Slashdot Mirror
Germany, in a First, Shuts Down Left-Wing Extremist Website (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: An influential website linked to violence at the Group of 20 summit meeting in Hamburg last month has been ordered to shut down, in the first such move against left-wing extremists in the country (alternative source), the authorities in Germany said on Friday. Thomas de Maiziere, the interior minister, said that the unrest in Hamburg, during which more than 20,000 police officers were deployed and more than 400 people arrested or detained, had been stirred up on the website and showed the "serious consequences" of left-wing extremism. "The prelude to the G-20 summit in Hamburg was not the only time that violent actions and attacks on infrastructural facilities were mobilized on linksunten.indymedia," he said, referring to the website. The order on Friday was the latest move in a long battle against extremism in Germany. It comes in the wake of the violence in Charlottesville, Va., this month and amid worries about "antifa" factions that use violence to combat the far-right in the United States.
Why we must protect freedom of political speech in the US. Fortunately we have strong laws to do this. Google and Facebook should not be the arbiters of speech. Universities should not live in fear of letting people talk.
We do not want to hand the power they have in Germany to silence people to a man like Trump, or anyone who claims to be a fascist or anti-fascist (aka, communist)
You stop them from breaking the law.
This is just bass ackwards.
Isn't someone's political ideology separate from how they achieve it? Anyone that uses violence to politically motivate, whether it be left-wing or right-wing, is what is being contained.
To hedge off the first round of comments:
1) Yes, I will admit that some sects of ideology are more prone to using such tactics but these exist everywhere on the political spectrum.
2) No, this doesn't mean we should or shouldn't tolerate an idea. It is that we should consider how a group is trying to influence change. If it is sitting in someone's basement minding their own business should we care? Probably not. If it is setting fires to buildings? Yeah, I care almost no matter what the purpose.
Good. Every large group has it's version of Soccer Hooligans. The left is no different. The difference is (as Noam Chomsky noted) the Right is _much_ better at violence than the Left. Their love of strong authority figures means they can organize better and they've got more ex-military guys. The Left can win on issues because our policies work. But we can't win on violence because, well, we're not nearly as violent (and yes, that's probably a slightly controversial idea, but that doesn't make it less true).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I'm a big believer in free speech and all that, but I am glad that Germany is at least applying whatever laws against extremist speech they have to both sides equally. Keep in mind though that they have an extensive and fairly recent history of actual left wing terrorism.
It can be hard to tell the fascists and antifascists apart sometimes, in methods, ideology and in appearance. Just how hard it can be was nicely illustrated today in an article on a Dutch left wing (and fairly sympathetic to Antifa) blog about how the altish-rightish FvD party has ties with neo-nazis. The article itself isn't relevant, but it carried a picture of a group of scary looking masked people with red, black and white banners, one of them flashing what at first glance appears to be a nazi salute. That blog could be forgiven for the fact that these are not neo-nazis, but Antifa. You can tell by looking closely at the flags.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Right wing extremist groups are not "propping up everywhere". They only reason they have a platform, and any coverage, of ANY sort... is because the misguided media keeps showing up with their cameras. Left wing extremism is real and it's causing just as many problems, if not more. I don't see Nazi groups destroying property and setting cars on fire over a speech at a college.
Both sides have extremist factions that they ignore, because they like that those extremist factions will do the dirty sh!t that the more "normal" (read: need to get re-elected) people won't do. That is why the president denounced violence on both sides. Problem was, the left isn't used to being called out for such dirty tricks, so they kept at it with "the president needs to apologize the CORRECT way, he needs to only blame the violence on the RIGHT".
Websites have been shut-down before. Left-wing websites as well. And once, the French even sank a ship.
Right wing extremist groups are not "propping up everywhere". They only reason they have a platform, and any coverage, of ANY sort... is because the misguided media keeps showing up with their cameras. Left wing extremism is real and it's causing just as many problems, if not more. I don't see Nazi groups destroying property and setting cars on fire over a speech at a college.
Both sides have extremist factions that they ignore, because they like that those extremist factions will do the dirty sh!t that the more "normal" (read: need to get re-elected) people won't do. That is why the president denounced violence on both sides. Problem was, the left isn't used to being called out for such dirty tricks, so they kept at it with "the president needs to apologize the CORRECT way, he needs to only blame the violence on the RIGHT".
THIS. There are no more than there ever were. But the media seeks them out and actually helps them by making it look like a growing movement, sparking idiots on the other side to come and confront. Too bad we can't take the ultra left and ultra right and put them in a room together and lock the door, let the media cover the aftermath.
Somebody always thinks what you're saying is exactly as bad. The solution here is just physically beat the people who cannot deal with "words they don't like" to toughen them up, or better, have them expire and die. The human race needs heroes who are fearless and not scared of words, otherwise it will turn into a big fat hypersensitive bitch. It's better that the human race be exterminated than become a big faggy, balding millenial piece of shit worried if something it said or did was offensive. If nothing else, we owe that much to those who come after us.
If this web site was the worst site that needs to be shut down, Germany would be a happy country ;-). It was in the large part only a forum with anonymous usage. The name associated it with the left and the moderators surely had their sympathies rather on the left end on the spectrum.
The site was used by extremists to announce their deeds and to blurp their justifications. On the other hands, they were constantly taking a beating by the far bigger majorities of lefties. It was always clearly visible, how isolated the extremists were.
Tactically the police robbed themselves of one of the best intelligence sources they had on the extreme left.
Christ Almighty...
Why does this have to be left vs. right?
Can't it be civilized people vs. violent monsters?
I don't care which stupid insane ideology you follow if you're hurting innocent people! Fuck off everyone! If you want my attention, this is how you won't get it.
Because it is an extreme view based on a political viewpoint, without any pragmatic application.
I could give a shit less about ideology (left, right, niche, mainstream, underground, outer-space).
Can we please stop calling it out as though it matters?
Let's focus on the important thing:
- People who use violence to force or intimidate others into doing things their way
That behavior belongs in the stone age or after a zombie apocalypse.
The ill-reasoning behind the behavior doesn't matter at all.
Politically motivated violence (short of genocide) has been shown to be ineffective and many times counterproductive. However, if you think genocide is the answer then you have lost sight of what you were fighting for. Combating extremism with more extremism is a losing move.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
given that several European governments are tamping down on them. Antifa are mostly anarchists. By definition they're poorly organized. A well organized anarchist isn't an anarchist.
Also, you do know that Islamic Terrorists are right wing, right? They're conservative and authoritarian. As for economics, sure, they'll take control of all the money, but everybody but the anarchists does that. And the anarchists are really just giving that control up to the right wing (nature abhors a power vacuum).
And if you live in the United States it's a fact that there is more right wing terror acts than Left wing. I can't be bothered to google the proof for you right now, but you could find it by highlighting the last sentence and clicking "Search google for..."
You're just noticing the Left more because the Right owns the media and is using it to push it's narrative. They're doing this so they can take more money from the working class for themselves. And that's sorta why I'm on the Left...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"It comes in the wake of the violence in Charlottesville, Va., this month and amid worries about "antifa" factions that use violence to combat the far-right in the United States."
The Charlottesville incident, where a member of the RIGHT drove a car into a crowd, killing a LEFTIST counter-protestor?
Bullshit.
If you think hatred and violence is monopolized by any one political ideology, you're sorely mistaken. History shows us hatred and violence are an easy vice for any group to fall into, and it's one that we should attack regardless of whether "our team" is doing it or not.
Trolling for those Troll mods, I see.
Hope you get 'em.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
You do realize the confederates were all democrats, right?
Although the right wing gets all the negative press in practice violent far left extremism is a far more serious problem in Greece.
Exhibit A: Golden Dawn. This is characterized as a "right wing" by the dumb ass leftist media who seem to forget it is nationalist SOCIALIST party. Nazis aren't small government types. They are socialists,,,, big government spenders... but only for those of their ethnic background. Not that it's wrong to care about those of your ethnic background but when ti comes to matters of state using ethnicity to judge rights ends up with Nazi-ish government polices that discriminate against citizens of a different ethnic background. The only reason why Nazis don't get along with communists is because communists take a more broad view of social services.
Exhibit B: All those Greek riots you saw on TV these last few years after we made a mess of our government fiances.... yup... mostly leftist extremists (to lessor degree anarchists). If every Greek got Euro for every strike and right leftists needlessly caused these last few years we would be well on our way to paying off our debt.
Exhibit C: Our election of a Marxist PM. The current PM of Greece, Alex Tsipiras, literally believes the communist tyrants during the cold war were on the right side. He literally believes communist terrorist Che Guevera is some sort of human rights activitist (named one of his sons after him)
There is a major problem with leftist extremism in Greece these days but it goes largely unreported because leftist newspapers sympathize with leftist Tsipiras while at the same time analogize any Greek that attempts to protect their own borders and Hellenism with "fascist" (see Macedonia name dispute where nearly everyone unethically plays dumb as the former Yugoslavians now claim to be "ancient Macedonians").
Center is largely toast in Greece these days. It's left and further left. Even the alleged "rightwing" parties have leftist policies.
Appalled as I am by any move to suppress speech, I'm happy the most murderous school of thought known to humanity so far is finally the target. A T-shirt with Che Guevara is — ought to be — far more offensive than one with Hitler.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I confirm this indirectly. I tried to gather statistics on popularity of neonazism in Europe and all I got is Golden Heart (or whatever it called) winning 7% in Greece in parliamentary election.
Rise of right-wing xenophobia is a real thing though. Denmark is flooding propaganda waves with shows like Gidseltagningen, for example.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
It's the exact opposite. A simple google search will show thatright wing violence is 74% more common than left.
This shouldn't be surprising. Antifa groups are anarchists. By definition they're unorganized and loose knit. They reject authority on the face of it. The Right OTOH make authority a central plank of their ideology. Better organization leads to more effective violence. That's why militaries use a chain of command instead of voting.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
FREEDOM!
^I'll faint the day we see a major Hollywood movie with leftist extremest as the bad guys. Far right bad guys are a Hollywood staple.
The ones committing acts of violence are the bad guys as far as I'm concerned. Whatever cause they may believe in.
Congressman Scalise is improving, and is undergoing physical therapy so he can walk again.
After, you know, a Bernie Bro shot him and some other people.
And the former professor - again, a leftist - who slammed a bike lock into four people's heads, is still awaiting trial.
Not to mention the 200 or so leftists who are facing charges after their violent riots in Washington, DC.
Germany expands the category 'left-wing' to include anything objectionable.
Requiem for the American Dream
Bad guys tend to have a right wing mentality, and when we're talking about nazi cowards it's double.
Need I say more?
When you demand that the free speech of others needs to be stifled because their speech offends you/you disagree with their speech, you should not be surprised when the headman's axe swings back in your direction.
An argument I am often drawn back to in these trying times was made by Christopher Hitchens in a Canadian debate on free speech:
Point 1: Free speech is as much about my right to hear what someone has to say as it is about someone's right to say it.
Point 2: Who are you going to appoint to decide what things you are allowed to listen to?
At the moment, many big tech companies seem to be self-appointing themselves to the post of what you are allowed to see/hear/comment about/say.
If these people were burning books, I think there would be more outrage; but, disappearing tweets, videos, web pages, or entire web sites -- not so much.
Germany has had this policy in place for the past several years (especially since the "immigrant crisis").
The only difference now is they are taking down a site full of people who thought; "We are the righteous ... this could never happen to us."
and then look up what their political views are. I think you'll be surprised (and mildly horrified). By 'media' I mean your radio, television and major newspapers. There's plenty of smaller fringes out there.
The media typically goes left on social issues (the ones that don't matter much) and right on economics (where real decisions are made).
There is one exception I can think of oddly enough, the BBC. Them and Al Jazeera are proabably the last bulwark of journalism left in the world. Though to be honest I don't follow the BBC's national coverage. I'd like to think if they'd been more on their toes Brexit wouldn't be happening right now.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Conservatives want to keep things as is, unchanged. The Far right has taken over that term to disguise their radical agenda (I know, I hate that word too, but I don't have a better one for a group that want to make radical changes to our civilization).
There's an old line about the greatest trick the devil ever pulled and the Right did just that by branding "Conservative". Most folks are a tad on the Conservative side as soon as they have something to lose. By calling themselves that the Right hide their true nature.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
not sure what the hell gave you that idea. I'm a Democratic Socialist. And your comrades are going to get stomped to death by real, live Nazis long before you get around to shooting me. Not that that'll help either of us. They'll do the same to me. Meanwhile those same Nazi's will be laughing their asses off at the beer halls because your silly anarchist dreams were no match for their highly organized groups of brown shirts.
Join or Die friend. You're gonna have a government whether you like it or not. The only question is do you bother to participate.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
they tried just that in Boston and a few dozen showed up. Meanwhile 2000+ counter protesters showed up. Their rallies tend to be down south where racism is strong enough to bring them out. But they're spreading, and since they get along well with the economic and Christian right they've got a power base to grow and expand off of.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
and couldn't be more far right if they tried. What they do is use left wing Rhetoric and far right policies. That's where your confusion is.
It's important to have labels and shorthand to get a message across fast. Working Class people have limited time and attention spans. If you're trying to organize and help them you've got to work in those constraints. The Right can and will to your detriment and mine.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Barry Goldwater would not approve of these shenanigans.
https://youtu.be/RVNoClu0h9M
I didn't realize that Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim, Castro, etc. were right-wingers...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
And yes I do consider destroying the system that produces and distributes all goods (especially food) "violence". And starving to death is much more painful than a bullet.
Both sides are violent, but in different ways. In the last century, the left killed more than the right, but most of those deaths were due to economic incompetence rather than intentional actions. Killing out of hate is far more common on the right. Stalin allowed millions of Ukrainian kulaks to starve, not because he hated them, but because he saw them as a threat to his power. But the Jews were not a threat to Hitler, they had supported the Kaiser in WW1, and they got along with Fascists like Franco, who did not share the Nazi's anti-semitism.
The same is true today. In Charlottesville, the alt-left directed their anger at their opponents on the alt-right. The alt-right chanted against leftists, but also blacks, Jews, gays, etc.
"Can't it be civilized people vs. violent monsters?"
Looking at the laws we have right now in the USA, I daresay not a damned one of you are civilized.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I didn't realize that ****, Kim, ***, etc. were right-wingers...
Really, you haven't noticed Kim Stanley Robinson's right-wing agenda?
Oh wait, you mean Kim Jong-un? Yeah, check out Juche, the North Korean ideology. He's so right-wing, if he were a NASCAR driver, he'd turn 12 times to go around the track.
Cool, you are a racist then. I have seen many posts of yours supporting the DNC, march with the racists you are a racist.
DNC - start civil war to keep slavery
DNC - attempted to prevent women from voting
DNC - attempted to keep blacks from voting
DNC - filibusted civil rights act
DNC - kept KKK leader as their top senator for 60+ years and celebrated him as a hero after he died.
DNC - supports planned parenthood, started by M. Sanger who wanted to exterminate blacks in the US by abortions (blacks are 13% of population and 50% of abortions)
So congratulations racist. If you didn't want to be called one, you shouldn't have supported them.
So - Communism is right wing now? I guess we always have been at war with Eurasia...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I think you need to define what left and right mean to you. I think you are conflating the politics of a group and the people attracted to the label. I would define Nazi party as hard core authoritarian Left wing. Right wing doesn't mean Fascism, the political ideal of alt-right includes widening state power vs federal. So, less power to one person or group of people.
In Star Trek Next Gen and maybe original series there is an episode where they had to 'Drop the shields' in order to save themselves and overcome a force that was feeding off the shield energy. While it definitely seemed counter-intuitive to do so, there could be something to this....
'If you want to start a war, a good way is to start chanting for peace'
What is it with them? Can't they see they're acting the same way as in the past which lead to very bad results.
"This [thing] is wrong, ban it! Report anyone you see doing it! Lock up people who are part of it! Kill -- people who are part of it." Morons!
When you movement propose to kill people, it is a radical movement.
And both sides are proposing that, "except" with the antifa saying that they "only want to kill the nazi".
It's worked great for dictators for millennia. Sure, every now and then one of 'em gets toppled, but that's surprisingly rare.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I would define Nazi party as hard core authoritarian Left wing.
In which case you would be a stupid American. Mussolini's idea of fascism as being a more-or-less corporate enterprise would fit in just fine with the small-government libertarians. Fascists tended to adopt Roman fripperies and you may also recall a certain brand of 'ubermensch' ultra-individualist philosophy. Add in a hefty heaping of nationalism, and restrict social benefits to a privileged class, and the Stormfront crowd will eat it up.
So - Communism is right wing now? I guess we always have been at war with Eurasia...
Ha! When this article started I had a conversation with a friend about historical revisionism happening within my lifetime. The conversation started with piles of history and political science books I have amassed over decades that insist National Socialism was radical left wing and fascism was neither left or right, but a new and unusual class all its own. Only in the last decade or so has fascism been somehow reclassified as right wing and socialism, when it has bad outcomes, is now also right wing despite having all the hallmarks of, well, any socialist system. I can track the change from textbooks written by or for college professors, but not by or for historians.
Then I bet $500 USD that violent or oppressive communism would be reclassified as right wing as well over the next decade by liberal leaning people sufficient to change textbooks. I never thought to see an example of a person claiming communism is right wing so soon as a few hours later.
Look's like I am going to win that bet.
So - Communism is right wing now? I guess we always have been at war with Eurasia...
Ah, somebody didn't bother to learn anything about the real North Korea, or you'd know they haven't pretended to be Communist for over 30 years. And they aren't Islamic, in case you believe that Axis of Evil story.
Maybe you should stop getting lessons from Big Brother, or you wouldn't buy the story about the Chocolate Ration either.
Lost me at calling me a stupid american. Great effort at speaking in wind.
I think the percentage of people who fall into your little drama world are much much smaller than you think. There is probably like 7000 white supremacists in the US.
White people hate them every bit as much as everyone else if not more. They are absolutely despised.
They may have voted for trump but he would have won without them. Clinton was a horrible candidate who would try to strip rights out of the Constitution and as far as I'm concerned she's a criminal. The Clinton foundation is a bit fishy if you pay attention to it.
The media is the thing that's dividing all of us. They create a narrative because it brings ratings. Now we have people protesting and fighting, we have had a mentally unstable bigot drive his car into a crowd of people....it's time to wake up, stop buying into the media's propaganda and come together as people and citizens of The United States..
It's ok that we don't Agree on everything. We will never solve a single issue if we remain divided
This is a strawman argument which is getting rather tiresome. The people accused of being Nazis are the ones adopting Nazi symbolism and ideologies, and describing themselves as Nazis.
Nazis deserve all of the protections afforded by law, and no others. In advocating genocide, you give up the protections of common human decency. People will choose not to help you, choose not to associate with you, and if you trip, they will not only let you fall, but judge you for falling as well. It's a pretty tough gig. Fortunately, being a Nazi is not a congenital condition, and the cure is pretty simple. You just kinda have to say that you're not a Nazi, and preferably not make too many statements in favor of genocide.
Saying, "I am a Nazi" isn't saying, "I deserve to have people do bad things to me," it's saying, "I deserve whatever happens to me." You get all of the downsides of being a disliked minority, and no advocates. If you give people a reason to strongly dislike you without knowing you at all, that's actually sufficient for you to have a pretty bad time in life (see also being transgender).
Your objection is a nice cover for your white male victimization syndrome.
they tried just that in Boston and a few dozen showed up.
Looked to me like the "few dozen" that showed up at Bostons free speech rally were a bunch of hippies and anti-gmo people. While they were talking about hippy things and gmo's, the counter protesters were screaming "Nazis!", "Fascists!", and "Racists!"
"His name was James Damore."
I don't see Nazi groups destroying property and setting cars on fire over a speech at a college.
The speech at Berkeley was supposed to be on Toxic Feminism of all things. The truth doesnt matter to these leftists, which is why Milo the homosexual Jew with the black boyfriend that wants to talk about feminism is a nazi white supremacists and therefore Berkeley has to be destroyed to prevent him from talking.
"His name was James Damore."
..and by nazi's they mean people like the homosexual jew with the black boyfriend.
"His name was James Damore."
Ha! When this article started I had a conversation with a friend about historical revisionism happening within my lifetime.
Did you have a conversation about political alterations?
The conversation started with piles of history and political science books I have amassed over decades that insist National Socialism was radical left wing and fascism was neither left or right, but a new and unusual class all its own.
Did you gather any works that demonstrate the flaws of the simple 1-axis political depictions?
Only in the last decade or so has fascism been somehow reclassified as right wing
Oh? Do explain how I have a Webster's Dictionary from the 1990s that describes fascism as an extreme right-wing political movement. Want me to look for an older dictionary, or will you do it yourself? And there are numerous papers and books available on the Internet that were originally published before then that follow a similar meaning.
and socialism, when it has bad outcomes, is now also right wing despite having all the hallmarks of, well, any socialist system.
Socialism is blamed for every crisis now, even when the problem is too little.
I can track the change from textbooks written by or for college professors, but not by or for historians.
Historians tend to have their own problems.
Then I bet $500 USD that violent or oppressive communism would be reclassified as right wing as well over the next decade by liberal leaning people sufficient to change textbooks.
The USSR and PRC have long been identified as authoritarian states with only lip service, if that, to any Communist principles. I would, however, point out the flaws in attempting to classify it on the flawed axis as already mentioned.
Technically, of course, the Pournelle Chart dates from 1963, and it does place Communism on the Right, so...I guess you could win with that.
I never thought to see an example of a person claiming communism is right wing so soon as a few hours later.
But this example is a flop, as you're confused, and didn't read the post accurately. Much like LynnwoodRooster, but at least I don't know you are a lying troll. So I can clarify in good faith, that the point I was making was that North Korea was no longer even pretending to be "Communist" as the "Juche" philosophy which they created works on a different paradigm.
Look's like I am going to win that bet.
Probably should have had the money put in escrow. I doubt you'll collect.
Ah, so No True Scotsman, then...
Good. Every large group has it's version of Soccer Hooligans. The left is no different. The difference is (as Noam Chomsky noted) the Right is _much_ better at violence than the Left.
So why is it that the Left in the U.S. are the only ones so far that have shot or killed anyone?
Granted the ones who killed people were rather crazy and it's hard to label them exactly, but they all mostly read eliminationsist rhetoric from the left.
"The right is better organized" is a "fact" I would heavily dispute, since the most violent leftist felons are controlled by someone who all he literally knows how to do is organize communities. The right is only now trying to catch up but they are light-years beyond at shipping around people who make violence a profession.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Who, in addition to John Casor, owned two *white* slaves.
Even if it were just real nazis, it's never ok to kill people.
Yes, when they have guns, tanks and shit and don't want to surrender, you need to kill em, but it's still not OK.
Lol, idiot.
It's not worth responding with anything deeper to your moronic echo chamber crap.
Berkeley campus trashed and set on fire by.... leftists upset over some gay white guy giving a speech.
Done here.
Yes, and they were conservatives. It would seem things have changed.
Rise of right-wing xenophobia become a real perfectly justified thing though.
US "Conservatives" aren't. They're Radical Regressives. Trying to regress society back to some imaginary 'good 'ole times'. They're borrowing the Rhetoric of true Conservatives in exactly the same way Stalin borrowed the rhetoric of Progressives; to mask ill intent.
Ignore what they say, pay attention to what they _do_.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
And you have war crimes committed during WW2 by Germany.
Japanese and you have internment camps in the US during WW2.
Gays and you have countries all over the world.
Natives and you have every country ever.
It's not just a slippery slope, it is how all the worst atrocities have been justified.
they can't coexist because the Right wing want radical, sweeping changes to our social and economic order. You can't be Conservative and support that. As soon as you do you're no longer Conservative. Like an Anarchist trying to be Authoritarian. The two are fundamentally opposed.
They Right realized that a substantial number of people are Conservative out of fear of losing what they had. So they synced their rhetoric with those peoples wishes to hide their true intentions.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"The left" is meant to describe half the voting population, but almost none of them actually have any of the zany motivations you just ascribed to them.
Where exactly do you get your information on "antifa"? You are aware that there is an active movement right now by pro-Trump trolls running fake "Antifa" twitter accounts, don't you? Even the pro-trump troll who created the "declare antifa a terrorist group" White House petition claims to have twitterbot armies of his own stoking the fires.
Antifa is not a "movement". It has no "ideology". It simply means "anti-fascist". Anyone who considers themselves anti-fascist can (or not) adopt the label.
He's just being nice so my real father won't freeze him in carbonite and sell him for spice.
Not only that. You are now justified in assaulting them. Rules of Antifa.
It's a label that have quite a bit of blood splattered over it (mostly by the european branches), and not a good solution for the nazi at all.
"This reveals one of the darkest depths of the human mind - when a group is utterly convinced that they are the 'victims' of another group, they can rationalize any level of evil against their perceived oppressors."
>but they are the ones determining what speech they allow on THEIR OWN SERVERS and running through THEIR OWN SERVICES.
Then let them guard "their own" "intellectual property" - as in copyrights, patents, trademarks, domain names, whatever - WITHOUT using government's resources. As soon as they DO STOP siphoning off taxpayers' money on enforcing these GOVERNMENT-PROVIDED MONOPOLY GRANTS - they could be "the ones determining" to their hearts' content. But not before.
What I would 'tell the family' is that MORE SPEECH is the best herd-immunity against hate speech. If white-supremacists were allowed to speak freely (without antifa mobs rioting) they would just look like fools. LESS people would be swayed to their side rather than more. Just imagine Anna Kasparian debating a white supremacist. In a bikini. (her not him you schmuck!) In general when speech is suppressed then WORSE societal behaviors often end up fomenting in the fringes. You're outspoken on slashdot. You'll take on a white supremacist idiot in the public forum. I have faith in people like you. And if you find any bikini pics of Anna Kasparian (blonde era), do forward them. P.S. Here's the 'Battle of The Blondes' Coulter vs. Kasparian at Politicon and Toure being sexist by calling it a catfight. Yeah, I'm being sexist too but look at her legs when she gets up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The best defense against hate speech is more speech. Let these idiots be ridiculed in the public square. NONE of them could handle themselves in a debate on the news. They'd just look like uneducated, uninformed, tribal, socially backwards members of some particularly regressive religions. Seriously -- those guys do NOT get the hot girls. So let them speak. When the ACLU defended the right of actual NAZI's to march it was the right thing to do. (although it was funnier when Mel Brooks dressed as Hitler.)
Strat - I surmise that a good deal of the anti-speech movement on the left comes from, as one philosopher phrases it, "A Desire to Be Heroic." It is, as of yet, unclear to me what the highest quality approaches are to discussing this. Some of us believe the best defense against hate speech is MORE SPEECH. Suggesting this quickly got you labelled a member of the aryan nation by one responder. No doubt I'll get flamed too for responding to a couple of them. I included images of what MORE SPEECH means to me (Anna Kasparian's legs, Mel Brooks impersonating Hitler, Woody Allen as Castro). However the 'YOU ARE A WHITE RACIST' response quickly follows. And it's worthless, in my case for example, to explain that I'm not white. Nor will I pass the 'paper bag test' any time soon.
dfenstrate - That was a lucid, logical and cogent response. Thank you. Valuable for me to paste into my debate points for future reference. Needed a concision in my response to "White Supremacist terror is the greater threat." Okay, maybe 'concision' isn't a word. Yet. Until I repeat it enough. Muhahahaahahahah. P.S. The 'marine' who recently killed the two cops also happened to be Black (by casual observation), a Black Lives Supporter (by Facebook posts), and Muslim by, oh, his new name Muhammad Ali (Facebook again, which also contains his anti-white rants.) http://www.thegatewaypundit.co... Yeah, well, anyway, I just can't find myself to be worried that, in general, it would be former marines that are going to ram a building with aircraft full of passengers or shoot up a gay nightclub.
Only one specific subdomain was declared illegal, lots of others and the indymedia domain itself are unaffectec
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Rockoon - Your response is intriguing. I've been trying to figure out the [reason] so many people in USA would think the media is right-wing. I mean, the number is FAR over the few points of fringe in any standard deviation. My placeholder for [reason] was [lives in an alternate universe]....and I think you just described that universe to me. Which will assist with my own active efforts to bring further rationality. Can you elaborate more on this mindset? Even if you were joking -- your explanation is still the MOST logical one I have encountered for any normative human to be able to say "the press right-wing dominated". P.S. Did you notice that Trudeau in the great north is deporting record numbers of immigrants? What happened to his tweet welcoming refugees with open arms in response to American enforcement of border law. Maybe one day our 'right wing' dominated press will report on that. And the collapse of Venezuela.
Was seeing a Democratic Socialist being effectively called a Right Wing Zealot. Much more amusing than my being called out for being a White-Nationalist for my defense of freedom of speech in the public square. Seriously - I'd be THE MOST AWESOME White Nationalist EVER because I'm so brown that I should sue UPS for cultural appropriation. Oh shit...that's not actually funny because Yoga is under attack and universities can't have Mexican Food Day. But I REALLY REALLY like white women. So maybe I'm a white nationalist in that respect. Why white women you say? Easy. The flavor and the aroma. However -- back to serious points -- any defense of the tenets of Western Culture (including use of the words Western Culture) trigger the "You are a racist capitalist white supremacist!" against even those of us who are philosophically and biologically incapable of such feats. Then the dialectic fails. Shouting begins. Fighting possible. (That ALWAYS means fewer white women in bikinis, unless it is in amateur female jello wrestling which I am familiar with as I once managed Hillbilly Hussy). What, if any, could be a way to enter this debate without being labelled a KKK Grand Dragon?
moronoxyd - I am interested in your point that leftist violence is mainly property damage while rightist violence leads to greater shootings and bombings. Some would debate your point by saying "millions of people were killed by the left (Stalin, Mao)" but that's pointless and doesn't apply to a point you're making about TODAY. The Stalin/Mao point is often an intellectually lazy knee-jerk response. I appreciate you're talking about TODAY. I am interested in your 'left=property damage VS. right=guns+bombings'. As of TODAY the most recent history is that a leftist wing-nut attacked a baseball field of Republican congressmen with a semi-automatic combat rifle. Two FL policemen were assassinated by a 'former marine'. Former Marine sounds rightist until one find out the media covered up he is actually a BLM supporter, Black Power rant-maker, Muslim Convert, Black himself, and Leftist based on his social media data. Okay, I agree those are micro datapoints. Lets go macro - about 13% of the population is responsible for about 50% our murders -- done mainly with guns. That 13% is virtually entirely comprised of a Democratic constituency. Gun violence is highest in Democrat controlled cities like Detroit, Chicago, D.C. These are cities controlled by the left for DECADES. While on the other hand virtually zero NRA members are violent criminals because felons cannot own guns. (Even if every NRA member was a closet felon they aren't killing at 4x-5x their population count). Okay -- in the interest of brevity, I will cease at two TODAY micro points and two TODAY macro points. All easily googled. Of course I could be wrong in seeing more leftist gun violence. I am human (albeit a suave and charming one, still flawed and prone to error). Please tell me why I should change my opinion to yours. I have an open mind. Thank you.
Kirby (sic) -- now you STOP IT with your true-facts which happen just not get reported by the press unless they are FORCED TO. Did you not realize some former Obama voter and Occupy dude recently declared himself a white nationalist and killed some chick at a protest. And for that we should impeach Donald Trump and install Maxine Waters as president. And we should take all of Trumps stuff because after DECADES in the public eye with HORDES of enemies (Rosie O'Donnel counts as one or more hordes herself) we now realize he's racist. Black people winning The Apprentice was cover and his employees like Omarosa (she's white house staff!) are really white chicks wearing shoe polish. Viva la revolucion!!!
Shutting peoples opinions down is not fighting fascism. It *is* fascism!
The word "nazi" today more often indicates the presence of a radical leftist nut (or slimy left-wing propagandist) than it does actual nazis.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
PopeRatzo - you often reply cogently and wittily. I look forward to your posts whether I agree with them or not. (Actually, disagree is MORE interesting cuz you put out some some really really good slapdowns.) Can you explain however how you believe that right nationalists appear on college campuses? Not even feminist, black woman and former muslim Ayaan Hirsi can appear on campus without riots threatened and honorary degrees revoked (Brandeis) because of leftist campus control. Maybe you consider Orthodox Jews like Ben Shapiro to be 'white supremacist' because he's caucasian even though the skinheads want him dead. He is also highly protested and even locked out of some campuses. (youtube video of police blocks available). Berkeley rioting shut down Milo and has, for now, halted Anne Coulter. If Milo is a WS that means White Supremacy now contains fantabulous (and often flaming ) gays who prefer black lovers. (shit man, that's almost a white supremacy that I could get into) And he's proud to state he's catching, not pitching, and I don't think one bottoms their way to supremacy. (I could be wrong. I'm heterosexual so maybe I just don't know.) So help me understand how I come over to your side and espouse that college campuses are where white supremacists foment. BTW -- the story you linked is absolutely an example of awful violent detestable white-supremacist cowards who should be put away for decades or more. It underscores they are thankfully a minority. According to 2014 FBI Homicide statistics 8% of black murders were by whites - no doubt often like the skinhead scum in your link. However 15% of killed whites were murdered by blacks. Whites are 77% of America, and blacks are 13%. Seems like one group there is underrepresented as murderers and the other vastly over-represented. I always enjoy your thoughts and I am interested in why I should adopt your points instead of what appears to be factual information to the opposite. I am rational enough to change my opinions based on properly understanding facts. Yeah -- and I'm man enough to handle your quick slapdowns. I'll probably enjoy it (but hey -- I'm not coming on to you, just so you know....unless you're really cute, clever and female and about 22-28 but I suspect you're not precisely in that ven intersection ) P.S. Ever see 'Midnight Cowboy'? Oscar winning 60's film. Dustin Hoffman's character is called 'Ratzo' at times in the movie. Whenever I see your handle the images that hit are Hoffman + Pope Of Greenwich Village. The set of memes it invokes for me is really cool.
Almost all, if not all, violence at the G20 was either carried out by police, or instigated by police (when they start beating people up, using hoses, forcefully trying to drive protesters away etc.)
The use of the term "linked to G20 violence", applied to a website, is underhanded, since it surreptitiously makes you assume it's left wing "extremists" who were violent and the question is how/whether they should be suppressed or not.
Do you suppose somebody would entertain, say, shutting the police website's down because of their link to violence at G20? Hmm.
rsilvergun - the 'spreading' of the white nationalist movement is indeed of concern. I can see how there will be some overlap with the Christian Right. It is not exactly clear to me how they fit with the Economic Right. I am willing to learn about all of these points. Can you links or recommendations for high-quality sources for this info? I ask for recommendations because finding non-politicized data about divisive issues can be labor intensive. And I am truly interested in updating my fact set via the advice of other rational men. I also like bourbon and women and I find all of these can be combined at the same bar -- however we are, as of now, confined to slashdot. I know there is media narrative of growth of white power. But this is the same media that colluded with the DNC (Wikileaks emails) to destroy Bernie Sanders' ability to compete with Hillary Clinton. The 'growth of white power' reports from the Obama admin appear to be an exaggerated story expressly created to replace any discussion of Islamic Terrorism. But I am human and all the bourbon and woman-chasing could easily make me miss the trend you're seeing. I'm not debating your observation with counterpoints. I do not have an opinion on the growth of white supremacy because I thought the SPLC killing off the Klan's brand was a milestone in the successful process of ridding ourselves of those people. I have a vested interest in non-tribalism as an American and an actual, bona-fide brown man myself. Who should I trust, or what direction should I search to learn about the growth of White Supremacy in the USA? P.S. I like to hang out in the south. (I do so like southern girls.) As a brown man on a motorcycle I'm both more obvious and more vulnerable. My girlfriends are always white. (is this jungle fever or racism? I say sexual preference -- no heritage performs better in bed for a man of my ethnicity than white women. That discussion another day.) So I guess I'm a really good target for white supremacists -- a brown northern tech exec who dates very attractive white women and celebrates Pride. Great you asswipe -- now you've made me paranoid. :) Kidding aside -- yeah, your point matters. What is best way to learn? (and I actually would avoid getting lynched if there's hotbeds of that about to occur. contrary to Road Warrior type films a motorcycle IS NOT a good attack or defense platform.)
Dangit honkey! That's what I mean by a PopeRatzo slapdown! Not a factual response, yet humor doesn't require agreement and I do (as previously stated) enjoy the wit even its not (yet) backed up by fact. Scott Adams espouses the use of "linguistic kill shots" - enjoyable and rational reading.
Perhaps you are confusing it with just "fa". If you know what I mean.
You're a victim of Marxist attempts to rewrite history. Yes, fascism is nearly identical to socialism and communism, with strong state control of the economy and collectivist objectives.
Libertarianism is the exact opposite of both fascism and communism, demanding individual liberties and small government.
Calling yourself an anti fascist doesn't mean that you actually are anti fascist. In fact, many "antifa" activists behave just like fascists and espouse fascist beliefs.
No, they were not conservatives, and things haven't changed: Democrats were and still are the party that governs based on classifying people by race and they are still the party of wealthy elites. Republicans are still the party of equality under the law, small government, and personal responsibility.
No, fascism is marching around with torches, waving Nazi flags and shouting "Jews will not replace us!" and "Blood and Soil!" Fascism is a guy with a facebook page full of Nazi imagery plowing his car into a crowd of protesters. Fascism is literal fascism. Save your "metaphorical fascism" comments for when we're not dealing with actual nazis.
He's just being nice so my real father won't freeze him in carbonite and sell him for spice.
Ah, so No True Scotsman, then...
Pay attention, it's North Korea we're talking about, they're making a point of not being Communists, nor having anything to do with philosophies of Chinese, Russian, or other such proponents, whether Marx, Lenin, Hayek or Sarte.
It's "Not a Scotsman at all" since you didn't notice in your mindless preference for resorting to fallacies, rather than examining and learning as suggested.
I understand though, your political dogma requires all enemies to be easily identified and categorized as leftist. BlueStrat, s.petry, LynnwoodRooster, markdavis, others, also behave that way.
Most of them can't even realize that the left-right political spectrum is misleading, and outright deceptive at times.
Why assume I'm American?
Antifa is not the only people on the left advocating violence.
Head into the radical left that claims to be against racism, and you'll find plenty of individuals advocating for genocide.
As far as I'm concerned, blaming Jews and advocating their genocide on the right, or blaming "whites" and advocating their genocide is not different. Just violent, hateful losers advocating hatred and violence.
Lots of monsters out there. They are the enemies of civilized people. Quibbling over what their stated philosophy is... Well, it's letting the monsters win. Once you're hurting people and spreading hate, I don't care what your ideology is any more. You lost moral authority for me to care.
....
I'm sure Stalin would agree with you.
You're missing the point.
The alt-right chanted. They chanted idiotic, hateful filth, but that is all they did until provoked. Far fewer of them even did that until the left had already become openly hostile, such as at Berkeley.
People blame the alt-left for the escalating political violence on both sides because they started it. They declared that certain kinds of talk are themselves violent, the classic refuge of those who are too lazy to make stupid ideas look stupid.
That's a good point. My grandfather didn't fight fascists because he disagreed with them. He fought fascists because they had guns and bombs and tanks and they were going to invade.
Proving you're correct by murdering your intellectual opponents is effective, but by far the weakest form of argument. All it proves is that you're better at killing. Sometimes you have no choice if they start killing first, but that doesn't mean killing is a great solution. Once we get there, we've failed. It's a last resort.
Juche became the official North Korean doctorine in 1992. It's goal is to bring about a strong North Korea so "that by becoming a self-reliant and strong nation one can achieve true socialism.[3]" I guess you can say that North Korea is not Communist, but Socialist. That's a big plug I'm sure the socialists will like - look, North Korea is Socialist!
The reality is that Communism and Socialism both rely upon a strong, central Government. The needs of the People are paramount, but in order to guarantee those needs are met the State must be strong and centralized. And therein lies the absolute failure of such political philosophies. When you provide for an all-powerful State, you will give a position of power to those running the State. And human nature being what it is, there will be people who seek to use that power for their own personal gain.
The other approach, libertarianism, capitalism, the original concept of the United States (and what is still practiced in Switzerland who has a very weak and small Federal Government) recognizes human nature and allows for self-reliance. A man can make what he wants to provide for himself, and thereby maintain independence. Individuals are self-reliant for the most part, and Government acts as the means of adjudicating conflicts.
In reality, the socialist/communist approach is really a call for fascism - the merging of economy and Government with force to back it up. Capitalism and libertarianism is the exact opposite - it purposefully keeps economy and Government apart, and thereby guarantees individual liberties (if you can provide for yourself, then Government loses its ability to coerce or control you). Socialism and Communism reside on the left, politically - and at least Socialism is highly regarded by the Democrats! Libertarianism and capitalism reside on the right, politically - and capitalism is a central tenet of the GOP and libertarianism is a strong streak (not strong enough) within much of the GOP.
When you get beyond the labels you like to sling about, and look at what really results, fascism is THE central step of all leftist ideologies. It is the step between "identify and communicate the ideal" and "utpoia". It is that step where the central Government becomes all powerful in an attempt to move to utopian results - but is never exited except by force. Because the entire concept of Socialism and Communism is inherently flawed because it denies human nature.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
HERETIC! YOU MUST BE BURNED! We must scrub all traces of you off the Internet for you are now causing SJWs around the world to rush head-long to the nearest ball pit and grab coloring books and puppies for comfort!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
So... Muslims are easily fascists by your definition. Time to start punching!
I'm pretty sure antifa are the ones swinging bike locks into peoples heads, but I'm sure they had a very good reason, like maybe he didn't agree with them.
Antifa dehumanizes everyone that doesn't agree with them, just like the Nazis did with the Jews.
That's exactly what someone from 4chan/pol/ would say.
Anyway, welcome to Slashdot. But remember, I'll be keeping an eye on you.
Dude -- that was the first belly laugh of the day. Well done. I myself wish I could be so succinct and punchy when writing. My writing is painfully verbose (as you are suffering now, I sympathize). I don't suffer the same malady in speech. Quite the opposite where I can approach Robin Williams multi-manic.
:[
However now I must visit 4chan for the first time and actually post something. This is to memorialize a good moment and an excellent cap to my being hazed by a veteran slashdotter.
The absolutely GEEKIEST thing that I have is a Skyrim necklace. Even Slashdotters have to admit a Skyrim necklace is pretty darned Nerdtastic even in North Dweebistan. I possess a Skyrim necklace because the young woman who sells me replacement elements for our gaming consoles decided I was such a good client that she would present me with the pewter dragon centered rhombus.
There are some phenomena in life that come with their own rule. With this it was "If someone gives you a Skyrim necklace with extremely high intent, then you must wear the Skyrim necklace to learn something about yourself." So I wore the Skyrim Necklace for like 3 days. Each day worried that someone would find out. What's funny is that I was alone in this facility for those three days. This is not irrational. If women knew exactly how weird I am, there would be a LOT less sex. And probably referrals to therapy.
On the upside when I wear it I'm +5 Int and +20 Dex, albeit limited to fingers only. But that's countered with -50 Sex Appeal.
Much appreciated. That list is more than enough for me increase the level at which I am informed. Will hail you to learn more as this suggests I'm missing an important information input. I am moderately certain that knowledge of this trend of White Supremacists on college campuses is largely unknown by many, many people who are aware that conservative speakers (Coulter, Shapiro, Ayaan Hirsi-Ali) are yet persona non grata. This is some form of double crime if WP's are allowed while fiscal & social conservatives (who are not racists and often black, like Ayaan or WP targets like Orthodox 'Funny Hat Wearing'-his words- Shapiro) are defacto barred. Yep -- I've got something to learn here about actual reality. Thanks.
P.S. I have decided that in light of recent events I must visit 4chan over a multi day period. And post something meaningful. If that is possible on 4chan. When I do that I must wear The Skyrim Necklace. It sits here now. On my desk. Mocking...yet seducing me. Now that I look at it -- it's actually quite nicely machined. Smooth...very little torsion yet still flexible -- not brittle. Much better metal than I expected.
Why are folks like you so intent on proving how correct you are be the measurement of how unhappy or mad you can make 'the other side'?
I really don't get it. I disagree with you - but I consider "winning" to be the absence of conflict and the ability to live my life without interference from "your side".
By all appearances you seem to measure winning by how much sadness you can spread.
Good luck with that.
I hear North Korea had a small government. I'm fact its glorious leader actively thins his own government all the time. How much liberty does its people have?
When ANTIFA starts constructing militia in rural parts of the US and start stockpiling millions of militarized weapons and goods to the point that the FBI, DEA and CIA are scared of them, THEN I'll worry about left wing radicals in the US. Until then, they have my full support.
The akt-right did more than chant. By virtue of the fact they are Nazis, and we all know what Nazis like to do to Jews. Also they were constantly surrounding and threatening unarmed opposition protesters while armed to the teeth with their penis extensions, oops I mean guns. Don't forget that little "incident" with the car driving into a crowd.
You don't get to condone genocide, threaten the safety of those who speak out against you or the racist status your love, or kill your opposition and then claim you were just harmlessly chanting.
LOLOLOL. Oh you were serious.
Juche became the official North Korean doctorine in 1992. It's goal is to bring about a strong North Korea so "that by becoming a self-reliant and strong nation one can achieve true socialism.[3]" I guess you can say that North Korea is not Communist, but Socialist.
Now check out what "true socialism" means for North Koreans. Don't be confused by labels, check for substance. Then contrast it with other philosophies and ideologies. You'll be surprised.
They went out of their way to mock the Chinese, Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans and even the Swedes.
That's a big plug I'm sure the socialists will like - look, North Korea is Socialist!
North Korean Socialist, yes. It's a big right-wing agenda. Authoritarian, controlling, and very militaristic.
The reality is that Communism and Socialism both rely upon a strong, central Government.
North Korea does rely upon such, yes. Others do not.
The needs of the People are paramount, but in order to guarantee those needs are met the State must be strong and centralized. And therein lies the absolute failure of such political philosophies.
No, just your personal failure, because actually Communism does not. You really need to review your understanding.
When you provide for an all-powerful State, you will give a position of power to those running the State.
On the other hand, a State without power...
And human nature being what it is, there will be people who seek to use that power for their own personal gain.
Human nature being what it is, there will be people who seek to use a vacuum of power for their own personal gain. This is news to you?
The other approach, libertarianism, capitalism, the original concept of the United States (and what is still practiced in Switzerland who has a very weak and small Federal Government) recognizes human nature and allows for self-reliance.
The original concept of the United States was a haphazard plan with no particular structure behind it(deriving as it was from the even more confused Colonial settlements), that failed so quickly that the Founding Fathers implemented an entirely new scheme of government within a few years...with no authority beyond their say-so. Switzerland is actually a highly regimented and regulated state, with one significant difference from the United States(as a whole), namely that is has an express means of popular sovereignty.
A point in their favor, to be sure. The US Constitution, besides being a usurpation of authority, was poorly written, and gave little support to the concept of popular sovereignty, instead seeking to impinge and frustrate such schemes, a bit of hypocrisy from the Founding Fathers that reflected their own biases to a high degree. Of course, they were incapable of even rejecting the ownership of men as an abomination, so what do we really expect of such flawed individuals?
A man can make what he wants to provide for himself, and thereby maintain independence. Individuals are self-reliant for the most part, and Government acts as the means of adjudicating conflicts.
You must be confused, very few of these people exist, except in the dime-store novels of the Frontier. And even then, it was a lie.
In reality, the socialist/communist approach is really a call for fascism - the merging of economy and Government with force to back it up. Capitalism and libertarianism is the exact opposite - it purposefully keeps economy and Government apart, and thereby guarantees individual liberties (if you c
You ofter no links to prove our absurd assertions, and the very last shooter to attack people was a die hard Sanders supporter with the Republican he shot just learning to walk again. What an asshole you must be in real life to ignore violence like that against anyone!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Actually its manslaughter at best, she was part of a crowd actively attacking the vehicle..
Some could try and spin self-defense, however that is unlikely unless the vehicle had been breached..
Since you asked.
He could have done without the name calling, but the point stands that the Nazis are not considered leftist by anyone familiar with international politics. For left, think socialism and communism.
Exactly. Size doesn't matter.
We can put communism and national socialism on a line. The far left wants to remove the state uniting the workers all over the world. The nazis wanted to achieve socialism on national scale. The fascists wanted to make the state great again and implement state controlled economy entrusted to private "corporations". This puts nazism and fascism economically to the same level ie "right".
We could extrapolate by adding some tribal socialism to the right side, then family-centric-socialism and finally individualism.
Looks like today the discourse is mostly stuck to the left end of this political spectrum.
And Trump is a diehard Alex Jones fan. And when campaigning trump peddled much the same progressive talking points as Bernie's points. Sans actual policy.
So trump is a leftist?!?!?!?!
Don't think so.
Super stupid.
Sorry, it's just the facts. "Liberal media" is part of the PR fluffery to ensure you don't accept any news other than the one media source you like that is making the accusation against the media source you don't like.
In the 18th and early 19th centuries, religion was almost entirely absent from weddings. Then in the mid 1800s the church demanded that they become more important to people's lives and pressured governments to make weddings the sole remit of the church. That way you could not get married unless you went to a church near you.
The only last vestiges of the correct way (in a historically accurate way of "it was always..") is the right of a captain to perform the marriage ceremony.
Only recently has the state come back in to take some of the right back.
Oh, and you'd have to fuck over a lot of people with tax hikes and institute a shit-ton of new law for medical rights, inheritance rights and partnerships that replace exactly what marriage does if you want to get government out of weddings entirely.
And if states decide what is legal, what happens when two married people move to a state that insists they're not?
And since you want it to be religious only, how does THAT work with states? Does OH have a different christianity than TX?
Your desires are so badly thought out they are not even thought about.
Oh, you forgot about her? Was it because she was female and a democrat and her shooter was a rightwinger?
And even when not cash it's payment in kind, still payment.
So you'll be demanding that Boeing et al all open up their books, right? You're not going to only demand openness of government for the places you didn't go and don't benefit from are you? Because that would be hypocritical and we can therefore ignore your claim above.
So stalemate. Until we work this out, we can't force them to be beholden to federal governemnt restrictions.
the trolls you speak of (arazona antifa and bostona antifa on FB) make it pretty obvious they are mocking antifa.....
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
You're American whether you want to be or not - our country owns this planet. You're obviously too chickenshit to stop us from what we're doing now.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.