, I say. Now his fellow developers support him. That makes them good people too, in my book.
Come out of the closet. It's ok.
What if Larry Garfield was the bottom instead of the dom? Would that be acceptable to you? Or what about if his submissive girlfriend had a job at Drupal and didn't want to stop being submissive? Would you want her fired as well? Do you see what I'm getting at? If they're both consenting adults, why do we need to mess with their sexual identities?
And I do think that the anonymous scared drupalista on Twitter is being unfair to the guy. How would you react if an anonymous heterosexual man said he was afraid of sharing the stage at a drupal conference with a gay man? You'd call that person out. After all, most gay men don't go out raping heterosexual men (either on stage or even in private). And yes, the heterosexual man may be completely disgusted by the gay dude, but he has to get over his disgust of sharing the stage with him and get over his desire to punish/change the gay guy.
Last I remember, Drupal's mission wasn't to change people's perfectly legal sexual identities or fetishes.
Not so much power as privilege - private law. Power usually has responsibilities accompanying it and they sure do not want to be responsible for anything.
Don't get me wrong, I'm really happy to see this sort of support emerge but they are being hypocrites.
> We reject harassment, intimidation, and bullying of professionals in the name of moral crusading.
This is *exactly what they are doing*. They are trying to intimidate the CTO (a professional) with the threat of harming Drupal in the name of a moral crusade. Hardly a rejection of that behaviour..
Exactly. Donating money to people that thing we're subhuman just because we're immoral is something all thinking people know is wrong. He was a moron and couldn't program. Their kind is not logical.
"but we cannot and will not participate in a community that encourages abusers to totally destroy people's careers for personal or ideological reasons." ... unless they're one's we disagree with. C'mon - this is crap. If his sexual preference was for young children, or he misogynist who refused to hire women then noone would have a problem with this. This is just a bunch of people who are pushing their own agenda, just like the people who fired him.
The facts of life are the people with the money get to pick their workers, and even if those people quit there are plenty of people who can replace them. And those people will be less likely to try to hold their employer hostage with the threat of quitting and draining the company of intellectual property.
The best course of action would be to let these people go (even if they're right) - they are not the people you want working at your company. Sure, it might take six months to get back up to speed, but it is worth it to get rid of those people.
...against sex slavery.
Also, simpletons who take the reductive position that everything can be reduced to market mechanisms can fuck right off.
What we've learned from this is that a large proportion of Drupal developers would happily enslave disabled women. The project has more reasons for dying off now than just being technically shit, although maybe these pusillanimous masturbators just wanted the perfect excuse to jump a sinking ship.
I can see both sides: The commercial product doesn't want the bad press attached to product. The OSS developers say that they're giving free support son what someone does in their bedroom shouldn't matter. Personally I side with the developers. But I respect the commercial services discussion.
Having said that: if the developers are that passionate they should branch the code. Start their own project. Maybe make it their own commercial product.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I have actually met a number of women who *DO* think that is an acceptable lifestyle tradeoff, some sexual abuse victims, some not. Not a lifestyler myself either, but online you tend to meet a *LOT* of kink sceners if you prove tolerant and non-judgemental of others lifestyle choices.
Having said that: trying to judge how other people live their lives, outside of ensuring they have a 'way out' if they ever decide they no longer desire that lifestyle is a really shitty attitude to have in a country that was founded on alternative lifestyles, whether religious or involving power play (which I will note many early peopels, both natives and colonists seemed to partake in, judging by the slave trade, abuse of natives and rape/war brides.)
My cat doesn't like you either, but is quite appreciative of the nice place you've provided for him to take a shit and hunt for delicious birds. So for that he can accept your dislike by not giving a fuck about it while he takes a blissful nap.
Do the needful curryhead and learn real Inglish. By definition excessive drinking would affect work. Let me ask you - if a moron doesn't understand a plain well-defined expression, makes up his own definition which means the opposite and argues with it - is that like two morons talking to each other or 3? It's nice having a brain to have washed. At least we don't wash our shit-covered ass with our hands.
But I'm a Hillary supporter and have a micropenis. In fact, everyone im my micropenis support group are Hillary supporters.
Ah yes. Those are indeed all religions of the Gorean philosophy. Oh wait, those are the extremist people of those religions, not the people of those religions. Yes re-tartballs, if someone thinks women are there to serve him, and you can find this out about them by googling their name, he immediately gets his ass canned because he's an hr accident and lawsuit waiting to happen. Have you ever, um, worked in an office (food court at the mall doesn't count)?
Any more bright sarcasm for us there reddit-boy? I swear, where the fuck are these millennials coming from on slashdot recently? Here's a hint Jr. Douchetart - if you don't know shit about something, presenting your opinion as sarcastic and overly strong just makes your idiot thoughts stand out more. Orthodox Jews have the women serving them.. Are you a complete moron? Orthodox Jewomen are the head of the family. Source - lived in Israel a few months. Big fucking nose on my face. Have a good day at school moron.
Gah, you've said Drupal so many times it's like its not even a word any more!
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Can't we have a straight normal heterosexual as a developer for once?
Goreanism is misogyny
Is it? You have any evidence that Goreans hate women? What about the women? Do they hate themselves?
Or are you just throwing around labels and reacting from ignorance?
As a radical leftist, feminist, and someone who's been labeled an SJW many times in her life, Gorean fantasy, BDSM, and whatever consenting adults want to do with each other in a fantasy setting is their own private affairs. So long as theres proper consent and aftercare and everyone's enjoying themselves safely who the heck cares!?
If he was bringing those mindsets into the workplace or outside of the context of scenes and fantasy, imposing it on others without consent, then there'd be a huge problem. Otherwise, let people live their lives, have their fun, be themselves, etc!
I don't understand why this is a hard concept for people.
AC because I CBA to remember what my login is.
- Erin
Wait? With a question mark? Like, you're not sure you want to wait, or you're asking if I have time to wait? And why did you capitalize alcohol?
Drupal is crap software
Yep, Drupal users are the BDSM submissives.
Now we can work on outing those filthy trekkies and driving them out of drupal too.
Their personal beliefs sicken me and their behaviour?
I swear...
They're Nothing but tribble.
Actually, it's an old thing in new clothes. It's about perverting social justice - which is a good thing, into puritanism reanimated - which is a terrible thing.
As an Educator in Second Life, it pains me to see yet another misconception tainting both the platform and the individuals using it.
I know Gor well, it is an opt-in, totally user-choice, sub-set within Second Life. The concept of BDSM is secondary within Gof to the point of almost being perfunctory.
I suspect that Larry Garfield has no connection with SL beyond the two words BDSM and Gor. It's a sad day when people's careers are needlessly impeded by others who presume they know, without knowing.
The Drupal project would be well-served to jettison Larry Garfield from the project as an individual like this that is so narrow-thinking, is likely to make other mistakes when it comes to the code and direction of the project.
Just an Educators view.
Why not? Why can they spend their time ans energy and resources to further their political views but I can't for mine? Be specific. And note that I am not Congress.
"do the needful" is real Inglish? fucking kids. demand a refund from your parents. they failed your upbringing.
The guy likes to treat (consenting) women as slaves, and thinks they deserve to be treated that way, per the Gorian lifestyle.
That will overflow into his work life one way or another.
And its why I love gay bars!
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
That's how I know I hit the mark.
Now I'm never going to stop making these points.
Sorry for the bad quote level screwup on the last reply.
While my own tastes are remarkably pedestrian - most would say normal, coward has a good point.
This is workplace interference in a person's sexual behavior.
If he was performing his weird shit - and make no mistake, this is plain weird - on a woman who did not give consent, it would be a no brainer, that's sexual assault.
But now we have to ask ourselves, should his lady friend be sought out and fired from wherever it is that she works? Two willing and consensual participants in any other "crime" are treated as co-criminals.
And I'll re-iterate, if the roles were reversed, should the woman be fired, and the submissive man be viewed as her victim?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I never thought I'd say this, but can we bring the GNAA guys back? They were less annoying than idiots with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Whether they take him back or they don't, they're going to lose devs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Islam as an idea, not the people. Why is wanting to nonviolently stop a religion extreme?
If this guy had been dumped because he voted for Prop 8 in CA or contributed to Trump, these pansy developers would throw him under the bus without reservation.
I guess some personal or ideological reasons are more equal than others.
That position is exactly as valid as saying that the opposition to "Social Justice" is merely a bunch of amoral recalcitrants.
But really you're just using "Social Justice" to mean "people I don't like". Because to the degree that that has anything to do with this subject, basically the strongest argument that can be brought to bear would be that the "slave" women have internalized the Patriarchy to the point of self-degradation. But if you're wont to hold that opinion, there are quite a few things higher on the list than private sex games.
What you're doing is virtue signaling. It's not very intelligent and rather boring.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
There is a difference between fantasy and real life. Accept that.
Careful. The legal world has refused to accept that. Fantasizing about kiddie porn is illegal.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2...
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
That's bullshit. For most Goreans, it's just another background for their personal BDSM play. And there are many kinks that might be politically uncorrect, but nobody should care as long as they are done by consenting adults. Since I'm active in the BDSM scene, I know many people and almost none of them believe that their personal relationship model preference should somehow be forced upon everyone else.
"do the needful" was British English. America misplaced it, India did not.
While this is actually an interesting point, I see one difference: Voting for Prop8 would actually lead to people suffering. It's something that objectively makes life harder for some people. Roleplaying some fantasy BDSM in your bedroom (or wherevere you want) with other consenting adults WITHOUT ever treating someone outside differently for it does not make life harder for anyone and does not lead to someone suffering (at least not someone who doesn't want that). So, since there was no accusation of him actually treating women worse or forcing himself onto them because of his sexual preferences, the comparison to Prop8 voters is (imho) not quite correct: Nobody was ever harmed by his private bedroom games.
This creed is of the kind that no organization, especially at a progressive open source project, should endorse or give a platform to.
Indeed. If they don't want to give a platform for them then they shouldn't have Gorean slaves coding while the project managers are whipping them.
Oh what this isn't what happened?
Well they shouldn't host Gorean parties or provide a forum for them.
That didn't happen either?
So clearly they aren't endorsing anything other than the fact that they are unable to separate the private life of a person from his work. Unless there is anything at all that is reflected in the work that he is doing, the only reason I know that Drupal is such a shit project managed by mysoganistic woman abusers in the first place is that they fired this guy for it.
Congradu-fucking-lations Barbra Streisand. You just got up and declared yourself to not be associated with something no one gave a shit about. But we care now, just not for the reasons you want.
Never thought the community would unite behind such a twisted deviant.
He's a Drupal developer for fucks sake.
It is satisfying to be telling alt-left* to accept an alternative lifestyle.
The crowd of acceptance, not being able to accept.
But a submissive bottom ? Well, that's under the righteous LGBT umbrella. Sacrosanct. Women being submissive ? Untolerable.
*I'm sure the alt-right have problems with this also.
We don't even want those disgusting fume emitting tobacco burners within 100 meters of our building.
But vaping? Totally fine man.
HMM.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
there can be only one!
that is why he was outed!
i feel the quickenning!
-CTO
http://travel.cnn.com/mumbai/l...
4. 'Doing the needful'
Try to avoid using the phrase "do the needful." It went out of style decades ago, about the time the British left.
Using it today indicates you are a dinosaur, a dinosaur with bad grammar.
You may use the phrase humorously, to poke fun at such archaic speech, or other dinosaurs.
“Will you do the needful?”
“Of course, and I’ll send you a telegram to let you know it's done too.”
I've lived in the UK I don't remember the brits ever using that expression.
How is this modded insightful? Social justice is no more about power than anything is generally, this is just how people are. Furthermore, social justice IS about making the world a better place, the observation here is that it is often corrupted by people's flaws just as everything else is. The OP couldn't be more wrong.
Social justice doesn't oppose alternative lifestyles, in fact it desires "justice" for them. If the "alternative lifestyle" is one that creates injustice then that's the problem. Not saying that's the case here, just that the OP is a moron.
and his parallel ATA66 IDE Primary channel HDD is Slave to a Master CDROM drive...
you could poke an eye out.
Codes of Conduct area bad idea to begin with. They are just vessels for intersectionalists to wield faux authority over adults that don't care about their ludicrous ideology, institutionalizing thought police and virtue signalling instead of meritocracy. It's the oppression olympics.
If a project or group has a CoC, it should merely read:
1) Don't be an asshole to other group members.
2) If you are called out for being an asshole to another member, apologize.
3) If you don't think you were being an asshole, ask someone else. If they think you were being an asshole, maybe you were, think about apologizing.
4) Repetitive assholery gets you booted.
5) Realize when a joke is just a joke, and don't be offended at every goddamn thing.
6) If you are repeatedly offended by everything, maybe you are the problem and can't get along with others. Stop harassing productive adults.
7) Don't be an asshole to other group members. Yes, this is repeated.
Because that religion isn't the evil Christianity.
At least you're not from the Micro-soft support group. That would be double the tragedy.
Remember it's not the size that matters, but if it's Soft as well....
"McCarthyism IS about making the world a better place."
Thanks, but no thanks.
And I'll re-iterate, if the roles were reversed, should the woman be fired, and the submissive man be viewed as her victim?
Unless you have some evidence that he was let go because he victimized someone, and not because his semi-private ideals (how hard is it to get on this forum anyway?) conflicted with the stated ideals of the foundation, then that is not at all the question, though I am not surprised to see you asking it as a means of prevarication. Last time I heard, he was let go for that reason and for unspecified "other reasons". If you have a citation as to what those "other reasons" are which does not boil down to speculation, I'm interested in reading it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The Gorean lifesyle is disgusting! Spending your days giving global warming lectures and pretending you invented the internet is no way to live your life.
After reading Larry's blog post (and I recommend reading the whole thing) - I've come away realizing Drupal is in the wrong here, and the community is absolutely right to stand up for him. This isn't a man publicly arguing women are less than men. It's a man who is into BDSM and who enjoys a master slave relationship within the context of his romantic/sex life in a way that is wonderfully aware of active consent. That's fine. Some men and women enjoy being dominated, others enjoy dominating. Some like that to mix with how they live life - and that's also fine.
What isn't fine is ignoring the Gorean side of this or failing to see the problems with that culture - just as we need to see the problems with any culture (for example Judeo/Christrian/Muslim culture and how they view apostates, women, and non-believers). I believe we can be critical without blaming everyone in those cultures or destroying those cultures. It's fine to disagree and debate.
Drupal should reinstate this guy (since that seems to be what he wants. Though personally I'd argue he should join a programming community that better respects diversity and values people more.
Lastly I'll add this. It is worth considering that viewing women as less then men can be harmful, even deadly. It leads to treating people as mere objects, restricting their human rights, etc. Look at women in Saudi Arabia for instance. But I'm far more worried about that threat coming from conservative fundamentalist religions than from a sex subculture inspired by novels.
The obvious passage above should have read: Let's go ahead and postulate that he has only ever been in situations which have involved informed consent, because that is irrelevant to the issue at hand.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Excessive is subjective. That's your definition, there are others.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
My dog _loves_ cats. But they don't all love him, some run...fun.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I have a British friend in CA who left 20+ years ago and uses that expression regularly.
If you haven't figured out yet that intentionally harming people is wrong, the GP can't help you.
Now I'm never going to stop making these points.
Nor did any of the televangelists I grew up with, They were all sure that there was no place for perverts in society. They didn't like the way some people had sex, and they wanted to persecute them for it. Just like you.
Seems like they lost. Likely the moral scolds in this case will lose too. Make whatever points you want, it's all free speech, but moral scolds are bad people, and you are one.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Ancedotes are like assholes. Everybody has atleast one.
xD
The water was cold. It was shrinkage.
Fucking A'
Somebody once told me that's how god works...during a BDSM session.
xD
In MI the phrase means to use the toilet.
I am a Brit who left 18 years ago, and have never heard that expression used except by Indians and Brits who were mocking / copying Indians.
Dodging the question much?
Of course not. Men cannot be victims of women, just like whites cannot be the victim of racism. The victim mentality does not allow for those viewed as the oppressors to be the victims. Being a victim is synonymous with moral superiority, so since the oppressors can never be morally superior they can never be the victim. You could propose that society seek out and kill members of a certain sex and/or race, or disallow them from voting, and to the person with the victim mentality it could only be morally reprehensible if the target was morally superior in their judgment. If the target was perceived to be morally inferior (by their judgment), then such actions are not only morally acceptable, but justified.
To wit: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/shelley-garland/could-it-be-time-to-deny-white-men-the-franchise_a_22036640/
Islam as an idea, not the people. Why is wanting to nonviolently stop a religion extreme?
Nice try, but if you read some of her quotes you'd notice ones advocating that the "west" use military means to "defeat" Islam. You don't engage in a military solution against ideas. You don't bomb ideas. You bomb the people who have the ideas.
A dog cannot say "yes", nor give you consent to other... activities, so it's animal abuse.
Fascinating.
... almost none of them believe that their personal relationship model preference should somehow be forced upon everyone else.
IOW, some do. At least you are honest enough not to invoke the 'no-true-scotsman' fallacy
OTOH clearly some who are accepted in the BDSM community DO believe in actual coercion and slavery. I already knew this as I have read some of their writings.
So there is no blanket rule as to how to deal with people in this 'lifestyle'. Each one has to be carefully evaluated as to their true beliefs and actions.
TLDR: Consent. What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
And no one wants to hear either.
Same here, I dislike cats and the BDSM lifestyle but I'll fight for freedom and the ability to live the way anyone wants so long as other's aren't being hurt without consent.
Are you trolling? Mildest BDSM photo ever.
The fucking collar is on a dog-chain single finger release. The woman has complete control over her situation (absent of course psychological manipulation, but the photo is not evidence of that.
Would you ban someone who displays Mapplethorpe?
Yeah, you can't peacefully stop all thought even on a forbidden topic. Everyone taking part in it has to willingly agree to give it up. Assuming that's impossible - and it is impossible - even a peaceful method of erasing ideas from other peoples minds would be tyranny.
You label all 14 year old boys as sexual predators.
This disqualifies you from any opinions on this complicated, nuanced subject.
Gorean is a Dominant / Submissive variant where males are very macho dominant and females are slutty submissive. It is based on an old (1960s-1970s) series of fantasy novels by John Norman.
Larry Garfield follows a misogynistic creed
No, he doesn't, but you do.
A roleplaying woman (or man) can just say a safe word and the roleplay ends.
On the other end, regarding their public exposure and your interpretation of their "creed", there is no amount of safe words that will end the condemnation, the slut-shaming, and the attempted reprisals, from the likes of you.
I say "their public exposure", because it becomes pretty obvious that Larry Garfield wasn't the only one exposed. Any girlfriends or women he publicly dated would get the "gor" label as well. And because of this incident, a number of previous lovers did feel the need to out themselves as feminists and roleplaying women to defend him and his livelihood.
I think these signators don't understand what they're protesting.
I think they do. They are protesting the mistreatment of a member of their community.
The letter is shot through with social justice language, but Larry Garfield follows a misogynistic creed and there is nothing wrong with ousting him.
There is absolutely something wrong with ousting someone because you don't agree with what they do in the privacy of their bedroom with consenting partners.
The Gorean philosophy is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead.
The Gorean philosophy is a BDSM variant based on a series of fantasy novels.
This is inconsistent with the goals of project Drupal and is not a free speech issue.
Project Drupal is not about peoples sex lives.
This creed is of the kind that no organization, especially at a progressive open source project, should endorse or give a platform to.
He was not invited, nor has he attempted to, jump up on stage at a Drupal conference and talk about his sex life.
It was a quaint archaism over a century ago. British English used it in the 18th century, and it arrived in India alongside the British. Many quirks of Indian English have similarly ancient roots, although some are innovations and most are the product of people learning the language (e.g. Hindi speakers conflate "softly" and "slowly" as Sanskrit had only one word for both.)
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
In the past I've been labeled a social justice warrior, but I support this guy's right to do what he likes in the bedroom with a consenting adult.
So am I not an SJW, or are you wrong about SJW motives and beliefs?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Worst CMS ever. Let the project die and get these people doing something worthy of their talents and skills.
Now that's a Freudian slip to be proud of!
Also maybe talk to some people and crack open some books AC. If you get out more and find out a bit more about the world you won't see women as being so alien and you'll see your "Why are some forms of bigotry legal, and others a crime" as ridiculous and embarrassing.
Eich was forced out for the horrible crime of expressing a political opinion shared by the overwhelming majority of the American populace and considered obviously-correct for all of history until the last five years.
Down with democracy! Down with the moral teachings of all major world religions! Down with happy healthy childhood! Long live financial oligarchy! Long live sodomy! Long live emotionally damaged children!
This is the Progressive future. Don't like it? Too bad - it's going to be forced on you literally at gunpoint. Why? Fuck you, plebians, that's why!
I taint. youre just really, really, really stupid. you'll figure it out like you do everything. 2 hours after it's same hours late.
you're one of those "technically correct" by redefining the world people - ugly nerd with a half-autism thing going on. annoying as shit to talk to. you can literally argue the blue is pink - refraction equations and all, completely ignoring the actual color.
no fucknuts. an excessive drinker is not a person who is a positive-attitude ideal workhorse as was described. I know, you never leave the house, but that is what we call the world, where an excessive drinker is an alcoholic whose life is or is getting wrecked. your "subjective" definition only applies in your apartment that you're afraid to leave. how was grubhub today loser? by the way, thanks for being afraid of us normal people and staying away from us. you are way too ugly to be seen, and we appreciate you keeping that indoors, you fucking retarded reject.
If it is a part of your "lifestyle" to force your opinions on others who are unwilling
You mean like voting?
Dodging the question much?
I'm not answering it because it's irrelevant to the situation, which you are mischaracterizing. Since that's not what happened (even with the genders reversed) the question is completely irrelevant to the current situation. Unless, once again, you have some evidence that is what happened, in which case, you are cordially invited to share it. Otherwise, you are cordially invited to go attempt aviary copulation with a ventrally rotating toroidal fried pastry.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Dries MUST act in the Open Source way. Consult the users in a democratic manner, and execute the outcome.
If not he will loose much more than just Larry. he might loose it all.
Look how Mark Shuttleworth reversed on Unity. Dries can do that too. Bring back Larry.
If it is a part of your "lifestyle" to force your opinions on others who are unwilling
You mean like voting?
And interesting response. My first thought is that voting is a rather minimal use of force, but when a block votes that that is no longer minimal, so they should expect another block to act against them, and to publicly encourage others to act against them. I'm not really satisfied that this entirely addresses your point, however.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I don't know where you think you are posting but I think I'm posting in a comments section attached to a story about Larry Garfield being fired by Dries Buytaert for what he got up to in his bedroom outside of work time.
I have not even mentioned Eich before. I'm not even sure what he is supposed to have done let alone defending him for it. Is this just your baggage or is it actually related in some way?
You don't represent normal people, u 14 year old rookie
40, well-off jew, have been to 100+ countries, lived in 5 and speak 5 languages, but in highschool I did stuff nerds into lockers. next guess?
i have only one question: how many women signed that letter? i wonder... (oh yes, how is that relevant? why should they matter anyway? oh yeah, what the hell am i thinking, they don't. never mind...)
and, as one comment points out: hobbies should be private and not result in public consequences. really? degrading women because you think women deserve to and should be degraded is a hobby? you're weird.
and as i glance up i see this: a nazi who furthers his ideology peacefully. are you fucking kidding me? do you realize nazi-ism was "peaceful" for years until it suddenly wasn't.
what's the fucking iq average around here?
Beats me.
and not because his semi-private ideals
What ideals? If I play chess in "semi-private" with the usual rules, does that mean I have the ideal that white should go first?
Last time I heard, he was let go for that reason and for unspecified "other reasons". If you have a citation as to what those "other reasons" are which does not boil down to speculation, I'm interested in reading it.
Sorry, I don't buy that those "unspecified reasons" exist. Dries Buytaert had no problem talking about Larry Garfield's alleged "ideals", but refused to mention any other reason. What makes discussion of Garfield's bedroom proclivities even of remote relevance to the decision to end Garfield's participation in Drupal?