Apple: iPhones Are Too 'Complex' To Allow Unauthorized Repair (vice.com)

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Apple: iPhones Are Too 'Complex' To Allow Unauthorized Repair (vice.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Friday September 22, 2017 @10:00PM from the hands-off-approach dept.

Jason Koebler writes: Apple's top environmental officer made the company's most extensive statements about the repairability of Apple hardware on Tuesday: "Our first thought is, 'You don't need to repair this.' When you do, we want the repair to be fairly priced and accessible to you," Lisa Jackson, Apple's vice president of policy and social initiatives said at TechCrunch Disrupt in San Francisco. "To think about these very complex products and say the answer to all our problems is that you should have anybody to repair and have access to the parts is not looking at the whole problem."

Apple has lobbied against "Fair Repair" bills in 11 states that would require the company to make its repair guides available and to sell replacement parts to the general public. Instead, it has focused on an "authorized service provider" model that allows the company to control the price and availability of repair.

166 of 305 comments (clear)

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Whaaaaaat? by slashmydots · 2017-09-22 22:15 · Score: 5, Informative

Apple is lying and exaggerating about something to make more money? WHAAAAAAAT? This is my surprised face. The only thing that will stop them is laws, the end. We need right to repair laws and that's that.
1. Re:Whaaaaaat? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 00:47 · Score: 1
  
  The way we're going, within the next 5 years everything tech will be locked down. No more tinkering for the average person. A Permanent Surveillance State is where we are headed, this is what the powers that be want, citizen. Prepare for that large boot coming down fast from above you.
2. Re:Whaaaaaat? by olsmeister · 2017-09-23 01:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You are completely mangling the way most free marketers would think about this. The better way is to let anyone hang a shingle as an iPhone repair specialist. Maybe they'll be able to fix them, or maybe they'll be too complex and unrepairable. If the former, the shop will be successful and prosper. If the latter, and they permanently screw up enough phones, people will go elsewhere to an authorized repair center and the shop will close.
3. Re:Whaaaaaat? by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 01:14 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Apple is lying and exaggerating about something to make more money? WHAAAAAAAT? This is my surprised face. The only thing that will stop them is laws, the end. We need right to repair laws and that's that.
  So when Apple is forced to write a repair manual, and sell you the replacement parts, will they also be required to sell you the machinery to repair the phones?
  Or do we change all components over to through hole from SMT? While Apple detractors find this amusing, it isn't like it won't affect Samsung or other manufacturers.
  First thing we have to do is define repairable. Then we have to define the level of acumen needed on the part of the user. I've got the equipment to work on SMT boards, you need a microscope, various methods of soldering, depending on what you are doing. But at a bare minimum, you need a tiny tip soldering iron, and your hands better be steady. So I can do rework.
  So is the repair person defined as my ability, or by the hypothetical Grandma? Is the repair definition at the component level, which will mean the phone will almost certainly need a total redesign and will end up much larger.
  I've done actual physical work on smartphones. Perhaps 1 percent of us will have the ability to work on those tiny components.
  Will the cost of the (hundreds?) of different repair manuals and the required stockpiling of all of the components - and define how many years they must be available - 10 years perhaps? Will these be provided free of cost to the consumer? They have to buy them before hand.
  And don't forget, this will apply to all devices, not just ones produced by the manufacturers you don't like. It's very easy to get some folks to support "something something because Apple". Be careful what you ask for - you just might get it, even if you never owned an Apple device.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
4. Re:Whaaaaaat? by srichard25 · 2017-09-23 01:23 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  "The only thing that will stop them is laws, "
  What???? How about people just stop buying products from companies that adopt anti-consumer policies? Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smart phones.
  We don't need a law for everything.
5. Re: Whaaaaaat? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 01:54 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  You being someone facetious. Most of the major repairs that need to be done to an iPhone aren't surface mount devices, it's replacing screens, or replacing daughter boards containing ports or buttons.
  There is an entire industry of stores whose only purpose is to fix cell phones. That's reality. And reality trumps rhetoric.
6. Re: Whaaaaaat? by Miamicanes · 2017-09-23 04:16 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  A lithium battery has a finite lifespan. It's guaranteed to eventually need replacement, and unless Apple is literally molding the lithium gel around the circuit board in a way that makes its replacement physically impossible, they should be required to sell replacement batteries at a fair price (or if they don't want to, then they shouldn't be allowed to prevent anyone ELSE from making compatible replacements).
  A mechanical button or poorly-attached microUSB likewise has a finite life... a life that might very well be less than the reasonably-expected life of the phone.
  Screens break and crack. It's just something that happens to glass when dropped.
  A good step forward would be for the FTC to require manufactures to explicitly disclose the repair cost & minimum availability for key components at purchase. Ex:
  Battery: 1 year free warranty, guaranteed availability for a maximum charge of $n until yyyy/MM/dd(*)
  Screen: 1 year free warranty for defects, guaranteed availability for a maximum charge of $x until yyyy/MM/dd, and $y until YyYy/Mm/Dd
  Electrolytic Capacitors: 10 year warranty, or replacement with newer model (not necessarily the newEST model) that's at least as good.
  Buttons & connectors: 1 year warranty, 5 year guaranteed availability of repair with maximum charge of $k(*).
  (*) And if they can't satisfy the repairability guarantee, they'll have to refund some fair fraction of the original purchase price based on age (say, 100% up to 18 months, 80% after 18-24 months, decreasing by another 10% per 6 months thereafter).
  I'd even allow them to be assholes & enforce absurdly-short (or outrageously expensive) terms... as long as they were required to accurately & effectively communicate those terms to buyers at purchase, and really bend over backwards to make sure consumers know about terms the FTC deemed 'unreasonable'
  concrete example: Consumer buys new iPhone 17 (or Samsung Galaxy S16, or Google VoxelQ). The manufacturer guarantees battery-availability only until 8/31/22, which is less than 60 months from the date of first sale. After opening the box, the phone is in another sealed box with prominent federally-mandated warning (in English & Spanish for US phones) that says something like, "Warning, the manufacturer of this phone has chosen to not guarantee the availability of replacement batteries after 8/31/22. The FTC has determined that 80% of batteries will have less than 50% of their original capacity after 8/31/21. By law, you have an absolute right to return this phone to the seller for 100% refund and full cancellation of all contractual obligations and shipping charges arising from its purchase without charge as long as this seal is not broken. This right can not be waived or limited, regardless of seller policy or conditions of sale."
  ie, the Feds couldn't *stop* Apple (& others) from being assholes, but they could ensure that consumers KNOW Apple (& others) are being assholes & protect them from being victims unless they're absolutely HELLBENT on being victims. As long as the FTC's threshold for requiring the warning was reasonable enough for most vendors to avoid, its presence would be effective & would subject the mfr. to criticism & ridicule from magazines, reviewers, and probably late-night comedians. The key is to make sure it doesn't turn into a stupid, pointless warning, like "Warning: may contain peanuts" on a jar of peanuts or peanut butter.
  Consumer protection laws with teeth can and do work. Just ask anyone who was given a hard time by underlings or junior staff about getting a warranty repair for a jailbroken iphone or rooted Android phone until they summoned the manager & invoked the magic phrase, "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act"... at which point the manager, if he had any sense & valued his job, apologized *profusely* for the "misunderstanding" and *personally* made sure the phone got fixed, because anything else would risk a $50,000 per incident fine and mountain of subs
7. Re:Whaaaaaat? by Jahoda · 2017-09-23 04:19 · Score: 2
  
  What???? How about people just stop buying products from companies that adopt anti-consumer policies? Apple doesn't have a monopoly on smart phones.
  
  Well, being that an informed consumer is considered necessary for optimal functioning of the free market, in lieu of such legislation, I guess maybe we could simply mandate that Apple broadly advertise this repair policy, and not in fine print, upon the purchase of every device. Would that satisfy you?
8. Re:Whaaaaaat? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  You are missing the point. Apple is specifically trying to stop people like you from repairing iPhones and macbooks. Apple do not want you to sell your skills to the public so that you can fix their iPhones.
  
  In practice, it's difficult for them to stop you from replacing a blown polyfuse or damaged connector. But they're working hard to make sure that larger modules (like screens, switches, etc.) can't be replaced.
9. Re:Whaaaaaat? by Applehu+Akbar · 2017-09-23 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  Right To Repair really means "right to try to repair." It will not force manufacturers to make it more convenient to repair their stuff.
  Just try to repair a Microsoft Surface.
10. Re: Whaaaaaat? by dougdonovan · 2017-09-23 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  this is why i take my rolex to a chevy dealer.
Obvious BS detected... by Timothy2.0 · 2017-09-22 22:21 · Score: 5, Informative

Apple has lobbied against "Fair Repair" bills in 11 states that would require the company to make its repair guides available and to sell replacement parts to the general public. Instead, it has focused on an "authorized service provider" model that allows the company to control the price and availability of repair.

I can understand wanting only authorized techs working on their product, but it's a MASSIVE leap to go from that to lobbying in 11 states against "Fair Repair" bills.
1. Re:Obvious BS detected... by drinkypoo · 2017-09-22 23:24 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I can understand wanting only authorized techs working on their product, but it's a MASSIVE leap to go from that to lobbying in 11 states against "Fair Repair" bills.
  No, it really isn't. If those fair repair bills pass, then the law will explicitly prohibit only permitting authorized techs to work on their product. Lobbying against those bills is the only reasonable response for a company which doesn't want anyone repairing their products without their permission.
  The root problem is that unrepairable products are literally destroying our biosphere. They're made intentionally unrepairable so that the user has to buy a new computer in order to expand it, like Jobs tried to do with the original Macintosh. In spite of his efforts, the engineers gave the machine some expansion capacity because they knew than an unexpandable computer was bullshit.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
2. Re:Obvious BS detected... by swb · 2017-09-22 23:33 · Score: 1
  
  I can think of a couple of possible motivations (not a defense, but a potential explanation).
  One, a lot of the "fair repair" movement sprung from the auto industry's use of proprietary diagnostic information. If you didn't have the factory diagnostics, which they only sold to dealers, you couldn't diagnose the problem. It's possible that the language in some state bills is generic enough to cover the auto case, but also cover the Apple case and cause Apple to make available a bunch of its proprietary software to third parties under the heading of "diagnostic equipment and software" that makes (more?) sense in an automotive context.
  Two, it may force them to open up supply chains of parts to all comers. Apple may be reluctant to create the side business of selling a lot of parts to third parties, either constraining their own production capacity or just plain being expensive in terms of overhead.
  Three, there may be ways which third party repair places can make claims of "OEM Approved Service Vendor" under these laws. The real definition is "we can buy parts from Apple", the marketing perception is "Apple approved repairs". Apple's brand image gets damaged by fly by night operators who do shitty work.
  I'm not sure any of these are substantive, but I can see Apple worried about potentially broad "Fair Repair" bills that try to cover a wide swath of products, from cars to combines to industrial equipment to consumer products and find the vague language potentially unpalatable to their specific business.
3. Re:Obvious BS detected... by p.g.king · 2017-09-23 00:01 · Score: 1
  
  It's possible that the language in some state bills is generic enough to cover the auto case, but also cover the Apple case and cause Apple to make available a bunch of its proprietary software to third parties under the heading of "diagnostic equipment and software" that makes (more?) sense in an automotive context.
  Can't see why it wouldn't make sense for devices other than automobiles, having to share tools they already have with others doesn't really seem any different. Why would electronics in a phone be any different to electronics in a car (which is what most of the auto stuff is really about)
  
  Two, it may force them to open up supply chains of parts to all comers. Apple may be reluctant to create the side business of selling a lot of parts to third parties, either constraining their own production capacity or just plain being expensive in terms of overhead.
  I can see this more, developing a fully fledged supply chain for lots of small value items is quite possibly a business apple don't want to be in, OTOH there are already suppliers of components who do just this, Apple being willing to supply one or two of those would resolve this issue. Anyone who has bought spares for cars knows that OEM parts are usually pretty expensive - buying all the parts individually to make a car is probably many times the cost of the car pre built. This could actually be a useful revenue stream if done right. Perhaps the real reasoning behind it is more that more people will be interested in after market parts rather than genuine apple parts.
  
  Three, there may be ways which third party repair places can make claims of "OEM Approved Service Vendor" under these laws.
  
  I can't see how this would be the case, but even if it somehow were surely the proportional response is to work on ensuring that the laws precluded that, rather than trying to ditch the laws altogether?
  For many smaller manufacturers I can see why such laws are potentially problematic, it means they have to pass the costs of implementing onto the customers and that may in turn actually make them non-competitive. In the case of someone like Apple et al. I can't see how this really applies they aren't working on cut throat margins or lacking economies of scale.
  I can also see though that Apple (like all the others) are a commercial entity, they are in it to make a profit, and things which may threaten the size of that profit are naturally something to engage with- the real question is going to be is the potential loss in customers (and then profit) due to repairability issues greater than the loss from any profitability of repairs and any loss of reputation/good will from poorly done repairs/sub standard third party parts? A question unlikely to have a definite answer.
4. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Hognoxious · 2017-09-23 00:39 · Score: 2
  
  Three, there may be ways which third party repair places can make claims of "OEM Approved Service Vendor" under these laws.
  
  If a garage even displays a BMW logo they'll get hammered for trademark infringement unless they're actually a BMW approved dealer.
  So yes, they can do it. Once.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
5. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Opportunist · 2017-09-23 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  But lobbying for monopolies is so anti-capitalist it hurts.
  But I guess capitalism today means "whatever benefits the corporations".
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
6. Re:Obvious BS detected... by lucm · 2017-09-23 01:54 · Score: 2
  
  I guess capitalism today means "whatever benefits the corporations".
  That's what capitalism has meant since day 1. This is the definition: "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
7. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Opportunist · 2017-09-23 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  Actually it was supposed to be that the production means are in private hands along with the purchasing power to buy those produced goods and services. It was never supposed to allow the producing side to determine what gets produced, the original idea required that the demand side chooses those products that deliver to the expectation, thus enabling those that produce what is in demand to continue producing while those whose products do not meet the demand will either have to change their products or perish.
  Right now the system is rigged so that the producer decides what may be produced. And that's more of a planned economy with the difference being that the private sector does the planning instead of the state. Other than that, it's a carbon copy of the communist model.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
8. Re:Obvious BS detected... by drinkypoo · 2017-09-23 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  But lobbying for monopolies is so anti-capitalist it hurts.
  No, it's so capitalist it couldn't be more capitalist if it were in the dictionary under capitalism. Capitalism is where capital controls the means of production. What could fit that description better than a monopoly? Monopolies aren't anti-capitalism, they're anti-free market. Most capitalism to date has not been in a free market; there is always some kind of manipulation, collusion, etc.
  The typical corporate goal of producing profit directly supports the activity of becoming as close to a monopoly as possible without getting in trouble for it. This is a natural consequence of capitalism, and it's the reason why you need some form of regulation in order for markets to operate for the maximum number of simultaneous participants. Capital accretes capital, so you need to limit that effect, or institute some kind of capital redistribution scheme.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
9. Re:Obvious BS detected... by lucm · 2017-09-23 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Bullshit. Capitalism is an economic system where the consumers are in control.
  No. What you describe is consumerism. Capitalism means that people who put in the money needed for a business venture (the "capital") are the critical part of the system.
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
10. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Carewolf · 2017-09-23 10:59 · Score: 1
  
  Three, there may be ways which third party repair places can make claims of "OEM Approved Service Vendor" under these laws.
  If a garage even displays a BMW logo they'll get hammered for trademark infringement unless they're actually a BMW approved dealer.
  So yes, they can do it. Once.
  That is not true. At least not in any country around here. They can't claim to be licensed, but they can always have BMW signs if they have expertise and that field or happen to have used BMWs for sale.
11. Re:Obvious BS detected... by aberglas · 2017-09-23 11:19 · Score: 1
  
  The big one is tractors and farm machinery. Farmers get screwed, and that matters in the mid west where many of these bills are coming from. Who cares about a $600 iphone when your $600,000 tractor is dead during harvest while only the authorized rep makes their way out to plug in their special computer for a very large fee.
  Apple will ultimately lose by being so closed. They could have owned the entire mobile phone market, plus tablets, plus ultimately desktops. All they needed to do was make iOS available for a small fee to all the other manufacturers. Apple would still make a premiumly priced product with the very latest iOS. But there would be no Android nipping at their heels. The would own he App Store for everything. They would own software.
  But they were born a greedy hardware oriented company, and that is how they will (eventually) die.
12. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Hognoxious · 2017-09-23 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  http://virtuosolegal.com/news-...
  "Use of the two logos (the âoeBMWâ logo, and the âoeMâ logo) would confuse the public as to who is actually behind the services coming from Technosport. It gives the impression that Technosport are official partners of BMW AG, and considering they are not, takes unfair advantage of BMWâ(TM)s reputation."
  https://www.uspto.gov/page/abo...
  "the defendant's mark is likely to cause confusion in the minds of consumers about the source or sponsorship of the goods or services offered under the parties' marks [...] In addition to claiming likelihood of confusion, a trademark owner may claim trademark "dilution," asserting that it owns a famous mark and the use of your mark diminishes the strength or value of the trademark owner's mark by "blurring" the mark's distinctiveness or "tarnishing" the mark's image"
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
13. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Attila+Dimedici · 2017-09-23 15:13 · Score: 2
  
  There is one problem with that definition, and it is intentional. It inserts a clause that is completely irrelevant to the economic system we call "capitalism" There is absolutely no reason for the phrase "for profit" in the definition. The appropriate definition of the system we call capitalism is "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners, rather than by the state." The purposes to which the private owners put a country's trade and industry are entirely up to them.If they use that control for profit, that is fine, if they use that control to benefit others,that is also fine. The key thing that makes it capitalism is that trade and industry are controlled by private individuals. --
  
  --
  The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
14. Re:Obvious BS detected... by drinkypoo · 2017-09-23 15:48 · Score: 1
  
  You don't need the logo. You can use the letters "BMW" in your own font, as in "we service BMW". That kind of use is typically protected because it's factual.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
15. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Opportunist · 2017-09-24 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  The real root of capitalism is the use of money to make more money.
  Funny enough, it isn't. In a perfect capitalist world, profit would be impossible. The impurities in the system make profit possible at all.
  A perfect capitalist model would enable everyone to compete with everyone, thus forcing everyone to lower production cost to the bare minimum and only allowing to sell at this cost because a perfectly informed demand side would only buy products that satisfy their demand and, since all the products do this because all producers also know perfectly what demand exists, would then decide based on the lowest cost.
  The very fact that profit is possible already shows that this is not a capitalist model we're living in.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
16. Re:Obvious BS detected... by Attila+Dimedici · 2017-09-24 14:53 · Score: 1
  
  Except that not all of the organizations which constitute a country's trade and industry are businesses. Some of them are non-profit organizations. The overwhelming majority of the elements of a country's trade and industry under capitalism will be run for profit...of course that is also true under communism and socialism. Under communism and socialism the people who profit from the country's trade and industry will be solely those who are politically connected.
  
  --
  The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Then I guess they're too complex for me own by darthsilun · 2017-09-22 22:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

And I'll just have to buy something else instead.
Problem solved.
And then there's this by fyngyrz · 2017-09-22 22:35 · Score: 5, Informative

I have a 2009 Mac Pro. It's a 12/24 core, 3 GHz-ish, 64 GB machine, lots of monitors. It's really pretty quick and there's certainly nothing wrong with it.
Apple, however, has made the next version of the OS unavailable to it, which in turn will make it slowly become incompatible with new software, etc.
I suspect that the whole "you aren't allowed to repair your iPhone" debacle is based on the same basic policy, which I would sum up as "screw you, customer, buy from us again or go without."
Particularly because the idea that no one but Apple's authorized money generators can repair an iPhone is patently absurd.

--
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
1. Re:And then there's this by drinkypoo · 2017-09-22 23:22 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  This is, of course, the history of the Macintosh. From the very start, Jobs didn't want anyone opening the case, and he didn't even want it to have any expansion beyond serial ports. He explicitly wanted the user to have to buy a new computer if they wanted to upgrade, producing revenue for Apple.
  This is literally only business as usual for Apple, ever since the Mac.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
2. Re:And then there's this by dk20 · 2017-09-23 00:16 · Score: 1
  
  cant you find a "tool" that tricks the installer into doing its job and updating the OS anyhow? This is an artificial limit apple puts in and i thought easily defeated?
3. Re: And then there's this by dnaumov · 2017-09-23 00:26 · Score: 2
  
  This is 2017. How many years of support do you expect from Apple and what is this expectation based on when taking into account policies of all other hardware manufacturers?
4. Re:And then there's this by slick7 · 2017-09-23 00:35 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your meat?
  If you don't eat your meat, you won't get any pudding.
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
5. Re: And then there's this by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 00:42 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Ubuntu Linux runs great on my old MacBook pro. All the drivers work, even for my Wacom graphics tablet. Linux seems to be a great way to extend the useful life of aging computers.
6. Re: And then there's this by msauve · 2017-09-23 00:45 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  He's talking about an OS upgrade, what do the "policies of all other hardware manufacturers" have to do with it?
  
  But, to the point, the Win10 requirements:
  
  Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster processor or SoC
  RAM: 1 gigabyte (GB) for 32-bit or 2 GB for 64-bit
  Hard disk space: 16 GB for 32-bit OS 20 GB for 64-bit OS
  Graphics card: DirectX 9 or later with WDDM 1.0 driver
  Display: 800x600
  The GP has a "a 2009 Mac Pro. It's a 12/24 core, 3 GHz-ish, 64 GB machine".
  
  So, it looks like Windows is doing a better job of supporting Apple hardware than MacOS is.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
7. Re:And then there's this by msauve · 2017-09-23 00:49 · Score: 2
  
  "He explicitly wanted the user to have to buy a new computer if they wanted to upgrade"
  
  Well, no. Apple offered 512K logic board upgrades to purchasers of the original 128K Macs.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
8. Re:And then there's this by michelcolman · 2017-09-23 00:56 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Now that wouldn't be so bad if they would not flat out refuse to repair your device.
  I had a broken screen on my iPhone 5, which was otherwise just fine. I brought it in, the price would be about 150 euros which is a lot (you can easily get a replacement non-original screen for less than half the price) but I didn't want to risk getting an inferior screen, possibly even containing malware, so I went through the official channel. A bit later I got a call saying they had diagnosed my phone and found a problem with the battery as well. They "had to" repair that, too, and since it was going to be too expensive, I might as well get a replacement refurbished phone for more than 300 euros.
  I insisted that my two year old battery was just fine (not quite lasting as long as when it was new, but sufficient for me) and only wanted a new screen, but no, they flat out refused. Apple only delivers devices in perfect working order with a three month warranty, so they could not just repair the screen, end of discussion.
  I ended up getting a fake screen from some grubby repair shop after all. Works like a charm, by the way. And the battery still works just fine.
9. Re:And then there's this by michelcolman · 2017-09-23 01:06 · Score: 1
  
  I can sort of understand that, as they add more features to the OS, it becomes difficult to keep supporting older hardware. However, they also make it extremely difficult and even impossible for other software authors to support older hardware no matter how much effort they want to put in and no matter what their user base is. For example, if you want to support the iPhone X display (without black borders), you have to use the latest SDK, which only works with the latest version of XCode, which has a minimum deployment target of iOS 7. That means I cannot write software that works full screen on iPhone X and also still works on my kids' old iPad. It's not just hard to do, it's flat out impossible.
10. Re:And then there's this by drinkypoo · 2017-09-23 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  Well, no. Apple offered 512K logic board upgrades to purchasers of the original 128K Macs.
  I'm talking about CPU upgrades, system expansion, that kind of thing. It didn't even have SCSI until the Plus, and it didn't have an expansion slot until the SE, which had a processor direct slot. (I just sold one with a Radius Accelerator SE 16, it's still in my room here behind me until the seller gets into town and I go drop it off.) So there was no user-accessible expansion until the third model, and no means of upgrading to a faster CPU until the fourth. PCs had standard motherboards so you could upgrade that underneath all of your peripherals and an industry-standard expansion bus, hell even the Amiga had an accelerator connector (basically the same as PDS) and a fancy-pants parallel port that could be used to get over 200kbps of throughput to a peripheral device. And this lack of initial expandability was a conscious decision.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
11. Re:And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  Particularly because the idea that no one but Apple's authorized money generators can repair an iPhone is patently absurd.
  So you have the equipment to repair an iPhone? Or a Samsung for that matter? They are remarkably similar inside. I can repair them, and I am surprised at just how many Slashdotters have the skills, the steady hands and the equipment to repair these things.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
12. Re:And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  This is, of course, the history of the Macintosh. From the very start, Jobs didn't want anyone opening the case, and he didn't even want it to have any expansion beyond serial ports. He explicitly wanted the user to have to buy a new computer if they wanted to upgrade, producing revenue for Apple.
  This is literally only business as usual for Apple, ever since the Mac.
  For what it is worth, I've been opening and upgrading Macs since Toaster days. Even iMacs.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
13. Re:And then there's this by jrmcferren · 2017-09-23 01:21 · Score: 1
  
  In theory it MAY be possible depending on what is causing the limitation. I know a lot of old (and to me iconic) models were able to upgrade one last time due to a software faking the existence of a "required" component. It was a way to allow the old Clamshell iBooks (and likely other models) to upgrade from 10.3 to 10.4. I'm sure Apple is a bit smarter than that now.
  
  --
  sudo mod me up
14. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 01:23 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  This is 2017. How many years of support do you expect from Apple and what is this expectation based on when taking into account policies of all other hardware manufacturers?
  It's Apple. They could hand out free blowjobs from Sophia Vergara with each Mac sold, and Slashdotters would bitch about it. What they don't understand is that this sort of thing will affect whatever they are using.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
15. Re: And then there's this by freeze128 · 2017-09-23 01:48 · Score: 1
  
  ...until there is a significant kernel upgrade, and the hardware drivers are no longer supported by the new version.
16. Re: And then there's this by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 01:48 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  There's a difference between support and letting us work on our own stuff.
  My house is over 50 years old, and I can change an outlet any time I want without calling the guy who built it. I can buy a 100 year old car, and tear it right down to the frame and replace every single component. In fact, a lot of people make hobbies or businesses off that fact.
  Then there's apple. "Oh, you couldn't possibly figure out the complexity of replacing a small circuit board on a ribbon cable!
  Except that it's fully possible for plenty of people, but for Apple's unethical attempts to make the unit unrepairable artificially.
17. Re: And then there's this by lucm · 2017-09-23 01:48 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's Apple. They could hand out free blowjobs from Sophia Vergara with each Mac sold, and Slashdotters would bitch about it.
  Or Apple could force customers to get sodomized by a pony when they buy a Mac, and fanbois would still wait in line at the Apple Store, and they would defend Apple on Slashdot, talking about how this is helping ponies
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
18. Re:And then there's this by msauve · 2017-09-23 02:15 · Score: 1
  
  " no user-accessible expansion until the third model, and no means of upgrading to a faster CPU until the fourth.."
  
  PCs didn't have upgradable processors, either. Every Mac came with networking support, Apple came out with external floppy and hard disks. And, although the official method of expansion was external, the lack of slots didn't stop third party expansion. I had a 128K Mac, upgraded to 512K, then added an internal 10 MB hard drive (Hyperdrive).
  
  "...fancy-pants parallel port that could be used to get over 200kbps of throughput..."
  
  LocalTalk ran at 230 kbps.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
19. Re: And then there's this by michelcolman · 2017-09-23 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but you have to choose one to submit to the app store.
20. Re: And then there's this by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  You must be new to open source.
21. Re: And then there's this by sound+vision · 2017-09-23 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  The iMac I had had a small panel in the back for the end-user to perform upgrades. You could put exactly two things in it: a stick of RAM and an AirPort card (proprietary apple wireless network, for those too young to remember). I'm not sure if they went out of their way to lock you out of the rest of the hardware, like they do nowadays. But it was clear the end-user was never intended to mess with the hardware besides the slots in the expansion panel.
  
  As a side-note, the disk in that iMac ended up having a head crash due to totally inadequate cooling. They thought it was ok to cram a bunch of hot hardware and a CRT into a tiny bubble with no case fans. They have a long history of overheating computers for aesthetic reasons, starting with the Apple 3 and continuing through to a couple years ago with the MacBook Air. Their design philosophy hasn't changed, so I expect this issue to keep popping up in the Apple product line perpetually.
  
  They were doing the dongle thing back then as well. I had to buy a separate floppy drive, which in 1998 was essential. 2 years down the road it quit receiving OS updates... They called the omission of a removable media drive forward-thinking, yet the computer was planned into obsolescence before next-gen USB media were even a mature technology.
22. Re:And then there's this by ctilsie242 · 2017-09-23 02:52 · Score: 1
  
  There are drivers for older Macs to allow the latest macOS to install on them. You have to turn off SIP and keep it off, since the kexts used are definitely not signed... but if you want that black MacBook from 2008 to run High Sierra, it is doable.
23. Re: And then there's this by omnichad · 2017-09-23 03:10 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  With Apple, they block you. With Windows, you at least get to make that choice for yourself. Of course those specs are absurdly low, but Apple won't let you update really powerful hardware.
24. Re:And then there's this by mfnickster · 2017-09-23 03:14 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  "He explicitly wanted the user to have to buy a new computer if they wanted to upgrade"
  Well, no. Apple offered 512K logic board upgrades to purchasers of the original 128K Macs.
  Against Steve's wishes, though.
  Steve Jobs objected, because he didn't like the idea of customers mucking with the innards of their computer. He would also rather have them buy a new 512K Mac instead of them buying more RAM from a third-party. But this time Burrell prevailed, because the change was so minimal. He just left it in there and no one bothered to mention it to Steve, much to the eventual benefit of customers, who didn't have to buy a whole new Mac to expand their memory.
  Steve had left by the time the Mac II came out, and it was Gassee's call to allow expansion slots.
  I will say the Power Mac 7500 I bought in 1995 was supremely expandable, and easy to open the case and work inside it. I upgraded the RAM, hard drive, CPU (to a G3) and optical drive. I got a lot of miles out of that Mac!
  
  --
  "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
25. Re: And then there's this by spire3661 · 2017-09-23 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  Yes it will. I have 16 gb 8" winbook running win 10. I use it as a mobile file handler for sd/usb drives.
  
  --
  Good-bye
26. Re:And then there's this by 50000BTU_barbecue · 2017-09-23 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  You could pop a V20 in the socket....
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  
  --
  Mostly random stuff.
27. Re:And then there's this by rabbitdog · 2017-09-23 03:51 · Score: 1
  
  Well, technically, the "next version" is MacOS High Sierra, being released on Monday, and Apple did not have to limit the hardware that can run it. https://arstechnica.com/gadget...
  2009 Mac Pro supported OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard http://www.everymac.com/system...
28. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 04:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's Apple. They could hand out free blowjobs from Sophia Vergara with each Mac sold, and Slashdotters would bitch about it.
  Or Apple could force customers to get sodomized by a pony when they buy a Mac, and fanbois would still wait in line at the Apple Store, and they would defend Apple on Slashdot, talking about how this is helping ponies
  Having Apple devices since there have been Apple devices, I'd be fine with Lady Sophia's services, but your rabid hatred of Apple and your odd example might be looked at by some as both hatred and projection, there Bronie
  Just sayin'. I have Apple, Windows, Linux, iPhone and Android devices at present. Youre hatred is misplaced and has a strange basis, each is just another device.
  But Hey! Ponies!
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
29. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  OMG ponies!!!1
  And Bronies too! https://singsintraffic.files.w...
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
30. Re: And then there's this by dunkelfalke · 2017-09-23 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  It is not that difficult. SMD soldering requires much steadier hands and yet people do it, even at home.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
31. Re: And then there's this by Type44Q · 2017-09-23 04:18 · Score: 1
  
  Installed a lot of distros, have you...
32. Re: And then there's this by Type44Q · 2017-09-23 04:20 · Score: 1
  
  So you have the equipment to repair an iPhone?
  Aw fuck; how shall we ever afford a $2 spudger??
33. Re:And then there's this by msauve · 2017-09-23 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  Problem is, it didn't work that way. The motherboard was made to take either 64K or 256K DRAM - that's what Burrell put in. But the RAM was soldered in, so unless someone had the equipment and skill to desolder 16 DIP chips, AND build a small circuit to add a needed decoder, they didn't upgrade that way. Sure, a few hobbyists did, but the vast majority bought motherboard upgrades from Apple, which were installed by a dealer.
  
  Oh, and Apple also offered 512Ke upgrades, which included a double-sided 800K drive.
  
  And Steve was around when they sold those upgrades. An upgrade to the Mac Plus, which had expandable memory and SCSI, and which was developed while Jobs was around (it was released shortly after he left) was also offered.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
34. Re:And then there's this by voss · 2017-09-23 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  You can run that monster on Linux for the next 15 years probably.
35. Re:And then there's this by thadtheman · 2017-09-23 04:55 · Score: 2
  
  That is absolute bullshit.\
  The original Macs were supposed to come in two packages 128K and 512K, and everyone knew that 128K was way too little. But Ram shortages made the 512K version very rare. Apple promised this by telling people that wehn the RAM became available they would offer them an upgrade option.
  When the upgrade option became available though it was highly overpriced. Users were forced. into one of three options. Go without, pay a ton or go with third party upgrades that voided the warrantie.
  Adding a hard drive would also void the warantie because "why would you want to add a hard drive". This attitude actuallly drove away a lot of Apple fans from Apple forever, and led to the disenchantment which drove Jobs away from Apple.
36. Re: And then there's this by lucm · 2017-09-23 05:24 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  your rabid hatred of Apple
  I don't hate them (or their customers), I'm just trying to offer a bit of counterbalance to the endless fanboyism on Slashdot. Apple stories haven't been "news for nerds" for a long time.
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
37. Re:And then there's this by sjames · 2017-09-23 05:35 · Score: 1
  
  PCs had a socket for an 8087 (math co-processor) and the CPU was socketed as well. The NEC V-20 was pin compatible with the 8088.
38. Re:And then there's this by epine · 2017-09-23 05:49 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Adding a hard drive would also void the warranty because "why would you want to add a hard drive". This attitude actually drove away a lot of Apple fans from Apple forever, and led to the disenchantment which drove Jobs away from Apple.
  I was one of those people with enough dosh in my foolish youth to spring for the original fat Mac (something just shy of CDN $4000 with printer and external floppy as I dimly recall), which within less than two years became a decorative boat anchor after I priced an internal hard drive upgrade at CDN $1500, which instead I spent, as I now recall it, on an entire crappy 80286 clone, which was ugly and clunky, but far more useful to me as a software developer.
  What first drove me absolutely ape-shit about my double-floppy fat Mac was that whenever it needed something from an unmounted floppy, it would by (some inscrutable logic) pop one of the two mounted floppies—almost always the disk it would seconds later request that I reinsert.
  I knew my workflow, the machine didn't, yet it figured it should choose which disk to auto-eject, and I shouldn't even have my own button. I never had a development workflow that required less than three floppies.
  Soon I had installed permanent paperclips in both floppies so I could override this outrageously unhelpful behaviour, whose mother was a sentient elevator servicing a hamster high rise, and whose father was a talking toaster who smelled of elderberries.
  It drove me APE FUCKING SHIT.
  And you're quite right. I've never gone back to the Apple fold.
39. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  It is not that difficult. SMD soldering requires much steadier hands and yet people do it, even at home.
  That's true. I have assembled many SMT devices. I do prefer the slightly larger chip caps and resistors. The smaller ones are just too easy to lose, even with solder paste. But I hear many Hams lament that it isn't possible to do homebrewing any more. And that is plain wrong.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
40. Re: And then there's this by Predius · 2017-09-23 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  So, I have at work a few first generation Intel Atom systems, a couple laptops with 2GB RAM, and a couple desktops with 4GB or 8GB. An 80GB HD is as small as I'll go as that has enough room for a Win 10 Pro install plus space for a couple insider build upgrade cycles before I have to do a disk cleanup run.
  They're not rockets by any stretch of the imagination, and the non Nvidia ION chipset based ones have almost zero graphics accel (but at least they're not showing grey squares any more when not rolling back to the generic SVGA driver...) but they are useable as light duty web browsers, etc. We primarily use them to see what potential gotchas are coming in the latest insider builds.
41. Re: And then there's this by Predius · 2017-09-23 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  Win 10 Pro x64 Insider edition with one update cycle and no disk cleanup after is only 30gb (Just did this yesterday). If you're sitting at 55gb used you've got something else eating space.
42. Re:And then there's this by antdude · 2017-09-23 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Did you get a malware from it though? :P
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
43. Re: And then there's this by k2r · 2017-09-23 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  > AirPort card (proprietary apple wireless network, for those too young to remember).
  I stopped reading here, because the first Airport Card did 802.1b. There was no proprietary wireless standard by apple, they just made Notebooks with buildin antennae and a socket for a PCMCIA card to connect to them before anybody else.
  They branded their antenna-less version of the Orinoco Gold (?) Airport.
44. Re:And then there's this by infolation · 2017-09-23 10:22 · Score: 1
  
  Upgrade the firmware from 4,1 to 5,1 -- it's unsupported by Apple, but it convinces the 2009 mac pro that it's a 2010 mac pro, and can accept High Sierra.
  
  http://appleinsider.com/articl...
  https://arstechnica.com/gadget...
  how-to video
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
  
  Hope this helps.
45. Re:And then there's this by Carewolf · 2017-09-23 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  I have a 2009 Mac Pro. It's a 12/24 core, 3 GHz-ish, 64 GB machine, lots of monitors. It's really pretty quick and there's certainly nothing wrong with it.
  Apple, however, has made the next version of the OS unavailable to it, which in turn will make it slowly become incompatible with new software, etc.
  Yeah, and it is a completely fake limitation too. You can completely work around it by updating the bios, then the newest macOS versions will install just fine. Well it least for my 2009 Mac Pro at work it was easy and very safe bet as 2010 Mac Pros has been made with the exact same hardware inside, that were still supported.
46. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 11:15 · Score: 1
  
  Pro tip: every single iMac model has inferior HDD cooling capacity, even with a system that has always been kept dust free. Hell, the last time I replaced the disk in my work iMac, I used one of the fan control apps to bump the idle speed up, and my disk died again within 2 years.
  Macs have inferior cooling. Period.
  Except the old G5 and Pro towers. Those were the bomb.
  My two G5 Pro's in my office and the Xserver required a change in our handling system because the room turned into an oven, and it sounded like a jet engine when I was rendering, The heat sinks on the Pro's processors were nearly the size of a Mac Mini.
  And yet, my i5 imac runs warm but continuously with no problem. And the new iMacs run ridiculously cool. I'd get one, but I'm waiting for the specs to get better to make it worth it.
  I've visited a lot more Windows machines with temperature problems than Macs. Thanks for the Protip.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
47. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  your rabid hatred of Apple
  I don't hate them (or their customers), I'm just trying to offer a bit of counterbalance to the endless fanboyism on Slashdot. Apple stories haven't been "news for nerds" for a long time.
  So you do the same for Windows users? Or do they speak only sooth, and the only "fanboys" are Apple users? Perhaps there is a role for you, as a beacon of shining light, truth, and the (enter your country here) way, skewering the fucked up Apple users, with a rapier wit, leaving them mentally devastated, and finally seeing ther error of their ways. They repent, but just like apostasy, there are some sins that gawd simply will not forgive, such as owning and likeing an Apple product.
  That's why he gave Steve Jobs Pancreatic cancer you know.
  But all black humor aside, I'm typing this on my Mac, while to my right is an HP Envy laptop, the Mac has Windows 7 and bootcamp as well, and to my left is a core2duo 27 inch iMac running Ubuntu Mate. It's too old for the latest updates, but was gentlely used by a friend, and she's moved to all laptop, so here it ispretty as you please. I use all of them every day. And yes, it's true that I prefer Unix and variants. But personal preferences should't classify one as a "fanboy"
  Seems like "fanboys" aren't quite what they used to be. I never classified myself as one, inless debunking the bullshit that is spewed in here makes a person a "fanboy."
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
48. Re:And then there's this by rtb61 · 2017-09-23 12:03 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Well, if that is Apple's market that is Apple's market. The real way the law needs to be updated is that customers need to be made fully aware at point of purchase, the abnormal limitation upon device repair and the costs involved, failure to make the customer demonstrably aware of those limitation else, the customer should be entitled to a refund at any time after purchase.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
49. Re: And then there's this by sound+vision · 2017-09-23 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  There's no screen cover because the screen is the big end of a glass cathode-ray tube. And there definitely were not case fans. You seem to not have comprehended my argument, which was about consistently poor design choices, for which I provided three models spanning 30 years as examples.
  
  What Microsoft does isn't relevant to any of that, but they have their own long-running problems as well, some of them similar to Apple's.
50. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  There was no determinable hatred in the post by lucm.
  "Or Apple could force customers to get sodomized by a pony when they buy a Mac."
  As he wrote.
  I don't know about you, but I wouldn't invite any Samsung users to be sodomized by a pony. That's not considered a friendly act in very many places, although I've heard about some strange and disturbing goings on in Tijuana, Mexico.
  Just relax, muchacho, This is the weekend on Slashdot, and conversations go where they go. The easily offended are advised to read at +5
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
51. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-23 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  It's Apple. They could hand out free blowjobs from Sophia Vergara with each Mac sold, and Slashdotters would bitch about it.
  That's because Slashdotters don't know what a blowjob is supposed to be.
  Some dude above found the idea offensive!
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
52. Re: And then there's this by koomba · 2017-09-23 20:26 · Score: 1
  
  Are you drunk or just wilfully stupid? The fact that he said hot components and a **CRT** should clue you into the fact that he was talking about the older ones. You know, the ones with....CRT screens? So your snarky comment and link to a 2011 IMac has fuck all to do with what he was talking about.
  
  But don't let basic reading comprehension and facts slow down your automatic, conditioned Apple defender rant.
53. Re: And then there's this by HermMunster · 2017-09-23 22:52 · Score: 1
  
  Atypical.
  That attitude prevailed in every market.
  Today all free support is pretty much done by the communities regardless of the product. The attitude of holding you responsible for doing your work yourselves is not new. There has been a small vocal minority that alienated people with rtfm. Certainly that was the case.
  Open source today is massively massive with a hundred million installs of linux worldwide. Support is far better and in fact has been lauded that the community support is top notch.
  On the other side of things it is getting harder and harder to get solid free support from the windows and osx communities. The reason is that everyone is willing to help but few actually have the requisite knowledge to actually help and lead you down the rabbit hole wasting your time--just to read the replies.
  
  --
  You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
54. Re: And then there's this by Ol+Olsoc · 2017-09-24 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  Are you drunk or just wilfully stupid? The fact that he said hot components and a **CRT** should clue you into the fact that he was talking about the older ones. You know, the ones with....CRT screens? So your snarky comment and link to a 2011 IMac has fuck all to do with what he was talking about.
  His ancient iMac has "fuck all" to do with modern ones. And odd that you seem to question my reading abilities and comprehension when I referred specifically to the date he gave me of 1998. Which prompted my comment of wanting to discuss Windows 1 because I was surprised that an irrelevant ancient iMac - which is still pretty easy to get into BTW - has anything to do with the popular meme that you can't work on them.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
55. Re: And then there's this by lucm · 2017-09-24 15:33 · Score: 1
  
  Seems like "fanboys" aren't quite what they used to be. I never classified myself as one
  I never said you were one. I merely provided the other end of the spectrum to your blowjob analogy because I don't believe Apple products are at a disadvantage on Slashdot, quite the contrary.
  For the record, I used to own Apple devices, just like I used to own Blackberry devices and now own Samsung devices - I go with what is the most innovative and convenient at any given time. I'm not pro or anti anything in the absolute; i even had a nice LG Windows Phone for a while and it was great.
  So I've been around the block enough to notice when a brand is becoming all foam and no beer, and that's the case with Apple. Doesn't mean that I see every person who buys Apple products as a fanboi.
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
56. Re:And then there's this by The123king · 2017-09-24 19:36 · Score: 1
  
  It's worth remembering how small a quantity of RAM 128k really is. That's the same amount of RAM as 2 Commodore 64's, 3 ZX Spectrums, or 1/4 of an Atari 520ST. Most competing systems with comparable RAM were text based with little or no GUI available. Most other machines with a GUI (Atari ST, Amiga) shipped with a minimum of 512k usually
  
  --
  If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
57. Re:And then there's this by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  Our first Mac was an SE, and we upgraded from 1M of RAM to 4M using a kit we bought. It wasn't difficult at all, and there was no solder involved anywhere in the process.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
58. Re:And then there's this by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  It was eight times the RAM on my first computer.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
59. Re: And then there's this by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  They have a long history of overheating computers for aesthetic reasons, starting with the Apple 3
  
  There were any aesthetic considerations for the Apple 3? Coulda fooled me.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
60. Re: And then there's this by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  In my observation, Apple fanboyism is less than Apple anti-fanboyism on /.. There are lots of people who go to Apple stories just to say that Apple sucks for some reason that is likely neither accurate nor relevant. I'm not sure why they can't just be happy not having Apple products and ignore the Apple stories.
  Apple computers are an easy way to get a Unix system, and /. runs stories on new Samsung phones. I don't see them as inappropriate here.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
61. Re: And then there's this by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  So you have one version that takes care of your wife's iPad, and one version to build software to sell. There's very little commercial opportunity in supporting systems that old. Anyone who still has one either finds that it suits their needs or doesn't have money to spend.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
62. Re:And then there's this by eclectro · 2017-09-28 16:50 · Score: 1
  
  Actually they did have upgrade processors available most of the time in different forms. Here's an interesting history of Cyrix, a third party x86 cpu supplier.
  
  --
  Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
63. Re:And then there's this by msauve · 2017-09-28 18:12 · Score: 1
  
  Cyrix wasn't in the market until 5 years after the time being discussed.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Lovely by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · 2017-09-22 22:41 · Score: 1, Informative

"Just when you thought we want to rob you once, we actually want to rob you twice."
-- Apple Care
1. Re:Lovely by messymerry · 2017-09-22 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  Not twice... We want to rob you repeatedly and often more than once a day. Apple is a central figure in the development of the "Digital Panopticon". The hordes of brain dead zombies that march to their siren song are going to put out the lights for the lot of us.
  
  --
  Dear Microlimp: I give you 2 valid product keys for win7 and you reject both of them. Piss off you wankers!!!
2. Re:Lovely by lucm · 2017-09-23 02:11 · Score: 1
  
  The hordes of brain dead zombies that march to their siren song
  Owning an iPhone used to be a fashion statement. Now it's just a demonstration of poor judgment and a willingness to bend over and take it up the ass in order to gain acceptance from the Starbucks crowd.
  Thankfully those idiots are easy to spot, it makes it easier to utilize them properly (ex: put them on United Way duty and keep them away from important servers or files).
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
Re:'Unauthorised' repairs by sheramil · 2017-09-22 22:56 · Score: 1

Amusing also after all the comments about 1984, how closely this fits to part of the story of Brazil. Shame they don't sell air conditioning.
Shame there isn't an Archibald Tuttle who would rappel in, fix your phone, give you a jaunty wink and then rappel away again.
You don't need to repair this. by Ash-Fox · 2017-09-22 22:59 · Score: 1

So, what I understand from this is Apple are very complex products that can't be repaired. So, when they break, throw them away.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
1. Re:You don't need to repair this. by Ash-Fox · 2017-09-22 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  **Apple have very
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
2. Re: You don't need to repair this. by Kjella · 2017-09-22 23:32 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Well repair of small electronics has been dying for 30 years, Apple isn't helping but the overall trend is much broader. But as long as Apple is making manuals and parts for themselves I have no problem with them being forced to offer it to the public. They can reject warranty cases they believe are due to botched repairs, make the phones less repairable if they want but not monopolize after-market services. If it was up to me monopolizing after-market accessories would be outlawed too, if you want to hook something up to lightning port the interface should be documented and free. Proprietary formats, protocols and interfaces are a pox on society.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
3. Re: You don't need to repair this. by Ash-Fox · 2017-09-23 00:01 · Score: 3
  
  I have no problem with them being forced to offer it to the public.
  I think they shouldn't.
  But, what I think should happen is a very clear advisory must be verbally provided to the consumer in a store (or otherwise displayed on the product page clearly) about the loss of the repairability of the device, that Apple do not allow authorized sellers to replace most components and that they set the repair terms, prices etc. The regulation done in such a way that they cannot spin it.
  I don't like false advertising and I don't like uninformed purchases. However, I think people should be free to sell and purchase what they want, as long as all parties understand the situation accurately.
  
  Proprietary formats, protocols and interfaces are a pox on society.
  Another thing I think the customer should be informed about in simple detail as to what they lose out on in this situation.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
4. Re: You don't need to repair this. by lucm · 2017-09-23 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  I have no problem with them being forced to offer it to the public.
  I think they shouldn't.
  I completely agree. I don't like Apple but I think people deserve the companies they vote for with their dollars. If this means that iPhone users must pay a fortune to get their idiotic device repaired by a member of the Apple crime family, so be it. Unlike what surfaces on Slashdot because of the biased editors and handful of fanbois, Apple has no longer any influence in the industry. Whatever the fuck they do to their customers has no global impact.
  In the free world (aka Android), there's obviously a top dog but even them cannot control the market, because the runner-ups could easily topple them if the customers were unhappy with the products or services.
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
Bad service design is not the same as complexity by An+dochasac · 2017-09-22 23:13 · Score: 4, Informative

Look at the teardown videos of their competitors. For example the 2015 Blackberry Priv, has a curved screen with display to the edge, wireless Qi charging, magnetometer, gyro, gps, barometer, QWERTY slide-out keyboard.., The teardown to replace the battery takes about 1 minute. Pulling out the main board keyboard, and everything until you get to the screen, another 5. But then the tech mentions that it is also possible to replace the curved screen from the front in about 5 minutes. And compared to cars, appliances, commercial technology, home entertainment systems, sewing machings, my 1999 Pismo... the Priv isn't easily repairable.
Apple simply chooses planned obsolescence over serviceability. And so I've chosen not to buy into their environmentally wasteful products.
Re:It doesn't go far enough. by mccalli · 2017-09-22 23:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why? No-one's forcing anyone to buy an iPhone. Buy an Android phone instead if that's what you'd like.
Re:Open Source Software has same problem by Ash-Fox · 2017-09-22 23:21 · Score: 2

I believe so-called open source software should be mandatorily open without any license agreement whatsoever.
That's Public Domain software. Just work on that instead of Open Source.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Well, it's the same with cars by rainer_d · 2017-09-22 23:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

Take it to some backyard-workshop for repairs? Warranty is gone.
That's why you take it to an authorized dealer/repair shop.
Why are people so hell-bent on saving every cent on repairs for a device that (now) can cost well above 1k USD?
That's like people buying a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce Wraith and then complaining about the cost of ownership because an oil-change or break-pad exchange or fixing a ding costs a fortune.
Weird.

--
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
1. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 00:33 · Score: 1
  
  People with enough money for a Ferrari don't care how much the upkeep is...they have the money.
  iPhone customers are not actually rich, they just want to act like it. So when they drop their polished turds they want to be able to fix it on the cheap. Chances are they didn't actually buy the phone and they are 'financing' it through their carrier because of how poor they actually are.
2. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by yeupou · 2017-09-23 00:58 · Score: 1
  
  The question is not why would someone want to fix things by himself or by a shop he trust but why do you want to prevent people from able to do so.
  If you bought a Rolls Royces Wraith, for the price you paid, dont you at least deserve to get the specs and required information to fix it, if perchance you'd like to? Should not that be a basic rule of business and acquisition?
3. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 01:07 · Score: 1
  
  The half shaft for my Porsche 944 (not a highly sought after or expensive car) costs over $400. It connects the transmission to one wheel with an axle and a CV joint on either end. The exact same part for a VW bus is $80.
  The AC compressor costs $600. The label says Denso, and it is practically identical to $200 compressors found in other cars.
  The shocks $400 each. The only difference between those and $100 shocks is a bracket welded to the side.
  This has happened over and over with this car. In other words, the premium price is attached to the brand name. There is no magic dust in the parts that make them special. Same with Apple, Kelloggs, and many overpriced brands.
4. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 01:38 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  ... brake-pad exchange or fixing a ding costs ...
  
  Let's use a car analogy: Have you taken your car in and the mechanic has said that you've driven it for 2 years, you have to buy another car? No: Because car manufacturers promise to make parts for 10 years. Your phone manufacturer doesn't and it's obvious why: That increases warehousing expense and cannibalizes latest-model sales. Allowing authorized Apple 'mechanics' isn't just more expensive than do-it-yourself repairs, it allows Apple to stop manufacturing legacy parts. Apple is justifying their luxury-tax philosophy so that idiots like you don't notice the real problem.
  If Apple really wanted to avoid burdensome legislation they would manufacture legacy parts for their authorized 'mechanics'. But they've decided fighting the government over (generous) consumer entitlements is cheaper than repairing old phones.
5. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by yeupou · 2017-09-23 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  As said in another comment, the question is not really for still under warranty devices.
  Reasons Apple might have are no concerns to the customers. Even worse with Cars? Cars company have already been fined for pulling this kind of crap (Renault Scenic with headlights bulbs that could not be changed without removing front shields of the vehicule, etc). It is surely going towards this. But that does not make it right.
  Now you mention "specific" tools. You mean "non standard". I think we know enough the benefits of using standards and the reason some people avoid standards, it is common issue in computer related business. Not making it right too.
  If I'm buying a Rolls Royce, I clearly think I paid enough to have the right to full ownership of the vehicule. Including specs and required info to fix it.
  Years (decades) ago, if I remember well, there was in some RedHat install some comparative speech about how cars would be if they were proprietary software: no possibility to open the hood and check the engine bay. Are you suggesting that it should be that way? What about ... freedom?
6. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by robbak · 2017-09-23 03:04 · Score: 1
  
  I don't disagree with you about mark-up for the Porsche parts. If they are the same parts as used on the VW, they should be the same price. You shouldn't be able to get a half-shaft labeled only "Porsche", as all of them should be labelled 'Porsche, VW'.... and probable half a dozen different manufacturers.
  But the bracket welded on the side of the shocks could easily make the price $300 dearer. The $100 part is $100 because it is made identical in huge numbers. Re-setup to make a few hundred with a different bracket, and the cost increases a lot.
  
  --
  Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
7. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by thegarbz · 2017-09-23 03:57 · Score: 1
  
  Take it to some backyard-workshop for repairs? Warranty is gone.
  If you had warranty you wouldn't take it to a backyard workshop, you'd just send it in and they'd send you a fixed device back.
  
  Why are people so hell-bent on saving every cent on repairs for a device that (now) can cost well above 1k USD?
  Because of the cost. Cracked screen on my mum's phone: Quote: $175 to replace. Actual cost: $11, and the ebay kit even included every tool I needed. But the repair takes time which is why companies will insist on replacing the entire display / touch assembly to fix a crack while a backyard shop will just replace the glass on the front of the screen for a very labour intensive job and still charge less than 1/3rd of the cost.
  
  That's like people buying a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce Wraith and then complaining about the cost of ownership because an oil-change or break-pad exchange or fixing a ding costs a fortune.
  No. The problem with Ferrari and Rolls Royce is that they are difficult to maintain, and the backyard repair shops will charge you just as much for that damn oil change as Ferrari would. What you are describing is complaining that instead of an oil change Ferrari insist on replacing the entire engine, and that happens just as much in the car world as anywhere else. (Toyota quoted my parents $350 to replace the entire instrument cluster because of a broken lamp, the local garage quoted $120 of which $105 was the several hours work to disassemble half the car to get at the lamp.)
8. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by sjames · 2017-09-23 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  and then deliver the parts in a box to Apple, demanding a repair. On warranty.
  And Apple will just laugh, because no warranty is expected to cover such a thing.
9. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by Kernel+Kurtz · 2017-09-23 13:03 · Score: 1
  
  That's like people buying a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce Wraith and then complaining about the cost of ownership because an oil-change or break-pad exchange or fixing a ding costs a fortune.
  Except that anyone can own an iPhone and few people can own a Ferrari.
10. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by technothrasher · 2017-09-24 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  People with enough money for a Ferrari don't care how much the upkeep is...they have the money.
  There are actually many cheapskates who own Ferraris. It's not that expensive (relatively) to get yourself into an 80's or 90's Ferrari, and owners bitch and moan endlessly about repair and upkeep costs.
11. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by technothrasher · 2017-09-24 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  at which point they can void the warranty on those parts, but not the whole car.
  They're not even voiding the warranty in that case, they simply have no legal requirement to warranty somebody else's work and/or parts. Any warranty claims would have to be made against whomever did the work.
12. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by rainer_d · 2017-09-24 14:01 · Score: 1
  
  How long do other mobile phone manufacturers produce spares?
  Can you get spares for a five year old... LG? From LG!
  Will LG repair it?
  Car manufacturers don't release a new model every year. They release a facelift after three years, and then a relaunch after four years.
  That's why they have spares for so long.
  I don't think they'd hold on to spares if they released a completely new model every year (or every other year, like Apple).
  A co-worker bought a six year old Land Rover Defender a couple of years back for a tour and needed some spares.
  The local dealer told him they didn't have spares for it, nor could the order them, because it was "too old".
  And Android users even complain when Apple's phones look the same two or three years in a row!
  ***
  I just checked: my iPhone 4S (released in 2011) is still "supported" and thus Apple will repair it (for a price). The predecessor is "vintage", though and Apple won't repair it anymore.
  So, Apple seems to support their phones longer than Land Rover Jaguar seems to support their cars.
  
  --
  Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
13. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by rainer_d · 2017-09-24 14:14 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I'm that sort of guy.
  I also go to certified doctors, not "traditional healers". And I'd call certified tradesmen to fix stuff (usually, my landlord will do that for me, though. I don't really have a say in who they call. But then, I usually don't pay for it either).
  And I bring my car to "official" dealers, yes. Same for my bike.
  Also, the days of backyard repair shops for cars (or just about anything) are coming to an end - fast.
  It's sad, in a way (I remember when dad would take the TV set to a local TV repair shop and they guy there would actually replace parts). But this is the way things go. Same as lamenting the demise of eight and six-cylinder engine cars ;-)
  
  --
  Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
14. Re:Well, it's the same with cars by rainer_d · 2017-09-24 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  Renault's Zoe electric car usually comes with a leased battery.
  If you are late on the payments, they'll just disable the car.
  Welcome to the 21st century.
  
  --
  Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Re: Bollocks by Entrope · 2017-09-22 23:56 · Score: 5, Funny

It takes Courage (tm) and money -- lots of money -- for Apple to create innovations like edge-to-edge screens, splash resistance, HDR displays in a mobile form factor, and OLED screens in phones. It's only fair for Apple to charge more than Android devices to deliver the kind of inventions that they do.
Just like by AndyKron · 2017-09-23 00:02 · Score: 1

Just like makers of fine vacuum cleaners sold door to door.
i agree with those stating apple is lying by strstr · 2017-09-23 00:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have repaired Samsung android and LG android phones. I have studied the guides. I have replaced screens.
I have also repaired by myself dell studio XPS and alienware laptops from replacement of the CPU, GPU, heatsink fan, and mobo, and more.
basically every device I've seen is self repairable, designed to open up like nothing, and each component is generally separate easy to remove and replace. this includes the screen, mobo, camera lense, camera itself, cases, bezel, glass on the screen, etc.
one can actually remove just the glass from the screen of most devices easy, and replace it when shattered, re-using the LCD/touch sensor.
on eBay or other site, one can order brand new or refurb every component of every phone.
basically you choose your difficulty level. either you want to replace a shattered screen entirely by ordering a whole new LCD/screen kit, or you attempt to remove the old glass and re-glue on new glass to save some bucks. or you order a new mobo/CPU combo. you just drop in the component removing the old. you re-assemble the phone and you're good. if you break anything during the process you just order a new one of those too.
Apple claims this is somehow too difficult for individual people to do..? why is that? what's it to Apple if you fuck up your phone or something or do low quality repair? the phone is already damaged and used up anyway!
it's so easy a cave man can do it.
https://www.obamasweapon.com/
1. Re:i agree with those stating apple is lying by thegarbz · 2017-09-23 04:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I have replaced screens.
  I have repaired screens. Where replacement screens can cost upwards of $150, on many OLED phones it's possible to actually separate the display from the glass front. I repaired a Galaxy S5 for $11 and those $11 included every tool except of the hot air gun. It not only included UV curing glue but even included the UV lamp needed to cure it.
  The repair world quotes based on rip/replace prices. An intermittent problem with the heaphone jack? Replace the entire main circuit board, fixed for $250. No one "repairs" anything anymore except for the tinkerers.
Contradictory by HalAtWork · 2017-09-23 00:15 · Score: 1

"You don't need to repair this. When you do, we want the repair to be fairly priced and accessible to you,"
First sentence is contradictory with the next sentence. That next sentence is exactly why people want to look at alternatives to Apple.

--
Twinstiq, game news
Corporate speak by DaMattster · 2017-09-23 00:20 · Score: 2

That's corporate speak for an assumption and an insult to consumers. I work in technology for a living and do not appreciate being labeled as being "too dumb to repair my own shit." This is what "Apple's top environmental officer" is accusing me of. I would have more respect for Apple if the head shed just came out and said, "We want to control repairs so that we have another stream of revenue." Don't try to sell me on how having an Apple authorized repair center will magically make things easier and worry free because I shouldn't be bothered with wanting to repair my own device. I replaced my girlfriend's cracked screen in an hour simply by watching a Youtube video. 2 years later, it's still working.
Re: Bollocks by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 00:22 · Score: 2

Wasnt samsung the first to introduce edge-to-edge screens? Doesnt Apple use Samsung displays in its phones?
i think you mean "innovations" (in quotes).
Obligatory viewing by Sebby · 2017-09-23 00:24 · Score: 3, Informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

--

AC comments get piped to /dev/null
1. Re:Obligatory viewing by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  Seconded, watch much of this guy and you'll realise just how disingenuous and corrupt apple are. They even tried to sue him for telling people how apple products work.
Developing Country by jblues · 2017-09-23 00:33 · Score: 1

I live in a developing country and there are plenty of repair options since a) nothing is regulated b) average wages are so low that it is economically viable to set up a repair shop. c) Close to China too, so parts are no problem.
It can be much cheaper than an official Apple repair. One ipad the LCD (not just the glass) was cracked. It looked like they replaced it with a 2nd tier part in terms of quality, but the device was basically bricked before they had at it. Its a good option when official repairs are a substantial portion of the cost of new, two generations later device.

--
If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
Re: It doesn't go far enough. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-09-23 00:35 · Score: 1

Name one place in the world where anyone is forced to buy an iPhone and I'll eat my hat. Fuck off with the hyperbole.
Is this for real? by Hognoxious · 2017-09-23 00:42 · Score: 1

Strip off the i and they won't be complex any more. Do I have to do all the thinking round here?

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re: Bollocks by Entrope · 2017-09-23 00:47 · Score: 1

If it helps clarify, I should have also mentioned wireless charging among the expensive innovations that Apple charges so much for.
Just confirms my opnion by TheAngryCat · 2017-09-23 01:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

I keep seeing reasons why not to buy an iPhone. A friend commented on his iPhone-7 $600.00 for the average person to replace the battery. He was referring to the lack of a removable battery. I'll stick with my LG V-20 a couple of mm thicker but seriously, who gives a crap. If Apple ran the US we would be an authoritarian dictatorship, and changing light bulbs in your home would require you to buy another home.
Too complex for repair? by Opportunist · 2017-09-23 01:27 · Score: 1

Sounds like you suck at designing sensible products, Apple.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
1. Re:Too complex for repair? by freeze128 · 2017-09-23 01:58 · Score: 1
  
  OK, Apple, PROVE IT! If you say that iPhones are too complex to repair, then start SOLDERING the screen, camera, other components directly to the motherboard. Don't use any type of easy "quick release" connector. After all, the iPhone is "Sooo Complex", so it should actually be HARD to repair. Only then will I believe that your iPhones are as difficult to repair as you say.
Just rely on us. You're too stupid to fix it. by biggaijin · 2017-09-23 02:06 · Score: 1

This is one of the major reasons that I stopped using Apple products many years ago. They charge a premium price for a device that is welded shut and can't be repaired. They cover their elitist attitude by flattering potential users with claims that their customers are somehow more artistic and creative than the hoi polloi. It's nonsense. They are all about selling as much overpriced hardware as possible.
Re:It doesn't go far enough. by jellomizer · 2017-09-23 02:10 · Score: 1

If anything, most phone makers would love to put iOS on their devices, and not so much iPhone users wanting to put Android on it.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re: Bollocks by An+dochasac · 2017-09-23 02:27 · Score: 2

Fixed that for you:

It takes Courage (tm) and money -- lots of money -- for Apple to steal competitor-developed innovations like edge-to-edge screens (Samsung 2014), splash resistance (Sony 2006), HDR displays in a mobile form factor (Sony 2017), and OLED screens in phones (Nokia 2008)... not to mention wireless Qi charging (Nokia 2012)
It's only fair for Apple to charge more than Android devices to deliver the kind of inventions that they umm, borrow.
Either Entrope's tongue is firmly in cheek or...
allegedly "Smart" alleged "telephones" by jabberw0k · 2017-09-23 02:37 · Score: 1

You are not permitted to write software for your own computing devices. You are not permitted to control your own computing devices. You have no way of knowing what your computing devices are doing, even as they monitor your every movement, your every word.
And you have the unmitigated gall to expect to be able to repair your own computing devices?
What will it take, before folks realize anyone using a so-called "smart" so-called "telephone" is being played for a patsy, a mark, a victim? Or are the masses so brainwashed they will continue to use these Orwellian telescreens?
1. Re:allegedly "Smart" alleged "telephones" by ledow · 2017-09-23 03:32 · Score: 1
  
  My smartphone has a native-running C compiler on it.
  If I wanted to, I could replace it with a free, open-source version of the same OS that it's already running.
  If my phone does something over Wifi, I guarantee you that I can know about it. Over 4G etc. is another matter, but to be honest, if you're running an OS you can audit pretty much you could just switch that off, use it only for GSM and isolate anything talking in or out.
  Repair components are easy to come by.
  My phone is just a mass-market Android smartphone, nothing special.
  Fact is, not enough people care, as proven by the existence and hyping of a company that doesn't let you do the above in preference. But even then, Android outsells iOS by about 10:1, but people never believe / research that statistic until you tell them that.
  Outside of that, say if you have a complete distrust of anything Android related even if it's not controlled by Google, what choice do you have? Zero. Therefore you take the device you can buy today in a shop and use it appropriately, rather than sit in your cave in the woods complaining about this "new-fangled fire thing, it's just an Orwellian conspiracy".
  The tools exist. People don't care. Even when it's obvious, stated, admitted, brought up, demonstrated, people don't care. They just want to play Angry Birds and make calls. If it actually mattered to them - for anything other than lip-service when you mention it - they'd not buy those kinds of devices. Fact is, it doesn't matter to them. Even the celebrity phone-hacks, stolen photos, etc. nobody actually CARES about or people would be up in arms thinking "What if that was my daughter".
  You're onto a loser if you think people just need a certain incident to make them realise what's happening. Just look at the news any day of the week.
You just described the most common license. by robbak · 2017-09-23 02:42 · Score: 1

What you describe - free and unfettered access to the source code and tools, without having to agree to anything - is a good description of the GPL. You do not have to agree to the GPL to download, edit or use code - at least, not beyond the standard, 'no warranty, no liability' clauses. The only time you have to agree to the GPL is when you distribute it to someone else - you must share the code if you do distribute it - which, if you are fixing defective code, is exactly what you want to do. Give someone the source code, or a compiled binary with the source code, and you have fulfilled all your GPL obligations.

--
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
Re: It doesn't go far enough. by Holi · 2017-09-23 02:47 · Score: 1

Absolute Bull Shit.

--
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
There are no authorized repair shops. by robbak · 2017-09-23 02:57 · Score: 1

If you iDevice is damaged, an apple store will sell you a new one. If it is covered under warranty, they'll swap it for someone else's trade-in. If you have irreplaceable data on your phone, stiff cheese; you should have backed it up.
Meanwhile, a non-authorized repair shop will fix almost any problem you have, unless Apple has taken technological (and unnecessary) measures to prevent it, at least until those measures are worked around. And if the problem is serious and unrepairable, they'll still get your data back to you if you are willing to pay for the extensive, detailed work that is often needed.
And these 'unauthorized' repair shops will often work out problems, and fixes, before Apple does.

--
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
Re: Bollocks by Entrope · 2017-09-23 03:07 · Score: 1

Perhaps you misunderstood the antecedent of "they" at the end of my comment ;)
Re:Mitutoyos on your desk but no where to go by ledow · 2017-09-23 03:49 · Score: 1

"and 20,000 silent iPhone readers rolling their eyes"
Which, by unit sales, means there'll be 200,000 silent Android readers rolling their eyes at them.
Sorry, but Apple is really nothing special, has never had a "first", doesn't understand that "design" doesn't mean pretty like "designer" does, and sells less than their competitors.
They're only business-positive advantage is that they make SO MUCH profit on every device that they are hugely rich. Which, I'm sorry, is not a criteria I desire in a manufacturer. Sure, they need to be profitable, so they can bring out the next model and sustain their support. But when you're the one paying for it so it sits in an offshore account and never gets used, I don't get it.
From the websites I see statistics for, iPhone users don't figure heavily at all. And the more tech-y the site, the less Apple-y the devices used to access it.
End of the cycle by sphealey · 2017-09-23 04:04 · Score: 1

Every technology goes through a cycle where the homebuilders and tinkerers are an important part of the ecosystem, and have a lot of fun doing so. Telegraph, electricity, radio, automobiles, airplanes all went through that cycle. Then the technology gets perfected, cleaned up, buttoned up, and ordinary human beings (non-tinkerers) just start using it for everyday. That leaves the hobbyists who come along at the end of the cycle and the greybeards who were there in the early days sad and unhappy, but that's the way it goes. Personal computers and mobile computing have now reached that point.
"authorized service provider"= code for mail house by citizenr · 2017-09-23 04:08 · Score: 1

"authorized service provider" is ONLY allowed to package the thing and send it to Texas , wait a week and receive _completely another_ refurbished unit.
They arent even allowed to replace batteries!

--
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Complexity is a red herring. Don't fall for it. by jbn-o · 2017-09-23 04:09 · Score: 1

"To think about these very complex products and say the answer to all our problems is that you should have anybody to repair and have access to the parts is not looking at the whole problem."
Complexity of the device is irrelevant, a distraction, and a red herring. The issue here is an owner's right to repair what they own, and this case should be fought and discussed on that basis. Any other argument (such as ones posted here like people saying they just won't buy Apple products) that even tacitly gives into an owner being denied repair right because the device is deemed to be "complex" is a very dangerous argument to make. It's right and proper to not do business with organizations that don't treat you properly, so not buying Apple products and services is perfectly reasonable and recommendable. But you're better off doing that while also letting the public know that it's better to demand a right to repair everything you own and not give into this notion that sufficiently "complex" items somehow legitimate denying an owner the right to repair their own devices. Apple's desire for more power and money may well "not looking at the whole problem" but that is not your problem.

--
Digital Citizen
1. Re:Complexity is a red herring. Don't fall for it. by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, you can repair an iPhone yourself (or try to, anyway), but Apple isn't going to help you. This isn't about "Right to Repair", it's "Right to Get Repair-Related Documents and Parts".
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
It just works ... for the moment by Hognoxious · 2017-09-23 04:17 · Score: 1

How many years of support do you expect from Apple

One. After that the hardware will break anyway.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
1. Re:It just works ... for the moment by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 06:26 · Score: 1
  
  I've never had an Apple product fail in under three years, and I've had a fair number of them since the Mac SE came out.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Re:Open Source Software has same problem by Ash-Fox · 2017-09-23 04:38 · Score: 1

The buying public will (sometime soon) be able to buy reverse engineered products made by companies not bound by one country's laws.
Nobody is stopping you move to China, move there if you really want to.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Apple Have A Point by Roger+W+Moore · 2017-09-23 05:26 · Score: 1

I have a 2009 Mac Pro.
The Mac Pro makes an excellent point in Apple's favour though because become so complex that Apple can't even figure out how to upgrade it. They had the same model for over 4 years with no updates so with complexity like that it's not even clear that they know how to repair it let alone anyone else.
1. Re:Apple Have A Point by Carewolf · 2017-09-23 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  I have a 2009 Mac Pro.
  The Mac Pro makes an excellent point in Apple's favour though because become so complex that Apple can't even figure out how to upgrade it. They had the same model for over 4 years with no updates so with complexity like that it's not even clear that they know how to repair it let alone anyone else.
  Man, it took my a while to decide you were being sarcastic.. Good sarcasm :D
Re: It doesn't go far enough. by lucm · 2017-09-23 05:28 · Score: 2

Absolute Bull Shit.
Bullshit indeed. Silicon Valley is all about "diversity" but they're basically just about having the same type of hipster/fanboi/antitrump young people in various shades of colors and genders. That's not diversity, that's variations on the same model.

--
lucm, indeed.
Don't buy phones that are hard to repair! by rleibman · 2017-09-23 07:15 · Score: 1

When I'm on the market for a new phone, I make it a point to send an email to the manufacturers of those I consider letting them know that I consider repairability a selling point. I also won't buy anything that scores below a 7 on this site: Repariability Score. I'm currently considering the latest Motorola phone to use on google fi, but I won't buy it until it's been rated.
1. Re:Don't buy phones that are hard to repair! by tomtomtom · 2017-09-24 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Ironically, if you look at the Apple phones on that list, what springs out at you is that over time the repairability scores have been getting better for them!
LOL, yeah right by XSportSeeker · 2017-09-23 08:48 · Score: 1

Oh yeah, iPhones are too complex to repair... which is probably why lots of independent repair shops are doing it at lower prices than official Apple repair, faster and more reliably.
I bet they are also trying to spare people the complexity of it by lobbying against any laws that would allow independent repair shops to fix their stuff.
This probably also has nothing to do with the fact that independent repair shops are often the ones finding out about design flaws and overall problems of iPhones that would never have been disclosed if people didn't have the choice... like the touch ID disease case. Nonono.
They provide it to Asurion by modzer0 · 2017-09-23 10:35 · Score: 1

That's funny because Asurion has multiple repair centers that tear down and refurbish iPhones and use Apple parts and maintenance interfaces that they're given access to. Nothing about what they do couldn't be done elsewhere by a trained technician.
Anyone buy that BS? by p51d007 · 2017-09-23 12:12 · Score: 1

Design it with a 2-3 score (iFixit scale), then say that if you have it repaired somewhere else, sorry...we'll not replace it. (cr)APPLE strikes again. Take away the fingerprint sensor, make some goofy face thing that doesn't work, make it impossible to repair, use "security" screws that are impossible to find the tools to take it apart...nothing like pissing off people, but, for the iSheep, they will see this as an "innovation".
"Durability" by OldSport · 2017-09-23 12:43 · Score: 1

Sneaky. From TFA:
"And Apple has designed for some time around durability, around the idea we can release the latest and greatest product, your old product still works and has value."
What they're not saying (but what every owner of an Apple product figures out at some point) is that every successive OS upgrade makes that "durable" hardware less and less usable. Apple gets to have their cake and eat it to: produce great hardware they can use as a selling point, but then cripple it with software to make sure the durability doesn't hinder sales.
1. Re:"Durability" by david_thornley · 2017-09-25 07:55 · Score: 1
  
  Typically, you don't want to do an upgrade to a new major version without checking reviews. Sometimes the last one isn't good for the device. I've got a four-year-old iPhone running iOS 10 just fine.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
There you go... by VeryFluffyBunny · 2017-09-23 16:44 · Score: 1

...Apple fans. What Apple Inc. really thinks of you.

--
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
Pretty outrageous by HermMunster · 2017-09-23 22:26 · Score: 1

At 200 to 500% the cost of the market's average repair costs that's rich and outrageous.

--
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Sorry calling BS on this by cmaurand · 2017-09-28 08:22 · Score: 1

An iPhone, an Android device are all the same. They are a system on a board and in some cases a system on a couple of chips. They are no more complicated than your desktop or you laptop; just smaller. So I"m calling BS on this one. Apple just wants control.