Slashdot Mirror
Ford To Stop Selling Every Car In North America But the Mustang, Focus Active (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: Ford today announced it will phase out most cars it sells in North America. According to its latest financial release, the auto giant "will transition to two vehicles" -- the Mustang and an unannounced vehicle, the Focus Active, being the only traditional cars it sells in the region. Ford sees 90 percent of its North America portfolio in trucks, utilities and commercial vehicles. Citing a reduction in consumer demand and product profitability, Ford is in turn not investing in the next generation of sedans. The Taurus is no more. The press release also talks about a new type of vehicle, though it sounds like a crossover. This so-called white space vehicle will "combine the best attributes of cars and utilities, such as higher ride height, space and versatility." Currently, Ford sells six sedans and coupes in North America: the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, C-Max, Mustang and Taurus. This lineup hits multiple segments, from the compact Fiesta to the mid-size Focus, C-Max and Fusion to the full-size Taurus. The Mustang stands alone as the lone coupe.
I love my antiquated '94 Corolla wagon, not that it's a great car or anything (although it is), but largely because it's got a low and wide profile. Makes it fun to negotiate a curve. Who wants to drive around in a high box?
Ford stops selling vehicles that consume less gas in line with new mobility taxes so only the rich can travel. Affordable vehicles wreaked havoc when the peasant population was able to leave areas with shitty abusive systems in place.
That would not be because they are low, but because they are long.
I think Honda might have been the first to do this about three decades ago when they based all their cars on just two flexible platforms. The Accord, TL, RL, TSX, Crosstour... all the same car. The smaller was the Civic and the RSX. The SUVs are similar, Pilot/MDX and CRV/RDX. They keep changing the model names to throw us off the trail, but the manufacturing is very carefully designed to minimize infrastructure, support, and design. I never figured out where the odd US models like Fit and Element fit that scheme, but they sure seemed expensive for so few units if they were unique.
There is no need to use a SlashDot sig for SEO...
The Tesla S dominates the US large luxury sedan market (34% take rate, easily outselling all competitors) and owns the dragstrip. The 3 is already the best selling EV by a wide margin and will likely be the best selling sedan in the US by year-end.
Call them toys to your heartâ(TM)s content. Especially if it helps you feel better about the collapsing resale value of your combustor relic.
Or any color as long as it's black?
They had a sedan that sold well and businesses bought in mass, but cancelled it. Bring back the Crown Vic, I can't tell todays cop cars and taxis from an uber.
In Japan almost every 6 months a new version is put on the market so consumers have something to choose from. New models look different and usually have a ton of new features. Who cares that the metal chassis is exactly the same as that of a 10 year old model?
Maybe they should try calling it the "Osbourne 2". I guess it's not the same, presumably their trucks can keep them afloat as their car sales die until the new model is really out.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
You're betting the company on SUVs, and in a few years when gas prices shoot up again, you're gonna lose the company. Does anyone really believe gas prices can stay this low for forever? I think they'll shoot up again within 5 years, just when Ford has ditched all its cars that people will actually want to buy when gas is $5 a gallon.
Margins are low, gas is cheap. Let's cut the lower profit cars.
Fast forward several years in the future when gas prices go up and SUV sales crater... "Oh no, we have no car production to fall back on for profits".
Sure, cut the unprofitable small cars that aren't all that popular in the US, but at least leave the Fusion around... it's not a poor seller. Tesla would kill to be able to produce and sell as many Model 3's in a year that Ford does with its Fusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy
Ford didnâ(TM)t need government help, GM and Chrysler is what youâ(TM)re looking for.
Uh, owns the dragstrip for *production cars* maybe. Ludicrus speed is still over a 10 second quarter mile, which is pretty much the beginning for "serious drag speed".
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Plus, you had better hope there is a Supercharger on the way home somewhere, I might add.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
High hoods are signficantly more dangerous for pedestrians.
Ford currently sells five models of sedans: Taurus, Focus RS, Fiesta, Mustang, and Focus Active. They're phasing out the first three models over the next few years, to be replaced with all new electric and hybrid models. Still spending a bit to keep the other two in production for the foreseeable future though.
> English sewing machine motors.
Completely off topic, but my boss's new Harley Sportster sounds like a huge angry sewing machine when he revs it. I made him so paranoid after saying that that he went back to the dealer to drive a used one to compare the sound.
If US consumer tastes change (as they always do) Ford is toast.
Tesla can't make enough sedans and not affordably enough
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Well, they didn't see it that way.
https://www.cnbc.com/2014/03/2...
Someone had to do it.
"US large luxury sedan market" is a very small market. SUV sales alone are two orders of magnitude higher than all large sedans combined, which is why Ford and GM are getting out of the sedan market - it's too small to make a profit.
A lot of unmarked cop cars still have steel wheels with those shiny silver caps in the center. Some places are getting trickier and ordering alloy wheels and very well hidden LED lights. Fuck everyone that buys a white/grey/black Explorer with blackout tint, how I am supposed to tell you from a cop?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Raises hand: I don't care about safety, not if it means I have to drive some econobox.
Raise hand: I don't care about Ford, not if it means I have to drive a Ford.
Sorry American car makers, I have two Hondas (2001 Civic EX and 2002 CR-V EX - both 5spd manual) and they still run like champs. Seems foreign, especially Japanese, cars have always fit me better and more comfortably than American cars.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Wow, you are one dumb shit making unsubstantiated claims. Ford never received a bailout even though one was offered. I've only ever owned Japanese vehicles, but I've been tempted to throw some money at Ford, just because they rejected the govt. bailout.
Those fins even more so. Either at the back or the front. Cyclists and pedestrians would get impaled on them like something out of Mad Max. Even the handlebars on BMX bicycles had the same hazard. Those solid steel bumpers may last for decades but they were like having blocks of concrete at the front of your car. So they moved to carbon fibre that would crumple and deform to absorb the impact for both driver and victim.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
The Tesla S dominates the US large luxury sedan market (34% take rate, easily outselling all competitors) and owns the dragstrip. The 3 is already the best selling EV by a wide margin and will likely be the best selling sedan in the US by year-end.
I have nothing against Tesla, I think the Model S is a nice car. But I do wish you fanboys would share some of what you are smoking. Ford has sold almost 2.5 million vehicles so far this year. GM has sold almost 2.1 million, Toyota a little over 2.1 million. Mercedes 375K, BMW 305K. Tesla has sold a total of 55,120 which equates to .32% of all vehicles sold in the US.
I'm pretty sure you're the same AC I've responded to before. So I'll say it again, the highest estimate of model 3's that I've seen is just over 17K. The Chevy Bolt hit 20K before the end of last year Nissan has delivered 300K Leafs as of January of this year. The Model 3 has had the highest sales of any EV for the last 2 months. That doesn't make it the best selling EV.
The S does not "own the drag strip". Top fuel dragsters accelerate from 0 to 100 mph in .8 seconds and finish the 1/4 mile in 3.7 seconds. They can damn near finish the 1/4 mile in the time it takes a Model S to get to 60 mph. If you want batshit crazy street legal, then look no further than the TransStar Racing Dagger GT. They can be ordered in 3000 HP with a 0 to 60 time of 1 second and hit 250 mph at the end of the 1/4 mile. If that's too exotic of you, then the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon does the 1/4 mile in 9.65. Or we can go back to the 1964 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt. One of those ran the 1/4 mile in 10.365 seconds.
Personally, I like to be able to take turns too. So I would rather lose at the drag strip in my Corvette and be able to take turns at over 1g. Granted, the S P100D can hit a respectable .89g.
To stop selling all but two cars.
To continue selling even more crossovers, SUVs, utes, pickups, trucks....
Co-incidentally, "non-cars" have much less stringent fuel economy regulations. Small passenger cars need to meet a corporate average of 45mpg, light trucks of the same physical size can get away with 37mpg.
Large passengers cars need to average 34mpg, while large trucks only need to get to 25mpg.
Their masterplan is to use all the money saved by shuttering all these lines into shorting Tesla, drive down its share price and buy the company.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
They forget how the company was built. A Model T was $300 in 1925 => $4,268.42 in 2018. You can't buy a new car for triple that now.
They only deliver to GM. Maybe Ford sees the writing on the wall.
For years, Detroit taught us small cars are cheap cars, and all small cars were cheap and not cheerful. Eventually the euros/japanese sent up small and NOT cheap cars, so that went away. Still, Detroit was able to charge 10K extra for a larger sedan for a long time. When the CUV/SUV became a thing, suddenly you could get your car super sized, be it a Q5 or Q7, or a Nissan Rogue or a Honda HR-V. At any price point, you can now get a "bigger" car. Most people will go for the larger car, at least in the US.
I think you're missing the point.
Tesla psychologically owns the luxury market. It's the cool kid's ride, easily analogized to the iPhone 8 or 10. Is it a pavement pounder? Yes. Is it the fastest? No. It's the coolest, or so says the buyers, who pay a huge margin to a company that barely floats its boat.
I like Corvettes, but Bowling Green lost its way, IMHO. Still very cool. But not for the cool kids. Corvettes are like Blackberrys, or maybe an LG.
Afterthought: Isn't it appropriate to use smartphone metaphors in a car thread, instead of cars in a smartphone thread?
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
The 10.44 second Tesla was gutted; you can't do that with the car as it comes from the factory. Chevy is claiming 10.6 seconds for the upcoming 2019 Corvette ZR1.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Only when said "compelling EV" sells for a loss. Like the Teslas...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
No, I think his point that Tesla "owns" an irrelevant market in the US. It's less than 1% of the entire automotive market in the US. And Tesla still loses money owning that market. Mercedes, BMW, Jag, Audi - they at least make a profit being "number 2"...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
The expanded CAFE standards drove much of the personal auto space into truck-based vehicles (SUV's etc.)
Good luck getting those repealed - benefiting the oil companies turns out to be their actual purpose.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Tesla doesn't even make "luxury cars" so how can it own the luxury market?
Teslas are low quality, cheap ass material, poorly manfactured cars with very expensive batteries. The only reason a Model S costs so much is the price of the battery pack - there is nothing "luxury" in the car.
Why do Ford owners give their children toy Fords?
So they can get used to pushing them.
1. Why?
2. Even if you do need a Supercharger, Tesla has the best network of chargers along highway routes.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Tesla makes plenty of money on the S and X. It's just that they are investing that money on bringing up the Model 3 and other projects.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Only until the volume ramps up. But you knew that already didn't you.
Kinda like McDonald's cedes the burger business to Bob'z Burgerz and Auto Parts, in Kinnipequid, Maine?
Ford sold about 7 million units last year.
Renault sold about 10 million, Honda 5 million, GM 10 million, Volkswagen 11 million, Toyota 11 million.
Tesla sold about 100,000. If they manage to increase sales by 100 times, they'll be a real car company.
Let's look at those numbers a bit differently. Tesla investors hope that Tesla grows, of course. If Tesla does extremely well and increases sales by 20% every single year, in 50 they'll be - still not one of the top 5 automakers.
FORD:
Found On Road, Discontinued
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I do. Streets in my city (Asunción) are awful. Lots of potholes and plenty of ill-designed and ill-placed speed bumps. When you have low quality streets, a high ride is a godsend.
-- Look to the Rose that blows about us--"Lo, Laughing," she says, "into the World I blow..."
My post was missing a word. If Tesla grows by 20% per year, every single year, then in 50 years they'll be - still far smaller than Toyota, Volkswagen, Daimler Chrysler, etc. That's how the math comes out. It's like comparing my YouTube channel to NBC or Discovery Networks.
In 100 years, they could be one of the top automakers, if they have strong growth every single year and never make a mistake.
That's why I welded sharpened steel spikes to my front bumper. I'm not risking a pedestrian crashing through my windscreen and possibly injuring me.
As a bonus, it's also handy against deer collisions as you just drive home with the deer still on the spikes like hunters tie their kills to their vehicles during deer hunting season. If you take your time going home, the time required to 'bleed' the carcass before dressing it out is much reduced.
People who don't want to unload everything after every trip. Which is most people, contrary to what the techbros at Uber would like to think.
Teslas have a ~300 mile range. Unless you are driving more than 150 miles each way to work, you can just charge it at home.
WTB [sig], PST!!!
Can to enlighten us with your insights or knowledge, I get the onus is on the person making the statement but I didnâ(TM)t get if you are knowledgeable and disagreed or donâ(TM)t know but have an issue with the statement
Which in reality causes worse consumption.
It would be more effective to scrap the CAFE rules and put euro tax levels on the fuel.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Tesla makes plenty of money on the S and X. It's just that they are investing that money on bringing up the Model 3 and other projects.
That's not the case at all. Money for the Model 3 is coming from investors and loans.
According to their Q4 report, their gross profit is $438 million a quarter. Of that, $146 million goes towards paying interest on their loans. Another $1 billion goes to other expenses, including R&D, marketing and administrative. Notice how they're already $600 million the red before we even get to the $786 million in capital expenditures (aka. factory construction).
So they paying for all this with loans, which is not really sustainable.
To get in the black, they'll need a combination of several things:
- Drastically increase gross profit.
- Cut R&D, marketing and administrative spending.
- Reduce interest costs.
- Stop building new factories.
I personally don't think any of those are viable. Their margin is relatively high at 19% right now because they're selling luxury models. But the Model 3 will have a much lower margin, perhaps only 10% (which is what Ford is working with). Even if they can sell their target 5,000 Model 3's a week, we're still looking at only $200 million in additional gross profit for the quarter. The other $400 million loss will have to be made up with cost cuts.
Maybe they can kill R&D ($350 million) at the cost of future competitiveness, but marketing and administrative expenses can't be cut without affecting sales or production.
Not much can be done about interest costs, since it's the banks that set the rates. They also need the money right now, so paying the loans off is not an option.
As for capital expenditures, well, they're definitely not going to make enough sales to save them if they don't have factories for the production volume.
All in all a pretty bleak picture. But they have the backings of millions of fanboys and more importantly, investors, so they'll be ok until something bad happens to Musk. Even if they did get out of this hole though, I still don't see them turning into the next Apple or Amazon.
High hoods are signficantly more dangerous for pedestrians.
What? Who told you that? They are off their nut. High hoods are much safer for pedestrians, both because they have less distance to fall onto them, and because there's more room under the hood for crumple space to absorb energy if you hit one.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I think exception would be taken if I ran an extension cord from my second-story window into the parking lot and across to where I could actually park. I also suspect that my car would not remain plugged-in for as long as I might need.
"I have nothing against Tesla, I think the Model S is a nice car. But I do wish you fanboys would share some of what you are smoking. Ford has sold almost 2.5 million vehicles so far this year. GM has sold almost 2.1 million, Toyota a little over 2.1 million. Mercedes 375K, BMW 305K. Tesla has sold a total of 55,120 which equates to .32% of all vehicles sold in the US." you need to compare like with like, comparing numbers of a premium priced tesla to mass produced box numbers doesn't give a true picture. There are not many newcomers to such a huge capital/manufacturing industry that can changed the landscape like Tesla have in such a short time.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Is it just me, or does it seem like focusing your resources and trying to get the most out as little as possible has become something of a religion for companies? I know companies have in the past re-used platforms for multiple products, the best car industry example of this is the VW Golf chassis used in over a dozen different models from 4 different makes, but it seems like literally everyone wants to do that now.
It's not just re-using underlying tech, you also see companies more often not only farm out the production of both generic components and those specific to them, but also farm out the development of even the application-specific components to the subcontractors who make them. Boeing did with the 787 Dreamliner and the end result of that was huge delays and cost overruns along with some serious doubts on their safety and quality as leaked documents show that they've bypassed their own internal quality and safety standards for schedule-related reasons.
"Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
I want one of those "white space vehicles". Though, to be honest, I'm not too bothered about the color...
Garry Knight
The Mustangs are dirt cheap in the US, because they are no tax worth the name on it.
No wonder they keep selling there.
I mean, it's an April Fool's gag, right? It's too absurd to be real.
Screw mileage, it hurts safety. In my compact sedan I can't see dick if there's an SUV or crossover in front of me. And I don't want to drive one of those. Probably because I'm already tall and so I don't need to make myself feel big artificially. Nor do I have kids to take to soccer practice.
Well damn, I guess we should scrap the whole idea of EVs then because you can't charge one.
You know there's literally hundreds of millions of people that have driveways and garages that can, right? If it's not a good solution for you, don't buy one. Gasoline will still be a thing for some time.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Long and low hoods might look nice, but they're dangerous. The Jaguar E-Type and third generation Corvettes are incredible looking, but they're relics from a time when we didn't care about safety. The efficiency trade-off is worth it.
Not only do they look nice, but they're also aerodynamic. Low drag means less fuel burned, faster cornering means less acceleration. I mean are you trying to kill the entire planet with your SUV that has the aerodynamics of a brick which produces more drag than Ru Paul?
I'll have the F-type thanks, in a manual. Blue, with a black leather interior because I'm not geriatric or homosexual enough to have cream leather.
Whilst I do laud the safety features in cars, things that make a difference like airbags, anti-lock brakes, seatbelts and seatbelt pre-tensioners... sometimes health and fucking safety has really gone stark raving mad and I'm not one given to using that phrase readily (that's for angry Daily Mail readers tweeting in their underpants... Its your fault for reading the bloody Daily Mail and put some trousers on you dirty old scrote). So the long, sleek bonnet is slightly more likely to injure a pedestrian... Maybe pedestrians should look both ways before crossing the road and not run out in front of moving cars. I guarantee it that more people are mowed down by SUV drivers not paying attention in their 5 star EuroNCAP crapboxes than are killed by the long swooping bonnets of the world so which one should we be banning?
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
You're right, of course. The last thing I did before falling asleep last night was post that. Apparently part of my brain was already asleep.
20% growth each year for 20 years would get them into the top 10 automakers, if none of the other companies grew.
The new Vettes? Just don't walk in front of them.
How often is a pedestrian hit by a vette? Seriously. How big of a problem is this?
Hell, I rarely even SEE a Vette anymore.
Aren't most Fords made in Mexico now?
Despite a State Law that claims motorists have to stop for Pedestrians in a crosswalk I have close calls once a week outside my office. If I could park closer I would. Drivers need to stop playing with the blasted phones, GPS, tablets, in dash entertainment systems, and just drive.
Space under the hood to crumple when a pedestrian falls on one? How crumply are your hoods or how heavy are your pedestrians? Oh right America, plenty heavy, carry on.
Every developed nation has adopted standards similar to ours, and America is no longer the fattest developed nation. We're just ahead of the curve.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Ford execs may be called on the carpet when gas hits $5 a gallon prices again
Yes the trucks are lighter and so can use smaller more fuel efficient engines but Ford went with turbos on most of the line
Turbos engines still have to prove that they can put in the service of a normally asperated v8 and they are always going to be more expensive to maintain
The Mustang is a somewhat impractical sports car, the coach space is small and the sills are huge.
They must be nice in states where there is not much snow and it also is not a mileage champ
Maybe the execs at Ford are throwing a tantrum because Trump stomped on their idea to move all production to Mexico?
EXACTLY what I was thinking. WTF Ford?
The Ford F-150 is one of the best selling models they have and they are re-introducing the Ranger.. Surely, they will keep selling Trucks?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Did you not read the subject line before replying?
Yes, Ford is over 100 years old. The claim was that Tesla has beaten Ford. Which is ridiculous. The weather affects Ford more than Tesla does. In 100 years, Tesla might matter in the auto industry. Today, Tesla is mostly a pyramid scheme.
I'll buy another american (Ford/GM/Chrysler) car as soon as they make one that can go past 150K miles without looking like they're about to fall apart. Hell, I'll take 100K, honestly. For some reason, their trucks/SUVs do a much better job at hitting the 150K milestone, however certain Japanese and European makes hit those almost effortlessly without breaking the bank on repairs on the way and generally still are presentable even when they hit 200K.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
I do all those things, and on weeks I don't use the bus at all, I drive 350 miles a WEEK.
And there's charging stations at the grocery store.
~Donald / Just RTFM
Lower vehicles get into fewer accidents, and are less likely to flip when they do.
Woo, car can accelerate.
I want a car that can accelerate, turn corners and still drive me from Verdun to Nottingham via Givet and Ypres without needing hours charging.
Oh wait. That's the trip I just did. I guess I own one.
We have tried Ford cars. And they are shitty and low quality. It is so easy to blame external factors, rather than looking into your own dysfunctional structure.
Japanese, cars have always fit me better and more comfortably than American cars.
This is largely a myth. Two cars coming off the same production line, one goes left, gets Toyota badging, the other goes right and gets GM. Which one has the higher customer rating? Yup, Toyota. Better life cycle too. Same parts, same labor, same everything, what is the difference?
Turns out, how people VIEW their cars matters. They take care of cars that they think will last, and don't take care of cars that are "cheap". Self fulfilling.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
This is largely a myth. Two cars coming off the same production line, one goes left, gets Toyota badging, the other goes right and gets GM. Which one has the higher customer rating? Yup, Toyota. Better life cycle too. Same parts, same labor, same everything, what is the difference?
But... the cars aren't identical. And it seems that in the various rental and friends' cars I've driven over the years that are from US makers, the positions of some/many of the controls are just a little bit off from where I need them to be to reach and operate comfortably. This seems to be less so in Japanese cars.
Perhaps my height 5'6' and particular build are a factor and/or it's just what I'm use to at this point, being 54. My first car was a '69 VW Beetle I bought from my grandfather for $25, my next was a one-year old '87 Honda Prelude SI and my current is a '01 Civic EX. My wife had an '82 Accord hatchback when I met her in 1985, then a '91 Celica GT and lastly an '02 CR-V EX -- she died in 2006, and I still both of the last Hondas. The next time I need a new(er) vehicle, I'll look around as I'm sure many things have changed over time, but will probably get another Honda -- although it seem that they're moving to all keyless entry and ignition, which I hate.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
>So they paying for all this with loans
So they are paying for all this with equity.
There, fixed it for you.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
How much profit does Tesla make? None. How much volume do they have to ramp up to make a profit? When will that happen?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I'd say both. They increased long-term debt from $5.9 billion to $9.4 billion last year.
How is this 'news for nerds, stuff that matters?'
This is a marketing story, not a tech story - Ford is going eliminate every consumer car but Mustang, some crossover vehicle, and trucks... big deal - I'm curious how they will meet their CAFE requirements? I thought the low-price, low-emission econo shit boxes were sold to bend the CAFE standard down to allow ford to sell Expeditions?
I remember one time ford used to force dealers to take delivery of an Escort with every Expedition they took delivery of from the factory, to ensure they met their CAFE requirements.
Ken
Why do you believe that SUVs are exempt from CAFE requirements?
Ken
My first car was a 1982 GT Mustang. I of course got it used in 1995 and the odometer had flipped at least once, I suspect it may have flipped twice. Due to problems with that car and the other Fords my friends had in the mid-90's I wrote Ford off as a bad vehicle. Seriously, that one power-steering pump they put in EVERYTHING they had from about 1976ish all the way to 1999ish was something I had to change a dozen of in high-school, there were serious alternator issues from the factory from some of their higher end vehicles - they didn't put in alternators big enough to support the premium stereos and a host of other issues.
Time went on.
Toyota and Honda, which were pretty much looked down upon as "the poor people cars" when I was growing up in the 80's and 90's proved to be exactly what America needed.
Rumor has it that at some time in the 60's or 70's the Big Four got together and decided that no vehicle should make it much past 100,000 miles without need of a major repair, then about 50,000 miles after that. Turns out they were really, really good about making sure that was the case.
AMC cratered. Chrysler turned out trash, and GM overall wasn't all that bad besides some electrical issues for quite a while, while sticking to that 100,000 mile thing. The fact they were working with both Toyota and Isuzu off and on is probably what put them a little ahead on quality.
Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, other Japanese vehicles a few European cars, and all of the sudden Korean cars rightfully began to eat into the American market place at levels a few cute little Beetles running around in the past never could.
Ford - to their credit - was the first American car company to pull their heads out of their asses and decide quality mattered in about 2005. We saw a new Ford and by God over time they became impressive.
First of all Chrysler shit the sheets, isn't actually American anymore having changed hands twice in Europe THEN they took the government bail-out.
GM pissed all over the American way pretty much being the welfare queen in the bailout. I believe in a free market, open trade, and voting with your dollars. The GM federal bailout to me was the equivalent of a blatantly rigged election. I can't look at GM vehicles anymore without thinking that vehicle was the victor of a rigged election. I voted with my dollars, and so did most the rest of America and we voted for someone else. GM should have failed or sold out - but not to tax payers.
Ford on the other hand only took a little bailout and paid it back quickly - that was almost a formality from what I understand and very political. Sure Henry Ford was pro-Hitler and a lot of what has come out of Fords past as pure evil, but I really do think the modern company, over-all, is turning over a new leaf. It's not - not-evil, don't get me wrong, I think most big corporations are big beast that have sold their souls (they do legally count as people after all) and Ford's no different, but at least they've stopped being tyrants and have started to do their jobs - which is sell good cars that people want them. I can forgive the Hitler thing - after all one of my cars is a Volkswagen.
Modern Ford cars are awesome - except for their inexplicable horrific polished-turd stereo systems.
I've got a Transit Connect Wagon. I absolutely love it, and my wife does too. My dad, who's very critical of mini-vans even said "Heck, that's a useful van you can drive for the family and you don't even have to put your balls in your wife's purse to do it". The thing gets better mileage than the data-sheet says. I can just hit 30 MPG on a flat highway with low traffic in good weather. It's not rated for that. For a seven passenger vehicle it's super impressive. The only thing I really have to complain about is it has a fucking MICROSOFT stereo with all the joys of running Windows entails. I occasionally have to shut down the van and disconnect the battery so voice recognition and Bluetooth will work again.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
An SUV has to weigh over 8,500 pounds to be exempt - that's hummer/excursion-sized.
https://www.popularmechanics.c...
Ken
I suspect that in the long term, it will pan out to be equity. But then they might just make a big profit and pay it off that way. In the context of a large auto manufacturer, $10B is not a whole lot. They just need to get big and profitable. I made hay on Ford bonds in the bad days of the recession. They borrowed a lot more than that.
My crystal ball isn't working though.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Ford was able to secure a huge loan before the credit markets seized in 2008, which allowed them to ride out the worst of the recession. If not for that loan they would have gone bankrupt too.
Well-Timed Borrowing Sets Ford Apart From Rivals
I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
Fixed costs and variable costs. Have fun learning.
..the market is filled with morans and their brokers who only care about commissions.
The Morans are a fine people.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
You're = you are ...not your...
I will just point you to this excellent post detailing why you're wrong. The usual "capital investments!" doesn't hold - fixed costs currently push Tesla into a loss. NOT variable costs.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
So you don't like learning then, suit yourself.
If you did, you could go through that post and tell which were which.
Since you won't, I'll just point out this little bit mentioned in that post.
But the Model 3 will have a much lower margin, perhaps only 10%
Now in the same way that zero is less than 10.
10 is also greater than zero.
Don't get a new one. You've got some of the last good Hondas.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Sorry about your neighborhood/roads.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Good analogy - and as you may recall, the Serenity did have a 'pedestrian' bounce off its windshield.
No Taurus faurus!
Jaguar might be more reliable now, but Land/Range Rovers still seem to struggle to get high mileage without having to replace expensive things such as transmissions and engines.
The car makers have fixed their engines lasting too long. 20 weight oil makes 150K issue academic. But you do get an extra 0.1 mpg.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Don't get a new one. You've got some of the last good Hondas.
Thanks for the good advice. It's also generally less expensive to keep than to replace the cars, which were both paid off a long time ago. I have 119k miles on the 2001 Civic and 47k miles on the 2002 CR-V (it was my wife's, who died in Jan 2006). Some service items are by years and/or miles, and I usually hit the year marks. Thankfully, the CR-V has a timing chain that never needs replacement, unlike the timing belt in the Civic - which has been replaced twice so far. I just replaced (myself) both wiper linkage arms on my Civic because a bushing broke on one and I noticed a bushing was cracked on the other -- it wasn't too difficult, especially as I have a service manual for that car. It is getting to the point where I may have to get after-market parts going forward as OEM ones are discontinued...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
What will police departments do? Crown vic was their go to car. Black people around the country know it well.
So do white people, shut up.
So you're saying the Tesla S can do a 10 second quarter mile with 4 people sitting in it? Otherwise who cares?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
What are you talking about? I live in America, I own a Toyota, it was manufactured by Hino (a subsidiary of Toyota) in Japan. And yes, it really was made in Japan, (the VIN starts with J). The one, SINGLE joint Toyota/GM plant (NUMMI) was shut down in 2010.
I've owned several Japanese cars, and they were all built in Japan and came over here on a boat. But these days, it's common for Japanese cars sold in America to be made in America from American parts, including Toyotas.
Now the Germans, they mostly don't build vehicles here. BMW builds most of the X series here, VW builds the Passat and Atlas, and Mercedes builds GLE and GLS-class vehicles here, and that's about it. However, that does probably account for most American consumption of German vehicles today.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Did you even read your own link? The Honda Passport was a rebadged Isuzu. After they dropped that model, they came out with their own SUV, which was the Honda Pilot. Which was actually a pretty nice SUV at first, until it turned into an ugly bloated pig of a vehicle.
They aren't exempt, but "light trucks" fall under different rules. That's why almost everything now is a light truck.
And what do you think Uber going to pick you up with? A unicorn?
It's like asking a company that makes servers if they are worried about the "cloud".