Repo Men Scan Billions of License Plates -- For the Government (washingtonpost.com)

The Washington Post notes the billions of license plate scans coming from modern repo men "able to use big data to find targets" -- including one who drives "a beat-up Ford Crown Victoria sedan." It had four small cameras mounted on the trunk and a laptop bolted to the dash. The high-speed cameras captured every passing license plate. The computer contained a growing list of hundreds of thousands of vehicles with seriously late loans. The system could spot a repossession in an instant. Even better, it could keep tabs on a car long before the loan went bad... Repo agents are the unpopular foot soldiers in the nation's $1.2 trillion auto loan market... they are the closest most people come to a faceless, sophisticated financial system that can upend their lives...

Derek Lewis works for Relentless Recovery, the largest repo company in Ohio and its busiest collector of license plate scans. Last year, the company repossessed more than 25,500 vehicles -- including tractor trailers and riding lawn mowers. Business has more than doubled since 2014, the company said. Even with the rising deployment of remote engine cutoffs and GPS locators in cars, repo agencies remain dominant. Relentless scanned 28 million license plates last year, a demonstration of its recent, heavy push into technology. It now has more than 40 camera-equipped vehicles, mostly spotter cars. Agents are finding repos they never would have a few years ago. The company's goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that information to reveal patterns... "It's kind of scary, but it's amazing," said Alana Ferrante, chief executive of Relentless.

Repo agents are responsible for the majority of the billions of license plate scans produced nationwide. But they don't control the information. Most of that data is owned by Digital Recognition Network (DRN), a Fort Worth company that is the largest provider of license-plate-recognition systems. And DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private investigators -- even other repo agents. DRN is a sister company to Vigilant Solutions, which provides the plate scans to law enforcement, including police and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Both companies declined to respond to questions about their operations... For repo companies, one worry is whether they are producing information that others are monetizing.

Comments

so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[onepoint]

so what legal tricks can be deployed?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[NaCh0]

Two tricks come to mind:

1) Pay your bills.

2) Don't take loans on things you can't afford.

2a) Don't take loans at all, save cash and buy low mileage 3 yr old cars.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that they scan and capture every plate they see, regardless of its status. Entered into the database is time, location and picture of the plate.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[onepoint]

As many other posters may point out. it's bulk data collection.
So back to the basic question. How do I prevent myself from
being scanned while out on the road and being placed into this database.

all while doing it legally

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Patent Lover]

Find some road tar and stick it on the plate to change a letter or number.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[dwywit]

Is it legal to have bumper stickers that look like licence plates?

Put 2 lookalike out-of-state plates on either side of the genuine plate.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[NoNonAlphaCharsHere]

That sounds suspiciously like the "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide" argument. The fact is, we now live in a 24x7 surveilance police state, with the corporate bloodsuckers monetizing the raw data wherever possible.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[onepoint]

while I do admire the idea, it is illegal to do that.

looking for a complete legal solution that would work
9 time out of 10

and while road tar seems like a great idea, I bet it would
be only 5 out of 10 times

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[onepoint]

Ding Ding Ding, we might have a winner.
but the data is still collected in bulk

your concept is sound because you can label the side plates as no-plate ( which I believe police still use ) and that's how it's entered into the system

that's going to fuck up someone's database LOL

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[onepoint]

yep, so keeping a private life is not easy to do,
that's why I am asking

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Lanthanide]

Do what Steve Jobs did and buy a new car every 90 days so you can exploit the loophole of not having to have a numberplate.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

This idea is so good it will probably be illegal after it is tried for a time.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

I own my car outright, already paid off I have no tickets, fines, or any such thing.

I don't think that prevents them from scanning my plate or logging my movement patterns through town.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You are on a _public_ road. You give up rights in order to used a shared road. Don't like it, walk or bike it. Same reason people have to get driver's licenses and maintain a semblance of sobreity. Your actions with a motorized vehicle affect others, so that info should be public.

"Implied Consent" is the phrase here.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Patent Lover]

Good luck for any cop that figures it out. I'll take your bet.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Alwin Henseler]

Some quotes from the article:

The company's goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that information to reveal patterns. A plate shot outside an apartment at 5 a.m. tells you that's probably where the driver spends the night, no matter their listed home address. So when a repo order comes in for a car, the agent already knows where to look.

Repo agents are responsible for the majority of the billions of license plate scans produced nationwide. But they don't control the information. Most of that data is owned by Digital Recognition Network (DRN), a Fort Worth company that is the largest provider of license-plate-recognition systems. And DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private investigators - even other repo agents. DRN is a sister company to Vigilant Solutions, which provides the plate scans to law enforcement, including police and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Which would indicate every plate scanned ends up in a database. Regardless whether it's on some "wanted" list. And that data is passed on, used for purposes other than what it was gathered for.

That seems like an enormous invasion of privacy. How it's even possible that is legal, is beyond me. In the European Union such shit wouldn't fly (I think). Well perhaps except in police state the UK that is...

Not to mention there's no need for a plate scan to ever leave the scanning vehicle. Not even for a lookup in a "wanted" list: such lists are relatively small, a copy could easily be kept onboard the scanning vehicle, a scanned plate compared against, no match? Forget that plate immediately, only record/upload hits.

Shooting pics in public with -perhaps- some recognisable faces in it, is one thing. But keeping tabs on everyone that passes by is an enormous invasion of privacy - public place or not. That should be illegal unless there's a very pressing need for it. And even then only done with the recording aspect kept to the minimum necessary.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course this only works if you don't live in a nanny state that requires a front plate as well

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Infrared light from the license plate area may do the trick

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Jason1729]

That doesn't work everywhere. Around here, you can't drive the car off the dealer's lot without it being licensed, registered, and plated (which also means you can't buy a car and drive it off the lot the same day).

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Bobberly]

Do New Mexico and Delaware still have LLC registrations where you don't have to list the owner or is isn't released by public record? That would be my first option. Even an LLC in your own state will make it take an extra database join to match you up.

Just sell the vehicle to the LLC and create a rental contract for $1 allowing you to have full use of the vehicle and authority over all repairs. Insurance might go up if they think you're using it for business purposes though.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[oic0]

You obviously have a very narrow view of the world and are trying to apply your own reality to others even when its not applicable. In my city for instance you could not lead any sort of productive life without a car. The city is sprawling and public transport is spotty at best. If you moved to the ideal location it might be possible, but how are you supposed to get the money to afford that move?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

While you make a good point *now*, in the near future the same is likely to apply to walking when facial recognition systems are all over the place.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Burka for men will make sense.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[ShanghaiBill]

Note that they scan and capture every plate they see, regardless of its status.

3. Don't live in a neighborhood with a lot of deadbeats.

Notice that you can accomplish 1, 2 & 3 just by choosing not to be poor.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[FatdogHaiku]

If you found out what the scan database table name is you could model your plates on this idea...
https://xkcd.com/327/

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Bing Tsher E]

Spray road tar (driveway coating) on the repo vehicle's camera?

'Oops, sorry about that' say 10,000 random people over about a five day period. People on bicycles or pedestrians.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[nullforce]

Could backfire:
A man whose car bore personalized license plates reading 'NO PLATE' received notices for thousands of unpaid parking tickets.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch...

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[AHuxley]

Nobody can. Thats the idea. Recall the Domain Awareness System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Two tricks come to mind:
1) Pay your bills.
2) Don't take loans on things you can't afford.

That's all well and good for people who take out loans they can't afford, but this sounds like the repo men are scanning plates indiscriminately. If there's money to be had from this kind of data over-collection, you can bet someone is doing it.

The question being asked is how do we keep from being part of the indiscriminate, unjustified collection. Or better still, how do we keep the indiscriminate over-collection from happening in the first place? If the whole thing was shoot/look up/forget-if-not-flagged, it wouldn't be so bad, but these bastards are recording and storing everything.

Yes, yes, there's the whole "you have no expectation of privacy when in public", but until recently, there always has been such an expectation. Yes, you could be seen in public, but you would generally be ignored or forgotten. You were generally anonymous. No more. Now Big Brother is out there recording everything, making your history forever reviewable, making evidence of your location shareable, making everyone stalkable by people with access to the records.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[DontBeAMoran]

Just park sideways.

Duh.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[DontBeAMoran]

That, or clown make-up.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[DontBeAMoran]

Why does it always have to be serial numbers, though? I want parallel numbers!

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

I watched one of these trucks cruise through the company parking lot. Maybe he was hoping to repo a BMW but something tells me if you are going into the office it is very likely you are paying your bills.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

People also have the right to take pictures in public, which would be impossible if you couldn't include private property in your shot. If you're that concerned, there are other options... park your car such that your plate can't be seen without trespassing on your property, or cover your plate up every time you park at home and take it off again before leaving. Or if you're really extreme unscrew the plates and take them inside with you. The latter two options there are some places with local ordinances against, so check first.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Jeremi]

Nobody said the solutions would be cheap, convenient, or easy.

That said, you could look into using Lyft/Uber/taxis/etc.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm what about "NULL".......

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

All you need to do is make sure your estate has a sturdy wrought-iron gate at the entrance, and a minimum of 500ft of tree-lined drive from the road to the carriage-house.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

4. Remove the driver of a plate scanning car and burn them alive.

4b. Send their ashes and a "You're next" note back to their coworkers.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

A lot of places the police consider walking around late at night suspicious enough to stop and ask for ID, and you should know how these things go by now, if you refuse they'll come up with some 'articulated suspicion', especially in the half of states with stop-and-identify laws, that will force you to ID yourself. Anyone who says there's no 'papers, please' is likely privilege enough to e.g. never had to be walking around suburbs at night, or in an area where they have the wrong skin color (black in a white area, *and* white in a black area-- the blacks are committing some crime, and the white guys are buying drugs, until you satisfy the bigot with a badge otherwise).

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, as much as I hate all this invasion of privacy, the thing that really gets me is how many crimes go unsolved. At least in my State, it's the norm that murders in cities don't get solved. That is, unless you do it in a public place with witnesses. When people talk about the quote of trading a bit of freedom for temporary security, I feel that it's really out of place. Virtually never are we getting the slightest bit of temporary security.

It's the same with all the data tracking for ads. Honestly, that's a great example of the point. Even if all the data tracking did do a good job figuring out my interests, it wouldn't show me ads for stuff I want. After all, I already know what my interests are and can usually find out with the internet related things and hence the stuff I want. No, the motive is to offer me things I don't really want to convince me I really want it. I mean, why else would they be offering it if they've got such a well targeted AI?

The point, of course, is that the point of the Police State isn't to do a better job policing. It isn't even to oppress people. It's honestly just to have the power to fuck with people. That's the most base amusement megalomaniacs have. Not to crush them. Not to elevate them. But to have toy soldiers and manipulate them into doing what you want without ever breathing a word of your orders to them. Convince them they want to do it, and they will fight to the death to do your bidding without lifting a fist against you.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Ichijo]

Don't operate deadly machinery in public.

Or join an auto club and drive a different car every day.

There was a time when most people could buy a gallon of milk without carrying any government ID. Since then we've reconfigured our cities around the car so we have to drive everywhere and always be ready to show our driver licenses, all in the name of freedom. Ironic, isn't it?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[laughingcoyote]

In the US at least, you can absolutely take photographs that include private property from a public place. You can't do it in such a way as to violate an actual reasonable expectation of privacy or to photo something you normally couldn't see (e.g., a long zoom through a bedroom window), but if something would be ordinarily visible from public space, it can be photographed. Copyright has nothing to do with it; the copyright belongs to the photographer. A car in a driveway is not reasonably expected to be in private, since anyone walking or driving by could see it.

The eyes can't trespass. If it's something you could see, you can photograph it. Ask Barbara Streisand about trying to stop photography.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[b0s0z0ku]

Live in a place where cops are either severely legally restricted (some European countries) or too terrified to ask anyone for anything (Detroit, Camden, Mogadishu) :)

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Back into parking spots.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course this only applies in states where front plates aren't required (Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico. North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia)

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

The Virtue Signalling is strong in this one. Reading comprehension, not so much.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't matter. The cars are all in public where the owners have no expectation of privacy.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[phantomfive]

The I'd rather have the repo man with my data than Uber

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course they have the right. Your house and driveway are in public view in a public place.

Of course you could always buy a large parcel of land and locate the house away from a publicly viewable area. You could even throw a fence around the land if you want to be extra sure someone doesn't trespass to film your house.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

In life, you're not going to always think that everything is fair. Too bad for you.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Then live in a place that doesn't have stop and identify laws. In California, for example, you are under no obligation to identify yourself to the police because it violates an individual's right to freedom of movement. There is judicial precedent for this too.

Also, I have to ask if you are the "wrong" skin colour? Do you have personal experience being harassed because you are black and went through a white area? Or are you just some white guy talking out of his ass?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

The cars are in public. You have no expectation of privacy in public.

If you are worried about it, then park your car inside of your garage.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

5. Go to prison for the rest of your life.
5b. Get gang raped by a bunch of burly men for the rest of your life.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[ArchieBunker]

License plates are meant to be seen by design...

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be vandalism, which is crime and would be captured by the very camera that you did it to.

You didn't really think that one through, did you?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[BlueStrat]

yep, so keeping a private life is not easy to do,
that's why I am asking [about protection from ALPR privacy invasion]

Buy an ALPR unit yourself and situate it covertly by the parking lot entrance/ramp for your city's/State's Capitol/City Administration building(s) and/or Federal buildings, record their plates and build a database, and publish it online.

People, especially people in power, don't typically care about invasions of privacy by big data until it's *their* privacy being compromised.

Make it personal for those in power if you want something done about it.

Strat

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

That only works on cameras without an infrared filter. It would also run down your battery while your car is parked overnight.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah right! Stay at home dude!

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

lol that someone thinks that's Flamebait really drives my point home. Sorry if that upsets you, but that's the reality out there.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

Well it's hard to ignore the countless voices of black people who have talked about being stopped for no reason in white neighborhoods, do you think they're all lying or something?

I do however have experience with the other side, being stopped by police asking what I'm doing for walking around certain parts of the Bronx late at night. Had a friend there in a bad neighborhood (an actual friend, I wasn't doing anything illegal), and was stopped more than once in between her apartment and the subway station.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

I can take pictures of everything i can see from a public sidewalk (you can't tresspass my eyes)

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[jeti]

That's like saying since I'm free to move in public, I'm also free to stalk you.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You could even throw a fence around the land if you want to be extra sure someone doesn't trespass to film your house.

Yeah, but that's racist.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

That doesn't mean they were meant to be scanned and stored complete with date, time, and location, in ever growing databases. They were ment to be able to find whoever is responsible for the car at need, not "in case we might need it someday". Certainly they weren't ment to become parts of large datasets that end up being re-sold and re-diced by a growing gaggle of companies and governments.

There is a subtle difference in there somewhere, but where?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

>For example, if you're walking down the street, you have no obligation to identify yourself to police, there is no "papers, please" here.

You gave up that right when you chose to be born in the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Two tricks come to mind:
1) Pay your bills.
2) Don't take loans on things you can't afford.

But that won't help, and you implying it would is going to mislead a lot of people.

Paying your bills and not using loans for a car are great solutions to keep the legit repo men from taking the banks car back from your possession, sure. But that wasn't even the problem stated that you replied to.

How exactly do you expect paying your bills to help at all when hackers take all of this stored data and release it on the Internet? It's of course going to happen.

A thief that knows everywhere you have driven to in the last ten years isn't going to give one shit if you pay your bills and don't get loans you can't afford.
The thief only cares about where your car has gone over the last ten years so they can guess where it will be for them to go and steal it.

I, like the person you replied to, don't want thieves knowing how to better steal my belongings.

In fact I would go one step further and say that your claim about paying your bills will somehow make you safe from thieves is actually a harmful statement in how wrong it is and how much you are implying the thieves should be assisted with this data.

I agree with the person you replied to. The best way to not enable effecient thievery is to not pool your last decades driving patterns into a nice collection to hand over to the thieves in the first place.
Since keeping the data secure and out of the thieves hands seems incapable for literally any company in the USA, since there is no reason forced upon them to do so (like making that act illegal, and not encouraging spending zero dollars on security), clearly the best option is to not let that data exist in the first place.

Since destroying the license plate companies, servers, storage, and employees all are crimes as well, the only realistic option we as people have is to not give them data about us in the first place.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Uberbah]

People also have the right to take pictures in public, which would be impossible if you couldn't include private property in your shot.

Because people taking pictures with a cell phone is totally the same thing as an automated tracking system plugged into a massive location database on anyone who drives.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Hognoxious]

Well perhaps except in police state the UK that is...

Yeah, with their compulsory ID cards. None of that in France, Germany, Belgium...

Oh wait. It's the other way round, and you're a fat moron.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Calydor]

OR you have a decent job that has caused you to think you can have a life of supreme luxury, ending up with bills on REALLY expensive things rather than duct-taped-together rust buckets?

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Bud: "Bruce I. Peason, brokerage consultant. Fucking millionaire six payments behind. I've never understood it."

Otto: "What's that?"

Bud: "Fucking millionaires. They never pay their bills! See you at the yard."

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[golodh]

The short answer seems tobe: you don't because there aren't any legal means to do that.

You're obligated to ensure your car has a legible license plate with a registration, in some states as soon as you take it on a public road. And as soon as you do that, *anyone* may photograph, capture, database-store, and database-match that number, and sell any resulting information. Nothing you can do about that under US state or federal law.

The whole purpose of the law pertaining to license plates is to make sure there are no loopholes. So that's how those laws were drawn up: to make sure there are no loopholes. Therefore, if you actually manage to find one, it will be plugged and made illegal. The interests in having set of a viable license plate regulations (law enforcement and repossession of a loan company's property) seem to outweigh any privacy concerns.

Sorry, but there it is. Cars on public roads cannot be anonymous. And if that car is registered to you personally, neither can you.

Don't like that? Start lobbying to get the law changed.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

None. The Information Age's twin sister is the Surveillance Age. The bad news is that you can't have one without the other, the good news is that you don't have to wring your hands too much because it has never been your choice anyway, and there is nothing you or me or anyone else could have done to prevent it.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's hard to ignore the countless voices of black people who have talked about being stopped for no reason in white neighborhoods, do you think they're all lying or something?

What about the even countless more black people who don't have complaints? You just conveniently ignore that?

I do however have experience with the other side, being stopped by police asking what I'm doing for walking around certain parts of the Bronx late at night. Had a friend there in a bad neighborhood (an actual friend, I wasn't doing anything illegal), and was stopped more than once in between her apartment and the subway station.

So then what you're saying is that both black and white people get stopped by the police for walking around at night. So where is the profiling happening?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Except stalking is illegal. Taking pictures in public locations is not. Not sure how you managed to conflate the two.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, in EU we've got GDPR which will protect us.. Uncle Sam, however, hates that concept - primary because of Big Data Lobbying.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, we have been living in 1984 since September 11th. 2001 - which btw. only happened because the lack of security on internal flights in the USA (it was too expensive, we were told by the US airlines).

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Better yet, scan entrances to a CIA operation and cross-check your data with employment records to find the people registered for unrelated jobs: those are your spies.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but not harvested for big data.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You are welcome to try. You should however be aware that the rules that apply to the populace do not necessarily apply to the Ruling Elite, and that you might incur life-altering consequeces for acting... Unwisely. Just saying. Take it as friendly advice. Those are difficult times, the economy being what it is, people should be mindful of their places.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

The only point it drives home is that you're cherry-picking specific incidents and ignoring the details of those incidents. Contrary to what you seem to think, trying to speak for people of other races and attempting to play the race card doesn't mean you instantly win, nor does it mean your argument can't be called into question.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You need an ID to do those things anywhere. That's because the people entrusting you with their property have a right to know who is staying in it. For buying a place, it's a legal requirement so that the government knows what assets you have and who to tax. It's hardly "papers please" and more "common sense please".

The next thing you're going to tell us is how outraged you are that you have to show proof of identity to your employer and can't just work as an anonymous employee. Or that you can't open a bank account without telling the bank who you are.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

I would use "Microsoft" or "TRUMP" or "NRA"

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[BlueStrat]

Better yet, scan entrances to a CIA operation and cross-check your data with employment records to find the people registered for unrelated jobs: those are your spies.

I'm not suggesting to expose spies or compromise national security or any criminal investigations. I'm simply suggesting that these sorts of invasions of privacy might get more attention if important people actually had a personal stake in protecting personal privacy because of bringing home the fact to them that their power does not insulate them.

After all, as they like to tell us, ALPR doesn't require any special permissions and is not illegal because if you're in public anyone can photograph/video you and/or your vehicle without your permission and they can do anything with that data including storing it in a database and using algorithms on it and posting it to the internet. Goose-gander.

Strat

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Like you don't drive to the store with the cheapest prices?

Part of that low cost is monetizing everything possible. So unless you're off the grid (and not posting online) you'r BENEFITING from that monitization.

Is youtube free? Yes. Why? Ads and tracking.
Is slashdot free? Yes. Why? Ads and tracking.
Is Google maps free? yes. Why? Ads and tracking.

You would never pay a subscription for those services, your spout your filthy mouth off about tracking. Either pay up (lol sure you will) or shut up (lol sure you will).

Hypocritical much?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[BlueStrat]

You are welcome to try. You should however be aware that the rules that apply to the populace do not necessarily apply to the Ruling Elite, and that you might incur life-altering consequeces for acting... Unwisely. Just saying. Take it as friendly advice. Those are difficult times, the economy being what it is, people should be mindful of their places.

Although that may be true, what price would you pay and what risks would you be willing to take to fight for the freedom and personal privacy of yourself and everyone else including those you care most for? Make no mistake, this is the start of monitoring, tracking, storing, and analyzing the movements of every vehicle and person which is Big Brother writ far larger, and ends up at a place far more dangerous than anything in "1984".

Strat

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

Except that *is* the point, that you and others think it's cherry picking isolated incidents. Big old blind spot for a certain type of police abuse. But go ahead, keep modding me flamebait, it's not going to make it any less true.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

So how many have to experience this before it's a problem?

You don't understand how stopping someone because they don't match the predominant skin color in the area is profiling? "Profiling" doesn't exclusively refer to one race.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Cederic]

Nope. No ID card necessary to buy an apartment in the UK.
No ID card necessary to get a hotel room in the UK.

I know, I've done both.

Not sure about renting an apartment, haven't tried that. Certainly didn't need an ID card to rent a single room in a shared house though.

So unless you are homeless, it's papers please.

Maybe we're talking about a different UK. I'm referring to the British Isles, which one are you thinking of?

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[houghi]

I have not paid my bills and I had a loan. However where I live when I buy a car and can not pay,it is irrelevant if I bought a tv or a car. It could mean my goods can be possessed, including the car AND tv, regardless if they where paid cash.

I owe them money, not a car. Ican get a car loan at my bank or at the dealer. Makes no difference.

That one time they came by to take my stuff, we were able to work something out.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Sir Holo]

Which would indicate every plate scanned ends up in a database. Regardless whether it's on some "wanted" list. And that data is passed on, used for purposes other than what it was gathered for.

That seems like an enormous invasion of privacy.

Yes, it is a terrible invasion of privacy. But it is performed by private companies; you can do it, too (I inquired). Or go through a PI to get access to the database---info is not sold to us plebs).

The problem in the US with this is that it is an industry that arose suddenly (started data-aggregating suddenly). Them selling to law enforcement is bad enough. Law enforcement then relying upon unverified data, that was obtained through a short-circuit of the 4th amendment, bought from a private, 3rd-party's database does not sit right.

It fulfills, TODAY, one of the functions off the infamous Panopticon – in this case turned on all people with cars in the US. It's tagging and tracking.

It enables law-enforcement engaging in citizen spying while doing an end-run around constitutional protections. The cheap collection of granular data on a person's (car's) where-a bouts over spans of time, acquired retroactively, without the need for suspicion of any crime; past or present; nor to get a warrant for the info.

FTA & 4th Amendment (USA): ""The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, ..."

Look for the Supreme Court to take this up in 5-10 years. Closer to 10––they just recently realized that photos can potentially be Photoshopped before introduction into Exhibits, and put some controls in place. Let them get caught up with audio and video being entirely fake-able first. Then they might get around to this topic.

IANAL. Any lawyer please chime in if we do indeed have a reasonable expectation of privacy against recording our license plates (public vehicle tags) on a continual basis. Warrant lets cops to do it; openly legal for private organizations to do it;. It is questionable whether the use of the 'continual-monitoring' private databases accessed by cops – when done without a warrrant or probable cause – is a breach of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution. Given the article, I'd hazard a guess that this has not yet been ironed out fully in case law.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

>>>You need an ID card in the UK to:
* Rent an apartment
* Buy an apartment
* Get a hotel room

No - There is no actual thing as an ID Card in the UK.. (There was briefly a few years back but almost no-one got them and they have since been scrapped). There are things like Driving Licences and Passports which can be used for ID purposes but neither are compulsory - You don't have to drive or travel abroad.. And you don't need them to rent or buy apartments (or "Flats" as we call them) or get a hotel room..

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I am, the dealers have a stock of plates, and they can register the car with the state directly.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Sir Holo]

Note that they scan and capture every plate they see, regardless of its status.

3. Don't live in a neighborhood with a lot of deadbeats.

Notice that you can accomplish 1, 2 & 3 just by choosing not to be poor.

These databases, by their very nature, have a strong socioeconomic bias against the poor, or anyone living near them. Scanners undoubtedly stick to high-traffic locations.

While I've no doubt that these plate-trollers patrol poorer neighborhoods more than wealthy (garaged) ones. Parking structures are undoubtedly gold mines, as are the interstates, especially if approached exit-by-exit, rather than blanket, but that is for the plate scanners to decide. At a guess, their patrolling (Google-maps-like car) is planned, coordinated, and repeated at regular intervals.

In cities, high-end cars go from garage-to-garage, never being parked on a public street. I hear that some people don't bother to register their expensive cars for this reason. Now that the undetectability no longer holds, as they can be caught driving, that will slowly end. At least there's that.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Bing Tsher E]

Perhaps we need to raise the liability cost for retaining data to be commensurate to the risk. Holding and maintaining control over a huge database like this has to introduce huge risks for abuse. The risk of said abuse should fall completely on the maintainers of the data. They couldn't afford it, frankly.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[rmdingler]

Two tricks come to mind:

1) Pay your bills.

2) Don't take loans on things you can't afford.

2a) Don't take loans at all, save cash and buy low mileage 3 yr old cars.

Spotted on a bumper sticker:

Easiest way to get back on your feet? Miss two car payments.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

In the European Union such shit wouldn't fly (I think). Well perhaps except in police state the UK that is...

Spoiler: UK did all that under the EU and is still for now in the EU. Probably legal for all the other member states than.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[cloudmaster]

While the joke isn't lost on me, it misses the point. Your home address is already known from several other databases. The risk here is more in identifying your travel patterns. If you're being scanned often enough in "public," logic can identify that you must be at home when you're not found somewhere else.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Show duplicate plates? Might work...

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[zabbey]

When me and my white friends would drive to the ghetto to buy drugs the cops would stop us all the time. It was obviously because we were young, white teenagers in a predominantly black neighborhood known to sell drugs.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[grumling]

Unfortunately in the eyes of the law that's probably true.

Our lawmakers and representatives have no idea what is going on, and are so ill-equipped to deal with the problem we'll probably never see a proper resolution.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[zabbey]

There's no way keep your vehicle information private. It is, by design, public information. You'll need to buy a shit ton of land and never leave if you want to drive without any information being made public.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You posted it on your vehicle. How is me seeing a sign you posted an invasion of your privacy? How is me remembering what I saw an invasion of your privacy? How is a savant remembering every license plate he's seen an invasion of your privacy? Oh, it's magically different with a computer? You posted the sign on your fucking car and drove it up and down a public road. That's completely not private.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

"Or if you're really extreme unscrew the plates and take them inside with you."

I was under the impression that a car on private property does not have to be registered. This suggests covering/removing a plate while on private property is 100% legal.

Does anyone know otherwise?

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[mrclevesque]

"Notice that you can accomplish 1, 2 & 3 just by choosing not to be poor."

Maybe, but very few people choose to be poor.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Curunir_wolf]

Except stalking is illegal. Taking pictures in public locations is not. Not sure how you managed to conflate the two.

So you're saying stalking an individual can be prosecuted, but mass stalking is perfectly okay. Got it.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Building a fence is racist now? Can someone give me a list of actions that are not offensive nowadays?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

The city is sprawling and public transport is spotty at best.

Sounds like the Detroit Metro area. Useless public transportation, too few highways, and a "genius" MDOT leader who thinks repairing all roads at the same time is productivity.

I can't imagine why no business/organization want to place a headquarters here.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[MikeMo]

Actually, I think 1, 2a and 2b are the best ways to not be poor.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you seriously believe that paying a subscription fee will end tracking and data monetizing? Ha ha ha.

Itâ(TM)s time for you to go, Grasshopper.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[apoc.famine]

Currently? Yes. That's what the law says.

Change the law, and change this unfortunate reality.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

The US seems so hopeless in these matters, that the repo man probably sells the data. Even if he earns like $100 a year, if that's legal and you earn $100 by clicking a button why not?

Now, for usable transportation : get a bicycle (and spend on maintenance. people seem to have a fallacy of not willing to spend $20 on bicycle parts while giving no second thought to $100 or much more on a car bill/parts)
It's not a universal answer either but even works if you hate being scanned in public transport.
Speed and range of a bicycle are constantly underestimated, e.g. five miles is no big deal at all (it cuts time walking to/from parking lots, bus stops, etc.)

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

there's no need for a plate scan to ever leave the scanning vehicle. Not even for a lookup in a "wanted" list: such lists are relatively small, a copy could easily be kept onboard the scanning vehicle, a scanned plate compared against, no match? Forget that plate immediately, only record/upload hits.

Except that keeping non-wanted hits directly benefits their bottom line: the instant a car becomes wanted (because a payment deadline expires), they have a history of that car's whereabouts, so know where to go looking for it.

They could expand their "wanted" list to every car with an outstanding loan, but that would be such a large fraction of all cars on the road that the point of filtering starts to become questionable.

The problem is that watching all the people all the time has become so affordable that it's economically advantageous to do it for relatively minor reasons.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

What about the Trayvon Martin shooting? That was not even with a law enforcement officer involved and in fact I'm not interesting in talking about "racial" issues. What I thought back then : guy walking alone, that's "suspicious". I think the mall-cop-wannabe who harassed him said he was looking at houses/buildings, well that's also something you might do when finding your way, or just because there's nothing else to look at.

Probably, being on bicycle would help. I don't know about living in the US.. but a cop, or a "watchman" has to more actively stop you (ask you to stop) if you're on bicycle. Although I read of a police shooting where the victim was riding "suspiciously" (did a rolling stop where he was standing on a pedal, which the cop construed as preparing to flee). I think the guy was killed.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Most places have local ordinances which require vehicles to be registered and plated when parked outside. It's mostly to combat junk vehicles.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

If that's a really big property, surely (where you might use golf carts to go around your property, etc.)
If you have an old car on a regular small property that obviously seems not in use, probably ; unless local regulations or homeowners etc. fuck with you for having "junk" or even specifically a non road worthy car for weeks/months end.
If it's a road worthy, registered, insured car on the driveway that has obviously nowhere to go but on the road, and that's your only car. Well I could see you getting in trouble! That's a gut feeling, but rules lawyering might not save you if for some reason a ready-to-go car with no plates would get you in trouble...

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

No.
It has always been possible for someone to watch and record plates, always been legal, and has been done quite frequently.
The only difference now is that people are more aware, and it has the scary "with a computer" tag on it.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Woldscum]

AND insurance. DMV here will not even touch the title swap/registration paper work unless you have proof of insurance. So you need to get the VIN# and add the car to your insurance BEFORE you purchase/own the car.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

So how many have to experience this before it's a problem?

Enough to be statistically significant. They also have to be legit cases, not instances where you conveniently skipped over details of the encounter to fit your argument.

You don't understand how stopping someone because they don't match the predominant skin color in the area is profiling? "Profiling" doesn't exclusively refer to one race.

You were originally trying to make it out like it only happened to black people until you got called out.

By your own admission, it happens to people regardless of their race. That isn't profiling.

So yeah, fail. Try again.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Trayvon Martin was not only a stranger in the area (something that neighbourhood watch program volunteers are taught to keep an eye out for) but he was also trespassing across other people's properties. In that case, George Zimmerman happened to be correct and Trayvon Martin turned out (as proven by Martin's own texts) to be a violent and arrogant criminal who habitually vandalised and stole other people's property and assaulted and bullied people.

This was already settled in a court of law. George Zimmerman did nothing illegal and acted in self-defense when Trayvon Martin assaulted him.

Really, trying to paint Trayvon Martin as some kind of innocent saint is just disingenuous when all of the facts tell a completely different story.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you won't mind listing the specific people and incidents you are talking about so that we can lay ALL of the cards out on the table, will you?

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

How is taking pictures in any way, shape or form "stalking"?

Stalking implies a pattern of behaviour, such as someone following you around every day or staking out your house every day. That isn't happening here. They drive by and snap pictures once, which is perfectly legal. In public places, you have no expectation of privacy. If you don't believe me, then go ask any lawyer or judge.

Seriously, you should go brush up on the law, because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about and you are merely lashing out like a child throwing a temper tantrum because you can't get your way.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

This x1000000

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Why give you a list? It's Easier to just tell you what to think and say. ;)

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because they saw what happen to America's car manufacturing business. Some places in Detroit are a ghost town.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You are making up shit. You are implying and trying to reach so hard. Putting words in the OPs mouth.

It's not a black or white problem. It's a both problem. It's not a black and white situation(no pun intended) and you not seeing the other colors is a problem.

You are twisting the argument to fit you own made up narrative. Stop that. We call what you wrote a strawman. There are different kinds. Look it up and tell me what kind you are.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

What? He isn't and wasn't only talking about black people. Go back and read his original post. He specifically stated both scenarios in which it happens to both black and white people.

Jesus, you idiots only see and hear what you want. You legit can't even parse a sentence without getting all SJW on us. And you wonder why the white race gets looked down upon these days. Maybe because it's people like you with their heads up their asses screaming at the top of their lungs "stop trying to protect the black man, white men have problems tooooooo"

Fuck off white knight(no pun intended) ;)

What's the matter? White man ain't getting enough love? You gotta white knight for the white man so he feels like he's getting respect?

Fuck off you ignorant cuck.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

?? "Choosing not to be poor" is somehow insightful??? There must be way, way more libertarian assholes on /. than I thought.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Lies. So it's ok to shoot an unarmed black man in the streets. As long as he's on the neighborhood watch list?

Stop trying to make it look like an accident. The kid was shot because a fake cop was scared. Scared of a teenager.

Let me paint this picture for you: a grown man with a gun was scared of an unarmed teenager. I'll say it again. An unarmed man was SCARED of a black unarmed teenager.

Let that sink in. And you wonder why we don't want everyone to have guns.

Also, you paint Trayvon out to be a monster. What about George Zimmerman? After being acquitted, the man was legit arrested for stalking and and threatening a person. In fact, he has been in the news for law troubles for quite sometime now.

But nahhhhh, Trayvon was the one who was the bad apple.

I'm not saying either are model citizens. I'm saying don't come here and try to just present one side of the story and claim to be right. You aren't. In fact, you just made yourself look like a fucking idiot borderline racist.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you serious? Watch the fucking news. Read a newspaper. Google it for fucks sakes. Legit you must have your head up your ass.

Racial profiling is real. Police brutality is real. Police breaking the law to arrest people is real. Stop pretending it isn't real because it doesn't HAPPEN TO YOU!

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[fafalone]

https://slate.com/news-and-pol...

https://whyy.org/segments/blac...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

https://www.independent.co.uk/...

https://www.bitchmedia.org/art...



and on and on and on, just from the first page of my links search. I'll leave finding the hundreds of stories about white people stopped in black "drug areas" as an exercise, it's not much harder to find as many as you want to know it's a problem too.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[onepoint]

While I do like your idea,
it requires amazingly deep pockets just because of the legal defense fund,
once you wake up a sleeping elephant, it takes a lot to bring it back to sleep.

I wonder what would happen if the concept was applied to the local law enforcement, I think it would be a more violent reaction.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Woldscum]

Here for a new car the dealer submits the state paper work which requires proof of insurance. You get a 30 day paper temp tag. The real plate gets mailed to the dealership from the state. The dealer calls you when the plate arrives. The state DMV offices are the only ones with piles of new plates here.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[AutodidactLabrat]

How about never drive.
This is where "reasonable expectation of privacy" exceptions turn a republic into a police state
Just like we told you 30 years ago
Seriously ....!

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Curunir_wolf]

Wow, what an idiot you are. You don't know jack shit.

You're the douchebag idiot that the claimed doing moving around in public is perfectly legal. You failed to make any distinguishing principle.

So if a company has enough information on a person based on all the pictures they collect from multiple locations, on a constant basis, and can track me everywhere I go and pull enough information together, regardless of how collected, to produce a profile, how is that different from stalking.

Fucking morons like you are why we can't have nice things. You want corporations and government to have this ability, but when a citizen tries to do it you're all like OMG YOU ARE STALKING ARREST HIM PUT HIM IN GITMO!!!

What a tool you are. Go crawl back under the rock you came from you shit ass fucker.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[CohibaVancouver]

2a) Don't take loans at all, save cash and buy low mileage 3 yr old cars.

It's a mystery to me why many more people don't follow this simple rule.

(Of course if no one bought new there'd be no low-mileage three-year-old cars for the rest of us :)

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[BlueStrat]

I wonder what would happen if the concept was applied to the local law enforcement, I think it would be a more violent reaction.

Check out some of the "photography is not a crime" (PINAC) videos on YT. I imagine the reactions would be quite similar. Note that he doesn't have deep pockets. Just a regular dude.

Strat

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[budgenator]

You can't; it's like asking how you can drive an invisible car. Any car parked on the side of the road can be scanning the plates of every car going by.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that they scan and capture every plate they see, regardless of its status.

3. Don't live in a neighborhood with a lot of deadbeats.

Notice that you can accomplish 1, 2 & 3 just by choosing not to be poor.

Was that intended to be funny? If so you left out the /s.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[budgenator]

The copyright is for the photograph, not the items being photographed. Photographers often ask for permission out of politeness not necessity.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

> It's a mystery to me why many more people don't follow this simple rule.

No mystery to me. People want things they can't afford.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

You notice who the government goes to anymore for information about the population? Private sector companies that the populace uses every day. Credit cards, rental cars, individual stores, cell phones, internet. The companies are tracking us already way more then the government has done, and on a micro level. People have no problem with that, or if they do... Hell, if they use GPS.

I have been saying this for years, way before 9/11.

People are hypocrites when they bitch and moan government surveillance.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

that doesn't stop the scanning and invasion of privacy brainiac!

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[bluegutang]

Not to mention, in a few years facial recognition will be widespread, and it won't help to take public transportation.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Depending on the laws in your state there may be various options. Most if not all ALPRs (automated license plate readers) operate in the IR spectrum which is why a lot of states have recently redesigned their plates so that they are very high contrast in the IR spectrum. This becomes important in determining how to defeat them within the law. Do some states still allow license plate covers? If so and you happen to be in one get one that is opaque in the IR, or use a clear paint that is IR opaque. Now if you don't live in a state where covers are legal you have a harder time. About the only thing you could do (again depending on vehicle illumination laws) is flood out lots of IR near the plate and horribly throw off the metering. By lots I mean like 100s of watts as you want it to be like taking a picture of the sun and push the auto exposure so far out of wack that it darkens everything else. If someone wants some info on what others have tried here is one guy who tried to get the flaring effect but was only working with a few watts of power. Again he might of had better success if he went up to 100s of watts, but still I think the best bet would be to go for throwing the exposure off.

100s of watts isn't really anything when your car is running but will quickly drain your batter when off so there you would either have to go without or plug the thing in.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Actually it is legal to take pictures from any public location of things that people would not have a reasonable expectation of privacy. This would include things like the exterior of our house, the car in your driveway, crap in your backyard, etc. so long as it is plainly visible from the street. However it would likely exclude me from setting up my 1000mm lens and using that to take pictures of the interior of your house or if you have a fence climbing that fence to snap a picture of what is on the other side.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[BranMan]

Difficult times indeed! Even us purveyors of shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this time.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[desdinova 216]

I thought the states that required front plates did so in order to have Law Enforcement (revenue collection) easier targets for speed enforcement

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Hence nanny states

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Uberbah]

Our lawmakers and representatives have no idea what is going on

If only we were so lucky - our public officials are bought, cowed, or were team players to start with (CIA director Bush getting to the White House). One noticeable case of this is Al Franken, who went from aggressively questioning an FBI stooge on how roving wiretaps could possibly be legal under the 4th Amendment, to being a supporter of warrantless wiretapping.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[slashdotwannabe]

Notice that you can accomplish 1, 2 & 3 just by choosing not to be poor.

Please tell me this is sarcasm? Otherwise it's got to be about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on /.

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[KingBenny]

i agree with that but i fear you overestimate most peoples resistance to advertising and un-spoken peer pressure, the need to mow your lawn when you hear a lawnmower and for some reason to make sure its 1mm shorter , and the likes i have a special idea on repo men actually, it takes a certain mindset to WANT to do a job like that, to be able to take everything from someone and then hide behind the fact that "its your job" , not unlike long ago slaughtering a whole village in vietnam and raping the kids cos "it was orders" ... not the same, but not unlike i feel repo men should be stripped of their posessions for crimes against humanity, their children kicked out into the street and when the little ones ask why they should be told "well, daddy shouldnt have done that" scum of the earth, and untouchable too i know for one story here where a repist accidentally "broke into" the wrong house, the door next to the appartment in the hallway, had all the furniture taken and by the time the family got back they were give the choice to bid on their own furniture the f-cker was untouchable, couldnt even be sued, and since "the legal process had started" those people couldnt simply get their stuff back coming home from a holiday after doing nothing wrong, maybe its different overthere, but in hellgium there about the level of cops, doctors and judges, part of the protectorate SCUM OF THE EARTH with no liability whatsoever so STRIP THE REPO MEN ! kick their families out of their houses , they made a choice after all, they shouldnt have done that

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Is slashdot free? Yes. Why? Ads and tracking.
Either pay up (lol sure you will) or shut up (lol sure you will).

slashdot has been, and will be replaced again if need be ;)

Re:so how do you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

However it would likely exclude me from setting up my 1000mm lens and using that to take pictures of the interior of your house or if you have a fence climbing that fence to snap a picture of what is on the other side.

Yet this is exactly what paparazzi do, and get away with it.

When they do get sued, I'm sure the tabloid publishers do a cost/benefit analysis - will the fine be less than the profits they'll make by splashing lurid pictures on the front page?

have done this at all the Gun Shows

[john of sparta]

old news: Federal agents have persuaded police officers to scan license plates to gather information about gun-show customers, government emails show, raising questions about how officials monitor constitutionally protected activity. https://www.wsj.com/articles/g... looks like they've gone "contractor".

Re:have done this at all the Gun Shows

[AHuxley]

Also deep into the border states. Every plate, face, drivers face, passengers face. All cell phone use, data.

Re:have done this at all the Gun Shows

[fafalone]

2/3rds of people in the US live in an area where customs/border patrol/INS can do that, and set up 'papers, please' checkpoints, because of the ridiculous ruling that the 'border exception' applied anywhere within 100 miles of a border (which includes the coast, and apparently international airports). That anyone can make an argument the Supreme Court doesn't wipe their ass with the Bill of Rights every time law enforcement cries about criminals is astounding.

Re:have done this at all the Gun Shows

[ooloorie]

Also deep into the border states. Every plate, face, drivers face, passengers face. All cell phone use, data.

Yet, that data doesn't seem to be used for enforcement, since we still have tens of millions of people living in the US illegally.

Paying your bills is one thing

[Anonymous Coward]

But their goal is to scan every vehicle plate for patterns etc... That to me is a bit overboard. Doubt its illegal but yeah not sure I like the idea.

Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's go get sushi and not pay!

Re:Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[Dusthead Jr.]

The life of a Repo Man is always intense.

Re:Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[Anonymous Coward]

“Whatever you say, officer. Just don’t look in my trunk.”

Re:Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[plopez]

The more you drive the dumber you are.

Re:Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[plopez]

Thanks, now I'm jonesing for that movie

Re:Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[alternative_right]

I never broke into a car, I never hot-wired a car, kid.

I never broke into a trunk.

I shall not cause harm to any vehicle nor the personal contents thereof nor, through inaction, let that vehicle or the personal contents thereof. come to harm.

It's what I call the repo code, kid.

Etch it into your brain.

Re:Shrimp plate... Or plate of shrimp

[Anonymous Coward]

Ctrl-F

How long until scanner-hammers start showing up?

[bonedonut]

Some device that masks your license plate number from the scanner.

Re:so how doS you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

Well there's Steve Jobs trick, he'd buy a new car and drive it without plates, and after a few weeks when the plates were ready for the car he'd sell back the car and buy a new car without plates and repeat.

Re:How long until scanner-hammers start showing up

[Anonymous Coward]

They're already around, but they're not legal.

Law is on the side of the wealthy.

Re:How long until scanner-hammers start showing up

[Anonymous Coward]

They already exist. Somewhat like the privacy filters for computer monitors. When the plate is viewed at normal viewing angles it is visible, at an off angle like a road side speed cam, or an overhead toll cam the view of the plate is blocked out. These are already generally illegal in most places

Corporate Stalking.

[Insanity Defense]

So how about charging them under stalking laws? Or possibly under laws regulating detectives, I recall the RIAA had a case or two tossed out because their "agents" weren't legally detectives.

No privacy in public

[Anonymous Coward]

You are in public so you can expect no privacy... isn't that what we were told when people freaking out after finding that Google vans are taking photos all around them?

And when people found out Google vans also record wifi information?

So, NOW, these same fanbois who defended Google are finally freaking out when other companies are doing the same thing (actually doing less, they just looked at the cars, not taking pictures of people nor look into what's inside people's fences).

Yeah, cry me a river.

Re:No privacy in public

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you know these are the same people? Are were you just talking bullshit to prop up your idiotic comment?

Though the Feds are prohibited from collecting ...

[rnturn]

... this data, there's nothing from stopping them from buying it from private companies that do their dirty work for them.

Spirit of the law, schmirit of the law.

Not really much of a trick

[SuperKendall]

Car cover. That is it. Anything else (like faking a digit on the plate) is probably illegal.

Also of course, a garage... though if I were them cruising parking garages would be standard practice.

Re:Not really much of a trick

[Jeremi]

Car cover. That is it.

I like this solution. Glue a few cameras to the outside and mount their displays on the dashboard, and you can even use it while driving :)

Interesting idea. Opposite of stalking

[raymorris]

That's an interesting idea. Looking at stalking statutes, this wouldn't be covered. As example statute:

Sec. 42.072. STALKING. (a) A person commits an offense if the person, on more than one occasion and pursuant to the same scheme or course of conduct that is directed specifically at another person, knowingly engages in conduct that [long list of harassment etc]

Stalking is a repeated pattern of behavior fixated on a specific individual. This is the opposite - trying to see as many cars as possible, with the ideal goal of seeing every car in the state.

It was an interesting idea, though.

Re:Interesting idea. Opposite of stalking

[Insanity Defense]

From the article they are making personal tracking patterns of your movements. That could be enough to push it to stalking.

Re:Interesting idea. Opposite of stalking

[Anonymous Coward]

But they aren't doing it repeatedly in a short timeframe and they aren't following you around, they are simply recording cars that they happen to pass by. They could also have different people do it each time.

Maybe I'm missing something

[sunking2]

So they're giving the government a big database of pictures of license plates and cars. Something they already have when they issued the plate. I just skimmed through the summary but I didn't see anything about tying a person, time, or location as info they are selling. Just that they have these scanners to try to find passing my already defaulted cars.

I just don't see the business model of selling the states info they already have, not that that doesn't mean the state won't buy it anyway.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[onepoint]

then you did not read near the end,
they knew a specific car with a specific plate at a specific location had a high probability of being at that location.

one company collects the data
another sells it back

most likely they have something like a peering agreement.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep your are missing something, it is called location and time associated with each scan.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[Insanity Defense]

Yep your are missing something, it is called location and time associated with each scan.

And the SEQUENCE of the locations so they have the pattern of your movements over the entire time covered by the database. Stalking

Re:Maybe I'm missing something

[Anonymous Coward]

Whining and hyperbole isn't going to change the reality that this isn't stalking and it isn't illegal.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

You know that they are only doing high risk neighbourhoods at the moment. The more their industry grows, the more they will cover. Eventually every inch of road will be monitored by either LeO scanning for crims, repo guys like this, or bail bondsmen.

Between the various private agents operating public functions, we will soon be in the era of total pervasive surveillance.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[DontBeAMoran]

What if we implemented Isaac Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics from the 1950's into the systems?

Re:Though the Feds are prohibited from collecting

[AHuxley]

That allows the feds to talk about under oath before any oversight committee that the US federal databases only contain images of past criminals.
What is for sale on the open market is never mentioned.

Re:so how doS you prevent from scanning your plate

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd gladly do that except for the whole sales tax stuff.

Billions and billions

[Anonymous Coward]

Just picture Carl Sagan saying it.

Cutting your losses on america...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or specifically making these activities illegal in a county you live in. Doesn't help for inter-county or interstate commerce however.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

They are driving thru ALL neighborhoods. Deadbeats live i nearly all neighborhoods in the entire world

It's called a garage

[Anonymous Coward]

Look it up. It hides a whole car, even two cars! Amazing!

I just bought a car

[rsilvergun]

A low mileage 3 yr old car costs about the same as a low mileage 1 year old car. Cars don't start getting cheaper until either the mileage hits 40k+ or the age hits 5 years+. The reason is a car is a necessity in most of America. I had to buy my kid one because her college courses are all over town (major public U no less), they dictate your schedule to you and unless she has mutant teleporting powers I don't know about it's physically impossible for her to get to class. Thanks to 20 years of budget cuts there's not enough slots for all the kids with high GPAs so the school could care less if she can't make it.

Before judging people for buying things they can't afford you should do a bit more research into why they're buying these things. If more people questioned the system instead of blaming people for getting caught up in it we wouldn't have all these problems.

Re:I just bought a car

[Cederic]

Managing your own finances is a basic skill that people should learn.

If your kid can't work out how to cross town without a car of her own then she's fucked for life. You wont be there to throw money at the problem for the next 80 years.

If I can't afford a 1 year old low mileage car then I'll buy a 5 year old high mileage car or a fucking bicycle. If I can afford a 1 year old low mileage car through a loan, then have a change in circumstances that means I can't repay the loan, I'll negotiate with the loan company, look for options, maybe even sell the fucking car.

It's not hard, but I guess your daughter isn't learning these lessons. Top fucking parenting.

Re:I just bought a car

[Anonymous Coward]

"the school could care less if"

The school COULDN'T care less. COULD NOT care less, you fucking dolt. Think it through and pray your daughter succeeds despite you.

Re:I just bought a car

[Anonymous Coward]

Very good. Now tackle "could give a shit" vs. "couldn't give a shit."

Re:How long until scanner-hammers start showing up

[ooloorie]

Law is on the side of the wealthy.

Everything is on the side of the wealthy.

In different words, in a free market, if you do things for your fellow human beings that they find useful, lots of good things come your way.

Not just repo trucks

[xlsior]

In parts of California, they wanted to outfit garbage trucks with license plate readers as well: https://www.mercurynews.com/20...
Even more pervasive, since garbage trucks drive by each and every residential address, every week.

Use this to Dox Politicians

[jaa101]

This tech is cheap enough now. Someone should able to pay people to mount cameras on their cars and busy homes, feeding into a central database. Then they could run a web site charging for database queries. Journalists are going to know the cars of politicians so I bet they'd find such a thing very useful. Not to mention foreign spies (if they haven't already hacked the existing systems). It's going to take something like this to focus minds more on privacy issues in the US. Are there any current US laws against doing this?

Problem?

[TJHook3r]

The govt knows you have a huge outstanding debt and possibly where you were on a particular day. Struggling to see the evil applications of this knowledge.

Billions?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they managed to scan every single license plate in the United States that'd be less than 1 billion, so to claim they scanned "billions" is ludicrous.

Pity the poor repo men

[haruchai]

"For repo companies, one worry is whether they are producing information that others are monetizing"

That's their ONLY worry

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Bing Tsher E]

Derpy little fuck.

No, it would be conspiracy. I am saying a bunch of us choose a five day period when we do it to all these cameras.

They can't afford to pursue 10,000 of us, and the streisand affect would mean the next week there would be 100,000.

Re:How long until scanner-hammers start showing up

[Sir Holo]

Some device that masks your license plate number from the scanner.

ANPR Circumvention.

The decision that the Constitutional restrictions

[Anonymous Coward]

only apply to government offficials, only in their official positions, and the legal decisions that have allowed 'buying information' to not qualify as 'subcontracting jobs' is part of a major sickness in the US. The combination of making traffic offenses 'civil', allowing third parties to maintain red light cameras as a profit making venture, and then colluding with police to charge individuals with a crime has only compounded things. All of those put together, plus the slack granted to Google, Equixfax+Co, and other companies has allowed domestic companies to become, depending on your perspective, either the domestic CIA, or the American STASI, with far more power and capabilities than either example ever possessed within their own mandates or charters.

Ironically enough, the 9th Amendment was supposed to be a catchall to avoid egregious abuses of privacy like this, that didn't qualify under other amendments like the 4th and 5th. But since it didn't explicitly enumerate or restrict powers in a clear and present manner, it has all but been forgotten.

First they came for the Deadbeats....

[Anonymous Coward]

Then they came for me.

Search Limits for the Government?

[Artagel]

The technology presents interesting questions for search and seizure law in the U.S. Currently, in Carpenter v. United States, the Supreme Court is considering a case where warrantless cell phone tower data for over four months is an illegal search. Scotusblog has a page (the transcript is available as audio or video as the "Tr." or "Aud." under the "Argument" heading).

The key to Carpenter is that earlier cases held that there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in the metadata about a phone call since the phone company had it. The problem in this case is how much there was -- basically protracted surveillance via cell towers. Even though your license plate is in plain view on streets, perhaps the government cannot engage in protracted surveillance of it without a warrant.

Re:Search Limits for the Government?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a former freelance news photographer I am up on case-law and laws regarding filming in public.. It's pretty much "settled" in regards to taking photographs in public. There is no 4th amendment issues here for the government. It's no different than a cop sitting in a car following you.

Law enforcement has gone to court countless times defending their actions when trying to seize video of people filming them in public and lost every time.

No one has a reasonable expectation of privacy in public.

But anyways, you mention the government. This is not the government. This is a private company.

Re:Search Limits for the Government?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the government need a warrant to assign someone to follow you around wherever you go?

Offhand, I'd expect the answer to be "No, but it doesn't matter anyway -- it's too expensive unless you have a very good idea that you're following someone 'interesting'".

Cell tower spying makes it cheap now.

My idea

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to have a plate on a vehicle unless it is moving on a public road. Either cover the plate when you park it in you driveway or build a James Bond license rotating plate.
(Interesting enough, the key word for this post was specter).

Re:My idea

[Agripa]

You don't have to have a plate on a vehicle unless it is moving on a public road. Either cover the plate when you park it in you driveway or build a James Bond license rotating plate.

Tell that to people who get tickets for their car parked in their driveway.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[edris90]

Well yeah, that is outrageous. Can't just Live and Let Live, the government always has to pick a fight with people not even trying to interact with it in the first place.

Fuck the Washington Post

[AndyKron]

Fuck the Washington Post.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this might be unpopular around here, but this is illegal under GDPR, so we don't have this in Europe.

But legislation is bad, mmkay?

Counterfeit Plates

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about other states, but Texas has made it impossible for a large fraction (as large as 16%) of the population to get drivers licenses, insurance, inspection stickers and plates. As a result there are a lot of cars on the roads that have fake paper dealer's plates. Fail to pay your car payment? Print a plate. Think that red-light camera might have got you? Print a plate. Not a citizen? Print a plate.

Carry Mud

[oneunixguy]

I guess you can carry mud and hide your plate that way. In southern Ohio you see it all the time.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it outrageous? You live in a society that runs through accountability and taxation. If you don't like that, go find a deserted island somewhere and move there.

It's like you're an entitled child who thinks that everybody owes you something and that you shouldn't have to pull your own weight.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

Derpy little fuck.

Nice. You think of that all by yourself, kid?

No, it would be conspiracy. I am saying a bunch of us choose a five day period when we do it to all these cameras.

Cool. You go first.

They can't afford to pursue 10,000 of us, and the streisand affect would mean the next week there would be 100,000.

LOL, you are delusional.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut the fuck up you cuck. Robots aren't real.

Re:How long until scanner-hammers start showing up

[Anonymous Coward]

If a few people hold 99% of the cards, you only need to worry about those few, and fuck everyone else.

That's not a free market in any tangible sense of the word.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

What? What are you some kind of liberal?

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

Break the law...might work.

That's what you sound like, idiot.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your pla

[Anonymous Coward]

What? License plates are public information I thought.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer to dress in all black and wear a ski mask.

I don't deserve this- but you probably do

[Anonymous Coward]

I dind't vote for licenses plates, drivers licenses, social security numbers, or any government at all. I didn't ask to be schooled by government using stolen funds. I didn't ask to be protected from others by police with funds stolen from others either. No. I was forced against my will to attend a government indoctrination program that most people call a school. Later in life I just went along with it and to this day I regret that. I might be doing well- but it's not because of government. Government is not the answer. Government is what created this problem.

No scan

[Anonymous Coward]

There are See thru covers that distort the image
  so that is results in an unreadable scan.

You can't manage what you don't have

[rsilvergun]

and you can't succeed in a society that's already set you up to fail. This is something I've had a really hard time getting my poorer friends who didn't have the chops for college to understand. They'd live like shit and save every penny and always come up a day late and a buck short. Real wages have been falling for anyone except the top 10% for 40 years. Even in the 90-99% wages have been stagnant. Only the 1% have seen gains, and coincidentally they've been massive and in line with the productivity increases from the bottom 99%. We let them take everything and so they did. These are facts. They're not open for discussion. Google "Wages & Productivity" and read up a few. You're just a troll and I get it. Full of hate and spite because the things you want are out of reach. At least I hope you are, and that you're not one of those professional trolls here to set us Americans at each other's throats for the glory of some nation or another. You've somehow gotten up to +2, which looks like the default /. boost for consistently being modded up, but you've got a low /. number. Low enough that you should be considering retirement if you're a real person. Do you realize the ruling class is going to discard you soon? You're too old, easy to replace. And they see no intrinsic value in human beings like I do (and like the American left does).

But either way Now's the time to get woke. For yourself and everyone else. Again, if you're a reason person and not a troll who bought a low number it's going to be hard. As you get older the part of your brain that lets you empathize with people seems to deteriorate. You'll need reason and logic to see yourself through this....

Re:You can't manage what you don't have

[Cederic]

I'm curious, did you stop for breath while typing that? Must've been hard not to drown on the phlegm and spittle that spewed out with the words.

Financial self control has fuck all to do with social or wealth inequality. Almost nobody is in actual poverty, and there are plenty of safety nets for those that are - even in the US.

Nobody is set up to fail. The US, Europe and vast tracts of the rest of the world put substantial resources into assuring that people get a good education and the basic skills needed to work for a living - for themselves, should they choose.

Some people are too fucking stupid to learn. Some people are too fucking lazy. Some people just want to blame the 1% for all their woes.

The rest of us manage our finances and don't get our car repossessed.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[Hognoxious]

Good luck with that. When you're done, try getting the carbon units to follow the Decalogue.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your pl

[Anonymous Coward]

While the license plate is publicly visible, a record of license number + timestamp is "personally identifiable information".

This doesn't mean you can't monitor traffic, but it does mean you can't record them without permission. Your lease contract could give them permission to track you in this way, but they wouldn't be able to record all vehicles.

Re: so how do you prevent from scanning your plat

[baristabrian]

The poor, you shall have with you, always.