Interstellar Object 'Oumuamua' Appears To Be Wrapped In An Organic Insulation Layer (theguardian.com)

dryriver writes: Oumuamua is the cigar-shaped object -- about 400 meters long and only 40 meters in the other dimensions -- that originated from somewhere else in the Galaxy and visited our Solar system while moving at nearly 130,000 miles per hour. Scientists do not know where Oumuamua came from or what it is made of -- it is not shaped like commonly seen asteroids, and unlike comets, it does not leave a trail behind it, not even when it flew past the Sun. Oumuamua seems to be wrapped in a strange organic coat made of carbon-rich gunk that it likely picked up on its long travels through space. The coat, which gives Oumuamua a dark red appearance according to scientists, was examined by using spectroscopy, which looks at the light being reflected from its surface and splits it down into its wavelengths. By looking at those measurements, scientists can work out what the object might be composed of. Scientists regard it as likely that Oumuamua may be of icy composition on the inside, but that the ice doesn't come off the object due to the thick organic crust that is wrapped around it. Oumuamua has also got extraterrestrial watchers excited. Some believe that its strange, long shape suggests that it is a spaceship of some sort passing through our Solar system. Whatever Oumuamua turns out to be, it certainly has researchers and space watchers around the world fascinated and puzzled at the same time.

Comments

Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[allaunjsilverfox2]

It would be interesting if it picked up the "gunk" while hanging out there.

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[CrimsonAvenger]

Well, it passed through there to get here.

But, as I understand it, it is moving at greater than solar escape speed, so it didn't come from there originally.

Caveat: if there are two very large (gas giant sized) planets in the Oort Cloud, it's conceivable that its speed could be a result of near approaches to both of them in a (relatively) short period (less than one orbit)....

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[Anonymous Coward]

It did not pass through the oort cloud.

This thing came into our solar system above the "cloud," which is really a belt, and it will leave below it.

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[hackertourist]

AIU the Oort cloud is spherical. The Kuyper belt is an actual belt (although with large deviations from the average inclination).

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[Rei]

There's no need to "pick up" tholins; they seem to naturally form everywhere we look in the distant solar system, from simple carbon and nitrogen compounds. Kuiper belt objects are a mix of red (tholins) and white (ices); where you see ices, that's generally young terrain. Actually, to be fair, tholins are more of a rust brown than "red", but that's picking at straws ;) Tholins are an extremely broad range of chemical compounds (some very long), and probably differ significantly in ratios from place to place, but form a family of common celestial organic "gunk".

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[sheramil]

Does anyone remember the author, and name, of a science fiction story about an asteroid named "Pomona Negra", or "Black Apple", which had inexplicably turned red, and was found to be coated with a form of life that kept growing, and spread to the boots of the crew sent to investigate and eventually to the lunar base they returned to?

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[kilfarsnar]

Does anyone remember the author, and name, of a science fiction story about an asteroid named "Pomona Negra", or "Black Apple", which had inexplicably turned red, and was found to be coated with a form of life that kept growing, and spread to the boots of the crew sent to investigate and eventually to the lunar base they returned to?

The Red Stuff by John Wyndham

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[Type44Q]

Slingshotting isn't to gain velocity; it's to change direction without expending fuel/reaction mass.

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[dryeo]

Slingshotting can add velocity (by stealing it from the planet it is passing) or even reduce velocity. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

In orbital mechanics and aerospace engineering, a gravitational slingshot, gravity assist maneuver, or swing-by is the use of the relative movement (e.g. orbit around the Sun) and gravity of a planet or other astronomical object to alter the path and speed of a spacecraft, typically to save propellant and reduce expense. Gravity assistance can be used to accelerate a spacecraft, that is, to increase or decrease its speed or redirect its path. The "assist" is provided by the motion of the gravitating body as it pulls on the spacecraft.[1] The gravity assist maneuver was first used in 1959 when the Soviet probe Luna 3 photographed the far side of Earth's Moon, and it was used by interplanetary probes from Mariner 10 onwards, including the two Voyager probes' notable flybys of Jupiter and Saturn.

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[DigiShaman]

I'm going with - It's one of many turds that Galactus leaves behind.

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[CrimsonAvenger]

Please to stop using "velocity" when you mean"speed".

Remember, speed is a scalar, velocity is a vector. 60 mph is a speed, 60 mph due north is a vector.

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[careysub]

Slingshotting isn't to gain velocity; it's to change direction without expending fuel/reaction mass.

Correct, it is a velocity vector rotation about the center of mass of the object. However it is a rotation in the moving frame of reference relative to the Sun, so it typically does change the velocity relative to the sun (and yes speed also, but I really mean velocity).

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[careysub]

Well, it passed through there to get here.

But, as I understand it, it is moving at greater than solar escape speed, so it didn't come from there originally.

Depends on what you mean by "there". It came from interstellar space and has thus been passing on a trajectory on its own, orbiting the galaxy very likely for billions of years, passing through all kinds of environments. It would be interesting to see someone do a study on probabilities of exposure to various environments over such a long time. How many stars does it make a pass around? How long in giant molecular gas clouds, and in dust clouds?

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[Anonymous Coward]

In my language, "velocidade" means both speed and velocity. Only from the context one can infer scalar or vector. That may be the reason we don't have good rocket science.

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[redoregon69]

Victor, give me the vector. Roger, Roger.

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[arkarumba]

Shirley! Is that you?

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[sheramil]

Thank you.

Re:Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[KingBenny]

yea maybe thats what the sticky layer is for ...
it must be a Vorlon ship, i'm gonna have to alert the shadows Musk wont be on time to dig them out

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[slashdotwannabe]

TIL TY :)

Re: Could it have hung out in the oort cloud?

[CrimsonAvenger]

Correct, it is a velocity vector rotation about the center of mass of the object. However it is a rotation in the moving frame of reference relative to the Sun, so it typically does change the velocity relative to the sun (and yes speed also, but I really mean velocity).

Of course, changing the direction of motion changes the velocity (pretty much by definition). So, no, you don't really mean velocity, you mean speed....

How fast...

[Anonymous Coward]

How fast is that in hogsheads per hand-decades?

Re:How fast...

[Immerman]

That would have been funnier if you used units that could actually measure speed.

Re:How fast...

[rgbatduke]

Standard Barleycorns per candle?

Re:How fast...

[Bing Tsher E]

I would say they should specify the speed in kilometers per hour, but what the hell? Why are we still using a non-decimal representation of time? The solar cycle has 24 hours? Really? Why 24? Shouldn't we have already converted to a decimal time system? If not, why not? It's arbitrary as heck, and that's the only requirement for radical unit shifts.

Re:How fast...

[dryeo]

It makes more sense in a base 60 numbering system (12 hours in a day), along with 360 degrees in a circle. Somehow we've gone backwards by using a base 10 numbering system. Babylon used base 60, some primitive tribes, who counted using the gaps between fingers, used base 8.

Re:How fast...

[Immerman]

You've got the distance, but I can't find any use of "candle" as time, am I missing one?

Megacubits per fortnight?

Or you could add in a bunch of extraneous self-cancelling measures so that things all cancel out to still get a single distance per time ratio e.g.
Poncelet per sthène (power/force = distance/time)
or if you want to get really ridiculous
oxgang-spuculum-calories per batman-hogshead
(d^2) (t) (m*d^2/t^2) / (m) (d^3) = d / t

Re: How fast...

[barakn]

Actually there are 2 PI radians in a circle. Perhaps you shouldn't comment on the mental acuity of others when you yourself were off by a factor of pi? It's so easy to remember that a right angle is ~1.5707963267948966192313216916398 radians.

Re:How fast...

[networkBoy]

Because nature doesn't conform to decimal time.
The second is defined based on caesium atoms.

AFAIK there is no realistic decimal time proposal that doesn't have issues with solar time.

Re:How fast...

[youngone]

The French had a crack at that in 1793. People were not generally in favour.

Re:How fast...

[rgbatduke]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:How fast...

[MrKaos]

The second is defined based on caesium atoms.

Presumably you mean that its defined that way now, however the way one second was defined is ancient.

A pendulum at one standard gravity swinging in a 30 degree arc defines one second (duration of swing), one metre (length of pendulum), and one royal Egyptian cubit (distance of swing at one metre). A remarkable co-incidence but much easier for ancient people to observe than the decay of an isotope.

You can try it at home, however YMMV depending on where you are in the world. The minute variations of gravity you experience locally might mean you get slightly more or less than 86400 seconds in one day.

Re:How fast...

[ceoyoyo]

You're looking for m/s, which is the standard unit for speed. Both metres and seconds are base units, defined in terms of observables that depend on fundamental physics.

Convention is to leave the seconds but apply an SI prefix to the metres. Oumaumua was travelling almost 60 km/s.

Rendezvous with Rama

[Camembert]

When the news about the object broke, I immediately thought about Rendezvous with Rama. Probably many others here as well. Pity that it is impossible to do an intercept mission for closer study.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[surfdaddy]

Well you know these things happen in THREES.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[RubberDogBone]

Impossible for now. If we manage to survive long enough, we may eventually come up with a really fast method of space travel and chasing down this thing would be a good use for it, as it will probably be closer than the nearest stars for a very long time to come.

Even if it takes 100 years, it will still be "only" 0.02 light years away if it maintains its speed of 210,000kph. It will take around 400 years to reach the inner edge of the Oort cloud.

This thing is going to be in the Sol system for a long time. We can go see it. Well, probably not we. But descendants of ours could.

Re: Rendezvous with Rama

[Anonymous Coward]

Ars technica covered this https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/so-you-want-to-send-a-probe-to-catch-up-to-oumuamua/
Best bet is those tiny starshot space probes that are still in development.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[K. S. Kyosuke]

We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[Chriscypher]

We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.

Sounds like a job for Tony Stark aka Elon Musk!

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[Eloking]

We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.

Wait, until there's something in "Detla-V" that I'm missing, 10 km/s is 36 000 km/h and twenty times that is 720 000 km/h. Still not "that" much faster to catch up to him quickly. And I'm guessing coming back with a sample is out of the equasion.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[Dan East]

Yeah but unless you want a blazing fast flyby, you would have to also spend a lot of time and fuel decelerating. There isn't enough gravity pool in either object to be useful for capture at those speeds.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[K. S. Kyosuke]

You could finish the development of the thruster before you'd finish the development of everything else you'd need, so it's not on your critical path. The thrusters are really not your limiting factor here. A nuclear reactor is.

Re: Rendezvous with Rama

[Type44Q]

Word is that Clarke got the idea for Rama from his role as a consultant on the Black Knight Satellite...

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Sample return would be somewhat more complicated, but since the object's velocity at infinity is around 26 km/s, anything over 100 km/s is going to catch up fairly quickly and even ~50 km/s could be usable. In fact, your egress speed could even limited by your ability to decelerate in deep space quickly enough not to , although I'd have to do some calculations for that. Anyway, given this object's trajectory, your best bet with what we have available (or will have available in the next fifteen years or so) is a Ulysses-like maneuver to change your orbital plane inclination in a Jupiter flyby, then using the Oberth effect as close to the Sun as possible to maximize the benefits of high-thrust propulsion, then a period of electric thruster acceleration and deceleration. Note that on its own, a 6 km/s Oberth maneuver close to the Sun from parabolic velocity could give you about 40 km/s at infinity even at a reasonably survivable distance from the Sun. The other variables are much more variable. I'd have to write a numerical model for that.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[K. S. Kyosuke]

...quickly enough not to overtake the object...

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[Maritz]

Never saw someone use the term 'space nutter' who wasn't a complete twat. I imagine you're no exception.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[careysub]

We could *already* get to it, if we really wanted. Dawn has reached a 10 km/s delta-v even with primitive ion thrusters and simple solar panels. With the DS4G thrusters currently in development, you could do twenty times as much.

You should say "If we want to be ready to do it next time we see one of these, we can be."

Doesn't help us this time.

It is asking a bit much to expect us to have an advanced mission to launch designed to intercept something we have never seen before. But if its natural then there will be more, and if not "they come in threes" (that's a joke, but not really - either way, why should this be the only one?).

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[micahraleigh]

John M. Keynes likes this idea. Jobs for everyone studying the material gone tomorrow !

If people miss their tax dollars they can just earn more.

Simple! Easy!

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[crunchygranola]

It will be interesting to see someone propose funding such a probe, to be ready for launch if (when) another interstellar object is detected. Can they get traction with anyone with money?

If NASA, the ESO and China won't spring for it, maybe some group of billionaires? Musk, Bezos, Gates, Buffet, are you guys in? Maybe if Stephen Hawking asks?

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[crunchygranola]

It is estimated that three interstellar objects enter [and leave] the Solar System everyday. There will be plenty of opportunities in the future, as we refine our techniques.

Without a qualification for size and how close it comes to the Sun talking about how often they enter the Solar System is meaningless (i.e. how large and how close determines rate). According to this FAQ from NASA about this:

Yes, scientists expect to find more interstellar objects, especially when next-generation asteroid search programs come online. They estimate that an interstellar object similar to 1I/2017 U1 passes inside the orbit of the Earth several times a year, but up until now they have been too faint and hard to detect. Recent upgrades to survey telescopes such as Pan-STARRS increase the chances of finding these objects, and those odds will increase even more when next-generation survey telescopes begin operations.

So, "several times a year" for something this large and this close or closer to the Sun (close approach is important in making detections)

However there is something that does not quite add up. They also state that scientists expect most of these objects will be comets. Comets approaching this close should be relatively easy to detect, even with older systems/techniques. Not sure what the story is here.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[K. S. Kyosuke]

...a nuclear drive most likely using an ion engine. Electric rockets actually are of the mix-and-match kind here. Electricity is fungible.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[K. S. Kyosuke]

You should say "If we want to be ready to do it next time we see one of these, we can be." Doesn't help us this time.

I'm actually fairly convinced that this time is included. After all, any similar mission couldn't just reach a similar object as it is passing, mostly because of the plane change requirements. By the time you're on a proper heliocentric hyperbolic intercept trajectory, the object is already dozens of astronomical units ahead of you.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[scdeimos]

I wonder if Morgan Freeman will ever get to produce the movie and play the part of Norton? He's pushing eighty now.

Re:Rendezvous with Rama

[toddestan]

Did you pick up "Rendezvous with Rama" or one of the other Rama books? The first one (Rendezvous) is a classic, the sequels....well....if you skip them you aren't missing much.

Alieums?

[Spilt_Blood]

By "extraterrestrial watchers" they mean crack-pots right? Look I'm all for the idea that we cannot be alone in this universe. In fact I think that the idea that we are alone is down right blasphemous/preposterous, but considering the sheer size of the universe, and the "Special" conditions that would be needed(as far as we know) to propagate sentient life, seeing an "Alien" spacecraft would near impossible. There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us? We are down right barbaric, not to mention that our own space program(USA) has almost taken a giant leap backwards, with all of the budget cuts! Unless we are to become slaves/food/resources, they would likely have zero interest in us IMHO.

Re: Alieums?

[AvitarX]

I'm not sure that barbaric is uninteresting as long as the cost to visit is low (which I doubt is physically possible with speed of light and all, but let's just assume that unlimited contact energy and matter manufacture are possible so that a generation ship is easy with enough tech). We watch animals slaughter each other (that's what nature documentaries were when I grew up).

All that said, it seems unlikely that this is a spaceship to me, for one thing it's very small for a ship that travels all around at sub light speeds.

Re: Alieums?

[ixidor]

some assumptions: post scarcity production, such that the cost to produce a good is $0 or very close to it, nearly unlimited energy, and science lets say 200-2000+ years more advanced. If you could do FTL (ignoring the whole infinite energy requirement somehow) relative time would slow to a crawl. add in some sort of stasis during the transport, and "awake" time relative to home planet would feel like say a weeks time. with all that a trip to the barbaric planet to watch nations fight it out sounds reasonable.

Re: Alieums?

[Spilt_Blood]

perhaps, but why? I like gore just as much as the next guy, but what purpose would that serve... a vacation to a war-zone isn't my kind of relaxation! Understandably curiosity might be the only answer here, unless... it would be like looking back in time for them.... Father: Look Timmy, 1000 years ago we were just like them. Timmy: Really Daddy? Why are they so mean to each other? Father: They are stupid! Lol!

Re:Alieums?

[rtb61]

Apart from one logical thing, why would you think more advanced aliens would be stupider than us. We have spent fuck all time looking for them, but they have spent millions even billions of years looking for us. How to find us very early in our transitional state from primitive to modern. The simplest infra red satellite dotted around the galaxy in their billions, in orbit around suitable planets, looking for the first clump of camp fires. Why the hell would advanced societies not look for primitive societies in the earliest stages of development so that this generation of aliens, this living generation can live through what their distant (keep in mind your own numbers, millions even billions of years distant) ancestor went through experience that moment of birth from planetary species to galactic species, a show that many generations of aliens would get to watch for tens of thousands of years, not that long considering their possible life times.

You want the really weird stuff, say there is a huge welcome to the galaxy party for us, so that we are less chicken shit about exploring and colonising our part of the galaxy, how big an event would that be for them, some might have waited for the entire lives for that once in a million year party. Would they cheat, accelerate our development so they would be alive for that event, and would there be a mass die off there after for those who extended their life well beyond desirability just to experience what would be a galaxy wide event. As societies probably not, as individuals they would probably try to cheat the system, just numbers.

It is not even logical that advanced societies would be composed entirely of advanced aliens, they could retain planets with primitive versions of themselves, those who did not want to advance and just wanted to retain that pre-galactic life style, especially their own home world, for them not much more advanced than us, our show or virtually countless versions there off, to suit different societies and different groupings within those societies and different individuals beyond count, would be particular entertaining, particularly addictive. Does galactic society go through psychological trauma experiencing out trials and tribulation, that impact upon very old, very stable and very boring societies. Once you really start fucking with numbers and probability over time outcomes, a lot of very interesting things become probable and logical.

What would we see, as little as they could possibly achieve, apart from approved experiments, approved by the greater galaxy, can not fuck up what happens every say million years, there would likely be galactic chaos should we be 'extinctified' by accident or even be allowed to do it too ourselves and absolutely not on purpose, a million years for the next event and many generations of long dead aliens before it happens again. The rarer, the more possessive the rest of the galaxy would be. The most suspicious example of this logic, the lack of major impacts for many tens of thousands of years.

Consider the driving force for intellectual development, is mental adaptability providing a significant evolutionary advantage of physical evolution due to sustained major climatic variations (fire, skinning other animals for their furs etc),in our case ice ages over the past couple of million years.

Re: Alieums?

[AvitarX]

Especially if we consider that only once every few generations (at best) would anything interesting be seen.

Still, the idea of a wandering near lightspeed generation ship with good accomodations doesn't seem impossible, if only because terraforming could be really hard.

If the options are to live in a self contained large structure on a planet that's otherwise inhospitable, or to live in one that wanders and every century or two sees something new, I'm sure there are people that would choose the second.

Re:Alieums?

[Spilt_Blood]

perhaps there was a miscommunication... No-one has even hinted at aliens being dumber than us... but now that you have mentioned it I surmise that it could be possible. You do however bring up some very interesting thoughts about civilization, and especially the thought about keeping some planets at a lower technological era for a given species... intriguing!

Re: Alieums?

[AvitarX]

Except then you never get to come home.

Unless your whole life was the ship, it doesn't make sense.

Sure, maybe some species has a life span in the thousands of years, and making the journey only costs a relative month back home, but that seems unlikely, as a lifespan that long would make evolution (both genes and memes) very slow, reducing the likely hood of becoming so advanced.

Re: Alieums?

[Zocalo]

The assumption there is that aliens would operate with the same timeframe constraints we do. Humans are pretty bad at projects that are not going to be completed/operational within a single lifetime; even the Great Wall of China is really a number of smaller projects, and I can only think of a couple of scientific experiments that have been on-going for more than a century, although I'm sure there are others. An alien race on the otherhand need not think that way and, even before you take into account they might be much longer lived and more patient than we are, sending out space probes that are not going to return any results for millennia, if at all, might not be seen a conceptual problem.

That said, I don't think it's a probe or multigenerational ship either; it not only seems awfully small for a multi-generational ship (assuming a reasonable minimum size for any lifeforms that might crew it), but also needlessly large for an automated probe. Maybe if you allow for the occupants being in stasis for the voyage, some kind of currently inactive propulsion system that allows for much faster speeds than we're currently seeing, or various other Sci-Fi scenarios. The real deal breaker though is waste heat; there doesn't seem to be any, so if it is a ship then it's either very energy efficient or a wreck.

Re:Alieums?

[fisted]

There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us?

Uh, maybe the same interest we'd have in them? After all you're saying yourself it takes pretty special circumstances, so that's interesting by definition.

We are down right barbaric

Yeah, and only you are enlightened enough to realize this. And the aliens would know/see this without watching.

smh

Re:Alieums?

[Spilt_Blood]

Agreed, and agreed... I concede to your logic.

Re: Alieums?

[Hal_Porter]

You could do 15 to 20% of light speed with a postage stamp sized spacecraft and a shitload of lasers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

We could send the aliens a Qualcomm Snapdragon. Everyone likes Qualcomm Snapdragons.

Re: Alieums?

[Boronx]

Small to whom I wonder?

Re:Alieums?

[Anonymous Coward]

> There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us?

(1) What interest do the "Zablaxians", who only recognize the inherent slow sentience of stars, have in us? Nothing!
(2) What interest do the "Cusnowichians", who have spent several millenia solving all philosophy, have in us? Nothing! ...
(93834871) What interest do the "DeusMachinians", who are actively trying to meet with and elevate other species, have in us? Plenty!
(93834872) What interest do the "Sumbitchians", who believe that no dish is as delicate and subtle as that born of genocide, have in us? Plenty!

The order of the last two may make a difference, but the vastness of the universe means that there isn't *AN* alien race, there's either zero, one vague undefined force, creature, or society that destroys all newcomers, or UNCOUNTABLY MANY. There's not really many other possibilities. If you think all alien races eventually come to some cosmically similar conclusion that all species must meet the same set of criteria to "deserve" contact, you are vastly underestimating the diversity in the cosmos, or vastly overestimating the idea that one philosophy will appeal to all thinking things once they reach some level of understanding, and dismissing any cases that could deviate from that at all.

The universe is one of three things: empty, about to welcome us, or about to kill us. They aren't going to ALL somehow come to the conclusion that we are unworthy of chat because we eat meat or whatever the fuck fantasy you got programmed with.

Re:Alieums?

[OneSmartFellow]

Buried somewhere deep in all those words is a thought trying desperately to get out.

Re: Alieums?

[Baron_Yam]

>If the options are to live in a self contained large structure on a planet that's otherwise inhospitable, or to live in one that wanders and every century or two sees something new, I'm sure there are people that would choose the second.

Once you can build a generation ship, you no longer need planets. In fact, planets become undesirable because their gravity wells make accessing resources more difficult.

If you want to find intelligent, space-faring aliens... look in the Oort cloud. Not that we'd be able to see anything of the anticipated size that far out, but that's where I'd expect them to be found.

Re:Alieums?

[aod7br7932]

They are here. Having fun with us. Playing Civilization is one of the most fun one can have.

Re: Alieums?

[Nidi62]

If intelligent origins (low chance), it would be presumptuous for us to assume it was meant for us.

Cheap is the key word here. With high enough tech, lobbing a few hunks of rock around the galaxy could be a very cheap way to send out a remote satellite or life-seeding system.

So....what you're saying is we should probably call up Casper Van Dien and tell him to get ready? Better visit Buenos Aires while you still can.

Re: Alieums?

[Oswald McWeany]

a lifespan that long would make evolution (both genes and memes) very slow, reducing the likely hood of becoming so advanced.

On the flipside, if you're advanced enough to create interstellar spacecraft, you might very well be advanced enough to eliminate aging in your species artificially.

Even if they couldn't, there are plenty of other natural alternatives outside of technology. Lifespan is relative. A long lifespan just means that it just takes longer to evolve, who says they haven't been around longer than us? Their biology might be such that they evolve quicker, higher number of mutations. They might have a cyclical lifetime where they go through phases of growth and dieback, and they could mutate multiple times in a lifetime (Some species do that on earth- although could an advanced species do that and retain memories?- not inconceivable). The mutation that caused extremely long lifespans could have evolved late in their development when they were already becoming the dominant species on their planet.

Any number of explanations why a long-lived species could be out there.

Re: Alieums?

[Oswald McWeany]

it not only seems awfully small for a multi-generational ship (assuming a reasonable minimum size for any lifeforms that might crew it)

How does one determine a reasonable size?

A cockroach has the same mental capacity as a rodent, its "brain" is miniscule but highly efficient and advanced for such a small creature. Spiders have similarly complex "brains" and can learn, remember, understand cause and effect be taught tricks... etc.

If you took a brain with the sheer efficiency and complexity of a spider/cockroach and scaled it up to a cat sized organism you could potentially have an organism far more intelligent than us.

Then there is the matter of how much space do they need? If the species is advanced enough, do they need to actually physically move around? Can they be "wired-in" to a central computer and have the perception of a lot of space? Not as glamorous as the roomy ships of the Star Trek federation and other sci-fi, but much more efficient and probably more likely for interstellar travel than roomy space ships would be.

Re:Alieums?

[Oswald McWeany]

(93834871) What interest do the "DeusMachinians", who are actively trying to meet with and elevate other species, have in us? Plenty!
(93834872) What interest do the "Sumbitchians", who believe that no dish is as delicate and subtle as that born of genocide, have in us? Plenty!

Intelligent species will probably have some aggressive tendencies. After all, which species on earth seem to evolve more intelligence? Hunters/Omnivores that have to strategise how to catch food- or Omnivores that need to run or hide.

By necessity, aggressive species also develop intelligence. So, probably most intelligent species to evolve would not be gentle.

Then there comes to pure strategy. Any alien species given enough time could become more advanced than you. Any species more advanced than you, could overpower you. Given enough time and changes in morals/leadership, you will eventually get a leader of that other species that WILL want to kill you.

In the end, there can be only one dominant species. Logic states, if you can wipe out any other intelligent species, you should.

Re:Alieums?

[Oswald McWeany]

"Omnivores that need to run or hide."

Obviously, I intended to say herbivores.

Re:Alieums?

[Ol Olsoc]

By "extraterrestrial watchers" they mean crack-pots right?

People are capable of some pretty impressive belief's and disbelief's. I know one guy who denies that humans ever reached the moon at the same time insists that this rock is a spaceship filled with aliens. We somehow cannot get 250 K miles away with proven technology, but aliens scoot around in goo covered rocks. Sounds legit.

Re:Alieums?

[jbmartin6]

The thing about aliens is, they are alien. You have no idea how they think or what they value. Maybe they love "Ally McBeal"

Re: Alieums?

[jbmartin6]

Plenty of people enjoy American football

Re:Alieums?

[Immerman]

Actually I recall a study recently that suggested that statistically speaking herbivores are as intelligent as carnivores. One example being elephants, who are one of the more intelligent species on the planet, quite likely more-so than chimpanzees. Might not carry to large-herd animals that rely on shear numbers for safety - but for more individualist species figure that predators are trying to out-think lunch, while prey are trying to out-think more immediate death. Which do you suppose applies the stronger selective pressure? There's usually stupider prey to be found. In fact, it might well be mid-sized omnivores, who are both predator and prey, that tend to become the most intelligent since they're under pressure from both ends.

Where human intelligence is concerned, it seems likely that one of the major defining moments in our evolution may have actually happened a very long time ago, when primates evolved to have constant-sized neurons, unlike most species whose neurons scale with body size (like basically all other cell types do). The result being that as body size increased, so did intelligence, even as the brain/body ratio remained the same.

Then, above some organism size threshold, the metabolic cost of larger brains was substantially less than the increase in intelligence. Of course to get to where we are now also requires an environment that offers substantial rewards for intelligence. Our other cousins among the higher primates seem to have mastered their environment well enough, and saw their intelligence plateau, while something happened to our ancestors to continue rewarding increased intelligence - perhaps it was when we ventured from the trees to the plains - unwilling or unable to compete with our relatives for prime space in the trees, and began a long migratory journey of adapting to new environments despite comparatively weak physical assets.

Re: Alieums?

[Zocalo]

I agree it's highly speculative and constrained by our non-existant experience with alien life which is why I didn't even try and quantify it. Still, at the very minimum you're going to need a capacity to actually construct the thing and understand the maths, science, etc. required for to do so which implies a minimum brain (or equivalent) capacity, plus a the necessary stature and dexterity to physically manipulate the construction materials and withstand the rigours of the trip. Learning simple tricks is completely different than having a sufficient grasp of STEM and the levels of manual dexterity for such a project, so while I think more/less compact frames than a human is certainly possible for a space-faring species, there are almost certainly size limits in both directions, regardless of the precise physiology.

The more significant variable might be personal space - most humans seem to need quite a bit of it except for relatively short periods of time, but there's no reason why another species wouldn't be perfectly OK with next to none. However that's another trade off; even if they don't move around much or need much spare space, they still need to supply energy to keep the crew alive; food and/or power which requires at least some space, no matter how efficient the recycling systems and power generators are. The larger the crew, the larger the life-support systems required. On the otherhand, if you shrink the crew count too much on a multi-generational ship you are potentially going to have issues with genetic diversity and susceptibility to diseases - assuming either of those is relevant to our hypothetical aliens, of course.

Re: Alieums?

[Suffering Bastard]

We are down right barbaric, not to mention that our own space program(USA) has almost taken a giant leap backwards, with all of the budget cuts! Unless we are to become slaves/food/resources, they would likely have zero interest in us IMHO.

That doesnâ(TM)t make any sense. Why wouldnâ(TM)t space aliens be interested in us, perhaps even more so because of our history of barbarism? Particularly given the heroism that naturally arises in such a world.

We may not all be that interesting, but the aliens (not saying they exist) might be quite impressed with the likes of Hitler and Ghandi and how the rest of us deal with them. If some humans get super jazzed over whatâ(TM)s going on in a petri dish, it seems totally reasonable that some aliens would really dig the study of âoelowerâ life forms like humans.

Re: Alieums?

[Type44Q]

Apart from one logical thing, why would you think more advanced aliens would be stupider than us.

That's easy: the more advanced we get, the dumber we're becoming.

Re:Alieums?

[LynnwoodRooster]

Apart from one logical thing, why would you think more advanced aliens would be stupider than us.

Because as we've seen in movies, we can easily infect their systems with malware!

Re: Alieums?

[magarity]

If you took a brain with the sheer efficiency and complexity of a spider/cockroach and scaled it up to a cat sized organism you could potentially have an organism far more intelligent than us.

You've just hypothesized Yoda.

Re:Alieums?

[DigiShaman]

Or maybe, aliens are nothing more than AI machines evolved from their host organic planet; effectively ambassadors to their home world. When you've got something trekking the universe with an IQ of 1 million +, why would they care about us? Let be honest here, we humans have a huge ego. We like to think we matter, and are important; and to ourselves we are. But to anything else outside our social sphere, why would they give two fucks? That's like some ant colony next to your home pondering if the POTUS will come visit them. Not going to happen.

Re:Alieums?

[tburkhol]

There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us?

I assume, the same interest that we have in them: "Holy shit! Aliens!"

Re: Alieums?

[dryeo]

The problem with that idea is how do communicate with the Earth and without the capability of communicating any findings, what's the point?

Re: Alieums?

[Oswald McWeany]

On the otherhand, if you shrink the crew count too much on a multi-generational ship you are potentially going to have issues with genetic diversity and susceptibility to diseases - assuming either of those is relevant to our hypothetical aliens, of course.

That is certainly true of humans, and definitely for any terrestrial complex life we know. However, with technology though (and who knows how advanced such a species could be)- you could artificially provide for genetic diversity. Even in humans, if an embryo's DNA was initially printed by a computer somehow (rather than relying on mating for genetic selection), you could have certain genes appear in the population with a predictable occurrence.

If we, as a species, ever had a generational ship; I think, at least for the journey whilst the population were low, we would be unwise to leave procreation purely to mating individuals. I'd trust a computer to get a better balance of population genetics that cupid's dart. Have a computer "print" off the chromosomes for individuals and add that material to the eggs. Put the men on birthcontrol, and let the computer get the women pregnant with computer-designed eggs. We're not able to do that yet; but we're also not able to create a reliable generation ship- I suspect, true designer babies will be technically feasible before a generation ship is.

If the computer contained a huge database of human DNA, once we got where we were going, you could print off a huge variation of new individuals- and have that 1st generation go about getting pregnant the old-fashioned way.

Re: Alieums?

[Shotgun]

And yet, you have people leaving the comforts of their home to visit the African congo. You have people competing to be the first to Mars where they will die on a bleak, baren desert of a planet. Not what I would choose to do does not equate to stupid.

Re:Alieums?

[painandgreed]

perhaps there was a miscommunication... No-one has even hinted at aliens being dumber than us... but now that you have mentioned it I surmise that it could be possible. You do however bring up some very interesting thoughts about civilization, and especially the thought about keeping some planets at a lower technological era for a given species... intriguing!

Certainly people have. There is a science fiction story called Pandora's Planet that put forth just that, mankind is much smarter than the large galactic civilization. The trimmed story is better IMHO than the full one which is more humorous. In the end, it hints at something else that other stories have brought up, which is that intelligence is not been shown to be an important trait to the survivability of a species and may even be detrimental.

Re:Alieums?

[HornWumpus]

Counterexample: Vegans.

Re: Alieums?

[Dread_ed]

Don't build. Grow your probes. Cast them to the stars like seeds on the wind. Embedded and encoded in each are the parts and pieces necessary to start life as it's creators knew, within a few standard deviations.

Don't look for these kids. They won't be where you thought and by the time you get there they won't act like you either.

Just know that whatever is out there, life, no life, a universe so sterile it isn't even dead....you made a difference in that vast coldness that abhors life. You gave the universe a whole new world, and that world will have a whole new history to be told one day by those who inhabit it. You will have significantly altered the infinite universe for all time.

These are the motivations of the Church of Panspermia. It's not just for aliens anymore. Won't you join today?

Re: Alieums?

[Mike Van Pelt]

If you took a brain with the sheer efficiency and complexity of a spider/cockroach and scaled it up to a cat sized organism you could potentially have an organism far more intelligent than us.

You've just hypothesized Yoda.

Should be "Yoda just hypothesized you have".

You're welcome.

Re:Alieums?

[sysrammer]

Buried somewhere deep in all those words is a thought trying desperately to get out.

Descartes replies, “No, I think not,” and disappears in a puff of logic

Re: Alieums?

[nut]

A cockroach has the same mental capacity as a rodent

Citation please.

Re: Alieums?

[crunchygranola]

Unless your whole life was the ship, it doesn't make sense.

If (when) we progress to space-based civilization then living in space will be the whole life for many. Of necessity real space settlements far from the Sun must be self-sustaining (distances are too great to order "spare parts"), if they accumulate the fuel needed to boost to say 1% c and then slow down, they will have enough energy to run their society for millions of years also.

These will not be "generation ships" so much as they will be space civilizations in motion.

The exhaust velocity of D+He-3 fusion is about 0.08 c. Using this fuel the extra mass needed to boost and stop a colony will be about 25% of the colony mass. There is a lot of He-3 in the atmospheres of the gas giants.

A colony might vote to go to another star where there is a planet on which we detect life so that it can be studied. There is only so much you can do to understand alien organisms from light years away, regardless of how great your telescope is.

Re:Alieums?

[TheNarrator]

It could be interstellar FedEx. They are just shipping some goods somewhere and nobody is on board.

Re: Alieums?

[david_thornley]

Actually, by 1800s standards, we are in post-scarcity production, with nearly unlimited energy, and science over 200 years more advanced.

Re:Alieums?

[david_thornley]

There was another story, I forget the title, author, and where I read it, that assumed that interstellar travel was feasible with 1600s technology, as long as you had the right insight. Humanity, unlike most intelligent species, managed to miss it. Demonstrating superiority with a matchlock musket volley didn't quite work on 20th-century Earth.

Re:Alieums?

[painandgreed]

There was another story, I forget the title, author, and where I read it, that assumed that interstellar travel was feasible with 1600s technology, as long as you had the right insight. Humanity, unlike most intelligent species, managed to miss it. Demonstrating superiority with a matchlock musket volley didn't quite work on 20th-century Earth.

"The Road Not Taken" by Harry Turtledove. Still, this was primarily about the technological differences between civilizations rather than the intelligence of species. In Pandora's planet, the emphasis was on intelligence. The space civilization had undisputibly higher tech, but were less capable to using it. The invaders and anti-grav flying vehicles with anti-matter direct fire weapons, only to discover that the humans had fossil fueled supersonic military craft that could fire self guided rockets at beyond visual range. WTF?!?! The aliens put their smartest people on advancing tech rather than making what they had more efficient because their average citizen probably couldn't maintain the manufacturing and infrastructure needed to put such into wide production. There were also issues with initiative as the alien's military was very top down, nobody was capable of acting without orders, while the humans could cut their soldiers free with general instructions. The humans had to capitulate in the end because although they won the ground war, the space civlization just threatened to nuke everything from orbit. Then it turns out that humans made great military leaders for the alien troops and were sent all over the galaxy as such. Book ends as the humans and aliens are finally coming to an workable long term arrangement when the aliens discover a new race that is as more intelligent than humans as humans are to the aliens indicating future hardship for them both.

It's just a big shit

[dUb]

We don't know where it came from but it seems to be a huge shit from some kind of alien. Really big alien.
Just think like when you're flying between Europe and Americas and need to go to toilet. And when you flush it gets out because of cabin pressure and get frozen. Just like Oumuamua is flying on space. And even the shape is almost same.
There can be some kind of bacteria to be investigated but it's not same life form like where it came out from.

Oh shit someone find the humpback whales

[sethmeisterg]

Before this thing gets here and starts tearing up the oceans.

Re: Apprentice

[sethmeisterg]

No, no, thatâ(TM)s Amagosa.

Re: Apprentice

[sethmeisterg]

"That's"

Explaining the Elongated Shape of Oumuamua

[little1973]

Explaining the Elongated Shape of Oumuamua by the Eikonal Abrasion Model

http://iopscience.iop.org/arti...

I've already seen the documentary on this...

[choprboy]

I've already seen the documentary on this. First the asteroid enters the solar system. Then the Bad Carrots arrive. And finally Lyekka eats Tokyo. Fortunately, we are a type 13 plant, so our suffering shouldn't last to much longer.

Re:I've already seen the documentary on this...

[Spilt_Blood]

Hmmm... Sci-Fi overload much? I think you forgot to mention that we are all Cylon descendants, so we would not be so tasty for Lyekka!

Has already been solved years ago

[future assassin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Interstellar Object 'Om nom nom'

[SeaFox]

Eat too much this holiday season, and you too will find yourself wrapped In an organic insulation layer when spring comes.

I am an expert in this field

[inking]

I am 20% confident that it is in fact the Zerg.

Iâ(TM)m not saying itâ(TM)s aliens...

[Anonymous Coward]

...but itâ(TM)s aliens.

Impressionable people watching bad SciFi?

[petes_PoV]

Some believe that its strange, long shape suggests that it is a spaceship

Is there any reason that an interstellar vehicle would or should be "rocket" shaped?

It seems to me that a streamlined profile is quite unnecessary for anything other than a launch from within an atmosphere.

Re:Impressionable people watching bad SciFi?

[Anonymous Coward]

Interstellar space isn't a total vacuum. I don't know whether drag is likely to be significant for an object of that size and speed, but a long shape would presumably minimise drag. On the other hand, if you're travelling slowly compared with the particles that are flying around and you are more concerned with minimising the number of particle strikes, because of the damage they might do, rather than with minimising drag, then a spherical shape would presumably be better. On the third hand, if the effect of a particle strike could be reduced by spreading out crucial systems through a larger volume of space... Anyone feel like doing some sums?

Re:Impressionable people watching bad SciFi?

[coofercat]

Whilst aerodynamics aren't really a concern, an elongated shape may still prove beneficial when navigating dust, debris or indeed anything else - when travelling at 130,000 miles/hour.

Our engineering suggests the elongated shape may also be 'natural' in some cases, in so much as you may want your living spaces as far away from your engines as you can get them - that naturally stretches out your ship design.

So yes, most of these sentiments are probably from watching sci-fi, but some aspects of it aren't necessarily as fictitious as the name may suggest.

Re:Impressionable people watching bad SciFi?

[Deadstick]

Is there any reason that an interstellar vehicle would or should be "rocket" shaped?

Yes: structural considerations. A columnar shape with thrust applied at one end (assuming it ever needs to maneuver) gives the most benign stress distribution and requires the least structural mass.

Re: Apprentice

[sethmeisterg]

I corrected myself :). It was from iOS's smart punctuation, which I subsequently disabled.

We Need to Build a Wall^H^H^H^H Sphere

[CanadianMacFan]

And have the Alpha Centurians pay for it!

Re:We Need to Build a Wall^H^H^H^H Sphere

[Jason Levine]

It needs to be built out of diamondium, not that inferior diamondillium that Wormstrum wants us to use.

Wormstrum!

Re:We Need to Build a Wall^H^H^H^H Sphere

[omnichad]

They outbid Dyson? This project might not suck after all.

Serously?

[johnnys]

This object is long, cylindrical and "covered" in organic matter? Wanna bet it's also tapered at both ends and smells bad?

People, it's a TURD!

This is the respect humans have in the galaxy: Aliens throw their shit at us.

It's a.....

[MerlTurkin]

Dead comet most likely. We've seen them before. The ices are either sublimated off or some are trapped in the core. But the UFO freaks don't want to hear it.

Shape?

[kbg]

long shape suggests that it is a spaceship of some sort

And why is that? You do realize that shape doesn't have to be streamlined in space? There is no air therefore you can have the shape to be any way you like.

Re:Shape?

[badzilla]

Yes but when it lands?

Re:Shape?

[kbg]

You are still assuming earth like atmosphere. On the alien planet it's possible there is little or no athmosphere.

Re:Shape?

[Nethemas the Great]

If such a small ship can traverse the gap between there and here it wouldn't be much of a leap to expect it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Vogons

[Guyle]

They're surveying the area for an interstellar bypass.

Dark brownish red, oblong, contains water....

[sabbede]

That's not an asteroid, nor is it an alien spaceship. It's an interstellar turd.

Darned sequel truthers...

[itsdapead]

Well you know these things happen in THREES.

Everybody knows that is false. Next, you'll be claiming that there were two sequels to The Matrix, too.

:-)

Re:Darned sequel truthers...

[cyberchondriac]

Actually there were four or more if you count the animated Animatrix..

Re:Darned sequel truthers...

[cyberchondriac]

Actually there were four or more if you count the animated Animatrix..

Whoosh!

The whoosh is on you, I was just pointing out that there are actually *more* than 3 sequels, whether they're "recognized" or not. I'm well aware of the sequels joke.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

We're in touch with aliens?

[omnichad]

Oumuamua has also got extraterrestrial watchers excited.

How do we know that???

Re:We're in touch with aliens?

[sysrammer]

Nicely done.

Re:Im not saying its aliens...

[omnichad]

I'm not saying it's unicode, but it's unicode.

Re:Im not saying its aliens...

[Bing Tsher E]

It's the dreaded Apple Punctuation Bug.

Yeah.... but

[gosand]

There could be aliens out there now, but what interest would they have in us? We are down right barbaric, not to mention that our own space program(USA) has almost taken a giant leap backwards, with all of the budget cuts! Unless we are to become slaves/food/resources, they would likely have zero interest in us IMHO.

I agree with you... but THEY don't know that.

Look, it's really almost impossible to fathom the size of our solar system, let alone the universe. I would venture that most people can't even conceptually understand it. But coming up with outright dumb theories - they are great at doing.

Now hear this!

[theendlessnow]

"Let's send this puppy back where it came from. Nuke it."

- Gen. Talbot

Re:Im not saying its aliens...

[omnichad]

And Slashdot could fix it by just turning a ‘ into ‘ even if they didn't implement proper Unicode support.

pickle

[NikeHerc]

It's a pickle that escaped from a space picnic! Nothing to see here, folks, move along.

Re: Apprentice

[cyberchondriac]

Why not use 'sic' to denote it's not a typo..? TM looks like Trademark to me.

Starship Troopers

[cyberchondriac]

It's a new missile sent by the bugs, they just missed with their first shot. Expect more incoming.

Time for a bath

[Tablizer]

wrapped in a strange organic coat made of carbon-rich gunk that it likely picked up on its long travel

Dude, I know the feeling

Re:Intergalactic Space Ship Turd

[Perl-Pusher]

I was thinking Space Dragon Turds. Since the Doctor Who episode shows the moon as one of their eqgs , why couldn't this be their turd? In real life who knows? Shit just happens.

Mr. Hankey

[TeknoHog]

Howdy ho! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Somebody hit wipers please.

[mnemotronic]

"thick crust of carbon-rich gunk" == Inter-stellar bugs on the windshield.

Yo mama what?

[Optic7]

Sorry, had to ask that because it was the first thing I thought of when I read the name of this object. I actually thought it was a hoax/prank for a second.

Three possibilities

[PinkyGigglebrain]

1. It's some kind of Starseed

2. It's a sentient organic star ship like Gomtuu

3. its something totally natural but really, really, really weird that is going to have people discussing/arguing over what it is for years to come.

My moneys on 3, but 1 and 2 are more fun to think about.

Scientology and I sniffed that sister's ass crack

[brilanon8181]

OU muamua give it a little kiss like The Rock in Baraka

More like Roadside Picnic

[TheNarrator]

The great Russian sci-fi classic "Roadside Picnic" details an interaction with aliens in which we are absolutely not even interesting ot them. They just stop off on earth on their way to somewhere else for a roadside picnic and leave their crap behind, which we think is pure magical stuff. That's what I think this probe thinks of us. Our solar system and our planet are totally uninteresting.

Space Poo

[Luthair]

obviously.

giant florgzid dropping....

[gaaah]

You can pretty much gauge the size of a florgzid by the size of its dropping, and this is just a medium sized one. Still I'm surprised to see one this far out --probably really old. Rich in platinum if you can stomach mining it.