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Moderate Drinking Can Damage the Brain, Claim Researchers (theguardian.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Drinking even moderate amounts of alcohol can damage the brain and impair cognitive function over time, researchers have claimed. Writing in the British Medical Journal, researchers from the University of Oxford and University College London, describe how they followed the alcohol intake and cognitive performance of 550 men and women over 30 years from 1985. At the end of the study the team took MRI scans of the participants' brains. None of the participants were deemed to have an alcohol dependence, but levels of drinking varied. After excluding 23 participants due to gaps in data or other issues, the team looked at participants' alcohol intake as well as their performance on various cognitive tasks, as measured at six points over the 30 year period. The team also looked at the structure of the participants' brains, as shown by the MRI scan, including the structure of the white matter and the state of the hippocampus -- a seahorse-shaped area of the brain associated with memory. After taking into account a host of other factors including age, sex, social activity and education, the team found that those who reported higher levels of drinking were more often found to have a shrunken hippocampus, with the effect greater for the right side of the brain. While 35% of those who didn't drink were found to have shrinkage on the right side of the hippocampus, the figure was 65% for those who drank on average between 14 and 21 units a week, and 77% for those who drank 30 or more units a week.
Perhaps it's not that drinking makes you stupid, but rather you have to be stupid in the first place to drink.
Chaos maximizes locally around me.
Did those people do anything else during the 30 years, or did they simply sit still, staring at the wall, waiting for the next test and drinking alcohol?
I get that this kind of study is very hard to perform with reliable results, but humans are very complex. Trying to boil it all down to a single factor is a disservice to everyone, and won't get us closer to the truth.
From the study: 1 unit is 10mL or 8g of alcohol. 14 units (UK guidance per week for men an women) is 4 pints of high strength beer (5.2%) or 5 large glasses of 14% wine. 24.5 units (US guidance for men) is equivalent to 7 pints of beer or 9 glasses of wine.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
I'm in trouble. Now I can tell my wife I have a medical problem. Then I'll tell her she's the reason for my drinking. Then my doctor can write a prescription! ;)
While 35% of those who didn't drink were found to have shrinkage on the right side of the hippocampus, the figure was 65% for those who drank on average between 14 and 21 units a week, and 77% for those who drank 30 or more units a week.
Per the article 14 units = approximately 6 pints of beer. Is that really moderate drinking? That's basically having a drink or more a day. Not alcoholic territory or anything but that's pretty steady consumption. Moderate drinking to my mind would be maybe a pint or two a week at most. Not having a drink with dinner every night. I'm not being critical. If someone enjoys a beer or glass of wine with dinner that's fine as long as they do so responsibly but it isn't what I consider moderate consumption.
Anyway, alcohol isn't good for you. News at 11... I'm pretty sure that anyone drinking a pint a day isn't overly concerned about the health effects, good or bad.
140 to 210mL alcohol a week is not moderate drinking. That's 2-3 beers or glasses of wine a day on average. I'd call that pretty heavy drinking.
are you sure it is not age related? between 20 & 50 is a long time. I know I cant do now what i could do when i was 20
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
isn't it?
*Pops open another cold one, leans back, doesn't give a shit*
Eat the rich.
,not the other voices, you hear.
i.e. people who have nothing to do can drink alcohol, and its the lack of stimulation on the brain that is the cause.
Whereas people who have something to do (e.g. somewhere to go, a night job, etc.) have more mental stimulation, but less times when they can drink.
I'm on an anti-seizure medication and it has the same warnings. And its made explicitly treat my condition with minimum damaging affects on my brain. I would imagine something brewed with little to no consideration on the long term implications would have a worse effect, We just have to admit that everything we take into our bodies have both positive and negative effects. We just have to be responsible for what we consume and how much.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
They were drinking this over the course of a week. It would be a high amount if consumed in a single day, but not when spread out over 7.
If you are on average consuming one or more pints of beer every day then that is a rather brisk consumption of the product. Just because they aren't typically drinking enough to get plastered doesn't make it moderate unless you are comparing them to alcoholics.
I drink to forget so this is only good news.
Mormons - being in a "religion" started by a Con artist looking to get rich and laid. I can respect that.
Muslims - being in a religion started by a con artist who wanted political power.
Buddhists - ahhha. Yeah they say you shouldn't drink.
So these people who ingest 140-210 ml of ethanol per week are considered moderate drinkers?
I think my hippocampus is safe for now.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Scientists prove WATER IS WET!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I've had a lot of thoughts in my life and one just entered my head. If a man can't drink while he's living, how the hell can he drink when he's dead.
Well, that explains Brexit. 3-4 decades of drinking a pint of beer with lunch every day caused shrunken brains which led a lot of older people to vote yes.
Enjoy life!
As soon as you're born you're dying.
They turned to drinking to cope with dealing with stupid people at their work and the real cause of the problem is that they lost brain cells from dealing with said stupid people.
We'll make great pets
but only the weak ones.
Did the study state there was a concrete cause-and-effect aspect? Or did they just show their results that show a correlation?
Yes they impled cause-and-effect :
the original BMJ article title is Moderate alcohol consumption as risk factor for adverse brain outcomes and cognitive decline: longitudinal cohort study.
It implies that moderate drinking is a potential factor that contributes to the brain damage.
This is then speculated even further by the press, with titles such as "Can Damage The Brain".
The PHDComics on Science News Cycle applies as usual.
The correct wording would have been " Link found between drinking and brain".
i.e.: we know that they are correlated (we have a link in the numbers), but we haven't yet a model explaining why (not a model which reasonnably explains most of the observed data).
- Is the drinking causing the brain damage ?
(it's plausible, as alcohol is toxic. And other situations have proven that repeated damage, even if each one should be small enough to recover, can cumulate over time and could sometime cause degenerative disease. See the problem with degenrative diseases and contact sports).
- Is having a stupider brain make the person more likely to drink ?
(again it's plausible. people with psychiatric problems are more likely to seek substances, both for the "feel better" kick and as misguided attempts to self medicate (feel functional). See alcoholism and depression, etc.)
- Are both drinking and brain damage just appearing together in people as a consequence of some other factor that the researcher haven't controlled for.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
...Is an overvalued organ.
are you sure it is not age related? between 20 & 50 is a long time
Age was taken into account. : there's a statistical link between the two.
Still, some people degraded faster than others in this span of time.
And those were significantly more likely to also be drinking.
- Thus the actual conclusion that one real scientist should take home
- Thus also the baseless spin that the press (and even the original BMJ article) are trying to take on it : even light drinking cause brain destruction
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
After excluding 23 participants due to gaps in data or other issues
After taking into account a host of other factors including age, sex, social activity and education,
35% of [control] were found to have shrinkage on the right side of the hippocampus
the figure was 65% for those who drank on average between 14 and 21 units a week, and 77% for those who drank 30 or more units a week.
All this based on 1 MRI scan after 20 years, tweaking some data, and then there's just a bunch of random changes with no real statistical significance?
Lame.
Apparently 14 to 21 units is in this study categorized as moderate drinking. It sounds like rather a lot to me. It's decidedly more than the occasional glass of wine with dinner or drinking alcohol at social functions. For the age group in question, it sounds like a lot and adverse effects shouldn't be all that surprising?
That not true! Me brain go worksing still! Drinking good! ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Whores and ale!
Because I read now that a 750ml bottle of wine contains 10 units of alcohol, while I was always taught that it contains six glasses, and that normal glasses all more or less compared in their alcohol amount (and were therefore considered a 'unit'). So 21 units would be 2 bottles of wine a week. That, in my mind, is still somewhat heavy drinking. Not overly so, but still.
Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
fact
eat shiat and bark at the moon
People drink to forget their troubles. This could plausibly be a selling point for the product. A label stating that it's scientifically proven to make you forget your problems over time just might help manufacturers sell
More booze.
For those who drink to forget, this study is scientific proof that your method works!
Sounds like they drank too much to me...
I would be VERY interested if all these non drinking, non meat eating, non sex, religious etc people were all are walking around at 150+ years old.
But I don't see ANYONE that old around.
The reality is, People at 75+ years old all seem to be equally deteriorated no matter what their past was.
The odd few that might make 90+ years old but are hardly a barrel of health. - In most cases, they are propped up by mediation and luck. 'Funny enough' if you talk to these people, you'll find out they weren't the sort that 'never drank'. They will tell your they never jogged every day while sipping vegan green tea etc either haha.
So, In my view, once you reach around 60, sadly, your health drastically decreases and very fast. You have around 15 good years left. So if you squandered 40 years of the prime of your life thinking you have invested in more years, I am sorry but you WASTED 40 years.
Enjoy life. Don't bank on it.
Fortunately, I only drink pints, never units.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
not drinking (moderately) can damage the mood.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
I imagine there is a big difference, biologically speaking, if you have one beer a night, Monday through Saturday, than if you were to drink six pints on a Friday night. Experience tells me it certainly feels different the next morning.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
The number of people on here saying a drink or two every day is alcoholism is somewhat astonishing. A glass or two (or even three) at night does not an alcoholic make. If you're pounding a two-four of rye every day, then you have a problem. Enjoying a couple of glasses of good beer or a bottle of wine with dinner (with your partner) is simply enjoying something that tastes good.
"U feckin' knobs are lookin' fer a burst mooth."
You are welcome on my lawn.
Ever wonder if those that tend to drink more tend to read less and do less strenuous mental activities?
It's alcohol, which is a DRUG. Now, THIS week alcohol is bad for you. Next month, alcohol will turn your brain into that of a harvard educated scholar. Hey, anything over consumed can be bad for you....
Stop crying. I know it sucks to realize your drinking habits are shrinking your brain, but get over it. You can excuse it as much as you want but it is what it is. You now have a choice. You can continue to shrink your brain and enjoy your alcohol or you can stop drinking. It is that simple.
The Puritans drank. Not so sure they were even that uptight about sex if what is said about "bundling" is true. A young man and a young woman would be placed in a bed with their clothes on and a board between them to decide if they were compatible for marriage. Yeah right.
You were supposed to get married -- celibacy was regarded as an errant Catholic thing. Cheatin', however, was treated severely.
I only can deem such research results as irrelevant, and a waste of resources and time. If you only take into consideration one aspect of these people's lives, then you can't draw any definitive conclusion. They most certainly had very different diets, very different lifestyles, very different life conditions, work conditions, stress, illnesses short or long term serious or not so much, travel habits, sport and workout habits, and a million other factors that could cause any kinds of differences in the long term MRI scans.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Think I'll wait a week, until the next study contradicts this one.
Even if you don't drink your brain wears out, starts screwing up, when you get old? This is news, how, exactly?
My conclusion: Nothing to see here.
My recommendations: Don't sit on your ass your whole life, get some damn exercise, don't drink every damn day, and while we're on the subject, don't eat garbage food all the time, and you'll be as fine as you ever could be. Of course no one who needs to be told all this will take the advice so as usual I'm wasting my breath.
The right side of the hippocampus is the part of the brain that makes you a square.
Alcohol every day suffer brain damage.
I will continue to not worry about my occasional (less than once a month) drink.
"Sorry, there is no peer review to display for this article"
So at this point there is no consensus behind this hypothesis.
One problem with the article is there is no mention of the fact this has not been vetted by peers in the field. We really need journalists to take a course on how to report on scientific papers. Just because someone wrote a paper does not make it accepted science.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Oops, never mind! Only the topic changes, the attitude never does. ;-)
Whaaaaat? Drinking an organic solvent has negative effects on your body? Unthinkable!
ITT: "2 drinks per day is moderate drinking? OMG. That's not what I'd call moderate drinking. That's a LOT!!!" Or "Lightweights!"
I don't drink BTW, but for reference...
https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm
What does moderate drinking mean?
According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans,1 moderate alcohol consumption is defined as having up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men. This definition is referring to the amount consumed on any single day and is not intended as an average over several days. However, the Dietary Guidelines do not recommend that individuals who do not drink alcohol start drinking for any reason.
That's a feature.
The inability to get to sleep, financial stress, and environmental stress, and general levels of pain all lead to increased drinking.
All of those things are correlated with this area of the brain being smaller.
Going to need a more finely tuned study.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
--nomsg