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China To Bar People With Bad 'Social Credit' From Planes, Trains (reuters.com)
China says it will begin applying its so-called social credit system to flights and trains and stop people who have committed misdeeds from taking such transport for up to a year. From a report: People who would be put on the restricted lists included those found to have committed acts like spreading false information about terrorism and causing trouble on flights, as well as those who used expired tickets or smoked on trains, according to two statements issued on the National Development and Reform Commission's website on Friday. Those found to have committed financial wrongdoings, such as employers who failed to pay social insurance or people who have failed to pay fines, would also face these restrictions, said the statements which were dated March 2. It added that the rules would come into effect on May 1.
in NYC they'd fine you $10k each time you did something like that.
Quick send APK, he will never be able to make it back here.
Video from 2015 on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI
Very chilling.
Dunno how I feel about the law over all, like a lot of things in China it seems pretty oppressive and overly broad. But it sounds good to punish employers that try to skirt stuff like social insurance. Employers should take care of their employees, might make labor conditions a little less crappy.
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Apparently the reason why China doesn't just shoot all the criminals is that bullets would cost too much. Maybe one day they can go to forbidding untrusted people from stepping foot in a convenience store, or banning The Good People from selling or giving food to said undesirables. A low caste if you will.
So no more Politicians on trains and planes? Cool.
Honestly, the examples they give don't sound all that bad at first, though they start getting more questionable as you get to things like paying fines. I'm not sure it should be an automatic blacklist, though there are surely egregious offenders who rack up tons of fines and never pay, so I can certainly see the point of barring asshats like that from utilizing services. But with the way they describe this social credit, I could really see it getting more and more questionable over time. Before you know it, you've arrived at something that looks like the Black Mirror episode "Nosedive".
And people wonder why the TSA wants to search passengers smart phones.
Why is anything from china news. Its a communist dictatorship morons. They can and do anything they want to do.
Sounds like the episode Nosedive to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive
So it begins.
Wow....Social Credit that you would have to keep track of in order to live. That's simply horrific.
Joke if you will, this is quite terrifying and will only continue. When the second largest economy in the world is already an authoritarian dictatorship, censored, monitored and without the right to assembly, freedoms will only decline. This same list will almost certainly be used as autonomous vehicles become mainstream.
The state will have complete control, and China will happily and aggressively export this social model to the rest of the developing world. Given the state of inequality, 1984 and "the man's" house are increasingly looking like our reality.
Better hurry up and get as close to the top as possible, because systems like this will only make social and political mobility that much more difficult.
actually they bill the family for the bullet.
The Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear
So no more Politicians on trains and planes? Cool.
... then they can justify the cost of charter flights, billed directly to the tax payers.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
They're not even slightly communist anymore. They're very capitalist but also very authoritarian. And they've only recently become a dictatorship (again), previously they were a pseudo-democratic oligarchy.
Fascism? Like the only thing remotely socialist about National Socialism was when they reappropriated private properties to inner party members.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Actually, I think this is a pretty decent idea. The trouble is with what they would apply it to. In China, I could see them applying it to people who complain about Emperor Xi. And that would be bad in my opinion.
If this were to go into effect in North America, I would think that stupid little twat who wouldn't take her feet off the seats of that train would have been afforded a more suitable punishment than beating her ass (although I think these whiny people who don't think they should show some personal responsibility could do with a bit of that now and then). You put your feet on the seats on a train and don't put them down when asked by law enforcement, then you don't get to ride on the trains anymore.
Other possible social crimes: Carry a tiki-torch in a march, banned from public transportation. Smash the windows of a Starbucks because you don't like, whatever the fuck antifa people don't like, banned (actually kicked in the crotch, then banned). Good starting point. Then punishment could be escalated from there to: no bad tattoos for you; no mullets allowed, no dreadlocks; etc.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
OK, so that thing about employers caught me. So let's say Foxconn gets caught breaking labor laws yet again. Who exactly can't fly? Just the CEO? The top manager of the particular sweat shop factory? All of the supervisors there? I guess my first shot at it would be "not the CEO of course". But who?
15 pieces minimum
What else can be said. Obedience or your life is hell. And we walked, ran, danced into the flames.
Great new everyone! Everybody now police everybody! You can now be the most "liked" person in town! (Well... or disliked but that will only happen to other "bad" people)
Looks like Xi Jinping is a fan of Black mirror...
Try it! Library of Babel
The exact same system applies in USA :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
aaaaaaa
http://www.independent.co.uk/n...
You can say that's different, but I'd argue it's just a little farther up the slippery slope.
Do you have ESP?
Things like this just give our own politicians (would-be dictators all) evil ideas.
What I can't believe is that some of you actually think it's a good idea.
in a secular society.
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It is very stable. It took about 1000 years of oppression, decay and degeneration of the ruling class for it to break down. How long it will last in the current age when the ruling elites and their henchmen could use face recognition tech and completely track every activity of every citizen?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
The move is in line with President’s Xi Jinping’s plan to construct a social credit system based on the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted”.
in otherwords he just invented the fabled "This goes on your permanent record, young man".
This can be used to coerce the Rich who aren't loyal enough. You are corecing them not through economic measures, or curtailing their off shored wealth but by physically limiting them in a way they cannot escape by their wealth. And if they want to leave the country then it can easily be applied to their extended family as well so there's no escape.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
My main concern is that the Chinese government might use this as low-level punishment (lower than imprisonment) for political crimes. For example, punishment for talking about the heroic "tank man" in Tiananmen Square on June 5, 1989.
Or rolling your eyes at easy questions asked by a reporter.
By the end of the day, Liang Xiangyi's name had been censored on China's largest search engines, the video deleted from Chinese websites and millions of Chinese netizens were suddenly worried about what would become of their newfound hero.
You mean "turned them into"
Table-ized A.I.
Looking at your post history you're quite the snide little shit.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
There have been small hippie communes that were communist but not authoritarian.
How many of these hippie communes survived for long once the population surpassed 150, the size of one monkeysphere?
Xi Jinping wants people to be obedient. But he cannot throw everyone that makes a careless remark in jail, and he does not want to because it will upset too many people.
So he introduces a system of social credit. It is not just about trains, a high credit is very good for getting jobs, promotions etc. A low credit can have you punished by trains, as a warning that you are on you way to worse things if you do not behave.
Once everyone is focused on their social credit, self censorship will be very strong. There is a small upside -- nobody will smoke on trains either.
OTOH The US Red Light Camera system is purely about making money. Quite different.
The TSA No Fly List is more similar. I would not go about criticizing the TSA too publicly. No other western country would tolerate such extra judicial punishments. But at the end of the day it is more about incompetence than malice.
You know, that concept that if you did your time, or improved, you are forgiven and get another chance ... because we are humans, and not monsters!
That last bastion before "everybody is guilty of something all the time, and hence a permanently indebted slave".
We already have enough laws that you and me and everyone is always harassable for something. We just aren't actually harassing everyone all the time. This would change that.
Oh and yeah, it is an old hat. The churches invented it, thousands of years ago, and called it "sinning".
They went the whole nine yards straight away too, by making the most basic human thing a crime/"sin": Sex.
I wonder when China (or us) will ban eating (anything but vanilla paste, in private, after getting a government license) ... or sleeping ... breathing ... Oh, the churched already did washing. What else? ...
Of course it is an excellent idea, just up her street, she is a good person who wants to keep everyone safe, from terrorism, from anti-social behaviour, and impure political leanings...
The problem here is that most Communist revolutions end in authoritarianism. You can say they're not necessary, but you still have to explain why *most* Communist revolutions end up that way. You might want to watch this for a review of how this keeps happening over and over.
Even supposed good examples of Communism like Venezuela turned authoritarian when the oil money dried up and corruption stole the rest. Then the government learned that you can print more paper money, but you can't eat it. Yes, some of them adopt market reforms to survive with varying degrees of success, it's interesting how this gets blamed for the decline rather than people realizing that it's the government trying to figure out how to put their finger in the dike after it's already crumbling.
It's weird how a political theory that people should be made more equal consistently ends up becoming authoritarian, but it makes sense when you look at your own analogy--flies (authoritarians) are attracted to corpses (communism) and you realize that people who have stuff don't like having it taken away by governmental force, so they pretty much have to set up a strong authoritarian government to pull off their revolution.
If you add Talking During A Movie, I'm totally onboard.
The vast majority are fine, but a small minority of ignorant Chinese tourists are really messing up the program for the rest. I hope China can address the rising issue of their tourist image. In Kyoto, several Chinese tourists have been responsible for damaging historic treasures, defecating on streets, urinating in public, etc. There has been public outcry to ban Chinese tourists which I think is a terrible idea for both the local economy and Chinese tourists who love to travel.
This type of behavior isn't limited to Chinese tourists of course (I'm an American, and I see a lot of asshole Americans running around too), but it's becoming quite an issue here. China needs to invest in some public education of how to behave and be respectful in other countries... My home country of America should also take note.
The war on terror has robbed citizens in many countries of their absolute right to protest, right to assembly (uncommon), right to speech (rare). I am sure the government of those countries are watching China's 'permission to be a citizen' experiment with interest. Time to remember the lessons of Gattica (1997).
Anyone watched the anime psycho pass?
Seriously, if I'm going to be disallowed access to things in society due to my personality, I'm going to have a pretty bad reaction.
In 1995, French philosopher Giles Deleuze, building on the work of Foucault, perfectly explained what is going on here in his 3-page text "Postscript on societies of control". We are moving from societies of discipline to societies of control, he explains.
Discipline
- A system punishes people once they break the rules (law), but not before.
- Transparent and accountable, at least in current western societies.
- Ultimately builds on the governments monopoly of power. You play by the rules because the government has tanks.
- Expensive.
Control
- Permanent measuring and nudging, whether you are guilty or innocent.
- Increasingly hidden in datacenters and proprietary algorithms.
- Weaponizes social control by making social interactions measurable (social media), and thus designable. You play by the rules because you want to stay included in society.
- Cheap, as you are basically crowdsourcing control to the people, who themselves apply the pressure to each other.
All societies have both systems. But the social control system used to be informal and difficult to 'design' (although the Stasi already had a working beta version). That has changed with the rise of the internet, which has allowed us to cheaply measure and record everything. Couple that with the rise of psychological knowledge (nudging, etc), and you have a pretty interesting substrate.
The Chinese seem to have read Foucault and Deleuze's work better than we in the west did. At least they know that they're building..
Here in the west this could be a useful narrative to steer clear of this possible future:
https://www.socialcooling.com/
Deleuze's text:
https://cidadeinseguranca.file...
For a fascinating treatise on how far this sort of thing can be taken, see the (now-ancient) Sci-fi novel "The Last Spaceship", by the pseudonymous Murray Leinster. It is available from Amazon as an eBook. One is exposed to many ways that authoritarian regimes can diminish the lives of their citizens.
The founders of Klout might be accepted with open arms there...