Slashdot Mirror


US Pays Farmers Billions To Save The Soil. But It's Blowing Away (npr.org)

An anonymous reader shares an NPR report: Soil has been blowing away from the Great Plains ever since farmers first plowed up the prairie. It reached crisis levels during the Dust Bowl of the 1930s, when windblown soil turned day into night. In recent years, dust storms have returned, driven mainly by drought. But Shook -- and others -- say farmers are making the problem worse by taking land where grass used to grow and plowing it up, exposing vulnerable soil. This is where federal policy enters the picture. Most of that grassland was there in the first place because of a taxpayer-funded program. The U.S. Department of Agriculture rents land from farmers across the country and pays them to grow grass, trees and wildflowers in order to protect the soil and also provide habitat for wildlife. It's called the Conservation Reserve Program, or CRP. Ten years ago, there was more land in the CRP than in the entire state of New York. In North Dakota, CRP land covered 5,000 square miles. But CRP agreements only last 10 years, and when farming got more profitable about a decade ago, farmers in North Dakota pulled more than half of that land out of the CRP to grow crops like corn and soybeans. Across the country, farmers decided not to re-enroll 15.8 million acres of farmland in the CRP when those contracts expired between 2007 and 2014.

186 comments

  1. Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Use the land to grow weed. You don't really have to plow it.

    1. Re:Make some real money by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's probably for the best. Odds are that anyone growing weed couldn't plow a straight row anyway.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no need for plowing anyway. Cannot remember the last time i saw a plow back home in southern Manitoba last time we plowed I was 12 years old now i am 50+.
      There have been min till options for 30+ years this really baffles me.

    3. Re: Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have 100 acres of weed, I'm not paying you 60 an eighth. Buy hemp.

    4. Re:Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its weed, not alcohol. its more like they would never finish plowing the field ;)

    5. Re:Make some real money by wyHunter · · Score: 0

      Please go back to Colorado, stay there, and shut the f up.

    6. Re:Make some real money by ausekilis · · Score: 2

      In other news, stock prices for Mountain Dew and Doritos are soaring...

    7. Re:Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We found him sitting behind the plow, holding a handful of dirt, muttering something about how we're all part of the earth and the earth is part of us."

    8. Re:Make some real money by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      But those both contain a lot of corn, so we will have to plow up the weed fields and plant more corn... wait...

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    9. Re:Make some real money by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you weren't in the .07 USD per acre of produce, like Monsanto is.

    10. Re:Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, man. You can go to hell. We're going to liberate the planet from your tyranny of prohibition.

    11. Re: Make some real money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell us more about how Manitoba is identical to the Midwestern USA in both the crops grown and type of soil.

    12. Re:Make some real money by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      We've found the money loop!

  2. Corn by unixcorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Farming got more profitable when the government fully embraced ethanol. Farmers plowed under land to grow more corn to supply the government-funded ethanol plants that needed to go into gasoline by government mandate. Now the government is blaming farmers for farming and wanting to change the rules.

    1. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where are the wind breaks? Cant we farm without the soil blowing away

    2. Re:Corn by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ethanol is profitable only because of the tax incentives. Without the tax incentives, farmers will find something else grow.

    3. Re:Corn by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Wasting tax payer dollars because farmers want to plow the land that was protected. Perhaps we should return to those dust bowl days so farmers can learn a hard lesson again.

    4. Re:Corn by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      And what about the wind blowing away?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    5. Re:Corn by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it is fun to drink.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    6. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ethanol is profitable only because of the tax incentives. Without the tax incentives, farmers will find something else grow.

      Or, without tax incentives to grow corn for ethanol, farmers will go bankrupt because everybody's growing wheat instead, and the only people who can afford to make a living growing commodities are massive agribusiness farmers who can benefit from economies of scale by farming hundreds of thousands of acres using high degrees of automation that only someone farming that many acres can afford.

    7. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You making it sound like "the government" is singular entity, when in fact it is multiple agencies that are given different mandates by different pieces of legislation; and those different pieces of legislation are voted in by elected representatives with different agendas. So no surprise there.

      Anyway could we do away with the naive view of "the government"/"the establishment" and have an informed and nuanced conversation.

    8. Re:Corn by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What country do you live in? The one that I know would only throw more tax money at those poor farmers to fix the problem.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re: Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farmer: "Wah, nobody will buy my corn!" Politician: "Don't worry, we'll make it mandatory to add ethanol to gasoline. It might be inefficient, and bad for the environment, and hard on engines, and waste money in infrastructure and management, but hey, your corn will be bought. In fact, why don't you plant _all_ corn!" History: "In the US they grew too much food and then burned it."

    10. Re:Corn by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Farming got more profitable when the government fully embraced ethanol. Farmers plowed under land to grow more corn to supply the government-funded ethanol plants that needed to go into gasoline by government mandate. Now the government is blaming farmers for farming and wanting to change the rules.

      Rather, they're blaming farmers for being short-sighted and engaging in farming practices that will be profitable for a decade, and then lose so much topsoil that the land is barren for a hundred years, but hey, "fark you, I got mine," right?

    11. Re:Corn by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      That's not really possible. What blows away is the finest topsoil layer (which also happens to be the most fertile layer, which is the real problem -- we're letting our best soil blow away). Any amount of breeze is strong enough to carry those particles away if they are exposed. That's why grasses and such are so important.

    12. Re:Corn by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Cant we farm without the soil blowing away

      Yes we can. The trick is to stop plowing. No-till is cheaper, less labor intensive, more profitable, and better for the soil. It also results in more carbon retained in the soil as humus. It is widely used, and adoption is growing.

    13. Re:Corn by unixcorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Farmers rent their land to the CRP program. When the lease is up, the farmers can do what they please. With the promise of skyrocketing corn prices, it made it more attractive to farm the land rather than leaving the land in the program at the end of the lease. It's simple economics and farmers are business people. No taxpayer dollars were wasted.

    14. Re:Corn by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Or, without tax incentives to grow corn for ethanol, farmers will go bankrupt

      GOOD! Then they can get new jobs producing something that people want to buy because it actually has value. Stupid make work schemes are not "good for the economy".

      Why should farmers be subsidized, and not hairdressers or grocery clerks? Since farming is actually harmful to the environment, it should be the last thing to be subsidized.

    15. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and here's your fix!

    16. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps we should return to those dust bowl days so farmers can learn a hard lesson again.

      And you will learn why starvation was the number 1 killer of humans before modern agriculture. Your children will learn the phrase "Sorry honey, the bread was sold out again at $50 a loaf. No dinner tonight."

      Be wise and not wish misfortune on the hand that feeds.

    17. Re:Corn by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      A correction, the government is paying farmers to look after land because they are greed driven idiots who happily shit in their own nests. The idea is still stupid, if the idiot farmers are incapable of looking after land, then buy it off them and put it in nature parks, oh wait, more greed driven idiots will fuck that up.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:Corn by Bruinwar · · Score: 2

      When corn prices skyrocketed then leveled off at a much higher price, everyone blamed ethanol. When the price of copper climbed 4X they blamed it on global demand & China. The fact is that commodities when fucking NUTS there for a while during the Great Recession & have normalized somewhere in the last few years. It had little to nothing to do with the multiple bullshit reasons the talking heads spat out daily

      Global pools of wealth gotta go somewhere.

      --
      SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
    19. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farming got more profitable when the government fully embraced ethanol

      When did that happen?

    20. Re: Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't they form agricultural cooperatives?

    21. Re:Corn by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      It's worse than that. I feel like a fucking bumper sticker because I say this here so often, but the corn used for making fuel is virtually all grown continuously, without crop rotation. This depletes the soil of everything. In cases where they burn the stubble they are at least putting the carbon back into the soil (corn is a heavy soil carbon user) but they are also emitting a bunch of soot.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Corn by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      Yea, fuck food!

    23. Re:Corn by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Yea, fuck food!

      We had food long before we had ethanol subsidies.

    24. Re:Corn by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      1975 is when the gov first started giving tax breaks to ethanol fuel.

    25. Re:Corn by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that. I feel like a fucking bumper sticker because I say this here so often, but the corn used for making fuel is virtually all grown continuously, without crop rotation. This depletes the soil of everything. In cases where they burn the stubble they are at least putting the carbon back into the soil (corn is a heavy soil carbon user) but they are also emitting a bunch of soot.

      Yep. Harvest everything in the fall, leave it bare over the winter so that the storms can blow away another inch of top soil, then replant in the spring. Even just filling it in with clover for a season would be better, both for preventing erosion and for replacing nitrogen.

    26. Re:Corn by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No offense but the problem are not farmers per se but the American way of running things: bigger farer wider. Ever looked how a European farm looks in France, Germany or Spain?
      Relatively small fields, surrounded by bushes and trees. Small woods even. After harvest usually some crop that can start growing and survive the winter is planted.
      Ofc we don't have such 'dust bowl' areas, nevertheless in the year 2017 a professional farmer should not be dumber than average educated guy.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    27. Re: Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple people have to simplify everything to a single thing. Its fucking retarded.

    28. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offence, but it is the farmers doing the running of things that way. Kind stupid to claim it's not their fault, it's the way they do things, when it's the way the do things (short sightedly and ignorantly) is being complaiend about.

    29. Re:Corn by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Where does it get blown to?

    30. Re:Corn by PPH · · Score: 1

      Global pools of wealth gotta go somewhere.

      Back to the workers and shareholders.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    31. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, because the point was that we were paying farmers not to destroy our environment, and now they are just going to destroy it anyway. And since billions of dollars were spent on this program for a result that is now being obliterated, yes, dollars were wasted. Those dollars were supposed to protect the environment, and that isn't happening.

      The whole thrust of the article is that the CRP program itself is flawed. If we are going to spend money, it should be spent in a way that will actually work.

    32. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      leave it bare over the winter so that the storms can blow away another inch of top soil

      That may happen in the Central Plains states, but I can assure you that does not happen in the north central states during winter.

      To put it another way, if storms are blowing away inches of topsoil in the winter here in Minnesota - when the ground freezes down to 48" below the surface in the coldest of winters and becomes a giant block of ice - we have a lot bigger problems than losing a little topsoil.

    33. Re: Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We shouldn't be growing corn in the Plains. There just isn't enough rain in most areas to do so sustainably. Corn has a very high rate of transpiration. To make up the deficit in water needed by the corn that doesn't come from the rain, water is drawn out of the ground. Although center pivot irrigation efficiency has improved substantially, the response has been to plant crops that require more water. Much of that water comes from the Ogallala Aquifer, which is rapidly being depleted in some areas. Water is being drawn out too rapidly for the recharging of the aquifer to keep up. One consequence is that land is sinking in some areas where the water is being drawn out. There's also a connection between groundwater and surface water, so as the groundwater is depleted, some streams at the surface dry up.

      We've overallocated the water in the central and western US, depleting the Ogallala Aquifer and drying up rivers like the Colorado River and San Joaquin River. Destroying the native grasses that held the soil in place was a mistake, but water is probably an even bigger issue. Regardless, we just shouldn't be growing corn in the Plains.

      As an aside, one of the main reasons for opposing the Keystone XL pipeline in Nebraska was that oil spills could pollute the aquifer. The Sandhills are important for recharging the aquifer because the soil allows for more infiltration of water than in other areas.

    34. Re:Corn by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

      "Where does it get blown to"

      When it settles down, I'm guessing mostly to the bottom of rivers, lakes or the ocean, or when it rains it ends up in sewer systems and from there it also goes to the bottom of rivers, lakes or the ocean.

    35. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, if current land maintenance is not for the "good of the country", and gov is aware of it, and does the "right thing", then a better solution would be to raise property taxes appropriately (e.g. if someone has to pay you to "leave land alone and grow grass", then something is messed up---property taxes should be such that you as a farmer would find it unprofitable to own land that you don't use---and just let the gov have it as part of a tax lien).

    36. Re:Corn by Sperbels · · Score: 3, Funny

      Where does it get blown to?

      Downwind.

    37. Re:Corn by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      A correction to your correction. The only reason the type of farming that is causing significant damage is happening is because the govt. pays people for ethanol fuels. Otherwise you'd just have normal plowing cycles with plenty of intermediate crops to keep topsoil loss away and replenish the soil used.

    38. Re: Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation needed.

    39. Re:Corn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We used to have famines, too. Not so much in the age of farm subsidies.

    40. Re:Corn by MoaDweeb · · Score: 1

      Isn't raising taxes what filthy commies do? Since when has the GOP been on the side of fiscal probity or the environment?

      --
      New Zealanders are well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. One represents Australia, the other the rest of the world
    41. Re:Corn by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

      Global pools of wealth gotta go somewhere.

      Back to the workers and shareholders.

      GD Right. But that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

      --
      SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
    42. Re:Corn by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      We used to have famines, too. Not so much in the age of farm subsidies.

      Wrong. The Irish potato famine was the last major peacetime famine in Europe, and it occurred while Britain (which ruled Ireland) still enforced the "Corn Laws" which imposed a tariff on grain imports and a subsidy for domestic production of grain.

    43. Re:Corn by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Specifically, cross-slot seed drills usually achieve better growing results for lower costs. They're already widely used in the Dakotas.

    44. Re:Corn by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Following on from this - because of the way cross slot stuff works you don't need to use monsanto seeds, etc. The NZ developers took a specific dislike to Monsanto's patent system and wanted to make it usable by farmers without exposing them to crop royalties.

    45. Re:Corn by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      "Since farming is actually harmful to the environment, it should be the last thing to be subsidized." That was what I commenting about.

  3. Government is just subsidizing bad practices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want the farmers to save their soil, you've got to let them go bankrupt.

    1. Re:Government is just subsidizing bad practices. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      But corporate farmers are people too!

    2. Re:Government is just subsidizing bad practices. by ctilsie242 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Then, some big multinational company will buy the land, and do the same thing, except on a larger scale.

    3. Re:Government is just subsidizing bad practices. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Big Ag is big multinational corporations.

    4. Re:Government is just subsidizing bad practices. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Good. I hate people. For a moment I was concerned that we could be hurting money, that would certainly have pained me.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Government is just subsidizing bad practices. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then there will be landless refugees who emigrate from the US to Canada. And the Canadians populist parties pop up and start yelling racist anti-USian slogans all over the ice hockey rings, ruining the national pastime and souring the milk and maple syrup.

  4. Tense is everything... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tense is everything, and tense is something the title and summary screws up royally.

    Title says ...

    US Pays Farmers Billions To Save The Soil. But It's Blowing Away

    however the summary says the US stopped paying the farmers that money, because the farmers ceased to renew the enrolments...

    farmers decided not to re-enroll 15.8 million acres of farmland in the CRP when those contracts expired between 2007 and 2014

    The title makes it sound like the farmers are taking the money and eschewing their responsibilities and allowing the soil to blow away - they aren't, those responsibilities expired when the money stopped flowing.

    1. Re:Tense is everything... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Really douche bag. RTFA:

      "According to Cox, when farmers decide to take land out of the CRP, it means that most of the money spent on environmental improvements on that land is wasted. "The benefit is lost really quickly," he says."

      Farmed are pulling out of the CRP. The CRP agreements only last 10 years. After the 10 years the farmed pull out as opposed to continue.

    2. Re:Tense is everything... by David_Hart · · Score: 2

      Really douche bag. RTFA:

      "According to Cox, when farmers decide to take land out of the CRP, it means that most of the money spent on environmental improvements on that land is wasted. "The benefit is lost really quickly," he says."

      Farmed are pulling out of the CRP. The CRP agreements only last 10 years. After the 10 years the farmed pull out as opposed to continue.

      During that 10 year span, or however long the land was set aside, there was a benefit to the environment. Yes, any future benefit disappears when the farmers voluntarily opt out of the program. But the farmer isn't to blame for the fact that the dollars were spent on a temporary fix with no permanent solution.

      The dollars should have been used to buy up the land, not just rent it. For that I blame the people who decided on this program in the first place. My guess is that they might have honestly thought that we would be fixing environmental issue by now instead of making them worse....

    3. Re:Tense is everything... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      If the government wants to bitch and moan about it, then they should buy the land and then its theirs to do with as they wish, for as long as they wish.

      Farmers electing to not renew the contracts for allowing the land to lay fallow means that they think the money they get for doing so is less than the money they can get from working that land - so basically the government need to make it more of an incentive than they do right now.

      And none of that, including reading the article, changes my point about the title, summary and tense... the money paid is historical for historical obligations, it doesn't cover current obligations.

    4. Re:Tense is everything... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What permanent solution would you suggest? Mowing down the farmers instead of their crops? Because that's pretty much the only thing left possible.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Tense is everything... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Buy the land, don't rent it. If you rent it, you can't complain when the house you build on the land is torn down after your rental period expires.

    6. Re:Tense is everything... by G00F · · Score: 1

      as he stated, buying the land for that use, rather than renting.

      But there are others as well. Such as requiring small portions or large lands to be "native". Such as any farms over 1000 acres require .1% of continuous native landscape.(and other verbiage to prevent a mile long 1 foot wide strip for that purpose)

      --
      The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
    7. Re: Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is unfortunately a significant overlap between those who farm/graze the land and those who firmly believe that the government doesn't have the right to own any land.

    8. Re:Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a massive waste of money this is the responsibility of the farmers to fix this.
      There where 2 dust bowls in America the big one in the 30's and again a decade latter when old habits started coming back but it was not as bad.
      Looks like the old saying is true "you can tell a farmer but you can't tell them much"
      I was born and raised on a farm but left at age 25.

    9. Re:Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really douche bag. RTFA:

      "According to Cox, when farmers decide to take land out of the CRP, it means that most of the money spent on environmental improvements on that land is wasted. "The benefit is lost really quickly," he says."

      Farmed are pulling out of the CRP. The CRP agreements only last 10 years. After the 10 years the farmed pull out as opposed to continue.

      During that 10 year span, or however long the land was set aside, there was a benefit to the environment. Yes, any future benefit disappears when the farmers voluntarily opt out of the program. But the farmer isn't to blame for the fact that the dollars were spent on a temporary fix with no permanent solution.

      The dollars should have been used to buy up the land, not just rent it. For that I blame the people who decided on this program in the first place. My guess is that they might have honestly thought that we would be fixing environmental issue by now instead of making them worse....

      It's likely that buying the land was not practical as the owners wouldn't sell.

    10. Re: Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But when their crop prices go to shit, you can be sure they will demand subsidies from the government once again.

    11. Re:Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teaching framers alternative farming techniques and farming strategies. A varied selection of plants to grow side by side eases the problem. Part of Germany has been suffering from dust storms for the same reasons and as a result some farmers have tried to increase the variety, little like moving back to the traditional way of farming. Profitability is the question as the big US-style machines cant operate in those kids of complex fields. Operating without subsidies would be challenging without steep rises on the price of food.
        Maybe some expert could shine the light on question if a long term soil development is possible in prairie environments. There have been some successes in soil improvement and water cycle restoration using trees in arid conditions in Africa. Why not also in the US?

    12. Re:Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      things aren't binary - either A xor B, there are many other options.
      For example subsidizing macrobiotic farming, that is, practices which enrich the soil and improve soil structure while producing food. For example the use of no till methods which destroy soil structure, the planting of species which mine minerals deep int the soil and bring it to the surface (Daikon radish), rotation crop like the good old time, planting trees int he middle of plantation to restore rich ecosystems (food forests).
      So many ways to solve this situation.

    13. Re:Tense is everything... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What? Government owning land? What are you, a commie?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Tense is everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the government wants to bitch and moan about it

      The government isn't a thing that has emotions. Seriously.

  5. sounds like a shakedown by bugs2squash · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    farmers want an increased government handout so they hold the land to ransom. They already expect their children to be bequeathed jobs for life. If they exacerbate the soil erosion they reason the gov. will just give them yet more money to truck the soil back from wherever the wind took it.

    --
    Nullius in verba
    1. Re:sounds like a shakedown by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're barking up the wrong tree. The number of family farms are few in comparison to the corporate-owned farms. It's the corporations that are raking in every available tax break. Previous generations of my family were farmers. When I expressed an interest in going to a community college with an agriculture program in the early 1990's, my father told me to forget about it as family farming was a dead end. I went to a community college known for its technology programs.

    2. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. Hate farmers much? It's a lousy troll headline. Farmers elected to exit the program. That's ok because it is their land. As before, they can elect to participate in a specific program or do other things like farm the land or sell it. How you can call this holding hostage is beyond me or any reasonable mind I suspect. In some ways this is how the program is supposed to work. The land is kept arable so when farming is needed, it can be put into production. Well, that's what happened. No actual conflict or drama.

      Now if the products that can be made from farmed crops increase in type and number, that will increase the value of the land and require an increase in the rate paid by any program to keep arable land out of production..Same thing is true where farmer's land becomes desirable for other land purposes. Then any program would have to compete with the price offered for the land. No mystery, ill will or drama required.

    3. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      truck the soil back from wherever the wind took it.

      Makes me think of an inverted Dune: imagine a water planet where the Fremen have put up windrafts to collect sand.

      Or, maybe, "What I really need is an amphibious droid that speaks the binary language of soil capturers..."

    4. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a shakedown all right, but it's the government shaking down the farmers. The EPA spent the last 16 years assaulting farms and seizing their lands for bogus "US Waters" infringements. Now it aims to slander farmers by blaming them for NOT taking government largess.

      Farmers are not idiots. They know how to protect the land, and they do a far better job that the government does.

      Just ask the Indians.

    5. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you guys think the government has a right to tell you what to do with your land, but not what you can smoke, whether or not you can abort your baby, whether a guy in a dress is allowed to use women's restrooms? Interesting.

    6. Re:sounds like a shakedown by msauve · · Score: 3, Informative
      Bullshit.

      Family farms comprise 99 percent of U.S. farms, accounting for 89 percent of production. Small farms make up 90 percent of farms, operating nearly half of farmland. Still, large family farms accounted for 42 percent of production in 2015.

      - US Dept. of Agriculture

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    7. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      I don't get the distinction. A "family" owns a farm. One of the daughters goes off to the big city and gets one of those fancy business degrees. Comes back and tells the family to incorporate in order to protect their personal assets (the family home). She also advises them on how to properly deal with futures, investing the proper amount of resources in equipment, how to deal with debt and other such matters...one being, how to take advantage of tax breaks which duly elected representatives put in place for them. It is now a "corporate-owned" farm, but ran much more like a profitable business.

      How is that a bad thing?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    8. Re:sounds like a shakedown by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      How is that a bad thing?

      How many millions of dollars does this "corporate-owned" farm spend lobbying in Washington?

    9. Re: sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your anecdotal story means nothing against facts. Learn to learn and come back a better person.

    10. Re: sounds like a shakedown by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Please, kill yourself.

      The Slashdot solution for every inconvenient reality.

    11. Re: sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inconvenient reality for who, you? Because having to face the reality that you have to prove yourself correct is a burden upon you? Try again, buttercup. The majesty of your stupidity does not tire me, but gives me life and laughs.

      Remember I'm not the one ignoring reality, you are by refusing facts and proof in favor of feelings. I just figured your experience in life must be so painful that if someone encouraged your death you might just do it.

      May your suffering continue indefinitely.

    12. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Family farms" and corporate-owned farms are the same according to that report, so long as a majority shareholder does some work or has a relative that does some work on the farm.

      By that measure, nearly every multinational corporation is a family business.

      You know fully well what people mean when they say "Family-farm" yet chose to ignore the contents of the report for a severely lacking headline summary that reinforces your biases. At least you could have read the report you linked to which shows that your claim, using terms as they are expected, is wrong.

    13. Re: sounds like a shakedown by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I just figured your experience in life must be so painful that if someone encouraged your death you might just do it.

      That may have been the case when I was a teenager. "Harold and Maude" changed my perspective on life. I have every intention of living, no matter how inconvenient that is for everyone else.

    14. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      http://www.cnbc.com/2014/05/06...

      "Speaking at a symposium at Iowa State University on May 2, the day the census came out, Vilsack said the U.S. faces an "eroding middle" when it comes to farming, and that a small number of large farm operations "produces the vast majority of the nation's food." "

      "However, three quarters of all U.S. farms gross only $50,000 a year and currently account for only 4 percent of product sales. But one analyst doesn't see that as a problem."

      Just 4% of farms account for almost all u.s. sales.

      The definition of farmer includes many tiny and unprofitable "farms" that are really more hobby or retirement plots than real farms. It's $1000 gross sales (so you can lose money every year and still be classed as a "farmer".)

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    15. Re:sounds like a shakedown by msauve · · Score: 1

      a small number of large farm operations "produces the vast majority of the nation's food."

      Your claim seems to imply that those large farms aren't family ones. The facts are clearly spelled out at the previously provided link:

      Most million-dollar farms (90 percent) are family farms. Only 3 percent are nonfamily corporations, and 80 percent of these corporations report no more than 10 shareholders.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    16. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "My extended family got out of family in Idaho"

      Huh?

      " One piece of eventually property"

      Huh?

      You're a writer? Planning to retire on your ebooks? Better start stockpiling the cat food now.

    17. Re: sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially for the two fatter people sitting next to you on the bus?

    18. Re: sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need to spend so much effort on ill will.

      I'm curious how many of the family farms are actually in service to corporations. I recall some story about chicken farmers where the corporation owned the chickens or something and the farmer owned the facilities. Basically it put a huge financial burden of risk on the small farmer while the corporation got all the benefits.

    19. Re:sounds like a shakedown by TheSync · · Score: 1

      "A 2013 Department of Agriculture report, for instance, found that, in 2001, farms of 1,000 acres or more accounted for 5.6 percent of all farms and controlled 46.8 percent of all cropland. In 2011, those large farms still represented 5.6 percent of all farms, but now they controlled 53.7 percent of cropland." (source).

      So it is true that "small farms" (i.e. under 1,000 acres) "operate nearly half of farmland", but that number is going down quickly.

      A "family farm" can still be a farm of over 1,000 acres. Kind of like the Trump "family business".

      What is a "farm"? "any place from which $1,000 or more of agricultural products were produced and sold, or normally would have been sold, during the reference year." So it includes land that could, theoretically, produce agricultural income, even if the owners never had any intention of donning a pair of overalls. These aren't the farms of the poor; they're the yards of the upper-middle-class.

    20. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's creimer, bro. He has enough fat saved up just around his throat and neck to last for at least 10 years without eating anything.

      Oh sorry, creimer!

      MUSCLE. He has MUSCLE saved up. That spare tire on his neck is just muscle. He's so RIPPED that his muscles bulge out everywhere. Especially where the bitch tits are.

      And he's saving it all up for kicking ass until he's 120 years old.

      As you do.

    21. Re:sounds like a shakedown by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many of those family farms don't own the land, they rent it.

  6. The ethanol scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ethanol does not contain as much energy per kg as gasoline--it takes more to drive equal distances compared to gasoline. And in a world full of hungry people, ethanol diverts agriculture away from food. It requires government mandates and government subsidies.

    In North America, it is not economically viable on its own. Cheap ethanol from sugar cane is available from Brazil, cheaper than we can produce it ourselves. However the high artificial tariff on imported ethanol eliminates that option. The solution is to end the ethanol mandate, and use Brazillian ethanol. But Monsanto, ADM, Bayer, et al have a lot invested in politicians to prevent that from happening.

    1. Re:The ethanol scam by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but try to end the scam, and Senators from every corn-growing state in the Union will scream bloody murder.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:The ethanol scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theres plenty of food. Tons of it wasted every year, while others on the planet starve. Greed makes humans great. This is 'murika. Me first.

    3. Re:The ethanol scam by acoustix · · Score: 1

      It's not necessarily that Ethanol is a poor energy choice. It's also based on what the Ethanol was made from, and apparently corn is the least effective product to use for Ethanol. Sugar cane is the best to use by far.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    4. Re:The ethanol scam by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's not necessarily that Ethanol is a poor energy choice.

      Ethanol is kind of a vicious bastard of a fuel [additive]. It is strongly hygroscopic and will attract water from the air, which then leads to corrosion on any surfaces which are not coated to prevent it. This is especially a problem for carbureted engines in which fuel is retained inside the carburetor, because they typically involve a variety of metals and then you get blooms of corrosion around all of the friction points, where surface coatings tend to wear off.

      It's also based on what the Ethanol was made from, and apparently corn is the least effective product to use for Ethanol. Sugar cane is the best to use by far.

      How are you defining "best"? I would argue that the best plant-based feedstock for making biofuel is algae, because you can grow it at most latitudes with little energy input which is not direct solar in the form of photosynthesis. It produces feedstock for both ethanol (or more ideally, butanol) and biodiesel (or again, more ideally, green diesel) fuels from air and dirty water, of which there is no real shortage.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Let them grow "grass" . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Without the tax incentives, farmers will find something else grow.

    . . . "grass", ya know, like the type that goes into "funny" cigarettes.

    The farmers will make enough money with that, and won't need any taxpayer money.

    Hey, and then the government can "tax the grass", and actually make money on the scheme.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Let them grow "grass" . . . by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      What happens to the price of that "grass" when 15.8 million acres of it are planted?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    2. Re:Let them grow "grass" . . . by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't know what happens to its price, but I know that then we can certainly make American high again.

      #MAHA

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Let them grow "grass" . . . by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      What happens to the price of that "grass" when 15.8 million acres of it are planted?

      Billions of dollars stay in the American economy rather than going to violent gangs in Mexico and Colombia.

    4. Re:Let them grow "grass" . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Canada!!!

  8. Two problems: tilth and clearing by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Tilth is farmers' fault. There are zero-tilth agricultural methods. Clearing is suppliers' fault. They effectively force farmers to clear woods around their property that would slow winds because it also harbors animals that might shit on the lettuce, or what have you. Instead of doing due diligence and actually inspecting produce, they just want to be able to handle it like it's made of plastic.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re: Two problems: tilth and clearing by gerf · · Score: 1

      First a lot of soils need tilled. Heavy clay for example. Second, you're not allowed to chop down woods for farming.

  9. Republican response to all environmental news by Aboroth · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Don't worry about it, we don't need to take care of anything in the environment. Jesus gave us the Earth to rape for profit. I mean, how can we possibly affect the planet? It's so big! Even if we do end up fucking it up, we only move up the start date for the end times, and God will bail us out with the rapture. Not only will we be super rich, but then we get to go to heaven! Bonus!

    1. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      Don't worry about it, we don't need to take care of anything in the environment. Jesus gave us the Earth to rape for profit. I mean, how can we possibly affect the planet? It's so big! Even if we do end up fucking it up, we only move up the start date for the end times, and God will bail us out with the rapture. Not only will we be super rich, but then we get to go to heaven! Bonus!

      Strawman much. I've known a large number of Christians over the years, none of whom you described.

    2. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republican party line != individual opinion - (hopefully)

    3. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the Republican response, not the Christian one. And it's not a strawman if they actually think that way.
      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/06/01/tim-walberg-climate-change-trump-paris-agreement/102389286/
      Hence our predicament.

    4. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1
      Interesting quote. It's still a strawman to the extent that you added substantially to what he said and also that he represents a single data point. My bigger point is that that the habit of demonizing those who disagree with you in religion or environmental policy won't get you the type of change you want. This is why BLM is destined to never get far because they are so focused on making it all about them and them alone that they won't get the help that's needed. All lives matter could tackle police violence, BLM cannot. The sooner than the environmentally conscious decide to stop calling half the country names and start working on policies that are more broadly accepted the faster they will get what they want.

      I remember the O-zone panic of the 90's and how, by not calling everyone names, lots of change was made in a short amount of time. That can happen again but not if you don't adopt a more mature attitude than Beavis & Butthead.

    5. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by Aboroth · · Score: 1

      Republican is not synonymous with Christian. Many Christians are not Republicans, many Christians are not crazy, and there do exist Republicans who are not any combination of crazy or Christian. However, almost all crazy Christians are Republicans. The party is infested with them.

    6. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by Layzej · · Score: 1

      That's the Republican response, not the Christian one. And it's not a strawman if they actually think that way. https://www.usatoday.com/story... Hence our predicament.

      On the other hand, Not Just Pope Francis: Evangelicals Praise Paris Climate Talks

    7. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by Aboroth · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should actually do something productive, then, like support candidates that have that position, and make their voices heard to politicians that don't. Instead, they say one thing, then do nothing about it, since that's what Jesus would do.

    8. Re:Republican response to all environmental news by Layzej · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should actually do something productive, then, like support candidates that have that position, and make their voices heard to politicians that don't.

      "We will never stop speaking out and engaging the evangelical constituency with these critical issues until humanity’s relationship with God’s creation has truly returned to one of balance and restored relationships, that God intended and the Bible sets out,” they wrote.

  10. You can save soil by making soil by butchersong · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop subsidizing corn for corn syrup and ethanol. Make antibiotic use in grain lots illegal. Re-introduce large herds of ruminants to the areas that are no longer profitable to grow grains on. You know, like the Bison and others that actually created the great plains.

    1. Re:You can save soil by making soil by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      But that's not how you get cheap food that Big Agri likes to produce. I agree with you but it's not going to happen because the big corporations won't go for it and most people won't go for it either because it means their burgers and steaks will go up in price. Packing cows into a feedlot, filling them full of antibiotics, and stuffing them full of GMO corn produces very relatively inexpensive meat but at a tremendous cost that we are starting to pay.

    2. Re:You can save soil by making soil by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You know, like the Bison and others that actually created the great plains.

      I personally happen to be with you there 100%, I think that restoring the Bison to the great plains would be the best use for that area of the country. That's a hell of a lot of free meat and hides, and we're still eating meat and using leather. But they don't have any respect for any fence that won't stop a truck, so even if you could get your hands on all that land and tear the fences down (or let the Bison do it) it would still involve some fairly extensive infrastructure projects to keep them out of inconvenient locations.

      I wonder if you could mix Bison and wind farms, or if that would freak them out.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:You can save soil by making soil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's not a lot of free meat. I was marginally enough to support less than 100K Plains Indians.

  11. Bad headline. by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

    The article is not about the US paying farmers, but about farmers refusing to use the program.

    Note, the problem is the poster. but NPR that used a stupid headline.

    Which is a pity because the article is pretty informative, including it's conclusion: The government should be purchasing rather than renting the land. They have the money, it rarely makes sense to rent unimproved land if you can afford to own, and the problem is not going away.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Bad headline. by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The government should be purchasing rather than renting the land.

      The problem is that government-owned land (aside from military bases) is opposed by one of our major political factions. So actually holding own to the purchased land will probably be difficult.

    2. Re:Bad headline. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NPR can no longer do real journalism since Trump has destroyed their budget. Trump did this. He is responsible for the lie in their title.

    3. Re:Bad headline. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that would solve the problem, at least for a while. But I hope you are aware the country, particularly the West, is full of right-wing anti-government groups that claim the government has no right to own land and should give it to ranchers? Because, by some logic of their own, they think they really own the government land.
      The result of the government buying up the land might be a need for a large army to keep it secure!

  12. Mission accomplished by Kohath · · Score: 1

    Washington bureaucrats got paychecks and pensions. Congressmen used other people's money to buy votes. So the 2 main objectives of the program were wildly successful.

    1. Re:Mission accomplished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical right-wing point of view. Not a single word about the purely selfish, purely mercantile farmers who'd rather rape the planet for their own immediate profit than save at least a little piece of it intact for their children and granchildren.

    2. Re:Mission accomplished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 sides of the same problem. Politicians use their power to promote selfish behavior. A non-selfish farmer would be at a competitive disadvantage. How can we change the system to reward sustainable practices instead?

      (I think there's an answer, but waiting for the next election and voting for candidates from the 2 major political parties isn't it)

    3. Re:Mission accomplished by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Yeah, farmers cashed government giveaway checks. They're no more or less selfish than anyone else cashing government giveaway checks. It's all other people's money.

  13. Make it an EPA issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Silicosis is a health hazard of breathing windblow soil. Label the windblow soil as a pollutant and hold the farmer/polluter responsible for its production.

    http://www.lafarge-na.com/MSDS_North_America_English_-_Soil.pdf
    http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/dust-nothing-to-sneeze-at-scientists-say/

  14. Seems like a problem for science? by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

    Anyone with insights as to what could be done to solve this, or why only growing grass and not plowing is the only solution?

    1. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      First question: Plant kudzu everywhere. It's how we stopped it before. The only solution is more plants that hold the soil down, because that's essentially all they do besides converting nutrients into biomass, then dying and turning back into fertile topsoil.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      No-till farming is one possible mitigation. This is where you don't plow up the field between plantings, but rather just drill new seeds directly down into the soil. So the previous season's roots and whatnot hold the soil together while the new season grows. Unfortunately this is "change", and farmers hate change, not to mention they're already heavily invested in expensive machinery that plows. Hydroponics are another good solution, but again, change is scary.

    3. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      You need something to hold the soil together. Plowing breaks up the soil so that wind can blow it away.

      The solutions are:

      1. 1. Don't break up the soil (no-till farming). This is a difficult sell when farmers have spent lots of money on equipment for tilling and you now want them to spend lots of money on equipment for not tilling.
      2. 2. Slow down the wind. You can do this by doing things like planting trees around the farm. The issue here is the significant reduction in farmland (you need more than 1 thin line of trees), as well as wildlife that like living in forests while eating crops.
      3. 3. Put something on the soil you don't harvest, like grass and wildflowers. That's the program in the OP.
      4. 4. Make more soil in places where it has been depleted. You can do this by doing things like letting animals graze on the land for a while. The manure + dirt will produce more soil. The disadvantage here is you can't grow any crops on the land while animals are grazing on it. Also whether you use natural or artificial means to create that soil, the new soil will blow away soon.
    4. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't, however covering the Great Plains in a layer of cellophane isn't very appealing to most people.

    5. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

      So rather than paying for the growing of grass, funds could be used to inform and provide financial incentive to alternative farming methods?
      Seems rather obvious and one can only wonder why it was not mentioned in the article.

      As this concerns land that was not previously used, I'd guess that most investments are in surplus capacity machinery from other fields.

      (Unless you work at a farm shoveling shit your username is seriously missleading).

    6. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      The disadvantage here is you can't grow any crops on the land while animals are grazing on it.

      Sounds like you've got a meat crop to me.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    7. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

      You need something to hold the soil together. Plowing breaks up the soil so that wind can blow it away.

      The solutions are:

      1. 1. Don't break up the soil (no-till farming). This is a difficult sell when farmers have spent lots of money on equipment for tilling and you now want them to spend lots of money on equipment for not tilling.

      But isn't that mainly overcapacity from other investments, as this land hasn't been used for some time?

      2. Slow down the wind. You can do this by doing things like planting trees around the farm. The issue here is the significant reduction in farmland (you need more than 1 thin line of trees), as well as wildlife that like living in forests while eating crops.

      3. Put something on the soil you don't harvest, like grass and wildflowers. That's the program in the OP.

      4. Make more soil in places where it has been depleted. You can do this by doing things like letting animals graze on the land for a while. The manure + dirt will produce more soil. The disadvantage here is you can't grow any crops on the land while animals are grazing on it. Also whether you use natural or artificial means to create that soil, the new soil will blow away soon.

      I was wondering about that last one, as I'd guess that artificial fertalizers would create more soil.

    8. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You crop that meat and you don't get soil any more. Because dead animals don't shit any more, and you need that shit to make the topsoil.

      So you can't harvest that crop of meat.

    9. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      That would be the smart thing to do. Unfortunately, smarts are a scarce commodity in Congress.

    10. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 1

      I don't think you entirely know how animals work.
      See, every year, they make new animals. You eat some of those new ones (mostly the males), and keep some, (mostly the females) and use them to replace the older female animals, maintaining a collection of animals with an average age in the best reproductive range.
      Weirdly, this tends to work out well most of the time. In fact, it is possible to do this, and not only eat animals, but increase the number of animals on hand, via careful management!
      In fact, people have been doing this for centuries, with semi-domestic animals such as chickens, sheep, goats, pigs, and cows. Some have even leveraged this technique to develop vast stores of wealth, procured via selling their excess meat animals.
      Of course, doing it in an ecologically sound fashion takes careful planning, but is entirely possible, thanks to centuries of careful study, and the existence of schools devoted to the subject.
      While sadly, some individuals and companies eschew these sound practices in favor of increased profits, public sentiment has been against this, and is slowly adjusting their behavior in recent years, and it is entirely possible that in the coming decades, we will see a shift in their behavior and techniques, probably accompanied by a slight rise in the cost of their products as they back away from unsustainable practices, but the whole of that situation is yet to be seen.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    11. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      But isn't that mainly overcapacity from other investments, as this land hasn't been used for some time?

      When talking about having all (or many) farmers move to no-till farming, you're trying to get a far more farmers than signed up for the program in the OP. So it's broader than just the land in this program.

      I was wondering about that last one, as I'd guess that artificial fertalizers would create more soil.

      Soil is a mix of dirt and fine powder-like dirt swarming with microbes. Fertilizers don't produce soil, they make plants grow better when soil is not providing all the nutrients the plant can consume. But if the topsoil is gone, fertilizer can't help. The subsoil doesn't hold water the same way topsoil does, and roots often have a lot more trouble growing.

      To get more soil, you typically need to add more organic matter and microbes, hence the manure from grazing animals. It should be theoretically possible to do something similar through artificial means, but nobody currently does that since animal poop is available in extremely large quantities.

    12. Re:Seems like a problem for science? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you've got a meat crop to me.

      Your typical farmer is a specialist. The ones that grow food crops usually don't have animals, or have a trivial number that more-or-less feed the farmer and their friends.

      So the animals in this scenario are brought in by a rancher, and thus not the farmer's "crop". Because there's cost to transporting the animals to the farm and keeping them there, the farmer isn't going to get much from a grazing fees-style arrangement. At least compared to what they get by growing a crop on the same land.

  15. Major Major's Father by Jodka · · Score: 1

    His specialty was alfalfa, and he made a good thing out of not growing any. The government paid him well for every bushel of alfalfa he did not grow. The more alfalfa he did not grow, the more money the government gave him, and he spent every penny he didn’t earn on new land to increase the amount of alfalfa he did not produce. Major Major’s father worked without rest at not growing alfalfa. On long winter evenings he remained indoors and did not mend harness, and he sprang out of bed at the crack of noon every day just to make certain that the chores would not be done. He invested in land wisely and soon was not growing more alfalfa than any other man in the county. Neighbors sought him out for advice on all subjects, for he had made much money and was therefore wise. “As ye sow, so shall ye reap,” he counseled one and all, and everyone said, “Amen.”

    - Joseph Heller, Catch-22

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une signature.
  16. Soylent Green by mrflash818 · · Score: 1

    ...will be People.

    --
    Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
  17. Shouldn't get paid for not growing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep seeing the world suffering in places from lack of food. Yet we can pay farmers for not growing? I'd rather subsidize them for at least growing something and maybe guaranteeing to make it worth their effort. I live in the midwest and it's ridiculous how much land is idle.

  18. No-till is cheaper for who ? by DanDD · · Score: 2

    Monsanto's glyphosate, along with insecticides, are typically staples of no-till farming.

    Yes, it is cheaper to produce grain with no-till chemical techniques, but what kind of long term damage to society will result?

    --
    "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    1. Re:No-till is cheaper for who ? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      This is why it is so critical to the future of our society (which is dependent, among many other things, on low food prices) to intelligently automate agriculture. We can then grow food in self-supporting guilds and with integrated pest management, but still use machinery to cultivate, harvest, and control pests which are not managed by convenient natural predators. Growing massive monocultures has numerous severe drawbacks, among them the creation of "superflocks" of pests which could not exist without extensive food supplies.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:No-till is cheaper for who ? by LunaticTippy · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't have to use herbicides/pesticides for no-till farming. You can use cover crops, solarization, mulch, there are also organic no-till farms proliferating like um weeds.

      Besides, tilling is so awful for the environment and human health using roundup is probably the greener approach.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    3. Re:No-till is cheaper for who ? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Monsanto's glyphosate

      Glyphosate has been off patent for years, so it is not "Monsanto's". Most RR seeds are also off patent.

      along with insecticides

      No-till does not require more insecticides than plow-based farming.

      what kind of long term damage to society will result?

      Compared to plowing? Much less.

    4. Re:No-till is cheaper for who ? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Last year I visited a research farm near UC Davis. The fields were no-till, and rather than spraying the entire field with glyphosate, the used a targeted applicator and an optical sensor to recognize the weeds and put the herbicide directly onto the leaves. No glyphosate was wasted by spraying it onto the soil or the crop. This cut the need for herbicide by 95%, reducing the cost and the environmental impact. They hope to make the applicator so accurate that it can even be used with crops that have no glyphosate tolerance, since none of it will touch them.

      In a few years, this technology will be common, and plowshares will be melted down to make, well, maybe swords or something.

    5. Re:No-till is cheaper for who ? by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Probably swords yeah.
      I mean what else are we going to fight off the terrorists with?

      --
      I tend to rant.
  19. Those farmers don't know how to farm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are doing it all wrong. They keep tilling the dirt under and spraying pesticides and herbicides which kill all of the beneficial bacterial in the soil and the "weeds" that keep the soil from blowing away. Then they come back and pour more chemical nutrients into the soil because they have killed everything plants need to live that resides in the soil.

    The commercial farmers, while they make a ton of food, will never understand how to farm properly.

  20. Windbreak by vladimir.sakharuk · · Score: 1

    Why could not windbreaks installed everywhere permanently? If you do not chop them you do not need subsidize them every year. Windbreaks worked well everywhere else.

    1. Re:Windbreak by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's a de facto cartel which you could call Big Salad if you wanted to be melodramatic, which is fun. The prepared salad industry (with its indie roots) has been taken over by Big Ag in the usual predictable way. They basically demand that farmers clear around fields so that they don't have deer running around, not least as they have been known to require that whole fields be cleared before they would buy produce that was grown there because animals were spotted running through them. As I mentioned in another comment, this is because they want to pretend that this food is not living material grown under the open sky, so that they can do a half-assed job of inspecting and washing it before they pass it off to the customer. That's why there are semi-frequent cases of frogs (alive or dead, depending on how much time produce spent in shipment) in bags of salad mix.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  21. Farmers my butt, these are corporations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the days of the family farm are gone, a lot of this is just soulless corporate agriculture

  22. Better solution to hungry people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Free vasectomies and tubal ligations.

    1. Re:Better solution to hungry people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. When you feed them, they keep breeding. It is apparently their only hobby. Stop feeding them, and their populations will stabilize. Sterilize and starve.

  23. A little context here by BenBoy · · Score: 1

    For a background on how bad it's gotten (and by extension how bad it can get), this is about the best, most engaging history of the last time I've come across.

  24. If they withdrew the lands from CRP, are we paying by mpercy · · Score: 1

    Either the land is in CPR and not being plowed, but being paid for the conservation effort.

    Or they took the land out of CPR and are no longer being paid, but because they are plowing soil is eroding from wind.

    The headline makes it seem like we're paying them to plow CPR lands.

  25. This really freaks me out by mhollis · · Score: 1

    We have been here before. Timothy Egan wrote a book that I highly recommend called "The Worst Hard Times" that fully describes how the prairie was "mined" for its ability to grow crops—an ability that was created over millennia of the creation of soil by the sod, the plants that were there and by the animals that freely roamed the Great Plains.

    From the book:

    First came the tragedy of settling in an unsettled land encouraged by rising food prices, war, and real-estate speculation. Then came the tragedy of overproduction and the incapacity to sell farm products at a price sufficient to cover the costs of marketing perishable food-stuffs.

    The fact that the Great Depression coincided with this man-made ecological disaster deepened its effect. One of the solutions was to do the agricultural subsidies, that were supposed to cause land to lie fallow for years and build up and protect the soil. What we have is subsidies that are set too low to keep farmers happily accepting them or we have too much greed.

    But here is where this hits me, personally. My father was born in Eastern Kansas in 1931. As a little boy, he was subjected to the recurrent dust storms. Again, from the book:

    Dust clouds boiled up, ten thousand feet or more in the sky, and rolled like moving mountains – a force of their own. Cattle went blind and then suffocated [their] stomachs stuffed with fine sand. Children coughed and gagged, dying of something the doctors called "dust pneumonia.

    My dad's family all got something pulmonologists called "pulmonary fibrosis." One of his sisters died of it. My dad was on a CPAP machine, which is commonly used by people with COPD—smokers who didn't quit and who need oxygen as they get older because their lungs are half-destroyed. He needed the machine to get a good night's sleep. He had a raspy cough all his life.

    Three years ago, my father slipped on some ice and fell and broke six ribs. Now, that's like the "proverbial breaking one's hip" that is a life-changing event for an older person, but they do survive this. My father was in the ICU for 19 days and just could not live. He died on his 83rd birthday and a good 60% of his reason for death was the dust from those storms when he was a young boy.

    This is what we are creating with greed, folks. Mark my words, when the drought comes (and it will with global warming) we will see these dust storms again.

    [I]t hurt, like a swipe of coarse sandpaper on the face

    Here is a link to the book on Amazon. Please note, this is not meant to be an endorsement of Amazon, it is an endorsement of the book and the author's work: The Worst Hard Time: The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl by Timothy Egan

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  26. CRP and property taxes by mhatle · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is another factor not covered. At least in Minnesota there used a be a property tax exemption for land that was under CRP. You would pay a significantly reduced property tax vs farmable land. They removed this exemption about 10 years ago now, and since that as CRP expires farmers would rather farm it, then pay the taxes as if they were farming it -- but without the associated yearly income.

    1. Re:CRP and property taxes by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      People are motivated by incentives.

      I think on the east coast most land is zoned "residential/agricultural" but they also aren't taxing based on the "zone" that they designated it, but instead on the "assessed value" of the land.

      When it doesnt make sense to farm it, ... no farm .. different assessment. If its the same assessment either way... well fuck... that is the state creating slaves .. and not useful ones either

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  27. bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah, bullshit. "Cover crops" worked in the 1800's when corn was planted with a 1 yard spacing. No way you could pay property taxes, much less for seed corn with that now.

    1. Re:bullshit by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      We could do smaller farms and hire flocks of chickens for pest control and help with fertilization (oh hire a few cows too, they can help clear grass on the fallow fields and further help with fertilization)

      seems to have worked pretty well historically; vs essentially strip mining the soil and relying on petroleum for fertilizer.

    2. Re: bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Know how I know you've never seen what happens when cows get through the fence into a field?

    3. Re: bullshit by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      emphasis on the fallow part. idea is to rotate the field (letting cows/whatever graze on it prior to replanting)

      what part of that is wrong?

  28. Umm, no. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Most of that grassland was there in the first place because of a taxpayer-funded program.

    I think most of the grassland was there before taxpayers existed.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  29. Simple solution by PPH · · Score: 1

    Grow less food and feed crops. Turn the land back into grassland and graze cattle. Eat the cattle. Vegetarians BTFO.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      grow less fuel crops...

  30. MAD...A by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Make America Dusty Again

  31. Scam the Government by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 1

    A lot of my family is from the heartland, and according to what i've heard, a big part of the problem is that the CRP program was fraught with fraud from the beginning.
    Land owners who where ostensibly not actually farming would plow up big tracts of their grassland, then apply for CRP, get their money, and then just ignore the land, which let invasive weeds take root in place of native grasses, as well as dust blowing off of newly plowed, and then unused land.
    You can see it yourself traveling through a lot of the great plains, land that is just sort of weedy and barren, and was clearly plowed at some point, and totally ignored now.
    Makes a lot of people in those parts really heated to see the land be abused and wasted that way, when it could have been at least used for cattle grazing, (which would better reflect the bison usage of the plains) but instead got plowed under and ignored.

    --
    I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
  32. carbon emissions by js290 · · Score: 1

    Broad acreage tillage is probably the single biggest contributor to carbon released into the atmosphere.

    "Name one ecosystem that is better off for having agriculture moved into it?" Toby Hemenway http://bit.ly/1pnapoW

    Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - Abundance of Ohio River Valley pre-agriculture (during Jefferson administration). http://bit.ly/1cbC2uU

    --
    "Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
    1. Re:carbon emissions by js290 · · Score: 1
      --
      "Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
  33. learn how to trade stocks for beginners| Step by S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    learn how to trade stocks for beginners| Step by Step Trading Guide There are so many news release every day. If you only look at those important news event, there are still quite a number each week. Which news should you trade and how do you trade it? At takethepips, news http://www.bestearnidea.com/le... http://www.bestearnidea.com/ www.bestearnidea.com