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Traditional Radio Faces a Grim Future, New Study Says (variety.com)

In a 30-page report, Larry Miller, the head of New York University's Steinhart Music Business Program, argues that traditional radio has failed to engage with Generation Z -- people born after 1995 -- and that its influence and relevance will continue to be subsumed by digital services unless it upgrades. Key points made in the study include: Generation Z, which is projected to account for 40% of all consumers in the U.S. by 2020, shows little interest in traditional media, including radio, having grown up in an on-demand digital environment. AM/FM radio is in the midst of a massive drop-off as a music-discovery tool by younger generations, with self-reported listening to AM/FM radio among teens aged 13 and up declining by almost 50 percentage points between 2005 and 2016. Music discovery as a whole is moving away from AM/FM radio and toward YouTube, Spotify and Pandora, especially among younger listeners, with 19% of a 2017 study of surveyed listeners citing it as a source for keeping up-to-date with music -- down from 28% the previous year. Among 12-24 year olds who find music discovery important, AM/FM radio (50%) becomes even less influential, trailing YouTube (80%), Spotify (59%), and Pandora (53%). By 2020, 75% of new cars are expected to be "connected" to digital services, breaking radio's monopoly on the car dashboard and relegating AM/FM to just one of a series of audio options behind the wheel. According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, the typical car in the U.S. was 11.6 years old in 2016, which explains why radio has not yet faced its disruption event. However, drivers are buying new cars at a faster rate than ever, and new vehicles come with more installed options for digital music services.

240 comments

  1. Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe they should go back to original programming like back in the day where radio dramas were all over the place as well as live music.

    1. Re:Original programming.. by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Live music is cool when you're actually there. Listening to "live" music through a radio is sort of pointless.

      As to audio dramas - that medium is far better suited to podcasts where users can listen at their leisure rather than tuning in to a scheduled broadcast.

      Honestly, while RF communications as a technology has a bright future, "Radio stations" as in places broadcasting out scheduled audio programming seem like a doomed technology no matter what they do. They're not necessarily even doing anything wrong, except that nobody wants their product anymore.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    2. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going back to the old ways of producing serial programs might work if your listeners are nostalgic baby-boomers and ironic hipsters.

      Managing playlists targeted for a Gen-X audience would be way simpler, and we'll see the 35-55 audiences. Radio like it was in the 70's, 80's and 90's. With DJs spinning records and and putting callers on the air for requests c contests has entertain my generation for decades and I suspect we'll still listen to it during our commute.

      The problem with baby-boomers is they are close to no longer commuting anymore, they're retiring. And I expect their use of radio to drop off dramatically. For millennial, about the only thing they remember was Disney radio and quickly outgrew it. They don't have the nostalgia for radio (or MTV) that we have, and are too involved in social media and expressing their opinions world-wide to care about little city radio broadcasts.

    3. Re:Original programming.. by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Live music on the radio is a pleasant surprise. I've paid for a Sirius subscription for over a decade now and its worth every penny. They have live DJs who might say a few words or news about the band and then play another song. One station was playing a live stream from a Lollapaloozo show and I heard some great songs from The Arcade Fire. Regular radio is dead and buried.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    4. Re:Original programming.. by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is the internet can do anything that radio can. Radio has only a few advantages:

      1)Blankets more of the US than cellular, and works on any radio device (no network issues)
      2)Easier set up for less technical users (not too many people can't use a radio tuner).
      3)No direct cost to user (data costs money for many).

      As time goes on, 1-3 become less of an issue, which leaves radio in the dust. There might still be stations, but they'll broadcast online.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    5. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but surely you've noticed that SiriusXM stations repeat many songs way too often. There are a few like Deep Tracks that play a lot of stuff I've never heard, but it's out there. Most of the other stations have a set playlist.

      After a couple years of that (and getting those 5 months for 1 month promos each time I wanted to cancel) I finally canceled.

      Now I just listen to audiobooks. Costs about the same per month.

    6. Re:Original programming.. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should go back to original programming

      Why would I turn on the radio and listen to some random "original programming" that I am unlikely to find interesting, when I can choose from millions of options on Youtube, listen anytime I want, pause when I am interrupted, and fast forward through the boring parts?

      Radio makes no sense for music, news, or discussion/commentary. Streaming is superior in every way for any content. Even I can see that, and I am a geezer.

    7. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OK, I am a geezer to, but radio is perfect for news. That's what I use it for. I don't watch TV news - haven't for years. But on my drive to work I turn on the radio news, traffic, weather AM station. Why is it not good for news? What streaming thing should I be getting local news from? I get it for podcasts, music, etc. But News?

    8. Re: Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if it is live, and that niche is filled by pod casts and twitch.

      The real solution lies in smarter devices that can save broadcasts temporarily or permanently at source quality. FM radio is often noisy and HD radio basically doesn't exist.

    9. Re:Original programming.. by Strider- · · Score: 3

      For me, the importance of radio is current affairs and news. But then, I might be an old fogey at this point, as my car's radio is pretty much stuck on CBC Radio One (I'm Canadian), or one of the local NPR affiliates when I'm south of the border.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    10. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This boomer stopped listening to the radio a long time ago. It's nearly all junk.

    11. Re:Original programming.. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      For me, the importance of radio is current affairs and news. But then, I might be an old fogey at this point, as my car's radio is pretty much stuck on CBC Radio One (I'm Canadian), or one of the local NPR affiliates when I'm south of the border.

      Same here (and I AM an old fogey). I don't bother with music radio, but I listen to several local news & talk stations.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    12. Re:Original programming.. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      OK, I am a geezer to, but radio is perfect for news. That's what I use it for. I don't watch TV news - haven't for years. But on my drive to work I turn on the radio news, traffic, weather AM station. Why is it not good for news? What streaming thing should I be getting local news from? I get it for podcasts, music, etc. But News?

      Absolutely this! Geezer, and proud of it.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    13. Re:Original programming.. by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should go back to original programming like back in the day where radio dramas were all over the place as well as live music.

      They have... Talk Radio is pretty much a daily dose of drama and is one of the few parts of radio that's doing OK these days.

      (Yes, my tongue is firmly in my cheek here)

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    14. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Liar! You listen to WFMU!

    15. Re:Original programming.. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      radio is perfect for news.

      For news, radio is inferior to streaming in every way. You can't control the timing, the pace, the content, or the prioritization. I can use voice activated streaming to get exactly what I want, when I want it. I get the headlines first, then the weather, then the details. Since I have zero interest in sports, that is left out of my customized news report. Instead, I get an extra briefing on science and tech news. If I find a topic boring, I can just skip it and move on to the next topic. I can't imagine ever going back to radio.

    16. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No CBC Radio 3? I'll admit I haven't listened since they went all-robot and my Sirius/XM trial ran out, but that aspect of Canadian alternative "hits" was incredible- I can name more still-performing Canadian bands I like than the rest of the world combined.

    17. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listening to "live" music through a radio is sort of pointless.

      The exception is when the "live" music is recorded. Sometimes, it just happens to be a great recording and/or a great performance. e.g. Allman Brother's "At Fillmore East", Maiden's "Live After Death", etc

    18. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they do repeat songs often, not as often as FM Radio though. That is why you have over 200 stations available. Don't feel like music, listen to the news or sports. Don't know one station in your genre cause they overplayed the crap out of one too many songs, hit channel up, you'll get a different station in a similar genre. Listen to it for a while then change back.

      I've got Android Auto in my car so I also switch back and forth between Pandora and XM, it's rare I am over forced to listen to a song that has been overplayed beyond what I can stand.

    19. Re:Original programming.. by war4peace · · Score: 1

      I also prefer online radio to regular radio for the following reasons:
      - thousands of stations to choose from;
      - specialized stations grouped by category are available;
      - When a song I like starts streaming, I can pull the device I listen with (usually phone) and copy the song info (artist, title) and either look them up on the Internet, or transfer that info to my Evernote document for later searching;
      - if for some reason I want to switch, I tap a button and switch to the next online radio in the same category;
      - no generic crap music is being streamed - because the categories I choose don't stream said crap;
      - online radios do actually compete with each other.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    20. Re:Original programming.. by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, radio 3 doesn't have any on-air transmitters. Due to the shitty mobile data plans in Canada, I'm not about to stream it while driving.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    21. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pandora, Sirius, and FM/AM all suffer the same issues. They have playlists with no imagination behind them. Sirius especially is a way to get bored immediately. There might be 1 new song in 60, if you're lucky, and then the entire set repeats, on a loop, ad infinitum. Sirius suffers from ClearChannel itis, a small set of corporately selected play lists for the week with much overlap and no bands that haven't sold their souls to a distributor that's in favor. DJs... seriously, a speech generator from the 90s could suffice for all the "insight" given.

      Pandora's lists and comparisons have to be compiled by the same people that do the corporate lists, either that or there really isn't any decent new music being made (which I find hard to believe). Spotify doesn't seem to be any better. And something that really brings home how bad the music situation is today is Ed Sheeran who virtually swept the charts with all his songs. Elvis, Johnny Cash, Beatles, Stones or even Garth Brooks or any top talent artist you can name has done that, and those all have more talent than Ed by far and were giants with instant hits and mass appeal.

    22. Re:Original programming.. by Strider- · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And this is how we wind up with society as it is today. IMNSHO, it's important for people to be informed about things, and events, even if they are outside their interests or something they disagree with. If you just listen to content that you want to listen to, you're going to miss the larger picture. There is more to the world than what we are interested in personally, and it's valuable to know at least something about it.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    23. Re:Original programming.. by MerlTurkin · · Score: 1

      And commercials. SHITLOADS of commercials.

    24. Re:Original programming.. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      And this is how we wind up with society as it is today. IMNSHO, it's important for people to be informed about things, and events

      Do you have any evidence whatsoever that people were better informed at some point in the past?

      even if they are outside their interests

      I fail to see how forcing myself to listen to high school football scores is going to make the world a better place.

      you're going to miss the larger picture.

      CNN slogan is "give us 20 minutes and we'll give you the world". I doubt if that kind of shallow journalism is really giving you "the larger picture".

    25. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "problem" with radio is, like any scheduled programming, it does not meet current expectations of choice.
      Add to this all the fucking advertisements, or political propaganda in some states, you have a shit soup that undrinkable.
      Please turn off broadcast TV and "Radio", and use Fiber Optics for fixed point to point communication with packets, not analog wtf.
      Video killed the radio star and Internet "killed" them all. ....owa, owa

    26. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those radio plays were really good. Sometimes they had a five minute play, like the audio version of a cartoon strip using regional/national accents.

      Tuning in manually using a short-wave world radio was fun too. But with the internet, you can do that and even more; listen to FM/AM stations that stream live across the Internet. Anywhere; California, New York, Texas, Canada, Eastern Europe.

    27. Re:Original programming.. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is you've set up an echo chamber?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    28. Re:Original programming.. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      No direct cost to user (data costs money for many).

      That's the dealbreaker. The problem with 'streaming' anything, is that it COSTS, COSTS, COSTS. You're paying for the connection. You're paying for the streaming service -- or you're taking an inferior streaming product for free. It's all a deal-breaker for me; I don't want to pay for ANY of it. I LIKE BROADCAST RADIO. It would sadden me greatly for it to go away -- but I would NOT pay for streaming digital anything. I'd sooner drive in silence, or bring my own music. I'm getting sick and bloody well tired of everything being monetized to death, by the way.

    29. Re:Original programming.. by swillden · · Score: 1

      The problem with 'streaming' anything, is that it COSTS, COSTS, COSTS. You're paying for the connection.

      The GP's point is that this will change, or at least that prices will drop to where it's negligible.

      You're paying for the streaming service -- or you're taking an inferior streaming product for free.

      The free services are superior to broadcast radio. The paid services are dramatically better than broadcast radio. I long swore I would never pay a subscription for music, until I tried it. Having access to basically all music published is so much better I can't see ever going back. If I were so poor I had to skip one or two meals per month to pay for my subscription music service, it would be worth it.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    30. Re: Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Radio was once upon a time a nice thing listen to. I gave up on all the local stations. Playlists are horrific here playing the same handful of songs every day. Events the few good stations left in the country are not what they once were. College and independent stations have a few decent options but the one I like are too far away so I have to stream them. WXPN, WBJB, WXRV are about it for me any other suggestions?

    31. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sounds like radio reaches further, is less complex, free, and you can even consume it as an AC instead of becoming the product. Maybe there is something to be said for nostalgia.

    32. Re:Original programming.. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is you've set up an echo chamber?

      Compared to talk radio? No. Not at all.

    33. Re:Original programming.. by dryeo · · Score: 1

      There are advantages of radio. Try throwing a streaming device together out of a diode, a capacitor and some wire. Try streaming in the middle of nowhere, or like me, 40 miles from the big city (lots of my neighbours commute the hour+ to downtown). Try streaming during a natural disaster such as is happening in Houston now. And, at least where I am, streaming is expensive.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    34. Re:Original programming.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you just listen to content that you want to listen to, you're going to miss the larger picture.

      If you just listen to content that someone else want you to listen to, you're also going to miss the larger picture.

      The problem is all "news media" (radio, TV, newspapers) these days are so obviously biased that it no longer worth the effort to pay attention to them and try to figure out how they have misled you.

      It is more effectively to browse the web for news around the world.

    35. Re:Original programming.. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Listening to "live" music through a radio is sort of pointless

      Sounds like the only "live" music you listen to is bands playing their set pieces as if reading from music.The beauty of live music is the variance you get when bands decide to cover others, try songs they've never played, or just plain mess around with songs they are famous for.

    36. Re:Original programming.. by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      Same as video stores, it's not like anyone doesn't watch movies / series etc. it's just there is no longer a need to get in your car and go fetch it. Nobody wants their product anymore.

      Book shops and eventually libraries are going to go the way of the dodo as well, pity about the libraries though, have lots of fond memories of libraries. But come to think of it, I live a block and a half from our local library and I've only been in it twice. First time to register, second time to take the books back, never even read one though, found a digital copy and put it on my kindle.

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    37. Re:Original programming.. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Live music on the radio is a pleasant surprise.

      Can't say I enjoy it, all the background noise, etc. What makes live music in person enjoyable is the experience of the shared emotion, and enthusiasm of people in the room etc,

      Live music on a radio always comes across as cheesy to me.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    38. Re:Original programming.. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      The beauty of live music is the variance you get when bands decide to cover others, try songs they've never played.

      I don't think many bands will just start playing songs live that they've never played before, I'm sure there's a fair bit of rehearsal goes into every performance.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    39. Re:Original programming.. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      The problem is the internet can do anything that radio can. Radio has only a few advantages:

      1)

      But of course, the big disadvantage to Radio: ads.

      The article talks about Gen Z turning their back on radio. I'm the tail end of Gen X and I havn't listened to tradition AM/FM radio in almost a decade. I can't get past ads. They're awful. I just can't do it.

      A few years ago I tried watching over-the-air TV as well, couldn't do it. I can't tolerate the ads. Once you get used to no ads, either from Netflix, or Sirius, there's no going back.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    40. Re:Original programming.. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If you want to be pedantic about language then sure. More power to you.

    41. Re:Original programming.. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Live music on a radio always comes across as cheesy to me.

      Do you not buy live albums? Same thing, no?

      Hell, one of my favorite albums of all time is the live '69 tour of the Stones on "Get Yer Ya Yas Out"....you can almost hear the sweat dripping on the fret boards...raw and powerful setlist.

      Some bands are great live...some suck, especially the lip sync'ers.

      ;)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    42. Re:Original programming.. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Live music is cool when you're actually there. Listening to "live" music through a radio is sort of pointless.

      The problem there is that live music isn't live for the most part. Most artists you hear on the radio these days are so auto-tuned that they are physically incapable of reproducing the same sounds. So they end up miming everything, concerts have become a carefully choreographed pantomime rather than live music.

      Most concerts I go to are for rock/metal (occasionally the odd jazz, latin jazz or even to the orchestra) and you know it's live because you can hear the artist make a mistake. They'll drop a note, miss a word or line or do something spontaneous, like dropping a random solo into a song. No one cares if they drop a note or make a mistake either.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    43. Re:Original programming.. by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      All of those are bad for business, which is why OTA radio (and TV) is dying.

      What killed radio was the FCC removing the ban on allowing a few companies to own all the stations in one area, as well as a limit on stations owned. This homogenized radio, and turned most stations into basically a 50 song MP3 collection set on shuffle with ads and a DJ announcing a few things. For "rock" stations, any music post 1980-1990 was removed, leaving the same 60s-70s crap playing. Of course, this pretty much moved people to iTunes and other places for new stuff to listen to.

      It used to be that radio actually played new stuff, and was a central point where people would actually discuss a new band or a new song. Those days are gone.

      The ironic thing is that there are tons of FM radio tuners out there. Most Android phones can do FM radio, if used with headphones. However, with the market the way it is, we likely won't see much change, as the days of independent stations are gone.

      Now, the finger pointing. Easy enough -- the FCC. There is a reason there were regulations on keeping one entity from owning stations, and when that was removed, it collapsed the entire industry and created monopolies.

    44. Re:Original programming.. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Live music on a radio always comes across as cheesy to me.

      Do you not buy live albums? Same thing, no?

      I HAAAAATE live albums. On the rare occasion when I bought a live album by mistake I've been royally pissed off.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    45. Re:Original programming.. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      For me, the importance of radio is current affairs and news. But then, I might be an old fogey at this point, as my car's radio is pretty much stuck on CBC Radio One (I'm Canadian), or one of the local NPR affiliates when I'm south of the border.

      This kind of thing only goes to show the age of commercial radio is pretty much over.

      Commercial radio only provides 3 things people want, music, news and talk-back.
      1. News: With far more sources of news, live traffic updates on our GPS's, so on and so forth radio stations are now behind most sources of news. In the olden days before the interwebs this used to be the only way to find out live game scores but that's no longer the case.

      2. Talk back radio: pretty much the only thing that keeps them in business, angry old people who aren't savvy enough with computers to use the comments section of the Daily Mail. This is literally a dying business, as younger angry racists/xenophobes are capable of draging their knuckes across the keyboard to produce a badly spelled, all caps locked, badly thought out rant based on myths, propaganda and a warped world view.

      3. Music. Long since overtaken by these little devices in our cars that play music from other sources like round plastic discs, portable memory devices and our telephones. Beyond this we have satellite radio that has many more stations that can be tailored to our tastes and streaming services that allow us to pick our music. I want to labour on the point of music, commercial radio now only plays the same 10 odd songs on repeat, this will be the latest pop crap straight from mass production. This is the main reason that they're losing audiences, I have an eclectic mix of rock, metal (from hair to death), Latin jazz and classical on a USB stick in my car. Ignoring the fact I wont ever hear Megadeth, let alone Marilyn Manson on the radio (the poor old Christian Conservatives shit kittens all the way to the stations owner), I doubt I'll even hear the Foo Fighters from FM most stations because they aren't in the top 10 charts that are made up each week despite Everlong being a legendary classic.

      These three things are only there to bring our ears to the one thing they want us to listen to, advertisements. These over the years have become louder, more obnoxious and more insulting. After the crappy music repeats, this is what is driving away customers. People who still want the randomness of new music are switching to satellite and DAB stations where it's not so commercially controlled, similarly there are those who have moved to Spotify, Pandora and the like and the rest of us have MP3's in our cars and on our portable devices which we listen to. Commercial radio is a dying industry and that is entirely because they are unwilling to change. Ultimately they're the start of an entire dying content industry, dying because it is unwilling to change.

      The A/B/CBC's will likely be the last to turn off the FM transmitters because they provide better and local content without the constant and extreme annoyance of commercials.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    46. Re:Original programming.. by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I HAAAAATE live albums. On the rare occasion when I bought a live album by mistake I've been royally pissed off.

      Might I ask what you don't like about them?

      Is it that they don't sound exactly like the studio versions?

      Do you not like when they improv on stage (Zeppelin was notorious for this in their old 3+ hour concerns in their heyday)....

      Just curious....and do take in mind, I only really know of the bands of old, I dunno much of what comes out today....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    47. Re:Original programming.. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      The GP's point is that this will change, or at least that prices will drop to where it's negligible.

      it would have to be ZERO to be acceptable to me.

      The free services are superior to broadcast radio.

      LOL no, I've tried them, I think they suck.

    48. Re:Original programming.. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Internet radio, like we had about 10 years ago wasn't bad, it was more or less like broadcast radio, and I actually used it. But the RIAA destroyed that forever, then brought in their shitty 'streaming' services. it's not anywhere near the same thing, as I've said I tried it and I thought it sucked. Also as I've already said if they killed broadcast FM radio, there's no way I'd pay for their shitty streaming services, I'd either drive around in silence or bring my own music and screw them. 'Newer' isn't always 'better' and Millennials who don't know how to read an analog clock face and are convinced that if something isn't digital and internet-connected then it must be 'for old people' and 'old fashioned' and 'stupid' are the ones who are actually stupid so far as I'm concerned.

    49. Re:Original programming.. by MooseMiester · · Score: 1

      Tom Petty was right

      Well you can't turn him into a company man
      You can't turn him into a whore
      And the boys upstairs just don't understand anymore
      Well the top brass don't like him talking so much,
      And he won't play what they say to play
      And he don't want to change what don't need to change
      There goes the last DJ
      Who plays what he wants to play
      And says what he wants to say, hey hey hey?
      And there goes your freedom of choice
      There goes the last human voice
      There goes the last DJ
      Well some folks say they're gonna hang him so high
      'Cause you just can't do what he did
      There are some things you just can't put in the minds of those kids
      As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
      How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free

      --
      Murphy was an optimist
    50. Re:Original programming.. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I HAAAAATE live albums. On the rare occasion when I bought a live album by mistake I've been royally pissed off.

      Might I ask what you don't like about them?

      Is it that they don't sound exactly like the studio versions?

      Do you not like when they improv on stage (Zeppelin was notorious for this in their old 3+ hour concerns in their heyday)....

      Just curious....and do take in mind, I only really know of the bands of old, I dunno much of what comes out today....

      #1 peeve is all the background noise. All the clapping or cheering and whistling over tracks.
      #2 is they are a lot more flawed. It frequently takes many cuts to produce a perfect track. Things with prominent vocals with many musicians are especially bad. It annoys me when the singer is flat (as many are live). Many singers aren't really that good when they don't have the ability to re-record a section a dozen times.
      #3 the quality of the recording is usually lower in general. Cracks, pops, feeback whistles.
      #4 yeah, I hate the long improvs too.
      #5 often they use a smaller variety of instruments. The pieces become much less complex, often simplified down to guitar and drum.
      #6 Musicians talking before, after, or during the tracks. Get's tiring after the first time you listen to the track.

      I feel like I've been cheated if I buy an album start it up and then I hear cracks, pops, and people cheering.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    51. Re:Original programming.. by azadrozny · · Score: 1

      Regarding Pandora, I have noticed that if you "over tune" a channel, by rating a lot of songs, it will go into regular loops of 40-60 songs. The sweet spot seem to be somewhere between 5 and 15 rated songs.

    52. Re: Original programming.. by baristabrian · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Variety? Greatly overrated when all you get is a wider array of shit. Case in point? 1967. AM. One chart. ONE! Billboard didn't have a zillion charts back then. Top 40 was Top 40. There weren't 109 Grammy categories then. Three generations were sitting around a pool in Northern Wisconsin listening to ONE radio station on ONE radio. Same songs played over and over. Nobody complained. Every other song, it seemed, was *somebody's* favorite. HINT: it's ok to have more than one "favorite." Now, 90 percent ...NO, 95 percent of all music being produced is shit. Now? We just have a bigger selection of shit music. The "number one" hit on ONE chart is totally obscure (or despised) by listeners of another type (true "Top 40" ?) music. Back in the day? White boys like me were listening to Motown. Not because "they" were "Black" but because the music was great. Now? I think 99 percent of what is called "rap" sucks. HINT: it's the so-called music. And, btw, "Country" music is not much better.

      --
      -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
    53. Re: Original programming.. by baristabrian · · Score: 0

      "Obscure" does NOT equal "good."

      --
      -- "I'm not in a hurry; I'm in Hawaii." The Homeless Guy
    54. Re:Original programming.. by swillden · · Score: 1

      it's not anywhere near the same thing, as I've said I tried it and I thought it sucked

      In what way is radio better than Pandora?

      Newer' isn't always 'better' and Millennials...

      Don't play the "Millennial" card on me. Odds are decent that I'm older than you are.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    55. Re:Original programming.. by swillden · · Score: 1

      The GP's point is that this will change, or at least that prices will drop to where it's negligible.

      it would have to be ZERO to be acceptable to me.

      When you have unlimited data which you use for everything else, the incremental cost of streaming music will be zero. It already is when you're at home.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    56. Re:Original programming.. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I'm in my early 50's.

      Pandora is precisely what I tried because everyone recommended it. I didn't like what they were playing, and it was both highly annoying to have to reach over to 'skip' things, and it only let me skip so much. After not too long of that nonsense I decided I didn't like it and killed it. I do not have or WANT a smartphone and do not have or want internet in my pickup and I do not like these streaming services, so I don't kinow what it is you think you can do to 'convince' me I'm wrong. I like broadcast FM radio just fine, I can channel surf around commercials, or just turn the volume down for a few minutes if I can't find something I like. If I'm somewhere there are no good stations to listen to I'll bring my own music and listen to that, or just drive in silence. I do not like or want 'streaming' services, I think they suck ass and want nothing to do with them, I don't see how anyone can think they're any better than broadcast radio. Honestly I think you're all fools for paying for any of that; you pay for internet, you pay for streaming, and you PAY and PAY and PAY ad infinitum. Why not just buy music you like and listen to that if you're so picky about what you listen to? How is having some algorithm on some shitty 'streaming' service choose what you're hearing any different than a DJ at a radio station picking from a program directors' playlist? Spoiler: It's not any different, somehow you've been convinced that it is and they take your money. I can ignore commercials on the radio, can you ignore money disappearing out of your bank account every month? Doesn't matter how much it is you're still paying MONEY to be fed not much different than a radio station will feed you. Honestly, seriously, I think it's rather dumb.

    57. Re:Original programming.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Now I just listen to audiobooks. Costs about the same per month.

      I've borrowed them from the library. That's even cheaper. Of course, they don't have as good a selection as with dead-tree books, but there's lots worth listening to.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    58. Re: Original programming.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      All news is biased. If you find one that seems unbiased, it means you've found one whose bias agrees with yours, and you're in danger of being in a cognitive cluster and not learning things. Once you understand the bias, you can get value out of any good news source.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    59. Re:Original programming.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Libraries often lend ebooks nowadays. They're modernizing and hanging in there.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    60. Re:Original programming.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You're paying for the connection anyway. Most radio lives by advertising, and you're paying for it with time and attention. Some (like NPR) gets money from other sources, including talking people into becoming members. I'd rather pay a little money to do without the advertising, myself.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    61. Re:Original programming.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If you listen to content that lots of different people with different viewpoints want you to listen to, you're going to learn something.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    62. Re: Original programming.. by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      All news is biased. If you find one that seems unbiased, it means you've found one whose bias agrees with yours,

      We are only talking about one blatantly biased source here.

      . Once you understand the bias, you can get value out of any good news source.

      I never claimed there is no value, but there is also a negative impact of bias. Which is why they won't get my donation. One could also argue that a publicly funded entity like NPR should strive to be neutral.

      I assume, from your statements, that you never have any issues with biased reporting because, as you say, you can take value from it.

    63. Re:Original programming.. by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      200 stations? Yea. Sort of like the 500 channels I have from satellite. 500 channels and only like 3 or 4 that are actually worth watching. Sometimes I can't find a single thing to watch. Everything sucks. I had XM for a while, same thing. Sure it was great for a while. After the first year it was too much like on the air radio to me so I dropped it.

    64. Re: Original programming.. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I've had personal experience with stories covered by mainstream journalism, so I have limited trust in any media. I've sought out news sources with different biases, which is the best you're going to be able to do.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    65. Re: Original programming.. by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I've had personal experience with stories covered by mainstream journalism, so I have limited trust in any media. I've sought out news sources with different biases, which is the best you're going to be able to do.

      I agree with that. I've never seen a mainstream media outlet that wasn't clearly biased on one side or the other. As for any given one, its quite easy to see when alternate views are not presented, or not adequately presented, or purposely minimized or misrepresented.

  2. Gen X here by future+assassin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Last time I listened to the radio in a car or at home that wasn't by accident was 1997, even then it was only because I was in someone else car or at someones house. Before that I'd only really listen to talk radio like Art Bell or shows like Brave New Waves on CBC Canada or Chris Sheppard Pirate Radio since it was hard to access electronic music where I was.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Gen X here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gen X here as well. There are far too many commercials on the radio to make it even remotely entertaining. I finally canceled my cable as well due to too many commercials (even with the PVR it's a pain to skip through them all). Lesson: commercials need to be as least obtrusive as possible or people will look elsewhere.

    2. Re:Gen X here by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      I listen to radio in one of four cases:
      1. I am at work. I want some music as background, do not want to spend any time choosing the songs and am not really annoyed by the commercials. The radio is free, does not require internet connection, and my favorite station plays some good music.
      2. I am driving a short distance. I want music as background, but, since I am driving a short distance (to a store etc) I do not want to spend time choosing the music, bringing tapes, connecting a minidisc player etc. Also, they sometimes warn about a traffic jam.
      3. It's weekend and I am doing something overnight - at night the radio stations I listen to have no commercials and I sometimes hear some good music (which I may sometimes record to a tape, depending on what I am doing at the time).
      4. I am doing something at home for 5 - 20 minutes, want some music as background, but do not really want to choose (because I might end up spending more time choosing than listening in this case), so I just turn on the radio.

    3. Re:Gen X here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Commercial radio sucks, and has done for a long time because of the obnoxious levels of advertising and DJs that talk too much, and obsessively repetitive play lists.

      Late last year I bought a used "new car" that had SirusXM included in the factory sound system, so I figured I'll try out their cheapest option at $6 a month, 6 months later I'll say its good enough, no ads, DJs on the stations I like are not too chatty, better coverage than FM stations with a few exceptions.

    4. Re:Gen X here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gen X here. Listen to radio quite often. In the car, at home and especially when watching football (better announcers)...yeah, I turn down the sound on the TV and play the radio while watching the game. I dig radio, it's a great tech that just works. Turn it on and tune in, no fuss, no buffering, no digital distortion (ok, there can be analog distortion if your antenna isn't big enough or pointed wrong, but that's an easy fix).

    5. Re:Gen X here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not want to spend time choosing the music, bringing tapes, connecting a minidisc player etc.

      Greetings time traveller. You may not be aware yet, but we are discussing the 2010's here.

    6. Re:Gen X here by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, the lightbulb on my time machine burned out, indicating a wrong year, let's try that again:

      "I do not want to spend time choosing the music, opening apps, going through menus, searching for folders and playlists, waiting for Youtube to load, searching for the next song on Youtube, connecting my cellphone etc."

      Honestly though I find tapes and MDs to be more convenient in addition to the fact that I already have a lot of tapes with the music I like. I think I could get the same songs on digital (without spending weeks or months recording from the tapes), then make "virtual tapes" - playlists, record all to a USB drive or a SD card and play that on a compatible player or a phone, selecting the playlist I want, but that seems just too much effort, when I can just grab a tape or a minidisc and a player. Recording from a CD/record I just bought (or MP3/flac/wav I just downloaded) to either a tape or MD is not that inconvenient compared to recording from the tapes to a PC format.

      Recording music from a record or other analog source is easier with a tape, recording from a PC is easier with a MD, or at least faster. But both tapes and MDs have advantages and disadvantages for me compared to each other, so I use them both depending on circumstance.

    7. Re:Gen X here by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 1

      I pretty much came here to post the same thing. Also gen-X here and I never listen to the radio. There's just zero compelling content that catches my attention. With my car supporting Android Auto in my dash, it's also even easier to consume streaming media like Pandora or stuff on Google Play Music. Hell, my car has a navigation system I think I've used twice since I got it, the rest of the time I use Waze these days.

      As others have noted here, the problem isn't radio as a technology; rather it's the fact that many (most?) of the radio channels in the USA are owned by the same company and they make sure to plan their content so it's as generic as you can possibly get. I'll bet I could probably turn on the radio today for the first time in about 5 years and quite likely sing along to many of the songs... not because they're the same old songs (though that's also a problem) but because so many of the more recent songs are generated by an algorithm that's easily predictable and thus I could make a damned good guess as to the next verse even halfway through the previous one. OK, I'm definitely overstating it a bit... but only a bit.

      There's just zero compelling content. And it's not that I'm "old"... even the stations ostensibly targeted toward my age ("Best of the 80's, 90's and 2000's!!!!!") are all literally so homogenous that I can't tell them apart when switching channels. They probably all have the same playlist offset by an hour or so interspersed with some random guy talking or (more likely) ads.

      I will admit that music discovery is a lot harder these days than it used to be. Maybe I'm just not into the right services but I find that discovering new bands and new styles of music that appeal to me tend to happen pretty randomly. Way back when, it was a matter of discovering a song on the radio and waiting until the song ended for the DJ to tell you who it was... then you would go out and buy an album. Yeah, that model is dead... but I do find it a little sad that I don't have many other "low impact" discovery methods these days... the ones we have all require you to sign up for some account, get some app on your phone that's buggy and crashes often (and probably doesn't work with Android Auto... the one place I most often listen to music being in the car) and then have all your listening habits tracked even if all you're doing is just trying to discover new music. Yeah, Pandora is one that does this and is technically OK for discovery... but many of the stations in Pandora are starting to get pretty generic too and as many others do, I tend to drift back toward the same "comfortable" channels when driving where it feels sometimes like the entire station is on one endless loop with nothing added in years.

      As it stands, a few more independent radio stations wouldn't go amiss. You know... real ones that aren't syndicated crap. But the problem of course then becomes advertising, bringing in listeners and so on. We have one or two of them here where I live but their listenership is pretty bad and they frequently go out of business to give their air time to either another independent that'll fail because they can't figure out a business model, or more frequently these days they'll lose their air time to Clear Channel and be replaced with some other generic station.

    8. Re:Gen X here by mjwx · · Score: 1

      CBC Canada

      Surely saying CBC Canada is a bit redundant?

      Doesn't CBC stand for Canadian Broadcasting Corporation? Much the same as BBC stands for British Broadcasting Corporation. Is it actually broadcast for anywhere else (even then shouldn't it be called the CBC World Service like the BBC).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:Gen X here by eam3 · · Score: 1

      I've given up on terrestrial radio in south Florida. It seems like every station only owns 10 or 12 CDs at most, and continually play anywhere from 1 to 3 songs from those CDs on constant rotation. I also have not willingly listened to the radio in well over a decade. Between satellite radio (which can be repetitive as well but I can skip the usual 80:20 commercial:actual music programming ratio) and my own collection of MP3s, I have not gone anywhere near FM.

    10. Re:Gen X here by future+assassin · · Score: 1

      Well if this was a Canadian reader only website but being as its not, anyone who is not Canadian probably won't know CBC is.

      --
      by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  3. Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Turns out letting one company own all the radio stations in the country and letting all music be chosen by an algorithm that compares music to existing hits is not a great idea.

    Radio will come back when different stations are run differently.

    1. Re:Monopoly by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      That's why I think the big commercial players will slowly die out, but college radio stations and things like that will continue to thrive. There are better ways of delivering payola than radio now, so there's not a lot of incentive for the media companies to support it once the audience goes away.

    2. Re:Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Radio will come back when different stations are run differently.

      I sincerely doubt this. Anecdotally, I once volunteered at a 50KW FM station where the University sold the tower and license against the wishes of (most of) the students. After several years of a web-/app-only "radio" station, the University got a LPFM license. Mind you, that's weaker than the on-campus translator of the 50KW station that had been licensed due to skyline interference. Nonetheless, the students were all euphoric. Their ability to broadcast to >8M people in a huge radius was replaced with one perhaps slightly larger than campus.

      Point being, it was more important to the students to be able to say they were on the radio than to actually reach people via radio or to listen to the radio themselves.

    3. Re:Monopoly by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      Does this means the spammers will eventually give up on Usenet's non-binaries groups and human users can reclaim them?

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    4. Re:Monopoly by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 1

      ... but college radio stations and things like that will continue to thrive.

      Not at my former college. The f-ers in Administration sold the radio license to someone else, because "streaming is good enough now".

    5. Re:Monopoly by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      That's why I think the big commercial players will slowly die out, but college radio stations and things like that will continue to thrive. There are better ways of delivering payola than radio now, so there's not a lot of incentive for the media companies to support it once the audience goes away.

      As much as I would love to see that happen it is doubtful that it will go that way. They will probably appropriate the spectrum and sell it off to the highest bidder. Just like they did with the analog TV spectrum.

      Shame too. Some of the best memories come from listening to college radio at 1 am and being able to actually call the Dj and talk to him/her live on the air. Then requesting some obscure track off the b-side of some album to be played. An they would actually play it.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    6. Re: Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usenet has non binaries groups?

    7. Re:Monopoly by SNRatio · · Score: 1

      Radio will come back when different stations are run differently.

      If running radio stations that way was more profitable they would still be run that way.

    8. Re:Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, free market will fix that... or not.

    9. Re:Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I couldn't agree more. The only music radio station I listen to is a small independent station. iHeart and the like are all the same. I live in a major market and the radio stations are all cookie cutter. Horrible...

    10. Re:Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really. Start a station that's heavy on Jazz, or Blues, or whatever. It'll attract that audience, sure, which may only be a single-digit percentage of the market.

      Two years later, management comes in and sees no more growth. Sure, there's a dedicated audience, but it's not growing.

      So management opens up to other, more mainstream music; the special stuff now only runs in the small hours. And in the end we get another indistinguishable station.

      Also happens with Irish Pubs where Irish music only plays on the slowest night of the week.

    11. Re:Monopoly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and they don't have Guiness on tap either.

  4. Streaming music by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I like to listen to live streams of music, even if it is just a playlist. And maybe with some announcements along the way about what I'm listening to, some little tidbits of trivia about the artist and song.

    As an listener I do not care that it comes over analog FM, or a digital system like HD radio, or over the Internet. Whatever is convenient and reliable in my car. (FM)

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  5. Part new technology, part lower quality by Zephyn · · Score: 2

    Yes, radio is an older technology - one option among many. But it's also the only one where you sometimes have to sit through massive amounts of advertisements to get to the actual entertainment. The ads in the free versions of apps like Pandora are nowhere near as often or as annoying.

    1. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by psergiu · · Score: 1

      Yep.
      I have a radio in my car that i sometimes turn on during my daily commute. If it's in the middle of a "commercial-free hour of music offered by X" - it stays on. As soon as the 10-minute ad breaks start playing - off it goes - i'd rather listen to the engine hum...
      Thank you X for that commercial free hour of music - i might check your products. But no sale from me for the other ones.

      --
      1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
    2. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Radio stations play all those ads because they can. I usually flip he station when ads come on anyhow. If competition eats away market share, then they may reduce ads. The alternatives to listening to the radio while driving either require a subscription or selecting and preparing material before the drive (unless you like the same songs over and over).

    3. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I listen to the radio to and from work. I know their commercial schedule and when an ad comes on, I turn the damn thing off. I turn it back on about the time the ads are over.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    4. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have 20 presents on my radio. I just next-channel when an ad appears.

    5. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by Zephyn · · Score: 1

      I have 20 presents on my radio. I just next-channel when an ad appears.

      How do you see over the dash?

    6. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So like magazines, the world wide web, broadcast television, cable television and email, radio as a communication medium is fine in and of itself but goes south and it ruined by too much entitled, attention conscripting advertising?

      I think I see a pattern here and it doesn't really have anything to do with radio vs streaming.

    7. Re:Part new technology, part lower quality by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I have 20 presents on my radio. I just next-channel when an ad appears.

      That's great if there are 20 radio stations in your area you enjoy. Around here it's all rap, hip hop, or modern country. None of which I can stand. I'd be lucky if I found 3 stations worthy of a preset.

      And then there is the fact that all stations tend to go to adverts at about the same time.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  6. impending resurgence by Narcocide · · Score: 0

    Just like Vinyl, Millennials will eventually get a clue about FM radio as soon as they realize it's exponentially cheaper to produce, doesn't count against their bandwidth cap, and has no conceivable way to build in copy protection.

    1. Re:impending resurgence by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      Just like TV, millennials (and others) tuned out because of the insane amount of ads and/or other crap, and they are not coming back.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:impending resurgence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vinyl. Top fucking keks. You fedora wearing mother fuckers are keeping that one alive in the name of "fidelity". It's 6% market share, and half of that is millennials that will drop it once they figure why we stopped buying them years ago in the first place and the edgy novelty factor wears off.

    3. Re:impending resurgence by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      as soon as they realize it's exponentially cheaper to produce

      What? How is licensing, maintaining, and running a radio station "exponentially cheaper" than running a website?

    4. Re:impending resurgence by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      it's exponentially cheaper to produce

      Are you talking about the hardware or the publishing? If the hardware, that's a iffy position unless you are mass maker of radios. While it is cute to compare something like Pandora or whatever to FM Radio, it would be more accurate to compare to HD Radio which has way more complicated and expensive circuits to implement. Many of those circuits are also under patents for HD Radio, so to build a radio it would be prudent to include licensing costs. If we're talking the publishing, the Internet is vastly cheaper to make an MP3 and share on the Internet versus trying to broadcast via FM.

      doesn't count against their bandwidth cap

      No argument here

      no conceivable way to build in copy protection

      Again, that's if we're talking FM radio. If we're talking HD radio then it's a different story.

      Now I can only speak on my own behalf, but the biggest reason I don't listen to radio is that it is mostly ads. About 20 minutes of music and about 40 minutes of ads. And in the time that they do broadcast content, it's the same eleven songs that they've played for the last three months. This isn't like OTA HDTV, there's ads, yes, but in terms of absolute minutes of content vs absolute minutes of ads, there's no contest. The TV broadcasts vastly less ads than radio. So I actually value OTA HDTV simply because the content isn't drowned out by ads. I also like some of the shows that come on TV so that adds to the value. Additionally, TV isn't showing the same episode of CSI every other hour, so that really amps the value up.

      Radio, at least for myself, is a product that has zero value because of decisions made by the broadcaster. The cost of the content is irrelevant here because personally I see zero value in the content. So the argument that it's cheaper and costs me less in bandwidth have no meaning. Zero cost for content that has zero value is just a wash. Radio's problems are a product of bad management, not one of cost to end consumer.

      That's just my two cents and I'm a firm Gen X here. I can't really blame Millennials or Gen Z for not listening to radio. It literally is the Applebee's Effect going on here.

    5. Re:impending resurgence by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Heh! I used to listen to Coast-to-Coast when I had insomnia. I quit because everytime I turned on the radio, they were having commercials. I'm not even sure they still have Coast-to-Coast. AFAICT, they have commercials the entire 4 hours!

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    6. Re:impending resurgence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then once they've all shifted to something else, the ads will flood that too. At least with radio, you can change the station when an ad comes on. That will surely be corrected in all new media incarnations.

    7. Re:impending resurgence by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      I just want to know why, when there are just two data points, the OP chose to extrapolate with an exponential curve instead of a line. You could just as well say "it's hyperbolically cheaper to produce". That'd probably be better anyway, given that the phrase itself is meant as simple hyperbole.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    8. Re:impending resurgence by sheph · · Score: 2

      It's most certainly about the fidelity. As someone pushing 50 I have been collecting vinyl since I was a kid. I'm glad to see it coming back. It doesn't really bother me if you don't like it. If you can't distinguish the difference between an LP and MP3 that's your loss I'd say. Granted LP is not portable, requires a really good system to fully appreciate, takes up more space, and degrades over time. All of those are true. But for myself I find it to be a superior format. I like being able to have the full size cover art, and words I can actually see. As my eyes get older I really appreciate that more and more. Usually I record it into the PC using a firewire interface at 96k/24 to a wav file. And then file the record and play the wavs. In this way I reduce wear, and get my portability. And have sound quality that is far superior to CD let alone MP3. DVD-audio is the only digital format that comes close.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    9. Re: impending resurgence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that LPs are better than CDs; in fact, LPs are objectively inferior as a sound reproduction mechanism. MUCH inferior.

      What CAN give an LP of a given recording better sound than the CD version is the MASTERING. If the person doing the mastering of the CD is either a moron or under orders from the music label to make it LOUD with no dynamic range, then yes, the LP (if it is mastered more tastefully) can sound better.

      In short, CDs are a very high fidelity medium, and they will faithfully record CRAP **IF** that's what you put on them.

    10. Re: impending resurgence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My 14 year old has been buying his albums on vinyl, and it wasn't my idea. I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

    11. Re: impending resurgence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, well then your ancedotal experience is a fucking paradigm changer. Your 14 year old also probably jerks his shit to twistys. His tastes will change.

  7. This is mostly radio's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Part of the reason for decline in younger radio listeners that major stations rarely plays music outside of three genres: country, classic rock, and pop and even then a short list of popular songs are recycled endlessly. Nobody my age discovers new music on the radio because the radio never plays new music.

    1. Re:This is mostly radio's fault by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      If you live near Heartlandburg try to catch Rex Bob Lowenstein's show on W.A.N.T.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  8. Generic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm in my 40's and have listened to radio for most of my life. I find the radio stations in the past 10 years to have become rather generic. The hosts all seem the same, they play all the same songs... Until the ad for the radio station pops on with it's call sign and name, I've usually no idea which station it is, to be honest. This is probably because the radio stations in my area are all owned by a few, large communications companies.

    1. Re: Generic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are non-generic stations some places. Local station here does pop in the morning, jazz for lunch, country in the afternoon, pop for drive time, specialty stuff in the evenings and oldies a lot of the weekend. With local interviews, local sports, and some syndicated programs as well. Run by the owner and far as I can tell about three other people, transmits on am, fm, and streaming. Course it's a small town.

  9. What does it offer? by Translation+Error · · Score: 1

    What does radio offer that the other options don't? Annoying commercials, distortion, and lack of playlist control aren't exactly compelling.

    --
    When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
    1. Re:What does it offer? by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      Lots of ads for the local strip clubs, gold buyers, and paycheck advance shops!

    2. Re:What does it offer? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      No monthly subscription fee.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:What does it offer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like listening to FM radio when traveling. I'll find cute localish stations with derpy local news and terrible local advertisements. It's a nice break from the same songs I've heard before.

    4. Re: What does it offer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is also why, I suspect, they're pushing digital radio..... So they can eventually encrypt it and require a subscription.

  10. Useless ClearChannel stations by CrashNBrn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    AM/FM radio is in the midst of a massive drop-off as a music-discovery tool

    Radio in the US hasn't been a "Music-Discovery Tool" for the last 10-20 years since ClearChannel acquired nearly every FM station and made DJ's irrelevant.

    1. Re:Useless ClearChannel stations by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      Yes, in retrospect, the ClearChannel takeover really did mark a definite point when radio took a dive.

    2. Re:Useless ClearChannel stations by dtmos · · Score: 4, Informative

      This, although Clear Channel changed its name to iHeartMedia in 2014. The Telecommunications Act of 1996, which allowed individual entities to own far more broadcast stations than before -- as well as cross-ownership of media -- led to the homogenization of the radio bands: The stations in each format all sound the same, wherever one goes in the country, since they're substantially all owned by one owner, and there is substantially zero innovation in either programming or technology.

    3. Re:Useless ClearChannel stations by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Yes, in retrospect, the ClearChannel takeover really did mark a definite point when radio took a dive.

      Yeah, I think you nailed it dead on there. Ten years ago I would have laughed at you if you would have told me that I would be paying 15 bucks a month for a streaming music service. Now, I do so gladly. I play spotify 8 to 10 hours a day. No commercials, no jabbering morning show wasting my time, and annoying the hell out of me.. Worth every penny of it to me.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    4. Re:Useless ClearChannel stations by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Ten years ago I would have laughed at you if you would have told me that I would be paying 15 bucks a month for a streaming music service.

      And to think for the last 10 years you could have been enjoying the same service you get with Spotify but from the Zune Pass. But nooooo... everybody had to make fun of and laugh at the Zune and the Zune Pass... /bitterness

      When one of my friends tries to explain to me how great this new Spotify thing is 10 years after I tried to to explain to them how great the Zune Pass was I just give them the death stare.

    5. Re:Useless ClearChannel stations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmm, so it doesn't matter then.

      They are rather big on pushing their streaming stuff anyways.

      and for God's sake use a bigger playlist than the nano iPod they plugged in.....I can get that much variety using a 1993 cassette jukebox i have :/

  11. I blame IHeartRadio (ClearChannel) by BLToday · · Score: 1

    Every station own by iHeartRadio sounds the same. Radio hasn't been a source for new music discovery for years because they're always pushing the same 20 "artists". And I'm damn tire of Ryan Seacrest and Mario Lopez. Taylor Swift had a new song and about an hour later I've heard it 4 times on three different stations.

  12. No shit ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Music discovery as a whole is moving away from AM/FM radio ...

    Music discovery on AM/FM radio is largely a joke, and has been for a long time.

    If you can hear the same song at every hour at the exact same time, there is no discovery, only what is popular.

    Radio did this shit to themselves. How many of us have experienced that really annoying "every time I get into the car the same song is playing". When you can set your watch by the latest hit song, discovery isn't possible.

    I gave up on commercial radio over a decade ago. Because the format is too damned repetitive.

    1. Re:No shit ... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Gota love those program directors who play the most popular stuff in rotation multiple times a day... Yea, they are idiots..

      They are not really idiots, but hey, the way radio is done today is a stupid (but cheap) process and program directors are just one cog in the huge machine. It used to be that the local DJ would pick the records he/she played. Some DJ's where pretty good, so of course somebody analyzed what they played when and came up with a "formula for success" which boils down to playing the most popular material more often. They watch the billboard charts and you can bet the #1 song will get played multiple times a day. They then realized that it's easy to just automate the play lists, playing #1 once an hour, #2 every 2 hours and so forth. This leaves the personal touch at home because you fire the old PD with the grey hair, put a computer program in his place because it's cheaper and stupidity ensues as always happens when the MBA's face a shrinking profit..

      But I gave up on music radio because they never played what I liked. I have an iPod full of stuff I like and it was easy to hook it up to my car radio.. I do listen to News/Talk some on the radio in the car, but I find that pretty repetitive myself.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  13. Radio has never been optimal by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Radio has never been a great way to discover music. It's just that until relatively recently, there hasn't really been any better alternative. Once radio programming started to get centralized, it became even worse.

    At least in the old days there was some sort of connection to the local community. Most radio doesn't even have that much going for it anymore.

    1. Re:Radio has never been optimal by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      I'm not so sure about that.

      There are of course exceptions, but it is not general human nature to widen horizons when given choice.

      I can remember many times in the distant past listening to stations I didn't really like because they were all I could pick up. In doing so, my tastes sometimes changed to include something truly new. My tastes now include rock, classical, blues, jazz and country amongst others.

      Now, one can easily "discover" thousands of rehashes of the same old stuff that they "like". This is not discovery. It is stagnation.

    2. Re:Radio has never been optimal by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Yes, if someone doesn't want to be exposed to new stuff, they can accomplish that equally well on radio or online.

      However, if they do, it's so much easier online that on the radio. First, there's a much wider variety of music available online than there ever was on the radio. Second, there are many services (both streaming and not) that are designed specifically to help you discover new music. Using those, your chances of serendipity are way beyond what was possible with radio.

      In a sense the difference is that online, there is far more easily available and discoverable content than is physically possible with radio. And with good agent software, you can have a personalized "virtual dj" that is better at finding music that both you haven't heard and that you're likely to at least not hate. And that agent isn't worrying about things like pleasing sponsors or trying to push some particular artist.

      That's not even remotely possible on the radio.

    3. Re:Radio has never been optimal by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Never? I remember hearing Jimi Hendrix for the first time on the radio on WNEW NY and I was blown away. Also lots of good music on college radio like PRB Princeton and Pirate Radio(seaton hall).

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    4. Re:Radio has never been optimal by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      Agreed. My point was that people generally do not want to be exposed to new stuff but need it.

      My general observation is that ample, easy choice results in polarization of the population around fewer more radically defined interest areas. Fewer people venture outside of their comfort zone and discover wider horizons, not more as people with the adventurer mindset would hope.

      This is because the choice not to change has always been more attractive to most and is now more available.

      Yes, adventurers are better served now, but they are the few (and decreasing), not the many.

      Now, even some of the adventurers are being led into a false type of adventure - extremacy over breadth. Extremacy feels like adventure but is actually the opposite. It's like diving into a straitjacket.

      Interestingly, the generational change seems to be increasing, possibly in reaction to the greater stagnation of adult change.

    5. Re:Radio has never been optimal by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      Yes, I would say it was never optimal. That's not to say it was never good or that they never play anything unexpected.

      The essential problem with radio is twofold -- the very limited amount of music that it can play (in terms of the number of minutes per day), and the fact that radio stations must maximize audience size to maximize revenue, which seriously restricts the sort of music you'll hear. Top 40 radio has been a thing from very early on.

      College stations and community radio tend to be better about this, but even with them there's a pretty tight filter on what they can and will play.

    6. Re:Radio has never been optimal by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I don't stream music myself, but my children do. I know with some services (Spotify, for instance), there is a measure of serendipity that seems roughly on par with radio. They will pick a stream that is a certain "genre" (I put quote marks around that because the genres are often not what I think of as musical genres) -- but the stream will still come out with the oddball discovery anyway.

      So all may not be entirely lost.

    7. Re:Radio has never been optimal by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Radio has never been a great way to discover music.

      Found the millennial, or maybe you're a Gen Y that probably still fits too.

      Radio most definitely was a great way to discover music. Back when DJs decided what to play, fresh bands sent tapes in to radio stations to get exposure, and the industry wasn't dominated by men in suits.

      It was so prevalent that at one point when music tastes started changing radio stations that would play the new music got outlawed which led to the whole rise of pirate radio.

    8. Re:Radio has never been optimal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Radio has never been a great way to discover music. It's just that until relatively recently, there hasn't really been any better alternative.

      Optimal? No. There are a variety of tastes (especially after people are exposed to alternatives) and a few available radio streams can only cover so much ground.

      Since we're more or less talking about "pop" music and its sub-genres, the whole scene only began morphing post WWII, in the 1950's and picking up speed in the 1960's (no pun intended).

      Until internet streaming became more popular towards late 1990's (desktop) and late 2000's (mobile), there were local radio programmes and even entire stations across Europe exposing their listeners to new and unknown acts, the most prominent name probably being BBC's John Peel.

      Downside was that you wouldn't love or even like every track that was broadcast, but the upside was that you were exposed to it all. Think about school: you may not have enjoyed every subject, but in the end it all helped build a foundation and "broaden your mind" (talking about modern education here in particular).

      Sure, sharing tracks and playlists with like-minded buddies and following music services' "suggestions" may be or feel "optimal" but somehow this tends to make people more likely to dig themselves into certain niches with little or no exposure to all the other weird and wonderful stuff (unless seeking it out is their specific thing).

      There are still "DJ's" doing what John Peel was famous for, but since streaming became mainstream (esp. for youth) their reach and cultural impact has become insignificant. The mainstream music played on mainstream stations has meanwhile commercially optimized it's own scene to death.

      Interesting times.

    9. Re:Radio has never been optimal by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Found the millennial, or maybe you're a Gen Y that probably still fits too.

      Nope. I'm an old fart.

      Radio most definitely was a great way to discover music. Back when DJs decided what to play, fresh bands sent tapes in to radio stations to get exposure, and the industry wasn't dominated by men in suits.

      Oh yes, I remember. Pirate radio was great too (and still is). Radio used to be a lot better. It was even very good. I never meant to imply otherwise. But it was not optimal because, even with those DJs, radio only played a fairly narrow slice of the great music that can be heard. Those DJs stuck pretty much to a small number of genres, and there's only so many minutes in a broadcast day, so even within a genre, you could only be exposed to a small handful of truly new stuff.

    10. Re:Radio has never been optimal by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      My observation of the youth today is that they're actually less likely to stick within a narrow musical niche than my generation or the generations before. Sometimes the breadth of music I hear them listen to can be quite impressive.

      Those sorts of DJs, by the way, still exist. Maybe there's more now than ever, I don't know, but they're pretty common. The difference is that they're online rather than on the radio, but that's essentially the only difference.

  14. Works for me by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    frees up the spectrum for my cell phone. I don't care for their music and talk radio seem to be dominated by the likes of Rush Limbaugh & Co. Besides, they're all owned by one company. It's not like there's any real benefit outside of emergency services.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  15. Clearchannel owns all the stations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the US, Clearchannel owns all the radio stations.
    No competition. Just the same 5 bland songs, over and over...

  16. I thought Video Killed the Radio Star by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Isn't that the point MTV was trying to make 36 years ago?

    1. Re:I thought Video Killed the Radio Star by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope Asteroid Kills the Facebook Planet

    2. Re:I thought Video Killed the Radio Star by Whibla · · Score: 1

      And in response...

      I'd sit alone and watch your light
      My only friend through teenage nights
      And everything I had to know
      I heard it on my radio

      You gave them all those old time stars
      Through wars of worlds invaded by Mars
      You made 'em laugh, you made 'em cry
      You made us feel like we could fly.
      Radio.

      So don't become some background noise
      A backdrop for the girls and boys
      Who just don't know or just don't care
      And just complain when you're not there

      You had your time, you had the power
      You've yet to have your finest hour
      Radio, Radio.

      Definitely not my copyright! Radio Gaga, by Queen, off the album "The Works"

  17. Life rock/pop/loud music sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Live music is cool when you're actually there.

    That depends. Classical ...symphony...yeah - no obscene amplification. Pop/rock/really loud - obscene amplification shit - NO!

    I have to wear earplugs at rock/pop/country shows because they are too goddamn loud. When your ears ring, you have experienced permanent hearing damage. So, I either wear ear plugs and miss out on quite a bit of the music, or listen to the concert without ear plugs and go deaf.

    Fuck it. I've been to two live rock shows in my life and that was enough.

    All of the rock/pop stars have like 90% hearing loss. And when your profession is based on your sense of hearing, destroying it is idiot to say the least.

    And the reason it's so loud? Because folks go to rock/pop shows and scream all the way through the songs - unlike classical shows where folks keep quiet.

    1. Re: Life rock/pop/loud music sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love symphonies.

      That said, quit being a bitch. You're going to be dead one day anyway. Maybe try living a little at some point.

  18. Clearchannel destroyed radio by Snotnose · · Score: 4, Interesting

    some 15-20 years ago when they overpaid for all their stations, had to run too many commercials to pay for them, then heavily restricted their play lists to avoid the chance someone might not like the song currently playing. Forget about discovering new music on the radio, unless you switch from your country station to a hip-hop station or somesuch. Which ain't gonna happen.

    I've got a 30G USB stick in my car with a dozen or so playlists. Only time I turn the radio on is when I'm stuck in traffic for a report to figure out if I should stick it out or go another route.

    1. Re:Clearchannel destroyed radio by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

      I use google maps for that. It's not a problem when I'm driving 5mph. My kid has controls on her car's steering wheel for it so she can do it at speed.

      --
      Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    2. Re:Clearchannel destroyed radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My alarm clock has a built in radio alarm with the old style wheel to set the station that I accidentally turned on. It was still tuned to the channel I used to listen to 15 years ago, and the channel was still playing the exact same music that they played 15 years ago. It was scary, the exact same music, and they don't bill themselves as an oldies station. I get the heavily restricted playlists to ensure not playing a song somebody dislikes, but keeping that playlist mostly unmodified for 15 years? That just seems like you're asking to go out of business.

    3. Re:Clearchannel destroyed radio by PPH · · Score: 2

      In Seattle, there's KNKX, KEXP, KUOW, and KING. All public radio. All local. None owned by big mass media conglomerates.

      On the other hand, drive a few miles outside of Seattle and the airwaves are being taken over. Seattle stations are often swamped by Canadian stations (a few French language) out of B.C. And there's a Spanish language station somewhere around Mt Vernon that is audible from around 91.5 to 92.5 MHz. And interferes with most other stations on either side of that band. Poor filtering and too much power is my guess. And the FCC just sits on their hands and lets this stuff go. I'm guessing that they'd rather auction off the FM broadcast band to a cellular service provider. So let it go to shit.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Clearchannel destroyed radio by epine · · Score: 1

      Seattle stations are often swamped by Canadian stations (a few French language) out of B.C.

      Draw a giant circle around Langley.

      You'll want your audience to include North Vancouver, Chilliwack, the Gulf Islands, and Victoria.

      Welcome to Mount Vernon, loud and clear.

      http://cbctransmission.ca/en/m...

      Turns out the CBC actually operates antennas on the burnt-roast fringe in Sooke, Richmond, Abbotsford, and Chilliwack.

  19. Same stuff on every channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe if there wasn't a Clear Channel(TM) monopoly and new interesting music got played I would be inclined to listen to it more often.

    GSU used to boast the most powerful student run radio station (Album 88). in the US and would play all sorts of independent and unique stuff... got sold to NPR though to pay for a new "arts"/law building. I am sure the football time enjoyed the extra cash too

  20. Good riddance to bad rubbish. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Making tapes was one thing, but being able to make my own CDs? Then moving to MP3s? Man, local garbage deejays laughing at their own jokes can just get fucked. Once I could avoid radio I never went back.

  21. They don't know what they got till it's gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They paved paradise
    And put up a parking lot

  22. The day Radio died (For me) by Major_Disorder · · Score: 2

    I was driving to work about a 35 minutes trip. As usual I jumped in the car, and turned on the radio to my local classic rock station. I then proceeded to hear the sports report, news report, at least 10 commercials for products I do not want, or need, the DJ yammering on about his golf game, and going out in his boat.
    I then arrived at work, having not heard any actual music.
    I know what you are thinking. Change to another station.
    That might work in another market, but where I live most/all the stations are owned by the same company, so there is really very little difference between them.
    I went out after work and bought an iPod, and an iPod interface for my stereo. Loaded my music, set it to shuffle play, and have been shuffling along ever since. (Over 10 years)(Several cars/stereos/media players.)

    I do listen to a local news only station in the morning while I am getting ready for work, but that is about the only time I ever listen to the radio.

    --
    First law of people: People are generally stupid.
  23. people born after 1995 by don_combatant · · Score: 1

    "which is projected to account for 40% of all consumers in the U.S. by 2020" People born after 1995 would be 21 and under today. By 2020 they will be everyone 24 and under. There's no way that the 0-24 age group represents 40% of all consumers in the US. I stopped reading after the first sentence.

    1. Re:people born after 1995 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By consumers, they mean those easily influenced to go after the new shiny, and also those which are beginning to earn money of their own and is usually defined as those 16-24. Younger don't tend to have money, older tend to be set in their ways.

  24. Can I have your bandwidth when you die? by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 2

    Netkids don't "get" commericals. That's because they suck and contrary to popular believe, the kids on your lawn aren't as dumb as the media likes to act. Nothing can save their business model, but it's likely that if we moved the tech beyond HD radio and streaming titles, new opportunities would open up to a mixed-mode digital & analog radio that had more interactivity between listener and DJ, fan ratings, show movie previews, etc.. Even if you don't use the FM band to transmit, there is an awful lot of bandwidth there to receive. There are soo many possibilities there.

  25. Observation during my eclipse trip by Solandri · · Score: 1

    I took my family and friends to Yellowstone prior to the eclipse. One of the families in my car happened to have two young children (ages 3 and 5). As we approached Yellowstone and cellular data service dropped to near-nonexistent, the two had a meltdown. They were screaming "I want YouTube" over and over for a good half hour, and their parents couldn't get through to them that YouTube was inaccessible here. They had never been without Internet connectivity all their lives. Meanwhile, AM/FM radio worked just fine.

    I'm not sad to see music radio die. The entire thing has been a scam for nearly a century with ClearChannel owning most of the music stations across the country, and thus selecting which artists and songs become successful, instead of it happening organically via popularity among actual listeners. But the technology of radio broadcasts is far from dead.

  26. KPRI-San Diego... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Used to be the best or second best rock station until they went from music to religious programming. Way to ruin it dicktards.

    1. Re:KPRI-San Diego... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      When stations do this (or switch to news or sports programming), it is almost always because they either went out of business and their license was sold off, or they were about to go out of business.

      So they probably didn't ruin by the format change. It was probably already ruined, and that's what caused the format change.

  27. Traditional radio has a grim present by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Traditional radio sucks thanks to years of consolidation. Traditional radio doesn't face a grim future; it has a grim present. Death would be sweet release.

  28. Community Radio by Sindar+By+Choice · · Score: 0

    I've been a supporter of KRCL for a long time.
    It is a great "Community" radio station based in SLC, UT.
    They play an interesting variety of music and DJ's that cover most bases...

    Radio? as in tune in to the FM frequency?
    Sure...

    Or you can stream it from anywhere.
    So what really constitutes "Radio" as a platform?

    I would imagine that all the "regular", annoying as hell, Sinclair Media owned radio stations can also be streamed.

  29. During my commute it's all talk radio by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I never understand all these types of articles talking about music. Literally Jack/BOB FM are the only ones playing music during rush hour. Other than that it's all dumb ass talk radio with idiots. Their jokes are dumb, no cursing, and of course they're all basically the same. And nowadays they're syndicated from who knows where.

    1. Re:During my commute it's all talk radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked during rush hour around here, 25 stations use the exact same traffic/weather feed, 8 use a different one. Best of wall were the two stations played exactly the same content, songs, DJs and all, with only the announced call signs being different.

  30. Until you don't have access to the internet by spudnic · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just wait until they're stuck in a hurricane with no internet access. That little battery/wind-up radio would be a godsend.

    --
    load "linux",8,1
    1. Re:Until you don't have access to the internet by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Yea, Gen Z is going to be lost when some natural (or man made) disaster separates them from their technology. What do you mean "Read a Book?"

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Until you don't have access to the internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a modern society nobody ever gets caught in a hurricane.

    3. Re:Until you don't have access to the internet by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Sure they do. Some modern people get caught in their own car and can't get out.

  31. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  32. Has more to do with non-use of cars by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Gen Z pretty much thinks cars are for grandpas.

    No car, no car radio, no radio habit.

    Besides, all my best radio stations do free podcasts.

    Oh, and by the way, vinyl rocks!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  33. NPR by Kargan · · Score: 4, Informative

    I might not listen to music on the radio at all, but I listen to NPR on the radio on a daily basis. Younger me would never have done so, but I find a lot of their content interesting and/or informative.

    --
    Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
    1. Re:NPR by Strider- · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear.

      Some may bitch about it being a "progressive echo chamber" or whatever, but I've rarely heard something poorly researched, not not supported by appropriate evidence.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    2. Re:NPR by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear.

      Some may bitch about it being a "progressive echo chamber" or whatever, but I've rarely heard something poorly researched, not not supported by appropriate evidence.

      I heard such things on NPR on a regular basis. They do *attempt* to do their research, but they are very slanted to the left in both their approach to their stories (They take a very left of center view) and they clearly pick stories that naturally slant left. I've often felt that they did great research, but only on their presupposed perspective and ignored information that was contrary to their preferred storyline.

      But that's the media's everyday problem. Reporters are guilty of confirmation bias every day because few are willing or able to step back from a story and try to see it from other perspectives. Objectivity has simply gone out of style and NPR's objectivity has gone with it.

      Personally, I enjoy NPR from time to time, but they are pushing their bias, just like Rush Limbaugh is pushing his in another direction.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does anyone else find it weird that people who do not identify as progressive and want to restore the old ways are offended when you say "oh, so you are regressive"?

    4. Re:NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I enjoy NPR from time to time, but they are pushing their bias, just like Rush Limbaugh is pushing his in another direction.

      Look, NPR has a bias and a liberal lean (and I agree with you that I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't), but to compare them to Rush Limbaugh is disturbing. NPR does not run stories like The Democrats, Media and their Antifa Pit Bulls Are the Real Threat to America. There is a very important difference between not always adequately balancing your coverage of the sides of an issue and always pursuing emotive hit pieces designed to fire up your base by completely dismissing that the other side of the issue could have any valid points. That you don't see a difference is somewhat worrying.

    5. Re:NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They take a very left of center view

      In other words, they take a very reality-based view.

      The American idea of "center-right" is knows as wacko everywhere else.

    6. Re:NPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but they are very slanted to the left

      Only in the US would you hear something like that. Extremists like you really need to get better educated.

      Or you're being paid to say this in which case you're just a parasitic lowlife. Ever thought of getting a real job and being part of a community?

  34. Talk Radio by Zorro · · Score: 1

    Is going nowhere.

    KFI and WLS will be bigger than ever.

  35. There's radio and commercial radio by HangingChad · · Score: 2

    It's not radio that faces a grim future, it's the old fashioned model of commercial radio. You get, maybe, ten minutes of music followed by tons of commercials that repeat the phone number 20 times. But the spectrum will still be useful for new types of over-the-air services. Old radio needs to die. It's nothing but commercials and right-wing hate spew.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  36. NPR Is the one thing I listen to on FM radio by enjar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll echo the sentiment about Clearchannel killing the diversity that used to be available on FM radio. I moved to my current location 20 years ago. At that time there were locally owned stations that played many rock genres (hard/metal, alternative, contemporary, classic), some rap/R&B, top 40, country, talk, sports and two NPR stations - one that did news, the other was the classical/jazz station. Today, the NPR station still exists, and one of the independents, but quite literally everything else is programmed by Clearchannel. It's not only the radio programming that sucks now, but the stations used to be a big part of the live music scene, sponsoring festivals and promoting local bands, and otherwise contributing to the scene in some way. The DJs were local and knew the scene, did appearances at bars and many of were music geeks who really liked the genre they were in.

    Fast forward to now, we have one NPR station that does news, the classical/jazz station is gone. The rock stations have been consolidated and homogenized, or converted to play "modern country", aka "country pop". The pop station has less diversity. There are now two sports talk stations that seem to be staffed by the world's most hateful idiot trolls that exist solely to fill the airwaves with useless drek. Local DJs only exist on some streaming stations, no longer on the air. I got a car with satellite radio and got hooked on that -- I like that the stations can be very genre specific and that there's a wide variety of styles to choose from. The DJs know their music and seem to like it. I also have a Spotify subscription and pile of podcasts to choose from. When I can choose between music that I like or talk I want to listen to, FM doesn't stand a chance, but on the other hand the vast number of streaming stations and services like Spotify make music discovery so much better now than when I was growing up -- even the best college stations from 20 years just don't hold a candle to what I have available to me now.

    1. Re:NPR Is the one thing I listen to on FM radio by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Problem here is that if the NPR formats you like where profitable, *somebody* would be duplicating it. As it sits, only NPR can do this kind of thing because they are not as profit driven.

      Radio simply is NOT profitable. Advertising dollars are better spent on other media. Radio really only has one place left to cut costs and that's in it's on air talent and other "people" doing the business. So what do they do? Put the same programming on air in multiple markets using their most popular talent, consolidate and reduce labor costs, so they can reduce their advertisement rates to keep the business afloat. Radio stations are playing a losing hand and they know it.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:NPR Is the one thing I listen to on FM radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Problem here is that if the NPR formats you like where profitable, *somebody* would be duplicating it. As it sits, only NPR can do this kind of thing because they are not as profit driven.

      This is one of those examples of something being in the public good, and which can only exist because the government decides the public good is worth the cost.

      Not everything needs a business model to be of value, no matter what the idiots who still think Ayn Rand makes sense will tell you.

      You can't have a for-profit sewage system with competition, or competing water sources, or competing electricity grids, or competing roads -- it simply doesn't work. There are just things which need to be a natural government monopoly, because it provides benefit to everybody, isn't something which can have competition and still work, and which has to be treated as common infrastructure. It's simply not possible to duplicate some things which are shared by everybody, because it isn't possible to do so.

      Public Radio is one of those things which adds a lot of value to the public, and which the private sector is utterly incapable of operating.

      The problem arises when people with their own idiotic set of "alternative facts" think their ignorance should be given equal weight as reality. Or when people believe if it isn't ran by a private corporation for profit it's evil.

      Unfortunately, both of those categories of people are irrational and can't really be appeased.

    3. Re:NPR Is the one thing I listen to on FM radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is one of those examples of something being in the public good, and which can only exist because the government decides the public good is worth the cost.

      It isn't for "public good". It's for the good of the Democratic Party.

  37. NAB's response by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Have you read NAB's response to this?

    http://variety.com/2017/music/...

    It is so delusional that I almost feel sad for them.

  38. If it's too loud... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...you're too old. Take a nap, gramps.

  39. A grim future? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That makes it 40K!

    My classic pre-WW2 radio is golden again!

  40. He's missing the forest for the trees by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

    67 million millennials listen to radio each week, That's about 90% market penetration. Just because millennials will use other outlets to discover new music doesn't mean that existing outlets aren't used for consuming music. The Internet has become the new "local club/bar" where you'd go each week to hear new bands and genres; but consumption still is in radio.

    SONOS, the largest consumer speaker company on the face of the Earth, sees a massive use of streaming FM stations over Internet - meaning if anything, FM radio's reach is increasing into the modern world. It's staying with broadcast but also streaming onto the Internet, so that a given station is no longer limited to a small geographic region but worldwide.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:He's missing the forest for the trees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Generation Z != Millenials

    2. Re:He's missing the forest for the trees by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      This.

      And even among millenials (of which two of my children are), I am seriously doubtful about that 90% figure.

      I don't think I have ever heard my kids or their friends listen to the radio, ever. They do listen to a lot of music, but it is 100% online -- mostly either Spotify or YouTube.

      Of course, the kids I know are not a representative sample, but if the figure is really 90%, I'd think that I'd have seen at least one of them doing it at least a couple of times.

    3. Re:He's missing the forest for the trees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So even your speakers are spying on you now? I'm not sure there's any way left for us laymen to diagnose paranoid schizophrenics. All their delusions have come true!

    4. Re:He's missing the forest for the trees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no. The extant products only have the surveillance interfaces, but not the transmitters, so we still have to send technicians out in unmarked utility vans to gather data.

      The 90% figure is real. When surveiling our customers, FM transmissions have been detected within the vicinity 90% of the time. Since there would be no transmission without reception, we infer penetration within the region by reason of the presence of the signal.

  41. HD Radio by BrookHarty · · Score: 2

    Almost every FM station near me has HD radio with 2 side stations, so you get up to 3 stations of content per station.
    There is AM HD put doesn't appear to have been implemented, I couldn't find any hardware or AM HD radio stations.

    But, some car manufacturers are still playing the "HD radio is extra" upgrade for their premium levels.

    And then HD radio consortium killed off portable HD radios because they don't want people to pirate the clear signal.
    I would Love an AM/FM (with HD) on my cell, but If you can't buy it, that's effectively killing it off.

    It's easier for me to stream radio onto my cell phone, just so I can hear talk radio in the my car.
    Corporations are ruining radio, mostly due to clear channel stranglehold.

    But then, not everyone has high speed internet or mobile data across the US too.

    The whole situation pisses me off.

    1. Re:HD Radio by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      Yes, I wanted to replace a classic analog FM tuner with an HD tuner. I discovered that there weren't any. What ? You launch a new transmitter with no receiver ? WTF kind of business model is that ? Sony made one...it is now up to $400 if you can get a working one on Ebay. No one else makes one. They need to read about RCA and Dumont, who realized that folks needed receivers so they could sell transmitters....

    2. Re:HD Radio by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      I would Love an AM/FM (with HD) on my cell...

      Yes! I'd like to tune it to NPR and have it automatically switch to the nearest local NPR station as I drive cross country. And when I'm out of radio range but still within cell range, I want it to stream NPR with my data plan. This would be a good substitute for satellite radio.

      Also, it should automatically send me hyperlinks of stories and other things they talk about. Don't open them, just put the links in a list that I can look at later (or not).

      Also it should let me pause, rewind, and fast-forward live radio like a DVR. If I lose all signal, I want it to pause playback, download what I missed when it can and then start playing it back as soon as possible.

      So there are still a number of ways terrestrial radio can improve and become relevant again.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    3. Re:HD Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't blame the manufacturers. Blame the organization that is using patents to control the technology.

    4. Re:HD Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Sangean HDT-20 ($200) or Day Sequerra M4.2SI ($1k) are both available and work well for receiving HD Radio signals for home use. No, they aren't "cheap," but aren't much worse than an older high-quality AM/FM home tuner.

    5. Re:HD Radio by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I think HD radio killed itself. I just went through a phase:

      1. What is HD radio? Turns out it's not Satellite radio or DAB, shit I didn't even know this existed. - Marketing Failure.
      2. How can I receive HD radio? So I went to HD Radio's website and clicked on a list of brands of receivers. Okay so I didn't recognise any of the brands that popped up in all, so I filtered. Sony : Nothing. Kenwood : Nothing. JVC : Nothing. Pioneer : Nothing. - Okay so I can't listen to it from equipment by normal manufacturers.
      3. Where can I listen to it? Oh USA only, and even then coverage is like 70%.

      Why did this proprietary company come along and compete with DAB+ and other internationally used standards? I can pick up >100 DAB+ stations in both my standard Kenwood car radio and my Sony receiver in the living room. And if I wanted something portable, well there's plenty to chose from too.

      The USA is truly bizarre in its effort to be different.

  42. How Timely... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My local Alt Rock station (95.5 WBRU), the only one left in the area, is going off air tonight at midnight.

  43. Talk radio, streaming by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    I listen to the local talk station, 6-9am...then the rest of the day, we have a low power 24/7 no commercial blues/jazz station. If I can't pick it up on the FM dial, I just stream it. When I'm out of town, I stream everything from pandora, spotify or MP3's. Commercial FM plays the same songs over and over and over with little to no variety, not to mention the LOUD commercials.

  44. Radio just won't die by wired_parrot · · Score: 1

    The death of radio has been predicted every decade over the last century. It was supposed to have died when the first talking pictures appeared in the 1920s, then it was the rise of television in the 1950s.. MTV and cable tv was supposed to have killed radio in the 1980s. Than it was the CDs and music sharing sites like napster in the 1990s that was to be radio's demise.

    None of these new technologies have managed to disrupt radio, which has proven incredibly resilient to change. I wouldn't bet against the death of radio, given its resilience over the last century. If anything, I think radio as a medium has more to teach other mediums of communication how to survive technological disruption than the other way around.

    1. Re:Radio just won't die by Rakhar · · Score: 1

      Radio stations shift their playlist to accommodate a demographic. Many respond to large amounts of feedback and adjust accordingly. It's a lot easier to change a playlist on a radio station than to shift the programming on a television station. With television there isn't as much new material to work with, and licensing on anything new is problematic at best since each station wants to keep its best shows to itself. Radio stations don't make new music, and they don't have go directly through competing radio stations to license music.

      It's apples and oranges.

  45. College Radio by highlife · · Score: 2, Informative

    College radio is still a great way to discover music. Scan the lower end of the FM dial and there's a good chance you'll find a music lover queuing up obscure tracks from eras gone by. If you don't live within range, check out the College/University section of iTunes' built-in Internet Radio menu. KALX (Berkeley), KXLU (Los Angeles), KRPF (Moscow, ID), KEXP (Seattle) are good places to start. Plus, NO COMMERCIALS.

  46. IS it just me or..... by WolfgangVL · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Over the last couple of years, it seems like we've ditched a growing handful of perfectly reliable technologies in favor of a host of closed systems that rely completely on an internet connection. I see a massive vulnerability bubbling to the surface here.

    We have people who simply cannot function without some kind of internet access. Without it, most of our industry leading experts become empty headed morons, unwilling or unable to perform whatever they are supposed to be the experts at. Most of our tools and toys are the same way, no network=no workie.

    When the power goes out, these people and technologies just shut-down and stare at the ISP hardware until the power comes back on. Most don't even seem to own/include an AM/FM receiver.

    This makes me sad, and a little worried. I completely understand how inferior OTA radio is when compared to things like streaming services and fancy internet connected gimmicks and such, but at the end of the day, radio will still be there when the rest of this shit is "searching for network"

    When the rest of your options die because they all rely on a single point of failure (network connectivity) talking shows, commercials, and the same 20 artists over and over again will still be there, free of charge.... unless we let it die.

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
    1. Re:IS it just me or..... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't listen to the radio or stream. Instead, I have a very large existing music collection and I have agent software that crawls the internet to find new goodies for me.

      If the internet apocalypse comes, I'll still have plenty of tunes.

      That agent software is an interesting thing. A number of years ago, I had basically stopped buying music because the radio was a musical wasteland and worthless to me in terms of discovering new music, and used record stores pretty much stopped being a thing.

      But the agent changed all that. I buy more music now than at any time in my life because of that.

      I wish I knew where I picked it up -- I got it somewhere about a decade ago, but have long forgotten where.

  47. "traditional"? by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

    It's been just less than 100 years since the very first commercial broadcast radio station was licensed - and that one was for news.

    There are people alive today who didn't experience broadcast radio in the early years of their lives. It was initially only for those with money.

    How can anything that didn't even exist in the early lives of some alive today be even close to being "traditional"? Virtually nothing in the realm of tech is "traditional" yet. It will all change and most of it will change within the lives of even middle-aged folks alive today. The tech revolution, especially electronics tech, is still in its childhood if not infancy. It is growing and changing like a preteen in puberty and is just as unpredictable.

    1. Re:"traditional"? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I dunno. If something has been in your life for as far back as you can remember, I think it counts as "traditional". Perhaps not in the (ahem) traditional sense, but certainly in the experiential sense.

  48. Radio going the way of TV by HockeyPuck · · Score: 3

    In the beginning we had free, over the air, TV... then cable came along... and now we pay Netflix/Amazon/Disney for their programming...

    Radio used to be free, over the air... then XM came along and soon we'll be paying youtube/Pandora/Spotify/Some-music-label to listen to their catalog.

    Most people used to drink tap water too, now we pay $2/bottle because it has a picture of a mountain on it or it says it comes from a Tiny island 3000 miles away (Fiji).

  49. Maybe Radio is for something very else? by Sique · · Score: 1
    I don't see any of the problems the study is investigating. I never used Radio to discover music. I don't have any playlists, I don't subscribe to any streaming service. I listen to radio for the news, and the radio stations I listen to are mainly having political and travel magazines, interviews, science and history features.

    I don't know if such stations exists in the U.S. (besides NPR). At least I didn't find any of them when I was in the U.S. the last time.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  50. I Don't Get It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FM radio is free music of the most commonly popular types of music at very high audio quality. Sure there are commercials, some more than others, but free music. No hassle sourcing downloading, creating playlists...

    But, you're telling me that people would rather pay Spotify, XM... Why? Where does all the money for '$5/month for every little thing' come from?

    On rare occasions, I'll listen to a podcast in the car. But 98% of the time, if I'm in the car, the radio is on.

    1. Re:I Don't Get It by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      FM radio is free music of the most commonly popular types of music at very high audio quality. Sure there are commercials, some more than others, but free music.

      It's easy to understand -- the selection of music on the radio is incredibly limited. For the most part, if you listen to it for a half hour, you've heard their entire playlist.

      Not everything that is free is worth the price.

  51. did ANYONE question the stats? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Generation Z, which is projected to account for 40% of all consumers in the U.S. by 2020"

    So in 3 years, a generation that's about 10% of the population will somehow be 40%? Are they expecting a mass genocide of Millennials, GenXers and boomers?

    Talk about a ridiculous statistic!

  52. "as a music-discovery tool" by Rakhar · · Score: 1

    The only station near me that doesn't play the same songs over and over is run out of a college. Even they have large time-chunks dedicated to the same music every day. I used to live on the coast and moved to the midwest. It took three years for a song the played every few hours on the coast stations to make it to the midwest stations. So no, overall the market for AM/FM is not, nor should it be "music-discovery".

    Other music services can be tailored per-person. They don't rely entirely on pandering to large groups. That inherently gives them a huge advantage to market to anyone that cares about more than the top 40 in a single genre.

    Listening to the radio to hear new music is like going to a chain pizza place when you want tacos. Yes, very rarely you may find a place that sells both...but more often that not you'll just get pizza, and even when you do find tacos there's a decent chance that they aren't that good anyway.

    1. Re:"as a music-discovery tool" by hguorbray · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For the adventurous I think a good deal of the West Coast has really good non-commercial radio choices.
      -Particularly the SF Bay Area:
      College: KFJC, KZSU, KSJS, KSCU, KALX for starters -with dozens of genres of music I rarely hear anything I have heard before and have found hundreds of new bands I like over the past 25 years as well as the occasional Eno song or lost or new psychedelic classic
      Hippie Radio: KKUP, KPFA -sadly KFAT/KPIG is only online these days.
      Classical/other: KDFC, KSCM (Jazz -ostensibly part of College of San Mateo, but not really)

      In Northern California and Southern Oregon there is JPR (Jefferson Public Radio) as well as College and some Joe radio stations and I have even heard good radio in the Sacramento area.

      Eugene, Portland and Seattle also have local stations and promote local and indie bands -particularly KEXP.

      and I have even heard a fair amount of diversity in LA music stations -even on KROQ as well as local NPR affiliates

      I'm sure that there are also clusters of independent or non profit radio stations on the east coast.

      But if you're in the midwest and not in the Denver/Boulder area or Lawrence Kansas, you may be out of luck...

      As long as free non-commercial radio continues to thrive where I live I have no interest in a cable-like Satellite radio subscription, which is going to tend to try to silo me into a particular genre when what I want is to hear different things all the time from 40s radio serials to afrobeat to 'The Norman Bates Memorial Soundtrack Show' (KFJC) to Philosophy Talk (KZSU) to whatever emo or techno or trance some millennial in some tiny broadcast booth wants to throw down.

      -I'm just sayin'

  53. Radio in car by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    Ah yes, all kinds of stuff comes to my mind.

    I haven’t listened to traditional radio for some time, usually listen to the 2-ways from CHP, media helos and ENG vans, and the hamsters. In another forum they talked about fewer media aircraft, I remember KCBS SF bay area had a number of aircraft flying around the bay area, I could either tune to their AM station or simply listen to their 450 MHz 2-ways (get more gossip). KCBS did away with all their aircraft, and many other media stations have reduced their staff.

    I see a number of comments how ClearChannel monopolized the market, I can easily perceive how their programming is a complete disconnect from the young people. For older people they lose that sense of “connection” with the community of interests. I remember back in the days of a independent country radio station KFAT where the people find all kinds of obscure country songs including vinyl records from way way back at garage sales and flea markets. They also had bumper stickers, “I found it! and it’s hard to find too.” as they didn’t have a lot of RF power. I see many references about NPR, maybe I will tune in (all these 23103s dispatches on CHP I never see). And I usually at work by the time N6NFI TalkNet gets started at 9 am.

    So the traditional AM/FM radio will go away? May not make much difference as all cars have the screens for multiple systems so I don’t expect people to find a blank panel or a hole to fill with something else. What gets me is ***every vehicle*** has this big thing between driver and passenger seat. No room to conveniently put a 2-way radio except for some creativity with remote headsets. The last thing I need is another cup holder.

    Some years ago an amateur radio operator purchasing a new car requested no AM/FM radio installed. His intention is to have a spot to insert his ham radio gear, people at dealership were baffled. They just didn’t understand how someone can have a car but no AM/FM radio installed. As if they felt the radio is like tires, car cannot run without it.

    the Doonsberry cartoon, “radio in car?”
    Urban dweller: “no, someone stole it already. Have you thought of getting a life?”
    Suburban dweller: “yes, big sucker too. 300 watt Blaupunkt!”
    Country dweller: “maybe I do, maybe I don’t. It ain’t none of your business.”

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
    1. Re:Radio in car by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      Yup, as a fellow ham, I've learned more from Shadow Traffic, the internal ENG media frequencies, and PD Car-to-Car than the occasional traffic reports on the radio....a good dual band and some programming work and you are good !

  54. Generation Z has yet to pay for a data plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not every cellphone company offers unlimited streaming of music services. Everyone isn't going to sign up for T-Mobile. As an old person, I do hope that generation Z forces Verzion to offer said unlimited streaming at no extra cost. I wouldn't mind listening to radio stations from other countries with Audials Radio app.

    1. Re:Generation Z has yet to pay for a data plan by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      The younger folks I know who so a lot of streaming avoid using their cell data plan to do it. They use WiFi. If they don't have an available WiFi access point available, they'll still do some streaming but are more frugal about it (such as, they won't just let it play as background noise).

      I live in a urban area, though, so there's almost always a WiFi access point available. In a sparser area, the behavior is probably different.

  55. Y'all are listening to the wrong stations. by ejr · · Score: 1

    Community and college radio continues to introduce people to new music, old music they do not know, and all sorts of cool stuff. Listen to KALX, WWOZ, KFJC, and others. Online, mostly, given how few are left physically available. But as younger people grow older, they'll find less time to futz with their playlists and appreciate the DJs who guide them well.

    1. Re:Y'all are listening to the wrong stations. by Baleet · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I am fortunate enough to live in a place with four different nonprofit radio stations that broadcast an interesting blend of music (including genres I had never heard before). I seldom listen to the "morning zoo" type of crap, but am loath to pay for satellite. I would much prefer to support local programming, but so much of it is lowest-common-denominator junk, to me. Having said that, I often seek out artists or particular songs or pieces I have heard on broadcast and add it to an internet playlist of some kind. Sometimes more choices is better, but there is a lot to be said for the serendipity of being forced to listen to something you might not have chosen.

  56. Well..... by MerlTurkin · · Score: 1

    With all the God(tm) damn commercials I'm surprised it hasn't nearly died out already. Especially AM radio. holy shit it's nearly 50% commercials.

  57. Radio advantages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Radio certainly still has its place.

    - College Radio is a great way to find out new music. Depending on the college radio program, most of the shows showcase music that's far more creative than your typical radio station
    - Multicultural radio. Connects the local ethnic communities and you find out about various things happening to the community
    - News radio: If you're stuck in traffic, you'd catch up on the daily news in the car. You'd also get live traffic report on accidents on the road. No need to use your cell phone or launch any app while driving.
    - Sports Radio - catch up on the game broadcasts for those who prefer things live but can't get home early enough because you'd need to work late that day.

  58. Yes by speedlaw · · Score: 1

    I grew up with the AOR top-down radio system (the 80's). I went to school in a college town. The station owners broke a song there...if it took off, it went to NYC. I was stuck with the same playlist for months at a time....it sucked. Once it was played out in Boston, it was "a NEW SONG" in the NYC market....you never heard anything truly new in NYC. We once tried to get a band to play our school. We were told by the band manager that even though we could afford them, and they wanted to play our school, the stadium owner and the radio station would then blackball them in the market for playing our school, as school concerts didn't make money for the machine. My 20 year old just got a car. Her concerns were a) does it have Aux In, and b) is it a manual ? So much for millennialls all hating cars... AD2P is now in just about every car sold in the US, so.... My kids don't radio at all. Period. Spotify and other things downloaded to the phone, yes. I'm pretty sure my tech savvy 17 year old doesn't know how to use the car's radio part. I still listen to NPR cause I'm an old guy and liberal, but beyond that and one classical station, I use occasional satellite radio (and their playlists have been taken over by the same leisure suit c-suckers that killed FM radio) and Spotify...the family plan gets me my old stuff AND a stream of new stuff...and zero commercials. Hey Kids ! ... do you know why some 80's music is called "New Music"...it is because in this era of AOR music embargo, a few small stations, not in the usual lineup, dared to play "New Music". Some of us even put up antennas to get that tiny station, usually not a full power major market transmitter (WLIR). This truly was a parallel universe, and the AOR sh!the@ds fought it off as long as they could, kinda like Cable is fighting streaming now. Yes, it was that bad....and no, I have no sympathy for radio at this point. We won't even get into how horribly compressed and augmented FM radio was back in the day, when it CAN sound about as good as a CD...but never did due to station greed. I once bought an FM tuner...and could never listen to a few stations ever again, once I heard how bad the full quieting signal truly was. Radio is still shooting its own feet. Digital is a great idea, but the sidebands detract from the main signal. The solution is to go fully digital, but that won't happen. A digital signal only works near the transmitters, and many dual mode radios "skip" when going from the digital source back to the analog source. Corporate greed then says "hey, we need 40 streams on this signal" so, like a teen who wanted every single song on one CD, they all sound like crap..... When, the basic FM analog signal can be almost full CD quality.... Nope, when it dies, it will be suicide, and we won't mourn.

  59. Life with Luigi, The Green Hornet, The Lone Ranger by Jerry · · Score: 1

    were some of the radio programs that were broadcast when I was a kid. I loved the Green Hornet and The Shadow Knows. That was in the last 40's and early 50's. Then came BW TV and all the movies and cliff hangers that were shown on the silver screen in the 1930's started appearing on the Tube. I loved Buck Rogers and his battles against Ming the Merciless as he flew through space with his spaceship making weird sounds while sparks fell from his exhaust as smoke was rising from it. In the late 50's through the 60's it was all Top 40 and Wolfman Jack, from of XERF-AM at Ciudad Acuña in Mexico.

    I'm 76. Sometime about 20-25 years ago I stopped listening to radio. About 15-20 years ago I stopped listening to TV. It's all digital now.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  60. Good! by thomst · · Score: 1

    Music radio (as opposed to talk/news radio) gave up on innovating altogether back in the 20th century. I blame ClearChannel (now known as iHeartMedia) and its ilk for that.

    Back in the day - which is to say "the 1960's and 70's" - radio programming was mostly done by people who actually cared about music. Program Directors, as they were called, actively searched for new and interesting artists to whom they could expose their audiences. Formats became increasingly fluid, mixing genres and styles, and playlists often included thousands of songs. And albums - because progressive radio stations would sometimes play entire album sides. The three-minute rule was largely abandoned, as artists tackled longer-form compositions. It really was a golden age for music.

    Then the MBAs took over, and radio went straight into the toilet.

    Instead of trying to broaden their appeal, radio stations narrowed the audiences they catered to. No more mixing rock and country and jazz on a single playlist. You wanted rock, you had to listen to a rock station. You wanted country, you had to switch to a country station. And, if you wanted jazz - well jazz didn't attract sponsors, so, outside of urban markets, you were pretty much s.o.l. You could find R&B, though, in the form of soul stations, until disco took over and soul pretty much vanished overnight. Radio became, in a word, "balkanized": hopelessly divided into ever-smaller audience segments, each being fed a fast-dwindling playlist of hits.

    Which takes us to "market research", the new payola, where record labels pay for the privilege of having tracks they select "tested" for audiences - by being played at the top of the hour, every hour, for however long the label chooses to keep paying for "research".

    Is it any wonder that audiences - especially milennial audiences - have chosen to abandon in droves this profoundly corrupt, accounting-driven music distribution model in favor of personally-customizable streaming services, where they get to pick their own playlists, instead of having MBAs drive bought-and-paid-for playlists down their throats?

    Oh, and did I mention the endless commercials ... ?

    --
    Check out my novel.
  61. "Pending Radio Legislation" by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    Way way way back even before Jerry (6400), there was this article from the magazine Radio Age, July 1924, which I always find an interesting read:

    CONGRESS has adjourned without acting either way on pending radio legislation, according to the news dispatches from Washington.

    Unless a special session is called, which does not seem likely at this time, radio will be untouched by legal attachments until next year, at least.

    The two most important measures which were shelved by the adjournment of the well-meaning but unusually deliberative governmental bodies are the White Bill and the Dill Bill. The first proposes to establish governmental control over radio broadcasting, reception and perhaps the industry eventually. This bill, while not viciously attacked, did not go through because some representatives of the people wanted to know just why such a young and untried industry as radio should suffer the bonds of law so soon. Accordingly, it is unlikely that the White Bill will ever become a law -- so the fans may rest assured they will not be hindered for some time to come in that respect.

    The Dill Bill is more far reaching in its scope. It is liberal and fair-minded. It asks that the copyright laws be amended so that copyrighted music can be broadcast without the payment of levies to the music publishers. Although this bill has been opposed at every step by huge organizations and moneyed interests, as well as several prominent music publishers, it was about to be passed with a fair majority when Congress adjourned.

    There is still hope for the Dill Bill, then, and we hope that when it finally reaches the President's desk it will represent the result of a fair compromise between the broadcasters and the music publishers, in the interests of the fan who listens to broadcast music and helps the sale of the published article by buying the pieces he likes best.

    Government legislation, we believe, appears to be the only means yet suggested which offers any kind of a solution to the bitter enmity between the broadcasters and the so-called music "trust."

    Radio's recent jump to prominence in official circles such as Congress is only one indication of its growing importance. Big capital interests, legislators and public spirited citizens are realizing more and more that radio will some day control the destinies of our nation; and accordingly they are setting out to prevent its too sudden growth to an unwieldy influence. Quick government control, the legislators aver, will prevent radio from becoming a menace instead of the help and pleasure it should be.

    In a measure these radio-legislators are right. Something must be done to prevent the air from becoming a bedlam of tangled wave lengths. Something must be done to prevent the ether from being clogged with propaganda and useless stuff that will discourage interest in the world's latest miracle.

    If legislation works along those lines, it will be beneficial. But if it takes a political trend, this country will see a united uprising of righteously aroused fans -- lovers and promoters of the good in radio.

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  62. Re:Life with Luigi, The Green Hornet, The Lone Ran by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    Interesting comment, I looked up that station, found this http://www.modestoradiomuseum....

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  63. I think we need a creimer-FM station by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we'd get all kinds of stars to read creimer ebooks all day long

  64. To the 80% of people who from check to check by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A LOT of disgusted people are dropping cable and getting TV via airwaves. The same thing for radio. Not everyone has money for a smart phone either. They enjoy radio. Neither one of them are going anywhere soon.

  65. that is to be expected by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    AM radio is either sports or politics or religious bullshit when it is not lame advertising

    shortwave radio is either foreign broadcasts in spanish, french or arabic and what is in english is either the tinfoil asshat alex jones peddling his snakeoil products or religious nuts panhandling money, shortwave is basically a circus of carpetbaggers either conspiracy nuts, religious nuts or a mixture of both religious & conspiracy lunacy,

    FM radio is more of the same, music of various types with annoying commercials, or religious nuts

    people are tired of being pandered to with bullshit,

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  66. Radio is fine, its the way its done that sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think radio is fine, my issue is many stations try and re invent themselves too often. Changing formats, personnel and selling way to much in ads that turn people off. My advice is shrink your staff lower costs and reduce advertising. Maybe even consider a no DJ format because let's be honest who cares anymore a DJ talking as well as advertisements.

    1. Re:Radio is fine, its the way its done that sucks by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Not hard. Anytime they do the rap crap, they lose market share fast. Ditch the jungle music and put real music on and it comes back. It's about time for the big bands to come back again. Some real music.

  67. Another issue by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    I listened to a lot of Sports talk radio like ESPN. As time has gone on, the level of advertisement is now just about 50 percent. Coupled with boring hosts who all talk abtout the same thing, with the exception of goofball Dan LeBetard, there is about ten minutes of content per day.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Another issue by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I suspect your basic problem is listening to advertising-funded radio. Don't you have alternatives, such as subscription-funded radio?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    2. Re:Another issue by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I suspect your basic problem is listening to advertising-funded radio. Don't you have alternatives, such as subscription-funded radio?

      Of course. I was just pointing out that a 50:50 advertising to product radio is part of why OTA radio is dying.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  68. Rural and Mountain Areas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Options may suck, but still the only thing that reaches many rural and mountain areas other than satellite. Talk of re-purposing AM/FM spectrum in US is horseshit.

  69. Wut? by bytesex · · Score: 1

    This is coming out of the country of "we're so big, we have to drive everything", and of "we're so big, we have cell phone coverage nearly nowhere"?

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  70. Crying snowflakes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only liberals are concerned, not conservatives. Libs lost the war over talk radio. The garbage that passes for music us a joke.

  71. Solution: The Greaseman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look him up. You will love it