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Duolingo To Silicon Valley Workers: Move To Pittsburgh, Where You Can Actually Afford a Home (venturebeat.com)
As the cost of living continues to rise in Silicon Valley, tech companies in other parts of the country are getting more aggressive in pitching workers to move to their cities for a better quality of life. From a report: This week, the language-learning platform Duolingo put up an ad along San Francisco's US Highway 101, encouraging residents to move to Pittsburgh where the company's headquarters are based. In Pittsburgh, you can both "work in tech" and "own a home," the ad touted. Duolingo CEO Luis von Ahn told VentureBeat in an email that the company was prompted to put up the ad after realizing that most of its Pittsburgh employees who relocated to the city cited the low cost of housing as one of the deciding factors.
Von Ahn said that 85 percent of the company's Pittsburgh-based employees moved to the city from somewhere else. The company has 110 employees, the majority of whom work out of Pittsburgh. "One [employee] who recently joined Duolingo moved from the Bay Area and ended up buying a house almost immediately," von Ahn said. "He said he never would have been able to do that before, but here in Pittsburgh, he found a reasonably priced home on a large plot of land and jumped on the opportunity to be a homeowner and have a huge yard for his dog."
Von Ahn said that 85 percent of the company's Pittsburgh-based employees moved to the city from somewhere else. The company has 110 employees, the majority of whom work out of Pittsburgh. "One [employee] who recently joined Duolingo moved from the Bay Area and ended up buying a house almost immediately," von Ahn said. "He said he never would have been able to do that before, but here in Pittsburgh, he found a reasonably priced home on a large plot of land and jumped on the opportunity to be a homeowner and have a huge yard for his dog."
Covering relocation costs is something not-scumbag companies do when they want to move to somewhere more affordable.
In my old city there were tons of posts for jobs. It turns out it was the same 3 recruiters posting the same jobs over and over again. There were actually very, very few tech jobs. Meanwhile I left behind several friends who bought houses and got stuck in really shitty dead end jobs when they found out how bad the job market really is. Meanwhile I left behind several friends who bought houses and got stuck in really shitty dead end jobs when they found out how bad the job market really is. They're trapped. Upside down on a house as the job market got worse and/or not making enough money to save for the move.
I got lucky. I was born there but left for a job I happened to land by a combination of skill and dumb luck. Thing is, I've got a kid in college. As long as I'm willing to live like crap in a big city then the high pay lets me pay for her school. Had I not landed the job I have now I'd still be trapped and she'd be going to a shitty community college and on her way to a crap career.
So unless Pittsburgh has the jobs for real then techies had best steer clear. And it's damn hard to tell. Maybe fly out there and try meeting with people at the local computer club.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Well, you could choose Houston or Austin, if you don't like the cold! Houses in both cities are very affordable compared to Silicon Valley standards, and there are plenty of tech jobs.
There are plenty of smart people already here, Duolingo. We don't need more jagoffs from the Bay Area; the managers from Amazon HQ are already enough of a pain in the butt to work with.
your neighbors are less likely to be purple-haired weirdos who sexually identify as their own house.
There is an important point here. What good is a six figure income, if you have a six figure cost of living?
;)
Heck, I have been a self employed contract computer programmer for the last 30+ years, I only go to my office 2 miles from my house 2-3 times a month. I work remote on most everything from my home office with 1-2 local on sites a month with my local clients. I didn't even drive my car the last 2 weeks of Feb 2018.
The illusion that for IT you need to be in one of the high cost urban centers is untrue. Think for yourself, think outside the box.
Just my 2 cents
I feel like home ownership is a major life goal. It's certainly in the best interests of the people at the top as you are enslaved to a 15 or 30 year mortgage and can be counted on to pay into the many avenues of maintenance that comes with home ownership: not only house maintenance, but community maintenance in the form of taxes and bonds.
What does CA have that no other part of the USA has?
since you asked: https://answers.yahoo.com/ques...
Okay, you can snow ski and water ski in the same day, Earthquakes, Death Valley; with the lowest, hottest and driest place in North America. It's 282 feet below sea level, is only 2 degrees below the worlds record of the hottest day ever recorded at 134 F and the average rain fall is about one and a half inches. We have more people in prison than any other state at more than 170,000. We have more cars than any one else. California is the biggest melting pot in the world. Every fourth person was born in a different country. Mount Whitney, 14,505 feet tall and is the highest place in the 48 states. And only 85 miles from Death Valley. Silicon Valley, home to Google, Yahoo, E-Bay, Apple.......too many to list computer company's. Oh the most cell phones, the most area codes. The Biggest and oldest living things on the planet. The Giant Sequoia Red Wood trees. This could go on forever. I hope I helped out.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
There is that Pacific Ocean thingy. AC
It's almost like low taxes doesn't solve every problem.
Re "'It's almost like low taxes doesn't solve every problem."
Thats the problem for your company.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I am still flabbergasted by the number of companies who post positions for developers with "NO REMOTE WORK". In this day and age, a company whose main front-facing presence is a web or mobile app has absolutely -no- excuse to demand in-office presence, given the huge economic gradient presented by some urban centers. If they really want the best talent, drop the requirement for relocation, damn it!
For example there was an article recently in the news about how Vancouver tech companies couldn't find enough workers to fill their positions; they admitted workers were hesitant to move into the area due to housing costs. Well duh, then don't require your workforce to live in one of the most expensive areas in Canada!
Management that demands in-office developers is either out of touch with modern collaboration/tracking tools, or just plain does not trust their workers. I wouldn't want to work for a company with either of those flaws.
People with a six-figure salary complaining about silicon valley living costs would have an easier time of it if they didn't have children.
This kind of phenomenon is only the beginning. The cost of having children is going up, and it will continue to do so until the population reaches an equilibrium. It has to happen sometime.
That's not really a bad thing, though.
"What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
California has a large technology industry despite 30 years of dysfunctional government policy which has led to, among other things, a severe housing shortage and some of the most unaffordable housing in the entire United States. Most of the tech jobs in California are located along the southern coastal areas and around San Francisco and Silicon Valley where you basically cannot touch a house for less than 600K and realistically, to have a chance at closing, you're looking at more like 700K to 1 Million. In San Francisco and the surrounding areas prices of 3 Million and up are not unheard of and these are not necessarily quality housing units. Some of them are actually run down dumps, especially in the Silicon Valley area, but the supply is so constrained that they can basically do nothing, let the house go, and still enjoy price appreciation. These high prices are mostly the result of California not building enough housing from 1978, when Proposition 13 went into effect, and continuing to the present day because of stupid environmental rules, highly restrictive zoning and wealthy liberal NIMBYs of the "screw you, I've got mine" variety who take advantage of them to sabotage new development so that their homes are worth even more.
So pay attention and take heed. If your company is recruiting or your city or state wants to attract more tech workers then do more to showcase the high quality of life at affordable prices in your area. If you can convince more young people to do startups in your area then it should be possible to poach talent from California and other high cost areas that are badly governed. New York is trying to do this with an advertising campaign right now, but honestly they suffer from many of the high cost and high tax problems that we see out here in California. There are plenty of bright young tech workers in California earning $150K/year and living in run down rentals who will never be able to afford to buy a house in California. If you want to attract them to your state instead and turbo charge your economy then work the housing pain point, it's California's weak spot. California has grown lazy and complacent, taking the tech industry for granted. It shouldn't take much for other cities and states, hungrier for jobs and growth, to advertise a better way.
So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
So they can ski and then get stuck in traffic?
A company can be near the big social media spyware brands? A direct low latency connection to adware and spyware?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Don't go to Houston or Austin. Houston is the armpit of America. You have to air condition 10 months out of the year and you can't enjoy being outside because it's over 100 degrees F with 90% humidity most of the time. There's ungodly traffic and bugs and it's the ugliest city I've ever seen. The only reason to move to Houston is if you have a plan to go there for a year, make a lot of money and then leave. It's awful. The people there are great and the food is great, but it's one big expressway and everything is 30 min to an hour away. I lived in the best part of town and it still was complete shit. There were concerts in the Miller Outdoor Theater all the time, but you couldn't go because you felt like you were suffocating. And, they have hurricanes, which I learned about first hand back at the end of August. Also, there are mosquitoes the size of pigeons.that will attack you if you so much as open your car window (not that you would open your car window because it's stifling outside.
Austin is much nicer, but it's also very hot and very crowded and the traffic is awful and it's played out. If you want to go to Austin, take a trip there in December or something, but unless you've got something going at SXSW. Avoid at all costs. Also, it's in the State of Texas, which might sound good because there's no state income tax, but food is a lot more expensive and you'll spend a ton on utilities to air condition your place and you will be unhappy because it's a very ugly place. Like Houston, most people are nice, but few assholes there are run the state.
Pittsburgh is better. Yes, there's an awful winter, but the people are authentic, you can afford to live there, it has a great music scene and actual history and neighborhoods and human beings outside. And it's a short drive to something beautiful. Unlike Houston. You know how in most cities you can drive for an hour and you'll be out in the country and it will be nice? You can drive for an entire day from Houston and not see anything nice. I'm serious. Nothing but oil refineries in two directions, swamp in another direction and scrub in the other direction.
Don't undervalue the importance of living somewhere beautiful.
You are welcome on my lawn.
And get flooded every few years due to 100 year floods.
--sf
Judging from the comments so far, I don't think Duolingo is going to have many takers. However, I lived in Pittsburgh for almost 20 years before I moved back to Ca, so I would like to give it my endorsement. We bought a 5 bedroom house in a good school district for $255k. There's a lot to do in the city. It has museums, professional sports teams, good restaurants, etc... Life is less stressful; people are friendly. It's a family-oriented city, and Pittsburgh is often voted "most livable" city in the U.S. by various magazines. Now, the weather is not great, but it also doesn't get a lot of snow in the winter. Certainly it is nothing like what people imagine if they are still thinking steel mills - those all closed 30-40 years ago. The air is clean and the countryside is beautiful. Now, the big players are health care, research, and universities.
CA has some of the highest state taxes ever.
Until this year those could be written off your fed bill.
Thats why. And why dems are so pissed.
CA is going to see their true costs reflected in many places.
And oh they're pissed the rest of us are not subsidizing them anymore.
They are one of the "preinstall AppX Packages" that Windows 10 comes with. Pandora, Bing News, Eclipse, I hate them all.
The flooding, even if catastrophic, is the least of your problems in Houston
Pittsburg has a lot of snow. Also one in three people will try to rape you daily.
If your employer is profiting billions per year and you can't afford a home, then you are underpaid.
So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
Why would you write that? It seems like a really silly thing to think.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
You do realize that California subsidizes much of the rest of the U.S. right? You seem to have that backwards.
I lived in Houston for about half of my life and being from there I learned to deal with all the problems. Moving back to Houston would be terrible. After living in Phoenix I found the humidity unbearable whenever I go back. I didn't mind the heat in Phoenix all that much though.
I've lived in Pittsburgh 4 years. The winters weren't all that bad. I did think it was funny that my hair would sometimes freeze in the morning though. Imagine that - leave the house with wet hair in freezing weather and it freezes. Ah, the things I learned in college.
Now I live in a mid-sized town in Colorado and absolutely love it. I'm not going to complain about the winter here too much but when it gets down to zero or below I try not to leave the house.
The mosquitoes in Houston aren't actually the size of pigeons. They just swarm together so much it seems that way.
The comment did mention "Okay, you can snow ski and water ski in the same day" and "too many to list computer company's"...
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Yeah, especially when considering the inflation adjusting income falling since the 1960s and the economy not recovering from the dot-com crash when prices are inflation adjusted, it is better to be at a place with a lower cost of living, in an attempt to achieve a better quality of life (closer to what was achieved in the past, more easily).
non compete clauses are not enforceable in CA, a big reason for why Silicon Valley exists.
Re "They're out here because people they live next door to are more like them."
Thats great for the lifestyle of the wealthy workers.
Why are the shareholders and owners of a company subsidizing workers in a state with that tax rate?
Move to a better state with lower taxes. Enjoy the profits and savings.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
3 major things keep companies in California, all related to talent
1) Weather. Let's face it, California weather is hard to beat. Most places you have to worry about running the AC and dehumidifier, or worry about running the heater and paying for heating oil, along with clothing and maintenance costs to deal with the weather. California gets to skip all of that, or have it as an optional thing you just pay for if you want it (mountain cabin, home out in the Inland Empire).
2) Non competes and at will. Non competes are void here, so companies have no real way to chain people to their work if they are good. Employees can walk. It is also at will, which means employers are also not chained to their employees if they suck. Employers can walk. This promotes the greatest mobility of workers and business, and tends to arrive at situations where both sides get what they want.
3) Infrastructure. Specifically the master plan of education of California which leads to the Cal State and UC systems which pump out grads to satisfy the tech industry, as well as the other major industries. This plus the private universities means theirs plenty of good people to pick from.
All the above lead to a demand that makes California expense. On top of this, the housing market is distorted because California citizens voted themselves incredibly low property taxes, which promotes never selling properties. This means for many companies, they get property taxes that can not be found anywhere else, despite the high property values.
Most of the companies I consult for offer multi-thousand-dollar referral fees if I get someone to work there. They're more interested in quality people than the tax rate.
Bruce Perens.
For 2017
91% of all criminal suspects in pitsburgh were black.
But on the upside 74% of the victims were black too.
That's because black males are the single most violent demographic in the entire world. Anywhere you go, this is the case. Including black-run cities and nations. These are the folks who invented necklacing. Necklacing is a form of simultaneous torture and execution. A tire is forced around the body of the victim, filled with gasoline and ignited. It's a popular method of mob execution in Africa. It's often used against those accused of witchcraft.
In the USA alone they are 6.5% of the population yet account for more than 50% of all solved murder cases. They also account for the majority of other violent crimes like robberies. This is according to the FBI crime stats. The Native Americans, the Jews, and many Asian groups have also been the victims of systematic racism. You don't see this kind of violence and savagery from them. So no, "blame whitey" does not account for this. You wouldn't accept such a flimsy theory with so little evidence and so many counter-examples in any other subject. What makes this one so special?
Just look at Haiti. While the French colonists ran the place it had nice things like productive plantations, public sanitation, law and order, a productive GDP. Then the blacks intercepted a shipment of muskets and gunpowder and had their own imitation of the US Revolution (except where the US drove the British out by military defeats against military targets, the Haitian blacks slaughtered every single white man, woman, and child). Now it's a disease-ridden, unsanitary, poor, unproductive shithole nation. People literally shit in the streets. The water is contaminated with human feces. You have to spend about 6 months being vaccinated against several different diseases if you are to visit. And you can forget about any kind of lawfulness or safety. Convenient how Conan O'Brien visited the one touristy area that's nothing like the other 99% of the nation, and still he had to take all sorts of vaccines and spend nearly $200 a night at a very fancy hotel to do it. The average Hatian has an ANNUAL income of about $350, to put that in perspective.
It's not unlike what happened in Detroit after it became well over 80% black. The Detroit blacks have just more recently inherited the benefits of white-built infrastructure. The black population elected black officials. It is a black-run city at all levels. Did they start up their own equivalent of General Motors and rebuild? No. Not even close. They went bankrupt. What's their priorities? Well, their city officials are passing laws telling Asian business owners that using bulletproof glass to shield themselves from black thugs (after several of them have gotten shot during robberies) is "racist" and "sends the wrong message". What wrong message is that? The truth? That people don't want to be shot? That blacks are doing the shooting? The inability to accept reality is staggering.
Re "systems which pump out grads to satisfy the tech industry, as well as the other major industries."
.com consumer brands?
Will that once great engineering ability last another generation with the amount of politically correct scholarships given for non academic reasons?
The major industries are now social media thats spying on users? That growth is related to users allowing the spying.
A company that designs in CA and has its production lines in China?
That 1950-1990's security clearance advanced engineering skill set is starting to be replaced by
Consumer brands that can find their skill sets globally.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Oh, hey, another pack of lies from a hatemonger!
In fact, California is 42nd per capita in amount of money received from the feds per dollar spent in taxes:
http://www.politifact.com/cali...
Californians in fact receives roughly 22% LESS per capita than the national average.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Son, it's the Lone Star State , where everything is bigger, and badder
> What does CA have that no other part of the USA has? What keeps the SJW brands management paying so much just to stay in CA?
> No need for your brand to help pay CA tax rates to cover massive illegal immigrant support costs.
Oh I dunno. More liberals, less conservatives. That appeals to a lot of us. Oh, and it's not so damn cold, too.
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Here here!
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So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
You have two choices. On the one hand, you can do what it takes to buy services (hire peope) at the going rate, which incudes lifestyle. On the other hand, you can try not doing so and see if you are able to buy enough.
So basically, yes. What part of capitalism don't you undestand?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Thats great for the lifestyle of the wealthy workers.
a.k.a. the workers who bring the most value to the company.
Why are the shareholders and owners of a company subsidizing workers in a state with that tax rate?
Because they understand that without good empoyees, their shares won't do very well.
Move to a better state with lower taxes. Enjoy the profits and savings.
You'll have huge profits with almost no payroll, for maybe 6 months.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
What does CA have that no other part of the USA has? What keeps the SJW brands management paying so much just to stay in CA? ...
Is the very fact that parts of CA are so expensive the reason why the SJW brands like CA? ...
Why don't shareholders do the math to show their brand could make more money and pass back larger profits in many other better US states?
First, the weather. And CA does have a good University system.
Second, the decision-makers for these companies have no problem paying 2-3x for living expenses. The board members are local. The VCs are local. Who cares if you overpay for a house when your bank account is well into 8 figures?
Sure employees can't afford to own a house, but who cares when you can just import people who will be happy to live in an overpriced 1-bedroom apartment?
Third, paying extra for salaries tends to be a secondary concern. It’s not something that makes the difference between success and failure for most companies. And when they want to try to push margins up, they do it by employing people in Asia, not by hiring in Wisconsin or Ohio.
A better question is "Why don't they push California government to stop wasting half the money the CA government takes in?" I'm guessing they think they'd start seeing government inspectors and auditors show up to fuck with them — so they just stay quiet instead.
Also, "Why not open an office in southern CA? Irvine or Thousand Oaks or San Diego?" The weather is even a little nicer and it's only a 1 hour flight. Housing is cheaper, but still expensive compared to the rest of the US. University system is the same. I don’t know what stops them from doing this. Maybe they just don’t care about their employees.
I lived in Houston for about half of my life and being from there I learned to deal with all the problems. Moving back to Houston would be terrible. After living in Phoenix I found the humidity unbearable whenever I go back. I didn't mind the heat in Phoenix all that much though.
I used to live in an area where it rained once in a while, typically an afternoon sprinkle. Now I live in an area where it tends to rain for days straight and you hardly get 3-5 days without this happening. Living in an arid place sounds really good to me.
Of course one can have too much of a good thing. Doesn't Phoenix have problems with water shortages?
California has beautiful land and and and incredibly open amd vibrant culture. People come to California to write their own stories, usually because they got tired of the closed mindedness of whatever flyover/small town that they grew up in freaks, geeks, lgbtq and every color of person is welcome and feels like their welcome in the Bay area. People don't want to deal with the small mindedness the middle of the US is displaying. I literally heard people in a restaurant in Palo Alto laughing at the idea of moving somewhere else(Austin, Detroit, etc.). Other cities have tried to replicate "Silicon Valley" but they always miss the most crucial part, the openness of the culture.
Fuck that. The quality of life in the Bay Area is much higher than Pittsburgh, Houston, Austin or anywhere in the US. The only way to get better quality of life is to move out of the country, which is what I did 20 years ago when I moved to the Netherlands and then Norway.
I am especially baffled when new companies start up in Silicon Valley or New York or LA or any insanely high priced area. Or how tech companies love to use H-1B visas to import works when they could setup up locations in lower cost of living areas with a glut of labor. And then off-shoring, why not off-shore inside the USA, then at least you're separated by at most 3 time zones instead of 12.
Yes, all the states fight over water rights down here, but unless you keep a lawn or a golf course, it probably won't matter to you because it's not like we're going to ration tap water or something. I would recommend a low-flow shower head and efficient toilets, though.
The dry air can be hard on your skin and lungs, though, so a humidifier is nice to have.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you are a piece of shit.
Seriously, kill yourself.
Only because much of the US subsidizes CA via tax deductions...
...you can do what it takes to buy services (hire peope) at the going rate, which incudes lifestyle. On the other hand, you can try not doing so and see if you are able to buy enough.
So basically, yes. What part of capitalism don't you undestand?
Apparently, you don't understand capitalism either.
The article is about affording a home, which workers cannot do in parts of California. Is homeless part of the "lifestyle" that workers want at the "going rate"?
You are another condescending shit-bird who thinks he knows everything. Fucking tosser.
Bruce, I admire you and a lot of things you do, but defending silicon valley culture? I am disappoint.
I lived in Sunnyvale for 5 years working for Google. Is very nice. All your neighbors are 6 digit income engineers.
Everyone is polite and happy and there are no social problems or crime.
Except for the undocumented near Home Depot.
Imagine a place where everyone makes >>100k$, is well educated and there is little to no crime.
It is a magic place. You can even show your solidarity with the 4$/hour Uber driver, driving you to FogoDeChao by telling him "I am liberal too. Power to the people."
In short, you are full of shit and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I later turned my back on this. I now live at a coral reef. My neighbours are normal people. I can have meaningful conversations and interactions with them.
They are from all walks of life and they enrich me. Not like south bay where the entire world is software engineers and, does anything else even exist?
YMMV. You like the bay area? more power to you. Don't be so condescending to people that think it is fake, or shit.
No counterarguments, just name calling.
People like you made Trump president.
Fuck that. The quality of life in the Bay Area is much higher than Pittsburgh, Houston, Austin or anywhere in the US. The only way to get better quality of life is to move out of the country, which is what I did 20 years ago when I moved to the Netherlands and then Norway.
If you moved out of the country 20 years ago, you have no fucking idea what the quality of life is in the Bay Area.
Shit changes.
Just keep that furnace well fed!
If you move to Pittsburgh with anything close to a decent Bay Area income, you're going to be able to own a home a hell of a lot faster than the average person taking 15 - 30 years..
When I lived in MtnView for 5 years, I will give you it almost never rained.
Though, during winter the water puddles at the side of the street would freeze overnight. It does get pretty fscking cold compared to the tropics.
I live in a nice place now. "Oh, and it's not so damn cold, too." is not really the phrase you are looking for for. Winter in the bay area is pretty shit and cold.
Sorry, I need to go down to the beach now . If you feed the dolphins daily they let you swim and surf with them. It is pretty awesome.
You should try it.
OP,
Seriously, befriending dolphins so so they allow you to grab their fin, or even ride ontop of them is pretty freaking awesome. It is super fun to riding a dolplhin and just playing with it. Especially when they play and jump out of the water and do a somersault with you ontop of them.
My local friendly dolphins and I do that a few times a week. It is awesome. You should try it
Well, you could choose Houston or Austin, if you don't like the cold! Houses in both cities are very affordable compared to Silicon Valley standards, and there are plenty of tech jobs.
HOLD that thought there cowboy.
I came to Humble (suburb of Houston) in 2014 because of jobs jobs jobs and my previous employer offered me a position with a tick up in responsibility if I moved from Florida (Tampa area). Tampa back then had a HUGE unemployment rate over 10% and was still suffering in the Great Recession.
Housing prices back in 2014 were cheap. I suffering from the Great Recession lost my savings so I was planning to rebuild and buy a home in Houston by now.
Texas had the lowest unemployment rate, cheap housing, mild sub tropical climate, lots and lots of jobs, never entered the recession. .... Fast forward to 2018
Oil and gas prices have tumbled!! I have been laid off 3 times now. All my coworkers who used to make money hands over fist are making $25/hr with no benefits as contractors. I was laid off again as cheap Indians are going to fly in and take our department jobs away thanks to the Gartners Group efficiency experts. Housing prices have gone up 30%!
The job market in Texas is terrible now thanks to the energy industry race to the bottom as the price of oil is still down 70% from 2014. If you are in tech you are not employed in Exxon, Shell, etc. Unless of course you are an H1B1 visa holder.
Meanwhile my phone is ringing off the hook from Florida recreuiters. Tampa is NOW HOT and they are struggling to find competent I.T. workers. Pent up demand from the last recession hit my former place.
My point is in 2018 things have flipped. Once was hot is cold and vice versa.
http://saveie6.com/
I rather think worrying about feeding a furnace in Pittsburgh is a bit overblown.
A few stats:
Average temperature: 52F
Annual high temperature: 61.4F
Average annual precipitation - rainfall: 34.8 inch
Annual low temperature: 42.6F
And snow ??
Snowfall is 27 inches. The average US city gets 26 inches of snow per year.
On average, there are 160 sunny days per year in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The July high is around 84 degrees. The January low is 22. Sperling's comfort index for Pittsburgh is a 52 out of 100, where a higher score indicates a more comfortable year-around climate. The US average for the comfort index is 54.
So, pretty much an average climate, with a much lower cost-of-living than the Bay Area.
Oh, hey, another pack of lies from a hatemonger!
In fact, California is 42nd per capita in amount of money received from the feds per dollar spent in taxes:
http://www.politifact.com/cali...
Californians in fact receives roughly 22% LESS per capita than the national average.
One thing California is really good at is racking up debt, which is rather unbelievable considering the fucking taxes and cost of living you have to endure to live there.
Chew on that bullshit for a while as you justify California's existence.
regressive leftists, communists, islamofascists, nazi type socialists, or other failed globalist ideologues.
It's "Hear, hear!", you nitwit.
An engineer must register and be granted a license to work. Then when you actually do work, you are criminally liable for any defects that cause harm.
Does your little coding McJob have any such caveats? No? Then you are not an engineer.
I found the yinzer
You mention supposed "open mindedness." Would some one who isn't black or gay welcome? Or does open mindedness have limits?
Engineers are required to be licensed and are criminally liable for defective work that harms. Are you under such requirements?
If no, you are NOT an engineer.
Everything you just stated, except for the HVAC system issues, can be said about Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, etc... So, really, your pitch for CA comes down to, "You don't have to know how to use a thermostat".
Well then you have nothing to worry about!
Surely californias tax economy won't be shown to be a giant house of cards. Surely.
Things will turn out great when california has to fund all it's own insane policys and not rely on the federal state tax writeoff.
Yep. Place your bets!
Pretty sure they didn't vote for trump.
Don't deflect blame from the regards who did.
I lived in the bay area for 2 years. I'm from GA. They complained if the temp got above 85 that it was too hot and complained that it was too cold if it got below 65. They also ram for cover if a single lightning bolt hit the ground. Talked about it for weeks. They are not use to ANY sort of fluctuation in temperature.
I never understood why anyone would pay bay area prices to live there, where a 250k salary barely gets you an apartment.
Sounds like you did not have a pool in Houston. Or a decent backyard. I'm on less than 1/3 of an acre and I can't see my neighbors, OR my fence, due to all the shrubbery. It's a botanical pool garden back there. If you aren't taking advantage what your local climate has to offer, you're doing it wrong. Houston has a lot to offer as long as you actually adapt to living there. This is from a guy who left Houston once because I hated it, and came back after living in several other places
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
When confronted with an unpleasant fact the wild liberal will react with personal insults and attacks.
This does not change the unpleasant fact. It's just a display to signal virtue. A mating dance of the fugly bluehaird wild liberal if you will.
Nashville. No TN Income tax, weather between Austin and Pittsburgh. Lots of Healthcare companies and tech has been booming lately.
>projecting this hard
An ad hominem is not an argument or even a coherent rebuttal to an argument.
I found the yinzer
Actually, no. I'm originally from the Eastern part of the state. But having traveled and lived all over, I can state that Pennsylvania winters were pleasant compared to Limestone, Maine, and Minot, North Dakota. . . . Drive around Pennsylvania with a electric plug for a block heater sticking out in front of your grill, and people will inevitably ask "what's that for ?"
I can just imagine the reaction of a Sillycone Valley resident to -80 wind chills and/or 8 foot snowstorms. . .
>claims to be open minded
>shits on everyone who grows his food
You fucking liberals. You claim to love everyone, but in reality, it's just everyone who agrees with you. That's not tolerance.
Please dont. We dont want anymore Californians coming here and driving up our home prices.
At some point in the near future, this problem will work itself out. Housing prices within reasonable commuting distance to the major tech hubs in CA are already at ludicrous levels.
Companies are having to pay astronomical salaries to their employees just so their workforce can afford to live nearby. Even then, home ownership is laughable.
They will, eventually, wise up and move their operations to a lower cost of living area and save gobs of cash from salaries alone. It would be stupid not too and I'm surprised shareholders haven't demanded it in their quest for ever increasing profits.
While you West Coast folks probably make 2x what I do, I OWN my home ( read that: Paid for ), both vehicles are paid for and that residual now feeds retirement accounts.
I can do far more with half the salary, so tell me again why I would want to live somewhere like SF ?
I was living in an average home on a postage-stamp sized lot. I work from home, so I moved onto a one-acre private treed lot.. In a place where I can get this 10 minutes away from a major city. You would not believe what it has done for my stress level, being able to walk out and see nature every day instead of my neighbors.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Reference or citation (do not link to that car ad) for any of this? You make many claims, you should be able to support them.
I'm sorry to hear your experience with Houston was so terrible! Yes, it has its problems, but I would hardly call it "armpit of America."
I'm pretty sure Houston's traffic isn't any worse than freeway traffic in Silicon Valley, I've driven in both places. I agree with you that it's hot and humid, and that is one of Houston's issues. For some people, that's a bigger problem than for others. Personally, I don't want to live anywhere that's cold.
By the way, there are nice parts of town and bad parts of town, just like anywhere. And there are indoor concerts, you don't have to go to Miller. In fact, Houston is #2 to NYC in number of arts venues (and number of seats), most of which are indoors.
I have a co-worker who moved from San Jose last year, and he has no desire to go back! He and his wife love the friendliness of the people.
Like with any place, there are pros and cons, you have to decide which are important to you.
The troubles you have experienced are certainly true of the oil industry. I've lived in Houston for 28 years and never worked in oil, and I've never experienced the ups and downs of the job market like you describe. When I interview programmers, I have to make offers fast, because they are getting 2-3 job offers! We've lost several good candidates recently because we didn't move quickly enough!
The thing about the oil business is that it's cyclical. When it's hot, it's hot, and when it's cold, it's terrible. But if you stay outside that industry, life is much more stable.
Yes, it has its problems, but I would hardly call it "armpit of America."
Yes, a better term would be groin. With crotch itch.
That's why I ended up in CA. Our tech booms don't fade away in a few years. Tech booms naturally when jobs boom. Only CA and DC seem to have tech job markets that are always healthy, regardless of the wider job market.
A few years ago, I went to Houston for an August wedding. My rental car was brand new, with less than 200 miles on the odometer. The air conditioning system in it couldn't even keep up. It was awful.
But, my friends lived in a neighborhood on the west side with tons of 100-year old oak trees. It was beautiful. The acorns were the size of walnuts, though - you wouldn't want one to fall on your head!
You're glossing over the Pittsburgh Left Turn and the Pittsburgh Crapper.
Pittsburgh Left: First person in line at the stop light makes a left turn when the light turns green, cutting off opposing traffic instead of yielding as required by law, as Pittsburgh lacks left turn arrows at most stop lights.
Pittsburgh Crapper: A toilet and sink in an unfinished basement with no surrounding walls, installed because an unfinished rough-in was not allowed per plumbing code back when many houses were built. Super classy and extra fun at parties.
Pittsburg has a lot of snow. Also one in three people will try to rape you daily.
Pittsburgh has now totally outgrown its industrial past. Unfortunately, the city has one one zone, office buildings. There is no place where you can pick up a gallon of milk.
This author really think San Franciscans are going to move to Pittsburgh for a cheap home, when they can move to literally any city in the nation other than NYC for a "cheap" home? I think San Franciscans are far more likely to end up in San Diego or some other CA city than Pittsburgh.
San Francisco is historically beautiful, buy what’s “quality of life” about needles crunching underfoot, and bums reaching out to grab you as you walk down the street?
Around here, when needles crunch underfoot you’re under a pine tree.
...Chicago, or Austin, or Denver, or Salt Lake City / Provo.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you are a piece of shit.
Seriously, kill yourself.
No, if either of you goes to Pennsylvania, someone will do it for you.
I can honestly say that Pittsburgh is awesome. I didn't move here because of a job, I moved here because I visited for a furry convention and absolutely was enamored with the city.
I found a job nearly immediately with PNC in their headquarters as a TPM and pulling down more than I ever did. Seriously, if you move here, check them out. We're always hiring and there's an awesome atmosphere in the workplace.
Come to Pittsburgh! We welcome you. Just don't vote like a braindead Democrat.
It’s like New York except take 2 zeroes off the prices.
I fondly remember California open mindedness. It existed when I was growing up there. Yes, kids, it really did exist!
Heating oil? You an ivan bot?
You didn't even listen to what he said. You just saw the word "tax" and started spewing dogma, like an auto-comment script. He said that state taxes used to be able to be taken off your federal taxes, due to some stupid law. This incentivized high state taxes and no consequences. Now, with the stupid law eliminated, high tax jurisdictions are going to feel the pain of their own taxes instead of passing them off to others.
Besides, it is a standard feature of leftism that those who have the most should share their wealth with the less fortunate. Regardless of "deserving" status. California should be proud to contribute so much.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
You're showing your ignorance. The only one we don't have in the rest of the country is weather. That's it. We have good education systems and the ability to move employers all over the country. You don't have a monopoly on this is California.
Housing is expensive in California because of California has some of the most restrictive building laws in the country. That's not me saying it, it's the New York Times and it's based on a study that was done by a couple of economists at the University of Pennsylvania. The research paper argues that land-use and environmental regulation suppress the overall housing supply resulting in homes in the San Francisco are which should cost $300K costing $800K making California 49th out of 50 states in per capita home supply and at the very bottom of states as far as places to live, despite all the hype about how great a place it is to live.
The study was done before the California fiscal crisis became well known, I expect a downward spiral now that the state is going to have to continue to cut services to service their unsustainable pension debts.
So what you're saying is you're bigoted and you enjoy not having your views challenged? Oh, and you're too fragile to be able to deal with snow.
I've lived in Austin for 15 years. 1. Traffic. When I moved there in 2002, 183 wasn't even extended north past Duval and traffic sucked. In 2017, the 183A is built but the traffic jam begins even further south now, at Mopac and 183. Rush hour begins around 6:45am in the morning and around 3pm in the evening. 2. In Austin you have to move closer to work. If you live in Cedar Park/Leander and work in downtown, that's 1 hour commute each way on lightrail or drive. You might as well move. And there's no "commute against traffic". 3. Anyone wanting to move to Austin needs to spend a week looking and live traffic on google maps, then decide. 4. Food is awesome. We moved to Midwest...food here is bland compared to Austin. I've become a lot more proficient at smoking/grilling now that I can't get decent BBQ here. 5. People are weird. 6. Weather sucks. Yes, it's not as humid as Houston, but it's still 80F+ 9 months out of a year, with suffocating humidity even at 10pm at night. Not windy at all, so walking your dog at night is still like taking a shower. A very stinky shower. 7. Did I mention traffic? 8. And even then, Houston weather is worse than Austin's. I used to drive to Houston few times a year for track days/race events. Sleeping at the race track in a tent was unbearable in Houston. You have mosquitoes, swarms of them, and 90% humidity even at night. It's really really unpleasant.
I live in Dallas, Texas.
The economy 10 miles north of me is booming.
It's creating a housing crunch region-wide.
A FEW WINNERS: Homeowners who can move away or "trade down," retirees and a small number of other homeowners with "frozen" tax appraisals, developers, landlords, and those with stable housing and the right skills looking for a bigger paycheck.
LOTS OF LOSERS: Renters, the homeless, and homeowners who can't move away or "trade down" who get hit with higher tax appraisals.
Texas has practically no rent control. Dallas and surrounding cities have long waiting lists for subsidized housing. Other than for the elderly, the disabled, and a few smaller groups, there is very luttle protection againt sudden increases in tax appraisals.
On the plus side, since appraisals aren't inflation-protected, long-time residents pay their fair share alongside new arrivals.
Was there 2 years ago,and it was pretty goddamn nice.... if you have money. If you make under 150k, not so much.
Agreed, please don't move to Austin. We have enough traffic here.
There is a quite well known book on the subject of region differences: "American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America" by Colin Woodard.
For young people wishing to change locations I suggest a visit to local watering spots and rating the availability and attractiveness of potential sexual partners. (A far more entertaining pastime than looking at real estate). My experience suggests there are significant region differences in these qualities however, I've never been to Pittsburgh so I don't have an opinion.
Don't undervalue the importance of living somewhere beautiful.
Move to Australia where nothing attacks you. Or Canada were even the criminals are polite.
Cold as hell for half the year.
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
Yeah, except it's not happening at all.
Denver has turned into another fucking disgusting, soul-less southern California suburb with mcmansions squished together with 2 meters of watered grass between them. You came for the "low cost of living" and then voted for every fucking imaginable tax increase and made it unaffordable.
Yes, your open-minded hatred of flyover states and small towns. We welcome all cultures, just not those.
The OP doesn't specify, but I'm pretty sure that it's Pittsburgh, CA (not PA) that the company is referring to. It's located up the back bay about halfway between SF and Stockton, is well out of Silicon Valley, but close enough to commute in if necessary. It's relatively affordable like other cities closer to the CA central valley which is why a lot of folks have opted to move there rather than pay the overblown prices commanded in the Bay Area proper.
If you were thinking this was referring to Pittsburg, PA then adjust your thinking accordingly...
It wouldn't need to rack up debt if a lot of its citizens' money wasn't stolen by taxation from DC. And more will be stolen with the end of deductions.
Time for #calexit2020. Let's do it!
I really wanted to love it. Teaching at Rice was fantastic and as I said, the people are great. Also, the food trucks are very good. Not being able to just sit outside for most of the year was a stopper for me. The lack of beauty was a problem. I hated having to get on an expressway to go 3 miles. The air is very polluted. Finally, Hurricane Harvey put an exclamation point on it for me. Houston and I finally had to agree to part ways. Now I live in a temperate place where the only downside I've seen so far is that housing is expensive. There's a great school here too and it's not in a state run by Republicans.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Yes, Pittsburg sounds like a much better option for you.
The air in Houston, by the way, is no more polluted than LA or the Bay Area.
You may not like Republican politics (I don't either, since Trump). But it's significant that in general, people in the US are moving FROM blue states TO red states.
I'm glad you found a place more suitable to your liking.
Yep, you definitely don't move to Texas for cool weather!
Traffic though...Texas has nothing on LA or the Bay Area.
It's tolerance of intolerance. Progressives always had a way with mental gymnastics.
Reference or citation (do not link to that car ad) for any of this? You make many claims, you should be able to support them.
FBI crime stats were mentioned. Those are readily available online. Try inputting "average annual income Haiti" into Google. Try inputting "Detroit bulletproof glass" into Google. Try inputting "Haiti French musket revolution" into Google. Try inputting "disease vaccination Haiti visit" into Google. Did you really need someone to spell this out for you? Believe it or not, you can do your own legwork and not every Slashdot post is a referenced research paper designed to spoonfeed you.
Sure, go work for a "language learning" company in Pittsburgh... till the company gets acquired by another tech company and promptly terms everyone at the current location relocating the IP (intellectual property) back to Silicon Valley. Now your stuck in a location with a mortgage and next to zero tech job prospects.... then the blizzard starts...
A common theme predominates: Anywhere but Silicon Valley would be better, and there are quite a few cherries to choose. KC, Nashville, Tampa, Pittsburgh...
I lived in Phoenix, commuted to San Jose some. I now live in Nashville. Great weather, great people and vibe. NO State Income Tax! Cost of living is climbing, but should remain below California benchmark for the next century...
Come on down, but I warn you...you may have to meet and know your neighbors, and talk without going through your phone.
technical whipping boy, Occam's Strop (think about it...)
The quality of life completely sucks in Pittsburgh, absolutely. But the quality of life sucks orders of magnitude more in California. You couldnâ(TM)t pay me $1M/year to live in that shit hole.
" Imagine that - leave the house with wet hair in freezing weather and it freezes. Ah, the things I learned in college."
Apparently, they don't teach you about hats. j/k
I grew up in MI, and typically walked 1/4 mile to the bus stop in the winter. If I didn't blow dry my hair after getting out of the shower, it would be frozen solid by the time I got to the bus stop.
Just another day in Paradise
What a load of cherry-picked statistics. All of which ignore the systematic biases that have been in place for centuries against people who have more melanin in their skin. See? No ad hominem attacks. A simple dismissal of. Specious argument as just that. If those arguments carried any water, why arenâ(TM)t they making in-roads in a more public forum? Answer: because they are terrible, racist arguments that reach false conclusions based on overly sparse, unrepresentative data points.
Why not open an office in Southern CA?
Companies like Intel did build chip fabrication plants in small towns. But nobody really wanted to move there because there was just one employer and it would be impossible to change jobs if things went off the rails.
Employers looked at LA or San Diego. The second problem is that companies were scared their employees would leave for other industries like film production. Some allowed employees to attend conferences and trade shows, so long as it wasn't Siggraph. At the height of the dot com boom, some divisions had half their employees disappear within a month.
So, they have to stay in Silicon Valley because engineers and architects want to keep the security of being able to change jobs overnight and not having their career killed by non-compete-agreements or someone else deciding their career path. Those employees also want to send their children to good schools. At the same time, the companies want to keep their workers away from other industries.
That's the only way for any industry to survive in a region. To have a sufficiently large "critical mass" so that companies find it easy to recruit staff, and employees find it easy to change jobs and stay in the area.
As a current Austin resident, I have to agree. Don't move here. Especially if you're coming from Silicon Valley.
I don't see how that's at all related to the question of what's unique to California.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
So a company has to stay in a state to support the travel lifestyle of its workers after work?
Yes.
I briefly lived in a dying industrial town in upstate New York. The job was incredibly interesting. The pay was very good. There were lots of opportunities for career advancement. And I moved away.
When you leave work, you don't want to enter an environment where the local Exxon station sells crack pipes. And decides to lose their Exxon branding instead of no longer selling crack pipes. Where everyone you pass has a giant cloud of doom over them due to the terrible local economy. Where there is one non-fast-food-quality option for dining out. And so on.
The reason for the high pay and advancement opportunities was the company had a very hard time recruiting people to live in that crappy place. So much so that recruitment and retention were an enormous drag on their overall business. So yes, businesses do need to consider the lifestyle of their workers outside work. Because it will be a large factor in whether or not they are able to find workers.
I've lived in Silicon Valley and my family lives in Pittsburgh. So I have a good basis to compare. As with everything, there are tradeoffs.
Plus side: affordable housing, somewhat better traffic (though still congested at rush hour and bottlenecks at bridges).
Down side: you have to live in Pittsburgh. Weather is crappy (hard winters, humid summers). Food not nearly as good quality or variety (though getting better). Corrupt state government. Decaying infrastructure (potholes everywhere, bridges way past their shelf life). Not nearly as many getaway options nearby (what, are you going to West Virginia for the weekend?). And the people are, shall we say, less than enlightened on social issues (be prepared for LOTS of trump supporters. pot legalization is a fantasy). Airport is "international" only in the sense they occasionally fly to Toronto. Be prepared to pay a lot more and make a connecting flight to go overseas. Or even west of Chicago.
In short: you get what you pay for. Pittsburgh is cheaper for a reason. If you just want a big house and don't care about other stuff, go for it. Me, I'll take Bay Area every time. No contest.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
Everything you just stated, except for the HVAC system issues, can be said about Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, etc
Nope.
Silicon Valley formed because of the combination of Stanford, Berkeley and several other UCs, and companies in the 1960s paying for R&D campuses, and more-or-less free in-state tuition ($400/year in the 1970s IIRC). The universities supplied a large number of well-qualified employees, big employers hired them, and some of them formed startups that became other big employers. Once the ball got rolling, it became self-sustaining.
So no, those other states do not have the same environment. One major, high-quality university supplemented by a couple smaller schools is not the same as three major high-quality universities supplemented by many smaller schools.
You'll note that there is not an equivalent of Silicon Valley near Los Angeles. Same state and even better weather. But it does not have the same university + R&D concentration that formed up North.
1) very cold there (I spent many years back east so I know it well)
2) highly red state (against my world viewpoints; people around me would not be as open and accepting to very liberal views. again, a VERY red state, pennsy is, especially as you move away from the philly area.
3) what good is owning a home if there is just one tech company nearby? sounds worse than bay area and much riskier, too.
in short, no. thanks but no thanks. I'll continue to rent (maybe never own a home) but at least I have many companies nearby to choose from, great weather and great local food.
plus, very liberal area. just can't see myself EVER living in a red state. I'd hate it.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
The Color of Crime, 2016 Revised Edition
Quote: "In 2013, a black was six times more likely than a non-black to commit murder, and 12 times more likely to murder someone of another race than to be murdered by someone of another race."
Another quote: "If New York City were all white, the murder rate would drop by 91 percent, the robbery rate by 81 percent, and the shootings rate by 97 percent."
Do black Americans commit more crime?
Quote: "Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimization rate was six times higher."
However, that web site is a TV station in Belfast Ireland.
There Are No Successful Black Nations.
The author of that article, Chigozie Obioma, is a black Nigerian.
Detroit bullet proof glass
Average annual income Haiti
Health Information for Travelers to Haiti
Rochester resident here, and... Yup. Spot on. I'll add another point that people who never lived in a dying area miss. Lack of job liquidity. That is, since there's so few jobs, everyone holds onto their's for longer than they should. This results in stale workers and difficulty in changing jobs since they open so infrequently.
It took me a year to find the job I currently have and it's nothing to write home about. Luckily I was still employed while looking (that company was on the downward spiral of death). I'm tired if it and will be moving out soon. At this point I'll take insane COL if it means I can CHOOSE a job instead of SETTLING for a job.
But just how different is that really in Austin? The distances are shorter than LA/SV. If If you happen to live in RR and have to work south of the river...you might as well bycicle on 360. You'll get in shape, move faster than traffic and don't have to go workout. Otherwise the drive is ridiculous and it's only getting worse. Those pretty pictures of the 360 bridge lie :) they always airbrush the thousand cars out of it. When we left Austin, they were already building new subdivisions north of 2243 and 29...we're talking about people commuting from Georgetown into Austin. That's probably 1.5 hours if you don't leave home at 6am.
I live in Berkeley. It's a little different. We are real liberals and the lady down the street goes to your coral reef and treats the children's medical problems. I go places for UNESCO, etc. A lot of us make a good living, but that's to support what we do rather than the end goal.
Bruce Perens.
Sounds like you did not have a pool in Houston.
And how much cost comes with that? Yes, it is nice to have a pool, but at the same time you must spend some more money to maintain it. At least you could use it almost year round, but it is not free unless you have a friend or two who have a pool for you to dip in anytime you want.
Referring to the elimination of a loop hole as stealing doesn't help your argument a whole lot.
Reminds of the days of rolling blackouts, when Californians were crying about how their electric bill was going to double when they finally built enough generating capacity. Yeah, "doubled" all the way up to half what my part of the country was paying at the time.
Whiners...
Old, often repeated, nonsense.
They excluded all benefits paid to individuals. CA has something like 30% of the nations government tit suckers.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
In point of fact: SI valley formed because CA told bell labs to stuff their non-competes up their asses.
If was started by a group of defectors. If the new england states hadn't been kissing up to the big corporations of the day, it could have been there.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Is this some new faction of furries?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I get to camp in redwood forests down here in Silicon Valley. San Fransisco isn't in the valley, at all.
California racked up debt because of a majority Republican government that cut taxes and intentionally ran the state into the ground to break social welfare programs, same as the federal government and the state governments of Louisiana, Oklahoma, Wisconsin. The debt is caused by refusing to pay the bills. Now Brown and a majority Democratic government raised taxes, pay all the bills, have a six billion dollar surplus and the state is booming again.
Don't elect Republicans.
If you don't want to pay your bills, go to Louisiana or Oklahama. They're doing *great*.
When California goes full solar and has enough juice to desalinate the ocean of water it sits next to, the place will have the mother of all economic booms. That's assuming the graphene oxide passive water desalinization tech doesn't pan out - if it does, all California has to do is stick a hose in the ocean and inhale.
Pumping rivers of desalted water inland won't be a bad idea either. Flood the desert valleys. We have to put the rising waters somewhere, anyway.
I once lived in PGH for a job, the problem is the city is a run down mess. There are a few nice neighborhoods but they are surrounded by blight. The surrounded areas are very run down as well.
Yes you can buy a house, but who wants to live there?
Food is expensive in Texas? News to me! (Dallas)
Bet they are happy they can’t see you.
Yeah, for what you get, it is.
Believe it or not, groceries are much cheaper in California all across the board, including meat, dairy, and as you would expect, produce. And there's a lot of produce that just isn't available in Dallas or Houston.
Also, wine is a lot cheaper in California. You can get a fantastic bottle of wine for under $10, and if you watch the sales, under $5. And I'm talking about real wine with a cork and everything.
Also, property taxes are higher in Texas.
You are welcome on my lawn.
due to all the shrubbery. It's a botanical pool garden back there.
I FOUND THE KNIGHTS WHO SAY "NI!"
One day it's 220F the next day it's -50F. On the average, not so bad, eh? Maybe a little warm..
I'll have to assume you do statistics for a living... You're doing the devil's work!
I was born in Pittsburgh, grew up in Bellevue, went to Pitt, and eventually moved to SF...
3 years ago, I moved from Pittsburgh to SF - after working in industry in Pittsburgh for a decade. The Bay Area is an employees market - there are jobs everywhere, and companies can't seem to hire fast enough. When you find your work to be stale, and you are no longer learning new things - there are new opportunities to move to in SF. I found some employers in Pittsburgh to be all too aware of the power dynamic that results from having fewer job open job listings...
Pittsburgh is great, but very different. If you would like to commit to an organization through retirement, it seems like a good fit. If you find yourself restless - you may feel trapped in Pittsburgh. The cost of living is much lower, but car ownership is almost mandated. The city has become more bicycle friendly, but most yinzers on their way to UPMC are still angry about the idea of sharing the road...
SF is becoming more techie / monoculture by the day, but seems to at least feign more social awareness. Pittsburgh is a heavily segregated city, that does a good job of ignoring its issues every time a "most livable city" list comes out.
Pittsburgh has a leg up (perhaps surprisingly) for home-grown arts and culture. The high cost of living in the bay has pushed most artists out of the city.
Please don't move to Robinson and say that you are from Pittsburgh.
I'll stop offering unsolicited input now...
Yes, because it's not possible for me to ever travel back to the Bay Area to visit friends and family.
You can't be that fucking stupid, can you?
After what we learned after the last hurricane about building codes in TX -- or the LACK of building codes in TX - I would not purchase a house there. Ever. For any price
While Pittsburgh might have cheap property it's definitely not some place I'd want to live. If you are liberty minded the place to move for tech is New Hampshire. There is a lot more interesting shit happening in New Hampshire thanks to the libertarian migration and you can get cheap property here, not pay an income tax, sales tax, and still potentially make six figures. We've got a lot of liberty-minded people moving from the hellish socialist silicon valley area amongst pretty much every part of the US and even as far away as Russia.
Yes and right leaning folks should be ashamed at further suckling from the CA tit which is the result of that law as the per capita amount per dollar spent on taxes will go down even further.
What a load of cherry-picked statistics. All of which ignore the systematic biases that have been in place for centuries against people who have more melanin in their skin. See? No ad hominem attacks. A simple dismissal of. Specious argument as just that. If those arguments carried any water, why arenâ(TM)t they making in-roads in a more public forum? Answer: because they are terrible, racist arguments that reach false conclusions based on overly sparse, unrepresentative data points.
Actually it's the virtue signalling people like you who are so very quick to condemn, yet you yourself wouldn't move your own family to downtown Detroit for anything (and you know you wouldn't). That's why it's not more publically discussed. It's not PC. What's PC is to feel sorry for the blacks and support the blacks-as-victim narrative, meanwhile at a rate over 80% they refuse to father their own children. The few blacks who study and try hard in school are beaten up not by racist whites, but by other blacks, for being "uncle Toms" and "acting white". Like said earlier, the Jews, the Native Americans, and Asians (they were exploited like hell to build railroads) have also faced systematic racism in America but you don't see them topping the crime charts. Grow up and learn that facts are factual whether or not it's fashionable to speak about them openly.
Stolen by DC? Due to the state tax refunds CA is effectively getting those taxes from the national government. I bet CA's numbers wouldn't look as good if you took that into account. None of the surveys look at that since technically the money is routed to the state through its citizens rather than directly from the government.
Also keep in mind CA keeps voting for all the programs which require the government to keep raising money. If you actually are paying more than the other states, you're only getting what you wanted.
Pretty sure he understood it better than you. California does not pass any costs onto others and is in no way subsidized. They contribute more than they receive. This was true before the tax law and now it is even more lopsided. If it wasn't for all the poor states leeching off of them then California would have no trouble paying for their services. Californians earn enough for a high standard of living so why are they being penalized for it?
It never quite reaches 220F. It only feels that way. The -50F however is theoretically possible. (I'm in Cleveland, just over 2 hours away, but much closer to Lake Erie, and thus much snowier and more humid on average. The Cleveland economy really sucks compared to Pittsburgh, but there are tech jobs nonetheless, and a surprising amount of culture, and one of the nation's lowest costs of living.)
Nonaggression works!
Please don't export your smugly arrogant, sophomoric, sociopathic, brogrammer culture to the rest of the country/world.
It is not welcome outside of Silicon Valley.
Pittsburgh is better. Yes, there's an awful winter, but the people are authentic, you can afford to live there, it has a great music scene and actual history and neighborhoods and human beings outside. And it's a short drive to something beautiful.
I wonder if there would be a culture shock not acceptable to a Silicon Valley type. That authenticity of the Yinzers in the Burgh might be a little off putting for a California type.
And of course, if they all moved there, they'd just re-create what they did to Silicon Valley, similar to what they did back in the 1970's when a lot moved to Seattle.
But for certain, as cities go, the Burgh cast off it's dingy past, re-invented itself, and now with the gold bridges, looks like the land of Oz, especially when you enter from the Fort Pitt Tunnel. You go in through a hole in a forested mountain, and come out in a different and darn pretty for a city world. Great sports, and I like the people.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Pittsburg has a lot of snow. Also one in three people will try to rape you daily.
Pittsburgh has now totally outgrown its industrial past. Unfortunately, the city has one one zone, office buildings. There is no place where you can pick up a gallon of milk.
I think that the AC you replied to was a Yinzer trying to protect their city from SIlicon Valley types.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Fuck that. The quality of life in the Bay Area is much higher than Pittsburgh, Houston, Austin or anywhere in the US. The only way to get better quality of life is to move out of the country, which is what I did 20 years ago when I moved to the Netherlands and then Norway.
And we're glad you did.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
San Francisco is historically beautiful, buy what’s “quality of life” about needles crunching underfoot, and bums reaching out to grab you as you walk down the street?
Around here, when needles crunch underfoot you’re under a pine tree.
Be careful of the ticks under the pine trees though. Use your DEET.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Sperling's comfort index for Pittsburgh is a 52 out of 100, where a higher score indicates a more comfortable year-around climate. The US average for the comfort index is 54.
So, pretty much an average climate, with a much lower cost-of-living than the Bay Area.
Altogether too many people are incapable of handling anything below 50 degrees these days. I actually like the cooler weather with actual seasons.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Nah. People are people. The "Silicon Valley type" is a stereotype which Silicon Valley types try to emulate because they think that's what's expected of them. Put 'em in Pittsburgh, and in no time they'll be puking and getting in fights in the parking lot at Three Rivers before a Steelers game. They'll be putting up Porky Chedwick Tribute websites and wearing Willie Stargell jersey's to work.
The people in Pittsburgh are great. The music scene is historic and has is very active. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but when I move somewhere, I try to immerse myself in the local culture. Being from Chicago, I didn't have any trouble at all adapting to Pittsburgh when I spent time there (Go Tartans!).
You are welcome on my lawn.
Pretty sure he understood it better than you. California does not pass any costs onto others and is in no way subsidized. They contribute more than they receive. This was true before the tax law and now it is even more lopsided. If it wasn't for all the poor states leeching off of them then California would have no trouble paying for their services. Californians earn enough for a high standard of living so why are they being penalized for it?
Totally a myth - and one that has been debunked numerous times. You have everything backwards.
California receives huge subsidies. Just water alone is received at far below the cost to supply it - see Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner for more details.
California also passes costs onto others, such as the costs of complying with California's laws, which are often stupid and pointless - that raises the costs of many products for everybody, including the 88% of the US population not living in California.
California DOES spend more in federal taxes than it receives if you don't count a lot of the hidden subsidies - but even that's really an investment, and it's an investment with a very high rate of return.
A key issue here is that California is #1 in population, but #45 in percentage of retirees. This is part of the reason Californians are spending more money in federal taxes in other states: they need to support their own retirees (social security, medi-care) who have moved elsewhere. It's both direct and indirect support too. From California's perspective, this is a great investment: those people leaving free up housing that other people with higher incomes will occupy (just the sale of a house by a retiree leaving the state provides lots of tax and income opportunity). The new occupants (and everybody involved in the sale) will spend more money in the local economy, and can be taxed at a higher rate (especially since they know they don't have to save as much as they would otherwise: they know that they too, in turn, can retire elsewhere). The money gained outweighs the money spent.
Along the same lines, California has moved a lot of it's military obligations into other states. It has 12% of the population, but only 9% of the military. California still pays a share of the salaries of these people, leading to increased federal spending in other states, but that's just another great investment from an economics perspective, replacing low income people (many of whom are going to be deployed anyway, and thus spending no money in the local economy) with higher income people.
Also, California has to import a lot of things from other states - wheat, lumber, and so forth - and federal expenditures on things like transportation, agricultural research, farming subsidies (and so forth) lower the cost of these imports and keep the market stable. Further, the availability of low-cost imports of staples means California farmers can use their subsidized water to grow large amounts of luxuries such as almonds - which have a huge rate of return relative to staple crops, i.e. huge profits getting pumped into the California economy. California farmers even export crops to places like Japan, where the profits are especially high.
Even these huge profits (and the taxes on them) are not enough to make up for corruption and stupidity in California government, of course. The corruption leads to lots of what economists call "rent-seeking" behaviour - which greatly raises the cost of living, especially for housing, services, and power (heating, cooling, electric). This in turn drives a lot of poor people elsewhere, which is again a great investment from an economics perspective: those poor people aren't contributing much to the economy and won't pay much in taxes, but they are taking up housing that other people could be living in, people who will be contibuting. But it's hardly the fault of other states that California is driving poor people into other states as a result of it's inability to keep it's governm
The Absolute State