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EU Takes Ireland To Court For Not Claiming Apple Tax Windfall (reuters.com)
Philip Blenkinsop, reporting for Reuters: The European Commission said on Wednesday it was taking Ireland to the European Court of Justice for its failure to recover up to 13 billion euros ($15.3 billion) of tax due from Apple, a move labeled as "regrettable" by Dublin. The Commission ordered the U.S. tech giant in August 2016 to pay the unpaid taxes as it ruled the firm had received illegal state aid, one of a number of deals the EU has targeted between multinationals and usually smaller EU states. "More than one year after the Commission adopted this decision, Ireland has still not recovered the money," EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager said, adding that Dublin had not even sought a portion of the sum.
in back taxes as it had been given an unfair tax deal in Luxembourg. OK: Amazon saved some tax, but that saving allowed it to under-cut its rivals, some of who have been put out of business - will there be any compensation for those competitors, the cost of which could dwarf the back-tax bill ? I suspect that the answer is no in which case Amazon's dodgy dealings have been highly profitable and will continue to be so in the future -- as it has fewer competitors.
Well, I guess that would mean all companies based there would move.
Hey, yeah, let's argue about this. I can call you something like "idiot", and then people can pick sides and we can all be angry at each other.
Yes, God help us if companies are forced to pay their legally required taxes
Actually, Ireland wants to - and will - remain in the EU as they benefit from membership much more than Britain. Also, the EU has already told Catalonia that they (EU) will NOT recognize their claim of independence. But sure - keep stirrin the pot, Mr. Trump-Bannon-Farage.
So if Ireland doesn't get tax money, and benefits from having some folks employeed are way below whatever they'd get from this tax, why would they even consider such a weird move?
Other than someone in the government getting something from Apple...
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Prisoners will jealously defend their status as the prisoner that inflicts the beatings on other prisoners to save the masters the trouble.
Nothing new here. Typical race to the bottom.
but then big companies could not use the tax loophole to avoid paying tax in Europe... you could not safely transfer the low tax earnings from Ireland via EU free internal money transaction to Luxembourg or Netherlands to transfer then to the US using low tax money transfer from those countries (you can add other loops around, but this is basically it)
This are well known loopholes that the each Country politics and EU central politics fail to close, because it would affect very powerful companies and, of course, also private money transfers... those politics have to earn their money!! but there is problem, the remaining tax payers (common people) will pay more tax for covering that missing money!
Higuita
It wouldn't matter if the EU did recognize Catalonian independence as Spain would probably not consent to them joining the EU.
Also, isn't part of the reason that all of these companies incorporate in Ireland or have their European branched headquartered there officially so that they can funnel all of the revenue earned in the EU through Ireland for the lower taxes. Ireland leaving the EU removes the reason for those corporations to be there in the first place. It makes no sense for them to want to leave.
then they cant tax haven anymore. the russia backed cata movement will only fuck themselves.
and by the way, US and many other countries also have known tax loopholes that nobody with power really want to close. This is a global problem
Higuita
No, it's actually based on decency. And Europe isn't Socialist. It's Democratic Socialist which means certain things are sacrosanct (e.g. health care, education, etc.) and everything else is fair game as long as the rules are followed.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch
that would be economic suicide for them.
This whole affair just serves as another proof that the EU is an enormous quagmire of regulations and nobody knows where, when and how to apply them. These 'legal' proceedings will drag on for years and nothing tangible will ever come out of it.
RIP EU.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars...but invented Tesla and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks.
I think the stereotypes you subscribe to aren't working.
No, it's so they can funnel all the revenue earned GLOBALLY through Ireland.
Canada is closing tax loopholes, https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/07/17/ottawa-to-target-tax-loophole-exploited-by-wealthy-canadians.html
whats your excuse?
And then all the companies with offices in Ireland would leave, since even the legal part of their tax construction no longer works.
They did pay their legally required taxes to Irelend. The EU decided that Ireland's sovereign tax rate wasn't high enough. It's big EU countries trying to dictate what Ireland should do. That should not be legal.
In related news: Announcing our corporate tax rebate program.
-- Ireland
Have gnu, will travel.
While would Ireland or Catalonia bail from the EU? ...
And why the funk do you say: hopefully?
What do you have to gain if a certain country leaves the EU? I'm pretty sure: nothing. You most likely will need a passport to travel there, afterwards. Hardly a gain
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I'm in.
I think we should hitlerize the nazimistic terroristic pedophiliac child-endangerment side of the argument and stuff.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
The tax laws that govern where taxes are collected pre-date the EU.
Compared to the other systems which are based on greed?
Ireland is the Delaware of the EU.
Both are business-friendly.
Businesses have ____ (hint: lots of money).
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Ireland = assholes...
duh
ZOMG. A quantum-Godwin post. And I lived to see it.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Sounds so much better than 4th Reich, doesn't it?
We have all the tiki torches, so they couldn't have a Nazi demonstration.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
LOL, no just no.... Catalonia will get smacked down in less then a week...
I don't know about Europe but the EU isn't Democratic or Socialist. It's run by an unelected group who's primary concern is the protection of the banking system (especially the German banking system). If the EU were democratic or socialist Britain wouldn't be leaving. Catalonia, on the other hand would be as their beef is that it's not financially right-wing enough.
So the EU sues Ireland and the EU prevails - then what? Companies get shut down for evading taxes. You don't exactly shut down a country.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Unfortunately, it wasn't posted on usenet, so Godwin's law does not apply.
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound in the current year?
It sounds like the 1700's!
I imagine this... "The Crown has already told the Colonies that they will not recognize their claim of independence. But sure, keep stirrin the pot, Mr. Washington-Jefferson-Franklin." Sickening.
Then again, I also forgot that if you care about "dead white guys" that makes you a racist in 2017.
Europe is not any one particular political system. It's not Socialist nor is it Social Democrat. It is numerous countries all with their own governments formed by their Citizens.
In Europe, the most talked about and long lasting problems are associated with the democratic socialist system. In America, the most talked about and long lasting problems are associated with the turbo-capitalist system. Pick your poison.
By whom?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There is a reason people like Trump and Farrage won.
You may not agree but the majority of communities have real issues affecting them that DNC/EU leadership is failing to resolve and the Catalexit, Brexit (and more) is a symptom of overreaching governments.
Read up on the role the US/EU played in getting Hitler in power, the issues in Britain, France and Spain are very similar to post-WWI Germany.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
The emissions scandal wasn't specific to Volkswagen and I doubt it is the biggest corporate news out of Europe in the past couple of years.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars
They do. Dieselgate was about nitrous oxide, not about soot. And Volkswagen was not amongst the worst offenders, unlike Ford, Fiat Chrysler and Opel, which was a subsidiary of General Motors at the time.
but invented Tesla
Tesla was not 'invented'. It's a brand.
and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks
Daimler-Benz and Ernst Dickmanns are American now?
The only reason to choose an unapologetically capitalist system over a capitalist system with socialist add-ons is the honesty of the purely capitalist system: It doesn't aim for stability or decency. Its only driving force is greed. Everything that may be considered a failure in other systems is just part of the natural progression in a capitalist system. Crashed economy? That's how capitalism deals with economic bubbles. People losing their homes? They better learn from that and make better investments next time. Got shot at in Vegas and can't afford getting your wounds treated? GoFundMe.com.
Who sez the Irish can't bend-neez to Apple ? Like they usta say ... blo Jobs blo ....
Yeah sure. Because all the corporations have their offices there because of the rich, flourishing Irish internal market.
Or maybe because they have access to the EU market while paying tax-haven level taxation?
Let me ask you, are those corporations that interested in the Irish market? So why doesn't Ireland leave big bad EU?
What is in dispute here is that Ireland is behaving like a tax haven while enjoying full access to the EU market. Same thing for Luxembourg.
Part of its wave-function is on usenet, so Godwin's Law does apply. And it doesn't. Actually I'm not sure. I'll ask my cat, after I open her box.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
The word you are looking for is than.
The emissions scandal wasn't specific to Volkswagen and I doubt it is the biggest corporate news out of Europe in the past couple of years.
Volkswagen is only outfit that has been levied billions in fines, had to recall millions of vehicles, and had major corporate figures criminally charged stemming from the emissions scandal. What bigger corporate news has come out of Europe in past couple years? The oblivion of Nokia, maybe?
They do. Dieselgate was about nitrous oxide, not about soot. And Volkswagen was not amongst the worst offenders...
See my immediately previous comment.
...unlike Ford, Fiat Chrysler and Opel, which was a subsidiary of General Motors at the time.
See my immediately previous comment (again).
Tesla was not 'invented'. It's a brand.
The Model S was invented. Invented by Tesla to be specific. Model S represents first physical embodiment of the notion that an electric car could be fast, not look like rolling birth control, and have merits beyond environmental abstractions of the powertrain choice. See BMW i3 for European example of mainstream electric car. I say no more.
Daimler-Benz and Ernst Dickmanns are American now?
No, they are not American. They follow Americans, in this case the suddenly-emerging trend of autonomous driving that American industry is spearheading.
You mean, in the US you donâ(TM)t see headlines about a EU company layoff, layoffs also tend to kill the company because the unions make sure people stay on until the last penny has been squeezed. But Microsoft, IBM and Oracle have done it.
Yes. And that means the companies were not paying their legally required taxes? Who decides what companies should pay within a sovereign nation? Is it the nation, or the EU? And if there is an issue - does it mean the company didn't pay its legally required taxes, or that the nation violated some trade agreement it had?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Apple has had major facilities in Cork, Ireland since 1980-- 37 years ago, well before the Euro or modern EU existed. This isn't some non-operating legal entity deal like some other companies, which is what makes the EU going after Apple in particular so odd. Maybe some other companies have hopped onto some kind of Ireland loophole, and maybe Apple is getting a good deal there, but they moved into Ireland when that country wasn't in very good shape and have employed a generation of Irish, so it doesn't surprise me that Ireland is friendly to them.
E pluribus unum
bestiality is wrong.
Hopefully Ireland decides to tell the EU to go to hell and bail along with Britain and soon-to-be Catalan.
Hopefully governments get smart about this, and start insisting that any company that does business within their borders pays their tax rate. I'm all for these companies being able to deduct taxes paid elsewhere from their taxes due, but any company that does business in the US should pay the US tax rate. If they owe 15%, they should pay 15% to somebody.
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
A little bit like UK and the unelected prime minister...
The socialist environment prevents passing the buck. This leads to prevention of "success" because that sort of success is based upon leveraging yourself up on other people's backs. Is that a bad thing to prevent?
Its time to FIRE the EU, and go elsewhere. Do NOT trade YOUR OWN GOVERNANCE for EU rulers. You'll Regret it.
The only way the EU can maintain control in Catalonia is to expose themselves as an authoritarian dictatorship.
Not "extra taxes", just the taxes Ireland should have charged in accordance with the treaties it had signed. Who would have guessed, a treaty where signatories have to respect what they sign upon... unheard of... Ireland (and Luxembourg) wouldn't be in this mess if it didn't try to cheat: they know quite well what the rules are when they signed it. If they were against it they simply shouldn't have ratified it, but they did so they are bound by them... you know, laws?
Pretty sure Britain didn't leave for "nothing".
Yes. And that means the companies were not paying their legally required taxes?
Yes, companies were not paying their legally required taxes.
Who decides what companies should pay within a sovereign nation? Is it the nation, or the EU?
The nation. The nation made a decision to agree to certain terms when it joined the economic union known as the European Union. Those terms are binding on the nation as long as they're part of that union. Not enforcing those terms is the sovereign equivalent of signing up for a cell phone contract, then telling the cell phone company you're only going to pay 30% of the bill each month, because it's a better deal for you.
And if there is an issue - does it mean the company didn't pay its legally required taxes, or that the nation violated some trade agreement it had?
Both. The company didn't pay its legally required taxes and the nation that is letting it is violating a trade agreement by doing so.
Really, this isn't hard. If you believe in the rule of law at all, then you must also believe that sovereign nations are subject to it, or treaties are totally meaningless, always. Which is certainly an option, if you want the world at each other's throats on a constant basis. Those of us who prefer peace and quiet would like to see treaties honored.
And Apple can pay their fucking taxes. I have to. So do they.
Corporation tax in Ireland is 12.5%. Apple gets a sweetheart deal from the Irish government and pays a lot less than 12.5%. Sweetheart deals like this are banned in the EU to prevent a race to the bottom by other small states. It's OK under EU rules for them to charge less than 12.5% but that has to be the rate for all corporation tax payers in Ireland, not just Apple and other big multinationals with similar deals.
It's something Ireland agreed to on accession to the EU. If they want to leave the EU and play these sorts of games, no problem but Apple relies on Ireland's EU membership to be able to shuffle their profits from all the other EU nations frictionlessly through their Irish offices and pay less tax than anywhere else. Outside the EU Ireland is no further use as a cheap-tax-rate haven for Apple et al.
It's not Apple at fault here, it's the notoriously corrupt Irish government that has traditionally played fast and loose with such financial rules in many other circumstances. The EU has had enough. If Ireland don't collect the taxes due from Apple I'd expect various EU grants and subsidies to be cut back pro rata on the basis that the Irish government had the chance to raise those revenues properly themselves by charging the correct rate of tax in the first place.
Yes, it's true! The fascist regime in place in the US since the 1980s only makes examples of foreign companies.
American companies are free to rape American citizens and the world without any repercussions.
Make America Great Again!
I'm constantly amazed how all new slashdot users are far right nazi trump supporting fascist white trash. Probably why readership on /. has dwindled from 500-1000 posts per article to 50-80 posts / article.
Seig heil!
Hmmm... Did Ireland or Luxembourg say Amazon wasn't paying its taxes? Seems to me that Amazon had an IRISH or LUXEMBOURGIAN subsidiary, and those nations were fine with what was being paid. But the bureaucrats in Brussels didn't like it... IF there is an issue, it's between Ireland and Luxembourg and the EU - not the company. Brussels just wants the cash, that's all.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Another one smoked by facts; hence one more back to the Nazi chant.
BTW, unlike Tesla, autonomous driving, etc., one thing Europe invented was...Nazis. Just say'in!
For mine, we should simply call Ireland what it is.
A tax haven. A parasite feeding off the rest of the world.
Ireland has had a blinkered, cowed, short-sighted policy for the past 30 years.
Advertise itself as a tax haven, with an educated but cheap english speaking workforce.
It basically, pimped its own people.
As a result, there are investors, but there are no local champions,
and profits are not retained.
It is basically the policy of a craven colony.
What are the charges against Ireland? Does EU really have the power to sue a state for not collecting taxes? That would be funny since EU commission president Junker is an expert at that.
Yes, Europe did industrialize and experience unbridled capitalism first, you're right! Thankfully, they learned from their mistakes.
The far right did get a hold of Germany and we saw what they did with their immigrants and 'others'. Nazi-ism (far right fascism) is by far no way an invention unique to Europe. The US is marching to its fascist anti-immigrant racist leader as we speak, and damn proud of it.
Tesla you mean the company envisioned and started by a South African Canadian? Fascists all over the world love the US: your business pays little to no taxes, gets away with murder, and the worst you'll get is a talking down to in front of the Congress you've purchased. As a fascist, I too would move to the US, it's fantastic. You can build up unlimited amount of wealth in your family, socialize all costs and private all profits. It's a win-win.
You must either be paid to post or really smart, I can't tell which one yet..
America was great when the upper marginal tax rate was 92% from the 40s through the 60s/early 70s. The middle class existed then. Since then it's golden shower Reagenomics... open wide (wallets, anus, mouth), the fascists are coming.
Brussels doesn't get the cash, the cash actually goes to Ireland and Luxemburg. Brussels are trying to ensure that everyone isn't getting screwed over by the corrupt arrangements made by these two countries. If they want to make such deals with companies then they need to leave the EU (certainly and option) but then none of these companies would have any interest whatsoever in being in either of those countries as they are really using this as a tax haven to funnel money out of the rest of the EU which would no longer be possible once they left the EU.
If you've got a conscience, don't buy one. If you don't, buy one.
MAJOR facilities in Cork? who the fuck are you trying to kid, in 1980 it was 60 people. A local office is NOT a major facility. It wasn't till they became a true tax haven for apple that it expanded.
stupid me, here was I thinking the EU wasn't formed till 1957 or perhaps you are suggesting hitler had a 3rd coming post the mid 1950s? maybe a secret war that has been hidden in conspiracy?
I look forward to the end of the 4th Reich. Free trade is a great idea, but the notion that you have to employ an army of parasites to get it is ludicrous.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
they don't actually. EU was originally formed as the ECC in 1950's, Most of the broken international Tax laws were established between the 60's and 80's post WWII but prior to the easy mobility of companies in a digital age, Ireland used this as basically a marketing campaign "come to Ireland and we will help you hide your money for you". They are laws written for a bygone era that Ireland has been exploiting for a long long time and quite frankly most countries are pretty much fed up with it, especially as Ireland has needed financial bailouts to stay afloat all the while stealing from everyones pockets.
mostly true, though you could argue the EU is just the EEC on steroids and it replaced the EEC which was formed in 1957. part of the EU membership though was taxation rules around treatment of companies equally and no state-aid etc in exchange for free market access, so really Ireland has really been in breach of the EU agreement ever since the EU was formed, they try to hide their state-aid under various tax relief banners like discounts for local R&D etc but really it is just lipstick on the pig that is tax haven. gradually these loopholes are being shutdown and once they are all finally closed I would expect many of those companies that claim they aren't their for the tax haven benefits will mysteriously find other countries that they need to move too (also for completely non taxed related reasons).
Thanks for a better explanation than I gave!
"Tesla " is a knock off of a man who was vastly more intelligent than the person behind the company you are representing. And do not believe those cars have any less of a carbon footprint than ICE engines. Electricity in my town comes from coal and gas burners with solar subsidizing rolling blackouts from undersupply issues from lazy fatcats.
And autonomous? fucking hilarious. I think you are referring to Teslas "Auto Pilot" FEATURE, which is a self proclaimed driver assist feature because it is NOT truly autonomous without interactions, and is a misnomer to the general public.
I already said, "Delaware."
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Don't worry, the US as a trade pact to help you change that.
No the EU looked at the mandate by law tax in irland and what apple was paying. Thes numbers did not match becus irland had given apple a tax break.
And irland have agreed to not give companies unfair tax breaks when they joined the union.
Well if the sovergin union have made promises about let us say tax rules to join the EU. Then that nation needs to follow that contract if they wish to stay in the EU
we are talking about Ireland here. I think you should show more respect to their sexual preferences
Hello Vladimir, how goes?
Can apple be required to pay?
Assuming apple have paid the required tax according to Irelands deal (I think it was something like 7.5%?), they have paid the taxes that was required of them "to the best of their knowledge". As Ireland made the deal, does Ireland or the EU have the right to demand backpayment of taxes at a different rate from what apple was told?
Should a retailer charge a customer after a sale because the retailer only realised afterward that he was taking a loss?
Alteratively, can the tax office tell you later on that they told you the wrong amount of tax to pay in prior years, and demand back-payment?
Not saying apple didn't know what they were doing, just would like to know how it works and why. It seems to me that someone in the Irish government probebly screwed over the country for money, and most likely has moved on or retired, and in the meantime apple can get away with the excuse "I didn't know at the time".
Volkswagen is only outfit that has been levied billions in fines, had to recall millions of vehicles, and had major corporate figures criminally charged stemming from the emissions scandal.
Well, others had to recall large numbers of vehicles as well, but indeed only Volkswagen has had to pay fines so far. There are two reasons for that: the first is that VW were the only manufacturer stupid enough to openly admit and the second is that VW was the only company that sold a significant number of affected vehicles in the US, were these kind of cases go much faster, since they don't bother with due process and other things they consider a waste of time, especially when the target is a foreign company that doesn't employ many people in the US and hasn't bought many American politicians. But all of the investigations against car manufacturers (including Volkswagen) for cheating emissions in Europe are still ongoing (rule of law, due process, that kind of thing, no plea bargains) and chances are they either all have to pay hefty fines, or all of them get off with a stern warning if it turns out the engine protection loophole pans out.
What bigger corporate news has come out of Europe in past couple years?
Plenty of things: Bayer buying Monsanto, the car industry buying Here, Airbus launching the A350, the Siemens Transportation - Alstom merger, energy companies ofloading their fossil fuel power branches, the impeding consolidation in the steel industry, the succes of service startups like HelloFresh, Zalando and Spotify etc.
The Model S was invented. Invented by Tesla to be specific.
No it wasn't. It's a product. It was developed. There is no fundamentally new technology in it.
Model S represents first physical embodiment of the notion that an electric car could be fast, not look like rolling birth control, and have merits beyond environmental abstractions of the powertrain choice.
Everybody knew an electric car could be fast. It's simple physics. It was just not a very relevant property for the target audience of electric cars. Tesla may have surprised people by showing that even an electric car can be unreliable when you let Americans build it, though. I wish they would find a way to use Elon Musk's arrogance and smugness to power a vehicle. That would be revolutionary and useful.
See BMW i3 for European example of mainstream electric car.
Or the Volkswagen e-Golf, or the Renault Zoe. Perfectly fine cars, that both outsell the Tesla Model S at the moment.
No, they are not American. They follow Americans, in this case the suddenly-emerging trend of autonomous driving that American industry is spearheading.
There was no suddenly-emerging trend of autonomous driving in the 1980s and 1990s when Daimler-Benz developed the first self-driving car. In fact, they shelved the project when it was more or less finished because there was no interest from car buyers. And the American industry wasn't spearheading anything other than extremely crappy cars at the time.
In the current wave of enthusiasm for autonomous driving the majority of the actual technology comes from European firms and it seems likely that European brands will be the first to launch fully autonomous cars on the market.
Tesla wasn't invented anywhere (not an invention) and autonomous driving was invented in Europe. Check your facts.
Nazis may have been invented in Europe, but they would have never be able to grab the power without financial backing from the US.
Corporation tax in Ireland is 12.5%. Apple gets a sweetheart deal from the Irish government and pays a lot less than 12.5%. Sweetheart deals like this are banned in the EU to prevent a race to the bottom by other small states
You are right, but the reason is a different one. It's not fair to competitors when Apple gets a special deal others don't. That's bad for competition and ultimately, bad for consumers.
EU as a whole, and most member and quasi-member nations, believe in social welfare, not corporate welfare. The US is different in this regard. Americans are against social welfare, but very much in favor of corporate welfare, under the misguided belief that this will translate into jobs.
It doesn't of course. Less taxes means more profits but more profits doesn't lead to more jobs. But since Americans are against social welfare, they have a comparatively poor public education system, so it's hardly surprising that the average american voter can not understand much more than rudimentary economics. Just look at how much they confuse the concept of a government budget with that of their own personal budget. Utterly senseless.
You left out that if you lower the taxes which means more profits those profits get exported, instantly, to tax havens like Panama using creative bookkeeping methods where they further increase the estimated 29 trillion dollars kept in such tax havens. The US state of Kansas is a good example of this, they forged ahead with an experiment in massive tax cutting for the wealthy based on the notion that it would cause an increase in investment in the local economy and shrink government... it didn't. Rich people took the money they saved on taxes into out of state tax havens, state revenues fell off a cliff but since even the staunchest of conservatives did not want to make any cuts government did not shrink so they propped up the state of Kansas with borrowing. Republican Governor Sam Brownback is now watching his much lauded (by ultra conservatives) regimen of tax cuts being rolled back by, of all things, a moderate Republican-Democratic coalition which is now at war with Brownback trying to pass a veto proof income tax increase. Now try to imagine what kind of a raging dumpster fire of a fucking mess Brownback had to make of Kansas (or any American state for that matter) to motivate Republicans and Democrats to get together and raise taxes.
Unfortunately, it wasn't posted on usenet, so Godwin's law does not apply.
Godwin didn't mention Usenet, you Nazi moron.
ireland can require them to pay. That is why ireland is being dinged for not making apple pay. Did you read the summary or anything before you started this?
Well, we got less than nothing from it. No new cash for the NHS and no reduction in EU payments but now we have to hire government employees instead of using EU ones.
Britain is leaving the EU precisely so that the wealthy don't have to suffer the effects of the EU initiative to reclaim unpaid taxes. Plenty of other reasons and promises, many mutually incompatible, were give to people to encourage them to vote out. I'm actually now more worried about the fury of the people once they realise they have been conned and lied to, rather than the negative impact that leaving will have on the country.
Also, the EU is not run by an unelected group. A group _appointed_ by elected people is responsible for creating the initial wording of legislation, much like the bureaucracy in many democratic countries does. Another 'bogy man' thrown out by the section of the press owned by the tax-dodging rich.
They did pay their legally required taxes to Irelend. The EU decided that Ireland's sovereign tax rate wasn't high enough. It's big EU countries trying to dictate what Ireland should do. That should not be legal.
Time for an IREXIT!
Ireland joind the EEC along with the UK in 1974. It is at *THIS* point that they agreed to no state aid and it became possible to funnel profits from the rest of the EEC through Ireland. This is all *BEFORE* Apple existed as a corporate entity and well before 1980.
Declaring independence is an *AUTOMATIC* bail from the EU. They could apply to rejoin for sure, but as that requires the unanimous consent of the existing members the chances of that happening are *ZERO* as Spain would just veto it on the basis that they don't recognize Catalonia as a sovereign state.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars...but invented Tesla and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks.
I think the stereotypes you subscribe to aren't working.
Funny, what I remember most is a bunch of headlines coming out of Europe about a string of corporations being punished by the EU for abusive practices like using their dominant market position to stifle competition, price fixing and general anti-trust activities. The latest examples are Microsoft and Google which, incidentally, are still free to continue those abusive practices in the USA where the government sees nothing wrong with corporations abusing monopolies to screw the public. Still, these fines are often used by a certain species of US commentators to claim the EU preferentially victimises US corporations which is bullshit. Some other greedy corporations honoured by the EU with major fines include: Intel, Telefonica, Servier, Volvo, MAN, Volvo/Renault, Daimler, Iveco, DAF, Scania, Asahi, Pilkington, Saint-Gobain, Soliver, Sony, Qualcomm, Chunghwa, LG Electronics, Philips and Samsung SDI, Panasonic, Toshiba and Facebook to name a few examples. That list is not exactly dominated by US corporations. The EU seems to pretty evenhanded when it comes to handing out tough love. Oh... I doubt Apple will remain the only prominent name on the back-taxes to-do list for long.
and those nations were fine with what was being paid
Just like you're fine with buying a clearly stolen TV out of the back of a van? In many places you're non the less committing a crime.
The nations made illegal deals with specific corporations, and that's the problem here. Accomplices to crimes are punishable in nearly every jurisdiction on the planet. You can't pretend that Apple and Amazon are completely innocent in a deal created specifically for them knowingly in breach of rules that ensure that corporations are treated equally within the bloc.
I didn't kill him your honour. The assassin did. I only did a normal business transaction of paying money in exchange for services rendered!
You already do with the UK and Ireland to to other EU countries and vice versa. Hardly a loss from your example for these countries.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
The British crown didn't recognise the colonies' claim to independence. There had to be a war.
What about this?
"The US government has already told the Confederate staters that they will not recognise their claim of independence"
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
We're leaving the EU because that's the way we voted. My vote had nothing to do with "unpaid taxes".
My vote was based on the remainer's argument. There is certainty in the EU. So, I looked at the trends based on their argument and decided I preferred uncertainty instead.
EEC was brought in under the guise of it bringing prosperity, that's what I judged it under when it came time to vote.
The EC which has overriding powers and it's members are not under influence of democratic voting mechanisms by the people in the EU.
No, that's the EP, the EC can override the EP and even sets the topics that EP can discuss and vote on.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
that is fine wanting corporation to pay taxes, but you (Ireland) need to be open and tell tax rate in ADVANCE so corporation can decide will it incorporate in your country or some other with better deal, and not say "tax is $1 and than few years after say, you owe me additional $1 billion for those taxes, i decided to raise them retroactively, its also fine for Ireland to say "tax is now rising to 100 times" but not retroactively, because if corporation does not like new tax it can now move
it would be like if you wanted to buy new Samsung $10'000 OLED TV, but you didn't have money, than you seen one out of 100 stores in your city had special discount and TV was only $200, you go there and buy it, than when you went home and started using it store representative comes and tells you that there was some mistake and that Samsung wants them to charge you $ 20'000 for TV instead (retroactively) they d not want to do it but they are forced by Samsung, and you have to pay double what other stores were asking for same TV
changing taxes and laws is fine, as long as its not retroactive
Germany has been running an illegal (under EU rules) trade surplus for years right now.
When/If the EU fines them, then we can take the EU seriously.
Right now, it's just selectively applying its rule.
The EU is run by theCouncil of Europe which consists of the democratically elected governments of the 28 member states (being a democracy is a condition of entry).
The executive (called the European Commission) is appointed by the democratically elected governments of the 28 member states, much like the executive in the USA is appointed by the democratically elected president.
There is also a directly elected parliament but it doesn't have as much power as the US Congress or the British parliament.
In short, your statement is completely false.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Corporation tax in Ireland is 12.5%. Apple gets a sweetheart deal from the Irish government and pays a lot less than 12.5%. Sweetheart deals like this are banned in the EU to prevent a race to the bottom by other small states. It's OK under EU rules for them to charge less than 12.5% but that has to be the rate for all corporation tax payers in Ireland, not just Apple and other big multinationals with similar deals.
At least according to calculations from the EU that are so complicated or secret that the EU can't release them.
MAJOR facilities in Cork? who the fuck are you trying to kid, in 1980 it was 60 people.
Which made them one of the biggest employers in Cork at the time. A year later there already were 170.
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound in the current year?
It sounds like the 1860's!
I imagine this... "The Union has already told the Confederacy that they will not recognize their claim of independence. But sure, keep stirrin the pot, Mr. Davis-Lee-Slaveowner ." Sickening.
Then again, I also forgot that if you care about "dead white guys" that makes you a racist in 2017.
FTFY, you racist. Oh and wake me when the Union will let anyone else secede.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
The clue is in the last word of this sentence: scandal!
Scandal sells stories.
The biggest news of the last couple of years out of Europe, about a European company, that I can think of would be the sale of ARM* to a Japanese firm (SoftBank) for £24 billion (and then the subsequent sale of 25% of it to a Saudi backed Investment fund - although, tbf, that's no longer 'European' news). The cash involved, and to a lesser degree the implications, dwarf the numbers relating to the VW affair. That you were unable to bring it to mind when trying to think of news about European companies merely highlights my first point.
*If you need to ask who ARM is, or what they do ... try to imagine your current favourite smart phone without its processor.
There is a reason people like Trump and Farrage won.
Yeah, it's because most people are dumb as shit and believe the most blatant lies. Especially when you put them on the side of a bus.
"corporations should pay their fair share!" = more money for cronies
"Apple saved money on taxes through the Irish loophole" = more money for cronies
This is government policy. Now get with it ordinary peon and pay your taxes, those cronies won't enrich themselves!
Vote out the politicians that raise taxes on you.
Does not mean it doesn't happen. It is already not done to shout about profits anyway.
And if these things happen, laws change in favour of the people. e.g. when Renault in Brussels closed and several thousand workers where thrown out on the street, they where building a new factory in Spain with help from subsidies. Not only did they lose their subsidies, the law was changed in Belgium, so that you can't just say "we close" that easy. There have to be certain steps to be followed.
If you want to fire a certain percentage and/or certain amount of people at the same time, it will take around 6 months to do as you now need to inform people in advance and look for alternatives.
In general people in Europe are more interested in time than in money. Many people will work 4/5 times as they then have more time to spend with friends and family. They could work 5/5 and buy a new car sooner and a new phone and a larger tv and ... but why?
Of the 10 direct co-workers I have 7 do 4/5 work. And yes, that means living in a smaller house than what is standard in the US. And yes, exceptions exist on both sides.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
As compared to neo-liberalism, which punishes everyone equally (except for the top 0.01%, but that gets ignored as a rounding error) and is based on greed.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Thank you! I was just thinking alongst the same line.
Some guy in a store sells brand-new iPhone 8 at €10/phone. You pay what the man wanted. Surely you are not stealing? Everything is above board, no? Everybody happy, right? You (and your army of highly trained lawyers leading you to the store) had no idea about the real cost of an iPhone 8, right?
The cops crash the store, you are still inside with a iPhone 8 in your hand and the store says "that'll be €899, please". How will you justify that it is your iPhone 8 and that you paid a fair price for it and the €899 is just stealing ferom you!!
Yes, 1994, the year that the EU helped Zombie Hitler come into power.
Politicians love their "closing loopholes" rhetoric. "Closing loopholes" means offering tax cuts to the elites, closing a few really egregious loopholes so you look like you've accomplished what you've said you will, and crafting the next round of tax loopholes your elites will use to dodge taxes for the next decade.
Eh, no. No chance in hell. The vote wasn't recognized by anyone, there are known suspect activities surrounding the voting and there were no trusted independent observers. A lot of people have said they would have voted if it was a valid vote rather than some PR activity, this including people that want an independent state and those that want to be part of Spain. So the vote is a joke.
But even if the vote would be valid and recognized as such by the world they would not accept shit before Catalonia had broken free and functioning as a state. Well North Korea could perhaps do that in order to show support for those that fight against Spanish oppression or some shit like that, but that's just trolling or delusional ranting.
Just like you're fine with buying a clearly stolen TV out of the back of a van? In many places you're non the less committing a crime.
It's more like a retailer selling the TV for less than the MSRP after agreeing not to (or offering it for sale before the "DO NOT SELL BEFORE" date or violating any number of other agreements retailers make, and break, with manufacturers and distributors all the time). Can you imagine a Best Buy sales drone showing up at your door asking for another $100 because you got a better deal than the manufacturer wanted?
Your weed is even better than mine!
This makes no sense. A more appropriate analogy would be that the store was selling 100% legally acquired iPhone 8s at wholesale prices in violation of their sales agreement with Apple. Then Apple sends some goons over to get the store to shake you down for more money after you left the store with your new iPhone 8. You are then free to tell them to pound sand because you were not a party to the sales agreement and your transaction with the store is complete. The store is the party that violated the agreement and should bear full responsibility.
The US and the EU are thieves such that the former allow their victims to keep some of their money.
When the EU thieves see money in the pockets of anyone they run around like the keystone cops. "We've never seen this before! TAKE IT! TAKE IT!!"
The biggest news of the last couple of years out of Europe, about a European company, that I can think of would be the sale of ARM* to a Japanese firm (SoftBank) for £24 billion (and then the subsequent sale of 25% of it to a Saudi backed Investment fund - although, tbf, that's no longer 'European' news). The cash involved, and to a lesser degree the implications, dwarf the numbers relating to the VW affair.
First off, Volkswagen's current liability scandal estimate is ~$30 billion, and that number seems to grow every quarter - with many civil actions remaining to be settled still. I wager the Volkswagen cost will catch up to and surpass the costs to purchase ARM by this time next year.
Also, as you alluded, ARM is British - distinct from Europe these days. And what is ARM, in the actual context of Europe or the UK? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas. It grosses "only" a billion pounds a year, on patent royalties and little else. Their stuff is less what they make and more a spec, like an 802.11 standard one licenses from a proverbial IEEE instead of certifies it.
So, if that's the best example other than Volkswagen you can think of - a not European but British midcap that essentially makes nothing on its own, well, I rest my case.
The EU doesn't levy any taxes. Fail.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Spain can only veto so long ... ...
E.g. until they want something from the EU and they get vetoed back
Sooner or later Catalonia will be a full EU member. ... or not to join if they don't desire so.
Sooner or later Spain will be reduced to a core, called Spain and a few more regions to join the EU
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
No you don't.
An ID card is enough.
As UK has no ID cards, obviously they require a passport to visit other EU states.
I don't require a passport to visit the UK.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Go back to chinky land. You're incredibly stupid.
Admission of new countries requires unanimity. Many other things don't..
Also, assuming Spain is desperate for something which can be vetoed that could only be exercised by an existing member. Why would they? What the fuck do you think France or Italy could gain by doing so?
I sometimes wonder if you could even point to Europe on a map.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
But we can send all the Polacks and Roma home. We'll bring Indians in instead, that'll stick it to the Frogs and Krauts!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
They'd do it while what? While you were sleeping? While Rome burns? While I was going over the far-famed Kerry mountains?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
a not European but British midcap
How can something possibly be British without being European?
that essentially makes nothing on its own
The same could be said for 99% of the 'tech' industry.
Only for domestic UK flights.
Actually driving licenses are classifed as ID cards.
What you have is an identity document that is classified as a passport, it follows the ePassport standard, which is why it can be used as a passport. It is not unlike the UK's BRP cards or Gibraltar's Identity Document. You cannot come to the UK on just an "ID card", it needs to double as a passport. So, you can't use things like a driving license, like you can in the schengen area, you can't use a wojewodztwa, like you can in the schengen area, you can't use a voting card, like you can in the schengen area etc.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
no it isn't similar to that at all as in that case the consumer has no awareness or any reasonable expectation of awareness that the store has signed a contract not to sell at that price or date. Apple and Amazon would be intricately aware of the tax laws and do everything in their power to pay as little as possible, mostly staying in the grey zone where the practises are questionable but arguable as legal, this is an example where they have edged just a little over that grey zone.
Your nitpicking does not help you, as you miss the point: ... and north Africa and plenty of other places: so I don't need a passport.
Actually driving licenses are classifed as ID cards.
In the UK. A UK drving license is not an ID card in Germany or France. Hence a UK citizen needs a passport.
My ID card is valid in the UK
You cannot come to the UK on just an "ID card", it needs to double as a passport. ... or how ever you want to translate it. It is not a passport. Most places in Europe have "simple ID cards" and passports are basically only needed for countries where you need a visa.
Google "Personalausweis", that is an ID card
My dictionary here translates "Ausweis" to "ID card", perhaps yo have a better translation :D
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Corporation tax in Ireland is 12.5%.
100% correct (for trading income).
Apple gets a sweetheart deal from the Irish government and pays a lot less than 12.5%.
100% false. Apple pays 12.5% on its taxable income.
Please provide us with full details of this non-existent fairytale sweetheart deal you are privy to. What is the tax-rate in this alternate universe?
Apple has a sweetheart deal that limits its taxable income to a small part of what it would have been without the sweetheart deal.
It is sufficient for a flight from France to Germany, I would know. I've done it. All the documents I've mentioned above, I've used in the Schengen area on flights that are not valid for flights to the UK.
Your card doubles as a passport because it's using the ePassport standard. There are non-EU countries that accept these just as passports.
Personalausweis follows the ePassport standard. They even use the same encryption certificates on the RFID chip as the regular German passports.
A "simple ID card" wouldn't follow ePassport standards, like the wojewodztwa, UK driving license, voting card etc.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
First off, Volkswagen's current liability scandal estimate is ~$30 billion, and that number seems to grow every quarter
Well, that I didn't know, so thanks. I haven't actually paid that much attention to the ongoing fallout - they did wrong; they got caught; they got, financially, punitively punished; the executives essentially got away with it. Not worth worrying about further.
Also, as you alluded, ARM is British - distinct from Europe these days.
Despite what you might have heard, or what you might believe, the UK is still part of Europe, and still part of the European Union. It will remain part of the EU for at least another 18(ish) months.
And what is ARM, in the actual context of Europe or the UK? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas.
Given that the original article is about Apple, and your comment is from from the perspective of "us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans" let's turn this nugget around shall we? And what is Apple in the actual context of Europe or the US? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas.
Although the design and engineering parts aren't, in the case of either ARM (Cambridge, UK) or Apple (CA, USA). But please don't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric.
So what you're saying is that the same rules don't apply to individuals because of ignorance? And come on, you know what the release date and MSRP are and you know why everyone goes along with them, it's no big mystery. Either a third party can be held to the terms of an agreement they were not a party to or they can't, there really isn't any middle ground here. It shouldn't matter whether that third party is a multinational corporation or an individual, the same rules should apply to everyone. Isn't that the common argument when companies get special treatment over individuals?
Nope. A sales contract is a private agreement between Apple and the store. A treaty is binding law. Your analogy would work better if there was a law that forbade selling below recommended retail price, not a sales agreement.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Given that the original article is about Apple, and your comment is from from the perspective of "us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans" let's turn this nugget around shall we? And what is Apple in the actual context of Europe or the US? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas.
The comparison is silly and facile. Apple's new HQ in Silicon Valley is bigger than probably all ARM's facilities ever put together. They make Mac Pros in America. The Samsung-sourced silicon for Apple iPhones is made in Austin, Texas. The back of every Apple widget says 'Designed in California' for a reason. Apple has more cash and cash equivalents right now than all the liquidity in the entire economy of the United Kingdom.
And, ironically, the probably most influential Brit in modern mainstream technology is named Jony Ive and he works for...Apple.
You must have a really cool shovel, because you keep using it to dig an ever deeper rhetorical hole.
Wrong again. The EU is not asking any money from Apple. It's rather forcing Ireland to exact a fair taxation from Apple (tax money that then will stay in Ireland, mind you).
Ireland doesn't want to do that as they know low taxation is the only reason corporations place their EU presence there. With harmonized EU taxation, corporations would move where there's better infrastructure.
Old Personalausweise don't have RFID. Nor did my last Passport have. Got a new one in May. However depending on age: they are still valid.
You are nitpicking and have no clue.
Half of the countries have besides a "passport" also a national "mini passport" We call it "Personalausweis". An "ID Card".
With such an id card you can travel all over Schengen and everywhere the other country agrees to, e.g. as a German: Tunesia, Marocco, Switzerland etc. But you e.g. can not travel to Japan or Thailand.
The UK has no such "id card" hence they need a passport to enter the rest of the EU.
So: we don't need a passport. And we don't need a passport to enter the UK. Because our mini passport/id card is enough.
A "simple ID card" wouldn't follow ePassport standards, like the wojewodztwa, UK driving license, voting card etc. This are not ID cards. I already told you: you have no proper translation for "Personalausweis!".
The UK people need a passport to travel in other areas of the EU: because they have no "proper" ID card. E.g. no equivalent of our Personalausweis.
Again: I don't need a passport to go to the UK. At lest not until BREXIT.
And: my driving license is not an ID card, not in Germany, and no where in the EU.
And all this has nothing to do with ePassport standards.
So: no one from any Schengen country needs a passport to enter the UK. And probably nearly no one from other EU countries.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
What has "gain" to do with it?
People want their freedom. Probably they want to (re)join the EU.
When the richest part of Spain drops from the EU because it gets independent, why would the EU not want it back?
Same for the next regions to drop ...
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Reading problems or simply a week mind?
"While" obviously meant to be "why" ...
How can one be so dumb?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Well no, in the past it would have just the older passport standards which was MRZ. But, standards move on.
Again, I did not have problem with the IDs I mentioned on flights within the Schengen area.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
AssFux (lol) tell us about your NDA lie and your dns fuckups apk tore you up on please hahahaha https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11188265&cid=55322595/
Well,
you claimed I need a passport to enter the UK.
I don't. I pointed out: the UK citizens usually have no passport or lower level "Personalausweis" equivalent.
Which ID is enough for you I don't know. But I doubt a UK citizen can travel with a driving license only to Switzerland. Hence: he needs a passport. I don't.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Indeed.
And I pointed out that these double as a passport and even treated as such by some non-EU countries. They're not merely an ID card.
I pointed out that IDs which don't double as a passport because they don't follow the current ePassport standards etc. are valid in the Schengen area, but are not valid for travel to the UK.
A UK citizen cannot travel to the Schengen area on the IDs I mentioned, but they can travel within the Schengen area on flights etc. with the IDs I mentioned.
To be more specific, a UK EEA driving license is sufficient (which practically everyone who has a driving license has). But only from the Schengen area, not the UK - The UK is not part of the Schengen area.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
that isn't an even remotely valid comparison, firstly you are talking about legal requirements to pay owed tax, as a company you don't get to go tell them to pound sand regardless of the situation. Secondly unlike the consumer in your example Apple etc are complicit in making these arrangement to bypass their legal requirements, they are fully aware of their actions and the actions were intended to avoid paying their legally required share of tax, and they would have been in the negotiation process with the Ireland government on how to show the tax concessions in the most vague way in the hope of not triggering legal repercussions.
neither MSRP or release dates are laws signed into being by treaty arrangements between governments.
AssFux tell us about your NDA lie and your dns fuckups apk tore ya up on please hahaha URL:https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=11188265&cid=55322595/
The comparison is silly and facile. Apple's new HQ in Silicon Valley is bigger than probably all ARM's facilities ever put together. They make Mac Pros in America.
No they don't. Foxconn makes them for Apple in America. And the other 99.9% of Apple's products are made in China, also by contract manufacturers. Apple doesn't actually make anything, except perhaps some prototypes.
the probably most influential Brit in modern mainstream technology is named Jony Ive and he works for...Apple.
Jonathan Ive is a designer. I'm not aware of him ever being involved in any technology. He has designed quite a few enclosers for devices containing some technology though, but I wouldn't really put that under 'influential'.
You must have a really cool shovel, because you keep using it to dig an ever deeper rhetorical hole.
You don't think that's a bit rich coming from you after making so many outright wrong claims?