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Should Plant-Based Meat Replace Beef Completely? (pbs.org)
Long-time Slashdot reader tcd004 writes: Is beef still "what's for dinner?" Plant-based meat substitute startups say they could provide enough protein to feed the world using only 2% of the land on Earth, dramatically reducing the resources required to create beef products. And adopting plant-based burgers could help reduce heart disease, protect water resources, and stop deforestation. But Beef producers say no laboratory can beat a steer's ability to turn plant-based nutrition into tasty protein, and animals are the best source for natural fertilizer to grow crops. There's a coming war for your dinner plate. Who will prevail?
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
I'd pin my hopes on vat-grown beef before a plant-based option.
Meat is amensalism, at worst. Cannibalism is murder.
We are meat eaters who self identify as vegetarians. It’s our nature.
There's lots of companies that offer plant-based meat substitutes (just look in your supermarket)..
If there was demand for this, the market is already there to provide this product.
It sounds like these people want to use force to stop people eating meat.
Give children plant-based meat, and they wouldn't like beef meat once they became an adult.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Meat is already refined grass, so it is "plant based"
Americans in particular should eat more plant matter and less meat in general, and towards that end plant-based meat substitutes may form an important part of our diet in the next 20 years. But it neither should nor can completely overthrow the beef industry.
Plants are living things too, what makes you think that its ok to eat plants but not animals?
Some unjustifiable belief that animals are more important than plants?
I don't have the answer, but this is not it
Meat is murder and must be abolished.
You are made of meat. Please kill yourself to do your part to abolish meat.
Meat is murder and must be abolished.
You are not kidding.
I could murder some fried chicken right about now...
Lots of people eat meat because it tastes good, not because of the protein.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Meat contains MANY biological substances. Protein is just one thing. Amino acids, vitamins, the things we don't know about, etc. It's a very complicated matter and humans (animals) have evolved to depend on how the current system works and for most humans, as omnivores, that includes meat at some level. It's true that different people may have very different requirements based on their ancestors so it's not a "this is good for everybody" kind of thing. Diet is a complicated subject because so many animals have evolved differently, including humans.
I mean I can get my days worth of protein from a serving of rice and beans. Does that mean it's everything I require? Not necessarily. Despite all our technology, we still don't fully understand how nutrition works. We're still basically idiots.
Give children plant-based meat, and they wouldn't live lone enough to become an adult.
Fixed that for you. Humans require meat.
Absolutely if it is equal in taste and nutrition.
Impossible Burger and Beyond Burger are growing rapidly, and might well end up capturing huge amounts of the US beef market.
https://www.fooddive.com/news/impossible-burger-making-its-way-to-foodservice-venues/507812/
Eggs will likely be replaced by plant based artificial eggs in most of the food industry.
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/06/the-worlds-first-plant-based-egg-is-putting-the-egg-industry-in-a-panic/
Hopefully most stuff made of meat will be made from plant sources in the near future. The energy savings and positive environmental impact could be extraordinary.
What an AD... Where can we BUY it??
Taste buds are not controlled by education.
Nothing beats meat for turning marginal grassland into protein. Trying to farm it, I would wager, would be MORE harmful to the environment with the sole exception of methane.
The author wants us decide for the world what they should do.
How about those who want artificial beef eat that, and those who want genuine beef eat that.
Let's not make rules for others, because bit by bit it will erode our freedoms.
Whatever you do, please dont call your "plant based" beef "Soylent Beef". That brand name has some baggage.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
On average humans who eat beef with a quality and varied diet grow strong.
A generation of smart people who can study, do sport and who are on average healthy.
Consider a population over a generation who was on a more restricted diet?
Stunted, weak, effeminate, sick. Lacking in the nutrition to grow strong and to an average normal level given good nutrition.
Ensure your population gets good food. Beef, fruit, vegetables, clean water. Access to education and sport.
Why weaken and force a generation of healthy people into malnourishment if a nation has a normal food production system?
Go to a shop, buy some vegetables, fruit, some beef and enjoy a varied and balanced diet.
Farmers are able to and happy to fill shops with a wide variety of quality organic food and meat. Enjoy all kinds of different nutritious food without been told what to eat.
If a person wants to be vegetarian or reduce their beef consumption, great for them. Share the recipes and the lifestyle.
No need to change food laws and ban beef.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Your post is so long I wondered if it was a filibuster. Is this guy trying to prevent me from seeing other peoples opinions?!
you don't win friends with salad you don't win friends with salad you don't win friends with salad
Is it made out of soy and full of phytoestrogens? I’ll pass. Don’t want to be a soy boy.
People should eat what they want. They want beef, they pay for beef, they should get beef.
What kind of world asks people to accept a sad substitute for real food? Why should we all agree to lead impoverished lives, generation after generation, forever?
So we can go to environmentalist heaven? I'd rather not.
I think we need more meat-based alternatives to plants. I would love to have beef-based peas, or goat-based broccoli.
Nope, only some populations are genetically equipped for a vegetarian diet. For the rest, lack of meat causes brain shrinkage and mental disorders. And populations that originated from Europe tend to lack such genes -- and some, like the Inuit, are even more extreme.
That's vegetarian -- vegan diet is far more harmful. Especially for children, to the point of proposed bills that outlaw feeding children vegan.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Funny how the people who wail about GMO plants have no problem with FrankenMeat.
All my meat is plant based. I just use a complex chemical reaction called "a cow" to process it.
if this is a survey, there is an obvious option missing which theoretically combines the advantages of both.
Those animals we farm for meat purposes likely wouldn't have been born at all were it not for those farms... There is very little reason to keep animals otherwise.
By not eating meat, you are denying millions of animals the right to ever exist at all.
Plants are alive too, what gives animals a greater right to life than plants?
Animals eating animals (and plants) is a part of nature, if not eaten by us in the wild those animals would likely fall prey to other predators.
When plants and animals die (of old age, disease etc) their bodies are also eaten...
Artificially engineered foods are the cause of obesity and other health problems these days. In the name of reducing things like fat and salt (which are only harmful if consumed in excessive quantities), artificial replacements have been created which are unhealthy in even small quantities, or excessive quantities of other things (eg sugar) are used. I don't expect artificially engineered meat to be any better.
Most vegans i've met don't look healthy...
Many people who don't eat meat, do eat fish... How is eating fish any different from eating meat? The fish has still been killed... If anything it's worse because many types of fish are becoming endangered and many fishing practices cause significant amounts of collateral damage. Most meat we eat comes from farms, where the animals are intentionally bred and looked after.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
And yet your job is being outsourced to a country that has outlawed killing of cows, smartie.
Meat is the most calorically efficient food on the planet. Does one suppose omnivores/carnivores evolved and spread so pervasively for no reason?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
feed the world
No. Billionaires want the poor to starve to death and reduce the excess population.
Merry Christmas.
You've been sold on lies. Consider the panda, with the digestive tract of a carnivorous bear, but with a strong preference for eating bamboo. Vegetarianism is natural and transcends biology.
I've tried all the major brands and they all taste horrible. Why are they even trying? Nothing can match the real thing.
If you're satisfied by vegetables pretending to be meat, you must be one of those people who think sex robots can replace a real human woman. How pathetic!
Go ahead. Settle for second best, almost good enough, and substitutes. I won't.
A generation could be forced into developing nation malnourishment for some big gov enforced food fad.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I want that thing to have mooed before going carnivorous. Anything other than that is a fools notion and fools are just that, a fool.
Meat is the most calorically efficient food on the planet.
Look around at your fellow humans. Dense calories was a benefit in the stone age, not today. Even in poor countries, obesity is more common than hunger.
Okay, maybe beef is 'bad" but what about pork, fish, and chicken? I mean, don't take my meat; I'm way too large for you to handle.
"the Holy Gospel according to Luke:"
Who is gonna take any notice of what he said, after watching The Last Jedi
and he destroyed all the books
We are vastly underestimating our genetic predispositions and the depth of our senses if we think that everyone will ever be happy with meat that isn't meat.
This headline is a joke. If you think yes, then go ahead and eat your tofurky, but don't teach others what to eat.
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
I'd pin my hopes on vat-grown beef before a plant-based option.
Exactly. I question the ability to produce a lot of other nutrients beside just the meat proteins.
But reading the transcript, that was a 100 percent vegan mutual masturbation session. Worse than the people that come on and bleat about how awesome it is to eat insects
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
should slashdot be renamed to soyboy.org?
the growing shift to a hard left outlet for non-nerdy news has prompted a change int he name of this once illustrious news site, now run by white knights and soyboys it is on a serious decline like all hard left news outlets.
So for health reasons, I have had to change my diet. If you haven't tried this meat substitute, it is amazing....
Seven Grain Chicken Tenders
and you can get them at Target.
Even fast food is becoming plant based. As meat prices go UP UP UP and fast food prices stay at $1.99, they need to use filler in the meat. That filler is SOY bean, which incidentally, had the largest crop ever last year. Also, don't fear the SOY, you won't grow breasts or start singing alto.
Eat less meat, more plants. You will feel better, look better, and cut your cancer risk.
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
There is not (yet) a good substitute for beef, but fake chicken is pretty good.
You're not wrong. Yet, the relative length of time humans have been able to afford the fattening of their least hardy specimens is a mere blip on the timeline of their existence.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
That's a little incongruous. Jesus was supposedly born while Herod was king, but Herod died in 4BCE, while Quirinius was not governor of Syria until 6AD.
The story doesn't add up.
You are outnumbered by vegetarian lifeforms.
I for one eat animal products because they provide complete proteins more readily and make it easy to consume lower calories. My focus is on protein intake and convenience. If there is a plant substitute, I would be all for it. I understand that I am in the minority though. I am one of those that are not wired to get a lot of excitement out of food. If it is cheap, nutritious and is versatile - I would take it. Meat should be an occasional indulgence, rather than staple.
Trouble is, things like this should cost little, but they often don't (I understand they don't have mass production advantages yet). I am puzzled on why plant based protein powders cost more than whey. I am also curious on how the gut flora react to these alternatives. My flora seem to do better on animal protein than plant protein.
I suppose you're right in a sense. Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder. Mmm..
I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
You are outnumbered by vegetarian lifeforms.
Yes, the food that my food eats.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Excellent. They taste better!
South Africa is a country of meat lovers. In the past year a great part of the country has suffered water shortages, to the point where it is frowned upon to water your garden, or an your car. People even stopped flushing the toilets in shopping centres! Except nobody realises how much latent water it takes to grow one kilogram of beef, pork, lamb or chicken.
Growing meat is incredibly taxing on water demand, I encourage everyone to research this fact. Ignorance is no excuse for acting like bigots.
Signed, Santa Claus
Actually you're full of dogshit on that.
"Plant based meat" is an oxymoron unless that's what we're calling grass fed beef now.
Panda: Non endangered mammal. Habitat: Global
The world, where the benign and omniscient government officials know better, what you should eat. They have such a good track-record. Most of the toiling masses accept this guidance voluntarily. The few cantankerous ones, who do not, need to be:
into compliance. It is mandatory, comrade...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I was given a sample of an incredibly ok faux meat at whole foods a few months back. I don't remember the name of it, because, well, I eat real meat, but it was a very decent beef imitation, and if they can bring the cost down to less than real meat I could see myself eating faux-burgers from now own. (Unfortunately it was like 1.25 times the cost of actual ground beef FROM WHOLE FOODS, which is already an inflated meat price compared to other grocers)
Or 3: You do no wish to be mistaken for a vegan.
Taste is not objective. Remember when you were a kid? Never slept at a friend's and enjoyed a family meal you'd have rejected right away at home? So you must give it a try. A small difference in taste might make no difference to your buddies while you'd find it atrocious. There are genetic differences that make some people reject broccoli for instance.
To me vegan dishes either try to taste good and can be very successful, or try to pass as meat-based and taste like third-rate food. I have yet to try worms. I like shrimps or crab, but my taste buds strangely reject the few insects I tried.
The worst food I ever tried: deep-fried silkworm at a small dirty stand by the road in Vietnam back in 2000. The oil looked over-used but the driver said they tasted OK so I tried. That's when I experienced that taste buds can overflow: I had to eat 4 to understand that the weird feeling it gave me actually meant I'd vomit if I ate a fifth...
Sales controls your gut, bro.
And which name have you given your fictional country? Had the best beef ever in Bangalore!
Additionally, we only engage in coprophagia to correct digestive deficiencies.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Don't make vegetarians look any worse because you need clickbait. Many vegs don't wear their diet on their sleeve and are merely happy to have alternatives that are as versatile as meat.
People will kill animals to eat them. We should focus on responsible, humane farming instead. We can start by enforcing some real standards for the animals' lives. Living in a cage and being pumped full of antibiotics is no way for anything to live. If you're gonna eat it, at least give it a half-decent life beforehand.
I think vegetarians and omnivores can coexist just fine. No war necessary.
Just remembered, it was called a Beyond Burger. And according to the googles it's actually a lot more expensive than I remembered, so fuck that. $12/lb is not a good price point for competing with beef, although I think it's probably tolerable for catering to the vegans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
...once we have consumed all of the vegetarians, having stood in for the role of âoeCowâ converting plant life to (presumably) tasty protein.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
$6/lb, sorry. I could have sworn there was an edit post button here back when...
* It is likely your last cucumber sandwich killed as many animals as your last hamburger.
* Humans were evolved to eat meat. To be fully vegetarian you would need a much longer digestive tract in which you could ferment plant matter like a gorilla or cow.
* Zinc, B12, and about a dozen other micro-nutrients that are NOT optional are hard to get for a vegetarian and impossible for a vegan. Popping a bunch of dietary supplements is a poor substitute and no way to live.
* There has never been a sustained human population that was fully vegetarian.
* The way we treat food animals is cruel, horrific and unconscionable. This is one area where the militant vegans and I see eye to eye. It has to stop.
* Cattle and other food animals can be easily raised on land that is not farmable. Too rocky too steep or soil where only grasses grow. The animal secretions help the ecosystem build more fertile topsoil. Other species live with cow pastures whereas plant agriculture tends toward monoculture where everything but the desired crop is poisoned and killed.
That's off the top of my head. I have a couple dozen more points but I am done for tonight.
I didn't say children eat only plant-based meat. Many ways to get proteins (tofu, Beans & Lentils. ...
Lowfat or Nonfat Dairy. ...
Fish & Shellfish. ...
Tofu & Other Soy Foods. ...
Nuts, Nut Butters & Seeds. ...
Pork Loin. ...
Eggs....)
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Panda: Habitat: Global
Global Zoos, you mean.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
So I'm a farmer, but I must confess that the beef producers are wrong about the natural fertilizer thing. The fact is that all food (human or animal) removes nutrients from the soil in which they grew. Cattle concentrate some nutrients in their manure which can be placed back on the land, but the nutrients that go into the beef itself end up in human waste products. If those are not recycled, they are removed from the farm land, and must be replaced with nutrients from another source, usually mined in the form of minerals like phosphate.
Either way you look at it, to get sustainable food production, we must recycling all organic waste, even human waste, back into farms and fields. If this loop is closed, then obviously plant-based proteins are going to be our best, most efficient bet.
I for one have no problem with replacing meat with plant proteins if we can get the taste and texture somewhat good. I'm in favor.
Man, if I've gotten a sex robot back in the 60's, I'd be a Millionaire, not have to pay child support, or having to listen to the bitch. I also had a second oportunity in the 80's. Lets say a robot is $100K for the self cleaning model. That is CHEAP compared to what a Woman will cost.
Now, the obligatory sex discriminatin thing. The MALE sex robot, is a LOT cheaper, and cleans with a paper towel.
The problem is, way I see it, What the Heck do we do with all the Women that are going to be replaced by Sex Robots?
Think of it as the tesla of meat replacements - high-end whole-foods pricing first, and then proletariat pricing once it sells in volume. Also, beyond meat isn't the only startup playing in the market. There is also Impossible Burger.
A fake steak isn't on the horizon anytime soon. But ground and shredded meat substitutes (beyond does fake chicken too) are coming along great.
Where's the beef?
Even your grammar is incorrect. Meat is a physical object. Murder is an action. They cannot be equated.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
... Plant base diet is much more adapted for human...
Vitamin B12 says otherwise.
The diet requiring less supplementation (or ideally none at all), i.e. naturally providing all necessary nutrients, would logically be the one most adapted for humans.
Desktop site does preview, then a chance to post or edit.
Mobile does not.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
NO 0xDE 0xAD 0xBE 0xEF is tastey
There are very good arguments that the state of our fellow humans today isn't due to available calories, it's due to the way we've messed with the form of those calories.
The drawback of plant-based substitute meat is that you have to put all your faith in corporate food engineering, and that industry has demonstrated on more than one occasion that they will not only take a casual attitude to towards the health of their customers, but will also actively cover up known concerns with their products.
Veganism/vegetarianism is a viable dietary strategy for humans, but it requires a lot more knowledge of nutrition in order to get all the amino acids we require than is required by just eating a steak every once in a while. It also has much less calories by volume than a diet with animal derived proteins and fats.
The only non-meat complete protein I can think of off the top of my head is the native American combo of corn beans and squash, and even with that the corn has to be nixtamalised in order to free niacin and prevent pellagra
Replacing beef with plants will do *nothing* for the starving nations of the world, because we can already feed them three times over. Source.
World hunger is not a production problem, it is a distribution problem. It will not be solved by eliminating meat from anyone's diet.
Soyrizo, in my experience, makes a pretty good chorizo substitute. Too bad I only eat chorizo a few times a year, and my wife is Mexican American.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Cannibalism isn't necessarily murder either. For example, someone dies of natural causes and afterward their flesh is eaten.
Meat was outlawed and replaced by a plant based surrogate.
But according to the series due to production of methane which carries a high impact on global warming due to being 25 times as potent as CO2.
Next there are fusion powered atmospheric converters catching CO2 and producing O2 because mankind has reduced the forest and cut off that O2 source.
Ohh wait .. the swiss are going to trial that minus the fusion powered and O2 regeneration.
You mean that country where they have designated shitting streets?
Wus da night afo’ Crizzmus, and all thru da hood,
everybody be sleepin’ and da sleepin’ be good.
We hunged up our stockins, an hoped like all heck,
dat Obama gunna brang us our checks.
All of da family, was layin’ on da flo’,
my sister wif her gurlfriend, my brother wif some snow ho.
Ashtrays was all full, empty beer cans and all
when I heared such a fuss, I thunk.”Sh’eet, must be da law”.
I pulled the sheet off da window and what I’ze could see,
I was spectin’ the sherrif, wif a warrent fo’ me.
But what did I see, made me say, “Lawd look ‘a dat!”
Dere was a huge watermelon, pulled by eight big-ass rats.
Now ovah da years, Santy Claws he be white,
but it looks like us brotha’s, got a black un’ tonight.
Faster than a poe’lice car, my homeboy he came,
and whupped up on dem rats, as he called dem by name.
On Biden, On Jessie, On Pelosi and Hillary Who,
On Fannie, On Freddie, On Ayers, and Slick Willy too.
Obama landed dat melon, right there in da street,
I knowed it fo’ sho’, - can you believe that Sheet?
Dat Santy didn’t need no chimley, he picked da lock on my do’,
an I sez to myself, “Son o’ bitch..he don did dis befo!”
He had a big bag, full of presents - at first I suspeck?
Wif “Air Jordans” and fake gold, to wear roun’ my neck.
But he left me no presents, just started stealin my shit.
He got my guns and my crack, and my new burglers kit.
Den, wif my sh*t in his bag, out da windo’ he flew,
I sho’ woulda shanked him, but he snagged my blade too!
He jumped back on dat melon, wif out even a hitch,
and waz gone in two seconds, da democrat sonofabitch.
So nex year I be hopin’, a white Santy we git,
’cause a black Santy Claws, just ain’t worf a shit!
Consider the panda
After considering the panda, I find myself wondering how you've confused pandas with humans.
You freaking communists better bring lots of guns to prize the steak out of my cold dead hands. But I'll take a bunch of you hippie commie pinko fags with me before you get me and my steak.
Should idiots like the one who posted this be allowed to bread?
The answer to both questions is NO.
Hey man how about you stop ridiculing people that like insects and instead maybe bother to TRY ONE. The insects are very tasty and are better than hormone containing beef which *will* make you hit puberty sooner and *will* make you have clogged arteries sooner. I find it telling that people like you are so quick to judge without ever trying first basically like you have a notion of what something is just by guessing at it.
It is a universally accepted fact that meat is "evil" in many ways. You are killing a living orgasm just to have something that is pleasurable to eat. That animal, whether it be a fish or a cow or a river otter or a chicken (each culture has its "tastes") has feelings and knows it's about to die when it is on the chopping block. Imagine chopping up your mother or brother. It takes about 10x the amount of energy to create a pound of meat than it does a pound of wheat. So real civilized people would instead explore novel ways to create food that does not harm other living organisms.
I really don't give a crap where it comes from. As long as it looks, smells and tastes like meat, I don't care.
We've already reached "peak child" Please educate yourself on this topic https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E
And you will be consumed by bacteria, which are now egging you on through your gut to eat more so you die soon and they can feast.
Panda also sleep for long periods and when they move they move really slowly. The food they eat would not sustain a fast metabolism.
I read this transcript, and like most well meaning generalizations, it fails to provide specific actors other than "we", "us", "the United States" and "the rest of the world."
So no, in general, without a specific actor, plant-based meat should not replace beef. That is because:
1.) There is no such thing as plant based meat. It does not exist, despite how much anyone wants it to exist.
2.) For whom should this replacement apply? I think this should be up to individuals to decide. If the costs to the planet are so high, and there is sufficient military might to enforce a global beef curtailing, then this costs should be reflected in the costs of beef. Then, if someone wants to pay actual (not externalities) then these costs should be reflected in the cost of beef. This is my opinion.
Good luck setting up your global government to enforce these price controls, or unspecified bans on beef. This is 100% impractical.
You are a tool. A metallic, humorless tool.
As long as it made the carnivore that I then ate, taste better.
Plants aren't living organisms?!?
Meat is nasty
You ever eaten elk tenderloin? Just finishing one right now, from the elk I shot two months ago. Nothing tastier in the world!
Countries that dont eat cows eat pigs. Countries that dont eat pigs eat cows. At the end of the day theyre still meat eaters.
It's very satisfying, nourishes my body and tastes good. I think I'll keep eating it.
If you like vegetable matter, good for you. Don't tell me how/what to eat and I won't hunt you food next winter. Does anyone know how grass fed vegan tastes? Is it good?
FUCK YOU
Most plants do not have nervous systems. So group them in the same basket with bacteria and fungi. They cannot feel anything as they die so are of little importance.
We should just eat people that don't like meat and can't handle the fact we love meat. They would be delicious I suspect. A fair trade.
Nope, only some populations are genetically equipped for a vegetarian diet. For the rest, lack of meat causes brain shrinkage and mental disorders.
This. There is a long out of print book by Mark Vonnegut called "The Eden Express" Mark suffered from Schizophrenia in the early 1970's, and much of his problems were based on a vegetarian diet. After stabilizing him with Thorazine and shock treatments, he went on a normal diet, and with vitamin supplements, became a normal productive person.
I tried vegatarianism in the early 1980's, and while I didn't go any crazier than I am now, it severely fucked up my digestive system. Fortunately, going back to a normal diet reset my intestinal flora.
That's vegetarian -- vegan diet is far more harmful.
I have always thought that a vegan starts out with trying to define everything in life as good or bad (this is a bad thing to do, and leads to bad mental outcomes) So they embark on a journey to try to ensure that everything they do is good.
Killing animals is bad, especially the cute ones, so eating their "corpse meat" is likewise bad. So they stop. That Chicken didn't give you permission to eat it's eggs, or that cow it's milk or the honey we callously steal from the innocent bees. So that is verboten.
So they embark on this completely irrational and artificial and un-natural diet of only things they have determined are ethically "good".
My reply to them is that just who are they to set themselves up as arbiter of what is good and bad.
All life is precious, from the lowest bacteria to yeasts, to plants, to animals. And unless a human being somehow becomes a chemoautotroph, and can surgive by directly taking minerals and digesting them, the human does not live unless the human kills another life form. No way around it. The vegan is no less a killer than the meat eaters they consider below them.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Personally I don't eat meat any more but you just have to look at the trends of the last few decades and the increasing availability of cheap mass farmed meats and the death of the traditional butcher shop to see the impact our current eating habits have on us. If we returned to meat being more of a treat we would be a lot healthier than we are but the meat industry has convinced everyone that they must eat far more meat than they actually should and worse, they have scaled up production to appalling levels inflicting terrible short lives on the animals people are eating.
I visited the USDA-MARC in Nebraska some years back and they are busy breeding animals to produce more meat with less food input and in shorter time because that's what the farmers want. The product of this intensive farming doesn't taste good compared with grass fed animals but people want (or have been convinced they want) a lot of cheap meat. Whatever technology can do to improve our diets and reduce the mistreatment of animals has got to be good. I wouldn't go so far as saying people can't eat meat, but I have to say that the amount of abuse I get from people who do eat it because I won't shows that they clearly know they're the ones on the wrong side of the fence.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Honey garlic venison sausages. Absolutely divine.
Huh? Only about 1/10 of the calories eaten by a cow becomes usable.
There MIGHT be a point. Unfortunately that's not the case.
Meat, in it's various animal forms, provides nutrients beyond just protein.
For those interested in a somewhat thick read, have a look at The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz
Made from industrial chemicals?
There's grass-fed beef. It won't satisfy people who don't eat meat for ethical reasons, but it does have less environmental impact than feedlot fattened beef.
On the other hand it's leaner, and the flavor is different and takes some getting used to. It also take somewhat more land to grow a set number of pounds of beef -- although that land isn't cultivated. Also the USDA has stopped attempting to police the term "grass fed" so you can't quite be sure whether you're actually getting grass-finished beef now. All beef cattle forage for grass at some point in their lives so you could be getting anything.
That means going with meat from a local farmer -- which is terrific in terms of quality and environmental impact, but costs a lot more on a per-pound basis.
On the other other hand consuming less of higher quality meat is probably a good thing. You don't really need that much protein. Practically everyone could probably manage an upgrade in culinary quality, healthiness and environmental impact at the same time, but it would take some thought and adjustment.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I say we start eating the PETA activists and Vegans! :-D
Then what was in the drawer on the Millenium Falcon?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
I find your comment cold, sarcastic, and frigidly chilling. How does one get a point across to someone as clothesminded as you?
How can vegetarianism persist in India?
Click bait. Release the hounds.
Plant-based meat? Ok. Synthetic meat? Why not.
But I am never, ever, touching patties made from insect meat, no matter how many "grasshoppers are the next big superfood!" articles are written.
Never gonna forget that scene from Snowpiercer. No. Thanks.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Meat's meat, and a man's gotta eat.
Hey man how about you stop ridiculing people that like insects and instead maybe bother to TRY ONE.
I've tried bees, ants, grasshoppers and larvae. Neither is something I'd want to eat again, unless it's to be polite. There's an earthy bitter taste I just can't bring myself to like, any more than I can like green tea or broccoli. I'll eat it if hungry enough, but it's not enjoyable for me.
Give me meat, and preferably heart, bone marrow and liver. Tastes and textures that make me salivate. Insects just don't do that.
The world was a better place thousands of years ago.
The article presents a false premise. Chains like sonic are now offering burgers that blend beef and mushroom to improve health and still taste good (well, for some value of good. I guess Sonic isn't the epitome of gourmet.) It seems quite reasonable that we should be able to come up with a plant-based product close enough to beef that we can blend it in burgers in a way that is either unnoticeable or actually improves the flavor. We don't really need to get to 100% in order to have significant impact.
All life is precious you insensitive clod, and you do not live unless you kill something. Plant? You killed, animal? You killed it.
Jains only eat parts of plants that can be harvested without killing the plant.
The switch to synthetic, e. coli produced insulin, raised the price of insulin by roughly a factor of 10. The synthetically produced "human" insulins are grotesquely expensive, are notably shorter duration which requires more insulin for us Type 1 diabetics, contributes to hypoglycemic unawareness which can be *deadly*, and has only a theoretical benefit in being the "human" molecule. There are some sensitivity issues, but they occur with "human" insulin as much as they do with beef or pork insulin with modern purification technologies.
In other words, we could lower the price of insulin for millions of people worldwide by roughly $200/month by making better use of animal resources that already exist. It's harvested from the slaughterhouse. It used to be harvested from slaughterhouse fetuses, because the digestive juices produced by the pancreas can be quite corrosive. But they've gotten *very* efficient at harvesting insulin from even adult cattle over the last 50 years. But no, fools have been sold on the idea that "human is better" and thus cost all that extra money every month for millions of people around the world.
I can't eat grass though, so converting grass into cow at a 10% efficiency is far still better than the 0% efficiency you get from, say, licking a lawnmower blade. There's lots of land that's suitable for growing grass and not much else. Why not raise herds of cattle on it? Tasty, renewable, full of calories and nutrients!
From "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe:"
“A green salad,” said Arthur emphatically.
“A green salad?” said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.
“Are you going to tell me,” said Arthur, “that I shouldn’t have the green salad?”
“Well,” said the animal, “I know many vegetables that are clear on that point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am.”
Need we say more?
Pandas are going extinct because of their preference for bamboo. Intervention by humans is only delaying the their eventual demise.
-- Will program for bandwidth
The quality of meat in many parts of the world is quite poor. Meat in China is not high quality, and they eat parts of the animal that westerners wouldn't like the feet of chickens. They have a choice, they just like eating that stuff, probably because the body meat isn't great quality anyway.
So plant grown meat could actually be a nice upgrade for a lot of people. Could also be good for feeding animals like pets.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
At the headquarters of Denali National Park, there is an exhibit on caribou. They do not have an easy life. Four fifth of the calves never make it to adulthood, mostly falling to predators who rip them apart and eat them alive. The survivors are plagued by swarms of biting flies and parasites that burrow tunnels in their haunches before they are weakened by age or disease, and ripped apart by a predator.
This contrasts with responsibly raised farm animals, who have room, board, and medical care, live much longer than their cousins in the wild. They certainly die more humanely than being eaten alive, in fact they die more humanely than most of us do hooked up to machines.
I grew up in the country and saw how wild animals lived. I suspect that most animal rights people’s experience with animals is limited to dog, cats, and zoos.
While on a bus at Denali, we saw a fox walk by with a bloody squirrel dripping from his jaws This was a revelation to my wife who was raised in a genteel suburb. From the oohs and aahs it caused it seemed to be a revelation to most of the passengers.
While I certainly back humane treatment of captive animals,. I think at the further end, animal rights people, isolated from nature, are projecting their human selves on animals.
...right about the time my penis becomes the standard replacement for women's vibrators.
IOW, never.
Next topic.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
How can vegetarianism persist in India?
You do know that vitamin deficiency is a big problem in India, right?
https://timesofindia.indiatime...
AFAIK, humans are the only mammals that consume dairy products during adulthood.
Panda also sleep for long periods and when they move they move really slowly. The food they eat would not sustain a fast metabolism.
Human vegans too.
They are slow as molasses
and stink up the loo.
No, it shouldn't replace any beef whatsoever. Also, vegans should start minding their own fucking business instead of telling other people how to eat.
I eat beef because I like the taste and I enjoy the fact that a cow died for it. I don't care about the cow or your stupid feelings.
Every time I see another vegan pushing this kind of bullshit, I make a conscious effort to eat more meat and to encourage my friends and family to eat more meat.
You could turn that question around and interest more people:
Should vegans go away and stop bothering meat eaters completely?
Every dog and cat I've owned LOVED milk when they could get it. They have problems with milking the damn cows though.
Hey, I'm a vegetarian and I broadly agree with your logic, except I've got a different take on the evidence...
Well let's ignore "irrational" because that's a matter of opinion, but artificial and an un-natural are good points in terms of changing what we've evolved to eat.
But then you have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy
Or earlier it's the David Hume problem of 'Is vs Ought', and how just because something is doesn't mean that it should be that way.
To be clear --- let's imagine the future of petri-dish meat... identical meat, identical protein etc, identical health properties, and it uses less resources than cows and pigs and sheep... it has the potential to reduce both environmental harm, and harm to conscious creatures.
So it would seem that you have to concede that you're talking about a problem of technology, and one that will be addressed in the next few decades.
And even today with high-protein vegan diets (e.g. Frys Vegan Food) it's a matter of money to buy the correct food. It's improved a lot since the 1980s.
So there's no philosophical justification to do things because of evolution if we can satisfy our biological demands in other ways, and there are ways of achieving that (it's not that vegetarian diets are inherently flawed, there are valid choices that are healthy). I've been vegetarian since I was 15, and basically all I do is choose another item on the menu at restaurants, buy fake meat, and I get health checkups and so far everything is fine and it's been over 20 years.
Well of course we decide that, who else would?
There is no objective measure of good and bad, so of course it's subjective.
I'm not religious so I don't think there is a higher authority, nor do any philosophers (unless they prescribe to a supernatural authority).
So of course it's subjective, and I don't see that self-choice of right and wrong is any criticism... there are people who would like to pretend that they have more authority (gods, popular social opinion, etc.) but these things change and we don't really have any objective measure.
and here's the core of your argument, and I think it's not what vegetarians think at all.
When you walk down the street you will smear bacteria underfoot but no one really considers that (except for extremist Jainists)
Most vegetarians don't think all life is precious, they think conscious life is precious, and specifically consciousness requires a central nervous system (or similar) to transmit signals of damage to other sections. Plants have nothing like that, oysters don't either.
And yes that's a subjective measure but so is everything.
So for me it's like buying sweatshop shoes... I don't like the supply chain of sweat shops or meat so if I'm aware of that (and it's easier to do with meat, it's right there, on your plate) so I choose other options. No health effects if I choose correctly. Better outcomes for global warming.
In summary, I appreciate your comment and I broadly agree with your logic except for some key mistakes that I believe you've made. Meat eaters are fine, but I do think they've made ethical mistakes.
Jains only eat parts of plants that can be harvested without killing the plant.
You can be just as humane with animals - just eat parts that can be harvested without killing the animal. Have you never wondered where all those one-legged chicken come from?
There's a coming war for my dinner plate?
No, there really isn't. I'm from Alberta. I like my beef slapped on the ass and tossed on my plate, preferably still mooing. If it's cow farts that are going to destroy the earth, just let the end come. I'll be sitting down to my seasoned and seared pound and a half prime rib dinner when it arrives.
Well, lets just ignore the moral questions about eating meat for a moment. There is a bigger problem that will likely decide the issue. It takes quite a bit of grain and water to raise animals for food. This isn't a big deal when you have 100 million people on the planet, but it gets to be a problem when the world population climbs towards the 10 billion plus mark.
Assuming that moral views of meat doesn't change, and that science doesn't invent a way to just grow protein in a vat using only sunlight, the cost of the resources required to grow the animals will likely put a hamburger out of reach for a lot of people. So, change is coming one way or another.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Web Page is Blank. Anything posted on a malware site should not be taken seriously (actually, it should not be taken at all).
A good ground patty is easier than a steak. For small pieces extrusion techniques can somewhat emulate muscle fibers, mostly used to emulate chicken chunks, but that doesn't work for larger pieces.
There is nothing magical about meat, it's just chemicals. I doubt there is any nutritionally useful chemical in meat we can't already mass produce cheaply.
Stuff like Coenzyme Q10, hydroxocobalamin (B12 as it occurs in meat), L-carnosine, Taurine etc. are not common in vegan diets ... but you can just fortify the food.
I am 100% vegan. I only eat animal products sourced from plants. Do you know how much concentrated vegetables are contained in that 2 lb Prime Rib Steak? You would explode if you tried to eat them all at once. Pre-processing via a steer makes the volume manageable.
educate woman, encourage 1 -1.9 children per fertile female, women will have fewer kids, population drops, we can all live like kings. take 200 years tops.
What you're avoiding is that some animals have nervous systems and cognition. If you respect intelligence and sentience, that should be protected. Cows are not stupid. Pigs are quite smart. Plants have basically nothing going on beyond failure sensors. Comparing all as if equal is really dumb, in my view.
It's not just the amino acids. There's a whole bunch of stuff in animal products that are lacking in plants. Vitamin B12 is the major example, but also vitamin D and EHA/DHA oils.
Dogs can probably tear open the udders.
Whenever someone asks, "but if you don't eat meat, what do you eat?"
I say, "Ever hear of Chicken Parmesan?
Chicken Fettuccine?
Chicken Cordon Bleu?
Chicken Nuggets?
a different brand of Chicken Nuggets?
Lemon Chicken?
Chicken Alfredo?
Chicken Lasagna?
Chicken Sandwich?
Breaded Chicken Sandwich?
ok, now all those things taste different right? The one thing that's the same is the chicken. It's the not-meat that gives it all the flavor. The meat is really just there to stick all the flavor to."
Do you really trust the big food industry to make stuff that's actually healthy, instead of food that mostly feeds their bottom line ?
There is no plant-based 'meat' of 'beef', etc.
Meat, beef, chicken, fish, and any other (edible) animal based food product contains essential amino-acids that you cannot easily get from plant-based substitutes. Scrapping these food stuffs from your diet means a lifetime of taking supplements for the essential chemical ingredients of your own body you are then missing out on.
And on the Eighth Day, Man created God.
If we produced food more efficiently, all that would translate to is an increase in population until again demand for food is matched by production. But along with that comes all the extra demands of a higher population unrelated to food consumption. It'd be bad for the planet.
As someone with both Celiac disease and Iron-based Anemia I'll stick to my High Beef/Meat diet... Until a GOOD meat replacement comes along thats Wheat/Gluten free and emulates all the nutrients/properties of Beef then its still no bueno!
To say nothing of the unknown long-term consequences. The food scientists SWEAR they'll get it right this time around. Just forget about their utter cockup on transfat in the 60s, sugar in the 70s (Fuck You, Ancel Keys), HFCS in the 80s, eggs-are-death in the 90s, millions of tons of roundup soaking our consumed grains from 2000 onwards (seriously, look at how much growth glyphosate use has had in the last 20 years, including use immediately before harvest to dry the crop). Oh, and just about ALL of this (the push towards veganism included) is tied to the fertilizer industry - otherwise known as the nitrogen-fixation arm of the military-industrial complex.
Food science has always been political and profit-motivated. There is NOTHING in these assholes' agendas about long-term health for a population. The peons are most profitable when they die immediately after retirement or slightly before.
Replace "vegan" with "person".
You're actually describing all dietary laws.
And they can reply back, "I'm eating plants because it's ecologically more sound virtually across the board to eating meat." Will that shut you up, or will you keep on ranting your unwanted and unbased opinion?
Your persecution complex is showing. Do you feel the same way about everyone else who doesn't believe exactly the same things you do who may view your actions as beneath them? Or are you limiting yourself to the vegans who explicitly treat you as inferior to them? Simply put, not all vegans are doing it because of "killing animals is bad, especially the cute ones". Honestly, I don't know how many have it down to that simple logic. But if you want, I can extrapolate the opposite and presume omnivores think killing animals is good. Put in that perspective, omnivores are monsters.
I eat meat because I hate animals, and want them to die. I like vegetables that are very nice and friendly and are always being eaten by the mean animals. I am just getting vengeance for all my vegetable friends that are not able to defend themselves against the mean cows. This is the best part of masculinity. That is the protector class.
So no Bean burgers for me. All good decent non terrorists think and feel the way I do. If you eat helpless vegetables, you might as well say you like Aldolf Hitler and get sexually aroused by killing black babies. Stop eating plants you black baby killing, Hitler loving, terrorist.
Look around at your fellow humans. Dense calories was a benefit in the stone age, not today. Even in poor countries, obesity is more common than hunger.
Obesity can be blamed almost entirely on carbohydrates.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
They can call it "Soylent". And I'm sure it wouldn't take much thought to come up with a colour scheme so consumers could quickly and conveniently identify the various varieties.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Most plants do not have nervous systems. So group them in the same basket with bacteria and fungi. They cannot feel anything as they die so are of little importance.
And you know that a nervous system is the only way for a living organism to experience pain how? Plants evolve to suit their environment just as animals due. The sweet smell of a freshly mown yard is their cry for help.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Vegetarianism is not veganism.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
A poor memory is a sign of Soy Boy Syndrome and B12 deficiency.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Choice between sfomey grilled insects and 'real meat' obviously leads to eating both.
Ever eat prawns or shrimps? Most insects taste in the middle between sea food and nuts, grilled nuts. In otrqhero words: they don't even compare with most meats.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's"
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
No offense, but when people don't like Broccoli (or insert hate vegetable here) I really wonder what is wrong with their tongues.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
We need to consume the animals souls too, in order to revivify our life force. Kind of like space vampires need to do with humans.
It's why most human religious festivals require the death of animals and the consumption of their flesh, for example turkey at Christmas.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
So, you're saying All Lives Matter then?
Checks the date - nope not April 1st. someone seriously wrote this.
All plant based meat substitutes I have ever tried have tasted, and looked like reconstituted cardboard, or just like the vegetables they are made from.
Narnia
Why do we need high energy density foods? Outside of disaster relief situations.
Or a bulking agent.
Fake-meat does not taste quite as nice as real-meat. But what about, say, a mince that is 25% meat and 75% meat substitute?
Beef is substandard compared to veal, pork, rabbit, venison. There really isn't a good reason to eat beef, and most of the planet in fact does not eat beef but enjoy a proper cuts of pork. (as a note US does cut their port quite badly and end up throwing most of the best pieces)
That's why I always take a fiber pill after eating a vegan. Helps move them faster thru the tract, and absorbs some of the odor.
Tho I still do a courtesy flush, just because.
Is the beef industry any better? Brazil beef scandal? This is a problem with corporations, not the product.
Global warming might be solved by eliminating meat from people's diets, though. The carbon emissions of meat and especially of beef are extremely high compared to plant food, as is the land use. I eat meat because it tastes better and is cheap -- but perhaps it would be a good idea to tax meat for the external effects it has.
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There's no need for total vegetarianism. Almost everyone in the developed world - which is fast becoming a lot more of the world than it once was - eats far more meat than is required to maintain health. Just cut it back.
Or you can just eat a bit of meat. Cut back without completely cutting out.
I like broccoli when I manage to give them some taste. They are very taste-resistent.
No, it is not.
Read a book about it.
First of all, meat only has half the calories per weight than carbs or fat.
Secondly, to yield a certain amount of calories via meat, you have to feed the animal ten times as much food, that is mot efficient in any meaningfull way.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Nice quotes. :)
You shocked me, so I followed and read every one of your links.
And every linked page suggests no such things as you claim they do, and often quite the opposite conclusion to yours.
Awesome trolling skills
I salute you, sir!
"But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value."
Clearly, you're not a vegetarian, and just talking out of your ass to bring up "vat-grown beef", just because you personally think that sounds like a nice alternative that will allow you to keep eating meat.
First of all, not a good substitute in terms of texture? You must be joking. Then the nutritional value, that's fine. Finally, the taste; as a 20+ year vegetarian I can tell you it varies. But there are more and more, and better and better, meat alternatives, and some taste really good. The (Dutch) super market I go to (AH) has a whole wall of 30+ different kinds of them. Just give them all a try, say one each week, and I'm sure you'll find more than a handful that taste great.
Longtime vegan here. You don't know what you are talking about at all. There are plenty of elite vegan athletes in the world, you are all arguing against unhealthy diets, not veganism. Anyone can get 100% of their nutrition from a 100% plant-based diet. There are lots of healthy vegans. I have been an athlete most of my adult life and have regularly outperformed "omnivores", particularly in endurance events which favor my body build. I love meeting people who think my diet holds me back, but usually I don't talk about it because it's not a big deal to me. I've known people for years before they found out I was vegan, I don't consider myself above anyone because of my diet. Don't think so hard about some anonymous mind that you know nothing about. I find that veganism can put people in an uncomfortable place, like somehow they are judged by someone choosing to not do what they do. Next people put words in my mouth before I've even said anything. Do what you want, but the whole world simply cannot eat meat on the scale that the U.S. does. The idea that I can't have a subtle understanding of reality somehow because of my diet is insulting, ignorant, and absurd.
no
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Just because you consider non-humans to be lesser beings doesn't mean you haven't taken the life of another living and feeling creature and prematurely ended it for your own personal pleasures.
Once upon a time it was considered acceptable to kill beasts en mass in order to make fur coats. Today it is considered inhumane and cruel. How much longer do you think society will go before your killing of beasts is considered inhumane and cruel?
Plant-based meat is an oxymoron.
I like meat and will gladly kill animals to eat them. I even enjoy their unborn children.
I don't care about your personification of my tasty treats. You are a crazy person.
I know many vegetarians and vegans, and the seem to be absolutely fine, and hold down responsible jobs requiring application of higher thinking skills, despite being vegetarians or vegans for decades. I'd want to see better evidence for the claims than a newspaper article and one anecdote.
Vaginatarians are as stupid as their malnourished dumbfucking cocksucking libturd faces.
You are killing a living orgasm just to have something that is pleasurable to eat.
I cant speak for the rest of you, but I’d take the living orgasm over the tasty food, any day of the week.
#DeleteChrome
I'll eat meat if I damned well please. Your approval is neither sought nor required.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The Gospel according to Yoda
How many pests are killed to protect that plant from getting eaten from non humans. Organic pesticides and bringing/raising predatory animals to protect the crops kills thousands/millions of animals to keep that bean alive so you can eat it.
As an animal who cannot photosynthesis or extract nutrients from minerals, our lives are dependent on killing others for our nutrient. Our ancestors knew this that had to deal with it every day. Today a lot of the details of our food preparation and a culture afraid to face death in any form makes it seem like we can have a our cake without having cost the lives of thousands of animals.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Amen-salism is where you say a little prayer before you kill it and eat it.
Why do we need high energy density foods? Outside of disaster relief situations.
We don't, for the most part, in the food wealthy first-world.
Neither do we need the leftover evolutionary penchant for sweets that survives in us from when eating the ripest fruits was an evolutionary advantage for our primate ancestors... because the sweetest fruits pack the most caloric energy.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
No, it is not. Read a book about it. First of all, meat only has half the calories per weight than carbs or fat. Secondly, to yield a certain amount of calories via meat, you have to feed the animal ten times as much food, that is mot efficient in any meaningfull way.
Where do you source your calorically dense fat?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
And you will be consumed by bacteria, which are now egging you on through your gut to eat more so you die soon and they can feast.
Unless there's some truth that we, and all animals, live symbiotically as a host for these microorganisms.
In a mutualistic relationship, both the bacteria and the host benefit. For example, there are several kinds of bacteria that live on the skin and inside the mouth, nose, throat, and intestines of humans and animals. These bacteria receive a place to live and feed while keeping other harmful microbes from taking up residence. Bacteria in the digestive system assist in nutrient metabolism, vitamin production, and waste processing. They also aid in the host's immune system response to pathogenic bacteria.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
I find your comment cold, sarcastic, and frigidly chilling. How does one get a point across to someone as clothesminded as you?
Clearly, you come bearing the the gift of a nice suit, preferably from Savile Row.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
Ironically, I feel the same way about red meat. In terms of what a human requires, beef does provide protein and fat and some vitamins. But it is not an essential source of protein mainly due to the fact that, of all the things humans need, we only need simple sugars less than we need protein. IOW, compared to what we need most, relatively we need much less protein. My biggest complaint about red meat is the emphasis placed on it, and there are no great reasons for having such a large beef industry. Maybe as a global human population, we absolutely NEED about an order of magnitude less of the beef produced. But beef, especially to Americans, is like Apple stuff to Apple fans.
Mostly I feel that reasonable sounding positions, such as yours, are manufactured by the beef industry, and you aren't even aware nor care that beef isn't what you think it is, not really, considering you don't actually need it, no one does, and it isn't all that nutritious considering what it does give that we need is among the less needed essential nutrients that have myriad other sources less resource intensive to produce and less of a problem for the environment.
tl;dr Beef is a Goddamn lie.
Meat is the most calorically efficient food on the planet.
Maybe on your planet. On planet Earth it's not even close.
Agriculture is only responsible for 10-15% of GHG emissions, and meat is only a portion of that.
F**K NO! Are you INSANE?
Let's work on not killing each other first 'K? In the mean time I am eating meat. We are after all omnivores.
I'd go plant based in a heartbeat. Also, I kinda like animals.
If they can produce something with a similar cost, taste, texture, smell & nutrition to standard meat I'm all for it. I'm sure plant based "meats" can fit a few of those criteria, but I'm a bit dubious as to it filling all of them.
This is why so few nutrition-alert cannibals eat Indians.
Want to radicalize me , ban eating meat - I will start eating humans
Yes, let them eat fake meat and ride their tricycles all over. Stupid children.
1) In developed nations, over-nutrition is a *far* greater problem than under nutrition. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes, colon cancer, and other such maladies are far greater problems than anything caused by under nutriment.
2) In developed nations, lack of fibre is far more common than lack of protein.
3) Supplements cost a few pennies a day. Many meat eaters also suffer from various vitamin deficiencies.
4) Numerous scientific studies prove that a properly managed vegan diet is, at least, adequate, if not superior.
5) Some organizations that advocate a vegan diet include: American Diabetes Association, World Health Organization, American Dietetic Association, British Dietetic Association, and the American Heart Association. Dr. Kim Williams, president of the American College of Cardiology and chief of cardiology at Rush University, advocates a plant-based diet for heart disease prevention.
6) Several world-class athletes are vegans.
Just curious: how do you think vegans impose their life style on you? Did somebody point a gun at head?
If both taste and texture are similar or even superior, it should absolutely replace beef, but if it's an inferior replacement that taste nothing like beef and is overall disgusting (like the current "veggie burgers" we find in stores today... ugh), it shouldn't replace beef at all.
... Should Plant-Based Meat Replace Beef Completely? ...
Maybe at some point plant protein will replace animal protein, or maybe not. Whether or not it"should" happen is up to those who consume the animal based protein.
About 99% of the meat consumed in the US is from factory farms.
The quality of meat in many parts of the world is quite poor. Meat in China is not high quality, and they eat parts of the animal that westerners wouldn't like the feet of chickens
Actually, eating that meat is better for you than purely muscle meat. See for example cat food: manufacturers add bone ash to it to avoid nutritional deficiencies. Natural cat food (ie, a tit or a mouse) gets eaten whole (save for biggest flight feathers): bones, guts, connective tissue, plumage, beak -- everything, this includes substances absent or scarce in regular meat.
Thus, Chinese meat-eating diet is better than ours.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Don't you have it backwards? If we're wanting to go with a more plant based diet, doesn't it seem correct that we need more CO2 in the atmosphere and warmer temperatures to ensure we have sufficient plant growth year round to meet demand? See cows can live through most winters, plants can't, so if it gets warmer and there is more CO2 - plant food - then we'd be able to produce more plant based foods.
Indeed - I actually prefer it to the greasy mess that is normal chorizo. If you're looking for excuses to eat it, I find it quite tasty fried up and poured into a waffle iron before adding the batter.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Malnutrition is a big problem there. You're thinking veganism, egg and milk will provide more than enough B12/K-vitamins.
Replacements are no problem today already, just find the right recipes and well-rounded cooks.
There's no silver bullets, but there are a lot of different sectors that have a 10-20% contribution. If we can halve several of them we'll be well on our way to solving the problem. Or at least buying enough time to come up with more thorough solutions.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Insects aren't living organisms?
Are there carnivorous bears? Other than the polar bears, who live in a basically plant-free environment at least? Everything I've heard is that bears are mostly plant-heavy omnivores whose diets are primarily fruits, nuts, and insects. Though they're also opportunistic predators and not above scavenging.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Can't say I trust the agricultural industry either. Your average chunk of limp, fatty beef/pork/chicken/etc. would be barely recognizable as meat to our ancestors of a few centuries ago. Ditto most of our modern flavorless, low-nutrient fruits and vegetables.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
The fucking article wants to save the animals at the expense of plants!
I say fuck cows! Who gave them the right to sacrifice plants? For every animal spared, hundreds if not thousands to plants have to die! That is fucking discrimination! Just because plants do not have the ability to scream, cry or protest they are being treated as the underclass of society being sacrificed so that animals who can evoke sympathy gears off Scott free! Fuck these hypocrites! Or are they jealous of the superior evolution of plants? Does the gaining of superior immunity to pain make it ok to take their lives? Why do more plants have to die in place of animals because these base people cannot pull their heads out of their asses to think for once???!!!?
If a human does not feel pain and cannot protest or react is it ok to eat them? If not, why is it ok to eat plants?
I know many vegetarians and vegans, and the seem to be absolutely fine, and hold down responsible jobs requiring application of higher thinking skills, despite being vegetarians or vegans for decades. I'd want to see better evidence for the claims than a newspaper article and one anecdote.
Something stopping you?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Depends on your goals...
If your goal is to create centralized, industrialized, Big Ag food then plant based pseudo meat works great.
If your goal is decentralized, small farm, local economies then pasture based grazing animal based real meat works great.
Frankly, there is no need to call plant based foods meat - that is deception. Call them what they are: Highly processed plant based foods.
I'll take the real thing any day.
Longtime vegan here. You don't know what you are talking about at all.
That is the response one would get from a vegan. Being insulted and at base, condescending. Yet managing to miss the point by fixating on your trigger words.
Eliminating meat from the diet is very bad for some people. This is not open for debate except by people who somehow trump reality with their opinion. Some people actually go insane. In my case, I merely wrecked my digestive system for a year by going lacto-ovarian.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So, you're saying All Lives Matter then?
Matter matters.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
So is the amount of time white folks and black folks could use the same water fountain. What's your point?
Should beef-based plants replace vegetarian meals?
Itâ(TM)s called a cow. What do you think cows eat?
PLANTS! A cow is basically a walking plant.
It is considered inhumane by some people.
The sort of people who don't particularly think about things.
birth rates are dropping in pretty much every first world nation. Usually well below sustainability. It's become clear that, given options, people will control the population just fine. The birth rate stays high in poor countries because children are basically their retirement plan.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Right. Because they never keep cows in sheds/pens and feed them corn.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Meat is the most calorically efficient food on the planet.
Incorrect; fructose has been shown to be far more efficient of a fuel source for the human metabolism than fat or protein.
Stranger in Strange Land was not a how-to guide.
Speak for yourself. I find meat pretty damn palatable by itself.
Funny how different people all get lumped into the same categories by morons who can't help but oversimplify everything in their futile attempts to understand the world.
You know what tastes like meat 100% of the time?
Meat.
There's a whole wall of them at the supermarket, and each one of them tastes exactly like meat!
We are after all omnivores.
Sure, based on our behavior but certainly not our biology; anyone who's actually studied human morphology - and compared it to that of an actual omnivore - can see that humans posses lengthy digestive tracts that are clearly optimized for fruits, shoots and roots.
But gone on and eat your burgers; life's already short; shorten it some more. ;)
The difference is that frankenmeat poses little risk of escaping the lab and altering the genetics of wild meat, I suppose...
A large portion of the grain grown goes to feed animals that provides us our protein. Having plants provide this protein would significantly reduce our foot print and reduce pollution.
He wouldnâ(TM)t have made them out of meat.
Choice between sfomey grilled insects and 'real meat' obviously leads to eating both. Ever eat prawns or shrimps? Most insects taste in the middle between sea food and nuts, grilled nuts. In otrqhero words: they don't even compare with most meats.
Might as well get it out of the way - everyone eats insects at some point. If we eat grain products, we are getting a certain amount of insect matter. There is an allowable amount of every manner of matter including fecal matter.
As for Prawns/shrimp, sure. I love them boiled in beer and Old Bay seasoning. Or sauteed in butter or garlic. And Lobster too. But they have meat on them. Identifiable meat.
Now we return to the insects. I devein shrimp. Deveining is a nice word for removing the instestinal tract. That is fecal matter I'm removing. I eat the tails and claws on a lobster. But when we eat crickets or grubs, or whatever insect suits one's fancy, we are consuming their excrement as well as whatever protein they posesss. Note that this is partially acknowledged by the practice of feeding escargot snails cabbage for a short time before they are eaten. But cabbage manure is still manure.
Me? No thanks. I'm just not a person who purposely eats shit.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
In other words, Soylent Green is people.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Beef producers say no laboratory can beat a steer's ability to turn plant-based nutrition into tasty [emphasis added] protein
Remove the word "tasty" - which, needless to say, is highly subjective - and you have a pants-on-fire-class false statement. Beef is consistently ranked near the bottom of charts of "acres of land per (g of protein / year)" and "carbon footprint / g of protein", below other animal-based protein sources, which in turn are ranked below plant-based protein sources. As would be expected based on basic bio-energetical considerations.
This is basically a falsehood turned into a non-falsifiable statement by the addition of a weasel word that will be overlooked by most readers. FUD production 101.
Posted anonymously to preserve moderation.
What you're avoiding is that some animals have nervous systems and cognition. If you respect intelligence and sentience, that should be protected. Cows are not stupid. Pigs are quite smart. Plants have basically nothing going on beyond failure sensors. Comparing all as if equal is really dumb, in my view.
So you will eat anything that isn't sentient? You just fell into the trap that has vegans arguing about whether oysters are vegan or not.
https://www.thekitchn.com/what...
I make my decisions on what to eat by what my body was designed to eat. Humans are by nature omnivores. That some would adopt a prey diet, and try to justify it on ethical grounds is just another inconsistency in their logic. Is a vulture evil? Is a lion or other frank carnivore evil? Is a horse or Pika good because they eat only vegetation? Humans are a part of nature. We do have the ability to choose to harvest the meat that we eat in as humane way as possible, which I wholeheartedly believe in.
But we are still omnivores.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Because people arguing about it need to create a false dichotomy of one of the other.... same thing with politics and computers and just about everything.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
All those frogs on crutches. It is definitely cruel.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
I like broccoli and spinach, but green beans literally make me want to vomit (and I have vomited, being forced to eat green beans by my mom at one point). I am not kidding.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
He probably also believes that you can get milk from soybeans! It's soy JUICE - not soy milk!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Feedlots where cattle are knee deep in their own shit and get so sick they have to be picked up by forklifts, pigs are raised in "gestational crates" so tight they cannot turn around, chickens that trample each other to death before being violently thrown into cages by farm hands.
The overwhelming majority of U.S. meat is raised on such farms, not living in an Amish free range paradise.
Goddamned Hippies.
good thing those non-human carnivores can't feel their dinner's emotions. or maybe crocodile tears are...
Even at the cost of destroying land, generating large amounts of a powerful greenhouse gas, draining aquifers in arid areas to give them water, packing them so tightly in factory farms they're knee deep in their own waste - what isn't there for a conservative to love here?
fructose has been shown to be far more efficient of a fuel source for the human metabolism than fat or protein.
Most cells in your body cannot metabolize fructose. Instead, it goes to the liver first, and excess amounts of fructose (typical for a highly refined junk western diet) lead to hypertriglyceridemia, and fat deposits inside the liver tissue itself (non-alcoholic fatty liver disease).
...it's normal for the plains of America, at least, to be covered with 65 million buffalo. While that state wouldn't produce nearly as much meat as is consumed today, you wouldn't have to substitute entirely.
Why, when we've been overproducing carbon dioxide since the industrial revolution? And the carbon taken out of the air would just be carbon again on the topsoil - it's not sequestering it deep underground to replace all the oil and coal that has been burned.
Truly a great idea. However, in order to assure continued survival of carnivore species, dead humans should be chopped up and fed to wild carnivores. Think of it as reparations.
I don't know which is worse, genetically modified plants or anti-biotic / hormone infused maltreated animals.
It's kind of a " damned if you do, damned if you don't " thing :|
You might want to research the photosynthetic pathways of staple foods and their resistance to higher temperatures and revise your views.
That's vegetarian -- vegan diet is far more harmful.
I have always thought that a vegan starts out with trying to define everything in life as good or bad (this is a bad thing to do, and leads to bad mental outcomes) So they embark on a journey to try to ensure that everything they do is good.
Killing animals is bad, especially the cute ones, so eating their "corpse meat" is likewise bad. So they stop. That Chicken didn't give you permission to eat it's eggs, or that cow it's milk or the honey we callously steal from the innocent bees. So that is verboten.
So they embark on this completely irrational and artificial and un-natural diet of only things they have determined are ethically "good".
My reply to them is that just who are they to set themselves up as arbiter of what is good and bad.
All life is precious, from the lowest bacteria to yeasts, to plants, to animals. And unless a human being somehow becomes a chemoautotroph, and can surgive by directly taking minerals and digesting them, the human does not live unless the human kills another life form. No way around it. The vegan is no less a killer than the meat eaters they consider below them.
That very well sums up every vegan I've ever known, they're like the food version of a born again Christian who is suddenly trying to make up for perceived past transgressions.
Betteridge's law of headlines
Should headlines beginning with the word "should" be also included?
Appropriate stock answer:
Yes, of course, if there's still enough room on your stone tablet.
Note: I said, "responsibly raised". I am aware of the horrors of factory farming, I eat little meat, and when I do, I look at the sourcing.
Fuck it it up its stupid ass. The "free market" caused the Dust Bowl, is draining aquifers in arid areas that will take thousands of years to refill, drove the dodo bird and passenger pigeon to extinction, and would do the same to bluefin tuna, rhinos, elephants, tigers and manatees.
Fuck the free market.
There are plenty of reasons to reduce beef production that don't have anything to do with hippies, vegans or PETA. Cattle cause damage to the land, take enormous amounts of food and water to raise (draining aquifers in arid areas like California), produce a powerful greenhouse gas and are raised in brutal factory farms where they walk knee deep in their own waste and carried by forklifts to processing when they are too sick to even walk.
I agree. When I cannot tell the difference between a top quality sirloin steak and a plant based substitute, then MAYBE we should think about replacing beef. Until then, the veganuts can dream all they want, but it is NOT going to happen! The fact is that there has not yet been a plant based meat substitute that is comparable in taste, texture, and nutritional value to what it is supposed to be replacing. And the plain facts are that the world could never adequately feed its population if even a significant fraction of the population were vegans.
Oh, and for you vegans out there, do you really not use any animal-based products? Are you really sure? Did you know that most plastics are petroleum based? So what you say? Well, all of the crude oil ever pumped out of the ground is the remains of dead dinosaurs! Yep, most plastics are made from or contain the remains of dead animals. On top of that, many wood products are finished in petroleum based varnishes and stains. I could go on, but you hypocritical vegans get the point.
humans posses lengthy digestive tracts that are clearly optimized for fruits, shoots and roots.
Chimps eat a lot of fruit and shoots. Their colon (where they ferment plant matter) is about twice our size, and their long intestine is about half our size (where we digest meat).
Meat is murder and must be abolished.
Eating unnatural foods is murder. Look at all the damage unnatural and plant based fats have done in the Western diet, leading to oxidized LDL and the associated heart disease and cancers.
Lard and tallow and chickens and beef and pork and fish and escargo for me, consistent with healthier ratios of saturated and unsaturated fats.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Uh huh. Then you know that farm animals do not have it better than wild ones, which was the point of your post. Not when the "responsibly raised" livestock make up a small fraction of the market.
A family of wild pigs where one in six piglets survives to adulthood have it much better off than a family born in gestational crates, where they can't socialize or clean themselves, much less turn around.
That picture is one of a destination point, not a rear-pen. You can tell because there's absolutely nothing there for maintenance, not even your corn. What were you trying to prove with a shot of a stockyards outside of say, a slaughterhouse?
Mad cow disease survives 700 F. Recycling mammal waste after "treatment" could serve as population control.
Here's the morphology of chimp, orang and human.
According to your hypotheses, chimps are greater consumers of meat than we are. This is not the case.
Explain why orangutans have a long intestine as long as ours.
Bad title -- sorry.
No, it is not. You're just projecting your desires.
You equate chopping up a blood relative to chopping up an animal for food?
Is not all "meat" plant based? That is to say that "Meat" eats plants. Some Meats eat other Meats which eat plants. Some Meats eat only other Meats which eat plants. Eventually, if one follows the "eat" trail one will arrive at plants. There are no "Meats" naturally existing that do not derive sustenance from Plants, either directly or indirectly.
Therefore all "Meats" are plant based.
Also, both Plants and Meats are non-renewable resources. Eventually the fussion-fission reactions in the Sun will cease (because they consumed resources that are non-renewed) and all life based conversion of Solar energy will cease (such as Plants and the Meats derived therefrom and the Meats derived therefrom, ad infinitum).
Then you'll probably want to eat less animal meat.
However you may miss the taste of meat. The good news is that these days there are some very very good substitutes. I have often thought about performing a blind taste on some meat eaters to see if they could tell the difference between say a soya sausage and a meat sausage.
Why not try it for yourself? Wouldn't it be wonderful to discover that you can replace some of your animal based meat (or all of it? :-) with plant based substitutes and not notice any real difference to your eating pleasure.
Cleerline
Not terribly sure that local farm beef is all that much more expensive. I have a friend that runs 10 to 20 head of cattle on a small farm as a side thing. Me and my family dont eat a lot of red meat, but we generally get a quarter cow off of him every year which comes to about 100-125lbs of processed meat. After paying him, then the butcher to process it, we generally pay a little over $6/lb. Granted I can get ground meat for about $2/lb in the grocery store but I am paying about $6/lb for a good joint or roast at the grocery store adnd far more than that for high quality cuts and steaks. I get over half of my processed meat in the form of joints and steaks, plus they throw in the bones for me so I can make stock. It is not as expensive as most people think and it is better for the environment to go local.
News flash.
Animals don't make proteins. All protein comes from plants.
Animals are just a very inefficient mechanism of converting plant protein to unhealthy animal protein.
Better to eat lower on the food chain. Fewer toxins, no saturated fat, Better for the planet.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Actually, my daughter was just telling about eating stone crabs in Florida. Apparently, the only harvest one claw of the crab, throw it back and it grows a new one. (Rinse, repeat)
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
B12 doesn't say otherwise. We used to get our B12 from eating plants with dirt on them and drinking from streams, lakes, etc...
Now we sterilize everything killing the bacteria that produces B12.
We also supplement the diets of the animals so they get their B12 because most anumals come from facroy farms and are pumped with antibiotics. So you are supplementing just once removed, the downside is you get all the bad(excess fat, cholesterol, growth hormones, etc.. ) when you eat animal products to get your B12.
My wife's definition of "enough food for dinner" is what I call "hors d'oeuvres". Are we talking a minimalist 1200 calorie diet that only feeds fashion models, or enough for a football player?
Essential amino acids are *ONLY* produced by plants. Animals, including humans, use those to produce the non-essential amino acids. Vitamin D is produced from sun exposure. B12 comes from bacteria and the B12 in most animal products was given as a supplement. Of course given our highly sterile environment these days we need to supplement. Our body produces DHA/EPA from other plant based fats such as from flax seed...
We can get everything we need from plant sources, animal products are not required to be healthy and strong and in fact they make us sicker and weaker.
For those that want to see actual science with cited research papers instead of the ridiculous bro-science being posted here look up nutritionfacts.org on the web or youtube.
Explain why do they have a longer small intestine than chimps, if they eat similar diets.
I'll make this really simple.
I want:
Coffee-flavored coffee
Meat-based meat
Rum-flavored rum
This really shouldn't be that difficult.
Fixed that for you. Humans require meat. Nope. There's nothing in meat a human needs. Other than good PR. In fact, when it comes to your health, eating meat reduces your life expectancy if anything.
The Eco balance of meat is orders of magnitude worse than the worst mono-agriculture. If we can replace meat with plant, we sold. ASAP.
I'm not even taking about animal mistreatment and, even worse, the abolishment of anti-biotics by abuse by the meat industry.
Live stock meat is bad. Very bad in many ways. We should get rid of 99% of it.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Whether by causation, co-evolution, or correlation, every great tech leap forward came with a corresponding food revolution.
Mastery of fire, or at least some control over it, brought cooking, giving our protohuman ancestors the meal ticket to the tougher meats and plant fibers that previously were thrown away or pooped as indigestible (a literally fiber-rich diet). Agriculture brought on the eating of grass and, coupled with the by then already ancient technology of cooking, the fine art of baking or the making of what is basically edible clay: bread, cakes and their fluffy, crumbly, crunchy and spongy allies. In the modern era, who hasn't, at some point in their lives, consumed the junk and fast food churned out by the Industrial Revolution and the subsequent development of mass production?
Following this pattern, there's no doubt that any tech Singularity will be not just a much ballyhooed AI singularity but a dinner plate singularity as well. We or our immediate descendants will become regular consumers of food that, while they may already exist in some preliminary or experimental form, haven't even gone under the noses of most humans alive today. And the surprising thing is most likely dinner would be served just like the the steak and fried chickens we already eat, but produced through the wonders of truly Frankensteinian bioengineering.
No, I'm not talking about converting plant fibers into meat as the summary and the vegan pornoganda appear to imply, but the growing of the meat without the chemical and thermal energy hogs that come along with it. That is, animal tissues grown in an oversized Petri dish stuffed with all the necessary ingredients for them to grow to a form and size big enough and ready to be cut, if not butchered, seasoned, then roasted or fried and served on a dinner plate as nature identical steak. Or maybe nearly identical, with much of the bad cholesterol engineered out or replaced with the supposedly good cholesterol of aqua based animals.
If you have stocks in a cattle or chicken raising company, sell out now, while you still have a healthy profit margin. Natural meats are going to be replaced faster than e-cigarettes will displace tobacco.
Now if you're heavily invested in the food industry, your options boil down to a choice between the increasingly vegan whole foods companies being gobbled up by the likes of Amazon, or the traditional meat processing companies, which can easily shift from producing ham and hamburgers with inputs sourced from creatures that eat hormones and GMOs to meat derived from headless and gutless animal zombies fed a steady cocktail of who knows yet what set of micronutrients.
Yes, in the future non-paleo meat lovers will have to content themselves with eating lab grown meat. That or they will have to suffer the indignity of meat made out of plant cells. But there's no way traditional animal agriculture can flourish in the new anti-greenhouse gases regime. Now that there's an active movement trying to link meat production to climate change in particular and unsustainable development in general. Cattle farming will become the new coal industry, set to soon collapse both from pressure from the ecozealots and from competition by the Frankenfood industry. Let's just hope somebody opensources or leaks the essential gentech needed to grow headless pork bellies and chicken wings.
Well that's enough of my Slashrant for the hour. Be back after my Big Meal of the Day.
No. Crude oil is algae and plankton.
There's a youtube video out there of a grizzly killing a moose and eating its heart, in some guy's driveway. There's another image of a badly burned buffalo fleeing from a grizzly (buffalo fell into a geyser apparently - was put down by park rangers). Another of a grizzly attacking musk oxen calves. Pretty sure that species is heavily carnivorous.
Yes, to EAT. not to produce. Land wise, energy wise, waste wise, pollution wise, eating meat at this point is fucking ignorant. Not to mention your health. Try a real vegetarian diet, you will feel better immediately
I've read that ancient Greeks ate meat only during festivities. The reasoning from our perspective is that was not only good for them but also for the animals -- giving the animal population time to recover.
Another interesting heuristics is that Crusaders, for all their wearing and use of heavy armor, were told by the Church to eat meat of warm blooded animals (such as wild game) only two meals a week. Fish was permitted more often so reportedly they started the process of cultivating fish for eating in ponds.
There are many common plant based foods that are composed of soy, wheat, rice or one of a dozen or so other ingredients that my wife and other people I know can not eat. Switching off meat completely would kill these people.
You know that the Shao-Lin monks, who are the most powerful athletes in the world, eat strict Vegan diets, right? Source.
Yes, because one should obviously trust Lance Armstrong's foundation on "no extra drugs, really!"...
People will always eat meat. Broccoli will always be a side dish. Because meat taste like murder and murder tastes pretty goâ(TM)t damn good. -Dennis Leary
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OiSaENiho-Y
Because they're omnivorous? In case it's not obvious, this is rhetorical.
That's not an argument. Cutting out 99% of a lifestyle that is clearly worse for the environment is simply better than not doing it. Doesn't matter if you don't make 100%.
If you're a liberal you should be vegetarian. Full stop. Fact.
I need to link this to alex jones, they are trying to take away the last form of manhood here, wake up, dont be a soyboy!
Crickets are as good a protein source as beef and require practically no water to raise. They are sold in the form of flour that you can make into power bars and the like.
News flash. Animals don't make proteins. All protein comes from plants. Animals are just a very inefficient mechanism of converting plant protein to unhealthy animal protein. Better to eat lower on the food chain. Fewer toxins, no saturated fat, Better for the planet.
Yet somehow, some way, in a miracle of nature, humans have survived to this point while apparently eating the exact wrong things. Only now do we know enopuight that the metabolism that nature has provided us with is wrong, evil, and utterly unhealthy and perhaps nature wants humans to destroy the planet? The only reason that humans living and eating the very substances that they evolved to eat is is any sustainability problem, isbecause ther are too gawddamned many of us. In no time during the evolution of humans did the world end, eh? If we manage to destroy the planet, about the least likely mechanism is eating meat.
And eating too much meat can be a problem, just as eating too much carbs, and excessive phytoestrogens. It is not an indictment od either. In fact, the superseded food guidelines in the US were heavily influenced by vegans and the good old American values of industry influence.
In addition, there are interesting problems for men in the phytoestrogen loaded "correct" diet of today. http://www.lifeextension.com/M...
If you wish to eat like a prey animal and load up your body with estrogens, by all means do. I'll balance out my diet with meat, complex carbs but watch the phytoestrogen containers - if they brag about anti-oxidant properties, its probably got them in spades - and limit my simple carbs.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
*It is likely your last cucumber sandwich killed as many animals as your last hamburger.
You need to stop sacrificing cows to your harvest god.
Rather than "killed as many animals," I think you mean "used as much resources." Cucumbers are somewhat resource-intensive to grow compared to other vegetables.
*Humans were evolved to eat meat.
3%-8% of the average chimp diet comes from meat. Chimpanzees are mostly frugivores.
Do we say "Hummingbird's were evolved to to eat meat?" No, we mostly think of hummingbirds as nectivores, as their main diet is nectar. Only 90% of the hummingbird diet is nectar though and they hunt insects like chimpanzees hunt monkeys.
*To be fully vegetarian you would need a much longer digestive tract in which you could ferment plant matter like a gorilla or cow.
Humans began as frugivores, not grazers. If a hummingbird stopped eating insects would it need a long digestive tract to be vegetarian? No.
*There has never been a sustained human population that was fully vegetarian.
Four people in a house who are vegetation can be a sustained human population. Various human social groups throughout history have also adopted a vegetarian lifestyle.
*The way we treat food animals is cruel, horrific and unconscionable. This is one area where the militant vegans and I see eye to eye. It has to stop.
The way we treat food animals is cruel, horrific and unconscionable. This is one area where the militant vegans and I see eye to eye. It has to stop.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
I agree. When I cannot tell the difference between a top quality sirloin steak and a plant based substitute, then MAYBE we should think about replacing beef.
When we get ot the artificial meat, when it gets to the point you describe, I will probably stop eating traditional meat. My metric is bacon. Right now the process is 100 percent lean meat. But some day I think it will happen.
Until then, the veganuts can dream all they want, but it is NOT going to happen!
As I had touched on before, the issue of going vegan is largely a psychological one. And therein lies the problem. We are just coming off of a "Fat is bad, and load up on those carbs!" version of the food pyramid that was simply bad for people. My parent's generation is creeping up on the likely limits of human life. Right now, Life expectancy in the US is dropping though.
The fact is that there has not yet been a plant based meat substitute that is comparable in taste, texture, and nutritional value to what it is supposed to be replacing.
I have a confession to make. There are veggie burgers out there that I love. I discovered them one day when I accidentally grabbed on at a sporting event. So I eat them now. However, I put a couple thick-cut slabs of my home made bacon on top. Good eating!. But they are good, I just don't mistake them for real beef. And of course I still eat regular hamburgers.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Actually, meat production does more harm (greenhouse gases, deforestation) than transportation so it's a good candidate for planet destruction.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Interesting.
I always thought my sis was crazy to suddenly become vegan, after being an omnivore for about 30 years since birth. She and her husband did it without warning.
Too bad they have a kid who is also being made into a vegan.
Let's see if they get stupider over multiple generations.
Humans evolved from omnivores. Meat, eggs and milk provide a much more concentrated nutrition than a pure vegan diet can. My vegan friends eat 2 to 3 times the volume of food I eat. (And I don't eat a lot of meat; usually 60 to 90 grams per meal.)
Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
Sure, and buying walnuts from a farmer you know is bound to cost a lot less than getting them in a can at the supermarket. You've cut out all the distributing middle-men.
Now local co-op beef here in my urban northeast city generally runs about $12/lb vs. about $9/lb for supermarket beef. That's because we're not in "meat country".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So that there is enough doormats to serve each and every intersectional feminist.
Eating beef and pork makes these males too aggressive!
Minor correction. Almost no saturated fat. There are a few plants, like Coconuts, which I found interesting, and thought you may also.
The vegan is no less a killer than the meat eaters they consider below them
1. Ethics is anything but simple. So I will be only able to give an outline here since time for writing , reading a book on /. in our schedules is hard to come by.
2. Ethics of diet can be considered in 2 ways :
2a. Whether it was / is ethical to eat something in the wild settings. E.g. humans living in a forest, plucking an apple and eating it, or killing a deer and eating it.
Note that here, plant eaters are frequently not predators but reproductive assistants.
2b. Whether it is ethical to eat something in the industrial / agricultural era. Growing wheat / rearing chicken in your farm.
Here, frequently both plant eaters and animal eaters are predators at harvest time. But wheat would certainly go extinct without human support, and chicken would have a hard time. This may or may not play a role in deciding whether "killing" is bad in different scenarios.
But one has to concede that in spite of being weaker than many other competing species, chicken and wheat as species are doing well right now.
3. In both forest / agricultural settings, an animal eater is indirectly eating lots of plants the animal ate. Along with previous points, it is a complex calculation now to figure out how much of a "killer" one is when eating a particular food.
But in forest settings, animal eaters could convince themselves of having avenged the plants the animal ate. In agriculture settings, the animal eater is more of an eater of the animal's diet. Hence more of a killer.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Yes. We should stop eating all meat and eat only vegetables.
There is one and only one reason to do this. That reason is, to stop click-bait articles like this one. Please, please just shut up already with the meat hand-wringing! What is this, perhaps the 40th article this year on the topic?
What ? Those aren't the statistics I come up with on a quick google search. Mind a link ? I've seen 8-15% in the US, and far more globally. (because we use so much other energy in the US ...)
Eliminating meat from our diets would be the simplest step we could all take to immediately curb emissions. That seems clear. Not to mention it's simply healthier.
Do you even read the links you post ?
The genetic variations article is the only reasonable one - and yes, everyone should analyse and create their own diet for their own personal health. But saying the inuit aren't suited to be vegetarian, therefore most of us shouldn't be vegetarian, is like saying most of us should eat almost entirely seal meat.
From the Blogspot article - "suggesting that the vegetarian diet was not in fact causal." The last paragraph is some douchebag saying "he feels it could ..."
Courier - Yeah, B12. All vegans know this. Vegetarians get plenty with dairy, etc. B12 is incredibly easy to supplement. Notice the 3rd point about eating less, vegetarian populations are notoriously less bulky than meat eating populations.
Omega3/6 are found in a decent vegan diet. Brain development in children seems to be far more based on breast milk and then again, a GOOD vegan diet (anyone can eat like crap, and yes, if you're going to not care about what you eat, meat is an easy source of some things).
Same with that link to the malnourished vegan kid - one kid does not a study make. Many examples of malnourished children of all types. Maybe link to an actual study next time. The kid should've been heavier than 5kg on breastmilk alone.
So yes, good nutrition takes some education. But it really ends up being pretty damn easy. The FUD around veganism is atrocious.
The whole "i don't eat meat because it's cruel to " is not the right discussion, and agree with you there. I know there are many vegan/vegetarians that do have this reason.
However, the real reason everyone should consider it is environment and health.
It is clearly better environmentally from all perspectives to eat a vegetarian diet. Brown rice and lentils trumps meat in every single possible way. (I'm not saying to only eat brown rice and lentils, idiots looking for a way to attack this)
Done properly, a vegetarian diet is far healthier than a meat eating diet.
I have no idea how going vegetarian "severely fucked up your digestive system" - I am curious to know more and have read nothing about this in any way. Our digestive systems are very happy on a PROPER vegan or vegetarian diet. I can buy some arguments (such as B12, watching things like iron, etc) - but a vegetarian diet should be BETTER for your digestive system than a meat diet ( higher fiber, no carcinogenic meat, no bacteria from meat, etc). I'm guessing you were eating a high carb (pasta, etc) and high dairy (cheese) and calling that a vegetarian diet. That is just a crap diet, no matter how you look at it, but I'd love to hear you explain it.
So why are there living things that are neither? They are not soap. Just because they developed later does not mean they are better.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
What?
You're not allowed to do a VAST number of things, and you don't consider yourself already in a dictatorship?
You can't execute the neighbor's cat cause it howls or dog cause it barks.
You can't fuck the underage teenager next door.
You're not allowed to drive on the wrong side of the fucking road.
You're a prize self-important fuckwad - it's not a dictatorship when you're asked to behave in a social manner.
If consuming vast quantities of steak is considered, at some point in the near future, to be "anti-social", then what happens?
You're going to honestly tell me that fat-arse YOU is going to make a REVOLUTION because you can't have your MacDo burgers every fucking evening?
If you're opposed to the "dictatorship" of not being allowed to torture humans, then come over to my place, and I'll beat the living fuck out of you for shits and giggles - this is a capitalistic economy, right, I'm allowed to hire poor people to sell their bodies into slavery too. Amiright??
You don't think very hard, or for very long, or at all well.
Grass fed beef is worse for the environment because the animal lives longer and uses much more land and resources to get the same amount of meat to your plate.
Stop passing complete misinformation. All plants foods have complete protein.
I've been vegan 15 years. No great knowledge needed.
Your post is completely idiotic. B12 is the only thing I can think of needed, and it doesn't even originate in "meat" but in soil bacteria. The reason modern vegans don't get it is because people don't drink stream or lake water anymore and they wash their vegetables from dirt. In fact, cows are fed so sterile diets, farmers now have to give them b12 tablets!
On average humans who eat beef with a quality and varied diet grow strong.
The Chinese, who invented pork, survived for thousands of years without eating beef.
Stop virtue signalling by telling me and other what to eat.
Actually, meat production does more harm (greenhouse gases, deforestation) than transportation so it's a good candidate for planet destruction.
And if we all committed mass suicide, your world vision would be complete.
You hate humanity with a fervor that would make a Calvinist blush.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
they engineer the "meat" to be a complete protein: containing ALL of the essential amino acids, like beef is. The trouble is, very few plant-based sources of protein are considered "complete", as they lack sufficient quantities of one or more of the essential amino acids.
https://defenders.org/grizzly-...
They're omnivores, like other bears. Nobody posts Youtube videos of them eating berries, digging up ant mounds, or licking moths off the bottom of loose shale because it's just not that dramatic, but that's where they tend to get the bulk of their calories from. They will eat pretty much anything they can get their paws on though, especially in the months leading up to hibernation, where their life depends on them building up enough fat reserves to survive the winter. Calves and the injured especially are textbook examples of opportunistic predation - hunt what's easy to catch if the opportunity presents itself. But like humans in survival situation, hunting can easily become a net loss in calories, so that you'd be better off going hungry unless they prey is easy to catch.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Like with most health foods, "veggie burgers" are often extremely unhealthy for you.
Especially soy. Soy is very unhealthy.
It would be just as bad as beef I think, just in a different way.
any more than I can like green tea or broccoli.
I've you've only had broccoli heads or florets from these heads you're missing a real treat. Tender-stem broccoli, or best of all tender-stem broccoli tips are are several notches higher on the taste ladder than 'ordinary' broccoli.
First, prove your god even exists with credible evidence before claiming it somehow had a son.
Remember, your bible is the claim and not evidence for the claim.
Also, by posting as an Anonymous Coward, you are violating the words of your god's avatar/demigod.
The article itself cites figures for 15-18% of GHG emissions right now coming from the global production of cattle alone. But worse is the arable land use. I eat meat, but if plant based fake meat was as nutrient dense and tasty and cheap at real meat I'd take it 10/10 times over the real thing. If we weren't using so much arable land to grow and feed meat, that land could return to managed wilderness and contribute to the restabilization of our ecosystems, return of megafauna, and long term environmental stabilization and increases in biodiversity. The real impacts of this is not in the GHGs, where even new research shows feeding cattle some amount of certain algae during growth reduces most GHG emissions (something like over 90% reduction) from cattle, their primary release being methane. No, it is in the freeing up of land for the wilds and environmental stabilization.
This has to be one of the dumbest arguments I have ever read. Last i checked we did not feed our animals coal or oil, so they are a part of the carbon cycle and have fuck all to do with global warming. Also, you propose extinction of non-human animals? How the fuck it that going to be good for the environment.
To some extent the balooning of fruit and vegetable size has been impacted by higher atmospheric CO2 levels causing massive increases in sugar stores and creates a corresponding reduction in plant nutrient density that has been impacting all life on earth adversely as the change has happened so much faster than we can adjust for genetically.
Cats eat birds whole, therefore we should eat more parts of the animal too? I think your argument is a bit flawed there.
All life is precious you insensitive clod, and you do not live unless you kill something. Plant? You killed, animal? You killed it.
Jains only eat parts of plants that can be harvested without killing the plant.
What do they do about their immune systems? Immune systems are pretty deadly killing machines. Macrophages are pretty impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?... .
Humans die unless they kill. This is just how it is.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
While I have not done the science myself, my understanding is that in the history of mankind one could get enough B12 from the dirt in which their plants were covered. But given that we wash veggies today, its no longer a good source. I'm not advocating one way or the other, but the fact that you can't get enough B12 does not indicate it is not a "natural" diet for humans as there is a pretty good explanation for why we https://news.slashdot.org/story/17/12/24/2243246/should-plant-based-meat-replace-beef-completely#do not get it today, but could have gotten it way back when.
I find your comment cold, sarcastic, and frigidly chilling. How does one get a point across to someone as clothesminded as you?
By making a cogent argument. Animals do not exist except by killing. Our immune system kills millions of individual lives every day. I make no distinction, only understand. The most ethical vegan kills only a few less life forms than I do.
Cold? Nature is not warm and fuzzy. There are herbivores, and there are carnivores. Somewhere in the mix, Herbivore became equated with good, and carnivore became equated with evil. And the idea was hatched that if we were all herbivores, we would be good, because herbivore equals good - how rational and logical eh?
In the end, the problem isn't whether I have accepted that humans are omnivores, or that the most ethical vegans try in vain to never kill another animal. Then jump threough hoops to rationalize what life they do kill.
Its that the evil people like me are not trying to encourage vegans to adopt our ways. I seriously do not care if you decide to eat only things that start with the letter A, or become a breatharian. That is your right to eat as you please. Almost all of these discussions come about when the vegan community tries to claim their innate superiority. How terrible wasteful and intent on destroying the planet the evil meat eaters are.
Sarcastic? That's when I'm being kind and holding back. Chilling? Some times the truth is very chilling.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I've you've only had broccoli heads or florets from these heads you're missing a real treat. Tender-stem broccoli, or best of all tender-stem broccoli tips are are several notches higher on the taste ladder than 'ordinary' broccoli.
No, if you don't like the bitter plant taste in the first place, you are not going to like it if you serve a variety that has even more of the distasteful sulforaphane and raphanin left intact. It doesn't matter if you like it ten times as much as the most common variety. It's not suddenly going to taste like meat or grain or ginger. It's going to taste like a brassica plant, for the benefit of those who like those tastes in the first place. Not all do.
The only edible preparation of brassica plants for someone who dislikes the taste is to boil it until the distasteful elements break down - at least a couple of hours, and more if you don't discard the harder cooked parts like stems before cooking.
InterGuru isn't always full of shit, but when he is, he makes sure it's Grade A+++ Acme Brand Bullshit!
What I wonder about is if Vegan causes mental illness or if it is the other way round?
The Association between Eating Behavior and Various Health Parameters: A Matched Sample Study
http://www.plosone.org/article...
side-effects-of-vegetarianism
http://www.womenshealthmag.com...
What do they do about their immune systems? Immune systems are pretty deadly killing machines. Macrophages are pretty impressive
If I understand it correctly, they proscribe more killing, pain or upset to other beings than what is necessary for survival. So they accept that the immune system kills, but will only eat foods with antiseptic properties or "live" food like yoghurt if prescribed by a doctor, because either would be killing other living beings.
Forget about moral arguments. Make this *CHEAPER* than beef, but taste close to the same, it'll take over 90% of the market overnight.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
why is it the 1st thing that comes to mind is soylent green?
I really don't understand your reasoning. It seems you would rather indulge in meat than prevent the world from becoming uninhabitable for humans.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
What makes life worth living is having a choice. Some people have chosen to live on a vegetarian or plant-based diet. Many others have not. No plant can replace a filet mignon or a salmon. What concerns me the most is all of the toxins in our foods as they are genetically modified in addition to other toxins related to meatless wonders coming from a factory which uses untold numbers of toxins to create something totally unnatural. I oppose it and I think it will increase cancer risk more than any grass-fed burger or steak ever could...
You are a fucking piece of shit.
I'm not vegetarian because I love animals; I'm vegetarian because I hate plants.
Why do we need you to eat at all? You are wasting our oxygen and creating wasteful greenhouse gas everytime you mouth breath and fart your soylent green byproduct out.
:headspin:
How do you figure? Meat is the *least* efficient food.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/cont...
Feeding food to someone else then eating their bodies is dramatically less efficient than eating the food directly. And these figures don't even include the energy spent on producing animal feed.
Humans evolved and spread because they discovered cooking, which increased the calories available to them. Carnivores are necessarily always far fewer in number than herbivores. And don't let your penis-ego delude you into thinking that humans are biologically carnivores.
No, you are not going to trick me into eating McDonald's hamburgers!
What do they do about their immune systems? Immune systems are pretty deadly killing machines. Macrophages are pretty impressive
If I understand it correctly, they proscribe more killing, pain or upset to other beings than what is necessary for survival. So they accept that the immune system kills, but will only eat foods with antiseptic properties or "live" food like yoghurt if prescribed by a doctor, because either would be killing other living beings.
Either way, a very inconsistent outlook.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Wow, you are truly the dumbest piece of shit in this thread.
Ever here about that vitamin that you get from being in the sun? Vitamin D
Which just so happens to be a protein, produced by the human body.
Ever heard of Vitamin B-12? Ever wonder why vegans and vegetarians almost always take supplements for it? That's because it is only found in animals, because there are no plants known on the planet to produce it, but all animals do.
Ever wonder what the primary job of DNA is? You guessed it, DNA tells the cells how to create the fucking proteins your body requires, but cannot get from plant or animal sources, you ignorant fucking piece of shit.
I really don't understand your reasoning. It seems you would rather indulge in meat than prevent the world from becoming uninhabitable for humans.
Because consuming meat != destroying the world. That's just the vegan narrative. If meat eating was the sin you declare, the Inuits would have caused a total collapse of the arctic ecosystem long ago, as their diets consist alomost totally of meat.
But over population quite possibly will destroy us.
Allow me to make a minor correction. It can destroy the world for us. Nature does not care if humanity survives or not.
Is Indiia your model? India has more Vegetarians than the rest of the world combined.
So let's all be like India, as vegetarians they are going to save the world, amirite?
Sorry dear, but overpopulation is a hella bigger problem than those evil souls that allow corpse meat to pass their lips. Your narrative is showing. Now do you have a plan for killing the Inut? Damn meat eaters, That would serve them right, probably.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm all for a lower cost veggie substitute fake meats just so long as I can't tell the difference. Until then, I'm going to celebrate life at the top of the food chain.
You may be one of us who have a genetic trait which makes some beans toxic to you. Not green beans, but broad beans. I have this and can barely stand any type of bean. The only ones I can eat are ones used for seasoning, like vanilla beans, cocoa beans, coffee beans, and such.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
if you are a vegetarian, Why do you need something that is "like meat" to begin with? Do you miss Real Juicy Meat? Veggies are not good enough for Vegetarians? you chose to eat Veggies, So Eat Veggies and be happy.
Oh, it will do something, just nothing positive. It would create extreme, widespread malnutrition in every place it is used. But don't worry, that part is intended. You can't keep men weak and stupid by feeding them a decent diet, you need to take out many of the most important nutrients, aka take out the meat.
They already have. If you compare teenagers of today with those 100 years ago, with the exception of those who are starving, it is very clear that today's teens are far more malnourished than the ones from 100 years ago. The difference is when the government started pushing the "fat is evil" lie. The majority of people still believe it even though there are hundreds of studies that disprove it and practically none that agree with it.
Keep dreaming sunshine.
NT
Unless you want to pop pills for the rest of your life to get the vitamins that your brain needs to function properly. This vegan stuff as being the natural order of human beings needs to face reality. Though, when you see what B12 deprivation causes to a person's mental state, it explains a lot about the irrational fallacy that vegans are prone to and their obsession with delusions of grandeur. No there is no such thing as a "meat" substitute, it will always lead to a lack of B12 and the serious repercussions that alone will do to anyone's ability to think clearly.
Do Colorless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously?
Apparently, you did not recuperate your ability to use proper English grammar: "it's" should be replaced by "its".
Fucking newspeak editors...
You can feed 10x as many people a vegan diet as an animal diet.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
We have the technology to replace all alcoholic beverages with non-alcoholic and replace sugar with artificial sweeteners so while we are forcing meat eaters to eat artificial meat lets force people to drink alcohol free and sugar free beverages not giving them a choice. We make people eat healthier and prevent drunk driving deaths. What could possibly be wrong with this?
It's bad enough that vegans flood the newspaper Letters to the Editor sections with form letters asking meat eaters to become vegetarians. Isn't this like Mormons deciding that their alcohol free diet is not only good for them but also good for everyone else? Dentist would love to prevent the consumption of sugar just as much as they wish all municipal water supplies contained fluoride so replacing sugar with artificial sweeteners is a good idea right?
We also have the technology to replace sugar with artificial sweeteners. It seems vegans want to force everyone else to live their lifestyle. Why not allow people to choose between artificial beef and genuine beef like people have a choice between using artificial sweeteners and natural sweeteners? While we are trying to make people "do the right thing" maybe we should eliminate all alcohol instead of giving people the choice to drink alcohol or not. I'm sure religious groups such as the Mormons would love to tell you how great their life is for not drinking alcohol. The Mormons regulate alcohol more than they do nuclear waste in Utah. I'm sure they would be happy to make everyone abstain from drinking. Dentists would love to replace all sugar with artificial sweeteners as much as they love fluoride in every cities water supply.
I'm the opposite. As much as I enjoy a dry aged rib eye, I would settle for cheap and easy over taste, but nutritionally I do so much better when I eat a lot of meat. I'm not paleo or Atkins, I just feel better when I rule out grains beans(including soy), nuts and dairy. Which leaves whole vegetables and fruits, a pound of grassfed ground beef a day and some salmon or sardines.
That gets pricey and it is annoying to prepare. I tried the soylent kickstarter, but the massive dose of rice protein was not well absorbed and caused digestion problems that lasted for over a month so it wasn't just adaptation. Then they changed the fish oil to vegetable oil and dropped he protein to starch ratio and was garbage. My triglycerides went from 120 to 380 that year. I'm back on my meat and veggies again and feel great.
So if they made a cheap horrible tasting plant based protein source, but it worked? I would be all in.
refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
You've eaten meat yourself retarded. The inuit weren't factory farming meat to increase global carbon emissions. Your theory about 100% meat and the inuit has zero bearing on the discussion. Few are talking about hunting, we're talking about factory style meat raising.
If you eat meat, you don't give a shit about carbon emissions. Stop pretending you're a liberal.
B12 is not "produced" by animals. It is consumed from water dirt insects feces or SUPLLEMENTS (that we give them). We sterilize most of our natural sources of b12. How about you learn about this first,
Also b12 is incredibly easy to supplement so if that's all it takes to go vegan, easy sacrifice for our planet.
It's just, humans that have good life, that are masters of the land, eat meat, grow strong and smart. The English. The Turks.
While the humans that subside on plants are your Irish potatoe eaters or Chinese coolies: weaker, dumber, living as slaves. Plants are good to feed a lot of slaves, basically. Socialist paradise awaits when every slave will get some plastic oathmeal slime, equally distributed and spiked with necessary estrogens.
But so far there has NOT been a good substitute in terms of taste, texture, and nutritional value.
I'd pin my hopes on vat-grown beef before a plant-based option.
I have to disagree. Beef has very poor nutrition, and almost any substitite will work. My diet has almost always consisted of (at least) 95% meat , and have remained healthy, likely due to some hunter gatherer heritage, who could say. Beef, however, has not played a large part anymore.. . Sure I used to love a med rare steak but not much now. I did once find some place that made gluten steaks and strips which were just great, don't kbnow why they didn't catch on. The texture was just right, same as the taste, and I would assume also the nutrition. So I know it can be done.
Or a bulking agent.
Fake-meat does not taste quite as nice as real-meat. But what about, say, a mince that is 25% meat and 75% meat substitute?
Phah!I talians and Greeks, and I'd guess most other old world countries have been doing that for hundreds of years. Italians call them .. er.. meatballs! The British call them "sausages" :-)
I admit I initially assumed that would be a minor effect, but my initial investigation suggests that it's a relatively uninvestigated but potentially substantial change in carbohydrate production.
I suspect breeding for higher yields at the expense of all else is a larger part of the problem, but this sounds like something that warrants a lot more attention.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
OMG, that explain why all animals that are vegetarians are super dumb and the carnivors are smarter. No way, we should stop with this bs about vegetarians/vegans feeling not notmal and wanting make everybody like them. We must instead stop with all this fale meat and have the real deal. The juice and delicious tasting beef is the best always , also packed with proteins, and basically nearly everything you need. Its so good that those vegan/vegetarians want to copy it.
Nope, only some populations are genetically equipped for a vegetarian diet. For the rest, lack of meat causes brain shrinkage and mental disorders.
This. There is a long out of print book by Mark Vonnegut called "The Eden Express" Mark suffered from Schizophrenia in the early 1970's, and much of his problems were based on a vegetarian diet. After stabilizing him with Thorazine and shock treatments, he went on a normal diet, and with vitamin supplements, became a normal productive person.
I tried vegatarianism in the early 1980's, and while I didn't go any crazier than I am now, it severely fucked up my digestive system. Fortunately, going back to a normal diet reset my intestinal flora.
That's vegetarian -- vegan diet is far more harmful.
I have always thought that a vegan starts out with trying to define everything in life as good or bad (this is a bad thing to do, and leads to bad mental outcomes) So they embark on a journey to try to ensure that everything they do is good.
Killing animals is bad, especially the cute ones, so eating their "corpse meat" is likewise bad. So they stop. That Chicken didn't give you permission to eat it's eggs, or that cow it's milk or the honey we callously steal from the innocent bees. So that is verboten.
So they embark on this completely irrational and artificial and un-natural diet of only things they have determined are ethically "good".
My reply to them is that just who are they to set themselves up as arbiter of what is good and bad.
All life is precious, from the lowest bacteria to yeasts, to plants, to animals. And unless a human being somehow becomes a chemoautotroph, and can surgive by directly taking minerals and digesting them, the human does not live unless the human kills another life form. No way around it. The vegan is no less a killer than the meat eaters they consider below them.
I can certainly see why you're upset!
He cured himself of schizophrenia by eating meat and you already eat it! You've got nowhere to go!
Going carnivore obviously made you a retard and clogged up your brain.
If you grow up not eating meat, you get accustomed to that style of life. It than becomes abhorant to eat meat.
As was posted a few messages back. As a domesticated human, you might feel uncomfortable catching wild snakes, mice, skunks or other rodents and eating those. American ancestors ate squirrel. Do you feel comfortable with that?
Yes, getting off meat could be done; I would do it if all the nutrients were available, and the taste was great.
Just no. Tofu will destroy your thyroid and grow boobies on men. And never mind low-carb or paleo diets, meat just tastes better.
The English and the turks? That's your example of strong successful societies ?
I'll pass on both thanks.
Not correct. If, say, the food based lifetime cancer risk of diet A is 10%, but of diet B, including supplements, is 1%, with no other adverse effects, than diet B is safer.
Being natural isn't necessarily a good qualification as salmonella and tape worms are also natural, and cooking is not.
Feeding lots. Don't try and claim they aren't a thing, because they are.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I prefer the whole dricket, roastd with a bit salt.
They taste a little bit like small shrimps. But as you eat them with exo scelleton, they are crunchy.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Beef is a huge cause of environmental destruction. It has destroyed most of the rain forests world wide and has creates a ton of greenhouse CO2 emissions. For anyone who thinks that plant based "meats" are not delicious, I would highly suggest trying Beyond Meat patties. I just use some vegetable based bullion and cook it on the stove. They are extremely good! I believe you can get them at Whole Foods.
Also K2, which is produced by bacteria from K1. So I hope you like natto, because it's the only source of vegan K2.
That logic would work if, at some point in time, there'd been seven billion of them.
Think of two linked sliders. As the one for "percentage of meat in diet" moves up, the one for "total sustainable population" moves down.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
That logic would work if, at some point in time, there'd been seven billion of them.
?quote> But keeping my reply in context, I was accused of wanting to kill of humanity because meat.
The Inuit are living in pretty fair balance with their ecosystem, Their meat diet is not causing the ecosystem they live in into collapse. Their eating meat is not immoral or wrong, unless we decide that the very act of eating meat is always wrong, then we have real moral dilemma on our hands.
Think of two linked sliders. As the one for "percentage of meat in diet" moves up, the one for "total sustainable population" moves down.
While artificial meat might tweak that paradigm by a lot, I'll accept the argument at the moment.
Are we making the argument that we must use as economical a way to produce food as possible in order to pack as many people on earth as possible? That if we live right at the peak of sustainability, that we need to have the most people that the earth can sustain, and it is wise and just and good to at that point figure out how to make food even cheaper and more abundant so we can stuff some more people onto the planet?
I kind of doubt you are making that argument, but that's where the artificial sustainability argument ends up at.
If the kind of food that we have evolved to eat is considered unsustainable to our existence, the problem does not lie in the food source. A quick perusal leads pretty quickly to the conclusion that there are too damn many of us. A sustainable world simply has a lot less homo sapiens sapiens running around it, not changing from a predator to a prey diet so that we can jam more of us onto it..
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why can't it be used to supplement our current diet so that we still eat beef, but just have less of it? That alone would help. If you give people an ultimatum of course they'll reject and resent it.
Twinstiq, game news
Sorry but this is outdated information. The World Bank and IFC’s report Livestock and Climate Change checked their findings in 2009. They concluded the figure was nearer to a half of all emissions. Since that report, many UN agencies use the higher figure of 50%.
I think you may mean The Impossible Burger. I've had one. Right now? Sure, it's meat porn for vegetarians; I've been one for decades and surprise, I find it to be an amazing once in a while uncanny-valley spooky treat.
But in the future, with the price coming down with volume and proven demand driving efforts to make the product even more accurate? Maybe that would be different.
If it gets cheap enough, it'll be the drunk, hangry "fourthmeal" 1am crowd at Taco Bell that makes it a success, not asking a whole lot of questions (: