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Michigan Will Build 25 Self-Driving Trolleys In 2017 (observer.com)
French trolley-maker Navya announced its first manufacturing facility in North America. The company will build a 20,000 square foot facility for the construction of its self-driving trolley, the Arma. "It aims to construct 25 vehicles there this year," reports Observer. "It has 45 vehicles deployed around the world already. These robots have a max speed of about 27 miles per hour, but typically travel more like 12 miles per hour (the speed of a typical bike ride). Each one can transport about 15 people." From the report: The plant will be built in Saline, Michigan, a suburban town just south of Ann Arbor with a population of less than 9,000. The Michigan Economic Development Corporation estimates that the plant will support 50 new jobs. "As the greater Ann Arbor area continues to establish itself as a hub for autonomous vehicle development, we feel it's the perfect location for us. Strong government and community support for mobility initiatives combined with an excellent talent pool provide the ideal environment for our expansion in North America," Navya CEO Christophe Sapet said in a press release. "I have no doubt that they will become an important and valued member of our already stellar business community," Brian Marl, Saline's mayor, said in a release.
Who's responsibility will it be if someone gets hurt? So there will be no human operator to ensure if the automation fails that no one gets, for example, ran over?
Sorry for growing up in the wrong hemisphere but I'm just confused by the American usage of the word 'trolley'.
It just looks like a 'mini-bus' to me.
The same reason Henry Ford built cars in Michigan: cheap land.
Autonomous driving allows us to put more vehicles in places where they may not be needed, or not very valuable. It could also allow more people to use a vehicle, and will likely create more uses like overnight driving (while sleeping in the car) instead of taking a plane, using a car as an office, having cars run errands (pick up) you'd otherwise bundle, etc. In short, it might put many more cars on the road, which will come with a cost of its own. Not saying this is bad overall, but its something that doesn't always get talked about when swooning over self driving tech.
I'm guessing these aren't the type of trolleys you push around the shops.
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^How to make someone miss goatse posts. At least they were short.
Wanna buy a shirt?
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Ford built there because of cheap labour. Right next door is Canada, where they work for a small fraction of what an American worker would fetch.
The same Henry Ford who doubled the minimum wage he paid his workers and reduced the work hours from nine to eight?
http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html
I'll bet you defended the elevator operators against automation, too.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I'm guessing these aren't the type of trolleys you push around the shops.
Probably not, but I want an automated trolley next time I buy groceries... that would be pretty cool. Pointless, but cool.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
There is zero gain not using a driver, in fact because of the reduced speeds and limited operational areas there is a lot to lose not having a human at the controls.
This is why the first bus routes which will be replaced with self-driving vans will be on college campuses and the like. The low speed will not inhibit their activity. At some times of day, there are empty (or mostly empty) buses rolling around campuses because they might have to pick up a passenger.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Hi there,
I *knew* D. Elton Trueblood, and I'm pretty sure he would not wish to be connected to any of your nonsense.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
"t could also allow more people to use a vehicle, and will likely create more uses like overnight driving (while sleeping in the car) instead of taking a plane, using a car as an office"
How does that differ in any way from using a human driven taxi?
"having cars run errands (pick up) "
Yeah sure, and they'll do your washing and make you dinner when they get back home too.
I think you know less about Canada than you claim. Labour is not cheap here. ;-)
A lift just goes up and down in its own exclusive shaft. In terms of automation its a trivial task that can be implemented with simple relays and solenoids, never mind computers. Driving is not a trivial task and humans still outperform any kind of self driving AI in an unknown crowded enviroment. The only reason to roll this out is to say "Look who cutting edge we are! We've got our finger on the pulse of technology!". Its marketing BS for suckers.
What technological improvement in the last 2000 years doesn't fit that?
"t could also allow more people to use a vehicle, and will likely create more uses like overnight driving (while sleeping in the car) instead of taking a plane, using a car as an office"
How does that differ in any way from using a human driven taxi?
"having cars run errands (pick up) "
Yeah sure, and they'll do your washing and make you dinner when they get back home too.
I suppose it may happen, but I've never seen anyone send a taxi to pick up their laundry or dinner (an errand), and it would be prohibitively expensive to hire a taxi to drive you overnight or for most to work everyday.
You need more than a single driver per vehicle. The driver will operate 40h per week, but your bus service is likely operating something such as 7*16h=112h per week and the bus driver can't drive 8h straight without breaks. Even at minimum wage the cost for 3-4 drivers is pretty significant. Within a single year you be able to get back the extra money required for expensive sensors, compute modules and software.
Out of date also doesn't really matter as long as it can still do its job. This first generation self-driving trolley might only work within environments that are easy to handle and in a few years you might have a second generation trolley that can handle more complex environments and drive faster, but that doesn't mean that first gen. trolleys cannot continue to fulfil their limited roles.
The speed of a local bus is slow, so limit of 45 km/h is not going to make a significant difference. This could make journey time shorter by increasing the frequency of the buses and thus reducing waiting times. With self-driving buses cities can easily go use a high number of smaller trolleys instead of large buses at a low frequency.
More people would use public transport instead of their own car. While bus drivers will lose their job, new jobs will be created elsewhere, e.g.: When people save money by not owning a car, they will likely spend that money elsewhere, e.g.: eating at restaurants more often.
Jan
"humans still outperform any kind of self driving AI in an unknown crowded enviroment."
Somehow, I don't think that's the target market for 12 mph trolleys. I'm thinking more of airports or other locations where there's a fixed route, and possibly even dedicated lanes in places.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Bus drivers in NYC make $75,000 + not counting benefits.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Modern medicine. Modern food distribution services. Indoor Heating. Water purification. Lion Bars.
I would say all "needs" rather than "because they can". Without any of the above you're quite likely to die a much earlier death... ... well maybe man can live without having Lion Bars- but what pointless dreary existence would that be.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I disagree on the self-driving cars. While it's an extremely difficult (and expensive) technical challenge at this point, it seems to be getting closer to a tipping point. Google is a lot farther a lot faster than I thought they would.
At some point I believe that it will make driving safer overall, that it will both come down in cost and reduce auto insurance rates enough to pay for itself, and that it will provide better mobility options to handicapped or elderly drivers that have difficulty driving (or drivers who make a mistake and get their license suspended). It may even provide health and/or productivity benefits for commuters as well. A number of us suffer from stress-related health issues, and commutes can add a lot of stress to a work day. A number of us have times when we feel the need to work too many hours and not sleep enough, and being able to nap or even just rest our eyes during the commute would be a big help.
"it would be prohibitively expensive to hire a taxi to drive you overnight or for most to work everyday."
What makes you think that when/if automated cars take over from taxis, the fares will be any lower? What would be the incentive once there's a captive market?
>> At some times of day, there are empty (or mostly empty) buses rolling around campuses because they might have to pick up a passenger.
This is also why last-century busses and their static routes should be retired in favor of ride-sharing almost everywhere they exist. A lot of mid-sized cities have already figured this out for elderly and low-income transportation - skipping past the "bus" generation and right to subsidized taxis...er...I mean "ride sharing."
Airports already have shuttle buses and people movers which are far quicker. And if a route is fixed with a reserved ROI then lay some guiderails and ditch the AI.
People don't want to share the cars they've paid good $$$$ for with complete strangers unless there's a very tempting cash advantage. Something the tech evangelists in their silicon valley castles tend to forget.
Trolleys always operate on a fixed route.
"While bus drivers will lose their job, new jobs will be created elsewhere, e.g.: When people save money by not owning a car, they will likely spend that money elsewhere, e.g.: eating at restaurants more often."
I love the way people like you handwavingly dismiss the loss of jobs and pretend they'll be replaced on a 1:1 basis. They won't , and as for working as a waiter in a restaurant, yeah, I'm sure every bus and truck driver just dreams of that stellar position.
There is no advantage to the public transport end user to have self driving vehicles that replace a driver (you think the fares will be lower once there are no alternatives? Think again) The ONLY advantage is to companies who can save the money on wages yet the push this concept as if they're advancing the cutting edge of tech rather than just carrying out more backhanded cost cutting.
"it would be prohibitively expensive to hire a taxi to drive you overnight or for most to work everyday."
What makes you think that when/if automated cars take over from taxis, the fares will be any lower?
I never said they would be. But if you own an autonomous car, I don't think its a stretch to think it would be much cheaper to have it drive you somewhere overnight than to hire a taxi to drive you overnight.
Because the taxi industry currently has high barriers to entry. Autonomous vehicles reduce them. Specifically Taxi drivers have to have rigorous background checks (for good reason), this acts as a huge block. You need to hire someone to drive at undesirable times, another huge block. Thirdly you have to have a vehicle specifically for Taxi driving, another huge block.
Now with an autonomous vehicle and a nice easy app to join.....say....uber.... I can easily start my own taxi business with little to no effort. Say I work a classical 9-5. Maybe I get up a little early and get in to work at 7:45. Send my autonomous car out from 8:00 to 10:30 while doing my day job. I take in a nice $50 + gas and mileage. Now say I want to go out Friday and Saturday night. I can still do that and send my autonomous taxi out while I am out in the bars. If I am lucky maybe my car will pay for my drinks.
The ease of entering the market now with autonomous cars will theoretically push the price of a taxi to the marginal cost
That's probably true vs market rates, but when government employees are driving those buses it's a different story.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Are you just being a troll or do you really not see the obvious scenarios where it would be a cost advantage to eliminate a 50k a year cost(driver) by replacing it with an autonomous vehicle? Or are you proposing we just send the buses down a bumper car bowling lane with no driver? My guess is you see some edge cases in a technology which will prevent it from being useful in very specific situations, but are wasting everyone's time by pretending those edge cases block the application of the technology in every situation.
Beyond that, the majority of the public transportation I take is ummm public.... and owned by the government, who I have exactly 1 share in. Sooo when the government pays less for their drivers, I win.
I'm right with you there - when self-driving is real, I plan on buying my own car.
However, subsidized taxi services for low-income citizens using shared cars/vans are real and (thankfully) growing. Hopefully the bus/trolley trend of the last century is over.
Ford set the hours at 8 because of extensive experimentation on his workers. He targeted the optimum hours to get the most product out of people. He found that working more hours actually reduced net production. It was not altruism, it was a simple realization that if you give your "machines" proper maintenance they function better. The AC's narrative actually fits better with the reality that Ford was a cold yet smart brutal capitalist. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us...
"Here's the part that you just ignore, yes some of those savings will get passed onto end consumers."
Or they'll get pocketed as profit if everyone else does the same.
Please don't leave graft out of the equation: which vendor will get the no-bid contract, and to whom to they donate re-election funds?
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I assumed it meant trolleybus. They're a weird hybrid of a tram and a regular bus.
I've ever actually seen one, I've only heard of them because I had a children's book with one as a character.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
This delusion of language really bothers me. These aren't trolleys, they are simply buses. We've had self-driving trains and trams for ages, that's not such a big deal. They can only go where the tracks take them. The automaton consists of starting, stopping, and presumably automatically detecting obstacles. Not particularly exciting. This disgusting company is just trying to confuse the language to generate buzz for their products.
"valid & clean chauffeur's license or equivalent in that local area, and no felony convictions." Irony. You claim I was wrong, than share your own experience validating my exact statement.
There is zero gain not using a driver,
I guess that depends on where you live. In Paris, when the Metro drivers go on strike -- and I do mean when, not if -- the Metro lines that are automated can still run. One of those is Line 1, which connects the business district with the city of Paris and runs parallel to Line A, which is not automated and is the busiest subway line in all of Europe.
Granted, this situation doesn't apply everywhere, but that's kind of the point -- you're concluding that automation can't make sense by excluding the cases where it might. And you'll notice the company building this plant is French, so they likely have a certain point of view themselves (and maybe one that means building a plant in Michigan is a bad idea, but I have no idea what their order pipeline looks like...).
Bingo.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Humans do not change lanes randomly. They do so stupidly, but it isn't random.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
...TRAM.
--
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.