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Faced With Rising Temperatures, People May Seek Asylum (axios.com)

Europe is already struggling to absorb an influx of refugees from war-torn Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Africa. Germany alone has taken in more than a million people since 2015. This wave of immigration has led to political upheaval, with the rise of right-wing political parties in Germany, Poland, Austria, and Hungary, among others. Now a new study, published in the journal Science, shows that the current surge in refugees may just be a preview of what's to come due in large part to global warming. From a report: At an average growing season temperature of about 68 Fahrenheit, which is the optimum one for agriculture, the number of applications for asylum was lowest. As the average temperature rose, so did the number of people from Somalia, Bangladesh and other warmer climate countries seeking asylum. But when cooler countries -- such as Serbia and Peru -- got warmer, fewer applications were received. The acceptance rate for asylum application to the EU is less than 10%. But when there was a spike in applications tied to weather fluctuations, the admittance rate rose to about 30%, suggesting agencies who evaluate the applicants find their cause worthy.

210 comments

  1. Context would be useful by XXongo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Would be useful if this were given some numerical context. How do the numbers of refugees due to climate compare to the numbers of refugees due to war and due to oppressive governments?

    1. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is some context...

      6-7 billion humans and growing. We human beings are also a system on Earth, just like those computer operating systems (Window, OS-X, Linux) that we invented.

    2. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The lack of numerical data is intentional. This is low effort propaganda designed to tug at your feels by throwing a bunch of half ass speculation in your face, juxtapositioned with stock photos of starving children.

    3. Re:Context would be useful by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Informative

      That would require someone do a multivariate analysis. And they won't do that because it would show civil war, oppressive governments etc are more strongly correlated to refugee flows than climate.

      Actually one big driver was getting rid of people like Gaddafi who stopped migrants coming to Europe. The EU had a deal with Gaddafi. Then France and the UK toppled him and Libya became essentially a failed state.

      https://www.theguardian.com/co...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Turkey also uses refugee flows as a foreign policy tool - they turn on the tap when they want more money from Europe.

      https://www.euractiv.com/secti...

      So how much is climate a cause? Not much. Weather probably does have some impact though - mainly because if you're going to cross the Med or walk across Europe you'd be better off doing when it's not freezing cold. But weather and climate are not the same thing.

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    4. Re:Context would be useful by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually this is a good point, but you're presupposing that these two causes of refugee flight are mutually exclusive. In fact they work synergistically. Environmental stress creates economic disruption, creating political unrest, encouraging people predisposed to fight oppressive governments rebel. That in turn prompting oppressive responses which exacerbate the underlying crisis and further erode the regime's credibility. This takes resources and focus away from the response to the underlying disaster, and in any case the inevitable favoritism and corruption push the regime to the brink of collapse.

      Take Syria, a perfect storm scenario. It's had a horrifically brutal, but *stable* regime for decades. A multi-year drought depopulated the countryside, further reducing its own agricultural output and creating large urban concentrations of unemployed young men ripe for radicalization. Then a transient spike in global wheat prices created shortages of subsidized bread and huge price spikes in market prices. This was

      It's hard to say how much better an honest and generally popular Syrian government would have weathered the crisis, but this much is clear: while oppressive governments *can* produce refugees on their own, they don't necessarily do so. But put a country where people hate and fear their government under stress, and you'll get refugees.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the heck could anyone hope to get that data? further a person may flee due to more than one cause. we do know that the Arab region around Dubai must be evacuated as the expected heat is beyond the abilities of air conditioning and 125 F. is expected in less than ten years. north is about the only real travel option for those forced to leave their homes in that region. Part of the current war in Iraq etc. is due to their inability to raise crops due to the heat. Hungry and poverty stricken people will never simply stay still and die. They will do what it takes to save themselves. The demographics of Europe may soon show an Arab majority. The only other likely choice would be a mass migration to S. Africa.

    6. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the correct answer. There are too many people. Jobs "disappear" because it takes fewer people to manufacture those things that people want. Large families are no longer needed to survive death rates on farms and they no longer convey wealth or success. Churches no longer need to help gather armies for the king. The fallacy of unlimited growth, both as a possible biological model and as a business plan, is being put to death. It does not take the media's 'death panels' to fix this. Attrition works well over time when coupled with low birth rates. The US's problems with Social Security/Pensions would largely go away if the military didn't piss away a trillion a year. Other country's balance sheets would play out in a similar fashion. The bankers would have it tough but there's always collateral damage in these things. At least it won't be innocent people this time.

    7. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. The numbers here are easy 0 refugees due to climate change the remaining due to the factors GP cited. This is just a cheap propaganda attempt

    8. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Refugees from Serbia most likely dropped because the Yugoslav Wars are now long over and there's some stability in the region.

      Somalia's been a basket-case that whole time, so of course it has a ton of refugees.

    9. Re:Context would be useful by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Would be useful if this were given some numerical context. How do the numbers of refugees due to climate compare to the numbers of refugees due to war and due to oppressive governments?

      Probably not that easy as things are interrelated. Climate change causes drought. Drought causes poor food yield. Poor harvests cause higher prices and starvation. High food prices and starvation cause civil unrest. Civil unrest cause refugees.

    10. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But weather and climate are not the same thing.

      This mantra, though appearing wise, isn't necessary right. Weather is 'photograph' of climate. Weather is like, say, a tri-dimension slice of the four-dimension climate.

    11. Re:Context would be useful by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3

      True, but the alarmist side always trot out 'weather is not climate' whenever the weather is cold because one day's cold weather doesn't say anything about long term climate changes. Which is true - saying 'The fact it's cold means global warming isn't happening' is a dumb argument. However it's also a dumb argument to say that because it's warm on a particular day global warming must be happening is a dumb argument, but not one the alarmist side ever object to. I.e. the media are being intellectually dishonest about when they use this argument.

      In this case the 'weather is not climate' distinction applies. If you're a wannabe migrant it's plausible that you're more likely leave when it is summer rather than winter because you've got less chance of freezing to death. That's responding to weather - it's 20 degrees C warmer in summer than in winter and if you want to cross the Med and walk across multiple countries that makes a difference. You're not responding to the fact that it's 0.8 degrees C warmer now than it was 100 years ago, because that makes no difference.

      I.e. you're responding to weather not climate.

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    12. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The US's problems with Social Security/Pensions would largely go away if the military didn't piss away a trillion a year....

      This statement alone tends to clarify the real problem. We haven't hit the "too many people" limit. We've just realized how much the disease of Greed impacts the entire planet, which is greatly evident when complaining about one of the worlds richest nations.

    13. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not so easy to separate. When the land your family works can no longer support you, the first place to look is around you, and the first thing you notice is the new town full of refugees from some war who have moved in upstream. So you talk to your friends and neighbours about them, and next thing you know *another* war has broken out.

      So climate change leads to war, and often to evil governments too, and that is the proximate cause of the migration.

    14. Re:Context would be useful by fatwilbur · · Score: 1

      Is it just me (living in a very cold climate) or does anecdotal evidence still suggest people are flocking to these warm areas of our planet over the vast frozen landscapes that dominate most of our land mass?

      I sure as hell aren't seeing people flock to our winter. And let's be real - the cold here will kill someone far faster than any of these warm spots. The grasping at straws of the climate craze movement to convince we have a coming disaster (and need to hand over all our money to fix it) is getting unbelievable.

    15. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would require someone do a multivariate analysis. And they won't do that because it would show civil war, oppressive governments etc are more strongly correlated to refugee flows than climate.

      Unless those are caused by poverty and the poverty is caused by barren land that is climate related.

      Turkey also uses refugee flows as a foreign policy tool - they turn on the tap when they want more money from Europe.

      It was an empty threat, Turkey isn't in a position to carry it out.
      EU is just as capable as Turkey at controlling their border so if Turkey tried EU would just close the border to Turkey and then Turkey is fucked.

      It's more or less the same situation as when North Korea rattles with their nukes. It is the sign of a weak man hiding behind threats to appear strong.
      The stronger part doesn't feel threatened and are just annoyed but sees no reason to escalate the situation so they play it out diplomatically.

    16. Re:Context would be useful by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have the basic idea right, but the motivations wrong.

      This isn't intended to make people "forget their internal divisions". On the contrary, it is supposed to stimulate and create division.

      A divided people is easier to "unite" under a common rule. (In the case of CoR, meaning rule of a select pre-chosen few.)

      Get the picture?

      Just look at the artificial divisions that have been introduced in the last 9 years or so (coincidentally REALLY ramping up at about the time Obama was elected): the most racial division (at least in U.S) in many decades, up to and including calls for white genocide; the most division by sex; nearly unrestrained, unwanted immigration; more politically-motivated shootings; "climate change", Antifa (which is really anything but), etc., etc.

    17. Re:Context would be useful by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1, Informative

      EU is just as capable as Turkey at controlling their border so if Turkey tried EU would just close the border to Turkey and then Turkey is fucked.

      EU countries all signed up to the ECHR which says

      1) They can't just shoot migrants arriving

      2) They're not allowed to return them because that would violate the principle of 'non-refoulement'

      https://eulawanalysis.blogspot...

      Basically, the dogmatic point of departure is simple: the EU principle of non-refoulement is anchored in Article 19(2) of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU, which contains a prohibition to remove, expel or extradite any person to a State where there is a serious risk that he or she would be subjected to the death penalty, torture or other inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. The Charter should govern the uniform interpretation of the principle of non-refoulement in Union law, both in the Treaties and in secondary legislation (like the Returns Directive and the Qualification Directive). As the prohibition of refoulement is absolute in the ECHR, it should universally be interpreted to be absolute regardless of the legal context of EU law in which it appears. Article 19(2) of the Charter corresponds to Article 3 ECHR, and so must be interpreted the same way (Article 52(3) of the Charter). See the ECtHR ruling in Chahal, and more case law in Kees Wouters, International Legal Standards for the Protection from Refoulement, Intersentia, 2009, p. 307 - 314. The Court of Justice has recognized the absolute nature of the rule in its judgment in Aranyosi (paras 85-87).

      https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/...

      https://www.yahoo.com/news/eu-...

      3) Inside the EU the migrants can claim asylum and even if they are refused they're unlikely to be deported

      https://www.express.co.uk/news...

      4) The numbers of asylum seekers who are likely to find work is minimal. Of the million plus migrants who arrived in 2016 only 54 found a job

      http://www.breitbart.com/londo...

      In a survey by the Frankfurter Allgemeiner Zeitung, however, most of the top 30 companies on the German stock exchange (DAX) said they were unable to employ any of the new arrivals. The companies said migrants lacked the necessary qualifications needed to fill any of their roles.

      Although the companies surveyed employ four million workers, FAZ reported that between them, they had only hired 54 migrants.

      Fifty of these are employed by the German post office, and the vast majority of top German companies hired none at all. Software giant SAP reported having two migrants working for them, and pharmaceutical manufacturer Merck also said they had hired two.

      I.e. if Turkey or Libya open the floodgates then there's nothing the EU can do legally to stop large numbers of people being dependent on benefits in the EU indefinitely.

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    18. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exterminate sand monkeys, problem solved. Otherwise these shitty terrorists will rape you like a goat.

    19. Re: Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the most important element of destabilizing Syria: foreign agents provocateur stirring up the masses in the name of toppling tyranny but really to deny the Russians warm-water ports, to reduce Shiite influence, and to build gas pipelines favorable to westrn allies; and foreign military aid to foreign fighters imported by terrorist networks. Guns flowed into Syria from the west (and via Libya), and ISIS and other more or less "moderate" (depending on the week) rebel groups recruited their numbers from around the world. Itâ(TM)s naive to think that Syriaâ(TM)s problems were mostly domestic, let alone fueled by climate change, when the amount of foreign interference was staggering.

    20. Re:Context would be useful by meglon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      http://archive.defense.gov/pub...

      You living in your own private fantasy land doesn't mean jack shit to reality.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    21. Re: Context would be useful by hey! · · Score: 1

      That stuff comes into play *after* the regime has been destabilized.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    22. Re:Context would be useful by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Lack of numbers is intentional in that it hasn't happened yet and this entire premise is philosophical and not getting dragged into the exact science debate.

      But your instant dismissal of something like an area being made unlivable causing mass migration (which is a prediction of most climate models for many places on the world) as propaganda has been noted. Don't worry, as your leader has said the entire climate change thing was just invented by Jhina.

    23. Re:Context would be useful by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      3) Inside the EU the migrants can claim asylum and even if they are refused they're unlikely to be deported

      Using an Anti-EU tabloid as a reference doesn't really help this point here. The fact is while few migrants are deported in figures, that is only because the official figures count people who are forced out using the country's resources. e.g. 580 people were deported from Germany in 2016. While that number is low 55,000 ended up leaving voluntarily after their asylum claim was denied.

      Deporting people is expensive so it doesn't happen a lot, so why do people leave voluntarily? Well it's actually damn hard to find even a place to live let alone work as an illegal immigrant in many EU countries, and as soon as your asylum claim is rejected you don't qualify for any state sponsored aid / housing anymore either. Not exactly a good thing when winter comes.

      4) The numbers of asylum seekers who are likely to find work is minimal. Of the million plus migrants who arrived in 2016 only 54 found a job

      Wow following up an express article with Breitbart. That is class.
      Speaking of I was working next to a building in Germany which got converted into temporary accommodation for people who were granted asylum. The building went in about Feb 2016 in quite a damn small town. Of the 50 people in there, more than half of them had a job by the time I left Germany (we shared some services with them including security and catering so chatted to them a bit). I find it amazing that half of the number of that reliable source all came from one little building in one little town in a little corner of Germany. They must be extremely lucky.

      It's a shame that Breitbart doesn't have a printed edition, I'm running low on toilet paper.

      I.e. if Turkey or Libya open the floodgates then there's nothing the EU can do legally to stop large numbers of people being dependent on benefits in the EU indefinitely.

      i.e. you get EU legal advice from far right anti-immigration and anti-EU fake news sources. Shame on you and shame on whoever modded you insightful.

    24. Re:Context would be useful by Muros · · Score: 2

      The numbers of asylum seekers who are likely to find work is minimal. Of the million plus migrants who arrived in 2016 only 54 found a job

      http://www.breitbart.com/londo...

      Funny that you think that, given that the source linked in the Breitbart article mentioned 400 full time jobs and 1800 interns. And that is from the companies that responded, not all did. Besides, why would you imagine that people who don't speak German and who have little in the way of relevant qualifications would be working in the top few companies in the country? How many people working in top Silicon Valley companies today arrived in America as asylum seekers within the past 18 months?

    25. Re:Context would be useful by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Brietbart is not a reliable source of information.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

      More than 54 have jobs, and many of the rest are in training to prepare them for work. See, Germany doesn't just invite them in and then ignore them, it deals with the situation actively.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any hope you had of making a point died when you attempted to call antifa "anything but" anti-fascist.

      Antifa IS antifascist. That is antifa's entire reason for existing, to fight fascism.

      Your pathetic attempt to discredit antifa shows you up for what you are, a Nazi sympathizer, if not an actual Nazi yourself.

    27. Re:Context would be useful by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Unless there are some years without a summer (there hasn't been one for 200 years) that's irrelevant when looking at trends.

      It'll influence a decision to go now or to wait three months, but not whether to go at all.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    28. Re:Context would be useful by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

      "As long as companies create more jobs than the number of refugees entering unemployment, that balances out the overall rate, even if it's not necessarily refugees taking up the positions being created," said Stefan Kipar, an economist at Bayerische Landesbank in Munich. "If growth in new positions slows down, you could start to see it feed through."

      At the height of the refugee crisis in 2015, the Germany's Labor Ministry predicted an increase in joblessness already for last year. Instead, the number of people out of work has fallen.

      Forecasts compiled by Bloomberg show economists predict unemployment will remain unchanged at 6.1 percent this year, before picking up to 6.2 percent in 2018. The Bundesbank is more optimistic. It sees the rate falling to 5.8 percent next year.

      As for refugees in integration and language classes, they're filed away as job seekers and will probably stay off the unemployment register for years to come. Part of the explanation lies in Germany's apprenticeship system -- a combination of classroom education and on-the-job training -- that serves as an entryway to the country's labor market, and also represents a high barrier for foreigner with little or no knowledge of the local language.

      According to labor agency projections, it will take as long as six years for a refugee to complete German classes, vocational school and internships to be considered a skilled worker, and potentially a lot longer to find a job. After 15 years, refugee employment is estimated to average about 70 percent.

      Gee, that sounds super!

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    29. Re:Context would be useful by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      https://translate.google.com/t...

      In the question of permanent jobs for refugees, hopes are increasingly resting on medium-sized companies and craft enterprises. As a survey of this newspaper revealed, the vast majority of companies listed in the German stock index (Dax) has not yet hired refugees. Only the German Post stated to have until the beginning of June 50 refugees and thus a significant size hired.

      And the link goes to this page

      http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wir...

      Which says "Dax companies hire only 54 refugees"

      Also look at this

      "Most Dax companies also point out in the FAZ survey that language skills and qualifications of the refugees do not correspond to the requirement profiles. That is why many Dax representatives are involved in corresponding projects. Probably the biggest one is probably the network "Wir zusammen", which the founder and founder of the German Internet corporation United Internet, Ralph Dommermuth, called into being through his foundation. The initiative currently involves 96 companies, including 15 Dax companies. A total of 1,800 refugee interns and 400 permanent immigrants currently work in the "we-together" companies. The will was there, the internships in permanent jobs to convert, said a spokeswoman, but this step always depends on the qualification."

      I.e. the companies pointed out that the migrants were unemployable given their language skills and qualifications. After a lot of nagging from the government and pro migrant NGOs they agreed to the '1,800 refugee interns and 400 permanent immigrants currently work in the "we-together" companies' scheme but these are still not large numbers when you realise one million migrants arrived. You're talking about 0.22%

      And as I linked elsewhere even the most optimistic people - i.e. German government spokespeople trying to explain to Bloomberg why the whole thing isn't a complete clusterfuck - think the migrants will have 70% unemployment even in 15 years time. E.g.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news...

      According to labor agency projections, it will take as long as six years for a refugee to complete German classes, vocational school and internships to be considered a skilled worker, and potentially a lot longer to find a job. After 15 years, refugee employment is estimated to average about 70 percent.

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    30. Re:Context would be useful by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      The Slashdot scoring system disagrees with you.

      Have a nice day.

    31. Re:Context would be useful by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      Although this comment has a negative score, I feel compelled to ask:

      Who said anyting about "promoting ethnic mixing"?

      I haven't stated anything even remotely like that.

      Maybe a lot of the "problem" you see, is YOU imagining that other people said things they actually did not.

    32. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said anyting [sic] about "promoting ethnic mixing"?

      Dude, he was responding to a comment that says "This is the fruit of their machinations: population transfers designed to promote ethnic mixing under the guise of 'asylum' from clinate [sic] change."

      I haven't stated anything even remotely like that.

      Umm... dude... he was replying to a comment that most certainly did say something "remotely like that". Not everything on Slashdot is a response to you.

      Maybe a lot of the "problem" you see, is YOU imagining that other people said things they actually did not.

      Maybe a lot of the "problem" you see, is YOU imagining that other people didn't say things they actually did.

    33. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, when the Slashdot scoring system disagrees with you, you demonstrate consistency by also treating that scoring system the same way rather than just whining and hurling insults.

      Just kidding, of course!

    34. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hal_Porter was incorrect on the 54 being all who were employed, but the Breitbart article does say that 54 was for jobs in top firms by survey. Before you can state a news source is fake news, you have to base it on things it actually says. Otherwise, you end up being the one spreading fake news!

    35. Re:Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would be useful if this were given some numerical context. How do the numbers of refugees due to climate compare to the numbers of refugees due to war and due to oppressive governments?

      Look in your own back yard. Extreme weather for Houston, Peurto Ricco in problem, 105F weather during the day in Texas, Arizona.
      It is going to be too hot to plant conventional crops too.
      So.... Look at Americans moving north, and many Americans, looking at Canada, or Latin America or to places where the countries have winters. (Some would also choose Alaska, which is a quite livable place).

    36. Re:Context would be useful by Muros · · Score: 1

      So you agree then that the statement you made, that only 54 refugees in Germany had found jobs, is nonsense?

    37. Re:Context would be useful by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Jobs "disappear" because it takes fewer people to manufacture those things that people want.

      One snarky sumbitch said that anyone who isn't a subsistence farmer is "technologically unemployed". Increased productivity has that effect, whether it be in agriculture or manufacturing: it takes fewer people to make the stuff. Believe it or not, this is a good thing, though during the transition it can be kinda rough on some of those in the industries where technological advances occur. Farrier was a poor career choice as automobiles replaced horses. And so on.

      As it became possible to produce more than enough food to feed one's family, the "technologically unemployed" people moved into fields (pun intended) other than subsistence agriculture.

      I'd fill in more of the blanks, but I've already paid too much attention to a post by AC.

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    38. Re: Context would be useful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Silencing people whose speech and opinion you abhor through violence is pretty much the definition of fascism.

    39. Re:Context would be useful by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      No, that's what FAZ reported here

      http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wir...

      And even the We Together initiative involving 96 companies only seems to have got a couple of thousand of them off the streets.

      "Most Dax companies also point out in the FAZ survey that language skills and qualifications of the refugees do not correspond to the requirement profiles. That is why many Dax representatives are involved in corresponding projects. Probably the biggest one is probably the network "Wir zusammen", which the founder and founder of the German Internet corporation United Internet, Ralph Dommermuth, called into being through his foundation. The initiative currently involves 96 companies, including 15 Dax companies. A total of 1,800 refugee interns and 400 permanent immigrants currently work in the "we-together" companies. The will was there, the internships in permanent jobs to convert, said a spokeswoman, but this step always depends on the qualification."

      My original statement "The numbers of asylum seekers who are likely to find work is minimal" is true whether 54 out of a million or 2200 out of a million got a job or an internship.

      --
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  2. Suspicious reasoning by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it really climate that drives people from Somalia or Bangladesh? Or is it instead the fact those countries are pretty unstable and people want to get to a more stable area?

    Especially if you are talking refugees, and not simply immigration requests. "Refugee" implies something catastrophic they are fleeing, not slightly warmer weather.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      not slightly warmer weather.

      There's your problem: lack of imagination. They're not running away from slightly warmer weather, they're running away from the secondary effects of that warmer weather: Too much rain/not enough rain, crop losses due to higher temps, etc.

      You really need to broaden your horizons dude. Or maybe learn how to use Google.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    2. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get with the program comrade, Global Warming IS a catastrophe!

    3. Re:Suspicious reasoning by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      hopefully the situations in those countries improves and they can all go home.

    4. Re:Suspicious reasoning by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure Bangladesh is partly unstable for climate reasons. That's what you get for living in a low-elevation place in a watery region that isn't the Netherlands.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Check the box on the application form: Reason for requesting asylum.

      Hey look! Someone added 'Global Warming'. Let's check that.

    6. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When it gets too hot to grow food, and people start starving, it leads to the kind of political instability that creates refugees. Just FYI.

    7. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great Trolling dude! LOL!

    8. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the problem has nothing to do with weather, climate, crops, rising or falling sea levels or all the other excuses you might come up with. The actual problem is trivially easy to see and understand: Africa's population is growing faster than any other population on the planet. It has doubled in the last 25 years. It is expected to go up by another 200 million people in the next five years. That's almost half the population of the European Union (and after Brexit, it will be more than half the EU population). I hesitate to make the apt analogy. No amount of food, no amount of jobs, no amount of homes that Europe can provide in that short a time will feed, pay and house that many people. It is never going to be enough. They can not come here, full stop. We have no obligation to allow an invasion fueled by rampant reproduction.

      When Africa was plagued by famine and diseases, this problem sort of "corrected" itself, but with all the advances that have been made to help Africa, someone forgot what happens in "predator-prey" situations when you eliminate the "predator."

    9. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that lack of rain/crops can lead to increased poverty which can lead to increased violence. People might be fleeing from the violence, but the root cause might be crop loss due to global warming.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    10. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty sad you have to use Google to think.

    11. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Migrations due to climate change may be secondary when they become apparent. For example climate change is a serious problem in California where fires are now a much greater issue. I'm sure that some people have already left California hoping for a safer place to live. In the Arab nations production of food is challenging. If the crops are being effected in such a way that 30% less yields are the norm you can bet that millions of starving people will try to migrate elsewhere. Obviously the economies and social practices of a nation can cause amplification of misery as food may not be distributed according to need and a larger portion of society goes hungry. Apparently wars are already happening over there in response to issues created by climate change.

    12. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try posting as an AC. Slashdot already punishes ACs with long delays between comments if they accumulate negative moderation.

    13. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have students from China that work in the UK. They like it here because our weather is moderate compared to the humidity of the coast and deserts inland. Same goes for many other parts of the world. Anywhere close to the equator is in a similar situation; Arab countries.

      The major obstacle moving to Europe is having a jobs that pays enough for a wage, unless there are able to get onto benefits.

    14. Re:Suspicious reasoning by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And, how is that supposed to work?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/w/ind...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    15. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Slashdot Administrators: I would suggest an IP ban for AC posters who attack logged-in account holders. Not for people who simply disagree, but for people who stalk specific logged in members.

      Ok, so now why don't you shove a fist up your ass, Bing Tsher? This is a direct attack. Sue me, fuckwit. ;)

    16. Re:Suspicious reasoning by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I think poor crop yields (they mention growing season) makes the bad situation worse.

      That makes sense to me, it's not the reason people are leaving, but it certainly can sway a few minds at the margins (they're talking low double digits percentages).

      It can increase instability too

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    17. Re:Suspicious reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it really climate that drives people from Somalia or Bangladesh? Or is it instead the fact those countries are pretty unstable and people want to get to a more stable area?

      Especially if you are talking refugees, and not simply immigration requests. "Refugee" implies something catastrophic they are fleeing, not slightly warmer weather.

      Take a good hard look at your own privileged life before you make such comments. Even you would leave the wealthiest of areas if you couldn't find food.

    18. Re:Suspicious reasoning by PPH · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just move inland a few miles with a few more feet of elevation above seal level? Answer: Because their neighbors who already live there will kill them.

      Sorry you folks live in a shithole where your fellow citizens won't step up and help you. Explain to me why this is my problem again?

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  3. They can come over to my place... by Kenja · · Score: 2

    Floors be COLD in the morning yall...

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  4. Plenty of cold in Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't they go to Siberia if heat is really their reason for migration?

    1. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by XXongo · · Score: 2

      Why don't they go to Siberia if heat is really their reason for migration?

      Well, mostly crop failures are the reason for migration. Heat is the reason for crop failure, but it's the crop failures that are the reason people are forced to leave.

      How much crops does Siberia grow?

    2. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by will_die · · Score: 1

      Siberia is capable of grows lots of crops and also use to be a major beef producer. The problem now is because of political issues people moved away from farming there; on the good side that means there is lots of available land.

    3. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      No, they *aren't* the reason for the migrations. The migrants themselves don't mention it and *do* mention better jobs, freedom, etc. The presumption of crop failure is injected by the GW factions simply to stir shit up.

    4. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Heat is the reason for crop failure

      Hardly. Try lack of water for irrigation.

    5. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sineria is very big.
      So in the south you can frow crops.
      In the north not so much.

      As a Syrian I never would go into Siberia/Russia, as the Russians are the assholes behind Putin and Sadat.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      In case if Syria, the reason is: war.
      And the reason of that war is the failed US politics in Iraq and the resulting ISIS.
      Plus: civil war in Syria as the population revolted partly against Sadadt.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:Plenty of cold in Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Syrian I never would go into Siberia/Russia, as the Russians are the assholes behind Putin and Sadat.

      Yes, they'd be better off under ISIS and Boko Haram.

  5. Get used to more gang rape and truck rammings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    For Europe the enemy is already inside the gates.

    1. Re:Get used to more gang rape and truck rammings by GNious · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Neo-nazism is on the rise, but we can't really send our own citizens away just for being dangerously stupid.

    2. Re:Get used to more gang rape and truck rammings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we can't really send our own citizens away just for being dangerously stupid.

      You're really lucky then.

  6. They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's absurd to call them "refugees".

    Real refugees have 2 primary goals:

    1) To reach the nearest location where the immediate danger they face is no longer present.

    2) To return to their origin as soon as it is safe to do so.

    In the case of Syrians, the locations matching those criteria would typically be within Syria itself. They could find safety without ever leaving the country.

    In rare situations, some Syrians might find Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, or even Iraq to be closer. But that's as far as they'd ever need to go to reach safety, while still being able to return home as soon as possible.

    There's absolutely no legitimate reason for any Syrian to have made the long journey to a Europe nation like Greece, never mind distant European nations like Germany, Sweden or the UK.

    The same goes for anyone coming from Africa. At least Syrians can say there is something resembling a real war going on in their nation. That's not true for nearly all of the Africans. They conditions might not be good, but they're nothing like Syria.

    It's even worse when it comes to those from Afghanistan, given how far away Afghanistan is from Europe.

    Anyone traveling thousands upon thousands of miles to Europe, through numerous safe countries, and with no intent to ever leave Europe, is not a "refugee". They're illegal aliens, and that's exactly what they should be referred to as. They should also be immediately deported.

    1. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Comboman · · Score: 0

      In rare situations, some Syrians might find Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, or even Iraq to be closer.

      Funny that you don't mention Israel in that list of neighbors. The one country that's done the most to destabilize Syria is also the one that's done nothing to help.

      --
      Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    2. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Also Saudi Arabia is not mentioned. A country who has done more to destabilize Syria than Israel.

    3. Re: They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at a map of the Middle East. Saudi Arabia does not border Syria. Syrians trying to reach Saudi Arabia would have to pass through Jordan or Iraq. Saudi Arabia probably wasn't listed for the sane reason Iran wasn't listed: they don't border Syria. Anyone fleeing violence in Syria should stop well before ever reaching Saudi Arabia or Iran.

    4. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, I'm in Florida where warming is already causing some serious problems. The home that I have will probably be in the water in 50 years. Now, how far would you migrate? Obviously the east coast is out of the question as rising seas will hit coastal areas as hard as it will hit Florida. So in know that in order not to have to migrate time after time i'll want some altitude to build a new home. I also will want and area where living wages can be had. So i might want a home in in Kentucky. And even though I am escaping an emergency situation i don't want to have to leave an area over and over again. People only have so many working years to save for old age and leaving and returning to an area may easily leave you as an economic wreck. There are situations in which a family might flee for a couple of weeks until some revolution dies down. But when people have very real expectations of not being able to return for a decade or more they need to stay in their new locations.

    5. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      2) To return to their origin as soon as it is safe to do so.

      My next-door-neighbours arrived here in Canada as refugees from Vietnam in the 70s. They got jobs, became citizens, and raised children. 40 years later, Vietnam is now 'safe' but they have no interest in returning there. They're Canadians now. The mother of the household vacations there every few years to visit friends and family, but that's it.

      The Syrian refugees across the street from me will likely follow the same pattern - They are integrating themselves into our community. If, a decade from now, Syria is 'safe,' the pull to go back there will likely be weak.

    6. Re: They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realise that Jordan and Lebanon have taken on huge numbers of refugees to the extent that that cannot and will not accept more? In Lebanon 25% of the population is Syrian refugees. So since they cannot stay in Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, nor Iraq, as the conflict encompasses Iraq, where do you propose they go?

    7. Re: They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geography doesn't seem to stop them from "fleeing" to Germany or Sweden

    8. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Your point two is plain wrong and one arguable as well.
      And the guys who modded you up are idiots.

      If YOU would flee from your own country, would marry have kids, learn the language and have a satisfying job: why the funk would you want to go "home"?

      You have a new home then ... where ever you are.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    9. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Vietnamese are not Muslim. That's the difference you tit.

    10. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Real refugees have 2 primary goals:
      1) To reach the nearest location where the immediate danger they face is no longer present.
      2) To return to their origin as soon as it is safe to do so.

      So what you're saying is that everybody's primary goal is to stay at their origin, only refugees leave and only because they're forced away and only for as long as absolutely necessary? I think quite a lot of people who has left their home town or state or emigrated would disagree with that. I'll admit that I've ended up fairly close to home, but it's because of family, friends and familiar surroundings. If I didn't have anyone left behind because they've either with me, fled somewhere else or they're dead and the town was in ruins, would I be drawn to these geographical coordinates like a homing beacon to rebuild from the ashes? I doubt it.

      I'd start over, but I don't think you'd mind because I'd adapt to the culture that gave me a second chance in life. And to be honest short of one rather large and medieval religion with a huge appetite for cultural appeasement I think most immigrants have integrated quite okay. And even among those you have a lot of casually religious that aren't much of a bother, like who you say your prayers to is not really a big deal. But then we have those who can't and won't integrate, that insist on rewriting equality and civil rights, freedom of speech, antiquated ideas of honor and quite frankly racism and blatant disdain for our culture and our people. And it doesn't take that many well-pissers to ruin it for everyone, those who want to just get along both on "our" side and "their" side.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The country that's done the most to destabilize Syria is Syria. You know, what with the torturing of children, mass murders, gassing entire towns...

      Tell me when Israel does that, ok? You fucking anti-Semite.

    12. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you're saying is that everybody's primary goal is to stay at their origin, only refugees leave and only because they're forced away and only for as long as absolutely necessary?

      Don't bother. That idea is only cultivated in nationalistic forums.
      It is actually a great tell to know you are dealing with neo-nazis that tries to mask their ideology since it isn't obvious to them that it comes from their own think-tank.

    13. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Digest some more of those white helmet press releases, surely they wouldn't misinform you.

    14. Re: They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Israel definitely does NOT want to be flooded with the islamic filth.

      They're smart.

    15. Re: They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Vietnamese don't want to turn Canada into Vietnam.

      The islamic filth won't be happy until your daughters are wearing sacks and trying to a void rape gangs.

      Fucking moron.

    16. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You bought an ocean front property and now your here looking for sympathy? GL

    17. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      2) To return to their origin as soon as it is safe to do so.

      This has never nor will ever be the definition of a requirement for a refugee.

    18. Re:They're illegal aliens, not "refugees". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There's absolutely no legitimate reason for any Syrian to have made the long journey to a Europe nation like Greece, never mind distant European nations like Germany, Sweden or the UK."

      Wholly fuck you're stupid, go talk to a syrian refugee you obviously haven't done that. They've been through hell, my neighbours in my last apartment were syrian refugees. The sometimes calm and collected way they talk about what they saw when their lives were destroyed gives you chills.

      They were from Aleppo by the way.

      https://www.newyorker.com/maga...

      On the last day, Oso stayed behind, after his father left for home, to try to sell their apples at an open market. There he was approached by a plainclothes security officer, who asked for his I.D., and told him, "You are a terrorist."

      Oso was taken to a local branch of one of the state security agencies, where he was led into a basement with four open cells crammed so full of men that sitting was impossible. The stairs leading down to the cells, and the corridors connecting them, were also packed. It was extremely hot. There were no windows, no air, and the basement reeked from several dead bodies that had been left to rot. Most of the prisoners were half-naked and covered with bruises. An obese man had been painfully stuffed between two close walls, in a narrow passage, and was unable to extricate himself. The man had soiled himself and could not stop crying.

      Every so often, the door at the top of the stairs would open, and a guard would call out a name. "While I was there, they called more than fifty people to go with them," Oso said. "Around the clock, all the time, there are interrogations and they are calling people." When Oso's name was called, he was blindfolded and led to an interrogation room. "You have been going to demonstrations," the interrogator told him. "You are plotting to kill members of the security services and the state." When Oso refused to confess, he was escorted down another flight of stairs, to another basement, where he was severely whipped and beaten. Again he was brought to the interrogator, maintained his innocence, and was taken to the basement. This time, a baton was used on his hands and legs. He was brought to the interrogator, did not confess, and was returned to the basement. He was strapped to a metal chair and doused with water. He was repeatedly given electric shocks, each jolt lasting four or five seconds. When he found himself sitting across from the interrogator a fourth time, Oso felt dizzy, as if he'd been drugged. The interrogator produced a pair of pliers. One of Oso's toenails he managed to pull out completely; another he merely broke in half. Oso did not confess.

      Twelve hours later, for reasons that he still can't understand, he was released.

      Go fuck yourself that syrians aren't refugees you russian or american troll.

  7. The Democrats do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They want to let all the migrants in and then raise our taxes to pay for their benefits.

    1. Re: The Democrats do by mSparks43 · · Score: 0

      nah, they want to let the migrants in because bums like you wont work or pay taxes.

    2. Re:The Democrats do by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They want to let all the migrants in and then raise our taxes to pay for their benefits.

      In truth wealthy donors to both D and R like cheap labor and thus we allow in millions of immigrants. Compounded by the Democrats lusting over poor immigrants who tend to vote Democrat. Thus both parties are fine letting in literally millions of immigrants and their families (and extended families) for various reasons. The fact that it hurts average citizens by way of lowering wages, increasing housing and traffic issues, crowding schools, and bringing in crime and gangs are all overlooked by the wealthy ruling class and their benefactors. After all their kids attend private schools and they live in safe gated communities. If you disagree you will be called a racist as a way of shutting you up.

    3. Re: The Democrats do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes that is EXACTLY what's happening in europe is the mooslims are taking the jobs and paying the taxes the worthless host population don't want to do. Right. Your statement would KINDA be true if sexually assaulting and raping the infidel females and running people over in acts of terrorism were a profession. It's going to be rich watching western europe begging anyone who will listen to bail them out when they FINALLY realize their politicians and unelected EU lords did not have their best interest in mind.

    4. Re: The Democrats do by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      i didnt say they are getting what they wanted. just what they wanted.

      perversly i live in a country where Muslims are terrified to exist, because they were all recently genocided.

      which sounds like what you want....

  8. Yes and CO2 rose when pirates disappeared by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly pirates used to enhale CO2 and store it in their bodies and exkrements.

  9. And now from the disinformation channel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This!

  10. So the study concludes asylum seekers are lying? by magzteel · · Score: 2

    According to https://www.immigrationequalit...

    An asylum seeker must prove that he or she has a well-founded fear of persecution based on one or more of five grounds:

    Race
    Religion
    Nationality
    Membership in a particular social group (Most LGBTQ individuals who apply for asylum qualify under this category)
    Political opinion

  11. Bangladesh crop yields up, not down by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They're not running away from slightly warmer weather, they're running away from the secondary effects of that warmer weather: Too much rain/not enough rain, crop losses due to higher temps

    The truth is those factors alone are not enough to convince most people to move. Several years of bad crops and California farmers are still farming.

    You aren't suffering from a lack of imagination, just a lack of understanding the overall conditions of the regions people are leaving. "Poor crop yield" is so far down the list it doesn't even register, and makes very little sense for some of the areas talked about (like Bangladesh).

    In fact, it turns out that Bangladesh crop yields are going up, if you look at potatoes the output is up - in fact the real problem with crops this past year was not warmer weather, but flooding. Even so total agricultural production was up 2.9% overall, so why would people be refugees from Bangladesh based on crop yields when they are up?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Bangladesh crop yields up, not down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Californian farmers don't tend to starve if crop yields are low.

    2. Re:Bangladesh crop yields up, not down by Thirty4 · · Score: 2

      To put immigration on climate change is a far stretch, the relationship is more of a butterfly effect. To completely ignore climate change as a factor would be a mistake. Climate change can drive significant agricultural changes. Significant change to crop yield, be it negative or lateral disrupts a lot of families and individuals. By lateral crop yield change, I mean the change from one crop to another. Ex: A farmer, who has invested to grow wheat, may fail and his farmland may be acquired by a company that farms potatoes. The company is better suited to handle the changing market and growing dynamics than the individual farmer, so the company capitalizes on it and the farmer is displaced. Cumulative individual disruption leads to unrest. You can't reasonable quantify how much climate change contributed, If climate change didn't happen, perhaps issues would not have compounded and things would have gotten better. Or perhaps it would have happened anyway. Thus the butterfly affect. Unless you're in a time paradox, you'll never know. I think the point most people miss is that cumulative individual disruption leads to unrest. The rate and the severity of that disruption affects the severity of the unrest. People adjust to disruption, but when the rate of disruption is too fast and too severe, society reaches a tipping point and falls off a cliff.

    3. Re:Bangladesh crop yields up, not down by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Flooding because of warmer climate?
      Or simple flooding as Bangladesh is experiencing floods quite regularily?
      Looking at potatoes does not really make sense in Bangladesh either ... why don't you look on a map where it is, then you easily should be able to guess their main staple food.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  12. Re:PC Indoctrination != News for Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure it does... They're coming to take yer jobs.

  13. Why is migration a big deal for Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US per wikipedia has a total of about 12 million illegal immigrants. That isn't including a large amount of legal immigration, which is about 700k/yr. This is merely the population who walked over the border illegally.

    The refuge crisis for Europe really only moved past a trickle in 2015, which saw about 1.2m total. Now it's back down to trickle again: about 150k for all of 2017. The US gets that much in 6-8 weeks, not a year. The total numbers for the whole recent "crisis" are MUCH smaller than what the US has dealt with, and that's spread among a larger total population: 740m for Europe v 325m for the US.

    Migration has been a relatively minor problem for Europe.

    1. Re:Why is migration a big deal for Europe? by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      Dude, by far most of the illegal immigrants in the US are Mexican. Much of them already have family here who have been here since the Mexican American War turned a gigantic chuck of Mexico into the American southwest. 30 million or so Americans have Mexican heritage. Mexico and the US share a lot of culture as well.

      Plus, we are neighbors.

      In Europe on the other hand, they are strangers. They are coming from afar, from strange lands. They have no family, no where to go but camps and start accepting government handouts. It is a shitshow that simply doesn't exist here even with our far greater numbers of migrants.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  14. Sure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Faced with rejection of "refugees" from non-war-torn areas, we'll make importation of the new underclass more palatable by whining about, "But, but, it's warm where they're from!"

  15. No place to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Real refugees have 2 primary goals 1) To reach the nearest location where the immediate danger they face is no longer present. 2) To return to their origin as soon as it is safe to do so.

    In the case of Syrians, the locations matching those criteria would typically be within Syria itself. They could find safety without ever leaving the country.

    I take it you know nothing about the Syrian crisis, then.

    What place in Syria is it that you believe is "where the immediate danger they face is no longer present"? The few places within Syria that aren't in a war zone with boundaries that are constantly changing... are jammed to overflowing with the eight million people who are already displaced within Syria; the largest internally displaced population in the world. About six in ten Syrians are now refugees, most of them internally.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34189117

    1. Re:No place to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      funny how i had a bunch of syrian tourists on my last cruise

  16. Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & I by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    The real problem here is that the populations in places like Africa, the Middle East and India, among others, are skyrocketing far beyond reasonable levels.

    These are regions that were already lacking the necessary resources to support even small populations at the most basic of levels. We're talking about areas that have literally no suitable agricultural land, little water, and few other resources.

    The solution is not to move these people to Europe, or Japan, or North America, or other civilized places.

    The solution is for the people in these nations to stop reproducing.

    When you're living in a UN "refugee" camp, with all of your food and water coming from UN handouts, you shouldn't be bringing children into the mix.

    When you're living in a war zone like Syria or Iraq or Afghanistan or Yemen, you shouldn't be bringing children into the mix.

    When the parents can't even sustain themselves in any reasonable way, it's asinine for them to reproduce.

    The most absurd part of all of this is how the political left in Western nations view the situation, and even contribute to making it far worse.

    The same people who claim to be the most concerned about the environment and sustainability are the same people who push the hardest to send more and more foreign aid to places like Africa and the Middle East.

    Of course, as decades of evidence now shows us, this sort of aid only serves to make the problem much, much, much worse in the short term. It enables people who shouldn't be reproducing due to a lack of resources the ability to reproduce.

    In the long term it will be a disaster beyond anything imaginable. If the West is ever not able to provide this aid, for whatever reason, the humanitarian disaster will be immense.

    What's worse is how the political left tries to use "political correctness" and false accusations of "racism" to try to shut down any discussion regarding this extremely important issue. Or they come up with lies like, "they need to reproduce so they can have more farm workers", despite these regions not having anything resembling agriculture, and despite nearly everyone in these regions requiring handouts from the UN or other aid organizations.

    The only solution to these problems is a significant decrease in the birth rates in places like Africa, the Middle East, and India. And it can't happen later. It has to happen immediately. The reproduction rate needs to be brought down to 0% in order for the situation to stabilize, and perhaps eventually improve.

  17. Cause and effect by Comboman · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Is it really climate that drives people from Somalia or Bangladesh? Or is it instead the fact those countries are pretty unstable and people want to get to a more stable area?

    Yes, but those countries are relatively more stable when climate (and thus food production) are closer to historical norms. Instability drives migration, but food shortages drive instability and climate drives food shortages.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  18. Deniers can't wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to watch people dying in the streets.

    Fucking apocalypse cults. They will be the end of Man.

    1. Re: Deniers can't wait by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      The die-off will not be televised... unless there's a useful boogeyman who can be blamed.

  19. Not a trivial problem by sjbe · · Score: 3, Informative

    The US per wikipedia has a total of about 12 million illegal immigrants.

    Which were absorbed over a long period of time and who came to work for depressingly low wages. It wasn't 12 million all at once. Many of them have been here literally for decades. The total number of illegal immigrants in the US hasn't risen for about a decade and in fact has declined somewhat from the peak.

    Migration has been a relatively minor problem for Europe.

    It isn't a minor problem. It's not to the scale justifying any sort of panic but any time you get a million new refugees in a relatively short time frame that creates a lot of very real problems. These people need to be fed, sheltered, to find work and school, etc. This isn't a trivial undertaking by an measure. It's made worse of course by the inevitable racists and xenophobes who want to shut the borders to keep anyone different out.

    1. Re:Not a trivial problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't 12 million all at once

      No, but there were years in a row of 700k per year, and many more years of 300-500k/yr. Normalized per population 700k is still more per capita than the peak refuge influx into Europe 1.2m, which quickly decayed to much lower numbers again. Europe really had only one year of big numbers.

    2. Re:Not a trivial problem by Oligonicella · · Score: 0

      It's made worse of course by the inevitable racists and xenophobes who want to shut the borders to keep anyone different out.

      You misspelled "who refuse to assimilate."

    3. Re:Not a trivial problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You misspelled "who refuse to assimilate."

      Silly xenophobe they clearly aren't receiving enough gibs to assimilate.

    4. Re:Not a trivial problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you until the last sentence. Why'd you have to turn into an idiot that denies the real issues in favor of virtue signaling?

  20. 68 Fahrenheit? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 0

    68 Fahrenheit = 20 Celsius

    I know. "Just fucking Google it."

    But by omitting that bit of information in the summary, something that would require msmash five seconds of work, you just made every non-US reader waste five second.

    So you saved five seconds but caused a total waste of who-the-fuck-knows how many hours for everyone else not in the USA.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:68 Fahrenheit? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Well, while you are right, you can safely assume everyone in the world knows that 100F is body temperature ... so 68F is significantly below that.
      Who cares if that is 19, 20 or 21 C

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:68 Fahrenheit? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 0

      you can safely assume everyone in the world knows that 100F is body temperature

      I did not know that. You must be American, because only a typical arrogant American would assume everyone in the world knows something like that.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:68 Fahrenheit? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No, I'm european.
      An american would never be as arrogant as I am, he simply would assume that every country outside is a 3rd world country and uses Farenheit as well.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:68 Fahrenheit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Knowledge often looks like arrogance to the ignorant.

    5. Re:68 Fahrenheit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except when it's knowledge of pointless information, in which case in makes you a pretentious asshole.

  21. Things that make you go hmmmm by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 2

    >>...with the rise of right-wing political parties...
    This is curious to me. Are these parties rising because they see their country and identity being overrun with immigrants, or are they on the rise because they see their country becoming a (perceived, rightly or wrongly) welfare state for foreigners, or is it something else?

    The implication from the summary is it's due to climate shift, but I'm not so certain that's accurate.

    --
    So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
    1. Re:Things that make you go hmmmm by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      As with everything in life, there are probably multiple reasons. Included in there is likely people doing worse off (or perceiving that they are worse off) and laying blame with a group of "others" just as they've done for thousands of years.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Things that make you go hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's because they believe their leaders are failing them.

    3. Re:Things that make you go hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >laying blame with a group of "others" just as they've done for thousands of years

      Thank goodness we've got that old chestnut at the ready so that we can avoid hard questions!

    4. Re:Things that make you go hmmmm by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      The thing about merely perceiving to be less well off, I can't recall seeing any populist (not all the parties are actually right wing) argumentation based on that and I live in Europe myself.

      No, the usual arguments are about the additional strain on healthcare and social services, increased crime (specially rapes and other violent crime where immigrants from Africa and the middle East are already badly overrepresented), the cost of the unemployment and other benefits along with the rather retrograde views on things like religious and women's rights held by a large portion of the immigrants.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    5. Re:Things that make you go hmmmm by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Look at the systemic lack of action by police, councils and the crown in the UK over the massive child prostitution, child grooming and rape gangs, and it becomes a case that it's a bit from column a and b. More so that the prevailing political thought is "not to punish those asians" but to ignore it, or even accost the victims. And you've seen the same happening in other EU countries with regards to similar issues, or issues stemming from that. Again with the government, courts, police, crowns offices, and so on not doing anything. Then, the political left in these countries will start to screech that if you dare question any of this, you're "racist, sexist, islamophobe, etc, etc, etc." So, this pushes left-of-centre to the middle or right into the political right. And people on the right who were dismissed as "crazy lunatics" and "racists" for daring to want to limit immigrants who refuse to integrate into society aren't looking quite so crazy to these people. Rather, those people are looking back going well...maybe they were really correct all along.

      That doesn't make it a case of "others" but a fundamental breakdown in the social contract. Where politicians and members of government see themselves as the elite and "they know best" and the people who are suffering under it, and asking "why the fuck didn't the police charge xyz person who groomed and raped my daughter who just hung herself."

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  22. This means wealthy countries who have polluted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have harmed these people and should let them immigrate.
    Or we didn't harm them and they still want to come live here.

    They want to be your neighbor; why not just invite them in?
    Give me you tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...

    Did we forget something between then and now?

    capcha: thanks

  23. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2, Informative

    Starvation is not a very ethical means of contraception. And yet that appears to be what you are advocating.

  24. Wow... the right-wing filth is strong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Wow, look at all these racist climate-deniers inbred right-wing retards coming out in throves and spamming this thread with their filth.

    And on top of that, they have the nerve to claim that "libtards" have taken over slashdot !

    Funny, but whenever a thread about Trump, or global warming, or renewable energy, etc, pops up on slashdot, the only thing I ever see taking over the comment section is cockroaches. Racist, sexist, anti-science, right-wing republitard cockroaches. They really do live in their own little version of reality, don't they. Not surprising, coming from people who believe in omnipotent invisible beings in the sky.

  25. Rising temperatures? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    Come to Canada, we'll give you our snow! Just take it off our streets and it's yours!

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  26. Is the USA immune? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Article correlates temperature to migration, i.e. farm becomes nonviable, food supply dwindles, hungry people flee. That's the *usual* catastrophic failure. They're not idiots, they know

    " slightly warmer ", yeh right Super Kendall, you may not feel it but the crop yield do and the people feel the hunger.

    You might look at the US corn reserves at this point, and realize you need a longer term staple that stores much better than corn. 3 months corn reserve is not enough. You need 10 years-20 years of reserves of a core staple. Corn doesn't store well, too much sugar, too much water, other crops do better.

    Sure, you can say "I'm a Republican and it won't affect me" and that's probably true. Typical demographic of a Republican is an old person who will die soon. But as a nation, USA should probably look at food reserves.

    I suspect the timing of this article is because the Trump presidency has decided global warming isn't to be considered as a national security threat. But the reality there is they'll still consider it, they'll just classify it differently to get it past Trump. At the end of the day, millions of Americans can die, and their duty is to Americans, to *people*. They know the majority didn't vote for Trump and their duty is to protect the country and its people, and Trump is an old man who will die soon but the problem of global warming won't die with him. So they'll do their job and consider the threat of global warming to the US food supplies.

  27. Grenade attacks in Sweden since 2014. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We only need to look to Sweden to see what happens when illegal aliens (commonly, and wrongly, referred to as "refugees" by some) are allowed to violate the borders of a civilized Western nation.

    Sweden has seen a huge increase in grenade attacks, of all things, since the start of the illegal alien disaster around 2014. During 2015 and 2016 there was a grenade attack almost every week!

    It has been particularly bad in the city of Malmö, which has a large population of third-worlders from terrible places like Iraq and Somalia.

    Keep in mind that Sweden has a relatively small population, with official figures putting it at just over 10 million people. To put that in perspective, New York City alone has almost that many people living in it!

    Until recent years, Sweden was also historically one of the safest, most highly developed nations in the world.

    Yet a relatively small number of foreigners from some of the worst places on Earth have managed to ruin Sweden's standard of living, along with Sweden's reputation, within a span of only 4 to 5 years.

    These illegal aliens are destroying Europe.

    1. Re:Grenade attacks in Sweden since 2014. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      Don't forget that Sweden is now telling women to stay in at night or walk in pairs or more due to a series of violent gang rapes of teenage girls over the last 3 weeks. Damn Vikings, eh?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    2. Re:Grenade attacks in Sweden since 2014. by XXongo · · Score: 2

      We only need to look to Sweden to see what happens when illegal aliens (commonly, and wrongly, referred to as "refugees" by some) are allowed to violate the borders of a civilized Western nation.=Sweden has seen a huge increase in grenade attacks, of all things, since the start of the illegal alien disaster around 2014. During 2015 and 2016 there was a grenade attack almost every week!

      ...and nevertheless, Sweden's murder rate, grenades and all, is less than a quarter the rate of America. The answer seems to be that despite all the refugees, if you're afraid of crime, you should flee America to go to the much safer Sweden.

      Oh, and the rate of crime in Sweden hasn't changed over the last 20 years. Apparently the "illegal alien disaster" of refugees actually isn't the problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    3. Re:Grenade attacks in Sweden since 2014. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aka black people in america commit more crime than refugees ...

  28. Re:Translation by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

    Just as they were in the United States in the past when "those Jews/Irish/Chinese" were "flooding" in and going to destroy our country if we didn't keep them out. Our country was fine - and arguably better for absorbing new groups of people - and this "wave" of immigrants (in quotes because immigration is actually down) won't destroy our country either. However, racist xenophobes in the US might destroy our country in their efforts to protect us from those scary immigrants.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  29. For those of you wondering why this is so bad by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    it's because refugees aren't immigrants. They didn't move for a better life, they moved because they got kicked out. So they don't integrate with the host society. This is a big problem in Europe right now. It's giving their far right ammunition. It's also put the Jews in a bind as they're sandwiched between a far right that hates them and Muslim refugees that aren't exactly crazy about them either. Meanwhile demagogues are using all this social friction to rise to power.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re: For those of you wondering why this is so bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They weren't 'kicked out' of their homelands. They left voluntarily.

      They are looking for the best government handouts, which is why they go to Germany, Sweden, France and the UK, rather than the closer European nations in the Balkans that aren't as generous with handouts.

    2. Re:For those of you wondering why this is so bad by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1, Interesting

      So they don't integrate with the host society.

      If course they do. Canada is full of refugees, all very happy to be here, and the majority of whom are working hard to integrate into Canadian society.

      My next door neighbours are refugees. The whole family works freaking hard and all manner of scut jobs.

    3. Re:For those of you wondering why this is so bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm from Canada too, and what you say seems to be 'generally' true, though there's also friction of multiple cultures whereby various cultural 'norms' or 'expectations' are not changing quickly. 1 example, is a girl I "dated" years ago whose family was from India, she was '2nd generation' (I'd consider myself 3rd...e.g. my dad+mom we're born in Canada, my grandparents immigrated). I put "dated" in scare quotes because the point was/is that there was no hope of any real relationship as I wasn't of their culture & she'd already been 'promised' to someone who was. This type of cultural 'norm/expectation' isn't illegal & doesn't lead to serious societal upheaval or problems (I wasn't about to make any 'big' issues over it, I just moved on), but it certainly doesn't suggest 'integration'.

      More to the point though. Canada has the benefit of not having serious amounts of refugees pouring over the borders, with little to no 'control' over who is coming. Canada gets to 'pick & choose'. I would even argue that Canada's weather plays a part in it, when it's -40 C outside I doubt anyone is planning a terrorist attack on their 'neighbor'. Yeah, I know it's not always -40 C, just saying that when a good portion of the year requires modern technology just to reasonably survive there are bigger issues then arguing with your neighbors over their cultural beliefs.

      If or when Canada experiences an influx of refugees the size of the EU and in the manner they are immigrating (e.g. taking boats across the Mediterranean, landing & expecting/demanding help) than maybe we would see how well such immigrants will 'integrate' in to Canadian society. As a Canadian I would remain hopeful, but as a human & observing the nature of the issue in the EU I have my doubts about whether such immigrants would 'integrate' well to Canadian society.

    4. Re:For those of you wondering why this is so bad by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ummm... The only problem with this is that now that countries have had the time to process most of the mass that arrived in Europe during 2015, it's become clear that actual refugees only make up a minority of those masses. Massive amounts of people saw an opportunity for a better life in Europe and simply hitched a ride with the actual refugees. Even Sweden, having a reputation of being very welcoming to immigrants, has been rejecting about 70% of all asylum applications and the deportation of immigrants who have finally exhausted all of their options is becoming a bigger and bigger problem across Europe.

      Not only is it becoming harder and harder to get the countries to take back all of their citizens, Iraq being particularly difficult, a lot of the immigrants have decided to simply not accept that their asylum application got denied. Instead they've either gone underground, thinking if they stay long enough they can eventually get permanent residence, or have started roving around Europe applying for asylum in multiple countries using false identities (as per the Dublin process if you have your asylum application denied in one country other EU countries will not even consider any further applications by you).

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
  30. I saved $2000 in taxes switching to Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean progressive policies that hurt the middle class, and then calling them names for pointing it out is costing them elections. And they can't figure out the real cause why?

    Perhaps when the progressives realize having "refuges" killing and raping their own population and that IS a problem, they can change their policies. But it doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon. Blaming the victims and calling them names is probably the best way to get them to vote for you, said no one who is sane ever.

  31. Bangladesh production *down* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    From your link, the headline:
    "Bangladesh’s food production [i.e. in total] dropped by 943,000 tonnes in fiscal 2016-17"

    "past year was not warmer weather, but flooding"
    Yeh right, flooding, the predicted affect of global warming, so what's your point?

    " so why would people be refugees from Bangladesh based on crop yields when they are up"
    Because they're hungry, and your attempt to mislead people here by lying doesn't fill their stomachs. I mean really SuperKendall, were you hoping nobody would google the actual stats or read the link you provided?

  32. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >http://www.newsweek.com/2017/03/31/egypt-population-birth-rate-food-water-shortage-isis-terrorism-sissi-570953.html

    Oh my, it seems the Egyptian population growth was sustainable for most of the 2000s, until 2008. Anything significant happen in 2008?

  33. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Calydor · · Score: 1

    You fail at basic math.

    If each person working can produce enough food for 0.9 people, having a thousand times as many people will NOT help everyone suddenly not be hungry.

    If there isn't enough food or capacity for growing enough food for everyone NOW, the solution is to have less people, not more.

    --
    -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  34. news for nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This shit is not true and doesn't matter..

  35. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1850s America was a different country. It was possible to have a family and move forward just by having a strong back. That is nowhere near possible today, anywhere, but you already know that don't you. So you types rely on your fulminate of 'racist xenophobes' to shutdown vigorous debate. Pot meet kettle.

  36. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Starvation is not a very ethical means of contraception

    It's effective.

    Depends on what ethics you subscribe to in pursuit of moral relativism.

  37. Climate refugees will outnumber others soon by Qbertino · · Score: 0

    This isn't really news. Climate refugees will outnumber other refugees (war, economical, social) within two to four decades. This has been suspected for 2,5 decades and since was proven to be a correct assumption.
    Scientists also pretty much agree that certain parts of earth will be inhabitable at the end of this century. Central india and large areas in africa are on that list. Global heat wave death rates are rising by the year and this will only get worse.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Climate refugees will outnumber others soon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Please feel free to point to a single refugee application in any country in the world where someone put down "I want to leave my country and come to yours because the weather in my country sucks!"...claiming you know that people are leaving an area due to 'climate change' is entire bullshit. Until or unless you can separate refugees leaving for entirely other man made reasons (war, dictatorships or other government control making life shitty) you have no way to claim any single person is leaving their country of birth due to 'climate'...

      This is not to say that people won't migrate due to climate change, but attempting to suggest it is happening now or will happen in great numbers any time soon (2 to 3 decades) is a fools game and simply propaganda.

  38. Slashdot changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot has changed from "News for nerds, stuff that matters" to "Only stuff we are politically for".

  39. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1, Troll

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  40. And we'll tell you USAmericans NO. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And laugh over our stockpiles of fresh water you no longer have a right to buy after scrapping NAFTA because youre morons.

  41. Re:This means wealthy countries who have polluted. by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Informative

    Don't quote a poem as a source of your national stance. That's just stupid. Stupid also is to let in those who vocally call for the destruction of your country, refuse to assimilate and *become* your neighbor and who actively call for *their* law (you know, from where they came) to replace *your* law.

  42. Re: What a load of crap! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice wall of text.
    No one read it bud.

    Time you up your meds.

  43. Correlation? Causation? Too complicated! by mveloso · · Score: 2

    Let's blame everything on climate change, because why not?

    1. Re:Correlation? Causation? Too complicated! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Let's blame everything on climate change, because why not?

      Oh? I'm interested. Do you postulate that people in an area that are no longer able to sustain food or water would instead stay in that area?

  44. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When you're living in a [borderline uninhabitable place] you shouldn't be bringing children into the mix.

    Good advice to those people.

    Now, let's talk about everyone else, the people who don't live in those places. Let's say someone over there ignores your advice and brings children into the mix. What should you do about it?

    Kill them? That would fix the problem.

    Leave them alone, but kill them if they come to our, more-inhabitable area?

    Let them migrate with all the same freedom that we have to migrate, and compete with them in a free market? (e.g. Me and my children might lose out and suffer the consequences of living in an uninhabitable area, because someone over there came and "took my job" so I have to move. But that's fair, because I had no more rights to this region of the world than anyone else, and my terms from birth were always "may the best man win" and I just happened to not measure up.)

    Dump money into technological development and/or military force, to try to cause those less habitable places to become more habitable? (Thereby relieving the pressure on the people over there, to move over here.)

    Fight against mysticism and anything else that persuades people to eschew birth control?

    Something else? There are people over there with incentive to come here. They shouldn't make more people, but for whatever reason they do and we have to deal with the consequences that has on us. You can't just give "don't have kids" advice and then pretend that you magically got people to follow it. If they ignore your advice, you can blame them but that doesn't solve anything. You have to do something, or else accept the consequences of not doing something. You can't get out of it.

    Republicans and Democrats have both shown they don't have a clue what to do. Do you?

    What's worse is how the political left tries to use "political correctness" and false accusations of "racism" to try to shut down any discussion regarding this extremely important issue.

    There is no evidence that these "political left" people that you're talking about, have successfully made any credible move to shut down any discussion. If you are convinced that they have really tried to do this, then you must be laughing your ass off right now, since you know for sure that they definitely failed and didn't achieve even 1% of their goal. Because here we are, talking about it. Complete mission failure, "political left"!!

    Therefore, what you just said is completely irrelevent. That's like someone is attacking an enemy infantry position with howitzers and the guy in charge of the artillery says "they are trying to train mosquitos to block the incoming artillery shells." It's a hilarious thing to say, but that's what you're saying. If someone is doing what you're saying they're doing, every single person knows that plan wouldn't ever have a chance of working even a little bit.

    Maybe just stop worrying about it, and learn to enjoy their utterly futile attempts. Or accept that maybe you're wrong, and nobody is really trying to stop discussion, precisely because attempting to stop it is so futile. As you can see above, they didn't stop me. And I don't have some kind of magic keyboard. They didn't stop you, either.

    The only solution to these problems is a significant decrease in the birth rates in places like Africa, the Middle East, and India. And it can't happen later.

    Ok, here's the problem. We know for sure, without any speculation or guesswork or mysticism, that asking people to decrease their birth rates has failed. Past perfect tense, got it? This isn't something you're suggesting we try; it is a think we have tried but for some reason, we didn't get the result we wanted. They didn't take your "don't reproduce"

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. Re:Translation by Alypius · · Score: 1

    I like how the early 1980s is repeating itself. Reagan was decried as an "idiot who would get us into a nuclear war" and the Japanese were buying up real estate left and right. Today, Trump is going to say Mean Things that will make him somehow responsible for the Norks going off the deep end and the Chinese are the ones buying property. We're going to be fine.

  47. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You sound like a pussy.

    People pick up and move to new jobs all the time. Some of them even cross whole oceans to do it.

    You ancestors piss on you for your lazy 21st century excuses. "muh noritites" indeed Jimbo. KYS.

  48. Not 'Science' it is 'propaganda' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enough already. I/we get it, the world is warming & changes will happen but dressing up opinion as science doesn't get you 'buy in' it simply pisses the masses off. Seriously we aren't dumb. There is no way in their current geopolitical context to claim that any migrations of people is due to 'global warming' rather than simply people trying to get out from under oppressive regimes, away from wars caused by stupidity etc.

    The additional propaganda built in to this is that it's looking only at migrations to the EU. There is a SERIOUS amount of open land in Canada & Russia. Canada alone could house all of the world's population & give everyone ~550 square miles! Currently, alot of the land is uninhabitable (well with modern technology you could live in the north but it wouldn't be all that comfortable). IF the world warms considerably much of that land will become not just habitable but arable. And there's probably a piss pot of minerals and other shit we like to dig up for use in a modern economy.

    Enough with doomsday proclamations dressed up as 'science'. This kind of shit should NEVER be accepted for publishing in a supposed 'scientific journal'.

  49. Re:Just don't come to the US, plz by gatkinso · · Score: 2

    There is no comparison between Mexicans coming into the US, and Africans and Middle Easterners flooding into Western Europe.

    Mexicans come for jobs and are productive. Many of them already have family here. A very large chuck of the US was once Mexico. Our nations are very intertwined.

    The refugees in Europe on the other hand have zero context there. They are strangers, and immediately land in slums and start looking for handouts.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  50. It's The Free Handouts Idiots by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

    Ever notice how they're leaving all muslim countries that are by all accounts pretty shitty because they're sharia'd lawed up and then they pass through moderately wealthy Muslim places like Turkey, UAE, Saudi Arabia and still go to Europe?

    It's because they're looking for handouts from the overly generous European welfare programs and don't want to work.

    I don't blame them. If Europe is that stupid to give out free money without any plan to get you on your feet that's their own fault.

    1. Re:It's The Free Handouts Idiots by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't give handouts to men who abandoned their wives and daughters and sisters just to save their own skin. fuck them.

  51. Re:PC Indoctrination != News for Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I hear about is how hardworking immigrants are so they're clearly taking SOMEBODY'S job.

  52. The Daily Mail, tabloid journalism at its most! by XXongo · · Score: 1
    Ah, the Daily Mail!

    Have you seen the Daily Mail song?

  53. Droughts Mean Refugees / ISIS by foxalopex · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately media hasn't entirely caught on to this yet but a lot of refugees flooding into Europe are actually from Africa and it isn't because of war. This has unfortunately been going on for more years than when things blew up in Syria. Basically there are places in Africa who haven't seen rain in years and farmers who are unable to grow anything. Folks might argue California has suffered the same but folks are forgetting that these folks weren't "rich" farmers to begin with and there's no social safety net. Unfortunately it's also these same countries that have seen the rise of ISIS as well. When you can't make money, don't have food or water and your family's starving and it looks like you're going to die from starvation or thirst, radical religions which give you a sliver of hope starts to sound unfortunately sane.

  54. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You really don't get the temporal nature of population dynamics do you.

    "pussy"

    Nice touch professor.

  55. bullshit story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bullshit story, it's getting colder here in Europe, and still they come, it's mostly only for the money that they come. Germany, Netherlands, France, and such, that's where they get more money. But hey if they keep coming, maybe we can go southwards...

  56. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's either starvation or actual contraception, which the right can't get behind because it would upset the "every sperm is sacred" crowd. So they ignore the contraception option...

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  57. The inevitable solution is..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    War.

    Bioweapons.

    Massive reduction in the populations of the third world and developing nations.

    Sucks to be them, but better them than my decendants.

  58. Re: What a load of crap! by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    so says ANONYMOUS hiding are we?

  59. Climate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Humans are very adaptable to their environment, global warming is about a vague 1 degree C rise since the cold period during the 1970's, there has been a 20 year "pause" in global warming in the later half of that period. Long term, our planet is actually cooling since the Holocene climatic optimum according to all climate scientists.

    It can be ruled out that anyone is seeking asylum due to a tiny temperature measurement on a global scale.

    There is nothing wrong with immigration, people seeking asylum should be accepted with open arms regardless of their reason. Immigrants need to understand that the country accepting them expects them to integrate into their society and peacefully coexist.

    Mass immigration, the rape and pillage of a society is a tactic of warfare. There is a difference...

    Just be aware and mindful of the facts ;)

  60. Nobody knows by unixcorn · · Score: 1

    The real punchline here is that nobody has a clue of what climate change will really bring. In fact, it may make areas that are currently deserts into lush, tropical paradises. And where the people are flocking to now could become deserts.

  61. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just to pile on: This is a humanitarian catastrophe in the making, no matter what. Due to the rapid population growth in the last 25 years, the demographics in Africa are such that even if the growth is somehow halted, the population will stay at unsustainable levels for at least several decades. That's not the bad part. The catastrophe is that the only two (mutually exclusive) options are 1) stop population growth and 2) maintain a demographic development that won't become extremely top heavy (i.e. many old people with few young people to support them). European societies experienced a comparatively slow decline to reproductive rates that can just about sustain the population or cause a slow decrease in population count. Even this slow change has caused significant problems in pension and healthcare systems.

    Africa's population growth has been so rapid that the current population is very young. It will take decades before the demise of people who are currently young and make up most of Africa's demographic could offset birth rates. If Africa were to limit the population to a sustainable number, it would be facing a massive "pork cycle", a boom bust development of the population count with massive swings.

    If on the other hand, Africa tried to slow population growth gradually to avoid developing an extremely top-heavy demographic chart, then population growth would continue for decades. If it's unsustainable now, it will be catastrophic then.

    No matter how this is going to go, it's going to be terrible. Europe, with about a third of the population of Africa, will not be able to shoulder a meaningful portion of the problem. Even just a few millions of "refugees" are testing the limits of European societies. Africa adds 40 million people to its population every year. The conclusion: This is going to end with a fight to survive, for Europe, and for Africa. People who think we should welcome these "refugees" are surrendering Europe to the Africans.

  62. People everywhere else control their reproduction. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now, let's talk about everyone else, the people who don't live in those places.

    We do talk about them. In fact, there was a Slashdot submission just today entitled "Number of Births in Japan To Hit Record Low in 2017".

    Pretty much every civilized nation is at, or even well under, the replacement birth rate. That means their populations are staying roughly the same, if not shrinking over time. These people are naturally acting in a very reasonable and rather sustainable way.

    I'll be honest, I didn't actually read the rest of your comment. It was clear you're a lost cause by the time I got to your second sentence.

  63. Re: Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, &am by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Based on my reading of that comment, the reproduction rate would be brought to zero to stop additional growth.

    I'm curious how you plan on implementing this step.

  64. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If by Europe you mean the EU, then it has slightly less than 42% of Africa's population, which is closer to half than a third. If you meant all of Europe, it has over 60% of Africa's population. That's all in an area around 1/3 the size of Africa, and with an inferior growing season. Africa's population is sustainable, just not with its current poverty and lack of infrastructure.

  65. Irrellevent by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    If you provide passage to rich countries that will give you food, water, and housing for free X immigrants will always come, were X is the carrying capacity of the TRANSPORTATION.

    There has always been war and there are billions of starving people every day. The only reason we have immigrants is because we have people pushing for immigration and many of them providing transportation. The wars and famine just get in the way of this and slow it down.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  66. Re:Just don't come to the US, plz by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    I don't know about zero context. Many of these countries use European languages because of past colonial activity.

    It seems to me that Europe has some reparations it should make for the colonial era still and in return they get to do a more gentle export of their culture. If Europe wants to stem the flood of immigrants it can always put more effort into making life better for people in situ. Help them with farming tech, sponsor education. There's really no good reason why Africa should be abandoned.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  67. Skilled guest workers vs random migrants by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    A person fleeing their own nation should seek a nation with their own faith and culture.
    Not too many changes and the laws and faith share something in common their own nation.

    If the West needs workers short term why not look for the best workers other more advanced nations have to offer? Why just accept lot of very random people with no skills that will need looking after for generations?
    If all the USA wanted good workers why not bring in legal guest workers who are educated from nations that have something in common with the USA?
    Good people who share common democratic values and who want to work in the USA.
    Many nations have educated people who speak english and who share US values.
    People who really like Americana and would like to work in the USA.
    They have passports are real and they understand that they will be guest workers in the USA for a set time.
    Their governments function and can ensure the person who has the passport is the person who is getting into the USA.
    No problems with a faith that hates the West, lack of english, no having to support lots of new random people with average IQ of 85 or lower.

    Guest workers with jobs to fill in the USA would solve problems with the short term jobs market legally.
    In the long term educate people in the USA without jobs who can work in the USA to fill the jobs.
    No random migrants needed. Use guest workers that are educated for the work in the USA and then focus on educating people all over the USA.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re: Skilled guest workers vs random migrants by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Guest workers depress wages for citizens and retard national economic development. Because they have no intention or ability to stay long term, they effectively *live* in their home country's economy while *working* in America. They are not villains, but they are unwelcome guests.

      I do support making it very easy to become a citizen, on the condition one renounces citizenship in their former country. My Irish ancestors benefited from an easy citizenship policy when fleeing the famine. They were unskilled laborers who today might be derided as refugees. They certainly wouldn't have passed any elitist vetting regime. Yet they and millions of immigrants like them built this country. Immigrants were the bedrock of America's now-lost prosperity.

      Right now we have our immigration policy ass-backwards. We make legitimate immigrants - who want to start a new life and BE Americans - jump through insane hoops. While importing millions of low wage workers who have no chance of becoming Americans and contributing to the nation. Pathetic.

    2. Re: Skilled guest workers vs random migrants by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "They were unskilled laborers who today might be derided as refugees. "
      People wanted to come to the USA and embraced freedom and democracy in the past.
      That was nice when the USA was been created and was not full of people.
      Lots of small shops, factories and exporting to keep lots of people in work. A nation had to be explored, opened and cities built.
      Lots of work by hand.
      Now the USA is full of people looking for work. The skill and unskilled work is done in nations like China, Indonesia, Cambodia, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany.
      The US needs to fill some jobs seasonally, some very skilled jobs. Until it can educated and graduate its own experts.
      The need for millions of random people with no skills and that are incompatible freedom and democracy in 2018 is not so needed.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re: Skilled guest workers vs random migrants by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Isn't widespread unemployment and the resulting destitution fundamentally a symptom of dysfunctional economic management? I don't buy the narrative that there are just "too many people".

      Can we really claim there is no useful work that needs done? Surely the country has not reached some state of infrastructural and cultural perfection where that would be plausible.

      Also.. there are way too many PhDs doing menial work in call centers etc for me to accept we have any serious skills deficit. We all know many people were pushed out of the software industry, while the media was loudly bleating about a shortage of developers. The official economic narratives seem like increasingly obvious lies.

    4. Re: Skilled guest workers vs random migrants by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "doing menial work in call centers etc for me to accept we have any serious skills deficit."
      Then look after people in the USA first who want to do the "menial work". If they need more vocational support as the "menial work" needs some skill, do that.
      Why bring in random people with no skills into the USA every year when so many people in the USA with few skills are looking for work?

      Re "Can we really claim there is no useful work that needs done?"
      Find people from all over the USA who want and can work to fill such positions.
      If very unique skills are needed bring in short term guest workers from normal nations with functioning schools, governments and police.
      So each guest worker has some english skills, can show they can do the job they got accepted for and have no criminal past.
      While that is been done to support US industry short term, educated the generations of people around the USA so no guest workers are needed in later years.
      Support people in the USA looking for work and help with their further education.
      Why support more people with no skills from failed nations every year if no jobs exist for them in the USA?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  68. Re:Just don't come to the US, plz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you may not know is that european countries have sent develepment aids ranging in the billion dollars for decades already. Did it change anything? No, because of the ultra-corrupt leaders in almost all of the african countries. This will never change, no matter how much money they pump into these shitholes.

  69. May? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wake and smell the stench of the raw sewage from the refugee camps. Food shortages that result from climate change is raising temperature and temperaments all over. There are other factors, but this is is a feedback loop in the worse way. This not a "may?" situation. This is NOW!

  70. Fake News by homer1972 · · Score: 1

    I really don't like Trump but he is right on with the fake news bit. This could be one of the most ridiculous climate change stories ever.

  71. Nothing like the 80s. by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I like how the early 1980s is repeating itself.

    Speaking as someone who was around during the early 80s that statement is nonsensical. The political environment today bears almost no resemblance to the one in the early 80s. If you think it does then you either have a very selective memory or you weren't there.

    Reagan was decried as an "idiot who would get us into a nuclear war" and the Japanese were buying up real estate left and right.

    It is true that there was a lot of angst about Japan during the 80s but your assertion about Reagan was not widely held outside of a few far left kooks. Bear in mind that the Cold War was in full swing so Reagan building up our military substantially did bring a lot of justifiable concern about how the Soviets would respond. But love him or hate him, Reagan bore little resemblance to Trump and he certainly was a more decent human being and a far better president than Trump. (I say this as someone who doesn't particularly like Reagan or his politics) Trump is easily the least competent and worst performing president during my lifetime and that includes Nixon and W.

    Today, Trump is going to say Mean Things that will make him somehow responsible for the Norks going off the deep end and the Chinese are the ones buying property. We're going to be fine.

    China is a different animal than Japan. Japan is a smaller country than the US with limited natural resources. China has around 4X the people the US has and comparable natural resources. Japan has sort of reached a natural limit on their ability to grow. China has the second largest economy in the world and they have a HUGE amount of room to grow. All other things being equal one one expect China to be the dominant force the in the world economy. Yes the US will probably be fine but baring some catastrophe China is going to make a much bigger splash than Japan could ever hope to.

    As for Trump, I think it is a very real concern that he does or says something stupid to get us into another shooting war needlessly. He clearly doesn't understand or have the patience to learn the intricacies of foreign policy. He already has managed to get the UN General Assembly to condemn his policy on Jerusalem. He also seems depressingly enthusiastic to get a fight started on the Korean peninsula which will be a huge problem if the shells start flying.

  72. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

    In your fantasy world, the Religious Right still has firm control of the Republican Party.

    The rest of us have moved on. Like Trump or not, he is the leader of the GOP right now and he's not a bible thumper. Its one of the best things about him being elected. Another is that in the Election Process he killed both the Bush and the Clinton dynasties.

  73. Re:Overpopulation in Africa, the Middle East, & by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Firm control? No, but an essential part of control, certainly. Trump or not, the Republicans can't afford to lose the support of the religious right. They need every vote they can get, on top of the electoral college advantage and gerrymandering, to retain power with a minority of voters supporting them. Politically, the Republicans are living on reclaimed land and a break in any part of any dam will let in a tidal wave of leftism. They've been very lucky that the religious right has been able to look past the fact that the candidate they were given to vote for is a human avatar of sinful behavior compared to the typical politician, and they'd be wise not to strain their support further.

    Look at the VP pick, why pick an ultra-homophobic pious theocrat if not to please the religious right?

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel