A Smart Doorbell Company Is Working With Cops To Report 'Suspicious' People, Activities (vice.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Smart doorbell company Ring is making it easier for customers to call the cops on "suspicious" people and activities. The startup, which Amazon acquired for reportedly "more than" $1 billion this year, uses security cameras to let people monitor their entryways. Now, it's launching its Neighbors app -- a platform for reporting crime that, so far, police in Fort Lauderdale and Orlando, and the Ventura Sheriff's Department, have access to. "Over the next days and weeks, law enforcement across the U.S. will be joining Neighbors," a Ring spokesperson told me over email.

The app, while presented as a crime-fighting aid, could also be a new place for paranoid people to profile fellow citizens, as similar platforms in the past have turned out to be. According to the company's statement in a press release for Neighbors today: "In addition to receiving push notifications about potential security issues, app users can see recent crime and safety posts uploaded by their neighbors, the Ring team and local law enforcement via an interactive map. If a neighbor notices suspicious activity in their area, they can post their own text, photo or video and alert the community to proactively prevent crime."

Comments

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Florida it was decided that it was OK to shoot someone much larger than yourself who had you down on the ground and was slamming your head into the concrete. That's not the same thing as just shooting anyone who looks suspicious.

Makes sense

[110010001000]

My local police force has something similar already. You get SMS when there are "issues" in your neighborhood. A website also allows you to view recent crime in the area. You don't need to be paranoid to be vigilant.

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

That is when I get out the Glock 19 and put one in the chamber, 9mm 145 grain hollow points.

Hmm...why don't you always keep one chambered?

Pretty much every gun in my house are loaded to full capacity +1 in the chamber, ready to go when I might need them.

Re:Makes sense

[bagofbeans]

I hope you live alone.

I hope no burglar can find any of your weapons before you can.

I really hope your heavy rounds don't penetrate your walls should you miss.

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

I hope you live alone.

I hope no burglar can find any of your weapons before you can.

I really hope your heavy rounds don't penetrate your walls should you miss.

I have no children living with me, but even if I did, I'd train them to know and respect and LEAVE weapons alone, like my parents did with me.

Kids aren't stupid, they just have to be trained right.

I have a LOT of guns. I have many of them staged within the house, I'm never far away from one, so, got that covered.

Most of the home defense rounds are hollow points and likely should not penetrate the walls. Shotguns are loaded with that in mind too, I"m not throwing slugs out with those in my home defense plans.

Re:Makes sense

[dehachel12]

" have no children living with me", Yes, proved that with : "Kids aren't stupid, they just have to be trained right."

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

"Kids aren't stupid, they just have to be trained right."

Well, it worked for me.

We had a gun in the house, and I was a young child, I think I was likely in about 5th-6th grade when we got it.

My dad showed me how the pistol worked, and let me shoot it, etc.

They also put the fear of God into me if I ever so much as thought about touching it without supervision.

I was a latch key kid...both parents worked, I came home alone most school days and when I was about 13yrs, I would spend summer days home alone.

I was told where the guns was, and I knew it was loaded.

One day when home alone, it was raining. A strange man came up and stayed in our door way, He was asking for a drink of water, I refused behind the locked door. I was frightened....as per my parent's instructions, I was then ok'ed for me to get the gun.

I retrieved it, I chambered a round and held it, till the storm passed, and he finally left.

After I felt safe, I dropped the magazine, un-chambered the round, put the round back in magazine and put magazine back in gun, and replaced it where it was usually hidden.

After I did that,I called my Mom at work and told her what happened, etc.

Are kids more stupid today and can't handle this?

Re:Makes sense

[ganjadude]

well said. I knew where all the guns were in my home when i was 5 - never touched them without dad around because i was trained right.

Re:Makes sense

[ColdWetDog]

Well, you're a fool. Just because your (imaginary) children are responsible Boy Scouts (err, just 'Scouts' now) and learned safe gun handling in the womb doesn't mean their friends are.

One kid. One chambered round. A few seconds. That's all it takes.

If you're THAT paranoid about your person, either up you meds, move or just carry the damned gun with you.

(Says someone with close to a dozen guns locked in a gun cabinet. No kids. Bears and other local miscreants get pepper sprayed.)

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

If you're THAT paranoid about your person, either up you meds, move or just carry the damned gun with you.

Well, who says I don't carry when out in public? CC licenses are easy enough to get.

I don't allow a bunch of kids to run around my house unsupervised.

And a gun that is unloaded or unaccessible is pretty much about the most useless thing in the world.

I hope for your sake a criminal breaking into your house gives you plenty of notice to run to wherever your gun safe is, take out your guns, find the ammo and load them up.

I hope I NEVER ever ever have to draw and use one of my weapons against someone, but better to have them and not need them, than that one time you need them, but don't have them.

Everyones' situation is unique as are their families, and what works best for you, is what you need to plan for and live with.....

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

Running to get a gun because a stranger is at the door?

Seriously?

You don't think a young teen, home alone, with a ragged looking man hanging out on their doorstep, not going away, would be a reason for you to be somewhat concerned or frightened????

Yes, I grabbed that gun, just to be ready in case this person, that was NOT from the neighborhood (we all knew each other) tried to force his way into the house and defend myself.

Wow....I guess you're more trusting than most folks I know, especially THESE days, of home invasions, etc.

Re:Makes sense

[b0s0z0ku]

I wouldn't have a cloud camera if they paid me to. And I certainly wouldn't give a login to the police. Let them go through the proper channels and get a subpoena for any footage, or go fly a kite. I see no reason to make mass surveillance any easier.

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

... as long as nothing changes lots and lots and lots of people are going to be shot.

It is insanely EASY....as long as no one attempts to break into my house/property and steal or do harm to myself of ones I care about, they they will NOT get shot.

If they choose to commit these crimes, then of course they deserve to and will be shot.

I don't see what's so difficult for you to understand.

it is 100% up to them....don't do the crime.

Re:Makes sense

[b0s0z0ku]

Try dealing with a raged-out, roided-out cop who's pointing a gun at you because some idiot neighbor reported you "breaking in" to your own home.

Re:Makes sense

[stealth_finger]

Try dealing with a raged-out, roided-out cop who's pointing a gun at you because some idiot neighbor reported you "breaking in" to your own home.

I actually had something like that once. I'd fallen asleep and woke up to cop in the house because someone had reported someone climbing through a window and my living room window was wide open, but luckily no one here has a gun and the cops less so so after a 5 minute chat everyone was back to business with zero bloodshed.

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

The only think difficult to understand is why America has such a boner for guns, let me ask if you think the current cost in lives for your 'right' to have them a)too much b)too little or c)just right. How many innocent people need to die before you, as a society think, you know what, there might be a middle ground here?

Well, I'm guessing you're not from America, so I'd have to start the answer by, "If I have to explain it to you, you'd not understand."

As for lives lost, well, ONE life lost for most anything, that isn't justified (criminal acts) is too many.

If you take the gun death numbers in the US, and correct them.....say, remove suicides from that number, since well, that is a self induced act, a choice and if you're determined to kill yourself, then you'll find any method to do so.

The number here we're concerned with, is person to person shootings resulting in death. If you drop that number, you'll see the number of gun deaths is about the same as the number of deaths from automobile crashes.

You take that number, and look at I believe it is like 40% or so of those, are gang related deaths....criminals shooting criminals....if guns weren't here, they'd find other ways.

Heck, last I heard, that in London, the crime rate was rivaling New York City...and that they were now considering "sensible knife laws". So, I guess a criminal will find whatever they can use, as that they don't by definition care if it is legal or not.

The VAST majority of gun owners in the US, are law abiding citizens, whose weapons will never be used against another person, nor be used in an illegal manner.

Why then, should we cater to the lowest denominator, a few crazy folks and some criminals....and take away rights the vast majority of people have now?

I very much LOVE having my gun collection. I regularly go out target shooting. I go through quite a bit of ammo monthly. It makes me happy and I enjoy it.

And, unless I do something illegal with them, no one and no entity has need to know what I have.....no more so than they need to know what knives, or lawn mowers I've purchased. Guns like any other things, are merely tools.

Re:Makes sense

[gweihir]

And there we have a dangerous lunatic right there. Enjoying living in fear all the time like some pest critter?

Re: Makes sense

[cayenne8]

What we (as in the rest of the world) don't understand is why are you so scared?

I don't have a gun, but I'm not scared that I can't defend myself because I have no reason to think I have anything to be afraid of?

Gun owners are afraid of the world, but the world doesn't understand why.

Even if I did not have a single of fear someone breaking in, I'd still be a gun owner.

I enjoy them a LOT.

I collect them, like other folks collect coins.

I take them out to the various ranges around, or to friend's places where they have land and we can freely shoot on the range he's built out there, etc.

For the most part, if I think of it, I don't think that I really "Need" a gun(s)....I want them.

Thankfully, in the US it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. I rarely buy something due to need, most of what I buy is because I damned well want and can afford it. Guns are just things like anything else I want.

But you ask why so scared. I wouldn't consider myself scared, but I do observer things that happen in today's world and some of it is troublesome.

Do they not have the concept of home invasions where you live?

They happen here, where 2-4 or so people just break down your door and rob, terrorize, sexually assault and sometimes kill the families that live there.

If that happens to my home, I"d like to be quickly waiting with my weapons, and protect myself and family.

The US isn't a horribly violent place to live in, I feel safe about 99% of the time, but it can and does happen and I'd like to have a fighting chance.

The police are NOT there to protect you from crime. In most US cities, you can order and get a pizza delivered faster than the cops will come on a 911 call.

SO, in case you have a crime happening to you, it is up to YOU to protect yourself.

It's better to have things and never need them, rather than to need them, and not have them.

Lastly, I have a question to you and other people commenting on this from outside the US.

Why in the world do you bother even noticing if we have guns over there and you don't? None of this directly affects your lives in any shape, form or fashion...so, why do you take so much interest in it and offer opinions as to how we manage our internal affairs over here?

Just curious.....

Re:Makes sense

[cayenne8]

And there we have a dangerous lunatic right there. Enjoying living in fear all the time like some pest critter?

I"m not really living in fear at all....quite the opposite.

Are you saying people own guns for no other reason than fear?

Re:Makes sense

[david_thornley]

Running to get a gun because a stranger is at the door?

Seems reasonable to me. If the stranger kicks the door in, it's too late to go get the gun. As long as the kid doesn't actually open fire, I don't see the problem.

Lots of self-defense courses tell people to trust their instincts about when they're in danger. This was the same sort of thing.

Re:Makes sense

[david_thornley]

remove suicides from that number, since well, that is a self induced act, a choice and if you're determined to kill yourself, then you'll find any method to do so.

Except that suicide frequently (perhaps almost always) doesn't work that way. It's usually an impulse decision, and the person involved frequently regrets the situation immediately after the attempt. The more reliable the suicide method is, the more likely that the impulse will succeed.

Remove the availability of guns and suicide rates will probably go down.

Re:Makes sense

[AmiMoJo]

In this country you would call the police. That is the best outcome for everyone.

No need to handle a dangerous tool or potentially face an unknown assailant. No need to sit on fear for who knows how long. And the guy gets picked up and referred to some help if appropriate.

I can appreciate that this won't work in America, because you just don't have the resources and systems in place.

Re:Makes sense

[AmiMoJo]

"if you're determined to kill yourself, then you'll find any method to do so."

This is a very persistent myth, but clinical studies of depression suggest otherwise.

In fact, the main reason that more men commit suicide than women is that men choose more effective, more reliable methods.

The available evidence shows that if you remove effective methods of suicide then the rate goes down.

A good idea, in Florida?

[ausekilis]

A lot of my neighbors have doorbell cameras and will post suspicious stuff to community Facebook groups, occasionally to law enforcement. Lets just hope there are limits put in place. They're security cameras, not public tracking devices.

Re:A good idea, in Florida?

[Martin Blank]

It would be difficult for police to set up a network to do this throughout neighborhoods (cost, potential constitutional issues), but it's perfectly legal for a group of private civilians to collect images of the public, tag it almost however they want (as long as it's opinion-based), and upload it wherever they're allowed. They can label as suspicious a minority in an overwhelmingly white neighborhood, a teen in a beater car, or a child without his or her parents as long as they're stating an opinion about it being suspicious, completely ignoring (or oblivious) that the person recently moved in, the teen lives there and just bought their first car with their own money, or the kid is ten and playing just a couple of doors down from home. Having police respond to these wastes resources and contributes to the further deterioration of neighborhood relations.

Crafting laws to cover this without blocking legitimate reports would be difficult, if not impossible. This can only change through social pressure. If a group like this forms in your neighborhood, it could be helpful to join even if you don't want to if only to talk some sense into those who read too much into perfectly innocent activities.

Re:A good idea, in Florida?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL at "public tracking devices". Oh, the humanity! Try living in the U.K. - we have more CCTV cameras than you can imagine, but also a pathetically short average prison sentence length, meaning criminals get out and commit more crimes against us - the public who have to pay for these worthless parasites (like Trayvon Martin) who live among us.

Re:A good idea, in Florida?

[b0s0z0ku]

If they're "cloud" cameras as opposed to recording to a local hard drive, they're exactly that: public tracking/surveillance devices. Anyone who buys and uses one is either ignorant or evil (not caring about others' privacy is evil).

Re:A good idea, in Florida?

[b0s0z0ku]

I wear the appellation "libtard" proudly. Better than a boot-lickin', stranger-shootin', Jeebus-jumpin' red blooded conservative. YeeeeeHAW!

Neighborhood Watch

[amiga3D]

My daughter's neighborhood had several cars broken into. The neighborhood watch has a facebook group that alerted members. They all polled their surveillance cameras and each found the same van casing their houses throughout the area. They emailed all the pictures to the local Sheriff's department and they caught the van in another area the next night. Cameras are everywhere now and if neighbors unite they have an amazing amount of coverage.

Re:Neighborhood Watch

[Voyager529]

My daughter's neighborhood had several cars broken into...They all polled their surveillance cameras and each found the same van casing their houses throughout the area.

The objection isn't to this sort of thing. Crimes had taken place in the neighborhood, and individuals worked together to submit useful evidence to the police to assist in convicting the criminal(s). This is excellent teamwork, and there is relatively little objection to this sort of scenario.

What's being suggested here, is that Ring is giving police direct access to citizen-owned cameras. Herein lies the problem: my neighbors paying for me to be surveiled, with no crime and no cause, to a police department that, in aggregate, has a bit of a reputation for being less-than-honorable and having limited accountability. That is only comparable to neighborhood watch pooling their DVR footage to provide relevant information to the police to assist in the apprehension of a specific criminal in that it involves digital camera footage and the police.

Re:Neighborhood Watch

[gweihir]

That is because you understand that freedom is far, far more important than security. Unfortunately, that makes you part of a tiny minority. The others will gladly welcome the next fascist catastrophe as long as they get promised "security".

Re:Neighborhood Watch

[amiga3D]

Security that I control is good. Security that controls me is not good.

Re:Neighborhood Watch

[gweihir]

Security that you think you control, but do not, is the worst.

Re:Neighborhood Watch

[amiga3D]

Agreed.

Changing times

[alvinrod]

Are the stereotypical old ladies of the future going to monitor their Neighbors app instead of a police scanner?

Joking aside, I wonder if this will do more to create false perceptions of danger than it will to keep people genuinely informed.

Re:Changing times

[ZorinLynx]

Some women checking out of an AirBNB in California ended up getting a huge police response and detained for a few hours because a neighbor saw them loading their luggage into a car and assumed they were robbing the place.

This shit already happens without a "Neighbors app" and is bound to get worse with one.

Re:Changing times

[Desler]

Of course it will. Pearl-clutching, old, white hags are gonna start calling the cops on any black person they see through their doorbell camera. Walking while black will be the new crime of the day.

Re:Changing times

[kilfarsnar]

Are the stereotypical old ladies of the future going to monitor their Neighbors app instead of a police scanner? Joking aside, I wonder if this will do more to create false perceptions of danger than it will to keep people genuinely informed.

Have you ever read the police log of a small town? People are afraid of their own shadows. Your average person is not qualified to assess what is a threat and what isn't.

Re:Changing times

[Locke2005]

You forgot to mention they were BLACK women checking out of an unlicensed AirBNB, so obviously highly suspicious.

Re:Changing times

[Desler]

Or the three black teens shopping at Nordstrom Rack who clearly had to be shoplifters.

Re:Changing times

[ZorinLynx]

I purposefully didn't mention it because I didn't want this to turn into a political argument. But it's true; had they been white nothing likely would have happened.

Either way, apps like these will just allow for more such casual racism to happen. I don't see it being a good thing in the near-to-medium term.

Re:Changing times

[ColdWetDog]

Nah, in my small town it's just PD picking up people with 'altered mental status', a few trash can maulings by bears and the occasional sea lion snoring. We save shadow jumping for the City Assembly meeting.

Re:Changing times

[Desler]

Being tongue-in-cheek.

Re:Changing times

[stealth_finger]

You forgot to mention they were BLACK women checking out of an unlicensed AirBNB, so obviously highly suspicious.

If it had been white people checking out of an unlicensed AirBnb, you'd have never heard about it. It's probably happened many times and just wasn't news worthy until it was a minority.

Apart from when the police shoot the white woman who called them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Changing times

[jythie]

I was on a couple of 'neighborhood' websites for my area and ended up leaving in disgust at how they handled 'safety'. People kept taking pictures of random teenagers and posting 'warnings' about how 'a black youth was going door to door asking to mow lawns' or 'black youths were playing in the street' or 'black man asked white teenager for directions back to the highway and drove off when I ran out of my house screaming at him'. Even though we live in a VERY safe area, the forums were filled with hysterical threads about how every (white) resident was in constant danger from those dang darkies in their neighborhood.

Re:Changing times

[b0s0z0ku]

It would be fun to troll the shit out of them. Make them feel awful. Pretend to be the black teen they're talking about, say your family just died in a fiery car crash, you were mowing lawns to raise money to give them a proper funeral, and you got harassed by the cops. Maybe start a GoFundMe and donate all proceeds to the NAACP and ACLU.

Re:Changing times

[swb]

Hardship stories already don't work. I've had two people come to my door with sob stories about a stalled car, trying to get to work, need $20 for gas, new to town, taking my kid to the hospital, etc etc.

I fell for it once 25 years ago when the dude walked into my video store looking for $2 bus fare. When he came in with the same fucking story two weeks later (he must tell it so often he forgets his audience) I knew I had been scammed and threw his ass out.

I told the last two they had 60 seconds to get out off my property and take their panhandling bullshit elsewhere.

Re:Changing times

[gweihir]

Have you ever read the police log of a small town? People are afraid of their own shadows. Your average person is not qualified to assess what is a threat and what isn't.

Indeed. And if that is not getting under control, these fear-determined morons will mess everything up for everybody.

Re:Changing times

[gweihir]

And that is just it. These people are deep into irrational fear. They are a massive danger, the things they are afraid off are not.

Re:Changing times

[q_e_t]

Are the stereotypical old ladies of the future going to monitor their Neighbors app instead of a police scanner?

The popular Australian soap opera has an app now?

Re:Changing times

[david_thornley]

She was from Australia, and apparently wasn't aware that you have to be afraid of US police.

Re:Changing times

[david_thornley]

I'd rather get taken advantage of now and then than not help people, personally. My choice.

Network security

[John.Banister]

I hope paranoia social network is equally paranoid about their networks security, because the paranoid are always such fun to hack.

Skybell is better

[sremick]

It's unfortunate that Ring gets all the press, as Skybell is such a better product.

Wider working temperature range (rather important for us in the deep Northeast), and no charge for cloud access to a week's worth of videos. We've been loving ours... integrated just fine into SmartThings.

It's like Norton/McAfee.... the lesser product in the class gets all the name recognition, while better alternatives go around relatively unknown.

Re: In Florida? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they give you the right to shoot someone who is actively threatening you.

Think implies that a mental ward escapee who see everyone as the devil incarnate gets a free pass. Which is not true. But liberals wish it was because then they wouldn't have me posting this proving liberals are liars.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the break-ins in that neighborhood stopped after that teenager was killed, right?

Re:In Florida? Really?

[damn_registrars]

You know that correlation is not causation, right?

Welcome to the future

[MancunianMaskMan]

I, for one, welcome our new fully-automated robotic curtain-twitching overlords.

Re: In Florida? Really?

[Type44Q]

Kill yourself, troll - slowly, if you please.

Re:American Freedom

[AHuxley]

In the UK the CCTV networks got networked around every city to track the IRA into and out of cities. Every face, every number plate.
Think of the US version of more a public private partnership. With the FBI, DEA, NSA, CIA buying into a bulk commercial product that has every face and license plate in a state.

In the UK you know your face is going to be tracked.
In the USA your never really sure what agency is actually tasked to collect domestically*.
*Unless its a new camera in a new box on a very old utility pole.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[drakaan]

...also, are we really saying that the appropriate sentencing response to theft is death? I'm not on board with that. That's how you get people you are pretty sure stole something, but who didn't steal something, killed.

this seems like it only has one market.

[nimbius]

Paranoid Caucasians living in isolated suburbs. Now im sure this will get downvoted to oblivion, but unless and until you've lived with these people you've no clue just how willing a specific segment of the American population is to buy just one more thing to "keep their family safe."

I moved back into my parents old home in an Ohio suburb temporarily after they died in order to auction off the estate and sell the property. Granted this was in 2010 so the economy was about as stable a foundation as the Los Angles I had lived the bulk of my adult life in, but I was prepared for a long sale anyhow. In the first two weeks I lived there I got 3 neighbors banging on my door announcing themselves and nearly demanding to know who i was, who my wife was, what school my kids went to, and how many cars I owned. I was left politely at some point with a cake from Wal-Mart and a suggested church. At the end of the month I received a phone call from the local police department reporting a burglar had entered the home and had been detained after claiming to be my husband. After confirming he was indeed my husband with police, who seemed stunned to see actual gay people, life settled back down to normal with the exception of the now monthly 'jesus saves' fliers that would arrive unsolicited on my car windshield from neighbourhood kids.

A month passes and we're both playing Borderlands in the living room when we notice a handful of police walking alongside the house to the back yard. The neighbours who were standing proudly in our driveway, had called the police on our utility meter reader, who was black. After enduring a half hour with the neighbours explaining everything from make-believe methamphetamine addicts to the second amendment and gun ownership, they left.

long story short, we finally sold the property and moved back to LA, but the obsession with night prowlers, evil lurking in the shadows, drug addicts, and the paranoid gun culture was pretty shocking. This was a city thats biggest crime was a McDonalds truck that had lost its brakes and slid backwards into an adjacent sandwich shop, yet everyone on the block was geared up like a K-Town shop owner in the LA riots. It made zero sense...however if you're selling a doorbell that profiles people, ive got just the customer.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Anonymous Coward]

While some of what you experienced is over-the-top, neighbors being diligent about their safety and being informed regarding activities in their community does make a difference. Keeping crime low takes an organized effort. It doesn't happen by itself.

To put it another way, in many communities one can walk alone at 3 am and have virtually zero worry of being a victim of crime. Can one do that on a *consistent* basis anywhere in LA? Presumably not. Before responding that in some areas of LA one can walk alone at 3 am, ask yourself why that is. Gated community? Wealthier area? Private security?

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Type44Q]

...Caucasians

And wealthy blacks, too. Oh, not that many of them?? Fine; it still doesn't have a fucking thing to do with skin color, shitstain.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[jittles]

While some of what you experienced is over-the-top, neighbors being diligent about their safety and being informed regarding activities in their community does make a difference. Keeping crime low takes an organized effort. It doesn't happen by itself.

To put it another way, in many communities one can walk alone at 3 am and have virtually zero worry of being a victim of crime. Can one do that on a *consistent* basis anywhere in LA? Presumably not. Before responding that in some areas of LA one can walk alone at 3 am, ask yourself why that is. Gated community? Wealthier area? Private security?

I live in a community that actually probably has a higher crime rate than LA. I live in a very urban area and I walk around alone at 3am all the time and never even get hassled by the homeless people. During the day? The homeless people all hassle the hell out of you, but they’re very docile and polite at night. And no, no gates in my neighborhood, no private security, none of that. There certainly is crime in my neighborhood, but it usually consists of car burglaries. And no, I don’t walk around with a gun or anything else to defend myself. And how do I know when something suspicious is going on? Well, I happen to know my neighbors, at least by sight. Did I interrogate them when I moved in, or they moved in? No. I just pay attention when I am out and about. I know the homeless people who live in my neighborhood, and I know when someone is a new transient to the area. The usual homeless people all know me, and every once and a while I’ll buy one of them lunch or dinner. And I feel perfectly safe because I know what is normal in my neighborhood without being a complete asshole about it.

Oh and it has nothing to do with police activity, either. I rarely see a cop in my area after 10pmish unless it’s a Friday or Saturday night. They’re usually busier on the more suburban part of towns, both the wealthier part and the poorer part. The people in my neighborhood are, admittedly mostly middle class, but the area has a lot of amenities and activities that draw people in from other parts of the city and even from other nearby states.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[cascadingstylesheet]

but the obsession with night prowlers, evil lurking in the shadows, drug addicts, and the paranoid gun culture was pretty shocking. This was a city thats biggest crime was a McDonalds truck that had lost its brakes and slid backwards into an adjacent sandwich shop, yet everyone on the block was geared up like a K-Town shop owner in the LA riots. It made zero sense...however if you're selling a doorbell that profiles people, ive got just the customer.

So, just to play devil's advocate, people who keep a sharp eye out for anything weird bafflingly (to you) have extremely low crime.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Anonymous Coward]

An African-American daughter? Really? Dude, she's black, just say she's black. It's not offensive and it doesn't sound like some weird, forced, overly-formal PC bullshit.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Jon Howard]

Seriously. Racism has far too much popular support lately, coming almost exclusively from those who claim they're defending against it. Drop this theme people, the emphasis is making it worse, not better. Didn't your parents explain about how believing in monsters is what makes them real?

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[froggyjojodaddy]

Oh man, I think there's a huge difference between the 'neighborhood watch' type folks keeping a 'sharp eye' out and those who are actively finding criminals lurking among them. The former is fantastic, you want more of that but the latter is based on ignorance and fear

I'm brown skinned and moved into a rural place last year. Way out of the city and predominantly Caucasian and old. Think farmers and retirees. Neighborhood is affluent. The town is extremely small - if you're doing 80 km/h down the closest highway, you'll drive past the entire town in less than 40 seconds.

I don't really have neighbors as such - the nearest house is maybe a kilometer away and there's nothing but open land and forest between us so we don't really see anyone. Each evening, I sit outside on the patio and enjoy a nice fire and wind down - don't see anyone, don't hear anything other than wildlife. Sometimes, if I'm playing the with kids and running around the lawn, I'll notice some car is parked at the end of our driveway (200ft driveway) with someone in it. Sometimes the same car, sometimes a different one. I just put it down to someone who maybe took a wrong turn and is figuring out their GPS.

Every Sunday evening, I wheel our garbage and recycling to the end of the driveway but very rarely see cars driving down our road. A month ago, I'm dragging the recycling bins to the end of the driveway and a white Acura SUV slows down on the approach. I've seen this car before parked up and figure it's a neighbor or something. Car rolls to a stop, drive rolls down the window and this is the conversation:
Me: "Hi"
Him: "You live here?"
Me: "Moved in earlier this year"
Him: "Oh.."
*silence for maybe 10 seconds*
Me: "Yep... moved in, really like the area. Very quiet, great scenery and love the apple farm"
Him: *silence as he's trying to look past me*
Me: "Yep...wife and kids love it. Lot's of room for the girls to run around. They got too much energy"
Him: "You can afford this place?"
Me: "Uh... yes..."
Him: "What do you do for a living?"
Me: "Uh..I work in tech. What do you do? Retired? Enjoying the good life?" (I'm desperately trying to bring the conversation back to a good place and failing miserably)
Him: "Never mind about me. I've seen you around the house, we've had a lot of burglaries around here" (I'm assuming he meant he's seen my around my own house, not his house. I have no idea where he lives and I've not been to anyone else' house)
Me: "Well, OK - have a good evening"

Turn around and walk back down the driveway. Hear him drive off. Run through a couple of scenario's in my head as to how I should have responded. None of which were polite.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[stephanruby]

This works both ways.

If you're black, having one of those on your porch could help you when you're being harassed by neighbors or by the police.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Jon Howard]

You may have missed the point. I was referring to, you know, literal monsters. Like under your bed. Or in your closet. Everyone knows bad people exist. The parallel I was working to draw was that using their language is feeding their narrative, which increases their influence. I may not have expressed my though clearly enough, but I hope this helps clarify.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[b0s0z0ku]

Historically, the law made you "Black" and subject to things like segregation on trains and in restaurants if you either:
(1) had any Black ancestors or
(2) were one-eighth (had one great-grandparent who was) Black

Does it make sense? Hell no. But that's American tradition.

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Locke2005]

No, she's one of the few people that really is African-American; her mother is from Sierra Leone, and her father is a redneck (me).

Re:this seems like it only has one market.

[Locke2005]

Which is strange, since I had a tiny pasty white blond girl friend once who claimed she had a great-grandmother that was a slave; making her fit the definition of "black".

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Nidi62]

You know the break-ins in that neighborhood stopped after that teenager was killed, right?

If you were a thief, would you want to break into houses in a neighborhood where they kill people just walking down the street? I'd stay away from that neighborhood too!

Re:In Florida? Really?

[kilfarsnar]

You know the break-ins in that neighborhood stopped after that teenager was killed, right?

Citation sorely needed. Really, Trayvon Martin was responsible for all of the break-ins in that neighborhood, such that after his death burglary ceased to be a thing that happens there? Somehow, I'm skeptical.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Locke2005]

Do stand your ground laws give you the right to shoot the off duty cop behind you who pulls a gun on you because he thinks you're stealing Mentos? (Asking for a friend,)

Re:I will never own a Ring...

[Desler]

Any monetized security sounds suspicious to me. Being owned by Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, or any of the other tech giants certainly doesn't help your cause in my book.

Because being a small tech company makes you more ethical? lolwut? Facebook was a shitty company long before it became a tech giant.

If I'm forced to share my data with you then I'm not playing. There are plenty of cheap-Chinese-plastic-crap options that allow you keep your data private and some of them are actually getting better at basic IoT security.

Now you’re definitely trolling.

Re: In Florida? Really?

[Locke2005]

In Cali, you can get a restraining order against people solely on the basis of saying you're afraid of them... even if you have a history of hospitalization for paranoia. Take a while to let that sink in.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Locke2005]

So whenever there is a crime, we should shoot someone at random to solve the problem? Brilliant!

Re:American Freedom

[Desler]

Except for when you don’t because the data extraction and monitoring is done surreptiously?

Smart move by Amazon

[captbollocks]

because when they automate everything, they can sack all those minimum wage drones and then stop them breaking into rich people's homes because that is the only way left to feed themselves/family.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[cayenne8]

..also, are we really saying that the appropriate sentencing response to theft is death?

Depends on the state laws, etc....

A few years back, here in LA, there was a case where a guy came out on the balcony of his 2nd story apartment, and saw just below in the parking lot, 2 thieves in his car rummaging around stealing stuff.

He pulled out his gun and opened fire, killing one and wounding the other I believe, that ran off.

They actually tried to try him, but no jury would convict him.

I was actually surprised it went to trial at all, as that here in LA, the car is considered and extension of your home.

In TX, I believe you can freely open fire if you find someone on your property stealing stuff.

Frankly, I have no problem with that....if they'd not been committing the crime on property they didn't now own, they'd be happily alive and processing oxygen.

If I'm home and someone breaks in to my house, I assume 100%, that the person means bodily harm to myself, family/friends within and I won't even be checking the body till I'm loading my 3rd magazine generally.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Joce640k]

If you have off-duty cops who pull guns on people for suspicion of stealing Mentos then they deserve shooting, yes.

(And does your friend think that pointing guns at people is a friendly gesture?)

Re:In Florida? Really?

[damn_registrars]

, his death solved the problem that neighborhood had.

You can't study a neighborhood in a vacuum. Can you support the notion that absolutely nothing else in that neighborhood changed? Nobody moved out, nobody changed jobs, police presence didn't change, taxes didn't change? Many things changed at the same time that had nothing to do with the senseless murder of a teenager. You cannot support the notion that his death somehow magically changed the neighborhood into Utopia.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

>he thinks it was a senseless murder!
Martin was killed by Zimmerman because Martin was assaulting him. Zimmerman showed in court he feared for his life and the use of deadly force was justified. It was not murder. It was not even manslaughter. I invite you to have someone slam your head against concrete and tell me with a straight face you wouldn't be afraid for your life. Zimmerman shooting Martin to stop the attack is actually the most reasonable course of action in that circumstance.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[moehoward]

That guy with the Mentos had paid for them. This was not good behavior for the off-duty cop who pulled the gun. Very bad optics, and scared the crap out of that guy.

So the question really is... Who in the heck buys Mentos anymore?

I have one of these cameras...

[cwatts]

I have one of these cameras and so far it's recorded a couple knock-knock thieves, my BMW M3 getting stolen (yanked onto a flatbed and gone in under 60 seconds) and also captured the boyfriend of a girl I know making out with another girl while they were alone on my porch.

It's also exposed my ring-using neighbors as a (virtually) huddled bunch of paranoid slut shaming racists who aren't aware of due process, or even innocent until proven guilty.

It really is disgusting.

I'm getting rid of my Ring, mostly because it's too unreliable. It often just stops working and doesnt respond to anything for days (i did everything tech support asked and more) It's not a bad idea, the ring thing (and its been around for at least a year so this is not really news) I will miss being about to see whos at the door but i won't miss hearing my neighbors whine about ever pedestrian that passes theie houses.

Paranoid?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're only paranoid if the fears are unfounded. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but crime statistics speak for themselves.

Studies have examined if ethnic/racially heterogeneous areas, most often neighborhoods in large cities, have higher crime rates than more homogeneous areas. Most studies find that the more ethnically/racially heterogeneous an area is, the higher its crime rates tend to be.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[ganjadude]

man we really have short memories, either that or you are flat out lying. which is it?

I was out of work at that time so I watched the entire trial. Trayvons girlfriend told the court under oath that trayvon was home, then told her he was going back out to confront "that cracker"
BR so in short, trayvon instigated the issue, as walking behind someone isnt a crime, and trayvon was also racist.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[ganjadude]

trayvon made the first contact not the other way around, per trayvons girlfriend under oath. last i checked, walking behind someone isnt a crime

Re:I am sure this can't possible backfire in anywa

[supremebob]

Yeah...

In related news: SMS reports of incidents of "person of color hanging out in a wealthy area" have spiked 500%. News at 11.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[MBGMorden]

You're conflating "Stand Your Ground" with "Castle Doctrine".

Stand Your Ground applies anywhere - not just your home. In states without Stand Your Ground even if you feel your life is in danger, you have whats referred to as a "Duty to retreat". IE, run away if you can. Stand Your Ground states that you have no duty to retreat and if your life is in danger then you can respond with deadly force.

Castle Doctrine applies in your home, and it not only means that you have no duty to retreat, but also that the mere presence of an intruder in your home is by default considered a threat to your life, and so you can use deadly force immediately. IE, if you come downstairs and there's a stranger standing in your living room you're clear to shoot - even if they have said or done nothing else. Their mere presence is considered a threat.

Castle Doctrine does have it's limits though. It's not applicable cases where home owners have "baited" criminals into the home, or where the criminal has already surrendered then the threat is considered ended (ie, you can't tie up an intruder and then shoot them, nor can you leave your door open with a stack of cash visible while you wait in the corner with a gun).

Re:In Florida? Really?

[ganjadude]

the citation is his girlfriends testimony where she stated in court that he went home, and told her he was going back out to confront "that cracker"

he was a racist, and he picked a fight with the wrong buy. zimmerman is a dbag, but so was trayvon

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Nidi62]

>he thinks it was a senseless murder! Martin was killed by Zimmerman because Martin was assaulting him. Zimmerman showed in court he feared for his life and the use of deadly force was justified. It was not murder. It was not even manslaughter.

Zimmerman broke the first rule of self defense that they teach in gun safety course: don't put yourself into situations where you are not safe. He could have remained in his vehicle to follow Martin or, as advised by the 911 operator, not followed him at all. His reckless actions started him down a course that ended with him being in a position where he felt he needed to fire his weapon. And I would say that the fact that he keeps getting in trouble for threatening people and waving his gun around demonstrates that he probably isn't competent enough to continue owning firearms.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[stealth_finger]

So to stop break ins just execute a random person in each neighbourhood? Got it.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[stealth_finger]

Well no. Some one who has drowned or been shot has very clear reasons for death that can be fully explained. What can't be explained is why as the global temperature has risen the total number of pirates has declined but it's clear we need more pirates to stabilise the temperature.

Why? Just have china report it.

[WindBourne]

Seriously, ring continues to send the data to China. Not impressed.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[stealth_finger]

>arguing against evidence entered into the public record in a court of law and conflating two separate events. I am flabbergasted you think assault is a reasonable course of action when someone is following you. Here's a thought: why didn't Martin just, oh I don't know, walk away? Why did he escalate the situation?

Wait, so its ok for one party to escalate the violence but not the other? Zimmerman was justified in his shooting because he was afraid but Martin should've just walked away?

It's paranoia when they're really victimizing you?

[swb]

I've lived in large single family home residential neighborhood in a city (looks suburban, but is in the city) for 19 years and over the past 5+ years, the amount of nuisance theft has skyrocketed. Just on my *block* it's not unusual to hear about a car being rifled, strange "door to door" sales people with no materials/identification/logos. We had a rash of car entries using keyless entry repeaters and a couple of sneak burglaries (snatching purses from kitchen tables). Over a week last November, the entire larger neighborhood was hit by package thieves, including my house. 3 different people had footage of the car involved.

I had a long conversation with my council member about what can be done and was told that we should just report it and then do insurance or whatever. I asked why we couldn't get more police patrols and was told our area was "too low crime" (the numbers say we're the lowest crime area in the city) and there wasn't sufficient resources.

So what the fuck? Just put up with it? That's the answer? Or just change my thinking, it *must* be my racial bias?

Or this is somehow really ad-hoc redistributive economic justice, and I'm just too racist to notice?

Re:In Florida? Really?

[stealth_finger]

If I were breaking into homes in an area and then some vigilante started killing people that he found suspicious, I think I might stop breaking into homes around there, too.

Maybe until they do something about the guy shooting everyone he didn't like the look of.

Spoken like a PC jackass

[DeplorableCodeMonkey]

Paranoid Caucasians living in isolated suburbs.

You clearly have little exposure to Indians and Asians because if you did, you'd see a huge potential market there. In fact, I could see UMC blacks that I've known be even more open about who they're targeting with it.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[houghi]

The best thing you do is shoot the owner of the doorbell. You will notice that there will be a serious decline in the number of crimes that need to be solved as well the fact that those people will see a serious decrease in repeat crimes.
That can only mean one thing: It works because the guilty person is punished.

We could even go one step further and shoot those people who own said doorbell and prevent a LOT of crime.

Re:American Freedom

[stealth_finger]

I love it how Americans ridiculed the UK for the high amount of CCTV Cameras and surveillance. Yet When Americans do it to themselves , and hand over their "sovereignty" and "rights" to a company, not a government entity, it's "Freedom"

And everytime a kid goes missing or we need to figure out what happened last night we're glad they're there.

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[Nidi62]

I had a long conversation with my council member about what can be done and was told that we should just report it and then do insurance or whatever. I asked why we couldn't get more police patrols and was told our area was "too low crime" (the numbers say we're the lowest crime area in the city) and there wasn't sufficient resources.

So what the fuck? Just put up with it? That's the answer? Or just change my thinking, it *must* be my racial bias?

Or this is somehow really ad-hoc redistributive economic justice, and I'm just too racist to notice?

So how about you, or someone in your neighborhood, run for city council and push for increased police patrols?

or, report suspicious activity by minorities

[jsepeta]

Cops who were called to stop a robbery in progress had never heard of AirBnB and attempted to arrest 3 black women this week.

scare quotes

[cascadingstylesheet]

I love the scare quotes around "suspicious", like that's just some crazy impossible concept.

Re:scare quotes

[AmiMoJo]

Problem is that it's subjective.

Have you seen that video of two guys trying to break into a car? The white guy goes first, people assume he locked himself out and just walk by. When the black guy tries another time a cop appears and pulls a gun on him.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[drinkypoo]

last i checked, walking behind someone isnt a crime

Willfully following someone who doesn't want you to do so is harassment. Even in Florida, even "following" someone on social media is illegal (cyberstalking) if it's intended to cause emotional distress.

Just be honest...

[b0s0z0ku]

Call it the Armed Response for Racist Cowards app...

Or maybe Dial-a-Lynch?

Or you could not be racist

[SuperKendall]

Paranoid Caucasians living in isolated suburbs.

How very racist of you.

Do you not think that people of color might have reason to be concerned about property theft or break-ins? Do they not deserve some security also?

I guess you'd rather they all be fucked over by a system that is afraid to send patrols where they are and rely on 911 calls that could take 30 minutes or more for a response...

Is there any area that is truly without crime anymore? I truly think every homeowner (and apartment resident!) should have cameras outside the doors, because something can happy anywhere, any time and it's good to have a true record of what occurred. It also eliminates bias from police that do show up in response to an issue, but I guess you don't care about that either...

Re:Or you could not be racist

[SuperKendall]

So what, pointing out a pretty common observation is now racist?

That wouldn't be, instead you blatantly stated the equivalent to "only rich paranoid crackers care", the fact that you think this "observation" (vs. being actually OPINION) is in any way common just highlights what a racist piece of shit you really are.

I didn't even read the rest of your post because while racists are allowed to say what they like, I certainly don't have to read anything from anyone who judges people based on skin color. It's inside that matters man...

I'll let you have the last word since racists do like to ramble on to prove whatever crazy thing they think others want to hear.

Re:Or you could not be racist

[jittles]

So what, pointing out a pretty common observation is now racist?

That wouldn't be, instead you blatantly stated the equivalent to "only rich paranoid crackers care", the fact that you think this "observation" (vs. being actually OPINION) is in any way common just highlights what a racist piece of shit you really are.

I didn't even read the rest of your post because while racists are allowed to say what they like, I certainly don't have to read anything from anyone who judges people based on skin color. It's inside that matters man...

I'll let you have the last word since racists do like to ramble on to prove whatever crazy thing they think others want to hear.

First of all, the GP is not me. Secondly, it's generally true. Like all stereotypes. Did I say that all white rich people are paranoid? Or that people of other races are not paranoid? No. But it's the white paranoid people that call the police because they see someone of another race. I'd like to see evidence of a case where this is not true, if you have one. But instead of admitting that people can generally act like racist assholes, you're saying that I am racist against white people?

Re:Or you could not be racist

[AmiMoJo]

China is like that. Cameras everywhere, government and privately owned.

It doesn't really help, at least not in terms of deterring crime. At best it displaces it sometimes. Cops have to take bribes in private etc.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[b0s0z0ku]

You're understating this. The cop committed a crime known as "brandishing a firearm", punishable by up to a year in county hoosegow. Not to say that he'll be prosecuted, but he should be prosecuted in a just world, if only to create enough of a record to justify firing him without pension.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[stealth_finger]

Genius. I mean, once you shoot the home owner there is no one report the crimes and no reported crimes means no crimes. Quick, get some people on the phone!

Another example ...

[PPH]

... of technology putting people out of work. In my day, we would have had George Zimmerman patrolling our neighborhood for suspicious activity. On the other hand, Ring doorbells don't shoot. Yet.

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[swb]

A losing effort.

The city has had at least two controversial shootings in recent years and activists are wholly opposed to anything involving "more police". One shooting involved an African American male who fought white officers and tried to take their gun and was shot and killed. The OTHER shooting happened about 1.5 miles from where I lived and involved an African American (first Somali immigrant police officer) officer who shot an unarmed white woman who had actually initiated the police call.

So it's a total political clusterfuck with the cops in this town. In last year's mayoral election, a major candidate actually suggested disarming the cops. Another major candidate rose to prominence in the precinct occupation/protest which went on for a month or two (in addition to disrupting things like the Park Board meetings, screaming racism and preventing the meeting from taking place). We use ranked choice voting and both candidates polled top 4, so there's that kind of crazy here.

The latter shooting (white woman shot by Somali cop) has everyone spinning in circles. The African American activists and white liberals don't know whether to be outraged or not because while they're trained to be outraged at police shootings, the racial role reversal here has them flummoxed. The pro-police "conservatives" who usually give the cops the benefit of the doubt are annoyed, but are equally flummoxed because a black cop shot a white woman.

The 100% democratic city government just wants it all to go away. The DA had to turn to the Grand Jury (after saying he would no longer use it after the previous shooting) to forcibly extract testimony as all the officers even tangentially involved in the Officer's career and training went blue wall of silence, making it take 8 months to get an indictment. The so-called legal experts are calling the odds of conviction 3-2 against due to the incredible lack of evidence (body cameras -- turned off, no witnesses, etc).

So yeah, run for city council on a "we need more police patrols" platform? Uh, no.

I'm not a fan of police state tactics by any means, but shit, what else can we turn to?

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Riceballsan]

Doesn't really confirm anything though... Maybe the kid was a robber... or maybe a highly public news story that a paranoid guy with a gun was stalking and eventually killing anyone he suspects, encouraged a different person who was actually the robber that he needs to move somewhere else to break into places. If every time a teacher comes into class in the morning, he finds a penis drawn on the chalk board, one day the teacher exclaims "I think suzie is doing it... Pulls out a tazer, zaps suzie... she's hospitalized for a week and expelled". 2 months later, no penis's have been drawn on the board. Does that confirm that Suzie did it? Or that tazing a random kid is a good idea?

Re:In Florida? Really?

[cayenne8]

Still bodily harm is far less than taking a human life. If there is no indication of possible harm of your life then you should be tried for going overboard of self-protection. (I don't know the exact legal term in english, but that situation carries a far smaller punishment that the full murder). On the other hand, if you use your gun to either scare them and run of, or just injure them, then it is ok.

You obviously don't know much about guns, shooting under pressure, etc.

You NEVER draw a weapon, unless you intend to use it, period.

When you shoot, it isn't like the Lone Ranger where you shoot the gun out of the bad guy's hand, or try to just wing them, you shoot for center mass where you have the best chance, under duress, to hit the criminal to stop them, you shoot until they are stopped.

If someone breaks into my house, I am under the automatic assumption that they are there to do me or my family bodily harm.

I know it is a bit more controversial, but as I mentioned, if you have someone illegally on your property trying to steal from you, you are in many places justified to shoot them. I personally don't have a problem with that, but some do.

Again, if the assailant was not illegally in/on your property committing a crime, they'd be happily on their way and not suffering from gunshot wounds.

It is purely their choice.

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[Nidi62]

The OTHER shooting happened about 1.5 miles from where I lived and involved an African American (first Somali immigrant police officer) officer who shot an unarmed white woman who had actually initiated the police call.

Was that the one with the Aussie tourist who called to report an assault and the trigger-happy cop shot her as she walked up to the car? The sad thing is, your case is precisely what we need police for: to patrol areas to reduce crime. However the increased militarization of police and the hostile "us vs them" mentality that is being trained into police these days (hell, soldiers in Iraq had a more restrictive ROE regarding firing weapons than police do these days) means an increasing distrust of police, both within the population that is being policed and the population being protected.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[sexconker]

The fruity Mentos are great.

Dangerous Idea

[JimSadler]

I live in a condo complex in which being of any race other than white triggers a call to the police department. A lot of people have very absurd ideas of what is dangerous when they are aged. how many times has a garbage collector been shot for stepping onto the property in every state? The problem is that "what they know" or common sense in their minds is total bull crap. I sometimes have more than one friends that are female living with me. You can not imagine the hatred and lies that spread through a condo community just for that. We have numerous security cams as well as seniors who actually use binoculars and watch all day for whatever is happening around here. And some will even create lies to try to be the best creep in the condo association.

Re:Dangerous Idea

[CanHasDIY]

I've lived in neighborhoods where being white (or worse, female and white) triggered physical assault and death threats.

I currently live in a neighborhood that's 99% white, and in 9 years the cops have never been called to my home when a black friend came by, nor do I ever see them at the home of the elderly black gent down the street. Conversely, until about a month ago the police were called to another house on the block almost daily for domestic disturbances - white lady and her apparently multiple different black boyfriends. Neighbors of all colors were happy to see that shitshow get evicted.

Point being, assholes are everywhere, not everything has to do with race, and even when it does it's not always white folks being the bad actors.

Re:Why not?

[drakaan]

That's an incredibly obtuse response. It starts with an assumption, goes on to make a proposition that has has many good counter-arguments, makes an assertion that is questionable, and finishes with some quasi-intellectual statement about the relative worth of human lives. Worse yet, you posted AC just so nobody knows that it's *you* that thinks those things. I wonder why...

Re:In Florida? Really?

[drakaan]

I used to think similarly, and then I realized that not having a problem with that meant that I assumed that the ability to judge of people and ability to assess the intentions of people are not likely to be wrong. If your own teenage kid sneaks out one night and re-enters the house in a manner consistent with that of a burglar, I sincerely hope you pause long enough to not kill them. It's a scenario that has happened more than once.

That aside, I don't think capital punishment is appropriate in cases where there's not an obvious intent by the criminal to harm or kill someone. He has a big wrench and is moving towards you? I might buy that you were in enough jeopardy to justify taking his life.

Life is the first of the inalienable rights that our constitution says we have a right to, and I think I agree with its importance in that document. It's not life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the ability to off some jackass who broke into your shit.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[ganjadude]

ok, and was he asked to stop following him before he was assaulted by trayvon? If not, it isnt a crime to walk behind him. you just cant go assault someone for walking behind you and claim stalking. that isnt how it works

Re:In Florida? Really?

[ganjadude]

it could be, if warned to not follow them in the past

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[swb]

Yes, Justine Dimond shot by Officer Mohammed Noor.

While I think that "warrior" training and militarization have encouraged cops to shoot people, I often wonder if cops shooting so many people is a byproduct of the reduction of blunt force by police.

Cops used to all carry nightsticks, and many also carried saps or wore sap gloves and these were their first go-to weapons for dealing with uncooperative or physically violent people. But over time these weapons fell out of favor, and not necessarily for the wrong reasons, either. So cities, departments, etc, reduced the use of these weapons to the point where they almost couldn't be used at all or could only be used under the same circumstances that a firearm could be used.

So when you're only left with a gun, all your problems now look like targets.

But cops still face a lot of people who fight them or physically resist arrest. A lot of them end up rolling around on the ground wrestling, which is a great way to lose your gun (or gain a reason to use your gun).

I think they should bring back blunt force weapons and train the police how to use them. The down side is that since it doesn't involve death or gunshot wounds, more people will end up getting beat senseless. The up side is that the cops will have a use of force tool that doesn't involve a firearm and killing people.

I know the Taser was supposed to be the ideal combination, but it mostly seems like a lot of bad compromises. Ineffective on some people, limited number of "shots" -- maybe when it's a "ray gun" and not a dart-firing gun with wires attached it will be better.

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[cmdr_klarg]

I know those which you speak of, and what people need to understand is that it is less of a racial problem and more of a militarization of the police. Cops are trained not to see people as citizens to serve and protect, but as the enemy.

Is it a wonder than a sign materialized shortly after the killing of the white woman that read "Warning: Local Cops Easily Startled"?

Re:American Freedom

[gweihir]

Yes, because you are stupid and have no appreciation for the value of freedom. In essence, you are giving it away for nothing. It is people like you that threaten society.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[Jarwulf]

Zimmerman was let off because Trayvon attacked him. Nothing more nothing less. It doesn't matter whether he was an asshole or being racist or white unless he did something extreme like attacking Trayvon first. Bringing it up is just trying to distract from the issue. Coulda woulda shoulda...

Re:In Florida? Really?

[smooth wombat]

we should shoot someone at random to solve the problem?

No, we shoot the criminals once they are convicted. The ones who have multiple convictions go first.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[smooth wombat]

[citation needed]

Perhaps if you would stop reading/watching the Fox tabloid you would get real news from a real news organization.

Re:Black People

[MoaDweeb]

My thoughts as well. But for an extra $99 you can get an upgrade that shoots them automatically.

Can we post ...

[CaptainDork]

... nude selfies?

Asking for friend.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[cayenne8]

If someone breaks into my house, I am under the automatic assumption that they are there to do me or my family bodily harm.

Despite the fact that are most likely hoping to steal your TV or laptop and not hurt you or your family.

Yes of course....sorry, did I stutter the first time?

What do you expect me to do...stop and ask someone who has already committed the crime of breaking into my house...what their intentions are....how bad they plan to be?

Seriously?

Re:In Florida? Really?

[eaglesrule]

Forensics at the trial showed that Martin had straddled Zimmerman, with the latter being on his back, when the shooting occurred. This position is what is colloquially known as a 'ground and pound', with the explicit purpose of limiting the range of motion and ability of someone to defend themself.

This is why 'stand your ground' never even entered into this particular case. Martin had blocked Zimmerman's ability to escape.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[david_thornley]

On the other hand, if you're a black guy in a neighborhood like that, you might fear for your life if someone was following you with a gun.

Re:American Freedom

[MoaDweeb]

Incorrect as always.

US homicide rate 4.88/ 100,000*
UK homicide rate 0.92/ 100,000

Unsure if this includes DWB, WWB etc.

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[david_thornley]

Not a bad description of the Justine Diamond case, but you seem to be either making up the story on Philando Castile, or not counting him as a controversial shooting (and I assure you it was)..

Re:American Freedom

[AHuxley]

AC recall the UK had the Ring of Steel and the use of CCTV?
"cameras capable of automatically capturing vehicles’ license plates" (9/14/2004)
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5942...

Re:American Freedom

[stealth_finger]

How does the presence of cctv affect my freedom? It doesn't, in the slightest. The people threatening society are the reason they are there in the first place idiot.

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[AmiMoJo]

Police patrols do little to reduce crime. The cause has to be addressed, not the symptom.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[ganjadude]

she was on the phone with him at the time lol. if anyone knew what was up it was her

Re:It's paranoia when they're really victimizing y

[swb]

Yeah, I left that out. Not sure why I blanked on it, it was just about as outrageous as Dimond.

Interestingly, in both Castille and Dimond shootings the officer involved was a minority. I wonder if there's something to that -- minorities who feel they have something to prove to white officers and are more apt to be more violent as a result.

Re:In Florida? Really?

[jbeece]

Proper commenting structure for claims that require sources: Crime dropped X % after Y event occurred, on average Z % per month. Prior the event Y crime increased / decreased by X% in total with Z % per month. Sources go here, more detail the the better, note variation in data is normal and expected, if the crime drops the same every month its should be regarded as suspicious. Avoid: Framing such statements as a question, and other rhetorical devices to make your statement seem self-evident and widely accepted.

Re:Why not?

[drakaan]

There's definitely a benefit to posting AC when you hold an unpopular opinion, but are afraid to be associated with it. I acknowledge that, but the position that the AC I replied to here wasn't one with minimal support. Yes, reputation gets built and destroyed over names, and being thoughtful about what you post and thorough in analyzing your own thoughts and motivations and how they relate to those of the general public and of your own consideration of moral correctness is important to do when deciding what you share publicly, or in a way that can be associated with you.

Posting AC makes it impossible to tell whether a certain reply is a one-off troll or a persistent line of reasoning from an individual. Yes, I'm using a pseudonym, and I've used the same one since 1999, and all are free to indulge themselves with looking back at past replies of mine and even instances where my thinking has changed over time,

When I joined slashdot, the internet was a much more friendly place than it is now, but it was also more common to adopt a persona and present that instead of yourself. I agree that making your actual identity known is an invitation to abuse these days. Am I willing to put my real name on my posts on ./? Probably not, although to me, the difference between public name and login name is just as big as the difference between login name and anonymous. Maybe I'm just a frustrated person on the internet wishing he was arguing with someone slightly less faceless.

You make a good point, other AC.