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Cloudflare is the One Tech Company Still Sticking By Neo-Nazi Websites (qz.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: One company is sticking by The Daily Stormer and other far-right websites: the cloud security and performance service Cloudflare. Cloudflare acts as a shield between websites and the outside world, protecting them from hackers and preserving the anonymity of the sites' owners. But Cloudflare is not a hosting service: It does not store website content on its servers. And that fact, as far as the company is concerned, exempts it from judgment over who its clients are -- even if those clients are literally Nazis. In a statement Cloudflare sent to Quartz and other publications yesterday, the company refused to explicitly say it will continue to do business with sites like The Daily Stormer, but pointed out that the content would exist regardless of what Cloudflare does or doesn't do. "Cloudflare is aware of the concerns that have been raised over some sites that have used our network. We find the content on some of these sites repugnant. While our policy is to not comment on any user specifically, we are cooperating with law enforcement in any investigation. Cloudflare is not the host of any website. Cloudflare is a network that provides performance and security services to more than 10% of all Internet requests. Cloudflare terminating any user would not remove their content from the Internet, it would simply make a site slower and more vulnerable to attack."
UPDATE: The Daily Stormer now says Cloudflare has decided to drop their site after all.
UPDATE: The Daily Stormer now says Cloudflare has decided to drop their site after all.
Cool that someone still stands for freedom of speech.
Most people were brainwashed to think that freedom of speech means "freedom to say anything - as long this are the 'good things'".
So, no ethics then? As long as a payment clears, you could care less where the money comes from or where it goes? As long as they don't push it to the point that requires an order or subpoena, oh well? Glad to hear. Also, trying to claim that about only DNS and proxy services is just BS. Great, still puts you business with terrible people and continuing to support their efforts. At least Google had the good mind to kick them, and their track record isn't great. Glad to hear CloudFlare condones racism, personal attacks on innocent victims, and hate speech. Corporate greed and no ethics. They have a big future there.
We're going with that atrocious headline?
Free speech means nothing if it's not applied to everyone, including the most odious. For there is always something you would like that someone else would consider obscene and block.
Let it all through. Let people choose and find their own way.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
All publicity is good publicity.
You are welcome on my lawn.
When does facebook shutter their marketing and profiting from everyone's privacy? And shut down all the antifa or is that gonna get me in trouble here?
I just offended everyone now, but a pox on the offended. No, I don't support any sort of hate speech no matter their political leanings or framings or whatnot. No, none of that.
Instead I remind you of this: "I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It". The internet is a big place and kicking others out just because you disapprove of what they say is exactly the opposite of this quote. Leave them be, let them show themselves to the world. If the world doesn't wisen up to their stupidity, then it'll get everthing it deserves.
Now you know what to do instead of trying to make like the bad words never existed.
Otherwise you're as bad as, oh, China, or Iran, or North Korea, or Russia, or Britain, or Germany, or any other country that has state-run content filters and/or forces ISPs to filter content on any grounds whatsoever.
And shit, now google et alii forced me to defend cloudflare, breakers of the interwebz. A pox on them, too.
From a business perspective, and looking over the long run, this is probably the most sensible move to make.
This could help establish them as a trusted service provider that won't engage in sudden knee-jerk reactions that could have devastating consequences for their customers.
Even if you're not doing anything deemed "wrong" today, you should be concerned when companies providing a critical service have shown themselves willing to suspend a customer's service suddenly.
While the risk of a service provider failing unexpectedly is always present and should always be taken into account, a service provider that commits to impartiality and the avoidance of sudden knee-jerk reactions could very well give it a leg up over its competitors when it comes to choosing a service to use.
If I were choosing a service provider, I would likely not choose any of the ones that have engaged in knee-jerk reactions that could harm their customers. Even if it cost more, or even if there was perhaps less functionality offered, I'd be much more likely to consider a service provider that prioritizes providing high-quality, uninterrupted service over playing political games.
Man, Damore was right that the west coast Techies are all about shame. even if its constitutionally protected speech. I for one applaud CloudFlare while simultaneously giving the Nazis the finger.
"The First Amendment really was designed to protect a debate at the fringes. You don't need the courts to protect speech that everybody agrees with, because that speech will be tolerated. You need a First Amendment to protect speech that people regard as intolerable or outrageous or offensive - because that is when the majority will wield its power to censor or suppress, and we have a First Amendment to prevent the government from doing that."
- ACLU Legal Director Steven Shapiro
It's true that companies are not limited by the First Amendment, but it's refreshing when one acts as if they were.
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
What would Godwin say about a post actually BEING about Nazis? Oh, nevermind...this is what he would say.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
So there's still a large Internet company that believes in freedom of expression?
The Nazi content flows through their servers to my des
Are we going to get an article about how the ACLU is "sticking by Nazis" as well? Just because a company or group doesn't immediately go out of their way to embargo or shut down a group doesn't mean they're in cahoots with them. There is a difference between supporting a group and providing services to that group as part of a general policy of service for all as a matter of principle.
Unfortunately snowflakes will shit themselves in anger until they can make Cloudflare comply.
the company refused to explicitly say it will continue to do business with sites like The Daily Stormer, but pointed out that the content would exist regardless of what Cloudflare does or doesn't do.
While I and probably most of us find the content disgusting and repulsive, I for one am glad Cloudflare is standing up for free speech even they disagree with. This takes real balls. And it's a good thing. Free speech isn't optional. Only listening is optional.
>It's true that companies are not limited by the First Amendment, but it's refreshing when one acts as if they were.
There seems to be some limits. We don't want companies refusing services to gays or muslims or minorities.
There is also limits on companies firing employees who try to unionize or talk about working conditions.
And we don't want them firing pregnant workers or disabled people for no reasons.
Most americans wants some limits to protect people, this includes people who dont agree with.
Pastor Martin Niemöller said it best.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
If we can defend Nazis, we can defend anything!
Show me on the 1st Amendment bobblehead where the moderator touched you...
Article has already "Nazi" in the title. What are we supposed to further trol^H^H^H^Hsay about Cloudflare ?
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https://prism-break.org/en/
Came across this link ages back and bookmarked it - reading your comment, I figured you may find it useful for alternatives to the tech goliaths that everyone uses.
This way people can say whatever they want and no one will get upset, ever.
we have a First Amendment to prevent the government from doing that."
Nice.
Cloudflare is allowing an unfettered "Public Square" on the internet. As much as it sucks, we need calm down and talk this shit out.
The real question is what freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of press all mean in the virtual world. I don't agree with what was said, and I certainly don't agree with any form of censorship regarding speech. I really would like to see some of these cases make their way up to the supreme court to reaffirm some of the rights which have been diluted over the past 4-5 decades.
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
For those who religiously believe in freedom of speech as some kind of Platonic Ideal, they should remember that fascists oppose it once they gain power. Personally, I am highly suspect of anyone who rigidly follows any kind of absolute ideological position to the bitter end, regardless of what it may be.
They'll take ANYONE's money. Nuff' said.
At least someone is standing by Free Speech. Go to Hell Snowflakes.
Maybe companies should be limited by the first amendment, at least as part of the deal for their common carrier status. or other 'neutral' provider status in case of other services.
Core of the idea: you cannot claim that you are not responsible for how, and by whom, your service is used, while at the same time controlling who is using it and how.
these are _literal_ Nazis. This is calling a spade a spade.
/. for at least a year. You know all this. Are you trolling or cherry picking your facts to preserve your own world view?
If they wanted to advocate for something peaceful they could do so without flying Swastikas. By calling themselves Nazis and flying their colors they automatically imply their intention to act violently because _Nazis_solve_their_problems_with_violence_! This is not up for debate. You might just as well argue grass is blue and the sky green. Hell, you'd have a better chance of proving that because at least color on some level is subjective. The only way you can argue that Nazis are non-violent is if you're arguing against facts from the get go.
Also, when the hell has the left ever argued against free speech? Go Daddy not doing business with Nazis is as much a freedom issue for them as it is for the Nazis. It only becomes a free speech issue when access to _government_ services is denied. And so far as I know it has not.
You and your goofy sig have been on
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
See subject: George Soros is caught YET AGAIN sponsoring or being connected to these seditious traitor groups https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnwJRvPXE-I/ & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa0YrFIrXM8/ & also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irlXfouo5Gs/
* This is even MORE than "truth" (can be purely relative based on feelings or perception) - THOSE LINKS ARE FACT!
APK
P.S.=> Want someone to blame? George Soros (the man who said he was a GOD & even sold HIS OWN FELLOW JEWS into Hitler's grasp) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZhIrYxOQsI/ looking to get us all to KILL ONE ANOTHER (classic "divide & conquer") - Soros has outright STATED he wants to collapse the USA (it's in the globalist's way, as are ALL Christian OR constitutionally based republics) & it's NOT like he hasn't knocked currencies (thailand), and even the bank of england, over - even ISRAEL the nation even HAS OUTRIGHT CONDEMNED HIM as well as his own home nation Hungary... apk
...sticking by neo-Nazis.
Sticking by neo-Nazis.
The ACLU is sticking by neo-Nazis.
They must be in league with them.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
There seems to be some limits. We don't want companies refusing services to gays or muslims or minorities.
I think the free market takes care of that problem. It's just bad business to refuse potential customers. You can get away with it to some degree if that particular group you're refusing service to is small and no one else cares about them at all, but that's hardly the case. If a business refused service to gays or Muslims (both small groups in the U.S.) they don't just lose those customers, they also lose any customers who disagree with their policy of refusing those customers. You can't on one hand complain about the prevalence of social justice activists, but then also suggest that none exist to vote with their wallets. But the reverse is true just as well. You can't think that people who want to make social change are incapable of influencing the market.
In the past one of the biggest arguments against this notion was that it's difficult for people to have the kind of information to make these informed decisions, but in today's world it's almost the opposite. We have so much information and a lot of it coming at us faster than we can process. We're practically drowning in it and it's almost necessary to spend more time filtering and evaluating that information than it is finding or accessing it.
You can't really legislate morality though, which I feel all of this is an attempt to do and only just wastes time. You probably don't have to look very hard to find a club that bans certain kinds of dress, which is just a contrived way of saying "no blacks". If someone really wants to keep a certain group of people away, they'll find a legal means of doing so, because the law cannot be proactive enough to prevent such from happening without being outright tyrannical. It's better to just let racists, anti-semites, and other bigots be themselves and to exercise your own free choice to not do business with them. In a world of things like Yelp it's pretty easy to get information even if you're in a new place and don't know any of the people or the local establishments.
even if those clients are literally Nazis
Can we just get these sniveling children off of Slashdot? I don't care what feelings of yours are hurt about who knows what retarded insult you've invented today. This has nothing to do with news for nerds. This is news for fags and whining bitches.
You need to be protected from government, not from private companies. One of the social consequences of speech is that people won't help you spread it. You're arguing that one of the roles of government should be to force companies to provide the platform and voice to speakers.
That's wrong.
Niemöller wasn't talking about censorship. He was talking about NAZIS arresting and killing people. Abusing that quote to defend actual NAZIS is just mind-boggling.
The more Nazi's talked in public, the more they were pitied. That reduced their support by far a greater amount than any other tactic.
Let the Muslim wanna be conquerors talk outloud and watch their communities run a mile from them too. Free speech has fixed more problems quicker than a thousand social science campaigns.
Snowflake, do you really think all those other companies that cover your eyes and ears for you are âoeon the side of goodâ?! Get real, they value their profit margin above all.
Last I looked thepiratebay.org only had one ISP https://www.robtex.com/dns-loo... one of many that we have a right to.
A post rather than a reply - an attempt at a shot out to cloudflare and a thank you for your service.
Bandwagon effect is easy to summon against nazis.
You are being manipulated emotionally.
It's still hatred if the left does it.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
You mean like George Soros, the one that's bankrolling the leftist groups - in Berkeley, Charlottesville, and other places?
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Why do socialists and communists get a free pass in these discussions? If you are going to talk about kicking totalitarians off the net, do it for all of them: Nazis, communists, and socialists.
If you editorialize content then you can not take advantage of the DMCA safe harbor provision.
If Cloudflare or other companies censor user submitted content, such as hosted files, then they are editorializing content and are not able to take advantage of the DMCA safe harbor which protects hosts from being liable for the content their users upload. Hosts are free to remove and delete child porn and a few other illegal things without tripping the editorializing definition of DMCA provisions, but editorializing content that is otherwise not illegal, especially that which is protected under the 1st amendment, voids DMCA safe harbor provisions and then the host becomes legally liable for all content it hosts.
TL;DR: If you editorialize some content, you have to editorialize it all.
Governments would rather hosts be liable for all content so that they would be more restrictive about what they accept; Make business do their job for them, why not? The left is helping bring draconian censorship to the web, as this is required for any communist regime change to be successful. "I'll attack you if you can't say mean things", is their modus operandi to bring about this change. Their plan to create self censorship went so well, the next stage is strict censorship from business, and that means voiding the DCMA safe harbor provisions and enacting panels of moderators to approve comments. The useful idiots manipulated into feeling based frameworks probably don't even realize how they're being used; They'll be silenced right after the Nazis; All it will take is a resurgence of apparently left wing bombings ala 60's to 80's and suddenly the radical left will be silenced -- the majority is fed up with them anyway. I would rather defend the extreme right Nazis right to say ridiculous and mean things that no one listens to than capitulate to the extreme left Feminazis and wind up not be able to say women and men have differences...
dirtbag yellow journalist excessively editorializing by using the "sticking by" phrase to mischaracterize Cloudflare's stance on Freedom of Speech; support of free speech does not mean endorsement of what another says, it means you have the balls to stand on principle even when you find it distasteful; fucking lever-pullers have an easy time keeping the weak-minded distracted, divided and conquerable
Then they came for meâ"and there was no one left to speak for me.
Yep. So let's get those fucking Nazis now, before they come for the Jews like they keep saying they're going to.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There is a paradox with the First Amendment: it protects freedom of speech against the government, but when most of the speech goes through private companies, the protection does not apply and it is subject to TOS or contract. ...
The paradox is less government means usually more freedom, but in this case, because of the restriction of the First Amendment, it means less freedom here.
I think the First Amendment should be applied to all contracts or TOS:web hosting, blogs, forums,
The logical is : the more we know about the freaks, the more we can reject them. Censorship is 90% of the time an insult to our intelligence and 10% of the time hiding the truth.
I say that but as a European, I know that we are very far from today First Amendment.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm amused by how stupid such extremists sound, but discouraged to see the extremists patting each other on the back with "insightful" mods for such garbage.
I'll bet you don't understand how funny AND insightful it would be if I had an opportunity to shout "Fire!" when you [SuperKendall] are attending a crowded theater. Of course, there will be no fire, but it will be double funny if you get trampled to death.
My sig says enough about the confusion surrounding freedom.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
How about blackhat hackers? 2600.net? TPB?
No.
This is purely a stunt and they're wanting to show tough for marketing purposes. But if there were significant financial reason to block doing business with them, they'll drop it in a second.
Their excuse is also ridiculous and unsupporting of their case.
They could just say "Because we don't care, it's not our job", but that doesn't let them show tough enough.
The instant cloudflare decides that one group is too much, then they get attacked for allowing groups X, Y, and Z, who are just as bad if not worse, or almost as bad (at which point the slippery slope fallacy becomes a legitimate threat). However, by allowing all groups who do not break the law, they can simply say "Regardless of what we think of their speech, we will respect their right to say it." and dig their heels into the ground.
Cloudflares customers do not represent Cloudflare. If they are providing their services to nazis, nambla, antifa, black panthers, or other groups that I do not agree with the speech of, that's none of my business and I don't give a shit. However if they kick the Klan off for racist speech but leave up the black panthers for functionally identical speech, that is when I will take issue.
Free speech doesn't mean a right to use commercial services. Period. Those people are still able to spout off about whatever they want, they just can't pour it into everyone's ears over the Internet without cost or qualification. Same bollocks as "money is speech" and "corporations are people". Prats, all of you.
Perhaps CloudFlare can look into the future a little bit and realized that a lawsuit against them for violating First Amendment rights would likely not fall in their favor.
This whole " hate speech " phenomenon will implode the moment this reaches the Supreme Court.
The Amendment itself is pretty clear about it: "abridging the freedom of speech" being the relevant part here.
The simple version is you can't make unpopular speech / ideas illegal.
You may not like what others have to say, but you have to allow them to say it.
You hit the nail on the head, though. Government, not industry.
So Cloud Flare believes in "freedom of speech" for assholes like Nazis?
Good. Because if you don't believe in freedom of speech for assholes, you don't believe in it at all.
Nothing in this world is free - CloudFlare offers their service for free at the basic level, which means to make money they data mine.
CloudFlare adds tracking cookies to sites they serve. All the data passes through them using a CloudFlare issued SSL, they an authorized man in the middle. They can literally see, in plain text, any data passing through their service. Even on the paid plans where the destination site can provide their own SSL means that CloudFlare is given the ability to decrypt the traffic.
There is probably more value to them and law enforcement agencies to leave the service up so they can intercept all the traffic from their users to build cases against the site and it's users
Why isn't there pressure to remove BLM, radical Islam, Marxist, and socialist content?
Answer: because conservatives are OK with their being people who disagree with them.
Liberals are NOT OK with there being people who disagree with them.
American gulags are not far away.
You probably don't have to look very hard to find a club that bans certain kinds of dress, which is just a contrived way of saying "no blacks".
Forgive me, I couldn't help picking this nit. What article of clothing are black people incapable of wearing, yet everyone else can? I just can't follow the logic that gets you from "dress code" to "no blacks".
Give a separate country to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and save yourself from http://www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10...
Casteism