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A Smart Doorbell Company Is Working With Cops To Report 'Suspicious' People, Activities (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Smart doorbell company Ring is making it easier for customers to call the cops on "suspicious" people and activities. The startup, which Amazon acquired for reportedly "more than" $1 billion this year, uses security cameras to let people monitor their entryways. Now, it's launching its Neighbors app -- a platform for reporting crime that, so far, police in Fort Lauderdale and Orlando, and the Ventura Sheriff's Department, have access to. "Over the next days and weeks, law enforcement across the U.S. will be joining Neighbors," a Ring spokesperson told me over email.
The app, while presented as a crime-fighting aid, could also be a new place for paranoid people to profile fellow citizens, as similar platforms in the past have turned out to be. According to the company's statement in a press release for Neighbors today: "In addition to receiving push notifications about potential security issues, app users can see recent crime and safety posts uploaded by their neighbors, the Ring team and local law enforcement via an interactive map. If a neighbor notices suspicious activity in their area, they can post their own text, photo or video and alert the community to proactively prevent crime."
The app, while presented as a crime-fighting aid, could also be a new place for paranoid people to profile fellow citizens, as similar platforms in the past have turned out to be. According to the company's statement in a press release for Neighbors today: "In addition to receiving push notifications about potential security issues, app users can see recent crime and safety posts uploaded by their neighbors, the Ring team and local law enforcement via an interactive map. If a neighbor notices suspicious activity in their area, they can post their own text, photo or video and alert the community to proactively prevent crime."
It was already decided a few years ago that in Florid it is OK to just go ahead and shoot people you are afraid of (ie "suspicious people") and ask questions later (if ever). Why bother installing a smart doorbell when you are entitled to carry whatever gun fits your budget and ego?
Florida. If the heat doesn't kill you, the alligators will. If the alligators don't kill you, the viruses will. If the viruses don't kill you, the locals will.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
In Florida it was decided that it was OK to shoot someone much larger than yourself who had you down on the ground and was slamming your head into the concrete. That's not the same thing as just shooting anyone who looks suspicious.
My local police force has something similar already. You get SMS when there are "issues" in your neighborhood. A website also allows you to view recent crime in the area. You don't need to be paranoid to be vigilant.
Nope. Seems legit.
A lot of my neighbors have doorbell cameras and will post suspicious stuff to community Facebook groups, occasionally to law enforcement. Lets just hope there are limits put in place. They're security cameras, not public tracking devices.
My daughter's neighborhood had several cars broken into. The neighborhood watch has a facebook group that alerted members. They all polled their surveillance cameras and each found the same van casing their houses throughout the area. They emailed all the pictures to the local Sheriff's department and they caught the van in another area the next night. Cameras are everywhere now and if neighbors unite they have an amazing amount of coverage.
Are the stereotypical old ladies of the future going to monitor their Neighbors app instead of a police scanner?
Joking aside, I wonder if this will do more to create false perceptions of danger than it will to keep people genuinely informed.
Stand Your Ground Laws give you the right to shoot anyone you think is going after you
I hope paranoia social network is equally paranoid about their networks security, because the paranoid are always such fun to hack.
I love it how Americans ridiculed the UK for the high amount of CCTV Cameras and surveillance. Yet When Americans do it to themselves , and hand over their "sovereignty" and "rights" to a company, not a government entity, it's "Freedom"
It's unfortunate that Ring gets all the press, as Skybell is such a better product.
Wider working temperature range (rather important for us in the deep Northeast), and no charge for cloud access to a week's worth of videos. We've been loving ours... integrated just fine into SmartThings.
It's like Norton/McAfee.... the lesser product in the class gets all the name recognition, while better alternatives go around relatively unknown.
No, they give you the right to shoot someone who is actively threatening you.
Think implies that a mental ward escapee who see everyone as the devil incarnate gets a free pass. Which is not true. But liberals wish it was because then they wouldn't have me posting this proving liberals are liars.
Any monetized security sounds suspicious to me. Being owned by Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, or any of the other tech giants certainly doesn't help your cause in my book. If I'm forced to share my data with you then I'm not playing. There are plenty of cheap-Chinese-plastic-crap options that allow you keep your data private and some of them are actually getting better at basic IoT security.
That's not the same thing as just shooting anyone who looks suspicious.
Except that the fight was picked by the guy with the gun, not by the teenager who was "armed" only with a candy bar and a bottle of iced tea. The armed idiot could have followed the advice of the dispatcher instead and the unarmed kid would still be alive today.
Florida endorsed his terrible decision, and has let other similar idiots off the hook for shooting at people who they were afraid of (regardless of whether or not there was any reason for said fear).
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
You know the break-ins in that neighborhood stopped after that teenager was killed, right?
You know that correlation is not causation, right?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I, for one, welcome our new fully-automated robotic curtain-twitching overlords.
...also, are we really saying that the appropriate sentencing response to theft is death? I'm not on board with that. That's how you get people you are pretty sure stole something, but who didn't steal something, killed.
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
Paranoid Caucasians living in isolated suburbs. Now im sure this will get downvoted to oblivion, but unless and until you've lived with these people you've no clue just how willing a specific segment of the American population is to buy just one more thing to "keep their family safe."
I moved back into my parents old home in an Ohio suburb temporarily after they died in order to auction off the estate and sell the property. Granted this was in 2010 so the economy was about as stable a foundation as the Los Angles I had lived the bulk of my adult life in, but I was prepared for a long sale anyhow. In the first two weeks I lived there I got 3 neighbors banging on my door announcing themselves and nearly demanding to know who i was, who my wife was, what school my kids went to, and how many cars I owned. I was left politely at some point with a cake from Wal-Mart and a suggested church. At the end of the month I received a phone call from the local police department reporting a burglar had entered the home and had been detained after claiming to be my husband. After confirming he was indeed my husband with police, who seemed stunned to see actual gay people, life settled back down to normal with the exception of the now monthly 'jesus saves' fliers that would arrive unsolicited on my car windshield from neighbourhood kids.
A month passes and we're both playing Borderlands in the living room when we notice a handful of police walking alongside the house to the back yard. The neighbours who were standing proudly in our driveway, had called the police on our utility meter reader, who was black. After enduring a half hour with the neighbours explaining everything from make-believe methamphetamine addicts to the second amendment and gun ownership, they left.
long story short, we finally sold the property and moved back to LA, but the obsession with night prowlers, evil lurking in the shadows, drug addicts, and the paranoid gun culture was pretty shocking. This was a city thats biggest crime was a McDonalds truck that had lost its brakes and slid backwards into an adjacent sandwich shop, yet everyone on the block was geared up like a K-Town shop owner in the LA riots. It made zero sense...however if you're selling a doorbell that profiles people, ive got just the customer.
Good people go to bed earlier.
If I were breaking into homes in an area and then some vigilante started killing people that he found suspicious, I think I might stop breaking into homes around there, too.
Different AC. Could someone post a link to whatever event they are talking about? They being the singular they. As in I am asking you to cite whatever event you are referring to, and my fellow AC to cite whatever event they are referring to.
bool isSuspiciousPerson = person == minority;
if (isSuspiciousPerson)
callCops();
You know the break-ins in that neighborhood stopped after that teenager was killed, right?
If you were a thief, would you want to break into houses in a neighborhood where they kill people just walking down the street? I'd stay away from that neighborhood too!
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Even so I can infer from your comment that you are an idiot.
Why is Snark Required?
That wasn't the point. Whether Martin was or wasn't the thief, his death solved the problem that neighborhood had. It seems to me the neighborhood watch system, for which Zimmerman was a part, was ultimately successful.
You know the break-ins in that neighborhood stopped after that teenager was killed, right?
Citation sorely needed. Really, Trayvon Martin was responsible for all of the break-ins in that neighborhood, such that after his death burglary ceased to be a thing that happens there? Somehow, I'm skeptical.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Do stand your ground laws give you the right to shoot the off duty cop behind you who pulls a gun on you because he thinks you're stealing Mentos? (Asking for a friend,)
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
So says a liberal that is upset he can't rape women in Florida without worrying about getting shot while doing it. Or you might just be robbing elderly retired people in Florida.
Just because citizens can make it dangerous for criminals doesn't mean its wrong. Most of us in Florida are not criminals and have no issue with this.
*note: A black woman in Florida is serving 20 years for firing a gun in the air when her boyfriend was beating her. Happened before this law and was probably one of the reasons for it. But I guess you dislike black women and think they shouldn't be able to defend themselves either.
In Cali, you can get a restraining order against people solely on the basis of saying you're afraid of them... even if you have a history of hospitalization for paranoia. Take a while to let that sink in.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
So whenever there is a crime, we should shoot someone at random to solve the problem? Brilliant!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law means that if someone breaks into your home and threatens your life, you're not required to run away. You'll still have to convince a jury that you justifiably felt your life was in danger.
The case you're referring to was simple self defense.
I couldn't imagine living somewhere where defending yourself or your family could land you in prison. THAT is scary.
My daughter is under 13 years old and is sells cookies door to door (*).
Does Ring collect personal information about her (for example, data for facial recognition)?
What prevents her video from being published on "Customer Stories"?
If (just for giggles) a jerk tags her video as "suspicious activity", will she be met at a later doorway by someone with a hostile mindset?
(*) She does't go to doors with "No Soliciting" signs.
because when they automate everything, they can sack all those minimum wage drones and then stop them breaking into rich people's homes because that is the only way left to feed themselves/family.
Depends on the state laws, etc....
A few years back, here in LA, there was a case where a guy came out on the balcony of his 2nd story apartment, and saw just below in the parking lot, 2 thieves in his car rummaging around stealing stuff.
He pulled out his gun and opened fire, killing one and wounding the other I believe, that ran off.
They actually tried to try him, but no jury would convict him.
I was actually surprised it went to trial at all, as that here in LA, the car is considered and extension of your home.
In TX, I believe you can freely open fire if you find someone on your property stealing stuff.
Frankly, I have no problem with that....if they'd not been committing the crime on property they didn't now own, they'd be happily alive and processing oxygen.
If I'm home and someone breaks in to my house, I assume 100%, that the person means bodily harm to myself, family/friends within and I won't even be checking the body till I'm loading my 3rd magazine generally.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
>felonious assault on a person is not justification to use deadly force
That's just what you said.
The teenagers had reached his home and was safe and went back out to pick a fight with the idiot who was following him. Assholes all around.
If you have off-duty cops who pull guns on people for suspicion of stealing Mentos then they deserve shooting, yes.
(And does your friend think that pointing guns at people is a friendly gesture?)
No sig today...
, his death solved the problem that neighborhood had.
You can't study a neighborhood in a vacuum. Can you support the notion that absolutely nothing else in that neighborhood changed? Nobody moved out, nobody changed jobs, police presence didn't change, taxes didn't change? Many things changed at the same time that had nothing to do with the senseless murder of a teenager. You cannot support the notion that his death somehow magically changed the neighborhood into Utopia.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
"the fight was picked" - citation please. You're saying that nobody is allowed to walk down the street when Trayvon Martin is walking down the same street? You're not allowed to get out of your car and walk down the street when Trayvon Martin is there? How does that work?
LOL at "the unarmed kid". If he was still alive today, he would be in prison for one of the crimes he would have subsequently committed... or didn't you know he had a history of crime... or did you believe the media's laughable use of photos of him when he was TWELVE, even though he was 16 when he tried to kill Zimmerman...
>he thinks it was a senseless murder!
Martin was killed by Zimmerman because Martin was assaulting him. Zimmerman showed in court he feared for his life and the use of deadly force was justified. It was not murder. It was not even manslaughter. I invite you to have someone slam your head against concrete and tell me with a straight face you wouldn't be afraid for your life. Zimmerman shooting Martin to stop the attack is actually the most reasonable course of action in that circumstance.
Why are you stealing Mentos in the first place? Just don't break the law and you won't have to worry. If there is a law you think is unfair, you can fight it legally and get it changed if enough people agree with you.
Martin was defending himself from Zimmerman. He was being followed and harassed by an older, larger, armed man when we was himself doing nothing wrong. He had reason to fear Zimmerman and took action against him to protect himself. Zimmerman picked the fight and should be in jail, he had no business confronting Martin.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Just fuck this world. Is it time to die yet because I'm fucking READY!
Have you seen this Slashdot video yet? Have you bought the family freindly Goat C shirt?
- FatCashewsLoveMe
That guy with the Mentos had paid for them. This was not good behavior for the off-duty cop who pulled the gun. Very bad optics, and scared the crap out of that guy.
So the question really is... Who in the heck buys Mentos anymore?
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
I have one of these cameras and so far it's recorded a couple knock-knock thieves, my BMW M3 getting stolen (yanked onto a flatbed and gone in under 60 seconds) and also captured the boyfriend of a girl I know making out with another girl while they were alone on my porch.
It's also exposed my ring-using neighbors as a (virtually) huddled bunch of paranoid slut shaming racists who aren't aware of due process, or even innocent until proven guilty.
It really is disgusting.
I'm getting rid of my Ring, mostly because it's too unreliable. It often just stops working and doesnt respond to anything for days (i did everything tech support asked and more) It's not a bad idea, the ring thing (and its been around for at least a year so this is not really news) I will miss being about to see whos at the door but i won't miss hearing my neighbors whine about ever pedestrian that passes theie houses.
chris watts íë¦ìS ì(TM)ì
They're only paranoid if the fears are unfounded. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but crime statistics speak for themselves.
Studies have examined if ethnic/racially heterogeneous areas, most often neighborhoods in large cities, have higher crime rates than more homogeneous areas. Most studies find that the more ethnically/racially heterogeneous an area is, the higher its crime rates tend to be.
>arguing against evidence entered into the public record in a court of law and conflating two separate events.
I am flabbergasted you think assault is a reasonable course of action when someone is following you. Here's a thought: why didn't Martin just, oh I don't know, walk away? Why did he escalate the situation?
man we really have short memories, either that or you are flat out lying. which is it?
I was out of work at that time so I watched the entire trial. Trayvons girlfriend told the court under oath that trayvon was home, then told her he was going back out to confront "that cracker"
BR so in short, trayvon instigated the issue, as walking behind someone isnt a crime, and trayvon was also racist.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
trayvon made the first contact not the other way around, per trayvons girlfriend under oath. last i checked, walking behind someone isnt a crime
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
You can exercise the courts however you like so long as you bring the fee.
Yeah...
In related news: SMS reports of incidents of "person of color hanging out in a wealthy area" have spiked 500%. News at 11.
You're conflating "Stand Your Ground" with "Castle Doctrine".
Stand Your Ground applies anywhere - not just your home. In states without Stand Your Ground even if you feel your life is in danger, you have whats referred to as a "Duty to retreat". IE, run away if you can. Stand Your Ground states that you have no duty to retreat and if your life is in danger then you can respond with deadly force.
Castle Doctrine applies in your home, and it not only means that you have no duty to retreat, but also that the mere presence of an intruder in your home is by default considered a threat to your life, and so you can use deadly force immediately. IE, if you come downstairs and there's a stranger standing in your living room you're clear to shoot - even if they have said or done nothing else. Their mere presence is considered a threat.
Castle Doctrine does have it's limits though. It's not applicable cases where home owners have "baited" criminals into the home, or where the criminal has already surrendered then the threat is considered ended (ie, you can't tie up an intruder and then shoot them, nor can you leave your door open with a stack of cash visible while you wait in the corner with a gun).
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Many suburban townships require a permit for door-to-door sales. If they can't ban them outright, it's the next best thing. Our township at least assures us that the cops will come if a salesperson doesn't have the permit. This door camera functionality will help the cops know who to scout for. Better than having to get your digital camera out and try to take a picture of the perp(s)' face(s).
the citation is his girlfriends testimony where she stated in court that he went home, and told her he was going back out to confront "that cracker"
he was a racist, and he picked a fight with the wrong buy. zimmerman is a dbag, but so was trayvon
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
What happened to the homicide rate?
They're talking about Trayvon "could have been Obama's son" Martin.
>he thinks it was a senseless murder! Martin was killed by Zimmerman because Martin was assaulting him. Zimmerman showed in court he feared for his life and the use of deadly force was justified. It was not murder. It was not even manslaughter.
Zimmerman broke the first rule of self defense that they teach in gun safety course: don't put yourself into situations where you are not safe. He could have remained in his vehicle to follow Martin or, as advised by the 911 operator, not followed him at all. His reckless actions started him down a course that ended with him being in a position where he felt he needed to fire his weapon. And I would say that the fact that he keeps getting in trouble for threatening people and waving his gun around demonstrates that he probably isn't competent enough to continue owning firearms.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
So to stop break ins just execute a random person in each neighbourhood? Got it.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Well no. Some one who has drowned or been shot has very clear reasons for death that can be fully explained. What can't be explained is why as the global temperature has risen the total number of pirates has declined but it's clear we need more pirates to stabilise the temperature.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
All guns should have cameras on them, then the courts can easily tell if each shooting was justified. If the camera is disabled, then the person is automatically convicted of the crime.
Seriously, ring continues to send the data to China. Not impressed.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
>arguing against evidence entered into the public record in a court of law and conflating two separate events. I am flabbergasted you think assault is a reasonable course of action when someone is following you. Here's a thought: why didn't Martin just, oh I don't know, walk away? Why did he escalate the situation?
Wait, so its ok for one party to escalate the violence but not the other? Zimmerman was justified in his shooting because he was afraid but Martin should've just walked away?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
I've lived in large single family home residential neighborhood in a city (looks suburban, but is in the city) for 19 years and over the past 5+ years, the amount of nuisance theft has skyrocketed. Just on my *block* it's not unusual to hear about a car being rifled, strange "door to door" sales people with no materials/identification/logos. We had a rash of car entries using keyless entry repeaters and a couple of sneak burglaries (snatching purses from kitchen tables). Over a week last November, the entire larger neighborhood was hit by package thieves, including my house. 3 different people had footage of the car involved.
I had a long conversation with my council member about what can be done and was told that we should just report it and then do insurance or whatever. I asked why we couldn't get more police patrols and was told our area was "too low crime" (the numbers say we're the lowest crime area in the city) and there wasn't sufficient resources.
So what the fuck? Just put up with it? That's the answer? Or just change my thinking, it *must* be my racial bias?
Or this is somehow really ad-hoc redistributive economic justice, and I'm just too racist to notice?
If I were breaking into homes in an area and then some vigilante started killing people that he found suspicious, I think I might stop breaking into homes around there, too.
Maybe until they do something about the guy shooting everyone he didn't like the look of.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
trayvon made the first contact not the other way around, per trayvons girlfriend under oath. last i checked, walking behind someone isnt a crime
Sure. If it was the other way around and a black guy was walking behind a white guy and the white guy confronted the black guy, you'd be okay with the black guy killing him, right? It would be a fool's errand to believe that the black guy would most likely be acquitted.
How about if someone was walking behind you the same way Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon in Baltimore? Or Chicago? Or any other so-called "criminal's paradise"? Nothing illegal with walking behind you, but I'm sure they would be arrested for harassment or some other crime pretty quickly if police were called.
You clearly have little exposure to Indians and Asians because if you did, you'd see a huge potential market there. In fact, I could see UMC blacks that I've known be even more open about who they're targeting with it.
At the time Zimmerman left the car: 1) 911 operators are not sworn officers and their recommendations are just that, and 2) Martin was safe inside his home. For all intents, Zimmerman entered a safe situation. Why Martin decided he needed to go out and face
that cracker
we will fortunately never know.
And I would say that the fact that he keeps getting in trouble for threatening people and waving his gun around demonstrates that he probably isn't competent enough to continue owning firearms.
[citation needed]
The best thing you do is shoot the owner of the doorbell. You will notice that there will be a serious decline in the number of crimes that need to be solved as well the fact that those people will see a serious decrease in repeat crimes.
That can only mean one thing: It works because the guilty person is punished.
We could even go one step further and shoot those people who own said doorbell and prevent a LOT of crime.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Defending himself from someone looking at him?
By sneaking up behind him and bashing his head in?
You're retarded.
Don't attack people and you won't get shot.
Following someone isn't attacking them.
Bashing their head in is.
How do you remember to breathe in the morning?
I had a long conversation with my council member about what can be done and was told that we should just report it and then do insurance or whatever. I asked why we couldn't get more police patrols and was told our area was "too low crime" (the numbers say we're the lowest crime area in the city) and there wasn't sufficient resources.
So what the fuck? Just put up with it? That's the answer? Or just change my thinking, it *must* be my racial bias?
Or this is somehow really ad-hoc redistributive economic justice, and I'm just too racist to notice?
So how about you, or someone in your neighborhood, run for city council and push for increased police patrols?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Cops who were called to stop a robbery in progress had never heard of AirBnB and attempted to arrest 3 black women this week.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
I love the scare quotes around "suspicious", like that's just some crazy impossible concept.
last i checked, walking behind someone isnt a crime
Willfully following someone who doesn't want you to do so is harassment. Even in Florida, even "following" someone on social media is illegal (cyberstalking) if it's intended to cause emotional distress.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
this is all mute. dead men don't talk.
that is, how do you prove martin was defending himself when only martin and zimmerman were present? martin is dead. ergo the only eye witness is zimmerman. case closed. anythign else is philosophical, in the eyes of the law he ded.
you poor thing must be using a god damn pellet gun if it takes you two full magazines to knock em down dead. I've always subscribed to the "One Shot, One Kill" school and that there is no such thing as "overkill".
Call it the Armed Response for Racist Cowards app...
Or maybe Dial-a-Lynch?
#prisoncuntry
Too much noise, the neighbours are complaining about all the gunshots.
Paranoid Caucasians living in isolated suburbs.
How very racist of you.
Do you not think that people of color might have reason to be concerned about property theft or break-ins? Do they not deserve some security also?
I guess you'd rather they all be fucked over by a system that is afraid to send patrols where they are and rely on 911 calls that could take 30 minutes or more for a response...
Is there any area that is truly without crime anymore? I truly think every homeowner (and apartment resident!) should have cameras outside the doors, because something can happy anywhere, any time and it's good to have a true record of what occurred. It also eliminates bias from police that do show up in response to an issue, but I guess you don't care about that either...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Bad optics? Does that mean the cop needed new glasses?
You're understating this. The cop committed a crime known as "brandishing a firearm", punishable by up to a year in county hoosegow. Not to say that he'll be prosecuted, but he should be prosecuted in a just world, if only to create enough of a record to justify firing him without pension.
Genius. I mean, once you shoot the home owner there is no one report the crimes and no reported crimes means no crimes. Quick, get some people on the phone!
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
..also, are we really saying that the appropriate sentencing response to theft is death?
You support abortion, right? I do as well.
That means that life is cheap, so why shouldn't someone sho has gone down a bad path simply be eliminated for the good of all? It's a consistent life philosophy. You can still be sad about it, but it's not like most thieves will ever be worth much anyway.
Have gnu, will travel.
Still bodily harm is far less than taking a human life. If there is no indication of possible harm of your life then you should be tried for going overboard of self-protection. (I don't know the exact legal term in english, but that situation carries a far smaller punishment that the full murder). On the other hand, if you use your gun to either scare them and run of, or just injure them, then it is ok.
This was a city thats biggest crime was a McDonalds truck that had lost its brakes and slid backwards into an adjacent sandwich shop, yet everyone on the block was geared up like a K-Town shop owner in the LA riots. It made zero sense...however if you're selling a doorbell that profiles people, ive got just the customer.
You give a charged anecdote and conclude that they really have zero crime there. Is this fact lost on you?
Just kids putting it into diet sodas.
A losing effort.
The city has had at least two controversial shootings in recent years and activists are wholly opposed to anything involving "more police". One shooting involved an African American male who fought white officers and tried to take their gun and was shot and killed. The OTHER shooting happened about 1.5 miles from where I lived and involved an African American (first Somali immigrant police officer) officer who shot an unarmed white woman who had actually initiated the police call.
So it's a total political clusterfuck with the cops in this town. In last year's mayoral election, a major candidate actually suggested disarming the cops. Another major candidate rose to prominence in the precinct occupation/protest which went on for a month or two (in addition to disrupting things like the Park Board meetings, screaming racism and preventing the meeting from taking place). We use ranked choice voting and both candidates polled top 4, so there's that kind of crazy here.
The latter shooting (white woman shot by Somali cop) has everyone spinning in circles. The African American activists and white liberals don't know whether to be outraged or not because while they're trained to be outraged at police shootings, the racial role reversal here has them flummoxed. The pro-police "conservatives" who usually give the cops the benefit of the doubt are annoyed, but are equally flummoxed because a black cop shot a white woman.
The 100% democratic city government just wants it all to go away. The DA had to turn to the Grand Jury (after saying he would no longer use it after the previous shooting) to forcibly extract testimony as all the officers even tangentially involved in the Officer's career and training went blue wall of silence, making it take 8 months to get an indictment. The so-called legal experts are calling the odds of conviction 3-2 against due to the incredible lack of evidence (body cameras -- turned off, no witnesses, etc).
So yeah, run for city council on a "we need more police patrols" platform? Uh, no.
I'm not a fan of police state tactics by any means, but shit, what else can we turn to?
I invite you to try that. Newsflash: what you said isn't true so you won't succeed
Doesn't really confirm anything though... Maybe the kid was a robber... or maybe a highly public news story that a paranoid guy with a gun was stalking and eventually killing anyone he suspects, encouraged a different person who was actually the robber that he needs to move somewhere else to break into places. If every time a teacher comes into class in the morning, he finds a penis drawn on the chalk board, one day the teacher exclaims "I think suzie is doing it... Pulls out a tazer, zaps suzie... she's hospitalized for a week and expelled". 2 months later, no penis's have been drawn on the board. Does that confirm that Suzie did it? Or that tazing a random kid is a good idea?
You obviously don't know much about guns, shooting under pressure, etc.
You NEVER draw a weapon, unless you intend to use it, period.
When you shoot, it isn't like the Lone Ranger where you shoot the gun out of the bad guy's hand, or try to just wing them, you shoot for center mass where you have the best chance, under duress, to hit the criminal to stop them, you shoot until they are stopped.
If someone breaks into my house, I am under the automatic assumption that they are there to do me or my family bodily harm.
I know it is a bit more controversial, but as I mentioned, if you have someone illegally on your property trying to steal from you, you are in many places justified to shoot them. I personally don't have a problem with that, but some do.
Again, if the assailant was not illegally in/on your property committing a crime, they'd be happily on their way and not suffering from gunshot wounds.
It is purely their choice.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
My post as an Anonymous Coward seems to have disappeared after submitting. I can't find it at even "-1".
I'm curious if this one will get through. Feel free to mod this down.
Zimmerman certainly has his issues and he didn't take actions that I would.
This said, you can't assume that someone's logical reasoning or feeling brain mechanisms work while their head is being bashed into the ground. At that point the primal brainstem takes over.
The OTHER shooting happened about 1.5 miles from where I lived and involved an African American (first Somali immigrant police officer) officer who shot an unarmed white woman who had actually initiated the police call.
Was that the one with the Aussie tourist who called to report an assault and the trigger-happy cop shot her as she walked up to the car? The sad thing is, your case is precisely what we need police for: to patrol areas to reduce crime. However the increased militarization of police and the hostile "us vs them" mentality that is being trained into police these days (hell, soldiers in Iraq had a more restrictive ROE regarding firing weapons than police do these days) means an increasing distrust of police, both within the population that is being policed and the population being protected.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Can anyone post images of Zimmermans supposed (fake) injuries? I can't find any for some really bizarre reason. Real mystery there.
Well, I'm in Virginia, not Florida (thank God), and there's no duty to retreat, but you have to be able to convince a jury that you reasonably felt your life was in danger even in your own house. Fortunately that's pretty easy. "Someone kicked in my door in the middle of the night and I thought I saw something in his hand."
I've also heard that it's best to use a plain old revolver for home defense. If the DA holds up your pimped out AR-15 in court, the jury might change their mind on whether it was self defense or not.
I love your knee jerk immediate anecdote (surely is totes real /s) because you think the above poster simply sharing his anecdote was making some sort of racist comment against paranoid suburban white people.
A new doorbell that will call the cops on Black People for being black?
Thatâ(TM)ll take it to the next level.... heâ(TM)ll yeah Murica!
If you're going to add some of the context, you should go ahead and add all of it. Florida has decided it's much more OK to shoot a black person than a white person. just one article of many.
It's a little hard to know whether Zimmerman's account of the event is correct, since Trayvon is no longer alive to speak for himself. There were many eyewitness accounts, and none of them were the same. About the only thing everybody can agree on is that Zimmerman followed an unarmed teenager near said teenager's residence, and following some sort of altercation Zimmerman shot the boy.
I see that the mods are apparently from Breitbart or Daily Caller today, so I welcome the -1, Troll. I've got karma to burn.
The fruity Mentos are great.
Well, stalking someone is. Following someone home could easily be classified as stalking.
I live in a condo complex in which being of any race other than white triggers a call to the police department. A lot of people have very absurd ideas of what is dangerous when they are aged. how many times has a garbage collector been shot for stepping onto the property in every state? The problem is that "what they know" or common sense in their minds is total bull crap. I sometimes have more than one friends that are female living with me. You can not imagine the hatred and lies that spread through a condo community just for that. We have numerous security cams as well as seniors who actually use binoculars and watch all day for whatever is happening around here. And some will even create lies to try to be the best creep in the condo association.
I used to think similarly, and then I realized that not having a problem with that meant that I assumed that the ability to judge of people and ability to assess the intentions of people are not likely to be wrong. If your own teenage kid sneaks out one night and re-enters the house in a manner consistent with that of a burglar, I sincerely hope you pause long enough to not kill them. It's a scenario that has happened more than once.
That aside, I don't think capital punishment is appropriate in cases where there's not an obvious intent by the criminal to harm or kill someone. He has a big wrench and is moving towards you? I might buy that you were in enough jeopardy to justify taking his life.
Life is the first of the inalienable rights that our constitution says we have a right to, and I think I agree with its importance in that document. It's not life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the ability to off some jackass who broke into your shit.
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
I believe that it was Crazy Uncle Joe (Biden) who suggested that you fire your 12-gauge shotgun through the front door in order to handle such "suspicious people"
ok, and was he asked to stop following him before he was assaulted by trayvon? If not, it isnt a crime to walk behind him. you just cant go assault someone for walking behind you and claim stalking. that isnt how it works
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
it could be, if warned to not follow them in the past
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
girlfriend
Hardly. She was a side piece at best, and her testimony was unreliable.
Yes, Justine Dimond shot by Officer Mohammed Noor.
While I think that "warrior" training and militarization have encouraged cops to shoot people, I often wonder if cops shooting so many people is a byproduct of the reduction of blunt force by police.
Cops used to all carry nightsticks, and many also carried saps or wore sap gloves and these were their first go-to weapons for dealing with uncooperative or physically violent people. But over time these weapons fell out of favor, and not necessarily for the wrong reasons, either. So cities, departments, etc, reduced the use of these weapons to the point where they almost couldn't be used at all or could only be used under the same circumstances that a firearm could be used.
So when you're only left with a gun, all your problems now look like targets.
But cops still face a lot of people who fight them or physically resist arrest. A lot of them end up rolling around on the ground wrestling, which is a great way to lose your gun (or gain a reason to use your gun).
I think they should bring back blunt force weapons and train the police how to use them. The down side is that since it doesn't involve death or gunshot wounds, more people will end up getting beat senseless. The up side is that the cops will have a use of force tool that doesn't involve a firearm and killing people.
I know the Taser was supposed to be the ideal combination, but it mostly seems like a lot of bad compromises. Ineffective on some people, limited number of "shots" -- maybe when it's a "ray gun" and not a dart-firing gun with wires attached it will be better.
I know those which you speak of, and what people need to understand is that it is less of a racial problem and more of a militarization of the police. Cops are trained not to see people as citizens to serve and protect, but as the enemy.
Is it a wonder than a sign materialized shortly after the killing of the white woman that read "Warning: Local Cops Easily Startled"?
THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
It sounds great on paper. In reality? Oh this is so gonna be used to profile any brown people who happen to be in the neighborhood. There's no way paranoid Americans will be able to resist the temptation to use a tool like this in some racist or xenophobic way.
Actually, in Florida they decided it was ok to stalk African American teenagers in their own neighborhoods and, if they attempt to channel Stand Your Ground by confronting you, you can go ahead and blow their brains out.
FTFY
Zimmerman was let off because Trayvon attacked him. Nothing more nothing less. It doesn't matter whether he was an asshole or being racist or white unless he did something extreme like attacking Trayvon first. Bringing it up is just trying to distract from the issue. Coulda woulda shoulda...
Just like the way GESTAPO was "alerted" in the 1930s:
1. They storm in.
2. They shoot everyone in the head.
3. They answer to no one. No liability. People have no recourse....
If someone breaks into my house, I am under the automatic assumption that they are there to do me or my family bodily harm.
Despite the fact that are most likely hoping to steal your TV or laptop and not hurt you or your family.
we should shoot someone at random to solve the problem?
No, we shoot the criminals once they are convicted. The ones who have multiple convictions go first.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
[citation needed]
Perhaps if you would stop reading/watching the Fox tabloid you would get real news from a real news organization.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
... nude selfies?
Asking for friend.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Yes of course....sorry, did I stutter the first time?
What do you expect me to do...stop and ask someone who has already committed the crime of breaking into my house...what their intentions are....how bad they plan to be?
Seriously?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
FACT CHECK
The Mayor here in Minneapolis, (the city you've mentioned) as advocated for and continues to advocate for more police.
http://www.startribune.com/1-000-police-officers-sounds-about-right-minneapolis-mayor-and-police-chief-say/475218093/
The city council agrees with adding more police too.
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-city-council-wisely-moves-to-put-more-police-officers-on-the-streets/461936403/
Minneapolis is very, well run city.
Forensics at the trial showed that Martin had straddled Zimmerman, with the latter being on his back, when the shooting occurred. This position is what is colloquially known as a 'ground and pound', with the explicit purpose of limiting the range of motion and ability of someone to defend themself.
This is why 'stand your ground' never even entered into this particular case. Martin had blocked Zimmerman's ability to escape.
On the other hand, if you're a black guy in a neighborhood like that, you might fear for your life if someone was following you with a gun.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Not a bad description of the Justine Diamond case, but you seem to be either making up the story on Philando Castile, or not counting him as a controversial shooting (and I assure you it was)..
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Yes, in a scant 2 years if elected you can talk about fixing an issue with more people who dont care.
They're all suspicious
Police patrols do little to reduce crime. The cause has to be addressed, not the symptom.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
she was on the phone with him at the time lol. if anyone knew what was up it was her
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Yeah, I left that out. Not sure why I blanked on it, it was just about as outrageous as Dimond.
Interestingly, in both Castille and Dimond shootings the officer involved was a minority. I wonder if there's something to that -- minorities who feel they have something to prove to white officers and are more apt to be more violent as a result.
Proper commenting structure for claims that require sources: Crime dropped X % after Y event occurred, on average Z % per month. Prior the event Y crime increased / decreased by X% in total with Z % per month. Sources go here, more detail the the better, note variation in data is normal and expected, if the crime drops the same every month its should be regarded as suspicious. Avoid: Framing such statements as a question, and other rhetorical devices to make your statement seem self-evident and widely accepted.