Bose Headphones Secretly Collected User Data, Lawsuit Reveals (fortune.com)

The audio maker Bose, whose wireless headphones sell for up to $350, uses an app to collect the listening habits of its customers and provide that information to third parties -- all without the knowledge and permission of the users, according to a lawsuit filed in Chicago. From a report: The complaint accuses Boston-based Bose of violating the WireTap Act and a variety of state privacy laws, adding that a person's audio history can include a window into a person's life and views. "Indeed, one's personal audio selections -- including music, radio broadcast, Podcast, and lecture choices -- provide an incredible amount of insight into his or her personality, behavior, political views, and personal identity," says the complaint, noting a person's audio history may contain files like LGBT podcasts or Muslim call-to-prayer recordings.

Comments

Your headphones are spying on you.

[sheramil]

Paranoid yet?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[messymerry]

Good lord, I was playing Pepper by the Butthole Surfers. Good song, BTW...

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Joe_Dragon]

hootie and the blowfish it's cheaper the blank tape

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Mycroft-X]

noting a person's audio history may contain files like LGBT podcasts or Muslim call-to-prayer recordings.

Why do people who, if you asked them, would say that things like the above shouldn't be stigmatized, then go out of their way to stigmatize them with an implication that content in those categories should be subject to some sort of special expectation of privacy?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, I don't know, perhaps because dickheads persecute them for it?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not a special expectation of privacy, it is pointing out the very real repercussions that some people would face if their privacy was wrong. Its not a special class, its an example that is intended to illuminate potential problems, not exclude other peoples problems.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

herp a derp no one is watching me

watching != logging, learn the fucking difference, EVERYTHING is logging you

Bonus nerdbitch, insert remark re: ongoing attempts to take analog audio prisoner to insert digital gatekeepers

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[stealth_finger]

Oh, I don't know, perhaps because dickheads persecute them for it?

So, do you want it normalised or stigmatised?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[cayenne8]

Why do people who, if you asked them, would say that things like the above shouldn't be stigmatized...

Who says that....?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[squiggleslash]

Why do people who, if you asked them, would say that things like the above shouldn't be stigmatized, then go out of their way to stigmatize them with an implication that content in those categories should be subject to some sort of special expectation of privacy?

Your logic doesn't follow. The issue is that they're already subject to stigma. Therefore (1) we need to remove that, (2) until we do, we need to ensure people who are LGBT or people with minority religious beliefs aren't targeted for that.

The second part of your claim doesn't even make sense. You're not making something subject to stigma by hiding the fact you're doing it, you're hiding it because it's stigmatized.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Normalized, of course, but I'd greatly prefer to live in a society where things such as one's sexual preferences or religious veiws are left up to the individual when and if to disclose them, regardless of what they are.

That isn't stigmatization in the least.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[sheramil]

I truly pity the NSA operatives assigned to keep track of my doings. "Good lord, how many hours of minecraft can one person play before their skull caves in?"

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure smells like false dichotomy in here.

I'd like it ignored, because it's nunya fucking business.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Quirkz]

There's nothing special about the right to privacy, and stigmatization doesn't have to have anything to do with it. Anything you don't want to reveal, you ought to be able to keep to yourself. Religion and sexuality get cited a lot, because they're commonly things people might not want to reveal to strangers, corporations, etc.

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about you but all my gay friends never felt persecuted by dick heads.

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Muslim beliefs arnt the minority.....

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[ChrisMaple]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but it does get them excited xD

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Social justice is a religion to save people from oppression. If they did what they claimed and actually removed oppression, well that would be like Christians not preaching divine punishment. There would be no need for Jesus the savior if everyone goes to heaven anyway. Likewise without oppression there is no need for social justice.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

>...are left up to the individual when and if to disclose them, regardless of what they are.

Only one problem. There are people (on both sides), who feel compelled to announce their position & views all the time & claim victimhood if someone does not want to hear it. This is across the spectrum: traditional or alt.

It's very fashionable & a fad to make these announcements with the thought that "we're here & you will finally acknowledge us!". Each side now feels the others' position is being 'rubbed it in their face'. Nobody likes that, ever, through history, on either side.

TL;DR?
    Yes some people get louder than needed and it's a pain in societies rear. Both sides get needlessly loud in their announcements, (social media made it real easy too).

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that "villagers" are NSA agents, right?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[sjames]

Because even though they shouldn't be stigmatized, they are by some people in some places.

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

They are in ths US and many parts of Europe, where many of the Bose headphones are likely sold. If the headphones are also popular in predominantly muslim regions, users who listen to e.g. christian material would face the same issue.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Jawnn]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

So it's the killing you object to then, and not the beliefs. Have I got that right? Good, because I agree with you completely. Religious doctrine, the xtian bible for example, is full of dangerous ideas that no sane person would believe enough to actually act on. That doesn't mean the whole religion is bad or it's followers inherently evil. Right?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

And others such as Christianity include such great concepts like

- Who cares if you beat your children half to death on a daily basis
- Who cares if you beat your wife half to death on a daily basis
- Keep as many slaves as you want
- It isn't a sin to beat your slaves half to death on a daily basis
- Women are property and should be categorized among cattle and inkwells
- Usurious interest is A-OK unless you follow that stupid Old testament nonsense

Either it's approved by the belief system or simply not cared about and omitted by these "moral" documents

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[UnknownSoldier]

Can you show me _anywhere_ that Jesus said any of those things?

Because you're talking about the corrupted versions of men, specifically by Moses and Paul -- both, who ironically, who started their spiritual "careers" by murdering people.

Even in Jeremiah 8:8 it admits that scripture is corrupted:

"'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[JimFive]

Believing that something shouldn't be stigmatized does not preclude acknowledging that it is stigmatized.
--
JimFive

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have any idea how many mental gymnastics you're performing to absolve your religious faction of choice, while not affording the same to one you don't?

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

So it's the killing you object to then, and not the beliefs. Have I got that right? Good, because I agree with you completely. Religious doctrine, the xtian bible for example, is full of dangerous ideas that no sane person would believe enough to actually act on. That doesn't mean the whole religion is bad or it's followers inherently evil. Right?

Incorrect.

As the religion if followed does command you to hold and act on those beliefs it is on the whole evil.
If you want to salvage the non-evil parts you'd have to make a new religion. That's possible and has been attempted (this is how schisms happen), but doing it right for the big 3 religions requires admitting that the holy book is wrong (not juts misinterpreted) and the whole house of cards tends to collapse when you do that so they end up with the theological equivalent of electrical tape over the check engine light rather than actually fixing any problems in practice.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[losfromla]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

Yeah! Those fucking christians have always been a bloodthirsty bunch.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[losfromla]

Jesus supported Mosaic law. He believed it should be followed. Therefore he advocated all of those things and the murderers in your bible are just that. Your god is pretty much a dick as well:
Turns a woman to salt for caring about her neighbors.
Kills everyone on the planet because they made choices he didn't like.
Destroys two cities because they wanted to freely express their sexuality.
Thinks he has a great servant who offers up his daughters to a bunch of men so they won't bother some "angels".

And those are the good parts.

Here's a great one:
Everyone goes to hell for ever and ever and ever who doesn't do the magic prayer for whatever reason.

Have a great day! I imagine it's a bit difficult though while maintaining such a high level of cognitive dissonance.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[davester666]

What you have to worry about is "How many hours can someone spend watching someone else play minecraft before bashing their skull in?"

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[UnknownSoldier]

You mis-attributing to the pagan Egyptian God Yahweh what man corrupted.

Go read Matthew 22:37-40 again:

37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: âLove your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â

Because ANYTHING that contradicts this is a perversion and corruption written by MEN of some nameless God which includes 99.99% of the Bible.

Only a complete, and fucking idiot, believes that our All-Parent commands his/her children to kill one another.

The fact that you can't summarize the Bible in 2 words, Love Unconditionally, makes me question your reading comprehension. You are throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Blaming other people because they were too stupid to understand Spirituality is no excuse for your own ignorance about man-made Religion.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[losfromla]

Hmm. So you don't believe 99.99% of the bible. Ok, we agree.
I'll let all the personal insults slide by, they were unnecessary and you were very excited. I'm feeling extra cool today so I'm letting it slide. I'm sure that's what Jesus would want me to do.
  C

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

It somehow reminds me of Wikipedia, if you click on first link again and again, you end up at philosophy. No matter where the discussion starts from, it ends up at religion :D

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[mjwx]

noting a person's audio history may contain files like LGBT podcasts or Muslim call-to-prayer recordings.

Why do people who, if you asked them, would say that things like the above shouldn't be stigmatized, then go out of their way to stigmatize them with an implication that content in those categories should be subject to some sort of special expectation of privacy?

Because they aren't.

Its servicing more as a warning, as we continue a slide towards fascism, these will be the first on the "first they came for" lists.

Its not that Muslims or LGBTI need special rights for privacy, its that we all need the right to privacy regardless of if you're listening to mass produced pop or prayer recordings. Muslims, etc... are used as examples because they'll be the first to suffer when rights are revoked.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[mysidia]

Some people who are curious about LGBT podcasts are secretive, and that's about what THEY are comfortable with, AND their choices; they may have people in their life who wouldn't understand. So it is a good example of a sensitive subject.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[mysidia]

So, do you want it normalised or stigmatised?

These are not mutually exclusive categories.
First of all, people who are LGBT are NOT normal. They're not the average person,
definitely outliers, statistically speaking. This does not imply there is a stigma.
After all, some of the Best people such as Einstein were extremely abnormal.... far from the Norm.

Some of the people in the LGBT category WANT you to know they are in that category, some of them want ONLY themselves
or specific people to know, they are entitled to their personal confidentiality. The example shows how advertisers can intrude and compromise their personal desires.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[hey!]

It's not a special expectation of privacy; these are just examples of why the blanket expectations of privacy. The same applies to alt-right podcasts, or Christian Identity music.

You might not like these people, but they've got just as much right to privacy as you do, and possibly a lot more at stake.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[TechyImmigrant]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

So it's the killing you object to then, and not the beliefs. Have I got that right? Good, because I agree with you completely. Religious doctrine, the xtian bible for example, is full of dangerous ideas that no sane person would believe enough to actually act on. That doesn't mean the whole religion is bad or it's followers inherently evil. Right?

Heading into Godwin territory, It's he moral equivalent of being a nice Nazi. You appreciate a strong leader and he makes the trains run on time. These things are true, but you are promoting an organization that does great evil by being part of it. Exactly the same thing with most religions.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

No need to be paranoid...my toaster just emailed me that.

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[UnknownSoldier]

Yeah, that is the Dual (or Inverse) of Godwin's Law:

Every discussion, if continued long enough, will end up with Religion.

--
You can take the people out of Politics,
But you can't take the Politics out of people.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's completely because they keep getting pointed out as things we shouldn't want to reveal. Teach all the kids that one of the first things you do when you meet someone is talk about their favorite masturbation habits (well, if you have kids then you know you have to teach them not to do that because kids love to run around naked) and within one generation such talk will be completely normal and have no stigmatization beyond the same as your favorite color.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[HiThere]

To be fair, the Bible doesn't actually say why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. Not in any testable way. It says that the people living in them were evil, without defining what the evil was. Maybe they liked oysters? There is a "traditional" English interpretation, and perhaps it's more widespread, that it involved homosexuality, at least in the case of Sodom, but I've seen no evidence that this is scriptural. ("Everybody knows what sodomy is, but nobody know what gomorrary is". Can't remember who I'm quoting.)

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[HiThere]

If your interpretation is correct, then the number of actual Christians can be counted on the fingers of one hand. You'll probably have three or four spare fingers.

As I figure things, the actual meaning of a religion is revealed in the sum of the acts of the "adherents". And by "adherent" I mean anyone who claims it as their religion OR who uses it as a justification for their actions. The "holy scripture" is only one element, and one without any actual weight except insofar as it affects the actions of the adherents. And the meaning is a weighted average that moves through time, thus current Christianity is weighted down by the acts of the Inquisition and the Crusaders, but the distance in time has weakened the weight that should be given to their actions. So start greasing up your multidimensional factor analysis toolkit.

A problem here is that destructive acts have a much heavier weight than constructive acts. This is necessary because, for example, it's much easier to destroy, say, a statue, than it is to make it in the first place. If you prefer substitute "life" for "statue". Equals may be substituted for equals in any operation. So you could also substitute "civilization".

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[HiThere]

And it's worth remembering that he (Mussolini) didn't actually make the trains run on time. That was propaganda.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody stigmatizes you for having piles but I still don't want people to know I listened to a podcast about toilet problems.

Re: Your headphones are spying on you.

[nystire]

Unfortunately, with Social Justice Warriors that needs to be reversed. If there was no Social Justice Warriors then there would be no oppression. They have long ago gone off the deep end and started being the main cause of modern day oppression.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

So it's the killing you object to then, and not the beliefs. Have I got that right? Good, because I agree with you completely. Religious doctrine, the xtian bible for example, is full of dangerous ideas that no sane person would believe enough to actually act on. That doesn't mean the whole religion is bad or it's followers inherently evil. Right?

Heading into Godwin territory, It's he moral equivalent of being a nice Nazi. You appreciate a strong leader and he makes the trains run on time. These things are true, but you are promoting an organization that does great evil by being part of it. Exactly the same thing with most religions.

Christianity may have at one point in time done great evil, but I can say that I do not believe they do great evil anymore.

At best specific churches do small acts of evil from time to time, just like any human or group of humans.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[UnknownSoldier]

As a mystic I get tired of ignorant man taking pure Spirituality and corrupting it into man-made Religion. I also call out atheists for their arrogance of throwing the baby out with the bath water -- they have ZERO knowledge, by definition you can't have knowledge when you lack belief. If the shoe fits, then pay attention to the shoe size!

Just in case it wasn't clear what the difference between the two is:

Religion: One person telling another what they should do to understand the All Parent.
Spirituality: One person telling another what they could do to understand the All Parent.

> So you don't believe 99.99% of the bible. Ok, we agree.

Incorrect.

It is 100% true. But your thinking is clouded by a _literal_ interpretation. Unless one reads ALL scripture in a 3-fold manner:

1. Literal,
2. Allegorical, and
3. Spiritual

then man is doomed to focus on the absurdities of the "literal letter that killeth." One of the few things Paul the Murderer got right was in Gal 4:24 "Now this is an allegory:" when referring to Sarah and Hagar.

When you read about the parable of the boy who cried wolf, does it matter if the story was not _literally_ true? Of course. The _lesson_ is what is important. The bible is one big parable -- some parts are literally true. Others are made up. And yet other is borrowed. The historical events are completely irrelevant.

It is the very same reason day 2 of the creation story is not called good. There is a much deeper meaning portrayed in the two contradictory creation stories in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

> I'm feeling extra cool today so I'm letting it slide. I'm sure that's what Jesus would want me to do.

That is _exactly_ what you should do. "Turn the other cheek".

Maybe there is hope for you after all. :-)

See, you don't need the Bible at all -- you've already learnt the lesson. Now apply this in the rest of your life and you will be blessed.

Go in peace.

Re:Your headphones are spying on you.

[TechyImmigrant]

Some people's religious beliefs include "I should kill anyone who disagrees with me." Some people act on their beliefs.

So it's the killing you object to then, and not the beliefs. Have I got that right? Good, because I agree with you completely. Religious doctrine, the xtian bible for example, is full of dangerous ideas that no sane person would believe enough to actually act on. That doesn't mean the whole religion is bad or it's followers inherently evil. Right?

Heading into Godwin territory, It's he moral equivalent of being a nice Nazi. You appreciate a strong leader and he makes the trains run on time. These things are true, but you are promoting an organization that does great evil by being part of it. Exactly the same thing with most religions.

Christianity may have at one point in time done great evil, but I can say that I do not believe they do great evil anymore.

At best specific churches do small acts of evil from time to time, just like any human or group of humans.

Then you are both blind to the sectarian violence around the world and you have missed the point entirely.

oh shit

[Anonymous Coward]

i fell asleep while dickslurp.mp4 was on repeat one time
does bose knows what I am into

They didn't do anything illegal

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, ISPs can do it, so why can't they?

Re:They didn't do anything illegal

[geekmux]

I mean, ISPs can do it, so why can't they?

Users of ISPs likely agreed to their monitoring via a EULA they didn't read.

IANAL, but on the surface it appears that Bose fucked up by not even offering up a EULA for no one to read.

Re:They didn't do anything illegal

[Anonymous Coward]

you think people actually read every EULA?

Oh, shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've bought Bose headphones (no, not the wireless: it's pretty improbable they spy on me, for a lack of channel for that).

Remember to add Bose to no-buy list.

HELLO, BOSE: You just went from "I'm a happy customer" to "You're on my no-buy list". Are you glad now?

(Captcha: "decibel". Perhaps my earphones are listening on me, after all?)

Re:Oh, shit.

[scotts13]

Companies are, in fact, not (usually) stupid. Someone calculated the revenue from selling the information against the loss in sales X the chance it will be discovered. The profit said "do it!" I've worked for companies where it cost more to keep existing customers happy than to advertise for new ones. Guess what we did?

Re:Oh, shit.

[Opportunist]

This was for the longest time the approach to security. How high is the damage if our customer data gets lost? How much would it cost to secure it? It costs HOW MUCH? Screw security!

Only when laws were passed that made CEOs personally (!) liable (yes, with their private money) if they can't show that they've taken reasonable steps to secure it, suddenly security became an issue.

And we won't see anything being done in favor of privacy unless corporations feel the govenments' boots on their necks.

Re:Oh, shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem wasn't in the headphones (although theoretically, it could happen). The problem was in the "app" that the fuckwitted user downloaded and installed.

There aren't any situations where it makes sense to use a hardware manufacturer's "app." 100% of the time, you know for sure that it's definitely going to be a scam without any possibility otherwise. That said, the user probably "agreed" to whatever the malware did.

And that fake "agreeing" is why there aren't any situations where it makes sense to use proprietary software. If it's licensed rather than sold under copyright, it's inconcievable that something shady isn't going on.

Re:Oh, shit.

[Gr8Apes]

Companies are, in fact, not (usually) stupid.

I'd disagree - companies are, in fact, very stupid in very many ways. Just remember that the "brains" of a company for all intents and purposes are usually the CEO/COO and related C level folks. Now realize that most of those folks don't know the first thing about data security (for purposes of this particular topic) and only see the marketer numbers about how collecting x will generate y revenue for a minimal cost of 0.01% of generating y, as they determined with a single question during a program meeting. (Marketers generally have 0 grasp of anything regarding IT best practices and real costs) I have had many fun conversations with bosses about why something so simple as adding an age and gender field to an account and displaying that info costs far more than adding, say, a nickname field, especially when working for an entity that deals with PII restrictions.

Re:Oh, shit.

[squiggleslash]

Perhaps we should wait until the story is confirmed before launching the boycott because right now it sounds like utter bullshit.

How, exactly, are these wireless headphones sending this information back to Bose? Do they have a built in GSM modem to send back the data? Wouldn't that be a bit expensive and obvious the moment anyone takes them apart?

Alternatively, do these headphones need some kind of special driver to work? If so, does that mean they only work with certain devices, you can't, for example, use generic Bluetooth or plug some kind of linked transmitter in to an arbitrary MP3 player or TV or sound system? The headphones can only be used with a supported, Internet connected. Android or Apple device, or PC?

Because that seems... a little unlikely. I mean, imagine buying a set of headphones and finding you can only use them with certain devices. That'd piss me off.

The article quite possibly says something else, that it's an optional Bose MP3 player app or something that's sending the data. But the summary is, well, it may be right, in which case the filers of the lawsuit are about to get their ass handed to them, or it's false, in which case... it's false.

Either way, I wouldn't start a boycott yet.

Re: Oh, shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read the fucking article. No this is slashdot, so of course you didn't. The app sends the users data back. The headphones connect to the app and send the info to the app. The app gathers the info and sends it to Bose servers.

Re: Oh, shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it? The legal complaint makes that allegation, but offers no evidence. How did the plaintiff discover the app was sending the information to a marketing company?

Re: Oh, shit.

[squiggleslash]

No, I didn't read the TFA. I read the summary, which I'm saying makes no sense. The summary doesn't mention an app. And even your summary of the article doesn't actually explain the relationship between the wireless headphones and the lawsuit, beyond a vague handwaving "headphones connect to the app" comment that doesn't address any of the issues I raised.

The person here is proposing boycotting Bose on the basis of an allegation that Bose's wireless headphones send data on listening habits to Bose, who then sells the data to third parties. Unless those wireless headphones only work with specific hardware, effectively crippling their use, or they contain a wireless GSM/etc modem, that allegation appears to be technically impossible.

If it's Bose's app that does it, then unless those headphones are designed to work with specific hardware, with the app made effectively mandatory, then the entire summary is wrong and needs to be completely rewritten.

Re:Oh, shit.

[yuriklastalov]

Too bad that in this case, the government has just as much interest in privacy invasion as the corporations do. In fact, the government tends to just get the corps to do their dirty work for them, so I'm not sure where you think this magical governmental salvation is going to come from.

Re: Oh, shit.

[HiThere]

Well, that's the allegation, and it's a pretty believable allegation. There are apps that do all sorts of shady things, all the way up to placing calls to pay-me numbers that the user never authorized...and probably beyond, though I haven't heard of any. And companies usually have someone who will do something shady to increase some stat. Often even something criminal that doesn't even really benefit either them or the company.

But the question is, "How is Bose dealing with this case?". If they just deny it I'm going to want proof, which this case may yield. Or my not. Because of the trial, I really doubt that they'll acknowledge that they did something they shouldn't have.

FWIW, I've put Bose on my "tentative boycott" list. If I hear something convincing I'll take them off. If they brush it under the rug, eventually I'm move them to the "solid Boycott" list, with an "I forget why" reason.
Additionally this has refreshed in my memory a post someone wrote (who? when?) that claimed that Bose audio equipment was no longer top quality. I've never been sure how accurate it was, but now it's going to come to mind whenever I hear their name.

OTOH, this has reconfirmed my desire to avoid apps. Especially those where the source code is not available. (If it is available, I'll want to build it myself from the source code, because who knows that the downloaded version is the same as the one the source code that it purports to be an instance of.)

Re:Oh, shit.

[hcs_$reboot]

Just a funny comment to undo moderation

Re:Oh, shit.

[Opportunist]

Governments don't like other governments to have that kind of information. So what you will at the very least get is some sort of law that forbids international trade of data. And an increased incentive for governments all over the world to point fingers at foreign companies that collect data.

Re:Oh, shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

It would have to come from the voters.

Around here we believe it is a given that people wouldn't want to be spied on, if only they knew it was happening!

That may not be true though, maybe, even if they were fully informed, people would prefer to have their data collected, archived, and used to arrest criminals/show better ads. Seriously, it may be what society wants.

Re: Oh, shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

App is mandatory. These headphones don't pair over standard bluetooth. You open the app, search for "Bose headphones" and then connect to your pair, all from the app.

It is impossible to use these headphones without the app, it is impossible to use these headphones on devices they don't provide an app for.(they also provide a windows and Mac OS equivalent that probably collect even more data)

Wow somebody is suing someone else in America

[Big Hairy Ian]

Wake me when there's a verdict

Re:Wow somebody is suing someone else in America

[Opportunist]

Verdict? Such things settle somehow. Probably the settlement will be that Bose gets a stern look from the judge and the victims get a 5% discount on their next Bose product.

That's the ONLY reason for apps

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand why The Kids (TM) are obsessed with apps. Any time someone tries to get you to use an app where you don't have to, you can be pretty sure it's in order to harvest more data about you.

Captcha: everyday

I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't buy expensive headphones and generally have avoided some things that are privacy invading. But even surfing the web I get some well-timed mailings that make me fucking paranoid as shit. So to that end I have a request of corporate America: My life is not a resource to be commoditized. Stop fucking spying on me you slimy pieces of shit. I will share information with you IF I WANT TO.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

The cost of all of those free sites you visit.

if you had to pay $1 a month to every website you want to visit, would you do it?

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all, Bose products are vastly, incredibly, extremely overpriced! A friend fell for their marketing, buying one of their Wave Radios with a CD player. It cost way over a thousand dollars. We compared it to my computer with a $40 set of speakers with a sub-woofer. The Wave Radio lost big time to my desktop computer system that cost maybe $300 altogether!

Based on other comparisons that I have read over the years, Bose headphones are certainly no better than any other brand, sometimes not as good. In addition, Bluetooth was never meant for high quality stereo audio, it just doesn't have the bandwidth. So Bluetooth headphones are never going to sound as good as wired ones.

Since advertisers will pay for pretty much any customer data these days, everyone who can is collecting data to sell to them! Its time for the constant attempts at spying on customers to stop! The first step to stopping this crap is for people to stop buying things that have an unneeded internet connection. All of these IoT devices are just a thinly veiled attempt to get people to buy crap that can spy on them!! Its bad enough (and very creepy!) that your phone (or any other device) can be tracked to within 50-100 feet whenever it is connected to a Wi-Fi node or hotspot without using its built in GPS!

If you value privacy, which far too many people don't these days, its getting pretty hard to have ANY privacy at all!

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[ColdWetDog]

Not to worry. I still get American Girl adverts after buying one for my niece. Who just graduated college.

I still get Hello Kitty adverts after buying some USB drives as a joke.

Whatever the hell info they have on me, well, good luck with that.

Re: I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of their headphones and portable speakers are better than anything else available. I've tried many of the brands available, and keep doing back to Bose. Their products are expensive, but for me it's worth it. Especially for the in-ear headphones which I can wear comfortable for 10+ hours because of the little silicone earpiece thingy. Many other headphones hurt my ear after about an hour, and have problems with falling out of my ear. If you don't have money to burn then Bose isn't the best choice. If you do have money to burn, well if this privacy thing turns out to be true then I'm not sure I'm cool with Bose anymore.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[HornWumpus]

What's needed is a shim for Android and iPhone. To lie to all apps about basically...everything. When an app asks for permissions, this shim should look the app up and give it 'appropriate' access.

Tell all the apps you are constantly on the shopping streets of Beverly Hills, Venice, Manhattan and Monaco. Watch the 'free shit for rich fuckers that don't need it' roll in. Have it fake up obvious charter flights on gulfstreams...flights between 'executive airports' that don't match any scheduled ones, but travel at jet speed.

Tell the apps that all the most powerful people in DC, Beijing, Moscow, London, Tokyo and your own nation's capital are in your contact list and _calling you_ constantly. You are Rothschilds', Putin's, Trump's, both Clintons, Merkel's, the King of Saudi's and the entire Chinese central committee's BFF. Along with 1000 other names nobody knows: lobbyists, 'high class' madams/pimps/whores, 'very hard drug' dealers, weapon dealers, lawyers, spy agency heads and senior staff, preachers etc etc...the scum attached to power.

My understanding is that the only way to do this is a custom ROM on Android, impossible in apple's ecosystem.

What are the chances of Apple allowing this app, should it be built, into their walled garden?

What could this apps writers charge other app writers for 'special treatment'? Default behavior for say, 'Maps' should be to lie to it about where you are unless the app's interface is visible. What would it be worth to Google to 'fix that'? Evil laugh...we could 'tax' them. What about the NSA? (Jokes on the devs: The spooks would, no doubt, just 'own' their source control server).

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I probably would - but they want WAY more than that. Go to some sites and see what they want for membership / add free / whatever they call it. Ars Technica - $50 per year. Thurrot.com - $42 per year. If these things were $12 a year - sure thing. But my gosh - they sure think their adds are worth a lot. I never click on one and won't ever click on one but apparently they think they are going to make $50 a year on them from me.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[thegarbz]

We're not targeting you.

Rgds, The Dragnet

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[fahrbot-bot]

Not to worry. I still get American Girl adverts after buying one for my niece. Who just graduated college.

I still get Hello Kitty adverts after buying some USB drives as a joke.

Your "nice" and "joke" aside, just a reminder that /. is a safe space and you're free to be yourself w/o any judgment. :-)

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say I have a legit interest in a service. So I look them up and investigate. I decide they aren't for me. But suddenly I am carpet bombed via snail mail of MOAR OFFERS for the service I decided I didn't need. Because that's EXACTLY what happened when I went to SlingTV's site to look at the offering.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[JohnFen]

The cost of all of those free sites you visit.

if you had to pay $1 a month to every website you want to visit, would you do it?

Yes.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[JohnFen]

My solution for Android requires root, but it is effective: I run a firewall that automatically blocks all traffic to and from all apps. Then I make exceptions for specific apps that both actually require internet access to do the tasks I want and that I am comfortable with. There are very, very few of those.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[HornWumpus]

Feeding them garbage is better than just cutting them off. It has to be turnkey.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[fluffernutter]

What other audio maker has a storefront that I can walk into? Where I can buy replacement pieces cheaply, and that will let me trade up for my next set of headphones? I understand that they are not the best sounding headphones out there, but the treble is clear and the bass is deep without clipping, and they are comfortable as hell. I walked into the store and tried them on and I was sold.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid argument. Most sites are trying to sell me something. So no, I wold not pay $1 for each website. They should in fact be paying me to come to their site to buy their shit.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

For Android there is the excellent XPrivacy. It allows you to allow or deny permissions with as much granularity as you like. More importantly it allows you to feed garbage (either random or specifically set by you) when disabling a permission breaks an app. It requires root and the Xposed framework.

I'm not aware of anything similar for Apple devices.

It would also be very nice to have something similar for web browsers. There are some basic solutions but ideally I'd like a complete shim for all JavaScript functions that can impact privacy or profile users. Basically XPrivacy for browsers. uMatrix and NoScript are nice for selectively enabling JavaScript on a site-by-site basis, but I'd like to have more granular control to be able to deny access or feed bogus data to sensitive JavaScript functions/variables.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

So to that end I have a request of corporate America

Well said...except that we all need to be demanding this of corporate America, and of our government to force them to compliance. The time for 'requests' has long since passed.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporate data is their intellectual property, protected with the power of copyright law, yet they can freely copy our data and sell it. How convenient for them.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[erapert]

Do you use Linux?

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll buy it. Hell, I will even donate to a kickstarter to help fund development of any portion of this you think you can make work. Show progress and I will donate more.

Worth every penny to fuck with the statistics...

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[Beezlebub33]

I can't help with the phone. But, in terms of internet browsing, I recommend TrackMeNot (https://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/) and AdNauseum (https://adnauseam.io/). Google actually banned AdNauseum on Chrome, which IMHO means that it probably works. Just make sure that you have unlimited data.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[WallyL]

Your "nice" and "joke" aside, just a reminder that /. is a safe space and you're free to be yourself w/o any judgment. :-)

Unless you're one of them Mac users! Then you can go forget yourself.

Re:I am so sick of this shit

[martinfb]

Agreed.

So, then GET ACTIVE, you lazy Anonymous Coward!

sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh. I know this is Slashdot, but come on!

Bose Headphones Secretly Collected User Data, Lawsuit Reveals

No.

The lawsuit alleges (innocent until proven guilty) that the Bose completely optional app - not the headphones - collects too much data and shares it with 3rd parties without the user's consent.

Which is bad if true, but it is a far cry from the "your headphones are spying on you" that the headline claims.

Unsurprisingly, Slashdot probably picked this up to take yet another a jab at Apple.

Now, queue ignorant comments about how bluetooth headphones are tools of the devil, Apple is evil, etc.

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

queue ignorant comments

cue ignorant comments

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he expects the comments to get in a line?

Re:sigh

[Phusion]

Optional app or not, I doubt that even the EULA mentions this collection of data, or anywhere easily read when you install the app. Even if there somehow is no wrongdoing, why are you defending this giant company that is more than likely harvesting user data (and who knows, organs from small children?) to be sold to marketing ghouls?

Re: sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to the App Store and read the agreement, and it mentioned plenty of things they did collect, none of which I personally would have a problem with, but could not find anything saying that what media you listen to would be transmitted.

Re:sigh

[HornWumpus]

Bose is only a tiny increment past what Google and Apple also do.

Granting they, at least, have the excuse of serving up the content. All can make somewhat plausible claims of 'enhanced user experience', e.g. pandora like 'suggestions'.

Re: sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Apple always get thrown in this spying situation. I need some citations because I've used Apple for atleast 15 years and I've never found any evidence of them spying on me or slurping up my browsing data.

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think the app is used with the headphones?

Pedantic much?

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawsuits have no relation to "innocent until proven guilty," because lawsuits are not criminal complaints. Lawsuits make allegations. Those allegations are either upheld or not. No one is proven either innocent or guilty. Also, the burden of proof is much less than for a criminal compaint.

Re:sigh

[mikestew]

My reading of those who actually own these headphones says the app is not optional. There are settings, for instance, that can only be changed via the app. At best one could say the app is optional if you don't mind hobbling your expensive headphones.

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

...The lawsuit alleges (innocent until proven guilty) that the Bose completely optional app - not the headphones - collects too much data and shares it with 3rd parties without the user's consent.

Which is bad if true, but it is a far cry from the "your headphones are spying on you" that the headline claims.

Speaking of ignorant comments, enough with the stupidity of trying to re-define what is spying here. They created an app that specifically works with the headphones that records and collects user activity without their knowledge or consent. It's not doing that shit without the headphones, so the headline is more accurate than you assume.

The "completely optional" status has little relevance as well. Chances are most consumers downloaded the app, as the marketing would practically demand.

Re: sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Âque?

Re:sigh

[locotx]

Correct as in "I can't respond fairly to each comment unless you all get in line and i can address each one individually" That's how I read it.

Re:sigh

[Drathos]

The app might be used with the headphones, but the headphones don't need the app to operate. You can use the headphones perfectly fine without it, which would mean no data collection.

Re: sigh

[Zero__Kelvin]

Cue the queuing ...

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

child slave labor is not evil at all :), especially when my little precious' work 16 hour days and enrich my stock more!

America fuck yeah!

Re: sigh

[HornWumpus]

iTunes.

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

They should have gotten the AT&T exemption. It would have worked if the carriers had supplied the app? "Oh, we'll just get a law passed saying it was legal - Everything's Kosher, now!"

Re:sigh

[Agripa]

Dude, you are harshing my outrage.

Re:sigh

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha it's time to close the arm chair legal advice centre, this is a Civil case therefore the burden of proof is on the defendant.

Ka-CHING!

[Frosty Piss]

Sure, this is not a good thing. But also remember, lawsuits like these are not filed by users who feel they were wronged, they are filed by lawyers looking for a good payout, it's a business plan. You, the user, will get a $25 coupon on an additional Bose purchase.

Re:Ka-CHING!

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, Bose will not be getting even a first purchase from me thanks to this being brought to my attention.

Re:Ka-CHING!

[Anonymous Coward]

Usually, you are lucky to get a $25 coupon. More likely, a $2.50 check and free useless software. However, I recently got a $70 check on one of these, so not always useless to the consumer.

Re:Ka-CHING!

[Frosty Piss]

You're a cheap bastard that never would have bought Bose anyway.

This should be interesting...

[xession]

This should be interesting to watch play out. I honestly don't see this making it to trial and if it does, it'll be a speedy victory for Bose. The PTB absolutely do not want any sort of precendent set that says they are violating wire tapping and other privacy laws with these sort of everyday increasing intrusions from "smart devices".

However, one can be hopeful that a hard nosed judge is selected that truly sees this growing trend as the problem it has become and gives Bose the ban hammer. Such a ruling would have interesting implications for all sorts of devices. Ah well, shit in one hand, hope in the other I guess.

Re:This should be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Prior case law:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District

"It also accused officials of spying through "indiscriminate use of an ability to remotely activate the webcams incorporated into each laptop", and thereby violating the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution (right to privacy) and a number of electronic communications laws: the U.S. Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA; intentional intercepts of electronic communications), the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA; intentional access of a computer that exceeds authorization to obtain information), the Stored Communications Act (SCA; unauthorized acquisition of stored electronic communications), and the Pennsylvania Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Act (PWESA; intentional intercept of electronic communications)."

In October 2010, the school district agreed to pay $610,000 to settle the Robbins and Hasan lawsuits against it

You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

Why would anyone spend $350 on a pair of headphones? I typically spend $10 to $20 for headphones.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone spend $10 to $20 on a pair of headphones? I typically spend $1 to $2 for headphones.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

I typically spend $1 to $2 for headphones.

Those usually fall apart pretty quickly. The $10 to $20 headphones give me the durability I need for the year or two that they are usable.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone spend $1 to $2 on a pair of headphones? I read sheet music and play it back in my head.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[bmk67]

Why would anyone pay $1 or $2 for headphones? I typically rip them off.

Re: You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone spend $1 to $2 on a pair of headphones? I typically spend $350 for headphones.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[geekmux]

I typically spend $1 to $2 for headphones.

Those usually fall apart pretty quickly. The $10 to $20 headphones give me the durability I need for the year or two that they are usable.

My Sennheisers are over 15 years old now. Paid $150 and they still sound great.

Replacing cheaper hardware every year or two tends to add up, which confirms your initial statement; you get what you pay for.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[cayenne8]

I've had an older equivalent of these Shure earphones for about a decade and I love them.

I think they were about $499 when I got mine, so, prices are fairly consistent.

They give about as good a sound as you can get from a mp3 player while riding a bike or in the gym.

I really like them, but won't be as easy to use on next phone unless Apple stops being "brave" and reconsiders the jack removal from new products.

I think in some areas, you *do* get what you pay for...and I like to get as good a sound reproduction as I can when out and about exercising, and the way they seal your ears off, makes them great for flying on a plane and shutting out the noise (plane, babies, etc).

My dog chewed up a pair I first had, and I found that the company was great and for $100 would replace them with a new pair which worked out great for me.

Good thing God makes puppies cute.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

Replacing cheaper hardware every year or two tends to add up, which confirms your initial statement; you get what you pay for.

I'm not going to cry over a pair of $10 to $20 headphones when they self-destruct from day-to-day use. I'll toss them out, pull another one out from the storage closet, and order some more if I need to. Why spend more money on something you're going have to replace anyway?

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Quirkz]

Hah. I'd give you mod points if I had 'em.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Quirkz]

Jeez. I felt bad enough when my dog chewed my "expensive" headphones that cost me maybe $40. I would be ticked beyond any puppy cuteness level at replacing a $500 pair, or even $100.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

I would be ticked beyond any puppy cuteness level at replacing a $500 pair, or even $100.

Or be the unfortunate father at the Apple Genius Bar after your toddler dumps juice into your high-end MacBook Pro, find out that Apple Care doesn't cover that kind of damage, and a replacement logic board costs almost as much as a brand new laptop. I overheard that sob tale while getting my vintage 2006 Black MacBook repaired in 2012.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[geekmux]

Replacing cheaper hardware every year or two tends to add up, which confirms your initial statement; you get what you pay for.

I'm not going to cry over a pair of $10 to $20 headphones when they self-destruct from day-to-day use. I'll toss them out, pull another one out from the storage closet, and order some more if I need to. Why spend more money on something you're going have to replace anyway?

My point was more centered around the fact that headphones are not a product you have to replace often if you get a quality pair, unless you tend to beat the shit out of them during day-to-day usage. Mine sit on my desk and I use them quite often, which is why sound quality and comfort are key factors for me. To each their own. Cheers.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Back 10 years, a replace LCD for a laptop cost about the same as the laptop itself. All the other second-hand replacement components added up to $500. There was actually a trade-in for broken screens as a discount for a new one.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps your next phone should not be from Apple since you have expensive, high-end, good sounding headphones that would work easier on mostly any other phone?

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

[...] unless you tend to beat the shit out of them during day-to-day usage.

My headphone sit on my desktop. If they end up on the floor, I'm more likely to step on them or roll over them with the chair. One time I found the cable sliced into two. Not sure how that happened. Self-destruct items — keyboards, mice and headphones — are disposable and cheap to replace.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

My dog chewed up a pair I first had, and I found that the company was great and for $100 would replace them with a new pair which worked out great for me.

Sometimes good warranty service can offset a higher price. I buy computer parts from Other World Computing. A bit more expensive than what I can get from Hong Kong but OWC-branded parts have a three-year warranty. I recently sent back a 2.5"-to-3.5" bracket because the SATA cable snapped off the connector. I got a brand new part and the broken connector removed from the SATA cable.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[fluffernutter]

Have you even HEARD a $350 pair of headphones? You own a phone without an audio port don't you? Admit it.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

Have you even HEARD a $350 pair of headphones?

A $350 pair of headphones, no. A $1,100 pair of headphones (Beyerdynamic T1), yes. Sounds nice but overpriced for my modest lifestyle. I have a friend who makes less money than me who is saving up for a pair.

You own a phone without an audio port don't you? Admit it.

I have a iPhone 6S with audio jack. But I only use headphones with my PC.

Re: You get what you pay for...

[Zero__Kelvin]

Good question. Why ARE you spending more money than you need to when you could have just bought a decent pair the first time?

Re:You get what you pay for...

[fluffernutter]

It's interesting that you bring up modest lifestyle. I have one as well, but I went to these headphones because of it. I grew tired of replacing $20 pairs that would break on me, and it became apparent that buying a quality pair that would last me at least five years would be the way to both save money and enjoy music. It was win, win for me. As far as I know they are also the only company that will allow you to replace them years down the road and get a discount on your new pair.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

It's interesting that you bring up modest lifestyle.

I have a high-frequency hearing loss in one ear. The difference between a $20 headphones and $1100 headphones is $1080.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

It is the same people who install a application for their headphones. Perhaps they would be interested on buying a certain bridge?

Re: You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

Why ARE you spending more money than you need to when you could have just bought a decent pair the first time?

Because headphones, keyboards and mice are items that self-destruct after a year or two of daily use. It's easier to keep spares in the closet and replace as needed.

Re: You get what you pay for...

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Because $20 headphones, keyboards and mice are items that self-destruct after a year or two of daily use. "

FTFY

Re:You get what you pay for...

[SoCalChris]

Most people don't buy Bose headphones for their awesome sound quality. Most people buy them because they have reasonable sound quality, with awesome noise cancelling ability.

I have a call every morning with my team in India. Because of time zones, that call is every morning while I'm on the train. I can't hear anything with regular headphones, and you wind up having the volume turned all the way up trying to drown out the ambient noise. With my Bose ones, I can keep the volume relatively low, and hear the conversation extremely well.

Plus, when I'm not on a call, being able to put on some quiet music and not having to hear the sounds of the subway, the train, the guy on the train listening to music on his cell phone without headphones, stop announcements etc is great. That alone is worth the cost of the headphones to me.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why would anyone spend $350 on anything from Bose?" FTFY.
No wait, "Why would anyone buy anything from Bose?" FTFMe

Seriously though, $350 gets you some nice studio monitors or the like, brand new, with a decent warranty, and compatibility with cell phones using the included adapter. I'm sitting right next to some old Koss Pro/4X headphones right now.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

no, because I won't pay $350 for a set of headphones.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Scoldog]

Lord Vetinari, is that you?

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Quirkz]

I lost a nearly-new Acer Aspire One to projectile vomit from a kiddo. Even worse, I spent a bunch of time and cash on components thinking if I just replaced the keyboard or the ram, it might be okay, but it was never right again.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you can't get headphones with good noise cancelling at that price and being able to blot out external noise without destroying your ears is worth it.
I have gone for the cabled though. Much cheaper and no latency troubles.

Re: You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

I type this from a 30 year old cherry g80. If you don't care about having windows keys it still works better than any brand new cheap keyboard.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Geeky]

I don't know about you, but I can't stand that music with rocks in.

Re: You get what you pay for...

[__aaclcg7560]

I type this from a 30 year old cherry g80. If you don't care about having windows keys it still works better than any brand new cheap keyboard.

I wished I kept my IBM AT keyboard from way back when. It was a solid keyboard. A few years ago I tossed out the AT-to-PS2 adapter that I had for it.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[K10W]

Why would anyone spend $350 on a pair of headphones? I typically spend $10 to $20 for headphones.

if you have perfect pitch and notice a lot of stuff most don't and it bothers you it is worth it. It is more than just psychological, some folks have much higher density mapping in certain areas of the brain and will be oversensitive compared to average on such things. They are a very small portion of the market though and many work in industry fields where they can get the gear paid for via work. I do notice such things myself but find many who tell me they can tell such differences can't and it is more more money = better which is myth. Bose are shite. You don't get what you pay for, you get NO MORE than what you pay for, in bose case you pay very high price for low value headphone.

Just because you don't notice the difference doesn't mean no-one else will, conversely many who say they can often just think that but cannot as pychology plays a part it just isn't the only factor in every case. Same reason pro musician may spend a LOT for say a Dominique Peccatte violin where average person cannot tell the difference between a student level generic one and that. The difference exists just most wont notice it, and some buy it because they know it is chosen by those who do hear such differences.

Re:You get what you pay for...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone spend $1 to $2 on a pair of headphones? I read sheet music and play it back in my head.

But what do i do if none of the voices in my head can sing?

No highs, no lows? Must be Bose.

[Anonymous Coward]

Bose - the triumph of marketing over substance.

Re:No highs, no lows? Must be Bose.

[DontBeAMoran]

But still kings of active noise-cancelling headphones.

Bad, but not as horrible as one would think.

[Old97]

In the article it says you can use the headphones without the app. Bose "encourages" customers to download and use the app with the headphones. That should give it away. Why do you think they want you to use their app? You can adjust the app settings - presumably what it can and cannot do. It seems what Bose did wrong was not be clear up front as to what the default result of using the app would be. That's not quite as bad as your smart TV spying on you if you connect it to your internet connected LAN.

I'm going to recheck my microwave now. I wonder if I should down this GE microwave app.

Re:Bad, but not as horrible as one would think.

[Rick Schumann]

You answered my question before I even asked it: 'Why do you need an App to use wireless headphones?' You don't. You shouldn't ever, either.
How fucked-up is this world, where you can't even get wireless headphones without the gods-be-damned manufacturer invading your privacy and selling your personally-identifiable information for profit?

Re:Bad, but not as horrible as one would think.

[thegarbz]

TIL Bose has an app to go with headphones. Why is anyone's guess.

Re:Bad, but not as horrible as one would think.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure at this point that we'd need to guess why.

Re:Bad, but not as horrible as one would think.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mainly for firmware update I believe. I have these headphones ( a gift ) , but have never bothered using the app.

No highs, no lows

[Anonymous Coward]

to Bose your information goes!

haha

Privacy Legislation

[U8MyData]

Anyone want to start a conversation regarding new privacy legislation where consumer electronics come into play? First, Comey saying there is no such thing as privacy any more, paraphrasing of course. Second, your browsing history up for grabs to the highest bidder. Third, this goes on and on. EULA is the devil in all details and should be abolished. When do citizens get to realize the bill of rights: life, liberty and the pursuit of what? Submission?

Re:Privacy Legislation

[Bite The Pillow]

I'm more concerned that at some point, the defense will be "after all of the identity theft, news about hacking, and stories like this one, you just should have expected this". And that defense might just win, without a specific law. A clear, well written one. Which seems unlikely under Profit First TrumpTato.

Re:Privacy Legislation

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know about you but I was hoping for more than the pursuit of happiness.

I'd rather be the dog than gets the rabbit than the greyhound on the track. Nice that the US constitution guarantees the track. I don't think the drafters were on our side.

Bose got caught

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

I am sure other companies do it.

Why wouldn't cable set top boxes and roku like media players not collect such data? The incentives are enormous. All they need some legal fig leaf. Credit card companies have been consolidating spending habits. Target famously detected the pregnancy of a girl unbeknownst to her parents.

Stsarting to agree with those...

[evolutionary]

...living in a faraday cage.Those fellows are no longer considered paranoid, but farseeing. It seems if it has a wireless connection (known or unknown), which is virtually anything electronic these days, you need to wear a tin foil hat to use your headphones privately.

Re:Stsarting to agree with those...

[Anonymous Coward]

Even in the days of MS-DOS PC's, IT departments loved to have remote administration capability for PC's, so they could reconfigure someone's system setup remotely from the help desk. That allowed screen cloning, remote mouse and keyboard input.

Windows 10 enables "remote administration" by default, and all administrators accounts are permitted to login. Web browsers enable Chromecasting and streaming of the screens contents by default. A smartphone can stream the screen contents to a TV simply through the use of a USB-to-HDMI cable adapter.

If you enable security logs on your firewall/wifi-router, you would see an endless stream of random login attempts just through the existence of malware and botnets trying to expand their network.

Re:Stsarting to agree with those...

[DontBeAMoran]

This movie seemed far-fetched when it came out in 1998. We're not even two decades later and it's now the accepted norm.

I'm afraid to think about how things will be in 2037.

Everything is spying on you

[Anonymous Coward]

If they can get their hands on the data, they will. Zero surprise.

Bad Headline

[silverkniveshotmail.]

The headphones aren't collecting any data. The App is, it's just another app selling your information. That's what apps are for!

Re:Bad Headline

[bmk67]

In before Apps!

Re:Bad Headline

[stealth_finger]

Something something luddite apps

Re:Bad Headline

[geekmux]

The headphones aren't collecting any data. The App is, it's just another app selling your information. That's what apps are for!

Is the app collecting and selling your information without the headphones?

If not, then you're splitting cunt hairs over this, and the headline is more accurate than you assume.

In Soviet Russia...

[DogDude]

... the headphones listen to you!

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[DontBeAMoran]

Actually my headphones are Bose QC25, so...

In Soviet Russia, my headphones listen to YOU! (as in, not me but everyone around me).

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[Tablizer]

And bow-ties really are cameras

Unicorn spotting

[thunderclees]

It will be interesting to see if any execs go to jail or will it be a banker like settlement where Bose pays a fine and admits no guilt.

Poison the data well

[Opportunist]

You want data? You shall receive! It's about time we start writing apps that supply data to those data hungry collectors. All kinds of data. You want to know what web pages I visit? Fire up a script that visits all of them. You want to know what YouTube videos I watch? Fire up a script that opens a load of them in the background while I watch the one I actually want to watch. You want to know what ... you get the idea.

There is one thing that's worse for someone trying to sell data than having no data: Having worthless data where he can't tell what's genuine and what's trash. As soon as organizations wanting to buy that data realize that they're buying worthless junk, the whole shit ends pretty fucking quickly. Data is only valuable if you have someone who wants it. And nobody wants to spend money on incorrect data.

Re:Poison the data well

[DontBeAMoran]

Name: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya.
Mother: unknown
Father: You killed my father. Prepare to die. Montoya
Date of birth: around the 14th–17th century
Age: 493
Location: Five dollars per week, late fees of ten dollars per day.
Occupation: Finding the six-fingered man who killed his father.
Email: hellomynameisinigomontoyayoukilledmyfatherpreparetodie@gmail.com

Re:Poison the data well

[gnick]

You want to know what web pages I visit? Fire up a script that visits all of them.

You're only a couple of steps away from inventing tor.

Re:Poison the data well

[Anonymous Coward]

https://slifty.github.io/internet_noise/index.html
Make some noise app. Not perfect, but opens random web pages in the background in your browser. Saw a link to it in protest to the internet history privacy being trashed.

Re:Poison the data well

[Opportunist]

Tor tries the opposite. That doesn't really poison the data pool because it's like encrypting what you deem secret while still giving away your "benign" surfing habits. That still provides data to them.

The goal is to make them realize there is no money in data because it's most likely bogus. Only then there is no incentive to spy on us anymore.

have fun

[Neuronwelder]

start surfing for things you like to watch and stay there. At least you will have something nice to look at when you are reading.

what works

[Anonymous Coward]

An historian observes that shooting down a few BOSE exes would quickly change company behavior. History plays a truthful, but hard mistress vis' "the method". And NO --- we do not need BOSE product at all if audio-rape is a necessary part of their business model. Saved-a-penny and did just fine listening in-the-60s! Pussy-trained sheeple take lots too much shit from post-modern biz-Lazis ... time to top! Same historian observes when "the method" works on BOSE, some bright bulb will transpose it to Wall Street brokers & quants .... hehehe ...

They are the...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Dyson of audio.

Re: They are the...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was given a Dyson vacuum as a wedding gift. I'd probably have never bought one myself because of the price, but it is the best vacuum I've ever used. Sort of like Cutco knives I guess, got some as a gift, probably not worth buying, but damn good knives.

No "Terms of Use" or "User Agreement"?

[moeinvt]

Was the company really so naive as to not include verbiage granting them permission to do this in the "User Agreement" or "Terms of Use" that users are required to accept prior to installing the app?

Most cell phone apps require you to agree to forfeit your privacy for the privilege of using the app? Many of the agreements I've seen clearly specify that they will access just about everything on your phone, including the camera and microphone, to gather data about you.

BOSE = terribly privacy policy

[linuxwrangler]

My wife bought a Wave IV Soundtouch with a 30-day return policy - the only good policy they have and the one we exercised.

Want to set the thing up and use the features you paid for like Internet radio? You have to use the app. The first thing the app requires to even start setup is access to your location. WTF? Then there is their so-called "privacy" policy (which is currently so private that they have broken links on their site so you can't even find it now) that allows them to track your listening (which could even include AM, FM, CD, etc), combine it with other info and sell or use it for marketing purposes.

In the words of my sound engineer friend: BOSE stands for Bring Other Sound Equipment.

Re:BOSE = terribly privacy policy

[commodoresloat]

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you BOSE fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig with my QuietComfort 35 wireless loaded with Megadeth for about 20 minutes now while I attempt to listen to a 17 Meg mp3 from one directory on the ipod. 20 minutes. At home, with my Pioneer HDJ2000 listening to Radiohead, which by all standards should be a lot slower than Megadeth, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this jam session, Soundcloud will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Facebook is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various headphones, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen headphones that run faster than the songs playing on them, despite counting double when you listen to mashups since you are getting two songs at once. My Sony Walkman with a Chromium Dioxide cassette plays Megadeth faster than these headphones. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the BOSE headphones are superior interfaces.

BOSE addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use QuietComfort over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Re:BOSE = terribly privacy policy

[Anonymous Coward]

if it is fanatics on internet being utter fanboys, you can bet it's some filthy assholes trying to lure everyone into another spytrap again.

But...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is evil.

Bob Heil

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you dummies do business with BOSS? That stuff is overpriced garbage. Go check out Bob Heil.you won't find IoT garbage by these IYI 's over at BoSS.

But do me a favor if you buy a nice Microphone there, do not come back and tell me it's spying on you.

Re:Bob Heil

[fluffernutter]

I bought Bose because they were in stores I could walk into and try them. I understand that they are not the *best* sounding headphones, but I could try them on and they were very comfortable. Also they explained to me how I could buy replacement silicone pieces (I lost them all the time), and how I could get a reduced rate on my next set of headphones as a trade-in any time. They have been with me for a great many years now. Currently I am looking at getting a Klipsche but I have no idea where I can go to try them. Maybe if I were in a big city there would be a place but I live in the other 80% of the country.

So I guess to put it simply, the answer is customer service and honest sales techniques.

Re:Bob Heil

[fluffernutter]

Crap, I read Bose.

Re:Bob Heil

[Anonymous Coward]

"headphones" "replacement silicone pieces"
Did you mean headphones or earphones?

Re:Bob Heil

[fluffernutter]

I have a pair of around ear headphones and ear buds. The ear buds I bought because I knew a sales person for an electronics shop that was basically able to sell anything 'at cost' to friends and family and they were half price.

What evidence?

[Chelloveck]

I read the article and complaint. Lots of allegations of wrong-doing, but I don't see a shred of evidence presented anywhere. Maybe the legal complaint is the wrong place for a technical discussion, but I'd like to see some sort of evidence of the app sending data back to the mothership. Anyone know where to find a good technical analysis?

Re:What evidence?

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG, another Slashdotter that actually read the complaint! I thought I was the only one. It's a pretty weak case, and, as you noticed, its long on allegations with no evidence to support them. Of course, the Scribd document is just a copy of the complaint and the actual court filing might have attachments that prove network connections to the marketing company the titles of music and audio filenames were sent to. At the very least, I would think the plaintiff would have to include a copy of the apps license agreement showing no mention of the data collection. From the complaint, its not clear that the plaintiff even acknowledges acceptance of the EULA which I think you'd have to do if you were going to run the app. Plus, the plaintiff did not show that he has suffered any actual damages as a result of his music selections being transmitted to a marketing company, just that he theoretically could if &lt.

As it stands now, I don't think this lawsuit has a chance of even making to trial. If Bose didn't put a data collection clause in the EULA, then that might be a FTC worthy violation and/or Illinois consumer protection violation. It doesn't come close to be a violation of wiretap laws though.

The app is required to use all the features

[Anonymous Coward]

For everyone saying "You don't have to download the app". If you want to use all of the features of the headset, like adjusting the balance, etc. you have to use the app. I'm not sure about Bose but some of the higher end headphones won't let you upgrade the firmware over USB either, you have to use the app.

I'm allowing for hyperbole but if this turns out to be true I hope the judge/jury kicks Bose straight in the corporate nuts, hard and repeatedly.

Re:The app is required to use all the features

[JohnFen]

How can a pair of headphones prevent me from using my audio player to adjust the balance?

Headphone Jack

[fluffernutter]

This is why a headphone jack is important. Analog connections are better for users.

Re:Headphone Jack

[fluffernutter]

And apparently *this* issue is from an optional app, but how long before there is a bluetooth device that installs something? Or requires you to install something in order to use it?

I always thought those Bose NC cans cost too much

[bdwoolman]

As an experiment I bought a pair of Noisehush for fifty bucks on sale. I mainly use them on flights and -- surprise -- they really make a difference. Probably not as effective as the Bose dampers for sure... But they kill the jet noise and cabin chatter and let me get immersed in my content. They are a little cheaply made IMHO and required a minor hack to the keep battery cover in place. They use AAA batteries. I keep spares in the case. They last 120 hours. I don't know.... A quick battery swap vs a recharge? Anyway. Not a problem. Seeing this article I get the warm glow of schadenfreude because I always envied people their pricey Bose jobs. I imagined them in 350 bucks worth of private solitude. Not any more. Not. Any. More. Bose Bitchez.

Re:I always thought those Bose NC cans cost too mu

[fluffernutter]

I've read a lot of reviews and they all say Bose has the best noise reduction hands down. I wouldn't call myself a Bose crusader, they just happen to be my best headphones to date.

User, educate yourself.

[sh00z]

Anyone who downloaded the app, but failed to look for a Privacy Policy stating explicitly how the metadata would be treated has nobody but themselves to blame. I recently attended a professional conference where one of the sponsors offered an app that would automatically collect virtual business cards and brochures from the booths where you scanned a QR code. No Privacy Policy, so I deleted it immediately. I visited the sponsor with a "WTF?" and they acted like it was unreasonable for me to want to know what they planned to do with the list of vendors I visited.

Re: User, educate yourself.

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone using a mobile phone (any brand) is screwed.

BOSE really screwed the pooch...

[Anonymous Coward]

Screwed the pooch, FUBAR, [other old-timer sayings].

Speaking of old-timers - that is who I considered the brand for: older ladies and gents.

I went to their website to try and leave some constructive criticism about how they're just "doing too much, man", but I am trying to be redirected to another website 'cause I'm coming through VPN, and their forum CAPTCHA and registration ofcourse doesn't like me, etc.

So, now as far as they are concerned, my business towards them is the "blaspheme to others, and silently ignore" treatment. If this is true, they have given me the last few nails in their coffin. In my other hand I've the hammer. I don't really doubt it's true considering their sad marketing campaigns in the past.

Bose (kinda) came back from the tawdry late-night informercial world with their portable wireless speakers. I've even come close to buying one if it weren't for the price being more for the on-the-go skateboarding/extreme-sportsing old-timers who need to be separated from their easy pensioner's money. Or probably more likely, the lonely old-timers who want to go on a nice spring-time picnic with a bottle of white wine, some music, and a hooker.

So now, friends and family who come to me for advice on tech stuff, will hear my blasphemous (gasp) opinion of BOSE, and BOSE will still not get my money. I'm not a tight-wad person who doesn't spend money on quality.

I've spent more dough on a single folding knife than some of their $300+ headphones. I have $1k+ watches. I even have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany On many an occasion I am a grandpa trapped in a young body, but butt-fuck BOSE

The funny (and sad) thing is I am not really not a spring chicken, and yet I still feel like BOSE is for over-the-hill old people who have more money than sense. I'm almost old enough to fart loudly and ask, "honey, where's my aspercreme?"

Catatonic

I have no doubt the Bose are better

[bdwoolman]

For 350 clams they better be. Not saying my cheaper gear was better or even as good. Just saying that for one sixth of the price I get a serviceable device which is by far better than the phones issued on the plane. By far. Good enough to really improve my journey. Oh, and they are too cheap to come with their own app. Another plus IMHO.

Re:I have no doubt the Bose are better

[fluffernutter]

350 is for the top of the line noise reduction headphones. Every review I have read about those headphones have put them clearly top of the market for noise reduction technology. I don't have those headphones, mine are the base level ones that are more around $120. I have the around the ear ones and my buds I had an opportunity to buy at half price. Both of them are the most comfortable headphones I have ever used. The buds I fall asleep with in my ear and forget they are in when I wake up in the morning.

It's the app

[Anonymous Coward]

As often these days, the devil is in the app.

> How, exactly, are these wireless headphones sending this information back to Bose?

So I went to TFA (I know, I know. But I'm anonymous anyway :)

TFA is one of those Javascript infested cesspools which turn up blank in my browser (luckily, I'd say), itself doing all those shady things we like to love (at least all Google bugs, but seeing the Javascript... oh well).

Anyway, the text is there, buried in the Javascript. Excerpts:

"The audio maker Bose, whose wireless headphones sell for up to $350, uses an app to collect the listening habits of its customers and provide that information to third partiesâ"all without the knowledge and permission of the users [...]

While Bose customers can use the headphones without the smartphone app (simply connect using Bluetooth settings or
the audio cable), the app provides more options to use the deviceâ"and opened the door for data collecting."

This is so typical New Economy that it's credible.

Bose'll stay in my no-buy list until they either convince me that they didn't it or they apologize and promise not to do it ever more.

Re:It's the app

[Anonymous Coward]

"The audio maker Bose, whose wireless headphones sell for up to $350, uses an app to collect the listening habits of its customers and provide that information to third partiesâ"all without the knowledge and permission of the users [...]

That's what the legal complaint alleged, but there's no evidence supporting that allegation within the document linked to in TFA. So basically there's nothing else to go on except the word of the guy who filed the lawsuit against Bose. Maybe he'll file an amended complaint with that evidence later on, but right now it's all just an unsupported allegation.

Re:It's the app

[Beezlebub33]

While I appreciate that you are giving Bose the benefit of the doubt, I don't think they deserve it. Based on my experiences with other companies, and their bone-headed decisions, I would err on the side of caution and assume that Bose is probably doing just that.

It doesn't even need to be planned or nefarious. It's simply too easy to go from creating an app, to adding something in there that provides debugging information, to deciding that the debugging information is useful, to sharing that information with related companies.

Re:I always thought those Bose NC cans cost too mu

[boudie2]

Generally speaking, its been my experience that the company who buys the most ad space has the best noise reduction. And bullshit makes the world go around.

Re:I always thought those Bose NC cans cost too mu

[fluffernutter]

So you think Bose can by more ad space than Sony, Apple, Samsung, and Panasonic? Interesting. Not just more of the ad space but ALL the ad space to shut out every other competitor on every review site for the last 5 years or so. Interesting.

but the more important question here is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes , the more important question is : WHO BUYS that collected info ??

All we hear about is some who get caught collecting and selling, but i want to know who buys said info.

If there was no market , there would be no use for collecting and selling.

Time to go after ALL the criminals, not just the ones who happen to land into the light.

Article about spying is also spying with trackers

[Anonymous Coward]

According to Ghostery on my Firefox browser, this Fortune.com article is also serving up 15 different trackers.

Re:I always thought those Bose NC cans cost too mu

[boudie2]

Yes, it is interesting, isn't it? I suppose you believe the reviews on amazon as well?

Good old Corporate America

[siamesevodka]

If I were to use Key loggers etc to spy on people on the internet, they would lock me up. Tell me the difference between that and corporations tracking your every move every day. Where did the laws get changed to allow that to happen? And when did the internet become the sole domain of corporations? There should be a users bill of rights for the average citizen, not a it's ok for us corporate types to spy on you, but don't spy on us. Also isn't it time to get rid of metered internet? Other countries treat the use of the internet as a utility and charge a flat rate no matter what you use. The big Telcoms want you to pay high rates and extortion priced phones which all seem to be priced fixed to about 650 a piece. We have less privacy and security now than any other time in history. Bose is off my purchase list as well

Junk news

[lems1]

Completely junk news. grrrr

Wow, you're confused, let me help

[Rujiel]

Giving examples as to how other people may be targeted due to the kinds of things they listen to does not mean that you want to target them yourself, nor does it mean that those examples should receive some sort of "special expectation of privacy" compared to any other example. Unless I'm misunderstanding, a group like the ACLU must be the most stigmatizing group of all in your mind.

just as I was about to buy wireless headphones

[No Longer an AC]

I have Bose QC3 headphones but am tired of wires. I know I could use it without the app, but is still a strike against Bose IMO.

The biggest problem I've have with these is the wire. It's cheap and tends to fray at the connectors. I'm on my 3rd cable and you can't just use any male to male 3.5mm cable because the plastic molding around the plug won't allow it to fit.

The 2nd biggest problem is feedback. I guess this is due to dust buildup as spraying compressed air into them seems to fix it. If compressed air is not readily available and I get them adjusted just right on my head the feedback goes away but it's tricky.

The 3rd problem is of course that it requires a battery to work at all. If the battery is dead, why wouldn't they make it work without the noise-cancelling abilities?

Obviously a wireless headphone will require batteries so I can live with that. I just have to have two batteries. Oh, the QC35 does not have user-replaceable batteries. It's a non-starter for me now. I have been listening to my QC3s so many times when the battery has died that not being able to pop in my backup battery would mean I can't use them much of the time.

Doesn't matter

[Anonymous Coward]

Guys, almost all apps share your private data with 3rd parties. It's kind of a moot point to get all huffy about Bose doing it. I wrote about it on my blog at www.djheadphoneshq.com