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Ask Slashdot: When Is the Right Time To Discuss Retirement With Your Employer?
An anonymous reader writes: As I am sliding down the far side of 60, retirement is something coming up in two or three years.
The usual notice time is two weeks, but I'm one of two people (maybe three if they pull one back in off other projects he's done the past four years) who do what I do, and is fairly important to the company's product. Yeah, we'd be in serious hurt if one of us were hit by a truck.
I'd like to give a lot of notice. It took them six months to find me for this position half a decade ago. But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.
Most slashdotters seem to be a lot younger than me, so maybe I'm asking in the wrong place, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?
The usual notice time is two weeks, but I'm one of two people (maybe three if they pull one back in off other projects he's done the past four years) who do what I do, and is fairly important to the company's product. Yeah, we'd be in serious hurt if one of us were hit by a truck.
I'd like to give a lot of notice. It took them six months to find me for this position half a decade ago. But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.
Most slashdotters seem to be a lot younger than me, so maybe I'm asking in the wrong place, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?
Watch out for your own best interest. Your employer will be doing the same
It seems to me that if you notify your employer of intent to retire, and they subsequently fire you, you've got a pretty solid case for wrongful termination... I say make sure you do everything in writing, and store copies of those communications somewhere outside of the company's control.
Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
THEY should worry about continued service, not you.
I had a very good engineer retire. He did it six months in advance, which from a management point of view seemed like a reasonable amount of time. (His exact words were "Just to let you know, I talked it over with my wife and we've met all of our retirement savings goals"). Longer than that seems unnecessary, and you may change your mind.
Old man dinosaur think's he is valuable and has realized that he has no retirement in American and is on slashdot asking what he should do.
How is that 401k treating you?
If they are good to you, turn it into a discussion so you can plan together. It shouldn't be hard. It's just a normal conversation. If they are bad to you, why are you working for them anyhow?
When you are *ready to go*, tell them you have decided to retire, and offer whatever notice period you want to.
Heck you could even retire and offer to provide consulting services on an as-needed basis.
Was a long time ago, old spice. We have google now.
Im sure they can just look for someone new on one of those websites with jobs or whatevs
After seeing a /. article about 40 year olds being discriminated against, I think I'll cool it on the retirement chatter... my dudes. *cough*
My mom and one close coworker have went through this in the past couple years, and in both cases they started a dialogue about this years before they were ready for retirement. Don't fool yourself into thinking that your employer hasn't already thought about the fact that a key employee is in his 60's. The best chance you have for this to work out in your favor is to open a dialogue with your employer.
Sure your employer could screw you over, but he could also hire someone in the next few months to cover his ass even though you intended on working a few more years. Unless you have an absolutely horrible relationship with your boss, this could likely be solved with a little communication.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
The day after your retirement party do you plan to buy a boat and head out to sea?
If you are not doing something like that I would not worry about giving more than a couple months notice.
Which really is enough time to put together an orderly transition/success; if you take some personal steps on your own to document things and fix up anyone old problems before you make your plans public.
If they really need you and you are not going anywhere right away, they can always bring you back on to do a little 1099 work for a few weeks.
Given them YEARS notice on the other hand just allows time for shenanigans like pushing you out to get the transition over on their terms rather than yours maybe before you are ready. Worse I have seen crappy companies let people go before making eligibility for 30 year bonuses / increased pensions etc. That sorta thing may or may not apply to you but why invite trouble if it does. At 60 you are not quite ready to take SS but might really have trouble finding another gig, taking SS early can have major financial draw backs; is another thing worth considering.
Really a couple months notice is plenty fair to all and makes sure you go when the time is right for you.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Since you're not going to move to another job in the industry, your employer will likely want you to stick around and train a replacement. IF they're a reasonable company, they won't be pushing you out the door if you tell them you're going to retire, they'll be planning the remainder of the time you have with them carefully.
... before you are laid off for being old.
First!
Give them as much notice as you like but be prepared for them to cut you loose early.
Whenever I give notice, I'm prepared to be walked that instant.
... and then offer to remain, either full-time or part-time/consulting, for some reasonable period of time to allow them to find and have you train your replacement. Worst case they simply say "no need, have a nice life" and you'll be retiring when you wanted to anyway. If they do take you up on the offer, though, then (a) it's some extra money; and (b) you're in control of the timeline; you can tell them "I'm done" whenever you like.
Basically treat it as your 2 weeks notice (or whatever is standard in your area). If you start talking about it too early, you paint a target on yourself. It's an easy way for them to "find" a reason to fire you so they don't have to pay out benefits. There's a fairly extreme amount of bias and discrimination against older folks in the workplace now as-is without painting an even larger target on yourself.
Our employer asks that you let them know up to 6 months in advance. Mind you, our company has a large percentage of workers over 45 and a large percentage of employees that have been here 25+ years. We have one employee in our area who will retire in exactly 1 year, 5 months and 27 days. There's zero chance they'll be dropped early and that would be the case for any employee here, barring an incident. Your mileage may vary depending on the employer...
He who forgets will be destined to remember. - EV
If no financial interest, then just leave when you want to retire.
Most employers won't give you a similar notice or consideration.
Loyalty doesn't work if it is one-way. What loyalty to you does your employer have?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I would give them advance notice.. no less than 90 days, no more than 6 months. I'd recommend a phase out schedule and not go cold turkey. Offer reduce your house to part time for a month or so while you transition to your new life style and the new recruit gets up to speed. tbh, I don't think I could ever retire.. I get bored on vacations.
Retirement is a mid-1900's concept, a fleeting fad. It was based on age 65 because most people didn't live that long, the median age was late-40's to mid-50's or something like that. From the employer's perspective there was a burgeoning younger work force and retirement was a way of dumping out the more expensive, more fossilized older workers in favor of cheaper, eager, more trainable younger workers.
Why retire? You are at your peak, so far, earning power. What are you going to do with your next 50 years? Perhaps your next 200 years of life as lifespans extend?
If you simply want to do something else, do that, but don't retire. Retire sounds way too much like died tired.
So, I'm getting up there and wish I had your problem. Retirement isn't really in sight. But if I were leaving a job, and my employer had been very good to me, and they weren't the over-reactive type, I'd work on easing myself out of the job. Start handing over some of the knowledge and responsibilities you have. Don't want them to know you are planning on making a grand exit? Then do it all in the name of healthy redundancy just in case you were to get hit by that proverbial truck. If those conditions don't all exist then you probably should just treat your planned retirement in the same manner as if you were switching employers -- give them two weeks notice once you booked that great stay in St. Lucia... or whatever.
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Retirement isn't a big secret. You think your bosses don't see that you are getting old? They know that anyone over 58 can go whenever they want depending on how they've planned. They'd much rather be able to plan a replacement assuming you fit a spot that needs filling.
Why would they fire you because you said that you were planning on leaving in the next 1-2 years? That makes no sense.
Alternatively, if they know you want to retire and they know a layoff is coming then that is a win win. They don't have to upset anyone, they get rid of someone who likely has a higher salary, and on top of it you get severance pay, insurance and unemployment.
Places I've worked would and did just escort people to the door the instant they lost a contract. One place wouldn't even let people clean out their desks. Belongings were mailed to them.
Another time I told an employer I was planning on going back to college at the end of a summer. I was immediately demoted.
But it's good that you're nice. If it were me, I'd drop a hint like, "I hear that other guy is thinking about quitting. Have you thought about hiring someone new?", and see what happens.
Assuming you don't intend to still work for your employer under contract, and your benefits are guaranteed, why not just give 2-3 weeks' notice as is standard? Your employer's happiness isn't your problem -- unless you're in a life-critical field like medicine where there are also patients involved.
Don't announce until you know that you are ok even if you leave that day. But I wouldn't give more than one month notice (double the standard two weeks). If you want, give them your consulting fee when you leave if they need to call you back for more questions about how things work.
Retirement? What is that?
Is that the thing where previous generations were able to stop working before they died?
Must have been nice.
Retirement just is not an option in the current reality. (Well, unless you intend to wander off somewhere to die of starvation and/or exposure.)
So, go ahead, let them know, and start training your replacement.
Unless you're working for a really stupid boss, tell him about a year ahead of time. This will allow him to plan a cautious transition. He will want the time to do it gradually rather than all at once. Trust me, your boss will love the idea of giving the new guy time to master each piece of the job before taking on the next one. Orderly transitions are worth the money.
Towards the end of the transition, find some short term things you can do to stay busy. As long as you're busy your boss looks OK to his boss and won't be in any hurry to show you the door sooner than you want to see it.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
That's not good.... Your employer should have in place "business continuity plans", which, just like "disaster recovery plans" deal with bad "what if's" that can befall an organization. Business Continuity Plans include succession plans for key personnel and knowledge.
When to talk about your retirement is separate topic. Personally, as someone who's 55, I would give 6 months to a year notice, and would likely do some heavy planning way before that. For example I have accrued (c) 450 hours of sick time. I'm certainly not going out leaving that on the table. Some employers don't pay it out so you'll have to use it up before you go - hence, long term planning. Good luck and enjoy!
Same age, same issues. I tried to retire last year and they basically offered me enough more money to tough it out for another year and finish a Corp project I've been working on forever. I'm healthy, relatively happy, and have it pretty cushy as a remote worker. I like the job when I get to do it. I'm on track to provide my deliverable for the project on time. So add some time for Corp to figure out what's up and maybe I'll try again next year.
The real danger in my experience is allowing your employers the impression that you're 'winding down' and getting ready to retire, without making it clear. If it's stated and known (at least an email) then firing you off early could put them in hot water, but if you've not said anything, then they're in the clear.
If you don't intend to retire soon, then what you need to keep a sharp eye out for are signs that they are about to can you anyways for reasons entirely unrelated to replacing you with someone less expensive (I imagine you've accumulated a fair amount of vacation time, decent wages, etc) and entirely related to "your performance"... at least according to what they'll tell you. Be wary of little jabs about your age or performance especially by those above you; it can easily be a sign that they have actively altered their view and begun making you look bad in the boardroom.
I'm still 15 years out from retirement, but I'd not give any MORE than 3 months notice, but at the same time, I'd not give any notice at all until I was comfortable that if they said "Thanks, but you're gone." I would be fine with it.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
and not be replaced because management didn't understand their value to the work we did, and we ended up paying for it silently by years of lost productivity and a simple inability to get things done because the people who left did their jobs competently and without drama, and were invisible. Your situation may be different or it may be the same. It's really a personal decision for you if you're emotionally invested in your company's product and don't want to see it tank because they couldn't figure out how the sausage was made in time. When you're ready to go, tell them straight out. But be prepared for a disappointment.
I can tell you from personal experience that the best time to discuss retirement with your employer is the day you are walking out the door for the last time. It's so satisfying. I still got my party and when the time comes, I'll still get my pension.
If your employer is going to end your employment, he almost certainly won't tell you about it until the last day. You already gave them their money's worth and you don't owe them anything.
Better yet, call them at 9am on the first day of your retirement to let them know you won't be in ever again.
You are welcome on my lawn.
...I'd put off notification until you are ready to retire, then let them bend over backwards to keep you around until they are ready with a replacement.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Don't give them an ounce more information than they need. Unless there is some benefit to you in disclosing your future plans, consider it none of their business. The bottom line is that anything you say (that doesn't fit nicely into the corporate world view) can and will be used against you. Just put in your two weeks and keep your mouth shut.
Talk to HR, do not talk to your manager.
Check your policies for compensation and use up your vacation time plan to leave the first week of a month, the company insurance will carry through to the end fo the month giving you time to find a replacement.
Make sure HR knows that this is not to get back to your management chain if you don't want it to get back to your management chain...
Make sure everything is ready before you talk to your boss.
I agree with the earlier poster who said let them know when you are ready to go.
Keep in mind that they may walk you out the door the minute after you tell them you want to retire.
With that being said...
Most companies have some kind of development plan structure in place for employees to give them room to grow. Initiate a development discussion with your employer and state that one of your development goals for yourself and the company for the year is to plan for retirement. (Where do you see yourself in a year? On a beach sipping margaritas.) This gives them a chance to either find a new hire to work with you on a transition, or an internal employee who might want to broaden their skillset and work with a mentor (you) for the next year or however long the transition is.
Mutually agree on a date to leave and invite them to hire you as a contractor or part-time employee if they need additional work done.
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
When you are ready to retire, give them two weeks notice. If they really need you, they'll find the amount of $$ that makes it worthwhile for you to stay on until they find a replacement. They get what they need, and you get properly paid for your rare skill (finally).
Figure out how you want to structure your next decade, and have someone you can trust reality-check your desires/plans; then have a friendly, honest discussion with your employer on how to manage this plan to your mutual satisfaction and benefit. (With current life expectancies and SocSec rules, you may still have a decade before retirement is the best option; YMMV...)
If you have any hesitation about having that conversation in the end, KEEP YOUR PLANS TO YOURSELF and establish some contingency plans based on your employer dumping you, because your instincts are warning you that the employer cannot be trusted to react well or deal fairly in this situation.
My 401k is providing me with a steady income that will exceed my needs for at least the next 15 years.
Have you been funding yours?
Old developers don't die, they just run away five minutes before their entire legacy codebase collapses spectacularly.
second - I wouldn't prematurely discuss retirement with them. Yes, it will take time for them to find a replacement...but I wouldn't discuss it with them if you're not willing to be let go immediately. (Just in case)
third - when you ARE ready...discuss. Offer to train replacement. Discuss a date when you're ready to leave. When you're ready to leave - offer a consulting contract (1099) to come back if necessary on a limited (expensive) engagement.
There's been a lot of good comments about giving them a relatively short i.e. three-month notification. However I would take this as an opportunity to set up a part-time work or consulting arrangement with your employer for another year or two. They get to keep corporate knowledge around and you get increased flexibility.
But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.
If they are so ready to stab you in the back (by firing you for planning your retirement) then why do you have any loyalty to them? Did I misunderstand this part?
Also, if they are this disloyal to employees, they may be planning on firing you anyway if you are close to vesting on any retirement benefits. I know a few people this has happened to. Hopefully your company is better than this.
Unless it's a toxic environment, talk it over and help lead a transition during your lame duck period. Many companies have special budget/HR provisions to hire successors to retirees before they leave and they're separate from the normal resignation procedure. Your boss may have an easier time replacing you as a retiree than if you simply resigned and will probably appreciate the things you do to ease his or her pain. Take charge of bringing that person up to speed.
There may be opportunities to come back part time when you find yourself getting bored. Keep in touch and don't burn bridges! People often think of retirees from their company differently than people that just left for somewhere else. Co-Worker Emeritus.
But always be prepared to be shown the door.
It all depends on your relationship with your manager and your trust/feel/vibe for your employer.
If you have a positive relationship and trust 3-6 months is a fairly safe window that minimizes your risks. If you are unusual you might talk about it a year or more out (I've had these discussions especially in the context of performance and development). If you are in a role where you have an individualized employment contract you might also have specific language and terms there.
If you are unsure you just wait. The challenge is firing you after discussing retirement is potentially retaliation but fighting especially at retirement time is hard. Damages are limited as your "future wages" are small. Also watch out if you are covered by binding arbitration causes - arbitrators have shameful record of siding with employers way more than the courts and even when they find for the employee providing smaller awards when they do.
Consider financial factors on timing. On the delay side like any departure also watch out for big large period (quarterly/annual) payouts - bonuses, stock vesting, 401k match, etc. If in doubt wait until your next chunk due before retirement is in the bank. What is the financial health of the company? Are there layoffs coming? Could you potentially pick up a "package" on the way out? Is there a sabbatical or other long period benefit you want to receive before you go?
On the accelerate side do you have a lot of accrued PTO/vacation to be paid out that is potentially at risk? Do you normally carry a large "float" of expenses on personal cards/$$?
Consider talking to a lawyer (and tax planner if you haven't). You may have employment agreements that cover you into retirement that may impact you especially if you plan to work on the side. Also an employment law lawyer can advise you on exactly how to bring up the topic without giving "constructive notice" (effectively the employer constitutes your inquiry as an official notice of termination of employment).
In the end - be careful and put yourself first. Many a person has had last minute retirement plans change due to unexpected shifts in financial circumstance. In a healthy organization you should be able to have this conversation well in advance - but unfortunately the window of places this type of constructive 2-way dialog is possible is shrinking. On the other hand if your skill is critical and amenable to remote and part time work you might also work out a mutually beneficial arrangement for some post-retirement income as consulting. Do you have friends or family you might refer in later (not for bonus but just for the mutual benefit of the friend and family plus company)?
In the end you will have to make a choice on risk of early notice and associated early termination against the desire to do the right thing and keep a good relationship with your former employer and co-workers.
"My lifestyle IS my retirement plan!"
I have learned the hard way to never give notice. In your case, where your retirement funds may be adversly impacted, this is doubly true.
Tell them the day after your 65th birthday that you are not coming back. You owe them nothing. They pay you for the labor you provide, and they would likely terminate you without notice should the need arise. With each payroll you are square with the house. No consideration beyond that should be given nor expected.
I am the penguin that codes in the night.
I've seen this a few times in my career, never anyone that reported to me but to my colleagues. It's challenging, because it can be tricky legally. I've seen where we all knew someone was going to retire, but she wouldn't announce it. Management can't really ask about it. So a year goes by.. nothing. We wanted to be able to plan around getting her replacement, but couldn't because we didn't know when she would announce it. Ideally you want the employee to bring it up so you can work out some kind of transition plan.
I've also seen it where someone announced her retirement date, then moved it out, then moved it out again. She was terrible, and we couldn't wait for her to leave. But we couldn't get rid of her. Then we got new management, and he basically pushed her to actually DO her job, which stressed her out, and she left rather quickly.
My initial thoughts are always to be nice, be open, and things will work out. But you never know when some asshat at a company will screw over the employee. Sometimes HR gets involved and when they do, there isn't much a manager can do about it. I've seen some minor decisions made by CEOs of business units get overturned by a simple HR rule. They even know that you can't fight the system. So my advice to anyone looking to retire is to look out for yourself first. Chances are they are aware of your pending retirement, and you can drop subtle hints without making anything official. Educate yourself on what is and isn't legal, what your HR policies are, and be wary of actually engaging anyone in HR. I've found that they really don't know what the H in HR stands for.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
If you are in a large corporation the answer is two weeks before you do it. Even if your boss is honorable, his boss might not be.
If you are in a small-medium company and know both your boss and his boss are honorable and loyal, then I would consider giving them six months notice.
But only if the culture is loyal.
If you do decide to talk to them, make it a bigger discussion than just when.
Talk about training your replacement, what kind of person would be a good fit. In particular talk about hiring from within - that would give you a full year to slowly train someone to take over your job.
It is always easier to fill a lower position than higher levels.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Give them as much time as you've seen them give people that they've laid off. Besides, its not like you're going to look for another job
It depends if you work in the large type of company where you have a formal retirement process or retirement plan.
Ideally, you will want to discuss the topic maybe 1 to 2 years in advance.
Make it about yourself, not about the company not meeting your objectives. You want to enjoy life, travel more, you're going to be a new grandparent...whatever.
Tell them that you are open to doing consulting of the current role (if you are indeed interested), if the need arises, following your departure, that way they don't feel pressure but at least you show good intentions.
However if you work in a highly oppressive environment where you think there is a risk of you being cut short earlier, than shorten the time. If there is a high likelihood of you being terminated for unjust cause without decent severance, than adjust your position. Basically, if the company you work for are full of dickheads, then act like one, otherwise if they are generally decent do the same.
I'm getting to be that age also, but haven't been in the position to give notice, yet. That said, in every place I've worked so far, if you give six months notice, they'll start looking for a replacement immediately, and find a reason to dump you as soon as they're confident of business continuance. Don't do that to yourself.
Consider also, that if you retire you might get some benefits that you wouldn't get if you were, for instance, fired. A big disadvantage to announcing that you're going to leave sometime in the next several months is that it gives the company that long to figure out how to get rid of you at minimum cost to the company.
Even if your boss is a good guy and wouldn't do that to you, there are probably people higher up that would see the minimal cost option as business as usual.
Keep in mind also that some companies don't want an employee continuing to work there who has announced his intention to leave, to reduce the risk of pilfering and sabotage. Often, you give two weeks notice and they ask you to leave right away, and pay you for the two weeks.
And finally, your boss knows how old you are. If he doesn't have a plan in place already, it's on him, not you.
So in conclusion: Don't tell anyone. Just do your job up until it's time to give two weeks notice. It's safer for you.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Old man dinosaur think's he is valuable and has realized that he has no retirement in American and is on slashdot asking what he should do.
How is that 401k treating you?
Your time is gonna come insolent millennial.
His life is far better than the shitty nuke fallout dystopia you'll be living in soon. Believe me.
We have a similar situation where I work.
We've got a 60-something guy who is the only person there who can do what he does, it's high ticket and it's something we need to keep in-house. The next most competent person is myself. I often work with him, either out of necessity or just to take some of the donkey work off him and keep him happy. Everyone knows he's not going to be doing what he does in 3 years (and he's already had 1 heart attack.)
If I had to step in to replace him I'd either need 6 months to a year of him taking time out to "formally" train me, or a month or 2 of very expensive external tuition (10's of thousands) followed ideally by another 2 years or so of actual experience.
Like I said, nobody's under any illusion that he's not going, and it's been talked about, but at some point in the next 12 months a decision is going to have to be made as to how we transition his role onto somebody else. I don't know what your work-place culture nor the nature of your work is, but if I assumed a similar setup as my own, then I'd want you to nominate a replacement, or at least outline a strategy to get someone else into the role and give me 2 years notice, even if only informally.
Not retirement, but I have TWICE had the very unpleasant experience of giving two weeks notice (actually more like 3 weeks) and was then fired the next morning..
Very fun to drive all the way in to work only to be told I'm fired and not being paid for day.
In both cases I mistakenly thought these friendly people I worked with and for, in once case for 8 months and in another 3 years would recognize my common courtesy in giving notice.
NOPE!
Look, since you are RETIRING..
You need to learn something about yourself and your place in the world.
You are one of the very few non-rich people who can say 'Fuck it!'.
You don't need to care about your reputation, or future jobs. 'Fuck it!'
Repeat after me;
'Fuck it!'
This will be some of the most fun and least stress you will have in your whole adult life.
Boss: "I know you have a vacation planned but my boss fucked up so now we need you to fix the problem'
You: 'Nope, I'm taking my vacation'
Boss: 'What if I fire you?'
You: 'Fuck it!'
Boss: 'We need everyone in the office at 4:00 AM for a pointless call with a shitty manager in Europe.'
You: 'No, I'll be in at my usual time. If you need me they can reschedule.'
Boss: 'What if I fire you?'
You: 'Fuck it!'
Boss: ' I need you do do pointless something, something, something'
You: 'Fuck it!'
SOOOOOO Fun. I wish I was not probably going to work until I die..
I do have non-personal experience with a person who was retiring but the company did not have a replacement.
They basically told them they were 'ready to retire today, but let me know how I can help the transition'.
In the end they got full pay for a year and only had to come into the office 2 afternoons a week until they hired a new person and got them trained. I think they got a years salary for about 5 months of 2 half days a week.
My guess is that if you are as important as you say, if you wait until the last day you WANT to work, you might have the option to call the shots during the transition, make a little money, and keep your work friends.
If they play nice, you can make a plan and work for them for another few months.
Or, you might end up with a surprise like mine and be frog marched out the front door by security.
Either way, you keep your personal life and future plans to yourself.
If you're not contracted how much notice would they give you if they were going to terminate you? Do you think they lie awake at night worrying about what might happen to you and your family if they laid you off? It's different if there is loyalty to you as an employee. For an employer who treated me like I was valuable and not a replaceable battery I would give them at least 6 months. But if they consider you to be easily replaceable there's no reason to go out of your way.
I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
Once your retirement is planned and you are really sure about accepting a pay cut for reduced hours, let them know and offer to stay as long as they need you to find replacement. Offer to train the replacement, and also to come in part time sliding down from 5 days a week to 4, and then 3 etc.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Most of the colleagues I've seen retire kept their cards close and then retired suddenly due to some external trigger: the end of a project, departure of their boss, an odious policy change or the like. The attitude was, I'll keep working until the next thing happens that annoys me, then I'm gone.
If that is how things go at your company, you're in a bad company.
If you're not in a bad company and your boss isn't a dick, then you're doing him/her a favor to start talking about how to pass on your knowledge and experience to colleagues.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Tell them two weeks before. If they are smart, they will have arranged something longer term along the lines of consulting for you with you before. Or they will have arranged for a definite end-date, but they will assure your continued employment before. If they are not smart, do not depend on them being honorable.
You have to tell them two weeks before, everything else is their problem. Of course, they may still make you an offer for more time when you give them that notice, but you should only accept that if it is substantially better than your current conditions.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Tacitus in his historical and ethnographic work 'Germania' discussed customs of the Ancient Aryan Peoples.
Retirement came from fighting the Romans to west or savage slavic tribes to the east. And by retirement I mean 'death'. He doesn't mention any prior discussion.
I hope this has proved helpful.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Wait until you are really ready to go (don't talk about it before then), then talk to your boss and tell him/her you're ready to retire but are flexible to the exact timing up to some limit (max 6 months, say).
My employer, a university in Utah, wanted a year's notice. I gave them six months notice and they did almost nothing before I actually left. From the point that I retired to the point that they had my replacement selected and he started, it was fourteen months. Frankly, I wouldn't give an employer more notice than you wanted to give. At the university where I worked the minimum notice was one month, which is what I should have done.
When you retire you are cutting ties with your employer and it is frankly up to them to take care of themselves. Giving too much notice can just make the time you spend there miserable. You're a lame duck and everyone knows it.
Maybe you should have a look at how the French handled this at the end of the 18th century.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Don't say anything unless you are prepared being let go immediately. I gave my company 4 months notice for the same reason and my company behaved just fine. But you don't _owe_ them that and you can be sure they don't feel like they _owe_ you neither. Be in a position where it doesn't matter whether they let you go immediately or play nice. Where you'll still be ok.
Pretty sure the average /.er is around his age, probably older.
Anyway, midway through your last project is usually the best time.
We're not all young here at Slashdot; I'm another old fart thinking ahead myself.
When was the last time a company thought of *you* first and showed you some loyalty? *crickets*
If you're like most workers with decades under their belts you've been laid off at least once. Let's face it, you got no warning most likely and found yourself looking for a job the next day.
Give 'em their 2 weeks (which by the way isn't written anywhere) and offer to work part time. You get some time to ease into retirement, they get a transition period to find a replacement. Mutually beneficial.
Well OF COURSE you want to let them know you are retiring with plenty of notice. How else will you get the surprise cake in the conference room with all your co-workers awkwardly standing around the table doing a fake applause at your accomplishments?
Bring up the possibility of your departure and they might realize their best strategy is to start the search now and when they find the right person kick you out the door. Or they bring in someone much cheaper and direct you to train your replacement.
Stop worrying about what happens to the company if you get hit by a bus or retire, you aren't being paid to solve their management problems. So do your job and retire when you want, with two weeks notice. If they are real dummies and don't plan ahead you can offer to come back as a contractors for 10-20 hours a week at 4x your current salary on a per hour basis.
You know your company and your boss better than us. The notice period really depends on your company culture. The last time I moved jobs (not retired, but took a new job) I gave about 8 weeks of notice because I was valuable to my employer, I knew they needed me and weren't going to lay me off/fire me, and I wanted to be as fair to them as possible.
The last time someone retired from my current company, he gave about 4 months of notice, his last day is tomorrow, the company threw a huge party for him, and the owner bought him a $20k Rolex (the retiring person was NOT an executive).
If your company is run by petty people, then a short notice period make sense. If it is run by people who are reasonable and who value their employees, be fair to the company and management and give them a nice long runway to transition.
So, if you expect an upcoming raise or a bonus, that might be a reason to wait.
(particularly if you have a pension plan where your payout is proportional to your salary at retirement! But those are pretty uncommon these days.)
See subject: Quote the most successful self-made man I know my brother a field grade officer & gentleman in the military? IT TAKES BALLS!
* Haven't HAD to work in a decade++ for others!
I do my own business!
Up front it cost me (initial mistakes too) & cost 10's of 1,000's in upkeep but I no longer listen to "Do you like your job?"
It's as bad as welfare/UBI being dependent on employers treating you like an easily disposed replaceable asset (looking to replace you w/ cheap labor!
American dream the founding fathers intended!
APK
P.S.=> Can't say "I did it ALL myself"! GREAT teachers, coworkers, family & friends in life here from academia, athletics in NCAA & workplace w/ God's help!
Freed the most important things - MY time (all mine) & health (less stress)!
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You found your job in 2012, which was the peak of the Great Recession. It took six months for your employer to find you then but how long would it take now? I was job hunting then too, and for the job I now have it was five months between my application and my first day of work. Back then nobody wanted to hire and the ridiculous job descriptions were proof of it: a dozen disparate mandatory requirements followed by another dozen disparate "preferred" qualifications that in reality you had to have >90% of to get so much as a phone interview. The term at the time was "purple squirrel," all companies were searching for the absolute perfect match that did not exist, such was their reluctance to hire. These days I look through job postings once or twice a month; I have a good job that I like but the location is not the greatest. Employers aren't reluctant to hire now and the job postings show it. The long lists are gone, down to 4-6 requirements and even fewer preferred qualifications. Not only that the whole list is something that someone could actually have achieved, and not in a 30 year career when they want 5 years of experience either. If you tell your employer about retirement years in advance they'll start thinking about replacing you years in advance--and they'll do it too.
The obligatory troll every self-respecting story must have is found!
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Whenever you want. Of course you should expect to be escorted out by a friendly security guard. Your personal effects will be mailed to you. :)
We have a number of people in our office that are semi-retired-- usually either working as 1099 independent contractors (often part time), but a couple take a few 1-3 month sabbaticals every so often, and one just works part time as an employee. It works for us, and generally works for them-- although I do see them handling stress poorly as deadlines come which worries me.
Me, I will provide 12-months notice. I can be replaced in a month pretty easily IMO, but as an owner of the company I do have some specific obligations. My partners will likely screw me over, but at least I already stole the red swingline.
Executive summary of other responses:
1. Screw them. They would you.
2. Be nice to them (at some risk)
I just retired from decades at one company, now a Fortune 1000. There is enormous technical debt on my product. And we were totally understaffed.
I gave one year's notice, knowing I was a key employee. They were so desperate for me to continue that I wasn't worried they'd fire me.
At the one year mark, I began to consult to them for 20 hours/week, paid hourly, making the same amount in 20 hours I'd formerly been making at 60+ hours/week.
A year later (now the 2 year mark), I realized I didn't want to be responsible for anything, so I announced I was gone in one week, available for 3 weeks for stop ship bugs that might come up on an impending release. They convinced me to stay hourly. I told them I would, but I wouldn't program, only coach, do walk-throughs of the code, and answer questions on the product.
The guy they hired as an understudy two years ago got too busy on other projects and spent less than a week with me in the past two years.
So my former employer is still desperate. I've told my boss and colleagues that one day soon, without warning, I'll ship my computer back to them and will no longer be available. They support that 100%, but of course prefer me to stay.
I now work about 20 hours/month. It pays for toys.
My retirement age is 71.
Assuming they're a good company with people you like, you can be nice about it while doing the best thing for yourself.
Don't mention it until you're ready to walk. When you are ready, give something reasonable like a month. Make it clear you're willing to extend that period out if they desire, if they make it worth your while. A guaranteed bonus for staying longer, maybe some guaranteed minimum commit contract hours to help with transition training or something.
You don't owe any employer anything and you've put in your time. If you're ready to walk away don't let your good nature allow people to take advantage of you.
Employees being single points of failure is a business risk issue. It's up to the company to mitigate that risk, not the employees. Our obligation ends at staying professional; keeping documentation current, cross training when required etc.
If so, there's no reason to assume that they would mistreat you because you're planning your retirement.
If you've been disrespected and treated like shit, filling the position is a corporate problem; let them solve that in two weeks.
> This will allow him to plan a cautious transition. He will want the time to do it gradually rather than all at once. Trust me, your boss will love the idea of giving the new guy time to master each piece of the job before taking on the next one. Orderly transitions are worth the money.
All true and good. I'll add that where I worked the person leaving did a lot of the transition planning and that worked well because they were effectively TELLING their boss and everyone "here's what needs to be done before I go, and how long it will take". Looking at it in reverse "here's a ton of stuff that won't get done, and will cause problems, if you don't keep me until July."
So we'd have a rough schedule:
Over the next few weeks I'll document the processes for X, Y, and Z, and all admin passwords needed and other access information, etc.
Next month I'll show Bob how to do A, B, and C.
Then I'll let Bob do it himself (asking me questions as needed) and I'll check his work, clarifying any issues. We can then discuss whether it appears that Bob will be able to take over these tasks, or if someone else is needed to help.
In February we'll finish up the project I've been leading for the last year, etc. Bob will need a backup in case something happens to him, so in March Bob and I will walk through the processes with Sue, so she is also familiar with them. February and March I'll bring Bob into the monthly meeting with Very Important Client so they can meet him, and he can see how we conduct that monthly meeting.
The flip side of that is you're telling the boss "if I leave today, nobody will know how to do X, Y and Z, or A, B, and C."
At my last job, retirements were planned a couple YEARS in advance. That made for smooth transitions. When I left for a new job, I started planning an orderly transition as soon as I had a good interview, more than three weeks before my last day.
Is it your your responsibility to do management's job for them? It's their job to have enough people to the job and to cover for you when you go on vacation or get ill. It's their job to read the writing on the wall and to consider that at your age you might want to retire or God forbid, you could get a chronic illness. I wouldn't give any more than a 3 month notice.
I'm exactly 12 months from pension age and have been with my employer for 5 years, so I think I can relate. When I was being interviewed for my position (sysadmin) I was asked my short, medium and long term goals. I made it quite clear that my long term goal has always been to retire.
I have discussed this many times with my employer and have also indicated that I hay or may not retire at pension age but if I choose to continue to work it would not be on a full time basis. As a transition step I will be reducing my hours a bit next year by working a 9 day fortnight (only work every second Friday).
I can't say whether my employer is more understanding than others or not but we both know and understand the situation and I don't feel my job is threatened in any way. Equally, they know I will give them plenty of notice when I finally make my decision about when to retire. Probably 3 to 6 months.
After that, use your best judgement.
You really won't be missed as much as you think. Most people are not in positions that are so crucial that everything falls apart when you do leave. And for those who are, whose fault is that? If your leaving caused chaos, then the company is not in a very good position to begin with. Most times your desk will be reassigned. Your phone number will be given to someone else, your email will be erased, and your key card will no longer work. In a few years when you walk through the door, no one will know or care who you are. The person most in need of preparation for your retirement is yourself. If you can't wait to get out of there, ten get out of there. If you have a good relationship with everyone, it makes some sense to give some notice. But the Bottom Line here is that you need to do what is best for you and not overly concern yourself with the company because they are likely not to care much less than you.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
I'd just keep working until you are 'ready to retire' and THEN raise the subject that you'd like to retire.
Given your attitude of wanting to help the company transition; I'd go into it with the mindset that once you are 'ready to retire' that you still plan to be available for 3-6 months beyond that to transition out, help train a replacement, perhaps part time.
Many people in your type of situation transition to a part time / consulting role for several months or even years after 'retiring'. And, if they replace you in 14 days and don't want you around... that's fine, you were 'ready to retire' anyway.
Working for a state government, it's not unusual for folks to talk openly about their retirement plans a few years in advance. I just had one of my staff retire; he provided the necessary paperwork 8 months before the date, and began training his interim replacement 2-3 months before he left. It was very orderly, which I appreciated. But it's also in state law that a permanent state employee can't be exited or summarily dismissed without going through a progressive discipline process; private sector mileage may vary.
You're the best judge of how your bosses will react to this situation. I know I would appreciate the heads up and the time to train your replacement, but that's me. Others might want to rush you out the door, or view you ask a risk to walk at any given moment. How has your management reacted to similar situations in the past? How comfortable are you talking about things like this with your boss? Or his/her boss, and on up the chain?
If you're unsure of how this will be greeted but still want to "do the right thing for the company", one thing you can do now is document the crap out of what you're doing. Put down every little trick or shortcut you've discovered, every nuance to the job, every piece of institutional knowledge you can think of. Then, talk to them, and if they decide to show you the door, you can rest easy in your retirement that you treated them better than they treated you.
I'm 33 and have 40k in it and at the rate I'm contributing ill be able to retire at 60 and have enough to live till 80. Not including any SSI. I'll start contributing more in another year or so when i get the promotion.
So its doing pretty decent.
Are you not funding yours? I feel that is probably a mistake on your part slugger.
I'm not quite there yet, but I strong recommend against saying anything until you are ready and able to discontinue employment in 2 weeks. If they ask for you to stay around longer, then great, but you have to be prepared for it to end immediately, because that could happen for any number of reasons.
And that's your answer right there. If your employer valued you, you would have been given a contract with a longer notice time, particularly given how long you have been there. There is a reason that the notice time is the same for employer and employee.
If the employer weren't angling for a position of power over you, you would not even need to think about this problem. If you have even the slightest doubt about getting dismissed early, don't hand in your notice early. Maybe he'll think twice about keeping the next important employee on a "we can throw you out at two weeks notice" contract.
Tell them you have a better offer and see if they want to keep you. Blow the top out of the salary range.. then quit.. and send them pictures from the beach..
I would not say: "I plan to retire in 2 years" or "on X date."
This could be considered giving notice. At many companies they can then terminate your employment at any time after you have given notice. You won't be eligible for severance, etc because you essentially quit.
Perhaps phrase it in such a way that gives them a heads up such as " I am considering retirement in X year or something."
Either way if there is a reduction in force expect to be the first name on the list, even if it is sooner than you were planning. You likely have a higher salary than most and you will essentially have volunteered. Layoffs are hard and even the nicest manager will see it as letting you retire early. If it is between that and letting go someone younger, cheaper, and likely to stay longer it will be a slam dunk.
Seems like most people are overthinking this a bit... Once you're ready to retire, the exact date you stop working isn't very relevant.
My plan would be:
- Wait till the day I'm totally ready to walk out the door
- Walk into my bosses office and say, "Hey boss, I'm ready to retire. How long do you want me to stick around?"
Then it doesn't really matter what their reaction is.
If you're a programmer flash a 'subliminal message that you are retiring on the company intranet
"in serious hurt if one of us were hit by a truck"
Kind of goes without saying, but is better than being serious dead.
I know a CEO (we fly together weekly) that wrote in his contract that he can use all his vacation time at the same time. That said, he gave 12 months notice, and said that he's going to use his 6 months of saved PTO in a row, so he goes on vacation in May, comes back for a week in November, and then retires. Pretty sweet deal!
Or his buddies the Russians, at the beginning of the 20th.
You still get work while you trundle around and tell all the secretaries how to modify their host files?
Find a time when you're ready to go, but willing to stay longer if needed. Give notice and advise your employer you're willing to stay anywhere from two weeks to three months, and see how they react. You get to avoid being let go before you're ready to retire, they get an opportunity to hire and have you train a replacement.
The safest course is to decide if there is a sufficient gap between when you are 'able' to retire and when you 'want' to get out the door.
If you can save the announcement until you are safe, then you are protected against any capricious management decisions, and still able to provide for an orderly transition.
On the other hand, how much notice would -they- give you, if your services were being outsourced?
Somehow, the old "two weeks notice" rule just doesn't apply, but too often giving 6 months notice turns into working far less.
Having learned from my peers, I plan to give 3 months notice, but be mentally prepared to be escorted out the door the same day.
When you are there to work then act and represent that you are there to work. When you are no longer willing to work, then don't. Have they offered you a stake in the business? No? Then you are just an employee. No sense in acting like you have an interest in the company when in fact you do not.
If you are that crucial, then the company can make offers to get you interested in working again. If the offers are not enticing, then decline.
Keep it simple. You are likely just fooling yourself otherwise.
If they don't already know it's coming they're complete idiots, if they haven't realized they are going to need to replace you either they are idiots or you're not terribly valuable moving forward; and if they haven't already approached you, you don't owe them more than 2 weeks notice.
Keep the bridges intact though. My grandpa's comfortable retirement is funded more by the short-term consulting he does than the 40 years of retirement savings he built.
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
2-3 months is more then enough to braindump everything of high complexity to your peers even if they will not find a new hire to replace you right away.
Give them the option to hire you as a consultant if they need you in the first several months of retirement.
As an employer, may I suggest that an open dialogue is required. Maybe a pre-emptive offer to wind down your time over a 2-3 year period as part of a succession plan, and an offer to use that time to train the younger staff.
If you're on good terms with your employer and trust them...give plenty of notice. They'll be grateful and the transition will be less stressful for you too.
If you're on bad terms with your employer and don't trust them...give plenty of notice. If they fire you prior to your departure date, the age-discrimenation suit will fund a nice retirement.
As for getting fired for announcing your retirement, any company that does this is (a) stupid and (b) probably breaking the law. I've known several people that retired from my company and my wife's school district and none were treated like that.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
This is the fun part of Slashdot. Dumb fuckers who don't know what they are talking about giving advice like they know what they are talking about.
There is a technical term for such people: "anonymous cowards".
Like you.
We just got three years added to our pension age due to the enormous cost of mass immigration... Which they say we need to pay for our pensions....
I worked at a mechanical engineering/manufacturing company that was bought by a larger company with the intention of moving production to Nogales Mexico and engineering to Nogales Arizona. We were given 12 month notices of layoffs, with $20K bonuses if we stayed the entire 12 months to help the transition.
I'd give no notice. Just quit one day. Employers do the same shit to us. Why should employees treat employers any better than they are treated?
I'm seeing a lot of "give them two weeks notice or you'll get screwed" type posts.
I just watched someone senior and technical (and valuable) do a multi-year transition into retirement. He was not the kind of guy to give only 2 weeks notice, but also his management was not the type to screw him over. Everyone won. It was really neat to be near such a smooth/amiacable changing of the guard.
There are surely plenty of cases where people get screwed.
Gauge how valuable you really are...and how much mutual respect/trust exists in the employment relationship. Act accordingly.
A few posts seem to strike a safe balance: Give notice when you're willing/able to be gone (not before) but be willing to stick around for transition. I assume the fellow in the case I'm familiar with would have been more than OK (financially) leaving years earlier (so technically gave notice when ready to leave), but the transition happened because it was mutually-beneficial. He was able to ease into retirement (longer and more-frequent vacations, maybe shorter work weeks) and they were able to ease into not having him around. Neither party tried to screw the other in any way.
The right time is 2 weeks before.
You don't owe them anything .
As someone who recently retired, let me offer my opinion.
You know the history of your employer. If there is a chance that they will do something that will adversely affect you as soon as they get your notice, give only as much notice as required in any policy manual, contract, etc.
However, many employers aren't so shitty that they are going to do something like this. In that case, give them as much notice as is reasonable. One to three months is pretty good. I would not give notice more than six months in advance. However, informal conversations about future plans are probably OK.
In my case, I had already made succession plans and had written documents that covered how to do certain tasks, who to call for certain issues, etc. Once you give your notice you need to kick this into high gear.
My retirement was unexpected because I stumbled into a better offer from another employer. I gave my former employer just over a month's notice. However, I did also let my former employer know that I would be willing to help them with the transition, and would even consult if necessary to get them through the transition. We are six months from my retirement and they still have not found a replacement and I am still fielding calls/emails from them.
If you have a pension, defined benefit plan, etc. you should talk with the pension plan folks to determine how much notice you have to give them before your benefits start should you be dependent on those benefits. Even if you start another job it may be weeks before you get your first check and you don't want to wipe out your savings trying to pay the bills till things start. Don't forget your COBRA benefits, life insurance, etc. factored into your plans. All those costs add up.
Best of luck. Nothing felt as good as when I got my first retirement check and I knew I was going to get one of those every month for the rest of my life.
I gave my employer 4 1/2 months notice, but there are some caveats. 1) I trusted my boss who fully understood my importance to the organization. 2) His new boss I didn't trust as much though I've known him a few years. He just go promoted by a Trumpian executive and was eager to please. That guy's boss (the Trumpian) I did not trust a lick. He was fairly new and may not have understood or appreciated what I did. He thought he invented everything himself. 3) However, our HR department bends over backwards to avoid lawsuits and bad publicity so he'd have a problem if he didn't honor my notice. 4) In any case, when I gave my notice I was prepared financially to leave right then. I was better off leaving on my preferred date, but I knew it would not be a disaster if I left right then. They fully honored my date and I worked with a number of folks assigned to take on my work. All of the bosses in the chain appreciated the heads up and my willingness to organize and prune my documentation and work with the people who would inherit my work. The company you are retiring from probably cares about its image and does not want you bad mouthing them once you leave. You are doing them a favor after all. Notice is rarely mandatory.
Very often, people confuse simple with simplistic. The nuance is lost on most. - Clement Mok
I was in a similar situation. I spent some time over a period of a couple of years making sure that every possible process was documented. When the time came for me to leave, I gave them a few weeks notice and it all turned out fine. I did get two phone calls in the weeks after I left, but that was it.
"Almost every wise saying has an opposite one, no less wise, to balance it." - George Santayana
one suggestion... decide when you're comfortable retiring and let them know at that time, giving them the 6 months (or whatever you decide) notice. should they decide that it's time for your retirement right then, you haven't lost anything and the onus is on them for now putting themselves in a bind.
Be honest and say you want to retire. And give a time frame. What a sensible employer will do is negotiate a change over period where a new person to the role is trained and information passed on.
Had a similar situation where an engineer was retiring, who had basically designed all the electronics in all our products. Did the above, hired a good engineer and planned a 6 months cross training period. We in the end only got 3 months as the guy decided to retire even earlier, but those 3 months were invaluable.
I'm from Europe and I retired at my 57th birthday, just like everybody else around here,and my boss knew the exact day for the last 40 years and I get 5/6th of my last paycheck as pension.
I would have had to give notice if I _didn't_ want to retire at 57, until my 60th birthday, but I wouldn't have gotten a cent more pension, that's why only people with a house dragon as wife chose that option.
.
I'd start with HR 3 months before leave date. You need to get URLs and passwords for all your accounts that are auto-linked now
The most important thing, in the end, is that you stay you.
It sounds like you have some pride in the fact that you do the right thing.
It seems like you are not confused as to what the right thing to do is, just, "Should you do the right thing this time".
The answer to that is yes. You should always do the right thing.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Two weeks. Your employer doesn't give a fuck about you.
I knew that I would retire the year before I actually retired. The normal notice for a person in my position was 2 weeks. I intended to give a 2-4 week notice. The company started layoffs during the year that I planned to retire and "my" department was affected. I gave notice that was 2 months in advance in hopes that another employee would be spared the layoff. My supervisor liked me and didn't take any actions against. I liked my co-workers and didn't want to hose them. The company as a whole treated me well. For me, it worked out. YMMV!
... and get the fuck out of there.
Provide telephone (not email) support for two weeks after, then cut the cord.
Don't ever go back.
Don't ever look back.
Don't connect with former bosses or coworkers on social media.
Look forward and do the shit you like to do.
You'll love it.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I am an employer. I have a couple of folks in your situation. The best bet is to be transparent and to collaborate on your safe and gradual
exit strategy. This will be best for all parties.
I assume you have a good relationship with your peers and management in your workplace. If you work in a toxic place, then I don't know how to help you.
If you are on good terms with everyone, just book a meeting and discuss your retirement objectives. Work out a plan collatoratively. Help them find
someone new to do the work. Consider reducing the number of work days from 5 to 4 or 3 per week (with commensurate reduction in pay). An abrupt
retirement may not be the best thing for your own mental or physical health, and may not be the easiest transition for your employer either - so a
gradual phase out could be a good compromise. (I have someone doing just that right now).
Don't take the "stick it to the man" comments here too seriously - Slashdot caters to a very biased demographic. Be professional, respectful and
helpful, and more than likely that's what you'll get in return.
If you're worried that they'll let you go early if you give them six months notice, why do you care what happens to them if you only give two weeks?
A coworker in a similar position gave a year's notice, and we were almost ready when he finally left.
I'm dying to get a break...
Are you interested in training me over the next two or three years?
Jeez, what happened to /. that we are having a lengthy discussion about retiring ? Having said that (and I am 'only' in my 50's) I think most of us can out think and out program the kids at work nowadays.
Do not retire until you drop dead. Serioisly, there is no life outside job. You will be bored to death if you retire.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
who is going to pay your bills?
Pick a date you are good with being done, or shown the door, and don't tell them until then. At that point, give them a 6 month notice, if it suits you, but expect they won't have a replacement ready for you to do knowledge transfer or even hired. That is their problem, not yours. You only problem is not tipping your hand until you are ready to be retired (or canned, should a stupid manager feel you aren't necessary).
Any manager worth their weight should have a general idea of when you are close to retirement. I have the personnel files, and I know what official age you are set, the only thing that is the X factor is the amount of money you've saved up, and if you are waiting for a spouse to retire as well. My employees started telling me unofficially that they planned to retire within a year or so, and about 6 months out, they told me in writing what day they were looking to do it. It gave me time to put my plans together and make sure they had a good transition from their normal workload to nothing over that amount of time. It also let me put the plans in motion to hire replacements and ge them up to speed.
Less than 6 months will put more strain on the team. The larger the team, the less impact. If you care about those things (you do usually work with people you at least care about a little), then give more time. If you don't care, usually the worst laws in the US require only a few weeks notice.
I've heard of stories that people terminate people who are set to retire early, but I've never found a real case of that happening. If you've made it that far, and you give them a reasonable timeline (6 months), most people will go into the "wait it out" mode if they were planning on terminating you anyway.
Retire with two weeks notice and offer being pulled back as a contractor during the transition.
I've seen it done several times. It gives the employer a way out of a hole with time to hire a replacement and the retiring employee doesn't feel bad about training his or her replacement. It gives the retiree a soft landing (E.G. 50% work for a while).
It will end fairly soon because the employer is financially motivated to stop paying the contractor fees.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
If you're retiring and you have the financial means to take care of yourself, you can retire any way you like. You've achieved freedom and it's time to exercise that freedom ASAP because you're not getting any younger.
The only reason that I would consider the employer is in the situation whereby how you retire might affect someone in your social circle that you genuinely care about their well-being. Retire in any fashion you deem makes sense based on your own values and considerations. You don't owe your employer ANYTHING.
We'll make great pets
you should definitely have everything you need from them (financially, health care, etc) in hand before discussing. assume they will ask you to leave immediately. if they don't and you are able to give them the time, I think it is a classy move to help them out. but that should not mean do a bunch of crap you don't want to do (like perhaps onerous documentation). you could offer to be a consultant for a time if they need to use you.
To begin with, I was planning to retire next year after my 65th birthday and the boss was okay with that. Then he comes back and says that as long as I keep working he will pay for my Medicare supplement insurance. So I agreed to work full time until I'm 66.
After that I can work for the company part time doing some of the easier jobs. It's something to keep me busy and earn some extra money. The boss already gives me all the easy jobs we have available, so it's not really going to be much different except I'll be working about 6 months a year and they'll be months of my choosing.
By March 2019 I will be working part time, living in a house that's paid off, and enjoying much more time at home working in the garden. Social Security + 401K + part time income = something I can enjoy.
I retired three years ago from a major computer corporation. The decision was made December to leave in July when a batch of options vested. I gave myself a some time to be "really sure" and then unofficially told my manager of my plans in January. I felt comfortable doing this because he was a good person with whom I'd built up a number of years of mutual trust. Note that the higher management and HR department were not generally considered very nice people. I didn't officially pull the plug I was sure they couldn't screw me out of the stock.
The good thing about about telling immediate management is that you can work with him to transition your work to other people and leave with a clean desk and conscience. I still feel good about doing that way.
However, if he'd been a rat bastard I would have kept it quiet until there was nothing he could do to me and then left without a backwards glance.
I don't mean it like that.
I'm a business owner. About five years ago, my senior employee and I split. Lifestyles changed, we went in different ways.
He felt as you do. He didn't want to leave me stranded. So he offered to keep working on one major project that was his baby. I let him because, well, it was his baby and I didn't want to suddenly take it away from him.
After about three months, we sat down and he said "you know, at some point, you're going to need to do it without me". I of course said "I was just waiting for you to be ready to give it up. today's the day".
The truth is, I'm a business owner. I can deal with whatever comes. I didn't rest my entire business on his shoulders. I'm the business owner. So, plus or minus a short bit of shuffling or suffering, I can handle it without him.
Your employer is the same way, I promise. They didn't rest the entire business, and their livelihood, and their family's mortgage, and everyone else who works there, all on your shoulders. They either have a backup plan in case you leave (or that truck thing), or they plan to figure out when it happens, or maybe they just plan to drop that client/project altogether.
Every business owner has a succession plan, and an emergency plan, good or bad, stated or secret, obvious or hidden. Their business is not your responsibility. If it were, you'd have equity. . . and a requirement of sufficient notice in a written agreement.
Do what works for you. Be nice about it. Tell them your intentions. Don't worry about hurting them. They won't get hurt.
It's just business. I promise.
Gosh, when I got to 60 I pretty much was doing what I wanted to do. Apparently ? you're life hasn't been as fortunate as mine. So, you "want" to be a nice guy, but you don't want to get screwed. OK, I understand that. What I don't understand is why what your old (if you call an employer of 5 years old) employer does matters to you. You're not going to suddenly add 25% to your savings are you? How about 10%? So, why does the date of your retirement matter so much? Sounds to me its a control issue. Poor baby! You'll learn (since you haven't yet, apparently) that life is full of times when you're just NOT in control. In this case, you have the control over when you announce your retirement but not what their response will be. Gosh, like that's NOT always the case? You can control other's reactions? I don't think so. My advice: let it go. (You'll have to anyway, it's retirement, not a vacation). If you're not ready to let it go, you're not ready to retire. When you're ready, then tell your employer and work out a plan that meets both your and their needs and expectations. Its called an adult-adult transaction. You seem to believe that you will know way ahead of time how you will feel (assuming finances or Social Security (62) or Medicare (65) aren't huge considerations) 6 or more months from now. Good luck with that. It never worked for me. I have enough trouble figuring out how I feel now, let alone guessing where I'll be in 6 months or a year. Things change, Man plans and the gods laugh, etc. My advice is when you're ready, then pull the plug. (but believing you're in control is delusional)
Treat them as you'd hope and expect they'd treat you. Remember that you're dealing with your coworkers not just the company.
If you don't really care about the company or coworkers, or if you're easily replaceable, give standard notice. If nobody's noticed that you're creeping up on retirement, not your problem.
If you're a small cog in a big machine but you're in a great group, discuss it informally with your boss so it's not a surprise and so you're not going to be the key irreplaceable person on a project when the time comes. HR really only needs to know when they get a request from your boss to hire another person - and ideally that person isn't really YOUR replacement but a replacement for someone else in your department who became your replacement. Albert trains Bob, then retires. Bob takes on Albert's role, and Charlie gets hired for Bob's old role. Bob's still around to train Charlie as needed.
If you're not really sure but you have some flexibility and can stick around for a little while, tell them at a point where you're ready to leave but willing to stay - if there's an unwritten policy of walking you out the door, that's fine. If they'd like you to stay for a few months while they find another qualified person and make sure that person's comfortable and will stay, that's fine too.
Also bear in mind that there are some tipoffs for the company - for example, are you going to stay on the company health plan after you're eligible for Medicare? That's something you'll NEED to talk about with HR because the insurance coverage may not actually allow it. There may also be things that you can only sign up for during your first few months of Medicare eligibility or coverage unless you're willing to wait up to a year for another enrollment period.
fencepost
just a little off
I wasn't getting ready to retire, but move. I gave 9 months notice, then kept open dialog with my employer. They were extremely grateful to have the headsup warning (as I'm a key employee), and actually when it finally came time for me to leave, they said "oh, you think you're leaving?"
Long story short, I now work from home with a really sweet job where they pay me to fly back to work occasionally (and hang out with my family). I work out of my home the rest of the time where I make good wages from a wealthy job region and live in a low-cost of living area. Imagine living in northern CA but making Silicon Valley wages. I don't even pay to visit my family.
I made this decision because:
1) I knew I was a key employee, and the chance that they would actually want me gone was very low AND
2) I trusted them. I worked for a reasonably small company that knew and valued their employees and treated them well.
If either #1 or #2 weren't true, I probably would have only provided a 2 week notice. If they had actually laid me off when I first gave notice, it would have royally screwed up my finances at the time.
I know there's a lot of cynical (and for good reason) people here who said that business is just out for its own interest and you need to watch your own, but I've found that being consistently generous, caring, and selfless has actually gotten me quite far in life. I work for companies who treat me as a person, and I give them my all in return. Given it's the type of person I want to be and the one I feel God is calling me to be, I have no plans to change. It's one of the reasons I refused to work for a behemoth company out of college.
The best safe plan I've heard, if you're willing to work a little extra, is to wait until you're ready to retire, give them 2 weeks notice and let them know you'd be willing to stay around for 6-9 months to help crosstrain. That way, you either retire when you want or you work a little extra and have a little extra at retirement.
Good luck and enjoy your retirement!
-=Lothsahn=-
Make sure all your stuff is wrapped up and documented such that a new guy can take it and get up to speed quickly. Dot your T's and cross your I's but DEFINITELY let them know a month or two (or three) in advance -- set a deadline so they can't just look at it as a "future" thing.
It has to be soon enough that they take action to get a replacement, but long enough that you don't feel you're leaving them in the lurch. When I went I made sure all my fixes were tested and documented and delivered to source control and that everyone on my team knew what I had been working on just in case something came back that needed tweaking.
Also make sure they can get hold of you if they need you. It doesn't hurt to provide some free consult if they were good to you. But if you do your resource closure properly you shouldn't have to.
"The usual notice time is two weeks"
From where I'm standing, he looks more successful than you. Doctor, heal thyself.
Consider a likely answer, and don't worry about giving a much longer notice. The usual practice in the corporate world is kind of depressing. On the other hand, say you are working in a family style business that would likely share plans with you far in advance. Then you can do likewise, and perhaps they will sometimes call you for a consultation and a chance to earn some extra cash after official retirement.
Before you say anything to your employer make sure you have enough money put away that you can walk out the door if they decide not to retain you. I would also put out some feelers to other places about part time contract work. Your current employer might give you that option but they might not. If they don't you have something to fall back on.
As others have noted, going from 40 hours a week to 0 hours a week is a big change. It's not just about money it's about having a routine, workplace friendships, having goals and accomplishments, etc. Maybe you can find all of those things outside the workplace and if you can then God bless you. But for some there might be an empty feeling. Tapering down to 15-20 hours a week might be good. Or even taking full time contract positions for 3 months and then take 3 months off. Lots of options.
I'm kind of in the camp where if your employer treated you right then you should give them some notice when you retire. It doesn't have to be a whole year but maybe 3-6 months would feel right. If it where me I would give them enough notice to train a replacement. If they decide not to retain you to train your replacement then big deal. You can move on to a contract gig or just ride off into the sunset. Either way you have a clear conscience.
I know a dude that was apparently an shit-hot COBOL programmer back in the day. He retired, but gave the company a lot of notice and was generally not a dick (unlike a lot of the idiots in this comments thread). He told them they could hire him as a consultant/SME from time to time if they needed it. He's been retired for 15+ years, and they still call him up every couple years. He charges 3 to 4 times his former salary, does one or two month gigs for them, every couple of years, and makes a killing.
I’d give my employer the same notice as they would give employees being laid off. Usually, that’s no more than a few hours (unless your employment contract requires longer notice, of course; in any case, I would give exactly the strict minimum).
Of course, circumstances vary. So, if you are in a tiny business with a good and meaningful relationship with all other employees (including owners and management), with a high level of trust such that you feel confident that they would never treat you in the typical way (“pack your stuff and be out within the hour”), then by all means, treat them nicely (like it’s been before). But since you are ending your question with “but I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either”, then it’s quite obvious that you are in a typical company, and the rule of the strict legal minimum applies.
I suppose that it could be nice (and astute) of you not to make plans for a trip around the world starting the next day. That way, if they really need you to stay longer, they are free to beg and offer you some satisfying money for you to do them a big favour. After all, why train your replacement for less?
By itself, that’s not mean. That’s simply the way businesses operate. They are your trading partner, and wise businesses don’t give any unnecessary leverage to their trading partners (suppliers or clients).
For Silicon Valley tech companies, which are in a "right to work" state, I'd recommend notifying for retirement on your last day. No reason to give these guys a heads up to cut you out of health plans or other things that are done by many of these shady publicly traded tech companies.
ZIP
On the calendar I have just over 1,100 days left. But using timeanddate,com, subtracting out weekends and holidays and also accrued vacation each year leaves 650 days at work, which I always point out is not the same as "work days". :-)
I built most of the IT security systems, processes and procedures and like all companies we've had a large amount of turnover. We're also in a highly regulated industry. Where the company used to think they could have people for ten years or more it's now two to three years because of the huge IT security personnel shortage. Other departments have multiple 40+ year employees but not IT Security. Two to three years is now the norm.
I have no plans on leaving earlier but will if the "right thing" turns up and I'll finish our my career at that place. But to be fair to my 10-year employer, and it is a good place to work, I'm letting them know they need to start the transitions and as a previous poster noted, you just have to back away from some things so other people are forced to learn. If the company is not supportive of that, it's their problem not mine.
Don't tell them shit until you're on the departing flight. Make sure you use up all your sick days and vacation time first, too.
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If you are near retirement age, your employer is already scheming to lay you off. My spouse literally had a 30th anniversary party along with several other employees, and the next day, half of them were laid off. They've figured out just how generous the package has to be, so that you'll voluntarily sign the agreement not to sue them for age discrimination, in return for some additional employment weeks, then some additional benefit weeks, and transition services in case you'd like to look for another job. And they'll have cake & a party too, just to keep up morale at the company for the young folks who'll be doing what used to be your work for half the price. They'll say that they're trying to get budget to take you on part-time, but it won't be happening.
Don't be a sucker. Give them notice the first day that you'd be willing to walk out the door and never look back. If they want to have you around for a transition period, they should pay what _you_ think is fair, and don't let them keep you going indefinitely. Once you state that you're leaving, they won't be lifting a finger or a dollar to keep you, as raises are given for those who are still pretending to be loyal beagles.
Depends on several things. 1, is your employer decent? Your loyalty to them suggests you think they are, but have a look at other people's experiences. If you know people who recently retired from them, have a chat and see what their experience was like. If your post is going to be that hard for them to fill, there's little danger they'll get rid of you on the spot.
Perhaps the best approach might be to wait till you're about ready to retire but could stand to work for a few more months if asked, then tell them you're retiring, but would be willing to continue on for up to X months or until they find a replacement. If you're that fond of the company you could also volunteer to help them with the recruitment process, so that you know you're leaving your work in safe hands.
Haha, good one.
People who think they're too important to lose need to be hit by a bus to show them how much no one cares.
It just lengthens the time it takes to replace you. Even then only slightly Moses.
..."It would be good to have that kind of job security."
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
Similar situation, I was the only dev for a redundant discontinued software product that my employer had invested heavily in. I told them 2 years in advance that I was out the door at 65. So we worked together to move some of the apps I had built to other platforms and we successfully got rid of most of the apps. But the ones that were left were the biggest most mission critical apps that were essential to running the business.
I was asked if I would consider supporting those remaining apps after I retired on the basis of being a contractor instead of an employee and I agreed subject to various conditions like I could go on extended holidays and could fit the work around my retirement plans to suit myself. It was also financially quite rewarding.
We have been doing this for the two years since I retired and it works for both parties. They have plans to replace the last remaining applications in the next year. I get emails with various requests and I can tell which ones are "urgent" and which ones can get done after the fishing. I've had a couple of really long holidays overseas and they know that however bad the problem is that they only have to wait x weeks until I'm back. I do around 12 hours a month.
It hasn't been viable to train anyone else as there are no training courses and the applications left are very complex but reliable.
The extra money has paid for updates to phones, laptops etc. Because it is run as business I can claim for the house phones and internet, proportion of the power and insurance so it has been financially advantageous and make our money stretch that much further.
Finally there is another payoff. It keeps my brain in shape. I do not miss working and think everyone should retire before they are too old or unwell to work any longer but it doesn't always have to be an either/or situation. Good Luck!
I know a CEO (we fly together weekly) that wrote in his contract that he can use all his vacation time at the same time. That said, he gave 12 months notice, and said that he's going to use his 6 months of saved PTO in a row, so he goes on vacation in May, comes back for a week in November, and then retires. Pretty sweet deal!
That's handy advice if you're a CEO, perhaps not so much otherwise.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I use to dream about a nice beach front home, then a lake front or river.
Now my plan is premium body bag and perhaps a nice water filled ditch to call home....
Speak with a financial consultant first and review your current social security benefits status. There's a sweet spot for maximizing your S.S. benefits payout and not be penalized.
When asked about my retirement plan I could have retired that day (some days I want to most I don't). So having that confidence I told them I'd commit to 6 months notice. So far so good, they are not nervous about me leaving and I seem to be being evaluated and managed as if nothing is amiss.
As many others have posted, I wouldn't mention it until you are ready financially (you can never be sure they won't hustle you out the door). Then talk to your management about picking a date and transition plan. Several of my co-workers have retired and had plans where they shortened their work hours as the date approached and then set up a contracting arrangement for after the official retirement date. One of them has been gone for several years, now, and I still get e-mails from him when he gets a job to do (he moved after retirement and telecommutes).
An engineer who ran for Congress. http://herbrobinson.us
I'm 40, but have already given my employer a 3-5 year heads up on retirement. (I'm lucky, and have a lot of focus on that goal.)
It's changed the dynamic, where high-stress things land on my lap at work far less often now. Since they know I could leave now... I get slightly better treatment, at least in those edge cases that would normally make me like my job less.
If you think your employer might let you go for giving them advance notice, stay quiet.
If you think there's no chance they'd let you go early, tell them now.
Otherwise, it took them six months to find *you*, so give them six months notice, and you've minimized risk while retiring with a clean conscience.
He used to say: "Take your hand out of a bucket of water. The dent that is left is how much your employer misses you."
No matter how good you are, there are others that can perform your job. Even if it isn't as competently as you, who cares? Not the company! The company structure is explicitly designed to reduce or remove dependency upon individuals.
That's what I did. It is up to the company to provide backup for you. It is up to you to look after your own needs. Three weeks is more than enough time for them to get started on a replacement and is considered reasonable for any profession. Don't be sentimental about a job. It's a job, not your life. Corporations are not sentimental about you.
"That's handy advice if you're a CEO, perhaps not so much otherwise."
True, but it is possible to negotiate more around these benefits at many companies than people typically realize. Converting from contract to FTE, they will initially say no but often it is possible to negotiate having your time on contract counted toward your time with the company. Often most things around vacation can be negotiated, starting with more time, haggling over how things work in the first year, etc.