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Tesla Posts Biggest Quarterly Loss, Slashes Production of Model X and Model S (yahoo.com)
Tesla has reported the largest quarterly loss in its history, and said it was cutting production of its Model S and Model X vehicles. Here are the key third-quarter numbers with expectations via Bloomberg: Adjusted loss per share: -$2.92 (-$2.23 expected); Revenue: $2.98 billion ($2.39 billion expected); Free cash flow: -$1.4 billion (-$1.2 billion (expected). Yahoo News reports: The company said it plans to produce 10% fewer units of its Model S and Model X models in the fourth quarter and reallocate resources to the Model 3, its newest. Tesla expects to hit a Model 3 production rate of 5,000 vehicles per week by late Q1 2018. "While we continue to make significant progress each week in fixing Model 3 bottlenecks, the nature of manufacturing challenges during a ramp such as this makes it difficult to predict exactly how long it will take for all bottlenecks to be cleared or when new ones will appear," Tesla said in its statement. Tesla said in October that it produced only 260 vehicles, well below its target of 1,500. CEO Elon Musk said the Model 3 was "deep in production hell."
Idiots will keep giving him money...
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
As Mark Twain said, it is difficult to make predictions, particularly about the future.
Their junk bond offering of just 3 months ago is now trading at 95 cents on the dollar, effectively wiping out their yield. The only way Tesla is going to get the cash to keep going is a massively diluting equity raise.
Longs, get out while you can.
Ok, So who unplugged the reality distortion field? Unicorns are falling from the sky and moonbeams can hardly be seen emanating form the Tesla factories.
Is anyone surprised? I'm not. After all, when production numbers were low, what did Musk do? He started firing people in mass. I guess he's the only one left piecing parts of the Model 3 together while he isn't sleeping. Not bad, though. He can put 8 or 9 together a day.
I do have to wonder, though, what are they spending all of that money on?
In Australia at least the Model S is over $AU 112,000 the Model 3 is not really available until 2019 at around $AU40,000. So there's that. I am kind of surprised that the main players are not pushing up production e.g. Ford Electric etc because I thought that Tesla gave away most of their patents.
I hope it ramps back up soon! So many pessimists in this crowd, when Elon is our best shot at an EV future.
Be the first is to lead the market, which requires huge investment, is risky, but can lead to lots of cash in the bank.
The second is to follow the leader, making products that fit the newly exposed demand - not cutting edge, but fit for purpose at a reasonable cost with reduced risk.
Add into the mix that cars are notoriously hard to get right (Tesla reportedly has lots of niggles that established car manufacturers have already solved) and now that vehicles like Volvo's Polestar and the ilk are on the horizon, from a brand reputed for reliability (albeit manufactured in China), and that Germany are building their own battery gigafactory -
Musk should be worried. The only way he'll make money is cashing in on that first wave, and it's already being spread out.
biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
Given that you are happy with the Model S, why would you want to exchange it for the smaller, more primitive Model 3?
The ego on this clown, Musk, will be his undoing. He's no Steve Jobs, Henrik Fisker or John DeLorean. If it weren't for government subsidies and support Tesla, SpaceX and First Solar would be out of business.
...when government subsidy is our best shot at an EV future.
Perhaps his business model should stop depending on free tax payer money.
The company said it plans to produce 10% fewer units of its Model S and Model X models in the fourth quarter
Is it just me or does that sound like a small reduction, not really qualifying as "slashes production" at all?
Shouldn't there be a journalistic rule for when something qualifies as slashing, say maybe over 50%?
Lets not get too melodramatic with the headlines.
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
In 2018 we still won't have produced all the cars we sold in 2016.
Buy a car today! You might get delivery by the end of the decade!
(but i wouldn't bet on it)
Period.
Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
And the Model X. The LOWEST rated car for reliability.
Yours,
Consumers Report
As opposed to the rest of the automotive industry, and the coal industry, neither of which ever get any sort of government subsidy or tax breaks ever.
Oh wait, they actually get them all the f*&^ing time.
Sure, making so-called high-tech cars is not super easy, it's really hard to make any money selling cars when you cannot produce enough.
Also, since when are Tesla's cars "high tech". They are just reliability-riddled electric cars with fancy computers. More technology has been developed for the "run-of-the-mill" cars made by companies like Ford and Toyota than Tesla has. That tech, though, is just unappreciated, overlooked, and made to look easy by consummate automotive professionals that know what they are doing.
Come on Rei and and other dumbass musketeers, where’s you’re messiah now?
Musk is an arrogant prick, has no clue what it takes to do mass production successfully, thinks his own genius is good enough. Hence, "production hell"
You're right, they should've said Tesla was decimating production levels, not slashing.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Kock bros are asking that you clean your mouth when you move from one to the other.
Also, they are now willing to buy you a helmet so that you keep from hitting your head against the bed or wall.
It is obvious that you now have brain damage
Isn't there like year long waiting lists for some of these cars? Wouldn't it be better to keep production as it is, get those backlogged orders out the door and then ramp down production? I'm guessing there will be some pretty pissed customers if they are still on waiting lists for their cars.
https://dailykanban.com/2017/1...
Production Hell? How about Tesla as a business-to-business customer-from Hell.
The cost to make a Model S is around $30,000 and falling.
Electric cars are much simpler to make and maintain than ICE cars. This is also true for the Leaf and Volt.
If the range doubles (again) there will be a huge market for these cars.
1) After their ridiculous stock valuation drops to a reasonable amount, they get scooped up by a real automaker as a premium badge.
2) They remain a niche premium car maker.
3) They become a battery company.
They don't have the infrastructure to compete on a world wide scale with the big automakers.
As soon as electrics are well accepted by the public and hit critical mass, the big automakers are going to destroy Tesla.. because unlike Tesla they can actually build cars. Lots of them. They haven't been doing nothing and being disrupted by Tesla. They've been waiting until it makes sense economically.
It's that simple to forget when you have multiple /. accounts.
https://imgflip.com/i/vm4t4
So, I guess they aren't idiots after all.
Show me the production line and why they think they can produce 1500 cars?
The established auto makers poison pilled him by raising union interest. Which is unreasonable given that they aren't producing.
What exactly is so hard about making that many cars? The whole deal with electric cars is that they are actually simpler to make than gasoline cars... fewer parts.
I think his only choice is to move to Latin America and invest in robotic factories. Keep the American factory open as proof that we Americans are retarded and lazy.
What is a Bord?
It's when a bunch of top level managers get together only to end up assimilated into the collective. A Borg-board, or Bord.
Thankfully the lack of mental power means that even with a collective mind there's not enough mental capacity for the super-organism to live long. If you find yourself attacked by a Bord then give it a logic puzzle that will overwhelm it. Most any shampoo bottle will do. The organism will get stuck in a "Lather. Rinse. Repeat." loop and stop the attack. This will also speed it's inevitable death as it starves from a lack of knowing when to stop for food.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
... guess Elon knew the situation and was cutting staff/production
Where Tesla went wrong is making a niche vehicle and not having a strong demand for it. The other car makers can easily build a niche vehicle and never think twice. Even if they lose money, they make it up on popular models with great margins like pickups. The other negative for Tesla was how it sold cars and why it never really ran a great marketing campaign. The only people ever interested in Tesla was wealthy people with disposable cash and a curiosity for technology. Even the model 3 is not cheap and for many still a second or third car because of its limitations. Not sure Tesla has ever been designing a car for the masses.
That said, detailed videos of the model 3 are appearing and it's still a stylish, well designed, technologically advanced vehicle. After tens of thousands of cars have rolled off the production line and their owners have beta tested the bugs out it, I think it will become a classic.
Again,
Any rich idiot can make anything "work" by just throwing money at the problem.
For a while.
But making profit is a different matter entirely. In fact, that only comes about if you don't throw money around and give products away at or below cost.
Sure, you can say "R&D", "investment", etc. So long as that's not the ENTIRE business (or so long as it is your entire business and is inherently profitable). Ford do ten times more R&D than Tesla ever could, they just don't throw their money on things they'd "like" rather than things they think could be feasible.
Musk throws his money at the problem, utilises pretty normal methods and products to achieve it (Tesla batteries are standard lithium cells, Tesla cars use off the shelf motors and components with a bit of software, etc.), but can never sell it at a profit. Even SpaceX - with governments throwing money at it - can't really make a profit which is sustainable in the long-term. One launch failure takes them into immediate loss for a long time. There's a reason that NASA never tried to land and re-use rockets (more hassle than it's worth) and why SpaceX are now following suit.
Sure... you can get some industry movement. But I don't see Ford, BMW, etc. rushing to compete with Tesla. They've used him as a guinea pig so they don't have to waste their own R&D money and found out that - actually - making a profitable electric car is hard (which they already knew) and that sales will never justify it (Tesla - despite the big words - own precisely NOTHING of the car market).
As time goes by, short of some amazing miraculous invention, a unique selling point, something that no-one else has that people want and will pay through the nose for, some technology, some patent (which Musk doesn't have and/or is giving away), Tesla and the other ventures will all start to run out of money, either through Musk's boredom or because they just get overrun by the incumbent manufacturers.
Sales are easy. When you're selling at or below cost.
Profits, however, are another matter entirely.
Musk doesn't make profit. He is, therefore, not that good at business even if he's rich.
Neat designers, but totally inept in execution. Cars are screwed together for over a century in mass production and they cannot figure it out? Totally pathetic!
6 months from now, we'll be talking about how they resolved the Gigafactory battery production kinks caused by vendors who under-delivered and Model 3s flying off the assembly line.
Every business like this has its highs and lows.
Greed is the root of all evil.
Sometimes I wish he would drop some of his programs and concentrate on cars. I think it would be a big loss to humanity if the company sank. There's always room for improvement on the highway.
Battery powered cars aren't the future. Hydrogen combustion engines, and if made safe nuclear cars. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/...
Yeah, more leftist BS. Oil is one of the highest tax-generators, at least in Europe. We (Germans) pay something like 1.20 Euros per liter, of which 70 cents is TAX.
Petrol and Diesel are actually MAINSTAYS of taxation in many European countries, because of rampant tax dodging and massive socialist policies (which have dozens of millions on Social Security programs).
German carmakers are really, really, really slow to move into battery production. Daimler had a facility but then decided to quit it again for "cost" reasons.
All German car executives lament about cost and capital requirements. So far no real coordinated action to produce batteries and double-no action to make cells.
It is important to note that some of the biggest shareholders of German car companies are the Oil Arabs.
Sometimes you need what the Vatican called a "Devil's advocate" when considering whether to venerate person as a saint.
Heaven knows that the late Christopher Hitchens was "one step above a stalker" of Anjezë Bojaxhiu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....
On the other hand, Mother Teresa became an object of unquestioning cult veneration while living and after her passing. Her personal sacrifice, her willingness to work with the sickest of the sick among the poorest of the poor, what saintliness. "Mother Teresa" becomes a throw-away line in a Sunday sermon.
Maybe, just maybe, this saintly lady had her own obsessions. She was running a hospice, after all, but maybe her practice could have made better use of pain-relief medication rather than having end-stage cancer patients in agony, telling them that their suffering is a virtuous imitation of Christ?
So why do I "believe" the godless Mr. Hitchens instead of Catholic Christian believers regarding Mother Teresa? Maybe I have heard many accounts as well as experienced for myself where belief becomes an ideology not properly tempered by common sense? Don't tell that patient that their indescribable pain is making them go to Heaven, give them some morphine, please! Yes, Mr. Hitchens may have been crazy to doubt Mother Teresa's goodness, but there is that trope that crazy people sometimes utter truths, not just that, warnings one ought to heed.
So what is so wrong about "making her a saint." For all of Hitch's knocks, Mother Teresa is in Heaven for all I am able to know and for all I am permitted to judge. On the other hand, the rush-to-sainthood on her, in light of suppressing her human frailties, weakens the moral authority of the Vatican with respect to its role in steering others towards becoming unheralded saints. I am told the Vatican cut corners in this process (like Elon getting his Model 3 line running?) by leaving out the Devil's advocate.
OK, I have played out the analogy of Missionaries of Charities to a car, but one can get the idea. Father Elon is shepherding us towards our de-carbonized transportation Future, but there is an Amen Corner of supporters who cannot admit to any of his shortcomings. Do you think that the Niedermeyers (and Hitchens) are doing a service in that their absence, there will be no questioning taking place?
Apple has a USP (Unique Sales Proposition) which is their own OS, their own programming languages, their own more stylish and more ergonomic technology.
Samsung is just one of hundreds of Users Of Google Technology.
That is why Apple is highly profitable and the Android folks are mostly struggling for a profit.
Roman decimation comes to mind. Musk is another stack ranker. I Won't work for someone who plays draw poker with employees.
First and foremost, Musk is worth 20 billion dollars, more or less. Tesla ain't going anywhere. Along with SpaceX, Tesla is his child and he says he's never giving it up. He can float the company for years even if he sells nothing. And he will sell.
The Model 3 (E, let's be real) is the most sought after car on the planet right now. There are problems somewhere in the manufacturing process. Rumor has it that the batteries are being hand-assembled. This is not a problem: they will automate it after it shakes down. Making things is hard.
The customer base is going no where, the admirers admire Tesla even more than they did yesterday. The problem is he had to take Tesla public to raise funds, and now the sharks are circling, wanting power, wanting to buy up shares, wanting to eat the company, sowing discord and BS. SpaceX, I hope, never goes public and keeps on doing the impossible with Wall Street having no say in it.
Eventually, within a few years, the assembly line will be automated, the batteries will be 30% cheaper, and may be even those new Toshiba SCiB 2s that Toshiba claims they'll have ready and will eliminate the faults and give three times the range. I heard - and I can't know this - that the idea is to drive the price of the Model 3 down to something like 22,000 dollars. Perfectly possible. At that point, I hope the other companies can keep up, or Tesla wins this race for good.
Someone up above says that Nissan is doing as well in the EV business as Tesla. In 4 years I've put 29K miles on my LEAF and I commute in it nearly every day. It's a fine car, but it's still something made by the old-guard car manufacturers. It's controls were slow and dated when I bought in 3 years ago (they are all effectively unchanged since originally designed in 2010). The radio/nav is terrible. Remote access to it is so unreliable Nissan decided to never charge for it (not to mention that the 3G module drains the 12V battery because it gets "stuck"). Thankfully mine is not affected, but Nissan has had some terrible battery issues (both the first 24kWh battery in the 2011/2012 and the first 30kWh battery in the 2016 models have serious high deterioration rates). This says to be very wary of the 40kWh battery coming in the 2018 model.
The LEAF just wanes in comparison to my Model S. In 7 months I've put 13K miles on the S (almost all highway miles on trips trips of 200-600 miles on-way). There's no surprise since the S costs almost 3x the LEAF: it should be better. But the S is a marvel. The tech level in the car is amazing, and the OTA updates of the interface software mean that things get fixed or improved.
As an aside, I think the S is too big a car for my tastes, but I didn't want to wait any longer for a long-range EV. I still have a 3 reservation (to replace the LEAF), but I may cancel it and just keep the LEAF. Also, my S had a minor issue with the driver's door panel that I needed to bring it in to service for 3 times to get fixed correctly. But hey, when I got the LEAF, it had a issue with the heater leaking that had it sitting at the dealer for almost a month while they waited for parts. This things happen.
He grew his businesses (VW, Audi, Porsche) on the teat of the government of Adolf Hitler. Designing the People's Car, a heavy battletank, gettting a factory built by the government among many other endeavours.
Musk is doing nicely as compared to Porsche. He can always bid for a Multi billion dollar contract as part of some war...
It's a shame Tesla's build quality is so appalling.
For a given period's definition of "decimating".
I worked at a car factory during a new model launch. It took 6 months to go from 120 cars a day to 1000 cars a day. Every part in the car had to be 200% inspected and if problems arose it would have to be fixed before another car was made.
I thought 'decimating' historically meant reducing by a factor of ten (i.e., 90%)? I could be wrong about that. I do agree that a 10% reduction is pretty significant at a time when they are supposed to be ramping everything up.
It's a shame Tesla's build quality is so appalling.
I don't find that at all. Like I said, mine had a minor issue with the door panel that (IMHO) took too many times for them to fix, but they did eventually fix it. And the overall build quality is excellent.
For instance, my LEAF has a misaligned hood that Nissan couldn't fix after several attempts. Or our CR/V that had cosmetic issues when we got it.
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm trying to talk from personal experience with their real products here. That gets in the way of all the AC with the negative postings based upon hot air and no experience. Enjoy shorting!
You may have been exceptionally lucky with your Tesla, but there is no denying that they have serious quality issues.
nah, you're a dipshit
We could all live in a cave eating cornflakes and some roots.
Instead we demand high fancy houses built of concrete, advanced chemicals with an oil guzzling heating. We spend enormous sums for automatic carriages moving our lazy asses from and to a comfortable place to work.
Then we buy a $700 Apple phone instead of just using that $20 bare-bone phone which would suffice to do the business we need to do.
To top that off, we dont enjoy the local woods then and now; instead we demand a super expensive brittle aluminum pipe to carry us 2000 miles over the air to a crowded beach. Where we demand to intoxicate ourselves with exotic breweries instead of our local grown root-berry-beer.
See how we are decadent and all the business of Apple and Boeing and Caterpillar is going to implode soon ?
Originally it was a very severe punishment for very disappointing Roman legions. Every tenth man would be executed, so a 10% reduction.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Sure they lose money on every vehicle, but they make it up on volume.
Right, good thing that loan was only paid back almost 5 years ago...
What does that loan have to do with the billions of subsidies they received?
Cool. I mean, not so cool if you were a member of an underperforming Roman legion... But that is a really interesting factoid. Thanks for sharing.
You're right, they should've said Tesla was decimating production levels, not slashing.
Now that would simply be hilarious to see. 9 quivering cars slowly surround the unlucky car, and then beat it to death with their tire chains. That'll scare 'em straight...
Check why startups condense in America? http://www.paulgraham.com/amer...
Casteism
All this sounds bad, but you know what, once the production issues are sorted, we will finally have a mass production of cars that don't use gas. Of course, regular car companies are scrambling to keep up. They want to be fast enough that they are ready if Tesla fails, to purchase the failed factories on auction, hire the same workers at 75 cents on the dollar, and not have have the burden of cost to train them, and add their expertise from gas car manufacturing, and turn a profit.
Remember, many companies that bear the cost of innovation, die by that cost. And then success rises from the ashes.