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With Her Blog Post About Toxic Bro-Culture at Uber, Susan Fowler Proved That One Person Can Make a Difference (recode.net)
Kara Swisher, writing for Recode: It was Lao Tzu who said that "the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." In the case of complete and utter change reeling through Uber right now -- culminating in the resignation of its once untouchable CEO Travis Kalanick -- it turns out that it began with one of the most epic blog posts to be written about what happens when a hot company becomes hostage to its increasingly dysfunctional and toxic behaviors. It was clear from the moment you read the 3,000-word post by former engineer Susan Fowler about her time at the car-hailing company that nothing was going to be the same. Titled simply, "Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber," the essay deftly and surgically laid out the map that the media and others would use to prove to its out-to-lunch board and waffling investors that Uber CEO Travis Kalanick had to go. In her account, Fowler was neither mean nor self-righteous, although in reading the story that she laid out about her horrible time there, it would have been completely fair for her to have taken that tone.
In retrospect, it is interesting to see that a reflective blog post from an engineer ended up in the casualties of CEO, most of the senior leadership and a few board members. Maybe the cracks were already there but nevertheless it has been surreal seeing this unfold in the space of 5 months. It is almost like watching the butterfly effect in action.
"If you think you're too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito."
Film at 11.
It's doubtful that Travis was the only problem child at Uber. He probably hired like-minded pals who remain in power there, so this won't be the last we hear of problems at Uber.
But this isn't "bro culture" or "toxic masculinity", he's just an everyday, run-of-the-mill, common asshole. Plenty more where he came from.
slashdot: A failed experiment.
We see 30 articles like this but nothing on the AMD Epyc chip announcement this week.
I think we can safely conclude that Slashdot editors don't care about Technology.
And it's attitudes like this that bring the entire male species into disrepute.
lol when did we have a good reputation?
love is just extroverted narcissism
It was an easy target. Let's see her try that with a real company with real money, not some damn unicorn that barely exists at all. This story is one about the triumph of political correctness, not civil rights.
I would argue she was an asset to the company.
It is now in the process of growing up a bit. It may not make it to grown up, but this was a needed kick in the slats.
emt 377 emt 4
So with all the secret monitoring, law breaking, deal breaking, poor treatment of drivers, driver pay scandals, and a few other scandals made public that I'm forgetting and nothing happens...
1 sexual harassment case though and its like a total nightmare and the ceo steps down... WTF?!
So basically you can lie cheat and steal all you want, just dont have a "bro culture" and its all good!
Although I agree with you that it was an inappropriate comment, I have to wonder if Susan Fowler would have gotten as much attention if she was not a young attractive female? If she was instead older, over weight, with stringy hair and grassy mole on her face, would people have rallied around her, or would just write her off as a stereotypical angry man hating lesbian?
captcha: displays
If Lao Tzu wrote about it, we hardly call this news. We have had many examples of people who made a difference. Even if you do not pay any attention at history, you will know about sports or technics where there are people who made a difference.
Are we supposed to be in awe, because she was a woman, or what?
Yes, sometimes 1 person makes a difference. Most of the time they don't.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
In terms of accounting employees are both. Calling someone who is suffering from an injustice a snowflake is just ignoring the problem. The gender equality in tech is a big problem. These companies are scaring off 50% of the potential workforce due to a bad environment.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Because if it turns out that what she said was not truthful, that would only be another example of SJW-witchhunts of which we have had way too many in the past decade.
No, I am not a friend of Uber at all. While they may shake up (positively) the encrusted taxi market in some countries, in others they have shown that they are unable to play by the rules while still making money. Like in Germany.
No, simple "not interested" was insufficient.
That's usually how it works, with guys like that. The world would be a much better place if "bros" didn't take the word No to mean "your penis is tiny".
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
She already works at Stripe and would be happily hired by any company that isn't run by a bunch of sexual predators! Suck it, regressives! Hahahahaha!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I'm represented by Verve and InkWell. [susanjfowler.com] And it looks like she's doing the public speaking circuit.
She's an author. I know this is shocking for some people on Slashdot, but she has a personal brand that exists independently of her tech job.
But, I have to agree with the GP, she's not going be hired by anyone ever.
According to her blog post, she left Uber and works at Stripe.
The HR software used these days will catch it and her application would be deleted.
I was out of work for two years, underemployed for six months, and filed for chapter seven bankruptcy in 2011. During that time I was told repeatedly by recruiters that I was "unemployable." The day after my bankruptcy got finalized, I had a new full-time job. The opinions of recruiters and HR software are overrated.
Mmm yes, delicious regressive tears, this is what I came here for! Now I can leave satisfied.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Of course not.
And young attractive females have always had an easy time âmaking a differenceâ: allegations of sexual improprieties against men have often been fatal to the careers of those men, or simply fatal when the abuser was a white woman and the male was black.
The idea that this is some newly developed superpower by women is not just laughably historically ignorant, it is offensive.
No, simple "not interested" was insufficient.
Sweet Jesus, you wouldn't work for our company *ever*. What kind of shithole employs you? Anybody?
I don't respond to AC's.
My wife works in the medical industry and more or less ignores what happens in technology. However this entire time with news stories on NPR and the nightly news she was firmly against 'bro-culture' and sexism in technology.
When the Uber Miami Memo leaked I showed it to her as 'evidence' for the toxic, misogynistic, bro-culture that was everywhere. She read it through twice and then came back with, "Ok, so where's the sexism that people are complaining about?". Every single thing in there she thought was completely reasonable. ("Don't have sex with someone that is above you or in the same group.", "Don't do drugs".)
There is a narrative that a lot of people are pushing and a lot of other people are onboard with defending without sitting down and listening to what some individuals consider offensive and toxic.
DYAC. abuser should be accuser
I'd like to think that after this (the CEO ouster, etc.) they'd think twice about retaining employees who sexual harass co-workers.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Michael Knight would be proud!
Well, okay, "person", not "man", but yeah, same thing. "Person" sounds very awkward in that context somehow. English needs to learn from these other languages that have gender-neutral pronouns that we can use to keep from offending the overly-sensitive. Otherwise it seems so forced when we have to force nouns into pronoun duties.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
I think this is way too premature. She was complaining about the bro-culture. It still is a bro-culture. Firing a CEO is a nice consequence, but it is no where near a solution.
If I had to guess, I'd say that in one year, everything will revert back to the same.
As an aging fat white male, you have no power, so they can fire your ass easily if you misbehave.
I'm more likely get someone else fired for misbehaving because I document everything. Documentation is powerful.
That manager simply should reconsider if having 'an open relationship' is the right thing for him. ... if we had laws/rulings like in the US, they never had married,
And using company chat, that isprobably recorded, to hook up is a bit embarassing anyway.
I definitely would not like it if a coworker is sitting with me at my place and sees 'dirty chat' in my messanger 'by accident'.
On the other hand again: We europeans don't get why america is so prude that approaching one you like at work is considered harmful. In Germany abiut 30% of the married couples meet at work
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Ease off, Travis, you'll be a CEO again. Don't worry.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
That doesn't bother me much. I'm becoming kind of a fan of Trump these days.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
You must travel in strange circles. My efforts and contributions to having children have never been reviled. Except that time my mum caught me practising.
On the other hand my wife's some of my wife's contributions deserve plenty more respect than mine - she was the one who suffered through 9 months of pregnancy (plus long term effects) and pushed giant meatsacks out her twat.
God, I'm such a sucker for a trolling.
I do not agree. They bring one AC in disrepute and that is it. People that generalize unsophisticated statement like that to a whole gender are not better than the one that just made that statement.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Also, when did we become a species?
Since forever.
3. Logic.
One of the classes of things included with other classes in a genus.
The set of things within one of these classes.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Last time I looked, male was a sex.
Why? Simple: because I don't want to run the risk that she accuses me of sexual harassment. Evidently, the burden of proof is very low, and there is no recourse for the accused.
I don't think potential means what you think it means.
Well, probably. If I had to walk on egg shells about what and how I say, I definitely wouldn't want to work at your company. The one I work at - there are no power games, no backstabbing, no snitching, no underhanded tactics, if you screw up you'll get an earful, but if the customer fucked up, you may feel safe the boss won't try to throw you under the bus to retain the business relationship. And if you tell a rude joke, nobody gets offended because we don't hire whiny assholes.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
You are a buffoon, and a fraudulent blow-hard, who could not engineer his way out of a wet paper bag, even armed with a skill knife and a pair of scissors.
Not sure why everyone keeps mistaking me for an engineer. Not everyone in IT is in engineering or management.
Really? Are you okay with a management person hitting on and otherwise making uncomfortable one of your coworkers with whom you might actually depend on and have a good working relationship?
love is just extroverted narcissism
Now go fraudulently bill more hours to your employer for doing janitorial work.
Someone has to clean up after the engineers. I once spent a week at Google taking out the trash after the network engineers got finished building out a data center.
He wildly over-reacts to the slightest criticism because he has zero self-esteem.
ROFL
You are a monkey-drone who acts like he is something far bigger and better than he really is.
That's a problem because...?
... found no actual evidence of her claims.
Citation needed.
No, simple "not interested" was insufficient.
A manager should not be hitting on his subordinates in a professional setting. That applies even more on the first day when the people don't even know each other.
And then there's the unwarranted details about his sex life, which can earn disciplinary action regardless of supervisor/subordinate status.
In most places, that's an automatic trip to HR. Where I work, it's likely an immediate termination unless his manager wants to fight for him.
In other words: "I expected they would fire him and promote me to his position."
I see you saying that. I don't see her or anyone else saying it.
The standard expectation is that the offender will be educated by HR on what constitutes appropriate behavior.
Repeated or egregious violations may result in termination, but only the strictest employers will terminate on the first offense. Mine probably would, but I expect most places would just make him knock it off.
So the shitstorm began, and... now HR will think twice before employing a female engineer.
Nope. Not at all.
I doubt this incident will change many minds. The places that want to be clean-cut and professional will remain so, and the places that accept locker room behavior or "bar talk" will continue to do.
The places that break the law and allow illegal sexual harassment will simply stop doing that.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
So because the people of Salem executed a bunch of witches, there must have been witches in Salem? Sorry, I have no basis on which to judge the truth of her allegations.
And it doesn't matter anyway. I consider the professional response to a bad working environment to quit, not to file lawsuits or write revenge posts. Even if her allegations are true, she is not the kind of person I would want to work with.
Yes, those people are called "janitorial staff."
The janitorial staff are the people who pick up the cardboard boxes, garbage bags and waste baskets left out in the hallway. They don't do port mapping, pulling decommissioned servers or removing 100' network cables from the overhead tray because 10' cables weren't available.
And it's attitudes like this that bring the entire male species into disrepute.
If Silicon Valley males were a species, then the local women would be unable to mate with them and their tribe would expand only through recruitment.
Oh wait --
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Why do you do that?
You want to insult me? Fine. I reserve the right to drive you nuts — or ignore you.
Isn't that abuse? And a violation of this site's TOS?
Complain to management.
As well as a violation of your own "personal brand"?
In what way?
So, your personal brand includes the fact that you abuse other users of sites you frequent?
That you think Slashdot matters in the real world is cute.
It seemed to matter enough to complain to the FBI about some imaginary revenge?
I explained this yesterday. I'm not going to explain it again.
And for making imaginary ad revenue?
All the way to the bank.
I work in The Netherlands and German culture is about the same, in respectable companies. That manager would have been in quite serious trouble in almost any company I have ever worked for, and as consultant I worked at quite a few.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
So... show me on the doll where the bad gay touched you.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
Well if you're running the risk of a harassment complaint then you're pulling the kind of shit like proposition female subordinates on day 1. I dare say then she wouldn't want to work with you either.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Given concepts like microaggressions and white male privilege, she may well think she is telling the truth even though she isn't. I really don't care.
She has the power to destroy men simply with a word, making her more dangerous than someone pointing a loaded gun at me. And she is bound to despise me for my political views. Hence, I consider her unsafe to be around.
She wanted power? She got it. Now she has to deal with the consequences.
Yes, in my worldview, it is called that. I also call it profoundly stupid, because many men will not want to work with her for the same reason I don't.
She was hired by another company like a week or so after she left, dumbass. Do you bother paying attention to such important things like this or do you just cherry-pick a few statements and then refuse to do any critical thinking upon those statements before spouting off shit?
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06...
Do what? You just fire a bunch of people when you investigate them without proof?
Uber had the ability to track just about anyone using their service, including their own employees (which prolly got free rides on Uber's wallet.) They could correlate times of claims with location data of both victim and accused in the cases of stalking, after-delivery following, etc.
You might want to open your ears a bit more and use some common sense, assuming you have any.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not bloody likely, since she lacks a functioning penis, testicles, and a beard, attributes I consider essential for any sort of proposition. Nor would I proposition a Hillary voter or a progressive, two attributes she likely has and that I find quite ugly.
Yet, instead of quietly leaving "toxic bro companies" like the rest of us do, she apparently insists that every company under the sun conforms to her preferences
The idea that this is some newly developed superpower by women is not just laughably historically ignorant, it is offensive.
Historically, do you think more women have harmed men with false allegations, or more men have harmed women with actual abuse?
How about today? Do you think it's more common that women allege abuse, or that abuse against women occurs?
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
It's true. When it's time to pass some shit, people start wanting the assholes back.
And she thanks you for that.
You're comparing Uber to the Puritans? That's a new view of the story, I must say.
Not bloody likely, since she lacks a functioning penis,
You see where I said "shit like hitting on female subordinates on day 1", well guess what bucko, hitting on male subordinates on day 1 is very much shit like hitting on female ones. The fact that you don't really seem to understand what is poor behaviour means that maybe you're right: you would risk complaints from co-workers at any reasonable company.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
What does that even mean? If that's meant to be an insult then this is for you -
*golf clap*
If I'm a feminist then I can''t say it bothers me - I got there without trying. I just treat everyone with the respect I feel they deserve. If you're a cunt you get none.
Boohoo - was a woman once nasty to da poor wittle snowflake.
No, I'm comparing social justice warriors to the Puritans.
You're using terms like "harm" and "abuse" for a wide range of ill-defined behaviors subject to shifting moral views, so I don't think that question has an answer.
What I do know is that the idea that women were powerless, fragile little beings subject to the whims of male passion hasn't been true for centuries in the West. Even when women had no political power, unwanted sexual advances by men towards women often had severe consequences for the man, and in many cases, simply the word of the woman was sufficient.
You're using terms like "harm" and "abuse" for a wide range of ill-defined behaviors subject to shifting moral views, so I don't think that question has an answer.
Okay, replace "abuse" with "rape".
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Well, we probably have wildly different ideas of what constitutes "poor behavior". The point is everybody at times believes that someone "behaved poorly" towards them. If you write tell-all blog posts about it, you have to accept that people will avoid you. Ditto if you start lawsuits. No amount of self-righteous indignation is going to change that.
I'm sorry you seem to be a little unfamiliar with gay reality. Gay men learn from childhood on to expect getting fired and getting physically abused if we "hit on" anybody outside a few safe environments. For gay men, "hitting on people at work" is not just "poor behavior", it's dangerous, so we are conditioned from childhood on not to do it. Given the ratio of straight to gay men, it's also pretty pointless. Glad I could clear that up for you.
See, that's the spirit: let people work for the kinds of companies they feel comfortable in and with the kinds of people they feel comfortable with.
If only that view became more widespread among social justice activists.
We were not talking about "rape", we were talking about Fowler's allegations of sexual harassment. And the point is not whether Fowler's accusations of harassment were true or false; the point is that regardless of whether they were true, going public with a blog post (or taking legal action) is going to hurt Fowler. It may not be fair, but life isn't fair and will never be fair.
I wasn't talking about Fowler's allegations. I was talking about the larger context, both historically and now.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
She claimed, apparently with evidence, that her boss hit on her over company chat on her first day. If you don't trust yourself to avoid doing things like that, get therapy.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
As a straight man, I dislike bro culture and want to see it eliminated in the workspace. I further resent the implication that a group of men working together will naturally turn into assholes.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
The point is everybody at times believes that someone "behaved poorly" towards them. If you write tell-all blog posts about it, you have to accept that people will avoid you.
Some people, sure. But it transpires that the people doing the avoiding are precisely the ones that many people would want doing the avoiding. Given she is gainfully employed and became so very rapidly means that the opinions of the pearl-clutching snowflakes really doesn't seem to impact much in the real world.
I'm sorry you seem to be a little unfamiliar with gay reality. Gay men learn from childhood on to expect getting fired and getting physically abused if we "hit on" anybody outside a few safe environments.
So what's your point then, apart from simply trying to sound clever and failing? Would you or would you not hit on subordinates on day 1? If not, they you're making a wretched fuss about nothing because you're not doing that kind of thing at any rate which gets people reported to HR.
Look it's simple: do skeezy shit, get reported. If you can steer clear then you're fine. If you read the list of behaviours she wrote about and worry you might get reported then congratulations, you're doing skeezy shit and deserve to be reported. If you're not then you're being way, way oversensitive.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
The only thing you made clear is that you're trying to avoid the point I made by picking nits that don't exist.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Yes, and she obviously was unable to handle the situation professionally. It's toxic, immature, millennial femininity running smack into toxic, immature, millennial masculinity. It's what San Francisco, Berkeley, and companies like Uber are all about. Hand me the popcorn.
Yes, that's quite simple... if you're an immature millennial who thinks that professional life still works like high school. Obviously, both Fowler and her bosses are those kinds of people.
True: adult professionals avoid places like Uber, and immature kids who work at places like Uber and Stripe wouldn't cut it in a professional, adult environment.
So am I. I think people underestimate how much power women have had historically and how strong social prohibitions were against rape and harassment. And I think women in the US today are the most safe, protected, and privileged they have ever been in recorded history.
Yes, that's quite simple... if you're an immature millennial who thinks that professional life still works like high school. Obviously, both Fowler and her bosses are those kinds of people.
So what you are saying is that professional life does work in the sort of way you claim high school works, but I'm an immature millennial for not ignoring that? Whut.
True: adult professionals avoid places like Uber, and immature kids who work at places like Uber and Stripe wouldn't cut it in a professional, adult environment.
Quite: they'd get their asses fired much quicker for that sort of harrassy behaviour. So yeah, if you're worried about complaints then pretty much your only choice is to work somewhere immature like Uber that routinely ignores them.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Well, and Uber is where Fowler chose to work, QED.
You do have the most incredible double standards. You say "QED" as if she knew what she was getting into, but on the other hand refuse to believe anything any woman says ever that things might be bad.
So which is it? Are the women telling the truth so Fowler knew, or are women all liars and so Fowler didn't know?
Can't have it both ways :)
SJW n. One who posts facts.
How could she not know? Uber had been repeatedly accused of, and even sued for, sexual harassment before she started working there.
Of course I believe the women: men made unwanted sexual advances towards them and the women reacted to it in typically female ways. And then white knight heterosexual males like you ride in defense of the women. It's all so predictable, hormone driven, and immature. You all need to grow up.
Right so your point is that (a) the women are telling the truth and (b) you're afraid they'll acccuse you. You are literally copping to being a harasser.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
No, what I am afraid of people will lob around suspicions of me being a harasser with zero evidence, merely based on differing political views and disapproval of the behavior of the women. Just like you are doing.
Thanks for demonstrating so nicely what we are talking about. That is why people with your kinds of political views are best avoided, whether you have a dick or not.
No, what I am afraid of people will lob around suspicions of me being a harasser with zero evidence, merely based on differing political views and disapproval of the behavior of the women. Just like you are doing.
Except there's plenty of evidence for Fowler's accusations. And you're here on a story about a claim with tons of evidence clutching your pearls over the idea that you too might have accusations made against you and lose your job.
So either your post is utterly nonsensical and you've just picked a random topic to rant on or you're in the same ituation about uber and worried you might have to face the consequences.
So sure, if you concede that your point has nothing to do with the story, then I'll retract my accusation.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
You reason as if there were a bad bunch of men and if you only punish and ostracize them enough then things will be alright for women. It won't, any more than affordable housing programs in Silicon Valley make housing affordable, or high taxes in San Francisco reduce income inequality, or inner city gun control reduces homicide rates, or Planned Parenthood reduces single parenthood.
Like anybody with skills, I don't worry about losing my job. I worry about wasting my time and effort on a company that spirals down the social justice drain because the men can't keep it in their pants and the women form their mean girl cliques.
You reason as if ...
I see you've reached the "inventing shit" stage of the argument. Interesting that you adopted this tactic across the board. So, no, I'm not arguing about that. No I don't think it will fix those unrelated problems. But giving up in a huff because you can't solve all problems at once is silly.
I worry about wasting my time and effort on a company that spirals down the social justice drain because the men can't keep it in their pants and the women form their mean girl cliques.
So basically, this woman made some now pretty substantiated complaints about Uber but now you're complaining about her on her because according to you, she's formed a mean girl clique. Bro, I gotta say it, you seem to have a real problem with women.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
There is no "now" about it: I have been clear that I find complaining about your prior employer in a public blog unprofessional.
It has nothing to do with gender. I find you as unprofessional as Fowler since you take the same stupid political positions.
There is no "now" about it: I have been clear that I find complaining about your prior employer in a public blog unprofessional.
But your main complaint is that you don't want to be on the recieving end. And you're saying this complaint where the complaint has good evidence backing it up.
The implication is very much that you're worried about people making justified complaints about you because you won't concede that your point is more or less irrelevant.
It has nothing to do with gender.
So you claim.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It would appear that the toxic, immature, masculinity came first. I haven't seen toxic and immature femininity established yet, although I could have overlooked it. Claiming about sexual harassment that actually exists is mature and professional. The professional way to handle that situation is to go to HR, and externally if that fails.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
No, my main point is that I don't want to work with these people, men or women, because they are behaving like immature children, have poor judgment, and are unable to handle conflict maturely. And there is indeed good evidence to back that up.
Neither came first, they simply are part of mammalian biology. Furthermore, the progressive approach seems to be to take biologically female behaviors (like cooperation, risk avoidance, conflict avoidance, negotiation) as the norm and force men to conform, which simply isn't going to work.
Cooperation, conflict avoidance, and negotiation have been part of common culture essentially forever, at least within the band. (We seem to have been evolved to function in groups of roughly 150, and the members have to work together harmoniously.) That's neither male nor female.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Yes, part of. But aggression, hierarchy, and conflict have also been part of common culture essentially forever. They are both necessary. Societies primarily based on cooperation, conflict avoidance, and negotiation can't survive, any more than societies primarily based on aggression, hierarchy, and conflict.
Obviously, individuals of either sex are usually capable of all these behaviors. Nevertheless, some of these behaviors are typically male, others typically female, and that's rooted in biology.
I'm not sure about aggression, hierarchy, and conflict for people in relatively isolated groups of 150 or fewer. Such a group would have real problems with bullies or too much conflict. Aggression will happen between such groups, if they collide, and it happens when groupings exceed 150 by enough.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Using aggression, hierarchy, and conflict doesn't mean physical violence or bullying, it means that people form stable hierarchies and resolve problems quickly and efficiently. Mechanisms like cooperation, negotiation, and conflict-avoidance seem positive, but can be very harmful when they are turned towards undermining the group goals in search of individual gain, which is often how they are used.
The confusion you exhibit between aggression/conflict and violence/bullying is really indicative of the root of the problem. Rather than channeling male traits like aggression and conflict-seeking towards something positive, these days, we are just trying to suppress them. I think the dominance of the educational system by women is partly responsible. In any case, it's just not going to work.
Male aggressiveness, conflict-seeking, dominance hierarchies, and sexuality are an essential part of human nature, just like their female counterparts, and trying to repress or eliminate them is simply not going to work. And that also means that typical men and typical women are not just interchangeable cogs in a social machine, it means that there will be male dominated parts of society and female dominated parts of society.
I'm not at all convinced that we had stable hierarchies in small bands, and such bands did resolve problems sufficiently quickly (or they died; there's really not that much room for major mistakes in a band that size). I need to do more reading on it. Hierarchies do form with larger groups. Stable hierarchies can be good or bad, and can be better or worse at rapid efficient problem-solving than a looser organization. The more successful modern armies, which are poster children for stable hierarchies, emphasize decision-making and problem-solving at low levels in the hierarchy.
I was responding to your claims that behaviors have been suppressed. I haven't seen where aggression and conflict and hierarchies are suppressed, other than their more physical forms. I have worked primarily in smaller businesses, where people aggressively pursue goals, there's conflicts that are necessary for efficiency and managed to not get destructive, and hierarchies. Currently, I have four or five direct superiors, depending on how a new leadership position shakes out.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
And I didn't say that we had permanent stable hierarchies in small bands.
You have veered from interaction styles and behaviors to ways of pursuing goals. In any case, it's likely that you work in a male-dominated business, don't you?
I didn't say that they "have been suppressed", I am saying that feminists and progressives are complaining that they are not being suppressed more and are arguing for organizing business, politics, and society more on cooperative, non-aggressive, non-hierarchical interactions.
Coming back to the origin of this thread, if a VC were to ask me for a blowjob in return for funding (I should be so lucky), I might laugh, I might take him up on his offer, or I might slap him in the face and walk out. Six months later, I would barely remember or care no matter which choice I made. That's typically male behavior.
I wouldn't gang up on him with a bunch of other "victims" months or years later and turn this into a public shaming; that's a typically female behavior (cooperation, conflict-avoidance, non-aggression), and it's ineffective in changing male behavior, in addition to being unprofessional and harmful to the business.
Which is why, as I said, I wouldn't want to work with either the men or the women involved in these incidents.
You're claiming that certain things are inherent to people, and I'm pointing out that, for most of our evolutionary life, we didn't do those things much if at all.
You would remember if the VC denied funding specifically because you didn't blow him. I'd guess that most straight men would be unhappy about feeling forced into giving a blow job, and so if you're part of the majority you would remember and resent the blow job. It's never happened to me, and I've never observed it, despite working in a male-dominated profession all my life. I've had the occasional "suck my dick" response in private life, but that was obviously never even intended as an invitation, just ordinary rudeness.
What else are they to do? One entrepeneur saying things about one venture capitalist is going to be scoffed at at best. It is necessary to amass other witnesses. That's cooperation in reaching a goal, forcing conflict at the right time, and aggression, and that's standard practice in an army. Armies are not organized and trained on the lines of typical female behavior that isn't also typical male behavior.
A venture capitalist is entrusted with a lot of other people's money to invest, and so asking for any special personal treatment before handing out money is unprofessional to begin with. It's also difficult to find VCs who do that without complaints from the people getting the inappropriate requests, and the business environment tends to suppress complaints. Unfortunately, I don't know of any more professional way to deal with this unprofessional behavior. Harmful to what business? If the VC business is investing in companies for reasons other than that they look like good prospects, that's harmful to the VC business, and it's good to get it stopped. Push hard enough at such unprofessional behavior, and it will have an effect. MADD made drunk driving a lot less socially acceptable, to give an example.
I'm just fine working with women who will turn on me if I ask for sex from a position of power, because I'm not going to do that.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Nobody is "forced" to do anything. If a VC asks me to give him a blowjob, he is telling me first and foremost "your proposal is so mediocre/bad that I don't care risking losing it".
And it's those "other people" that are harmed and can figure out how to deal with it.
And, what do you know, that's what free markets accomplish: they separate bad investors from their money. Your concern trolling isn't needed.
Sure, the effect being mostly that men walk on eggshells around women and give them favorable treatment just so that they can't possibly be accused of any wrongdoing.
And you very much deserve each other.
You seem awfully unconcerned that somebody is handing over other people's money in large quantities in exchange for sexual favors. The VC firm is well served by having that behavior reported with strong evidence ASAP. Investors have to put a certain amount of trust into the firm they're investing in, and should not have to be responsible for guarding against quiet corruption.
You are probably correct in that, if your application was answered by a request for a blow job, the VC would be dismissing you. This isn't nearly as certain for a female applicant.
Nor are we talking about any great care with women here. In this case, it was a matter of someone in a position of power over the woman asking for sexual favors. If nobody had done that, we wouldn't have had the story here on Slashdot. We have a case of gross misconduct that took quite a few women working together to bring up. If people had acted halfway decently (even if not all the way decently) there would have been no story.
If you can't get that through your head, then it's best that you treat women with caution. Personally, I get along very well with feminists, I don't walk on my tiptoes around women, and I don't get any complaints. There's real advantages to doing things my way.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Not only am I unconcerned, I welcome it: if billionaires foolishly hire harassers to do their investing for them they deserve to lose their money. That's how markets sort out bad investors from good ones. For some unfathomable reason, you want to protect wealthy investors and harassers (and, if you favor non-discrimination laws, wealthy sexists, homophobes, racists, etc.) from the consequences of their own choices by forcing them make better choices.
When I go to a car dealer and offer money for a car, there is no position of power because one valuable item is being exchanged for another one. The fact that you talk about a VC investment as a "position of power" over these women implies that you believe these women's ideas were worthless (and you're probably right).
You don't even get invited to the cocktail parties of the women we're talking about, let alone get to work with them.
True, men like you have been trying to ingratiate themselves to women for as long as humans have existed; it's a one of several reproductive strategies.
You treat women with caution by generally agreeing with them. I simply avoid many of them, including the entire VC and founder "community", male or female.
Free markets work best without information asymmetries. If a VC is accepting bribes of whatever sort, the investors should ideally know about it, and then they can make their own decisions. (What they decide isn't my business, but keeping information available is at least a little my business.)
There's lots of car dealers. If you don't get along with one, you can easily get another who will happily sell you a car. The VC and entrepeneur business is different. There's a limited number of VCs. The quality of the ideas doesn't work the way you seem to think. If it's obviously a good idea, chances are that lots of people are already doing it, and that makes it not so good an idea. VCs typically want the occasional big payoff, and for that they have to go for the dubious ideas (including going into an already crowded field - who would have expected Google to unseat Altavista and Lycos?). The really big payoffs will often be from dumb-looking ideas. There is an imbalance of power here.
I haven't been trying to ingratiate myself with women, I've been trying to understand them. Lots of human behavior seems odd and interesting to me. I don't treat women with caution, and I frequently disagree with one or more women. You have the wrong viewpoint here.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes