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Scott Pruitt Resigns as EPA Administrator (cnbc.com)

Scott Pruitt's polarizing tenure as head of the Environmental Protection Agency has come to an end. From a report: President Donald Trump tweeted on Thursday that he has accepted Pruitt's resignation. Trump said that the agency's deputy administrator, Andrew Wheeler, will become the acting head of EPA. The departure follows months of scrutiny that gathered momentum following reports that Pruitt had rented a Capitol Hill condominium linked to an energy lobbyist on favorable terms. The revelation exacerbated concerns about the high cost of Pruitt's travel and security detail and triggered a flood of allegations that Pruitt fostered a culture of workplace retaliation, wasteful spending and self-dealing at EPA. The steady flow of negative news stories prompted multiple government investigators to open several inquiries into Pruitt. His EPA now faces about a dozen probes into its spending, ethics and policy decisions. In a statement, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) said, "Good." Further reading: Judge Orders EPA To Produce Science Behind Pruitt's Climate Claims

437 comments

  1. GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just sayin

    1. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and new DOJ leader announced in 3, 2, 1...

    2. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nope

    3. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that story was the kicker in the perception damage control war going on behind the scenes at Trump's sellout administration. Scott was no longer an effective traitor and sellout with 19 active investigations, but a liability.

      3, 2, 1.... Prison, for real.

    4. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd be more than okay with that, too, because Sessions strikes me as a closeted neo-nazi, the way he doesn't give a fuck about basic human rights.
      Law not tempered by mercy is not justice, and untempered law strictly enforced to the letter is barbarism.

    5. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by gtall · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but the new bozo is from the coal industry. Musical chairs, nothing will change...well, the environment will get worse because of these two clowns.

    6. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by DamnOregonian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, the leftists pushed him out, with their massive political power in the current Government.
      Fucking moron.
      Him being gone has nothing to do with leftists, that corrupt shitstain simply crossed a threshold where it was realized that he would start becoming a liability to get *any* middle voters. Pruitt is an example of Trump filling the swamp, and he won because he promised to some desperate people who really didn't like him very much to drain it. He'll need those people if he wants 2020, and if the republicans want 2018.

    7. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "He found a good deal on a condo, but it's "linked" to some firm?"

      He rented a room from a lobbyist who had dealings with the EPA for $50 a night. I'm sure any visitor to Washington could get a similar deal. The bed wasn't great though, others have described it as "a bit swampy".

      You said he didn't do it
      But screw it, Pruitt blew it.

    8. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I like the whole "look at his expensive pens" deal, I don't want the EPA administrator handing a $.50 pen to his worldwide counterparts left over from a job fair.

      I remember when you guys had a fit because Obama put Grey Poupon on a hamburger. And why was Scott Pruitt even dealing with "worldwide counterparts". He was head of the Environmental Protection Agency, not the State Department. Maybe if he'd spent a little less time trying to hook his wife up with a no-work job and a little more time fixing the problem with lead in the drinking water on US domestic military bases, he wouldn't be seen as such a schnorrer.

      So, kindly go fuck yourself

      Anyway, the most fun part of the Pruitt saga was when he would make his underlings book his personal travel expenses and then not reimburse them. The guy wasn't just corrupt, he was corrupt about some of the most petty things imaginable. I'll bet he was taking those $1500 worth of pens and selling them on eBay. He was so corrupt that there should now be a 20-year moratorium on anyone from Oklahoma having a job with the federal government, just to be on the safe side. You know, until we figure out what's going on.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      He rented a room from a lobbyist who had dealings with the EPA for $50 a night. I'm sure any visitor to Washington could get a similar deal. The bed wasn't great though, others have described it as "a bit swampy".

      I suppose he didn't like it either. So he had an aide get him a new one. From guess where?

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    10. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by amicusNYCL · · Score: 0

      I like the whole "look at his expensive pens" deal, I don't want the EPA administrator handing a $.50 pen to his worldwide counterparts left over from a job fair.

      OK, two things: why is the EPA handing pens out to people? They don't have their own pens? And, secondly, isn't there some sort of medium between "$.50 pens left over from a job fair" and $130 pens that he's buying by the dozen? I mean, is the pen market really so fractured that there is nothing for sale between $.50 job fair pens and $130 jewelry store pens?

      Also, the whole"cone of silence." I like the fact that a cabinet position is taken seriously because that is direct in the line of succession, which means keeping up with top secret briefings and emails, as well as having a security detail and considering your travel.

      Oh, I see. So, all other cabinet positions also have "cones of silence" then, and he was just getting up to speed. Right?

      This is part of living in a nation with real enemies.

      Yes. Like Russia.

      The bottom line is the EPA administrates a lot of money to superfund and everything else which lefties have an entire infrastructure built around. He is a threat to that infrastructure and they need him out.

      So you're suggesting that the only people who have a problem with the fact that Pruitt is a wasteful idiot are "lefties?" So, if someone is not a "leftie", then they have no problems at all with Scott Pruitt, correct?

      The action now is to get someone in there who is 100x worse for the staff.

      Why do you want to punish the EPA staff? Or, are you suggesting that you want the president to punish the EPA staff? Or that you think the president is going to punish the EPA staff regardless of what anyone else thinks?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    11. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, that escalated fast!

    12. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Revek · · Score: 1

      My only regret is that the system wouldn't let me mod you +6.

    13. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump has been keeping Pruitt around as a human shield, someone else - i.e. not in his direct family - whom the corruption stories could flow at. He could have cut him loose anytime this past year, but he kept him on because he needed that cover. Now he's decided the time is right to ditch him.

      What's behind that calculation? Well, I'd guess the plan is to use it to blunt the Democrats "corruption" talking point going into the midterms.

    14. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure the pens story was a beat up, but the stories about actual corruption were not. One does not invalidate the other.

    15. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Scott Pruitt probably uses Windows. It's fact check-able. That alone is very telling.

    16. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by MattskEE · · Score: 1

      While thousands of dollars on customized luxury pens and journals is not a single large expense it's part of an overall pattern of wasted of government money in the current administration. I don't think it's necessary for hundreds of dollars in gifts to be handed out to foreign environmental policy heads. This is something the Republicans supposedly care about more than Democrats, though Republicans' actions seem to speak differently while in office.

      I would expect the government to operate efficiently at all levels up to the top. Leadership is by example, and if people see their leaders being wasteful then they're going to want to start being wasteful with taxpayer money too.

      And also important, the current executive policy at the top and at the EPA is deliberately moving us away from a leadership position on the world stage on most matters - military, environment, and democracy to name a few. Our worldwide partners don't care about fancy pens being handed out, they care about what we're doing about the environment, with our alliances, treaties, and with world security and politics. A pen won't magically make them like us.

    17. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I like the whole "look at his expensive pens" deal, I don't want the EPA administrator handing a $.50 pen to his worldwide counterparts left over from a job fair.

      That is a very specific and spelled out crime. And your willingness to accept criminal actions by lawmakers is just an example of the abandonment of law and order by the party that used to run on it.

      Pretty much makes you a criminal in my book. I support actual law and order, and punishing criminals to the maximum extent possible -

      You can bitch about lefties all you want. If a lefdt winger is law abiding, then they deserve to live peacefully. A right winger like yourself who suports lawlessness is a person who needs to be with other criminals. I'm not a leftie either. WhAt is it like to support crime?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    18. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, the leftists pushed him out, with their massive political power in the current Government. Fucking moron. Him being gone has nothing to do with leftists, that corrupt shitstain simply crossed a threshold where it was realized that he would start becoming a liability to get *any* middle voters. Pruitt is an example of Trump filling the swamp, and he won because he promised to some desperate people who really didn't like him very much to drain it. He'll need those people if he wants 2020, and if the republicans want 2018.

      What is unfortunate is that people like makerfixer actually support criminals as long as they pretend to be against those "lefties" that he has a white hot hate for. note - for criminals like makerfixer, a leftie is anyone who disagrees with him or his god on earth who he licks the boots of.. Funny how a far left idea like tarriffs - which are a form of price control - is now a right wing touchstone. And actual criminals like pruitt are defended as patriotic right thinking Americans.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    19. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Don't exagerate! Only 14 active investigations! And a well-known history of acting like an entitled douchebag.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    20. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I'll bet he was taking those $1500 worth of pens and selling them on eBay.

      Either that or giving them away would be a crime. There are very strict limits on the value of souvenirs that can be handed out. Usually defined as the value of a baseball cap or coffee mug. Exceeding that value is considered a potential bribe.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    21. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's 19 if/when (they will, it's a crime) investigate his latest "fake calendar" issue. Yep, they will, 19 and probably more. You're behind.

    22. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by makerfixer · · Score: 2

      How am I supporting a criminal? Do you know what a criminal is? The pens were ordered from the same source as his predecessor and their predecessor, the booth was properly acquired using the acquisition process. Just because they are investigating every fart the guy ever had in office has no consequence on him being a "criminal" in your eyes. I support the idea that the executive of an agency should have broad powers and that the intent of having a staff that works against him/her and launches a campaign of endless, baseless investigations and stirred up controversy is a bad thing for a democracy. I didn't see anyone not able to criticize Trump or Pruitt, of course, criticize people on the other side and lose your job, business, personal relationships, etc... Criticize anything the EPA did prior to Trump (like directly causing several environmental disasters through gross incompetence) and be silenced on a dozen social platforms and accused of being a racist right-wing lunatic...

    23. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by makerfixer · · Score: 1

      That is accepting gifts, not giving them out. Look at how a president signs a bill using a dozen different pens that are then distributed, this is continued at every level of government. The pens came from the same place the EPA has always bought them, everyone in an executive function serves partially as an ambassador... Our generals meet with other NATO generals and others involved in any number of wars games and exchange things back and forth, so do a dozen other government agencies at every level.

    24. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by makerfixer · · Score: 0

      All major government officials hand out some perks to other counterparts and such, its described in any number of the articles on the subject, they came from the same supplier the EPA used under Obama and are the same pen. Every bill that is signed has dozens of pens given out after signing it. The cone of silence is a SCIF, they are required for any secure government communication and are found in every government facility in DC, if you are attending any sort of daily brief then you would need one. Also, if you need secure communications to other agencies or in the event of an emergency, then you need one. Every cabinet member of other person in the line of succession should be able to assume the job instantly. It's not like you get to attend a 2 week "get up to speed" class when something very bad happens. Russia again, any day now they'll show how he and Putin used carrier pigeons to coordinate their attacks on Hillary, just wait, it's coming... Or someone who sat in meeting after meeting listening to the things typed into those leaked emails about how they were going to rig everything against Bernie eventually got fed up and grabbed a thumbdrive... I'm thinking that the people who had control over billions of dollars of settlements, superfund funds, and other cash and were experts on converting it to suit their needs really didn't like that the people who were to lead them had to take a loyalty oath against Trump as republicans or with Hillary as democrats and found themselves universally frozen out of control of these agencies. I think a lot of people had their meal tickets cut off. I would definitely like to see their meal tickets totally cut off and the EPA do real work without causing any more environmental disasters through gross incompetence. No more buddy/buddy "dump your *hit into the great lakes as much as you want Chicago/Milwaukee, we're too busy going after the wrong people who let a silt fence fall down during the rain and took 3 hours to repair it." Look up the biggest environmental crimes in the US and find the government sanctioning them because "they mean well and need a break" I'd like that to stop.

    25. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by makerfixer · · Score: 2

      This is why we need more Republicans and Trump people in office! Suddenly the same thing that was standard practice for at least the last 8 years and probably the last 80 gets looked at through a new lens filter, suddenly its okay to notice it and call it out as wrong and something people want to see stopped! How wonderful, we just need to keep this up for another term and maybe we'll get some where on corruption and reform. or we can have another Democrat in office and suddenly the shade will come down and this will be "perfectly acceptable" At least we can have the conversation now.

    26. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      How am I supporting a criminal? Do you know what a criminal is?

      You.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    27. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course he does. It's the standard OS in in all federal offices. Now what does he use at home for whatever nefarious purposes...?

      Just switched one computer to Mint, myself. For ordinary stuff (web, email, basic Office stuff using Libre) it works fine, and seems to be a little lighter on the batter of the olde laptop than Windows (4-5 hours instead of 3ish). Having a little trouble getting Wine into shape so I can try to install a few Windows-only things I sometimes use.

    28. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? No they don't. Unless it's a landmark legislation, not even Congress member's pens have any gift or auction value. Generals don't go around giving gifts left right and center?!?

    29. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I especially love the people who think it's so important to imprison asylum seekers indefinitely on minor misdemeanor charges (because the law is the law), but official corruption is totally cool because they're doing God's work.

      Hell, the people who are incensed that Hillary Clinton still hasn't been locked up for having a personal email server completely dismiss the fact that half of the current administration does the same thing. Hillary can't be trusted with classified information because she used an insecure server, Trump can use an insecure phone and blab classified intel to our adversaries all he wants because he's the President so it's legal!

      dom

    30. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by DamnOregonian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What's this shit about pens? Why are you throwing up a smoke screen for the man?
      He's currently under 17 ethics violation, not a single one of them has anything to do with some fucking overpriced pens.
      Don't try to purposefully conflate people trying to throw dirt at the man with the very real ethics violation and corruption he's been caught red-handed engaging in.

    31. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      *violation investigations

    32. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just sayin

      The guy caused as much damage as humanly possible to the agency in charge of protecting our environment and most republicans don't care or think it was a great accomplishment.

      The investigations _must_ continue until they are completed fully and all the gory details are exposed. If there was prosecutable criminal conduct then they must be prosecuted and if found guilty jailed.

      I want a live damn feed, if not on the jail cell then on the jail itself that houses all these swamp creatures as a lesson to the next ten generations that positions of public trust are not to be abused and if you do so, you will pay a price.

    33. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is why we need more Republicans and Trump people in office!

      Exactly! This whole ethics things is just stupid. We don't want law-abiding people in office, we want the finest criminals money can buy! I mean how else is my ship going to come in? I figure that any day now I'll get a bit rich and then I want to be able to bribe my way into getting sweet government lucre using ethics violations and then I'll be super rich.

      There's much less chance of me being able to do that if we get rid of Trump and his ilk.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    34. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to look at his lifeless imprisoned eyes and do a little wave.

    35. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't exagerate! Only 14 active investigations! And a well-known history of acting like an entitled douchebag.

      Are we talking about Scott Pruitt or Donald Trump here? Sorry for not being able to keep up.

    36. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, it is said he likes the smell of his own farts.

    37. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      So who gets the bulletproof desk from his office? It is sad that such a tax money waster wasn't fired long ago and instead we had to wait for him to resign. Now what about the many others who waste our money on a daily basis...like someone who travels almost every weekend to Florida with full security detail and has spent 1/3rd of his time in office on a golf course?

    38. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      His boss doesn't care about basic human rights either. C'mon folks, enough of you elected this president, so either stop whining or talk to those who put that national disaster into office. I'm more concerned about the millions who still think the current administration is doing a top job.

    39. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by jbengt · · Score: 1

      The cone of silence is a SCIF, they are required for any secure government communication and are found in every government facility in DC

      There was already a SCIF in the EPA offices, and Pruitt's "cone of silence" didn't meet the requirements for a SCIF.

    40. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      I think we'll see, in a few months' time, that his deputy, Andrew Wheeler, will cause just as much damage, if not more, but fly under the radar, because he will be less scandal-prone than his former boss.

      Admittedly, it would be difficult to be more scandal-prone than Pruitt.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    41. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure thing. Now, just climb into the nice oven.

    42. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      The guy wasn't just corrupt, he was corrupt about some of the most petty things imaginable. I'll bet he was taking those $1500 worth of pens and selling them on eBay. He was so corrupt that there should now be a 20-year moratorium on anyone from Oklahoma having a job with the federal government, just to be on the safe side. You know, until we figure out what's going on.

      What's going on is that Oklahoma is all about the corrupt good 'ol boy system stealing of things. They stole the land from the indians to make the state. Sooners stole the stolen land from the boomers. The state capital was stolen by OKC from Edmonds at gun point. The state capital was supposed to have a dome but the money for it was stolen and only recently was the dome built. Growing up the entire educational system was about stealing money for the football teams. It happened in my high school, the principal took all the money out of the school fund that was put there by honor students for their trip to Paris to throw a pizza party for the football team that never won a game. I got to college and found out from friends that similar things had happened at high schools all across the state. My roommate in the national guard had all sorts of stories of good 'ol boy system of promotions for political favors and stealing NG money including pensions and life insurance for Republican re-election campaigns. When I found out that it was an Oklahoman that had bought and stolen the Sonics from Seattle, I knew exactly how they went about stealing them even before I found out there had been lawsuits over it. The entire state was about the oligarchy of good 'ol boys enriching themselves at everybody else's expense. It's just one of the reasons why I fled that state as soon as I could.

    43. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The entire state was about the oligarchy of good 'ol boys enriching themselves at everybody else's expense.

      Decades ago, when I finished my undergraduate studies, I was recruited by Phillips Petroleum in Bartlesville. Earning some real money sounded good at the time, so I let them fly me down there to interview. I spent a few days and got a look around and said, "Thanks, but no way." I went back to grad school and it was the best decision I ever made. There are some things that are worth more than money.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    44. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Yes, the leftists pushed him out, with their massive political power in the current Government.

      Fucking moron.

      Gee, when Alex Jones finds out you called him fucking moron, he'll be even more furious then usual.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    45. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cone of silence is just to keep rank and file EPA from finding out how hes destroying the organization from the inside out. No SCIF needed as average employees of EPA aren't that organized and actual enemies of the EPA are his friends.

    46. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heil Hitlary! Death to the American working class! Heil Hitlary!

    47. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing there's no corrupt, inbred, apartheid-loving oligarchy in Norcal...

    48. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      All major government officials hand out some perks to other counterparts and such, its described in any number of the articles on the subject, they came from the same supplier the EPA used under Obama and are the same pen. Every bill that is signed has dozens of pens given out after signing it.

      And the choices are either $.50 left over job fair pens, or $130 pens?

      The cone of silence is a SCIF, they are required for any secure government communication and are found in every government facility in DC, if you are attending any sort of daily brief then you would need one.

      OK, so you must be suggesting that the EPA did not have a SCIF, and it was Pruitt's brilliant leadership that brought them up to speed. Right? The EPA had no SCIF before Pruitt was there, correct? These rooms and buildings are all over Washington, some even mobile, and can be set up quickly, but you're saying the EPA never had on and this expense by Pruitt was necessary?

      Russia again, any day now they'll show how he and Putin used carrier pigeons to coordinate their attacks on Hillary, just wait, it's coming...

      Just to make a point clear: do you believe that Putin and Russia have actively tried to subvert democratic processes in the US and Europe? That's a simple question, it only needs a yes or no answer. Congress and the US intelligence community believe that they have. I'd like to know what you think, whether you agree with Congress and the 17 US intelligence agencies, or whether you think Putin is a fantastic guy, believe me, just the best. Almost as nice of a guy as Kim Jong-Un.

      I think a lot of people had their meal tickets cut off.

      A lot more people need their meal tickets cut off. People in Congress. People like McConnell and Pelosi.

      I would definitely like to see their meal tickets totally cut off and the EPA do real work without causing any more environmental disasters through gross incompetence.

      Agreed. This is one reason why Pruitt leaving is a good thing.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    49. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Heil Hitlary! Death to the American working class! Heil Hitlary!

      An adult beverage is in order.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    50. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      Sweet. Maybe he'll label me an enemy of the people.

    51. Re:GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the new bozo is from the coal industry. Musical chairs, nothing will change...well, the environment will get worse because of these two clowns.

      Ahh, but he's a Washington insider who knows how to keep his deeds unnoticed. Much better for Trump.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    52. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How am I supporting a criminal? Do you know what a criminal is?

      You.

      Quick! Somebody call the Thought Police!

    53. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      How am I supporting a criminal? Do you know what a criminal is?

      You.

      Quick! Somebody call the Thought Police!

      I thought that would be your thought.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    54. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by tbannist · · Score: 1

      While thousands of dollars on customized luxury pens and journals is not a single large expense it's part of an overall pattern of wasted of government money in the current administration. I don't think it's necessary for hundreds of dollars in gifts to be handed out to foreign environmental policy heads. This is something the Republicans supposedly care about more than Democrats, though Republicans' actions seem to speak differently while in office.

      Well, the simple fact seems to be that Republicans no longer care about anything except beating the Democrats. It's sad to see such a political party with such a grand history reduced to such a sorry state.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    55. Re: GOOD RIDDANCE TURD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is he a turd? Why donâ(TM)t leftists actually state facts to back up arguments?

  2. The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scott acknowledges that 19 ethics investigations is about all he's able to deny at one time, due to limitations of fingers and toes. The boob sellout finally had enough - now let his accountability phase begin. #Lock the bitch up

    1. Re:The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's too bad, because the EPA was a swamp rat's nest of all these problems before Pruitt ever got there. It needs to be reigned in. But it was made bad by Obama, and now made worse by Trump. Baby boomer presidents so far suck ass.

    2. Re:The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Whatever you say Ivan.

    3. Re:The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oleg. The name is Oleg.

    4. Re: The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EPA sucked before Obama. Whole thing needs to be shuttered.

    5. Re: The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you corporatist sellout faggot coal mine intellects need to shutter the fuck up and go back underground, one way or another. The EPA will be reborn hard under the next legitimate Potus - and you deserve the gallows meanwhile, traitor.

    6. Re: The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good one Dmitry! Your check is in the mail

    7. Re:The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      43 EPA Scandals Under the Obama Administration

      https://lists.grabien.com/list...

    8. Re:The swamp is draining itself slowly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like Noleg, as in no leg to stand on.

  3. Trump's version of swamp draining... by shilly · · Score: 2, Funny

    Fill it so high that America gags, then drain it the tiniest bit and try to get everyone to ignore the stink of dried out shit around their necks.

    1. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Nidi62 · · Score: 0

      Fill it so high that America gags, then drain it the tiniest bit and try to get everyone to ignore the stink of dried out shit around their necks.

      Maybe now that Pruitt is gone the EPA can finally do something about cleaning up the shit?

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by shilly · · Score: 1

      Chance would be a fine thing.

    3. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe get somebody with enough of a scientific background to recognize that swamps serve a vital ecological role, whereas the CESSPOOL that is being built in DC under the current administration only serves to pollute and kill everything around it

    4. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is the swamp. He's done nothing but appoint rich, unqualified morons to head various things.

      They've all proven to know nothing at all about the stuff they're in charge of, and mostly are just looking to enrich themselves. And they lie in public just as much as he does (like about $31K dining sets they claim they don't remember approving).

      Trump and his idiot cronies are really just sticking their fingers in the pie and giving themselves all sorts of perks, and this includes his shit-stain of a family.

      Anybody who thought an asshole billionaire would be doing anything but making life better for his asshole billionaire friends was a fool from the get go.

      Just remember, America ... when this clown is done being in office, the damage he's done to your international relationships won't be easily fixed. We sure as fuck won't be rushing to make nice with you.

    5. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look up Andrew Wheeler and then find something to cheer yourself up.

      Wheeler is swamp.

      Who will keep Scott Pruitt moist now?

    6. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize simply for not being Bush, imagine what Trumpâ(TM)s successor will be awarded.

    7. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I doubt it. Sounds like the senate has narrowly approved the agency's deputy administrator, Andrew Wheeler, to become the acting head. From what I can find he's a long time fossil-energy lobbyist that's completely on board with the current trajectory, but has a lot more political savvy than Pruitt.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    8. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by chadenright · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What worries me are not the Americans who are horrified at what Trump is doing to our country. I'm far, far more worried about the Americans who think Trump is doing an OK job, the economy is rosy, and he is keeping all his campaign promises to them. Because those are the people who are gonna vote Trump again in 2020 and I'm not sure the US can survive another 4 years of him.

    9. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest award is not being Trump, the obese orange traitor of 2016 who will die in prison a disgrace for all to see and mock until the end of human history.

    10. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A country that is once again screwed up by the previous administration.

    11. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by thomn8r · · Score: 2

      The NSA would like to know how you found out about Project CESSPOOL

    12. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I firmly believe that many of Trump's base are his base not because they like Trump so much, but because they hated Obama and all Democrats and used their ballots for revenge, and to hell what it did to the Country, let it all burn to the ground so far as they're concerned; it's the ugly underside of having a democratic republic, nothing prevents people from abusing their right to vote in such a way that they use it to cause damage just out of spite. I also firmly believe that many of Trump's supporters are in so deep now that they don't think they can do and about-face without losing everything, so they continue to hold their noses, and that members of the GOP who are suddenly retiring from office are doing so because they can't hold their noses anymore, but aren't going to 'sell out' their own party (although ironically, they did exactly that by supporting Trump as a candidate).

      So far as 2020 goes: If you want to help, you've got to convince people you know who are Independents to register as Democrat, even if it's just an expedient, and if you know any Republicans who also just can't hold their noses any longer against how much Trump and the GOP stink, get them to do the same. It's what I saw I had to do, and it's probably the only way to get him out of office in 2020 (unless Mueller turns up something even the GOP can't ignore). People will say you're asking them to be traitors to their principles, but desperate times call for desperate measures; tell them that at least this way they can help get a viable Democratic candidate on the ballot who isn't Hillary Clinton (because she's a guaranteed loss).

    13. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *slow golf clap*

      And there, boys and girls, is how you do Soviet-style agitprop
      1. Push whatever big lie you have been pushing all along
      2. Indicate that it was your opposition who was using the techniques that you continue to use
      3. Make outrageous claims that those who are working to keep you from destroying them, are in fact the ones doing it...

      but wait, there is more and that comes when the political/media enemies start dying unexpectedly. An advanced course will include discussion of the Anthony Bourdain murder (false-flag support for murder claim by right wing nutjobs to discredit any investigation, summary police investigation and disposal of remains, tightly controlled media coverage with ZERO discussion allowed, etc...)

      bravo

    14. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to work a bit on the coherence of your thoughts or take less drugs.

    15. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the democrat platform for 2020 beyond #resist and abolish ice?

    16. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is he not doing an "ok" job?

    17. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by shanen · · Score: 1

      I should have expressed my concurrence here, instead of wasting it on an AC, notwithstanding the moderation of his post into visibility...

      For now I'll just reiterate that we need to divide and conquer Trump's marching morons in a way similar to how they divided and conquered America.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    18. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 0

      They want (and NEED) to 're-invent their brand', and it's been a long time coming.
      Like I said above: if you're not Blue right now, make that happen, and encourage others to change, too, even if it's just for the midterms this year and for 2020.
      Things are horribly out-of-balance right now (imagine a washing machine not loaded correctly on 'spin' cycle: self-destructing), and the only way to GET them back in balance is this -- or get Democrats to all re-register as Republican for 2020, and have them tip the balance away from Trump to someone who will either lose, or is a moderate, but that's a tougher strategy to make work when the GOP will support re-election regardless.

      ..yes, and I KNOW, I'm advocating what sounds like pretty dirty tactics. But YES, it's come to that. Sink or swim. At this point you're either part of the solution, or you really are part of the problem, if you know what I mean. Can't afford to have any fence-sitters anymore.

    19. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the bright side, the acronym for "Trump Is The Swamp" is TITS and we all love tits!!!1!

    20. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Instead of offering a platform you give "dirty tactics" (your words) and meanderings about washing machines with divisive rhetoric (with us or against us)?

      Welp, I am sold. Who needs a platform when you have "dirty tactics" and insane rants! #bluewave for real.

      Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you; The state of the democratic party. Why give a platform when you can rant insanely assuming people think exactly like you!

    21. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure he meant more swamp draining in Florida for his real estate development. Trump isn't very good with metaphors.

    22. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Eh. I've come to the sad realization that Trump's supporters are just actually pieces of shit.

      I want to believe in basic human decency but in almost 40 years on this earth I've learned that a good 35% of people are just awful human beings and it's only the order of society that keeps them from harming you.

      So fuck 'em.

    23. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Nidi62 · · Score: 0

      That's the wrong way to go about it because it won't fix anything long term. The 2 parties will drift back to the fringes over time. It's inevitable with a 2 party system that the radicals will come to dominate. The correct fix is to take all those disillusioned and fed up people, the independents and moderates, and back a strong 3rd party. The 3rd party doesn't even have to win. It just has to have a large enough support base that for either of the other 2 parties to win they have to make a deal with and court the supporters of the third party. This would create a moderating influence.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    24. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Trump is standing up to the world

      Yeah! Those fucking Canadians have had it too easy for too long, what with them always helping us!

      You're just mad because you want to see America fail.

      This makes me sad because I believe that many Trump supporters actually believe things like this about people who disagree with them. There are way too many people in this country who think they have a monopoly on love for their country.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    25. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Insightful

      or get Democrats to all re-register as Republican for 2020

      Or maybe actual progressives need to form their own party, actual small-government conservatives need to form their own party, and let the "Democrats" and "Republicans" twist in the wind wondering why no one likes them any more.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    26. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ok, dumb, troll or shill, which is it?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    27. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      Well hold up there.

      Trump is doing an OK job

      Trump is dismantling the EPA and FCC. Taking away all their money, power, and authority to do anything. I think that sucks. But there is a legitimate political viewpoint that we don't need the government to limit pollution or to regulate communications. I think that viewpoint is bullshit. But they've been squaking about this long enough and loud enough that it's a political issue and... hey, they got a candidate in the white-house. Let them try. At WORST, we will have 4 years of disruption in systems that take FAR more than 4 years to steer. We will be able to point at all the god-damned bullshit that happened under his system and... make political statements. Point out how full of shit the opposition is. That they had their chance, we tried it their way, and it didn't work.

      And... these two aspects aside, there are a lot of racist asshats who want to throw all the immigrants in a box. They think he's doing great.

      And give credit where credit is due. He's made progress with N. Korea. There's a CHANCE he won't bungle it. I think the guy's just a bully and he managed to bully Kim into action. A nuclear game of chicken. The sort of game where you only really have to worry if the other guy is completely crazy. Which oh look, we've got that guy. If reunification happens, it's going to be WEIRD. There will be statues of Trump as a man of peace.

      the economy is rosy

      Um... It is. The current state is good. The stock market is up, unemploymenet is down, bonds are down but that's a bigger problem than Trump. There was a definate and clear "trump bump" at the end of 2016. Stocks surged. Stocks are more rocky in 2018, but they're not down. But unemployment is down so low that it's a problem for companies. The gig economy is shrinking because people can go get real jobs (hurrzah).

      The prognosis is more like "We're shitting bricks over the prospect of a trade war with.... EVERYONE". Literally self-imposed sanctions. It's ridiculous. A republican pushing for tarrifs. What kind of bizarro world is this? (It's one where the poor working-class republican voting masses got a leader elected as opposed to rich republican businessmen. Tariffs help local production despite being massivly harmful to the economy.) And so stocks are skittish, but that hammer hasn't dropped yet.

      and he is keeping all his campaign promises to them

      Pft, WHICH campaign promises? The guy bullshitted off the cuff and spoke out both sides of his head. And half of that was so ridiculous no one believed they were real. And then he did a few of those, to our collective facepalm.

      But here you go. From politifact, who is sadly not nearly as unbiased as they used to be. If his haters only think he's broken 7%, while half are in the works or kept... Trump supporters might have point. Even Obama took most of his two terms fighting for health care reform, and had some shitty compromises in the process.

      Also, who are the poor bastards that have to go through his campaign trail transcripts and try and pin down what his actual statements were?

      I'm not sure the US can survive another 4 years of him.

      Do not think the USA is so weak and fragile that Trump is an existential threat. No matter how bad a job he does with his policies, we will survive. This is like terrorism. No matter what a group of people do out in a desert on the other side of the globe, it will not end the USA. 3000 corpses and some lost real-estate, with no disrespect to the dead, wasn't the end of us. The only thing we had to fear is fear itself (and we holy shit we flubbed that one and allowed ourselves to be terrified). Trump would have to initiate global thermonuclear war to actually bring down the USA. He's got that button, and he's pointed at it a couple times, but the odds of him actually pushing it are slim. Even then, the world's nuclear arsenal isn't what it used to be. I think most governments would go, but it wouldn't be an extinction event.

    28. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just remember, America ... when this clown is done being in office, the damage he's done to your international relationships won't be easily fixed. We sure as fuck won't be rushing to make nice with you.

      The problem is that the half who voted for him don't care about those international relationships, and the rest of us are holding on for dear life.

    29. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 0

      Respectfully: That's a bunch of crap. I was Independent for, what, at least 30 years? What did it get me? Having to 'vote my conscience' by giving it to the Green Parthy candidate, so my conscience was clean? How many others did the same, and look what it got us? Nope, nope, NOPE, at this point any 3rd-party votes are votes thrown away, we DO have a de-facto 2-party system, and if we want Trump to be a one-term president (or less; Mueller, I'm looking at YOU) then we've got to all pull together and help steer the floundering ship that is the DNC into a non-Hillary candidate that actually has a chance -- and so far as I'm concerned if you're not part of *THIS* solution, then you're part of the problem. Furthermore you need to get off the fence this November and vote for viable Democrat candidates running for Congress so we can see if Congress for starters can be re-balanced; having a GOP majority on every gods-be-damned thing is a large part of the problems right now.

      So, just to re-iterate: Get off the fence and register as Democrat, buddy, at least until some balance is restored. After that do what you want.

    30. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Fill it so high that America gags, then drain it the tiniest bit and try to get everyone to ignore the stink of dried out shit around their necks.

      Trump's version of swamp draining was simple, he drained the swamp into his administration.

    31. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh stop it. You're fucking embarrassing yourself. Morons said the same shit about Bush, and we were just fine. So cut the melodramatic performance for your fellow art students.

    32. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The correct fix is to take all those disillusioned and fed up people, the independents and moderates, and back a strong 3rd party.

      Wrong. Your fix doesn't change anything. The problem is caused by the first past the post voting system used by the US, it pretty much guarantees there can only be 2 viable parties at one time. Here's a great video that explains why this is the case. The voting system needs to change to fix all the problems caused by 2 party rule. Unfortunately, the very people that have the power to initiate a change like that are the very people that benefit from the current system so this is never going to change. Better just get used to only having a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

    33. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe now that Pruitt is gone the EPA can finally do something about cleaning up the shit?

      I know. It's really thick in San Francisco what with all the homeless victims of Progressivism.

    34. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump voters aren't about raising anyone else up, they're dead enders who are about making damn sure all those (insert anyone who isn't lilly white here) have it worse than they do.

      Lyndon Johnson nailed it over fifty years ago and it's just as true today in a frightening number of people: "I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it. If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you picking his pockets. Hell, give him somebody to look down on and he'll empty his pockets for you."

      But don't you care call them deplorable...

    35. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To add to the sibling's point: the US has a de facto two-party system. In practice it's not quite as bad as it looks as the two parties each have multiple factions inside them that the primaries chose between. But to have an actual multi-party system in the US requires changing the way our voting systems work (a major piece being to eliminate first-past-the-post). And that's not happening before 2018.

      If you want not-Trump in power, then voting for Democrats in 2018 and 2020 is your only realistic choice. If your state's primary hasn't happened yet, then you still have a choice in which Democrat to vote for. If you want not-Trump in power and want to be excited about who you're voting for... take a look at the platforms of the Democrats running in your area, maybe you'll find something you like. I assure you they have things to say other than complaining about Trump; the news just likes talking about Trump because that's what gets clicks.

      Really, given how poor voter turn-out is in the US, I'd say just voting and making sure everyone else votes is pretty important, no matter who you're voting for.

    36. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After that do what you want.

      What if I want the democrats to lose at monumental levels this November for a good laugh? Because honestly, right now I can't come up with anything that would be more funny than seeing them lose after doubling down on their insanity.

    37. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      No, no, and HELL NO! That will just water things down and make it that much harder to bring back some balance!

    38. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'm willing to burn the entire United States to the ground just for a laugh!

      Kill yourself.

    39. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by bjdevil66 · · Score: 0

      I'm a GOP voter that voted for Trump but it wasn't only out of anger. I said, "To hell with common sense and safety. If I'm going to vote for REAL change - I'd rather take a huge gamble and hope for a possible big payout (vs. a total disaster) with a President Trump than voting for the consummate insider politician and four more years of growing federal gridlock and corruption.

      Like President Obama, he hired some politically-extreme amateurs to his staff. Hopefully he'll continue to correct course and dump the remaining bad apples like Pruitt at the EPA (Ex. the Verizon-trained assclown chairman at the FCC and the completely worthless ideologue that's intentionally running the CFPB into the ground to kill it.)

    40. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What the fuck dude?

      The economy is positively booming with unemployment at its lowest level since the 1960s. Economists are worried about a breakout in inflation on account of companies having to increase wages so much to attract workers.

      Trump isn't doing an okay job, he's doing a fantastic job and is actually delivering on his campaign promises. You're just worried that his approval ratings are steadily increasing as more and more people come to realise what a good job he's doing.

    41. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that was what you and the democrats were doing with washing machines and abolishing ice.

      At least we don't have dozens of examples of democrat policies in cities that have been under democrat control for decades highlighting the poor policies of democrats. Oops. I bet you live in one of those cities with a monopoly of power for the democrats and you still blame the GOP.

    42. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The appointees seem to be rich, but that's nothing new in politics. What's more new is that essentially every one of these appointees seem intent on dismantling government. Especially those department and agency heads who were known before being appointed to be opposed to the existence of their respective departments and agencies.

      As a public official the first rule is to never abuse the office for personal gain; you are not a CEO of a business wasting money from profits, but a public servant who is wasting taxpayer funds. And yet too many of these people, including Pruitt, were actively engaged in waste which should go against every conservative instinct.

      After the election I was quite expecting the Republican part to split apart. Those true conservatives upholding fiscal or morale values would have been to disgusted with the administration to stick around. And yet surprisingly they all seem to have circled their wagons around Trump. What a bunch of hypocrites; though as politicians the term is redundant. They're writing their party platform on tissue paper so that it's easy to tear up later. The few remaining party members who are sticking to their ideals also seem to be retiring as well.

    43. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Wait, where are you getting your news? Trump seems to not be putting America first; he's going to ruin the economy with his tariffs, protecting a few economic interests at the expense of everyone else. He's a compulsive liar and it's extremely obvious to everyone else in the world, and this is turning America into the world's laughing stock. There's nothing to stand up to the world over here, we are and were being treated fairly by most countries. Especially the countries that he's most pissed about are American's closest friends, and meanwhile he's cozing up to Putin. America's interests should be fair trade and global cooperation. As for strengthening the border, Obama has deported more people than Trump has. He's not putting many people back to work and his actions are going to lead to a lot of job losses.

      American doesn't need to be great again, it was already great.

    44. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are way too many people in this country who think they have a monopoly on love for their country.

      I don't think I have a monopoly of love for the US. I do think that the Democrats hate it, because they do. Obama went on an apology tour. They routinely attack the core pillars of American society. They hate America and the American Dream. They're not even subtle about it. They happily sell out American workers to help foreigners.

      This is why Trump won in 2016, why the so-called "blue wave" isn't really happening, and why Trump will win re-election in 2020 and why we'll probably see another Trump in the White House in 2024.

    45. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      I think there are a lot of people who think love means always agreeing. Instead, look at the country like a crazy uncle. Sure you can love the uncle, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with everything he says or does. If you've got a relative you love that's hooked on opiates you don't sit back and say "good for her, doing what she wants whenever she wants!", instead you try to help that relative out.

      The whole foundation of this country begins with disagreeing. Thomas Jefferson said he loved Great Britain but could no longer bear to be ruled by its government. We should treat it as our fundamental civic duty to bitch and complain when we disagree with the government! Anyone who tells others to shut up and stop criticizing the government is not being patriotic. "My country right or wrong" is a terrible and ignorant motto.

    46. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or maybe actual progressives need to form their own party,

      maybe water runs uphill

      yes you really are that stupid

      maybe people are total cretins when it comes to understanding human behavior

    47. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      That's the problem with Democrats, they aren't very good at getting their act together. As Will Rogers once said, "I am not a member of any organized political party, I am a Democrat."

    48. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This generally happens because of the primary system. Party members compete against each other for the nomination and this tends to favor those with the ideology closest to the party faithful who bother to come out and vote even when it's not a general election. And campaign donations are always coming from the true believers. In general elections there is more of a tendency for things to become more moderate. Most of the populace aren't on the extremes, not even within a particular party.

      This does vary over time though, sometimes the parties get too far apart, and at other times they have significant overlap.

    49. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      What worries me are not the Americans who are horrified at what Trump is doing to our country. I'm far, far more worried about the Americans who think Trump is doing an OK job, the economy is rosy, and he is keeping all his campaign promises to them. Because those are the people who are gonna vote Trump again in 2020 and I'm not sure the US can survive another 4 years of him.

      America has said that about every president in living memory.

    50. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I'm independent, but I rarely vote for third party candidates. The reason being is that I'm a moderate centrist, and there is no third party for us. Most third parties tend to be full of strict ideologues, true believers, and those upset that the mainstream parties aren't far enough left or right. Sometimes the third parties are just loonies, and sometimes they have too many litmus tests.

      What it does mean is that sometimes I vote Democrat and sometimes I vote Republican, and it's not uncommon that I will vote some of each on the same ballot.

    51. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      or get Democrats to all re-register as Republican for 2020

      That's how we got Trump - Democrats games the Republican primary to make the actual republicans lose to Trump...who in turn had been a life-long democrat until it was politically expedient to run as a Republican because he wasn't allowed to run against Clinton.

    52. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      In parliamentary systems you tend to get multiple viable parties. These then form a governing coalition after the election. In the US what we get are coalitions forming within the two major parties; often forming between elections or during primaries.

      This is why our parties seem to screwed up. They often don't have easily stated core values, because they're trying to appeal to multiple factions simultaneously. It's absurd that you're expected to know all about someone's political views just by asking a single question, and yet that's what we've ended up with.

    53. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inevitable? The US has had its current two parties for 150 years, and the vast majority of that time it's produced centrist (for the time) presidents and leaders. Heck, if you look at his views in aggregate, Trump is a centrist. It's one of the brickbats his primary opponents tried to use against him - in vain, because it turns out "being a centrist" isn't actually a bad thing.

      The problem with Trump isn't that he's an extremist - not ideologically, at least. It's that he's a gangster. Who now has the power to protect people from the law.

    54. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I just want a centrist moderate party that is willing to work with those from other parties. Yes, I know it's unrealistic, but we should all be allowed our fantasies.

    55. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by jwhyche · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with your thinking here. The truth is Trump is actually doing a good job as president. I know so many people around here are so badly infected with TDS that they can't see that. One more piece of news too, unless Trump decides not to run in 2020 he is going to win a second term by a land slide.

      You are welcome for these unpopular but undisputed truths.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    56. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I don't think the economy is good. Unemployment is higher than the official numbers, it ignores underemployment, and a rosy stock market does not mean things are going well for the average worker. Next year when the middle class can't get their mortgage interest deduction I expect to see a lot more belt tightening.

    57. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there a Nobel Decency Prize?

    58. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by speederaser · · Score: 1

      America has said that about every president in living memory.

      Famous last words. "All the SRBs showed damage in cold weather and we've never had a problem."

      The folks who said that were pretty damn smart. Can't say that about this president.

    59. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by chadenright · · Score: 1

      What happened to the America that believed in one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, that I used to pledge allegiance to as a kid? We are now divided; liberty is a vanishing luxury available to only a few, and Justice is only interested if you pay cash up front. That's why we saw a Trump victory in 2016, because too many people no longer even pretend to adhere to a basic set of moral standards, and they don't care if he's a slimy scumbag; that's just the type of person they like. They don't care if he's bought and paid for, because they are too. They don't care if they violate the basic human rights of their "enemies", and anyone who isn't just like them is an enemy. If our nation succumbs to that temptation, to become the next tyranny attempting to oppress the world, the world is going to answer with fire and death, and unfortunately, as much as I love the US, that is going to be the correct answer to where we're going.

    60. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

      Just remember, America ... when this clown is done being in office, the damage he's done to your international relationships won't be easily fixed. We sure as fuck won't be rushing to make nice with you.

      I hope you're talking in the context of American govt and not the citizenry. Most of us are decent, hard working and moral people - just like the rest of the world.

      It's the shit-stains that seem to relentlessly crave money, power and ultimately control over others. It's like they're caught in an infinite loop, simply needing more - to fulfill some unfulfillable void that their past had stamped out of them for some reason or another. Neglect, abandonment, regret, what have you.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    61. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure the US can survive another 4 years of him.

      I'm pretty sure we won't be able to survive the first 4.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    62. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like President Obama, he hired some politically-extreme amateurs to his staff. Hopefully he'll continue to correct course and dump the remaining bad apples like Pruitt at the EPA (Ex. the Verizon-trained assclown chairman at the FCC and the completely worthless ideologue that's intentionally running the CFPB into the ground to kill it.)

      "Remaining bad apples"? What good Apples are there, except maybe SecDef?

      Ben Carson? Wilbur ("The Shortseller") Ross? Dancin' Rick Perry?

    63. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      and it's not uncommon that I will vote some of each on the same ballot.

      Wonder how many Americans actually do that?
      Seems it is one problem with the American system, having one election for everything.
      Here, I have 3 elections, of which 2 are just voting for one representative, often with different parties at the Provincial and Federal levels and at the municipal level, there are no parties, at least in most municipalities.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    64. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by mapkinase · · Score: 2

      Or, maybe, they did not like what Obama did to the country ao much that they decided that wven Trump is better than another Dem establishment lackey

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    65. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by dryeo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Doesn't work, whichever 3rd party that replaces one of the main stream ones will just have all the members of the main stream one move to the new party.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    66. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One day, if you ever wise up, you'll look in the mirror and realize that the piece of shit was you.

    67. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize simply for not being Bush, imagine what Trumpâ(TM)s successor will be awarded.

      The keys to Emerald City?

    68. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're just mad because you want to see America fail.

      This makes me sad because I believe that many Trump supporters actually believe things like this about people who disagree with them.

      There *are* people who want to see America fail and are upset Trump is taking a sharp pro-America approach. I've met them. They have literally told me this much. It's not like strong anti-American sentiment is something novel or undocumented.

      Is the number of people who're like this statistically significant? Can't objectively say, and painting dissenters that way with a wide brush is likely wrong... but c'mon, you know those people're out there, and the response is apt in some situations.

    69. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just remember, America ... when this clown is done being in office, the damage he's done to your international relationships won't be easily fixed. We sure as fuck won't be rushing to make nice with you.

      Tough talk amigo.

      While I will be the first to admit that some damage mitigation steps are in USA future, do not presume to school us on the workings of our nation.

      Perhaps if you ROW lame-brains would stop making refugees of your people or refrain from turning your religious squabbles into excuses for genocide or desist from corruption long enough for a few of your compatriots to climb out of poverty or abandon the greed that drives you to traffic in drugs and counterfeiting and intellectual theft, some of our troubles would disappear. I'd like to live long enough to just once see a despotic regime ousted by its own people and replaced with a workable constitutional democracy without requiring military intervention on the part other democratic nations.

      The only things that ever made America great was its people largely adhering to higher principals, their standing together in times of difficulty and their readiness to sacrifice in assisting one another. Everything else is BS.

      There is no reason to believe that our government will not collapse (as has every one in history) under the influence of the greedy and the corrupt and the ones who would be pharaohs (both candidates last election). We're doing what we can, and will vote as we see fit. Meanwhile if you ROW guys would get your own houses in order, then when our inevitable fall happens, maybe you will have the chance to help us out for a change.

    70. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You're just mad because you want to see America fail.

      No, we're sad because for the first time it actually looks like a possibility.

    71. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >one nation under God,

      Which one?

      >indivisible, with liberty and justice for all,

      Highest incarceration rate country.

      > liberty [...] pledge allegiance to

      mmh, children indoctrination is freedom.

    72. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Maxwell'sSilverLART · · Score: 1

      "My country right or wrong" is a terrible and ignorant motto.

      No, it really isn't...if you give the complete quote:

      "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right, if wrong, to be put right."

      Amazing how that second half changes things.

      --
      Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
    73. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot #impeachtrump.

    74. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by shilly · · Score: 1

      Entirely possible. There's a lot of fuckwits out there, after all

    75. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck sakes. How are you people so fucking stupid? A trade war and a ballooning deficit create feel-good now at the expense of the future. And not the far future, either. It's going to go shitty pretty soon, and then fucking awful soon after.

    76. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I liked Obama for the most part, but that Nobel Prize was a friggin' bad joke.

    77. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Those fucking Canadians have had it too easy for too long, what with them always helping us!

      Sorry.

    78. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fuck that. The Democrats are completely culpable for letting Trump sweep the leg. They essentially sat on the floor with a hammer and smashed themselves repeatedly on the leg until they couldn't stand on it, then taunted the Republicans on election day to dare to try it.

      Both parties are broken beyond repair at this point. Maybe, just maybe, this is our chance at getting a decent third party/independent candidate elected. Or hell, possibly see the creation of a third political party altogether. Just something to shake up the neanderthal mentality that the political parties are like sports teams and we have to hold the line against the other side.

    79. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by jbengt · · Score: 1

      . . . until it was politically expedient to run as a Republican because he wasn't allowed to run against Clinton.

      It was expedient to run as a Republican because the Democrats wouldn't fall for his lies. Oh, and, the Democrats had a black president named Obama - that would be something profitable to run against. Starting with shouting "show your birth certificate" even after it was proven he was born in Hawaii.

    80. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by j0uSt · · Score: 0

      The Trump train will be running for 8 years.. no matter what you lefties think.

      Lest you not forget:

      https://lists.grabien.com/list...

      --
      -- j0uSt
    81. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by j0uSt · · Score: 0

      You just described the Democratic party to a T. They would rather the USA burn to the ground than see Trump succeed.

      --
      -- j0uSt
    82. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironic, since it's exactly what leftists have been doing for years. After all, Marx had some great ideas to a leftist, did he not?

    83. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you should think about why half the country essentially cast the agent orange protest vote. Consider how they must have felt about the democratic party to do this.
      Protip: It isn't about racism. Kick that shit out of your head.

      It was about the democratic party's casual rejection of all American cultural values in favor of hedonism and purely emotional legislation. It was about blanket calling half of america deplorable. It was about telling us that we're the bad guys, and that the "privilege" borne from hard work under western culture is immoral because some other people don't have as good a culture and can't work as effectively. Their solution to this is, completely irrationally, to dump our advantage instead of try to spread it. They honestly believe it would be better for everyone to scratch the earth rather than have any amount of inequality.

      Now consider the democratic party has gotten even worse since the election. No learning from mistakes. No reflection. No moderation. They have good ideas too, but it's so wrapped up in crazy that it's hard to take seriously. It's a madhouse where nobody will listen to anyone because nobody is making any sense.

    84. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trollololololol

      Yeah sure because promoting racism, bigotry, being anti-science, promoting mysticism and superstition, Dominionism, expecting Zombie Jesus to come back and 'save you', destroying the Earth, promoting War, and overall dragging us back socio-politically to the 1940's (or even older) is such a fucking great idea -- all so that (You), the so-called 'Great White Males', who autistically cling to your adolescent fantasy-worlds where women, children, and anyone who isn't WHITE are considered 'property', and you can do whatever you feel like, actually unironically believing there are NO CONSEQUENCES for any of the shitty things you do? Fuck you sideways with a rusty chainsaw, you fucking FUCKS. I'd rather die fighting you than live in your twisted fucked-up idea of what the world should be.

    85. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We sure as fuck won't be rushing to make nice with you.

      Who cares.

    86. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      That's ridiculous. Ask yourself why 45% of the electorate decided to stay home in 2016. I bet the answer is that people did not feel like either the D or R candidate was worth voting for or represented them, and they believed the narrative that a vote for any other party was a waste of time. There is a massive chunk of the population that doesn't feel like they should vote. Look at the Democrats now - they have no leadership, and no agenda other than opposing whatever Republicans do. Their incumbents are losing elections, and I would bet money that trend continues in the midterms. You still have to look for people like Bernie Sanders, who explicitly makes the point that he is not a Democrat, to see any kind of positive agenda that doesn't only revolve around opposition to Republican policies.
        Democratic incumbents are going to be replaced by newcomers because the Democrats have no message and, like the Republicans, are showing that they are completely useless in Congress. If you're counting on them for balance, you're going to be disappointed. It's time for change. We need 3, 4, or 5 parties in Congress so that people will actually make some sort of attempt to compromise with each other for laws that 60, 70, or 80% of people support instead of this bullshit where each party crafts some awful legislation and then tries to scrape together the absolute bare minimum of votes to pass it. We deserve much better than that. The Ds and Rs have dropped the ball and they deserve to be kicked out.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    87. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by quantaman · · Score: 1

      You're just mad because you want to see America fail.

      I know people who want to see America fail.

      They're hopeful that Trump is the one to pull it off.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    88. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Then it's not a new party, is it? So that must not be what I'm talking about, right?

      Seriously, this country needs to kick out the Ds and Rs and come out with 3, 4, or 5 parties so that people can actually look at the range of candidates and find someone who represents them that they want to go out and vote for. Maybe then 45% of the electorate will not decide to stay home.

      If you're younger than about 40, the only third party candidate you remember seeing in a televised presidential debate is Ross Perot. But every year people from other parties still run. You never see them debate though. You should ask yourself why. If you want to know, look up the Commission on Presidential Debates, and realize that this process is controlled by the D and R parties and that they will lock any network who airs any other candidate in a debate out from those lucrative exclusive debate contracts that they like to throw around. I'm not sure what exactly is democratic about allowing a single network to air a presidential debate, but that whole process needs to be thrown in the trash.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    89. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I do think that the Democrats hate it, because they do.

      Then you're a sadly misguided fool. There's not much else to say about that if you actually believe that a majority of the US hates the US.

      They happily sell out American workers to help foreigners.

      Yeah, unlike Trump, who's nearly bending over backwards to save Chinese jobs at ZTE.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    90. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "and is willing to put American interests first"

      Trump is confusing "America First" with "America Alone". He's not standing up to the world, he's abandoning it. America is strong because it has allies, trade partners, and political supporters around the world. Instead he's saying long-standing military and trade allies are a "national security risk" in order to impose consumer taxes (tariffs) and he's being chummy with brutal dictators. For some bizarre reason he *believes* Putin when he says Russia had nothing to do with attempts to interfere with the election, even though Trump's own son met with people trying to offer "support for the campaign" and *all* the US intelligence agencies conclusively say otherwise. He's a laughing stock who is degrading the economic potential of his own country to score a few political points with the gullible. And on top of that he's inhumanely creating thousands of orphans at the border in order to score political points with people fearful of border security. Sure, tighten borders up, but not by heartlessly making kids and families political pawns. Trump's implementation is ridiculous and cruel.

      Ask Harley-Davidson or Mid-Continent Nail if tariffs are good for the economy, or a dozen other companies affected. Trump is an incompetent manager of the biggest public company in the world because although he's a "successful" businessman who has gone bankrupt only a handful of times, even managing a casino into bankruptcy, he's never managed a business where he's accountable to shareholders or the public, only to himself and his own interests. Because of that skill he's successfully managed a significant fortune inherited from his dad into a significant fortune that doesn't beat what he would have had if he had simply dumped the whole thing into an index fund and let it ride. Hopefully he won't manage to bankrupt the country too quickly before his term is up, and hopefully the next person will get their intelligence briefings from the actual agencies tasked with the job rather than from Fox and Friends and a bunch of self-interested advisors willing to say "Yes Mr. Trump" to whatever craziness comes out of his mouth after watching morning TV.

    91. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      What happened to the America that believed in one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, that I used to pledge allegiance to as a kid?

      That's a good question, so let's take those one at a time.

      "under God" - which god are you referring to? Are you aware that the US is full of immigrants, and always has been, and that these immigrants do not all share one god? Are you aware that the percentage of people who feel comfortable saying that they believe in no god has been rising steadily for decades, in accordance with most of the rest of the world? The phrase "under God" was added in 1954 during the red scare. Despite what certain people want you believe, this country has not revolved around god throughout its history.

      "indivisible" - it would be difficult to place blame for division on any one person, but the 2 major parties in control are amazingly divisive. There is no effort to unite people, only divide them, and that's especially true with Trump, that's what he does specifically.

      "liberty and justice for all" - many people in this country feel like they do not have liberty or receive justice, but unfortunately when they protest over that a large percentage of conservatives attack them for it. But, again, it's hard to pinpoint blame on any one thing for this. Like other problems though, this starts at the top too. It starts with a president who feels that justice does not apply to him and has specifically said words to that effect. He wants justice officials to be personally loyal to him. That's not justice, that's the opposite. You can see it in his actions also, like pardoning Joe Arpaio. Arpaio was found guilty of criminal contempt of court - contempt for the actual justice system - and he even admitted his guilt. So, what did Trump do? He gave him a pardon, because Trump does not believe in justice and the rule of law when it comes to him and people he likes. Then, what happens when Trump gets investigated? He pardons a series of people, including corrupt government officials, and people who tried to subvert our elections, and he pardons them because he doesn't like the people who prosecuted them. Liberty and justice are fine values to have, but it's very difficult to be a nation of liberty and justice when we have a president who does not believe in them.

      These are some of the reasons we need to get rid of the Ds and Rs and go back to actual representative government instead of electing a bunch of people who are only interested in securing power for themselves.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    92. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      There *are* people who want to see America fail and are upset Trump is taking a sharp pro-America approach.

      No shit. But they aren't Americans, and they definitely aren't voting in our elections. They're trying to subvert our processes, not participate in them.

      I mean, seriously, assuming that there are a bunch of Americans who actively want to see the country fail is just ridiculous. Maybe there are a lot more masochists in this country than I realize, but I seriously doubt there are that many people pushing for their own failure.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    93. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're NOT the majority.

    94. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sold us out, you bourgeois scumbags. You destroyed our economy for your narrow private interest. You refuse even to see, to acknowledge, the human suffering wrought by your disastrous policies.

      You are enemies of the working people. You deserve to die starving in the gutter, like so many of your victims.

      But we are not vindictive. We are still a Christian nation, even if you our masters serve mamon. We will rebuild America - and we will invite your sorry unworthy ass to be part of it. Because we're all in this together.

      #MAGA

    95. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the matter with Kansas?

    96. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the trump supporter.

    97. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I'm not a Democrat. But feel free to take a look at the popular vote totals for the 2016 election. Also feel free to figure out why 42.6% of new voters registered in 2016 were Democrat registrations, while 29% were Republican. Republican registrations only narrowly beat out independent registrations at 28.4%.

      Don't worry though, I'm sure the Democrats will manage yet again to nominate people nobody wants.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    98. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why have people forgotten two major things: 1. There was a major outcry from people having candidates foisted upon them. The democratic party had Clinton and the Republicans had yet another Bush and a giant funhouse of people that nobody genuinely felt good about. The democratic party tried to have their say, and many voted Bernie. Despite tons of pressure and incentive from the establishment to not vote Bernie, people were still doing it. The same went for republicans and their funhouse. Establishment tried hard to force more of the same through. They were shut down fast and hard with Bush, he faded quickly despite crazy amounts of money supporting him. Nearly all candidates were more establishment except Trump. Many people were voting him on through genuinely because they were fed up with the elites trying to tell the public what they were getting. Recall the discussion about potentially not giving Trump the nomination even if he won? They genuinely floated the idea, despite that it was NOT what so many voters wanted. It was the middle finger vote. Back on the democrat side, the establishment won. Clinton got all of the superdelegates before there was even a race. Bernie held strong despite immense monetary pressure from the establishment side, but the democratic establishment won out. The republican side can at least enjoy the fact that they didn't let the elites decide for them, tiny victory as it is.

      What is the second major thing? Oh, well the fact that DEMOCRATS were proudly announcing that they were happily meddling in republican primaries and making votes that they never should have been making. It was very much a thing, even some people here admitted to doing it. Reddit loves the meme "stupid games win stupid prizes". Well, enjoy your stupid prize.

    99. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit. But they aren't Americans, and they definitely aren't voting in our elections. They're trying to subvert our processes, not participate in them.

      I agree that they shouldn't be considered Americans, but unfortunately Democrats are still technically "Americans," for now at least. And you're right, they constantly cheat to "win" elections, rig their own primaries, refuse to play by the rules, and constantly work to destroy America and the American Dream.

      Democrats hate America. They're "self-loathing" Americans, constantly apologizing for the very things that make America great. In a just world, their citizenships would be stripped and they'd be shipped back off to whatever shithole country they want to turn America into. But the world isn't just, so we have to put up with their presence. For now, at least.

    100. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by HeckRuler · · Score: 1

      I don't think the economy is good. Unemployment is higher than the official numbers, it ignores underemployment, and a rosy stock market does not mean things are going well for the average worker. Next year when the middle class can't get their mortgage interest deduction I expect to see a lot more belt tightening.

      The stock market being up and interest rates being down makes bankers loose with their loans. Oh, wait, you're talking about the tax code change to deductions. Well it's not gone, but there's a limit on it now. If you were paying MORE than $10,000 on your mortgage (presumably, a new loan, so it's practically all interest) then you've just bought a.... https://www.iaacu.org/loans/lo... ..... $2.2 million dollar house, and the middle class frowns on your shenanigians. Hell, I'm upper-middle in Denver, and I don't have a million dollar home. Normally here is where I'd cry and wail about strawmen and misrepresentation, but it's fucking TAXES. They're fucking complicated these days. No sweat. And there's something else about $1 million dollar debt limit for something or other. Maybe this is a big deal for middle class in SanFran, but they're not average workers.

      But yeah, I get that average workers don't own stock, but it's still a good thing for them that they're up. If a company's stock goes up, it's good times for the company and there won't be layoffs. If the company's stock goes down, the average worker gets the shaft, just like in 2008.

      I also get that the official unemployment numbers are a bit of woowoo handwaving. But it's the same consistent metric. If it goes up or down, that's an indication of things getting better or worse. It doesn't count people who have simply given up, but if things are relatively better than in the past as the official numbers show, it will be easier for them to go get jobs. I already pointed out the gig economy shrinking, you just going to ignore that?

      For next year you should be WAY more worried that rest of the world collectively stops shipping goods to or from America. Or if the top 5 ISPs deside to try and put a strangle-hold on the Internet. Or if we're in another costly and pointless war.

      But as of right now... the economy IS doing well.

    101. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issue isn't that Trump is an existential threat but that he is doing damage that will take a very long time to correct. He has ceded our leadership role in almost everything. Syria he ceded to Russia, Climage Change went to Germany, China is getting everything they want as well.

      On top of all this he will get to pick Scotus, probably another one after as well and since he is choosing far less experienced candidates they will be there impacting decisions for decades. Even if I agreed with the current conservative agenda I'm not sure I would want anyone with any ideology on the bench for that long. You are making a very long term commitment to a person when you select people so young.

    102. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are anarchists that don't want any form of government. Democrats are not anarchists and you will not find any that want the country to fail. Allowing us to return the country to pre-EPA state should not be tolerated and wishing the Trump would fail in his quest at this is not wishing the country to fail since I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people in this country don't want our rivers and lakes to catch on fire again.

      The concept of right or wrong is definitely lost on Trump. The zero tolerance policy is just icing on that cake. Even citizens who are charged with misdemeanors are not separated from their kids. He doesn't even want to give asylum seekers due process because its too hard because of his policy. When 80% of asylum seekers actually pass their initial screenings you simply can't justify draconian actions that are being taken.

      I know of no one that wants the U.S. to fall. The reason so many are so upset right now is because they see actions being taken that will cripple us for decades to come. They do it out of love for the country.

    103. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought he got the Nobel for being the first black president.

    104. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Do you mean $10,000 a month or year? I see a limit on amount of acquisition mortage of $750,000 (if married, unclear what it is for single filers though $375,000 was for married filing jointly). That's not an uncommon amount for a dual income family in many locales. Having that much mortgage doesn't mean someone is rich, the higher salary is eaten very quickly by the added housing expenses.

      What seems to be the big hurt next year would be the $10,000 limit on state and local taxes, and that's likely to be capped just with state income tax in many states leaving no room for a property tax deduction. So yes, higher taxes overall even though I'm not one of the rich.

      Actually news this morning shows unemployment going up slightly, with the commentary that "more people are looking for work". Meaning that they weren't counted before. Wages however are not increasing by much. I always felt that was a good indicator of how well an economy is really doing for the average worker. For instance, I remember being out of work for a big chunk of time in the mid 90s with everyone telling me they'd like to hire me but hiring is frozen or there was no budget, while simultaneously all the news was trumpeting how awesome the economy was. Believe me it sucks to be out of work and hearing the radio tell you about how great the things are going. That's probably why I'm dubious about reports of a good economy.

    105. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Who will keep Scott Pruitt moist now?

      We can only hope that his name will be Bubba.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    106. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      They don't care about any of that, because all they want is someone who will beat The Evil Democrats. Everything else, including party and country is secondary to winning against the hated enemy. Sieg uber alles.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    107. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      You're NOT the majority.

      Strangely enough, nobody is.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    108. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      You need to think a little more before replying, because he's right "My country right or wrong" is a terrible and ignorant motto. You're also right that "My country, right or wrong; if right to be kept right, if wrong, to be put right" isn't a terrible motto. However, far too many people seem to forget the second half.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    109. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      There *are* people who want to see America fail and are upset Trump is taking a sharp pro-America approach.

      Actually judging from comments on Slashdot before and after the election, there *are* people who want to see America fail and are delighted that Trump is taking a moronic pro-America approach. See the thing I remember quite clearly was that all the people I saw who wrote they explicitly wanted America to burn also declared that they were voting for Trump...

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    110. Re: Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Gerrymandering usually makes most (more than 95%) of the general elections a foregone conclusion, so it's only the nomination ballots that actually have any competition.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    111. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      And give credit where credit is due. He's made progress with N. Korea. There's a CHANCE he won't bungle it. I think the guy's just a bully and he managed to bully Kim into action. A nuclear game of chicken. The sort of game where you only really have to worry if the other guy is completely crazy. Which oh look, we've got that guy. If reunification happens, it's going to be WEIRD. There will be statues of Trump as a man of peace.

      No, I don't think so. You seem to be ignoring a lot of facts, like the one where an earth quake likely heavily damaged the nuclear testing site that Kim Jong Un, has promised to decommission. I don't know what North Korea has planned, but I have serious concerns that Trump and by extension America, is the mark in North Korea's shell game. The "Trump out-crazied North Korea by tweeting" argument is just amazingly unconvincing.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    112. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Trump isn't doing an okay job, he's doing a fantastic job and is actually delivering on his campaign promises. You're just worried that his approval ratings are steadily increasing as more and more people come to realise what a good job he's doing.

      You mispelled Obama in that sentence, Trump's "economic success" was been entirely inherited from Obama's administration. You can look at the graphs yourself, the average economic growth has actually slowed a little since the end of 2016, not accelerated.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    113. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's your idea of good, I'd hate to see a bad President...

    114. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      You're just mad because you want to see America fail.

      This makes me sad because I believe that many Trump supporters actually believe things like this about people who disagree with them.

      There *are* people who want to see America fail and are upset Trump is taking a sharp pro-America approach.

      Let me asure you: people who hate America love what Trump is doing to it.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    115. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you just don't understand!

      Trump drained the swamp. Then he fired all the alligators. Next he replaced all the alligators with crocodiles and refilled the swamp. You gotta have swamp to support your Gen-u-ine Republican crocodiles, everyone knows that! However the swamp water is Republican holy water, blessed by an evangelical, holding his nose and repeatedly bursting into flames from hypocrisy. The holy swamp water is handy to put out the self-immolating Fires of Hell!

      Pruitt's only mistake was being more corrupt than the average Trump appointee.

    116. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that's your idea of good, I'd hate to see a bad President...

      We already say him. eighth years of him. thank god that is over

    117. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Trump is the swamp.

      Indeed he is; however, he is a different "swamp".

      Trump is a moron. He does not realize how/why the "swamp" ever became a thing. Since he was on the "outside" before, he fails to see how his actions are the same actions that created the original "swamp".

      Regardless, at least there is some mixing action going on. New players, new swamp, more chances at discovering old corruption.

      It is a sad state of affairs where the only two people you can realistically vote for are both corrupt as hell and the only reason one won over the other is because it is a new corruption rather than the already present corruption. *sigh*

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    118. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by strikethree · · Score: 1

      So far as 2020 goes: If you want to help, you've got to convince people you know who are Independents to register as Democrat

      Eh? Why would registering as Democrat help? Are you under the illusion that Democrats are better than Republicans? Both are extremely corrupt, just in different ways. Ultimately, voting for either party is a vote for the status quo of corruption.

      What happened to Sanders in the runup to the election? His own party conspired to work against him. That is one exact definition of corruption. The way the Democratic party moved funds around is another exact definition of corruption.

      Why would you support Democrats?

      If you supported Republicans, I would be asking the exact same question.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    119. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's extremely well known that we're still at the tail end of the Obama economy, so you can thank him for the "positively booming" economy :)

      There is a reason most professional economists are nervous though; a recession is on it's way, and Trump seems adamant about achieving it as quickly and painfully as possible. Luckily his approval ratings are only going up among the loony Republicans; the rest of the country has been steadily disapproving, and he currently has the lowest approval ratings in presidential history.

    120. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2

      Your attitude towards your fellow citizens is a good illustration of the division the country faces. It's completely incorrect and it's a good illustration of the problem that many people like you have. I'm not sure who has convinced you that a large percentage of the country is your enemy, although I could certainly guess, but it's not correct and it's not helpful to progress. Viewing those that you disagree with as your enemy will not help you solve the problem, especially when you need their help, and most especially when you're part of a very small minority of people who think like you. I understand where you're coming from though, when you have a distorted view of reality in general and you can't figure out how other people see things differently, it helps you mentally if you can convince yourself that those who disagree with you are somehow "less" than you are. That's not necessarily true either.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    121. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're the enemy because they seek to destroy America. It's that simple. There's no complexity here: a large group of people seek to destroy America and everything that makes America great, and through the deep state they're using America's own institutions to carry out these goals.

      You don't "disagree" with an arsonist who wants to burn your house down. There is no "coming to an agreement" here. One side wants nothing less than the complete destruction of America and American values. They must be eradicated. There is no other option.

    122. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      They're the enemy because they seek to destroy America. It's that simple.

      I hope you understand the above statement is your opinion and is not a statement of fact, but I doubt you'll admit that.

      One side wants nothing less than the complete destruction of America and American values.

      That is another statement of opinion, and considering the fact that you're trying to apply it to a large portion of American society, it is also absurd.

      They must be eradicated. There is no other option.

      I can see that you're not willing to engage in any sort of discussion on this issue, you've already made up your mind and I have major doubts that any amount of evidence to the contrary, even obvious and direct evidence that your opinions are wrong, will cause you to engage in any sort of critical thinking or cause your opinions to change. If you'd like to post your name though, I'll go ahead and set up a news alert so I can find out when you've actually snapped and decided to attack your fellow citizens.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    123. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I'll give the most obvious example that you're wrong: Democrats are frequently in power, yet America remains. If they wanted to destroy it, they have had multiple opportunities to do so.

      Trump, on the other hand, is actively trying to subvert American institutions. He is trying to subvert the Justice Dept and the rule of law in general - he does not believe that he nor his friends are subject to the rule of law, and he proves it by some of his several pardons. He saluted North Korean generals. He acts as an unwitting puppet for other governments who can control what he does simply by stroking his ego. He literally kidnaps kids from their parents and holds them in confinement - and I'm going to repeat that. The President Of The United States kidnaps children as young as infants and toddlers from their parents and then keeps them in confinement, all while saying he unconstitutionally wants to deny those children and their parents due process - which is obviously and blatantly un-American. He is abandoning the leadership role that America has had for decades, just literally and completely abandoning it. He has attacked allies who have stood with us on every important international issue for decades. He is starting trade wars that are not possible for either side to "win", while he's helping Chinese companies who spy on us try to avoid our sanctions and save their jobs.

      And you think this person is good for the country, and that people who disagree with him are the enemies of the country. If the above description is what you think America means, then maybe you're the one who is actually the enemy of America. Maybe you have no idea what it means to actually be an American and share our values. Because our values include due process for everyone, even people in the country illegally. If you disagree with that, then you disagree with American values. It's that simple.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    124. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Call me romantic because I think I can persuade you with logic and critical thinking, but I'm not holding out hope. In fact, after reading the above post which contains several examples of the un-American activities of our president, I bet you're actually going to hold on to your convictions even tighter. That's an interesting phenomenon that happens - when people hold factually incorrect ideas, and are presented with counter-proof, they will often believe the incorrect ideas even more strongly. I suspect you're an example of that, but still I try to reason with you.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    125. Re:Trump's version of swamp draining... by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      No, he spelled Trump correctly. Virtually everything successful in this economy has been correctly attributed to Trump. Even some of his worse critics have to admit that.

      Under Obama the economy was one of the worse in recorded history. His mismanagement of the economy are just one more reason, along with those 7 to 10 trillion others, that Obama will go down as one of the worse in history. Of course it will take 25 or more years for this to happen.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
  4. Trumptards will blame democrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure trumptards will find a way to blame the democrats and Hillary for this. Anything to reject responsability that because of them, the U.S. is now ruled by corporate fascists.

  5. Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    You are all cows. Cows say moo. MOOOOOO! MOOOOOO! Moo cows MOOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU ENVIRONMENTALLY PROTECTED COWS!!

    1. Re:Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1
      But Sexconker, under Pruitt the cows aren't environmentally protected; that's been the problem all along!
      Only Luddites fail to environmentally protect cows.

      Scott Pruitt probably wanted to feed the cows toxic waste

    2. Re:Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only Luddite Appers App Environmentally Apped Cows.
      Apps!

    3. Re:Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Now you're mixing your metaphors incorrectly. Are you sure your Sexconker Luddite App Generator App(TM) is set correctly?

    4. Re:Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You know, I enjoyed /. memes more when they were about beowulf clusters of Natalie Portman's hot grits in Soviet Russia.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      *shrug*

      I'm just poking Sexconker with a stick for the hell of it. Nothing to see here..

    6. Re:Scott Pruitt is a cow. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Please, we're having a political discussion and don't have time for someone sane!

  6. Allow me to introduce you two... by TigerPlish · · Score: 1

    Asshole, doorknob. Make sure you don't hit it on the way out.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
  7. Is the swamp drained yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is the swamp drained yet? Are we tired of "winning" yet? Is America great again yet?

    1. Re:Is the swamp drained yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If by 'great' you mean 'the biggest laughingstock-of-a-country of the last 2000 years, and almost universally hated', then I guess so.

    2. Re:Is the swamp drained yet? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Depends on your definition of great.

      It sure is great for comedians all over the world, I can tell you that much.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Womp womp by scubamage · · Score: 5, Funny

    Thoughts and prayers.

    1. Re:Womp womp by shanen · · Score: 1

      I wish I had some mod points to give you. Someone please mod up that womper.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    2. Re:Womp womp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess Slashdot is no better than Reddit now. I'm sorry to see it. Stealing their memes, their unfunny comments and getting upvoted five times for it. I am genuinely bummed now.

  9. Coward Ryan Zinke is next. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Drain them up!

  10. Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ... but the EPA needs to be curtailed in every way. Trump gave him a chance because he's a known EPA-hater, but he turned out to be in it for the money. Maybe the next guy can actually change things at EPA. Suck on that lefties.

    1. Re:Super swamper for sure... by chadenright · · Score: 0

      Trump gave him a chance because he was fellating Trump's daughter, and only got rid of him when the guy became such a huge dead weight that he started threatening to drag other people down with him.

    2. Re:Super swamper for sure... by admin7087 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know, maybe you guys should focus on clean, lead-free tap water first.

    3. Re:Super swamper for sure... by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The EPA is why every car doesn't smell like that banged up 1980s Chrysler "Antique" you drove behind the other day. It's why LA isn't full of smog. It's part of the same movement that removed lead from gasoline, causing a reduction in brain damage and, according to all available evidence, ultimately causing a massive reduction in crime since the 1980s.

      No, it doesn't need to be curtailed, most of us want clean air and water. You may be the exception, you may even like brain damage, I have no idea, but you're the exception.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, maybe you guys should focus on clean, lead-free tap water first.

      Yeah - get rid of that, and you’re golden.

    5. Re:Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Victim of its own success: Many of today's anti-EPA fools have never experienced the environment as it was before the EPA.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=pre-epa+environment+photos

      When you could be sailing off of Los Angeles, and if the wind abruptly switched to an offshore flow you would literally see a wall of yellow coming at you. When living in a large city was equivalent to smoking two packs a day. When a new, properly-running car's tailpipe literally emitted visible smoke and soot... Meanwhile they buy a new car and take for granted the fact that it burns so clean that it actually emits less soot and NOx than it breathed in. When rain in the American northeast once had pH values approaching *2* due to massive uncontrolled sulfur dioxide emissions from burning coal.

      But yeah, average guy, keeping believing the liars who tell you the EPA is your enemy.

    6. Re:Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go suck on some more lead based paint chips. Trump will seem even more intelligent to you.

    7. Re:Super swamper for sure... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      causing a reduction in brain damage and

      Given what we're seeing in the White House right now [citation needed]

    8. Re:Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know, maybe you guys should focus on clean, lead-free tap water first.

      Hen and egg problem here. Lead poisoning makes it hard to focus. Why do you think Trump got elected in the first place? He is first choice for people without an attention span.

    9. Re:Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EPA did okay work back in the 1970s. Limiting toxin dumping, lead content, arsenic and mercury leakage... Good things, back then.

      Today, they try to regulate backyard ponds and fine people millions for not filing Environment Impact Statements about their roof gutters.

    10. Re:Super swamper for sure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or, may have brain damage.
      No joke.
      I consider prolonged or permanent changes to brain chemistry as brain damage.
      Many of the things we are exposed to everyday have been shown to disrupt or change biological processes. While these are often subtle changes, it very well could have an effect on behavior, thought, and actions.

  11. Portable fuel containers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From https://lfb.org/how-government-wrecked-the-gas-can/: "The government never said “no vents.” It abolished them de facto with new standards that every state had to adopt by 2009. So for the last three years, you have not been able to buy gas cans that work properly. They are not permitted to have a separate vent. The top has to close automatically. There are other silly things now, too, but the biggest problem is that they do not do well what cans are supposed to do."

    1. Re:Portable fuel containers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You spill more gas with the new cans. It's a classic case of we know better than you and have unfettered power. Sorry to see the opportunity for real change leave. But, I'm sure the next up will infuriate the left even more.

  12. EPA is as Bad as the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Political Appointees and Activist need executed.

    1. Re:EPA is as Bad as the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      engrish need executed.

  13. Seems like Trump is doing a pretty good job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Find out what the people consider unbearable and then go a few steps beyond that. The people will finally be angered enough to call for heads to roll and finally the judicial and legislative wheels will be pushed into motion that have rusted up in political complacency.

    Seems like overall he is living up to that particular promise, just in the most Jar Jar Binks method possible.

  14. Oh good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The science denier is finally kicked out of the one department where science should rule above all. About time. Just the fact he was even in that position shows how terrible the Trump administration is for the world.

  15. Should not stop prosecution n refund for spending by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that was inappropriate, not authorized, and forced upon staff, nor inappropriate use of office for getting wife job, franchise, or money

  16. An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Lucas123 · · Score: 4, Informative

    And yet, he had the most harmful agenda toward his own agancy of any predecessor.

    What's crazy is that it took an ethics scandal over sweetheart deals with a gas industry lobbying firm to get him out

    Yeah, I guess you can say at least he's out, but who knows who Trump will replace him with. Probably just another oil and coal industry lapdog.

    1. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Thelasko · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I guess you can say at least he's out, but who knows who Trump will replace him with. Probably just another oil and coal industry lapdog.

      Andrew Wheeler- You hit the nail on the head. A former coal industry lobbyist.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    2. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by shanen · · Score: 2

      Naw, I think the crazy part is that the EPA was Nixon's idea.

      Even with the perversions, Nixon was an ACTUAL Republican president with some principles that weren't entirely bonkers. I would argue that most of the GOP presidents since then have been posers or fakes. Poppy Bush was the main exception--and he was bounced after one term. #PresidentTweety is just the natural result of FAKE Republican devolution.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    3. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's really sad is that something like Watergate would not fell the president today but be used as an excuse to cut into journalist freedoms.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tom Wheeler was a former telcom lobbyist. There are some guys who strangely work for their employer even when the employer is The People.

      Should be the rule but isn't. Because most publc servants consider the public their serfs, paying them tributes rather than wages.

    5. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by shanen · · Score: 2

      I sure hope you're wrong, but I can't point at any concrete evidence. #PresidentTweety certainly claims he's doing just fine and feeling dandy.

      In solution terms, I think we need a seriously new financial model to support REAL journalism. I favor an approach that links to solving the problems that the journalists are telling us about. That financial model should also be linked to EPR (Earned Public Reputation) at the individual level. On the one hand, EPR could tell you a lot about the creator of a video or the author of an article, while on the other hand, EPR could tell you about the person recommending the story.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    6. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And on the other other hand... Any algorithmic EPR could be easily gamed to create even more isolated silos of thought. One of the two major silos of thought is obviously not in the best interest of the USA.

    7. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I think Nixon was pressured into it. Pollution was big at the time, lots of embarassing things like rivers catching fire. So he wanted to do something about it but not to that extent. Problem was that the states weren't doing much about the problem, and since the problem in one state caused a mess in the state that was downstream it turned into a federal problem. Back then the Republicans weren't the anti-federalists they are now but they didn't want to upset the big corporate campaign donors either.

    8. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In solution terms, I think we need a seriously new financial model to support REAL journalism.

      We do have real journalism. Christian Science Monitor, Economist, The Hill, NPR, New York Times, National Review, Atlantic, etc.

      Some of the above sources may be biased (e.g. National Review is conservative, the Atlantic is liberal, etc), some may just report the facts while others will be open to interpretation of the facts, but they all are prone to pretty fair reporting.

      Note that real journalism can be messy, it can be boring, it can take time to read and digest, and it can challenge your views.

      Contrast that with the hyper-partisan, misleading journalism (omission, non-credible sources, etc) which creates a safe space that reinforces one's belief system.

      A lot of people prefer the later. That's the issue - a lot of people prefer simple, black-and-white views of the world and only hearing what they want to hear. Real journalism didn't fail us. We, as a population, failed real journalism.

    9. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something like Watergate did befall the President in 2016. In the 1970s, Nixon had a group called the Plumbers. They were the special investigative unit tasked with stopping the leaks that resulted in the Pentagon Papers. Later, many of them were involved in the Watergate break-in. What was Watergate, really? A break-in at DNC headquarters to discover Democratic party operations and secrets. It's unlikely that Nixon knew of the break-in beforehand or specifically condoned it, but he attempted to cover-up and protect after-the-fact, and the resulting investigation uncovered other abuses of power conducted by the administration.

      The difference in 2016 was that instead of being actual employees of the Trump campaign, Russian agents "broke in" digitally to reveal Democratic policies and secrets. Trump has certainly denied the Russian connection, he promised the Russians more favorable treatment during the election, and the only retaliation he ever allowed was that which was clear would happen anyway with a presidential veto override. That whole "investigation revealing other abuses of power" thing is ongoing, and who knows where that will go.

    10. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's quite sad when those who could be promising leaders fall to "the ends justify the means". Our politicians these days are surrounded by campaign managers and financiers that tell them over and over "this must be done or BadThingsHappen()". Even the half decent ones fall under all that weight. It's a bloody jungle, and the only people that don't come back from the jungle changed are the ones that were predators to begin with.

    11. Re:An EPA administrator with the shortest tenure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      During the 2008 election, a DNC leader's son and employee 'hacked' into Sarah Palin's emails looking for dirt, just like the "Plumbers" broke into the Watergate offices looking for dirt. It was a very minor splash, and no one actually cared.

      Under the Obama administration, the IRS persecuted conservative groups and illrgally leaked taxpayer information to reporters and friends in the FBI - something the IRS has admitted to in court. To this day, Democrats still insist that nothing happened.

      Hillary Clinton ran an illegal email server that had thousands of classified emails on it, including TOP SECRET HUMINT and satellite imagery. This server was accessed by foreign intelligence services, and uncleared Clinton associates. After lying about the server, and destroying evidence under subpoena, Clinton and her staff were all publicly let go by someone who expected her to be his next boss.

      All of these are worse than Nixon's trying to cover up an embarrassing scandal caused by his campaign workers. But again, due to the nature of today's hyper-partisanship, they defended 100%. Trump could murder someone in the street tomorrow, on film, and his supporters would still defend him.

  17. Good. But what about the next guy? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Scott Pruitt resigning is a good thing, but is his replacement going to be as bad, or worse? We need an EPA that puts protecting the environment ahead of corporate interests and ignores 'personal loyalty' to Trump, and you can call me 'anti-Trump' (true, but irrelevant for this subject) or 'pro-Hillary' (untrue, and just as irrelevant), but if your kids are getting cancer (or YOU get cancer) or are born with birth defects because there's toxic substances in your drinking water and/or air, I guarantee that you will care, and if your nice coastal home has to be abandoned because sea levels rise permanently and flood you out, you will care. Try thinking in the long term, Conservative types, and not just about punishing so-called 'liberals', or only as far ahead as next quarters' profits.

    1. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by squiggleslash · · Score: 0

      I'm going to get cancer AND I'm going to change insurer so it becomes a pre-existing condition that can legally not be covered next time the Republicans remove something from Obamacare, all to own the libs. That'll teach them for caring about stuff!

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EPA isn't a separate branch of government. It's part of the executive branch . The EPA administrator should be loyal to the President doofus.

    3. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not to distract from your main point about his successor, which is good, I want to criticize your use of the term "Conservative types" with a capital C.

      Nobody is a more rabid environmentalist than the hunter who wants to protect their land or the fisherman who wants to protect their livelihood. These people are typically conservatives. Conservatives are about preservation and good stewardship. The Republican party does not define what it is to be conservative, and environmentalism is not a liberal or conservative philosophy.

      The Republican party has cognitive dissonance over environmentalism because the party has entrenched big-business interests with very short-term thinking. They have vocally pushed the false story that environmental policy is anti-business.

      Toyota made a fortune off environmentally friendly cars. When George W Bush told America that raising fuel economy would cost "millions" of jobs, Toyota bet on the technology anyway. When gas prices rose Americans bought fuel-efficient cars bolstering Toyota. The American auto makers were either buying engines from Toyota or licensing their patents. Environmental tech paid off.

      When the US government used thermal imaging to inspect for leaks in large ships, big shipping companies objected. But once they realized that cutting down on engine leaks would save them money, they started enforcing the emissions laws themselves because it was profitable.

      Conservatives know that investing in environmental technology is often economically productive. Less fuel consumption means less dependency on foreign resources, less damage to American land and resources, and more technological innovation and leadership.

    4. Re: Good. But what about the next guy? by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't government employees be loyal to the Constitution first, the people in an incredibly close second, and all others far behind that?

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    5. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by whoever57 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but you are kidding yourself. You are in denial.

      Fishermen who want to protect their livelihood? Those same fishermen who trawled fish out of the oceans to the point of collapse?

      It may be a matter of semantics, but today's "Conservatives" are about 2 things: authoritarianism and "I've got mine, fuck you". The conservatives of which you speak don't exist, or, if they exist, they don't call themselves "Conservatives" (big or little C, it doesn't matter).

      Today's conservatives are defined by regressive social policies, and, in many cases, outright racism.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      What you say about conservatives may have been true once. I really do not know. But it is not true of them today. The movement has become overwhelmed by popularism now - intellectual considerations thrown aside in favor of soundbite politics and conspiracy theories. Their approach to the environment is now defined by an instinctive rejection of any and all regulation and an unshakable faith in the market to solve every problem, justified by outright rejecting any scientific evidence that would be politically inconvenient. You read any popular conservative website now and you can expect to see columnists decrying 'so-called' climate change as a liberal conspiracy and asking why the government sacrifices human prosperity to protect endangered species squatting on valuable farmland.

    7. Re: Good. But what about the next guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's conservation in your own country's waters, but fuck all the fish outside that. (Sidenote: fuck you, Spain).

    8. Re: Good. But what about the next guy? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't government employees be loyal to the Constitution first, the people in an incredibly close second, and all others far behind that?

      If government employees were loyal to the Constitution then the EPA would not exist.

      The federal government is a construct of the states, the states are sovereign but give certain powers to the federal government. No where in the Constitution was the federal government given the authority to regulate air and water quality. If it is there then I'd like to have someone point it out to me. That was something left to the states.

      The US Constitution is primarily a business contract, the states agreeing on how trade is to be done among them. I could imagine some federal environmental regulations. One example would be in the case of ships dumping their shit into federal waters, that would be considered a matter of crimes at sea. Another example would be managing some matters of trade when it comes to things like some states wanting all cars to have catalytic converters, that's a matter of trade between the states. Such an office that manages emission controls on automobiles wouldn't be some huge independent agency like the EPA, it'd be a small office within the Department of Commerce.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    9. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by silvergeek · · Score: 1

      None of those bad things you mention (cancer, etc.) will ever happen to me. And without empathy (which seems to be missing in almost half the voters today), I'm not going to give a crap about those who are damaged from the chemicals or global warming.

    10. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 0

      The Republican party has cognitive dissonance over environmentalism because the party has entrenched big-business interests with very short-term thinking.

      You leave out the whole story of extremism and overreach on this topic by Democrats. That's a huge factor in how these issues have evolved.

      I mean, I can guess at why you leave it out, but regardless of why, if you do, you operate in a sort of deluded state yourself.

    11. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by bjdevil66 · · Score: 1

      Toyota made a fortune off environmentally friendly cars. When George W Bush told America that raising fuel economy would cost "millions" of jobs, Toyota bet on the technology anyway. When gas prices rose Americans bought fuel-efficient cars bolstering Toyota. The American auto makers were either buying engines from Toyota or licensing their patents. Environmental tech paid off.

      Toyota also only initially invested in the technology because an American car manufacturer (GM, IIRC) had put together potential prototypes and looked to be way ahead of the game on the future. Of course, GM threw all of that tech in the closet for whatever dumb reason and Toyota took the lead. (Isn't it amazing that even in the 21st century companies are still invent superior technology to their own and then neglecting it intentionally out of the inability to change or take risks - despite all of the MBA-educated executives being trained to NOT DO THAT in MBA 101?)

    12. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by dog77 · · Score: 0

      Today's conservatives are defined by regressive social policies, and, in many cases, outright racism.

      Can you give some examples where conservatives are outright racist? I know of cases where there are claims of subtle racism such as the travel ban or keeping non citizens from entering our country, but nothing outright.

      For the most part conservatives don't think the way you characterize them. They think law and order protects society so that society as a whole can prosper. Conservatives believe creation of wealth is the best way to lift everyone out of poverty and so they favor policies that make wealth creation as easy as possible. All conservatives that I know give to charities.

      I think we are better off, if we stick to actual policy discussion instead of broad characterizations which I would argue is the same recipe that leads to racism. I probably would not have said anything, but your comment got modded up to 5 and maybe your comment about the fishermen was interesting, but you went off the rails with your conservative rant.

    13. Re: Good. But what about the next guy? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      EPA isn't really a huge agency. It exists because of those situations where pollution from one state affects another state, it falls squarely under interstate commerce. Sure, the states could have just sued each other, but that just puts the solution onto the supreme court rather than congress.

    14. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may be a matter of semantics, but today's "Conservatives" are about 2 things: authoritarianism and "I've got mine, fuck you".

      Not that you probably care, but kids these days tend to think liberals are the authoritarians.

      Kids like to rebel, and as liberals have put it, they won the culture war, making liberals "the man".

      Counter-culture is what's cool, and that's now anti-liberal, just as punks n crap of yesteryear were anti-conservative.

      Plus kids like tech a lot, and the most popular tech among kids tends to hinge on open communication (social media, online gaming). 2 guesses: which side is seen at the one that likes to censor/police communication/word choice?

    15. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if YOU define conservatives.

      Silly.

    16. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, the people who you're trying to appeal to don't care about your arguments.
      They all live out of the city, they all live away from the coast. Warmer weather and more rain sounds good to them. Their water comes from inside the earth, their air comes from the miles of open land around them. The flyover people have totally realized that the coastal city folk don't care about them at all, so they've started not caring back.

    17. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      The EPA isn't a separate branch of government. It's part of the executive branch . The EPA administrator should be loyal to the President doofus.

      Well, he should follow his oath of office. And that says they will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Not to defend the President against the constitution, but the Constitution against the President. Period.

      So no, he should not be loyal to President Doofus.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    18. Re:Good. But what about the next guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference between the fishermen who want to protect their livelihood and those who pillage the oceans of all of its fruits is similar to the difference between the generational farmers of the Midwest and those assholes who are putting up gargantuan hog confinement operations.

      You have some extreme cognitive dissonance. Those are completely different people. Believe it or not, people can operate in similar fields, and have strikingly different beliefs and values. You can mostly tell by how much damage they're willing to do to those around them.

  18. Good riddance by shadesofgreen · · Score: 2

    Wonder what really was the tipping point..did he hit on Ivanka?

    1. Re:Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His hands were too big.

    2. Re:Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His hands were too big.

      Thats what Ivanka told Donald...

    3. Re:Good riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wonder what really was the tipping point..did he hit on Ivanka?

      No, he refused to.

  19. "we're going to have all the best..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    another one bites the dust.

  20. Replacement not good either by shadesofgreen · · Score: 1

    >"agency's deputy administrator and former coal industry lobbyist, Andrew Wheeler, will become the acting head of EPA"
    That's not good news either, lets hope it slows down the destruction of environment for time being.

  21. I doubt his replacement will be much better ... by riverat1 · · Score: 0

    It's good that he's gone but I doubt whoever replaces him will be any better at the job except for being more competent at avoiding most of the ridiculous scandals that Pruitt perpetrated. He treated the job as if it was his to fulfill his dreams of being in charge of his own personal kingdom. The guy was out of control spending money on personal protection that shouldn't be warranted for someone in his position. I mean who spends $43,000 on a cone of silence?

    1. Re:I doubt his replacement will be much better ... by apoc.famine · · Score: 0

      I'm just wondering what size his tactical pants are. I mean, he obviously doesn't need them anymore, now that he's not fighting bad guys as the head of the EPA.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:I doubt his replacement will be much better ... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And it didn't even work, we could still hear him.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:I doubt his replacement will be much better ... by supremebob · · Score: 1

      I'd imagine that the soundproof room was to prevent outside people from recording the marching orders that Pruitt was receiving from the gas and oil industry executives.

      Of course, now that the room has been built, don't expect the next EPA admin from the Trump administration to be in a hurry to tear it down.

  22. Drain The Swamp! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This guy was a clusterfuck from the beginning.
    Don't worry though, another swampthing will replace him...

  23. Prediction: by DalM · · Score: 4, Funny

    Melania is going to get the boot as a surprise twist during the fall season premier.

    1. Re:Prediction: by shanen · · Score: 1

      Actually I've been predicting that she's going to boot Trump soon, but the prenup will prevent her from getting the house in NYC.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    2. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And she'll find out from a tweet.

    3. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will it though? I wonder who represented Melania in the prenup.... I wonder whether the prenup was executed in good faith. A prenup based on coersion or deceipt is not a valid prenup.

    4. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that Trump is setting up a denaturalization taskforce to find reasons to deport actual citizens, this may not be far from the truth. Melania got work as a model on a visitor visa (which does not allow you to work). This is visa fraud, which is a valid reason to revoke citizenship. And since her parents are here through chain migration (which Trump is also trying to eliminate), Melania and her parents may find themselves out of a country if she tries to cross him.

      Of course, Trumpsters are all hypocrites so they will ignore Melania breaking the law while self-righteously proclaiming that any minor flaw in anybody else's paperwork is reason to strip them of their citizenship and deport them because "zero tolerance".

      dom

    5. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Melania is going to be the next EPA administrator: pruit magic tells me this.

    6. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think Trump will off Jared and take Ivanka for himself?

      Or, just leave him alive to suffer the humiliation of being cuckolded?

    7. Re:Prediction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does everyone seem to think Malaria is some sort of innocent waif fresh off the farm?

      She was a NYC fashion model (ask any Wall Street guy what that means) who then became a gold-digging trophy-wife. She is just as cold, narcissistic, greedy, and sociopathic as the rest of the Trumps.

  24. Bummer by erp_consultant · · Score: 2

    I hear that Anthony Weiner is open to exploring new opportunities. Does anyone have Matt Lauer or Harvey Weinstein or Charlie Rose on speed dial? Now that the bar has been set sufficient low I'm sure that any of them would be fine candidates.

    1. Re:Bummer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eat a giant cock.

  25. Great People by sit1963nz · · Score: 1

    Trump knows great people, the best people, good people , if they weren't the best people he wouldn't have pardoned them.

  26. I love the United States. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a U.S. citizen, live in the U.S., and wish the U.S. eventually will have a healthy government again.

    1. Re:I love the United States. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a U.S. citizen, live in the U.S., and wish the U.S. eventually will have a healthy government again.

      For that to happen the U.S. electorate needs aa very severe collective beating with a great big clue-stick.

    2. Re:I love the United States. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      For this to happen, the whole system would have to change. As long as you can only really choose between two evils and hoping that you'll actually pick the lesser one, you can't hope to actually get anything good.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:I love the United States. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Not going to happen. Voters all know the unfortunate reality that makes two-party systems so stable: If you want to have any hope of keeping the greater evil out, you have to vote for the lesser one.

    4. Re: I love the United States. by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      Pretty fucked up someone down modded that statement. Being proud of your country isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Hoping it improves and gets better isn't a bad thing either.

    5. Re:I love the United States. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      But the last presidential election has shown clearly that there is no lesser evil. They were both unfit for the office. And the question "who do I think will cause less damage" should NOT be what determines who you vote for.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  27. Well the problem with getting rid of Sessions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem with replacing Sessions is he's recused. Anyone Trump gets in there besides him won't be, and would end the investigations causing the big Constitutional crisis that could really... be bad for everybody.

    I don't put it past Trump to burn the White House down if he can't have it.

  28. That's not news, he resigned before he started. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But at least he is no longer getting paid. Apart from whatever golden parachute program is available for Trump's impressive line dance of cronies, of course.

  29. Rich by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Go ahead and find me a poor politician, I'll wait.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Rich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go ahead and find me a poor politician, I'll wait.

      Take a look at Eisenhower's vita. He wasn't exactly from silver xpoon central.

  30. Scott Pruitt vs the World by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    (someone had to say it)

  31. Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by shanen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Pruitt had become the poster child for government corruption, but I think Trump actually liked his flamboyance about it. Sort of created cover for Trump's own shenanigans. I am sort of curious which camel broke the straw's back, but mostly I agree with the "good riddance" comments and I'm offended by the holier-than-thou hypocrisy.

    The last of the vestigial TRUE Republicans are dying or retiring. The brand has been hijacked.

    Gee, do you suppose it would deter the hijackers like Scott Pruitt if someone would lock up their kids? You know, the old collective responsibility thing.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The last of the vestigial TRUE Republicans are dying or retiring. The brand has been hijacked.

      Agreed. I'm not a kid, far from it, and I clearly remember that while you didn't necessarily agree with what the GOP did, they at least believed in family and had a sense of basic decency. Doesn't seem to the case anymore, now it just seems to be extremists catering to other extremists.

      Gee, do you suppose it would deter the hijackers like Scott Pruitt if someone would lock up their kids? You know, the old collective responsibility thing.

      What I'd actually do is get their wives in front of a camera for an interview and find out what they really think of all this. The crowning achievement here would be to get Melania Trump to disagree with her own husband on all of this, and do it publicly; sadly that won't ever happen, so I'd be happy enough to have Sessions' own wife, or adult daughter, speak out against these 'policies'. But yeah, having someone, say, kidnap Sessions' kids, just to prove a point? That'd be powerful. Not hurt them in any way, of course, and not even demand any ransom; treat them like royalty, keep them for a week or two, then they show up unharmed on the doorstep of th DoJ, with a note from the kidnappers: "How does it feel to not know where your children are, Mister Sessions?"

    2. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by shanen · · Score: 2

      Thanks. I wonder if the parts you quoted were the same parts that drew the ire of the trolls' sock puppets with mod points?

      (One of my theories about the problems with Slashdot is skilled trolls with sock puppets harvesting the mod points I never get. However, at this point I don't think that even Nomad could repair Slashdot.)

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    3. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      True, the GOP of my youth was one of unfettered freedom of economy, what's left today is unfettered kleptocracy.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Funny

      I clearly remember that while you didn't necessarily agree with what the GOP did, they at least believed in family and had a sense of basic decency.

      It is a true sign of how far we have come when we get nostalgic about the good ole' days of Dick Nixon.

    5. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pruitt committed one of the great sins in the Trump Administration: he took negative attention away from Donald Trump. He likes cage rattling and ticking people off, but only if done in a way that reflects well on him, at least to his base. Pruitt's nonsense was an embarrassing distraction.

      Donald Trump campaigned on "draining the swamp," and Pruitt is one of the swampiest executive picks in generations. Trump was happy with the job Pruitt was doing as EPA administrator, the actual policies and fights he fought. But these other abuses of power were not the types of things that impress him.

    6. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      (One of my theories about the problems with Slashdot is skilled trolls with sock puppets harvesting the mod points I never get. However, at this point I don't think that even Nomad could repair Slashdot.)

      You should get more mod points the more you post. But Slashdot's karma system is totally broken, since a single person can have a fit and throw all his mod points into downmodding every post for someone who ticked him off, until that account loses its karma and starts with posts modded at -1 by default. You can't post more/better to try to counteract the 3-5 downmods you'll get per mod period, because accounts with lower karma have strict posting limits.

      I abandoned my 20-year-old account about a year ago and only post anon now because of that. Slashdot's absentee admins don't particularly care that their mod system can be exploited for users to attack each other.

    7. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Far simple, just tackle those corrupt idiots weaknesses. They are psychopaths driven by their ego and lusts, put them under the spot light to deny them their lusts and just insult the crap out of them at every opportunity, they will never feel shame but being publicly ridiculed makes them burn. That and expose everyone of the deceptions, scams and simply keep poking their plots and schemes until they fall apart. Next level shun those than refuse to shun them (they then have to rely on each other, worse than it sounds as they are all disingenuous back stabber all too happy to stab each other in the back to get ahead).

      Without us they fail and with them we fail, interesting that.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Funny

      True, the GOP of my youth was one of unfettered freedom of economy, what's left today is unfettered kleptocracy.

      I have a dream that the Ghost of Barry Goldwater comes back and beats the entire Republican Party with the jawbone of an ass.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I clearly remember that while you didn't necessarily agree with what the GOP did, they at least believed in family and had a sense of basic decency.

      It is a true sign of how far we have come when we get nostalgic about the good ole' days of Dick Nixon.

      More like Barry Goldwater. Nixon was definitely a crook who deserved more than what he got.

      The problem of casting a wide net is that Nixon did not represent the GOP as a whole. And when the Republicans at the time became convinced of his crimes, they were ready to boot his ass out of office.

      The difference is that today's Republicnas are the very definition of cowardice, and will not stand up to the man who now defines their ideology, so it will be up to the American people to elect politicians who have a backbone.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      There are still good Republicans out there, we just don't hear much from them given our conflict-driven news media. Fred Rogers was a life-long Republican, and yet the polar opposite of Trump.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    11. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, get their houseboys. You remember, like Barney Frank's houseboy? The male prostitute he was "mentoriing", who was running a brothel out of Barney's appointment?

      Could not make this stuff up, see http://www.businessinsider.com...

    12. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid they also don't get out much. They certainly did not get elected out of the last set of Republican presidential primary candidates.

    13. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nixon did not represent the GOP as a whole.

      He represented the party as a whole a lot better than Goldwater did. Millions of "Rockefeller Republicans" voted for Johnson, and Goldwater lost in an historic landslide.

      The difference is that today's Republicnas are the very definition of cowardice

      The difference is that Nixon lost the support of the American people, and Republicans were not punished by voters for abandoning him. Trump is very popular with the Republican base, and Republicans that opposed him have been booted by primary voters.

      The problem is not the "courage" of the leaders, it is foolishness of the base.

    14. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I clearly remember that while you didn't necessarily agree with what the GOP did, they at least believed in family and had a sense of basic decency.

      I recall presidents back through Reagan to an extent, though I was fairly young then. Never once have I thought so poorly of a party as I think of the republican party now. They basically are the party of Trump because they are too scared to not be. That might change if he gets a large enough thumping in the mid terms, and it might not. Republicans generally don't run against democrats, but against other republicans and that is the problem, since you have the most extreme determining the winner.

      This primary process as it sits now needs to end permanently. Include all the candidates on the first ballot. Leave the D or R next to their names if you must. Let people rank their choices. You could even do it with scantron and some more bubbles.

      Have those good at math and formal proofs figure out the best algorithm and remove the losers. If a victor is certain, then your done. (Prove it mathematically.) If not, remove those you can, and schedule another vote. Rinse and repeat. Take as many votes as required, particularly for important decisions.

      Everyone votes for all candidates. There is no voting by party. Ideally your down to two or three candidates after the first vote and can finish it in the next. The first vote could return all Ds, all Rs, some mix maybe with a third party or whatever. California apparently already does part of this but doesn't go the extra mile to handle the corner cases where you really need another vote added.

      There are other steps required, but this is a big one. As long as Cadet bone spurs can basically force out most of his republican enemies just by ranting on twitter like he does, that particular party is doomed.

    15. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by 4im · · Score: 1

      it will be up to the American people to elect politicians who have a backbone.

      And brains, please. And of course, morals, honesty, not too much ruthlessness - else you might get a Putin.

    16. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Could we just dig out Eisenhower and put him into office again? Even as a corpse he's more competent than #Tweety.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re: Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is exactly the mentality that gets kids seperated from their families. Entitlement to revenge, dehumanization of another person... This is exactly what you criticize in the other side, yet, it is obvious you'd do the same for your ideals.

    18. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Please explain what Nixon did wrong.

      Recently...
      FBI put spies into an opposition campaign of the current president.
      FBI illegally used FISA to wiretap a campaign
      FBI might have (refuses to answer) paid Russians for opposition research to help a campaign.
      FBI/DOJ tanked an investigation because the person they were investigating was the one they wanted to win.
      The IRS targeted individuals/groups based on political views.

      I keep looking for what Nixon did, but come up with an office break in coverup. I'm not seeing how that would even make the news at this point when the entire intelligence agencies, FBI, DOJ were used to throw an election abusing their power and then refusing to come clean under Congressional subpoenas. Nixon also talked about using the IRS to target people, but Obama actually DID it.

      It appears the DNC are the cowards that are using "national security" to hide what actions they took to attempt to throw an election. I find it interesting that EVERY attempt to make the elections more fair is met by screaming by the DNC.

    19. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last of the vestigial TRUE Republicans are dying or retiring. The brand has been hijacked.

      Thank god. The ""TRUE"" conservatives have reliably failed to conserve anything for a generation. They were far more interested in sticking to the rules of engagement (that there opponent never agreed to, and certainly wasn't going to restrain themselves by) and proving that they were totally-not-racist than actually DOING anything.............and consequentially let the liberals walk all over them.

      Maybe whatever replaces this dying breed will have the stones to stick to any of their convictions, and stop imploding the instant someone pulls the *ist lever on them.

    20. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      harvesting the mod points I never get

      Perhaps that is why you never get them.

    21. Re: Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by pchasco · · Score: 1

      Literally none of that is true. FBI investigated a lead. No one was âoeplantedâ in a campaign. As Trey âoeBenghaziâ Gowdy said: This is what you want your FBI to do. There has been no actual charge that any FISA warrant or unmasking was done improperly, just a bunch of for-show outrage with no facts to back it (because if there were even a whiff of illegality, congressional Republicans would have people in handcuffs). If the FBI wanted Hilary to win, why did they tank her campaign at the last minute by revealing the big nothingburger Weiner laptop reveal, yet not a peep announced or leaked about the Trump campaign investigation which had been ongoing?

    22. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Could we just dig out Eisenhower and put him into office again? Even as a corpse he's more competent than #Tweety.

      Ike could work. What happened to the Republican Party is that they pandered to and encouraged the party of permanent opposition, and blind angry opposition. This leaves their members open to manipulation. Which is why I've called them Crypto - Conservatives for a couple of decades now. From the NeoCons to now rabidly supporting a group who implement decidedly non-conservative policy and lawlessness as a core competency.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    23. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't fuck around with the Knife of Caine. That shit's dangerous, man.

      I'd be good with a standard issue cat-o-nine-tails.

    24. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Nixon did not represent the GOP as a whole.

      He represented the party as a whole a lot better than Goldwater did. Millions of "Rockefeller Republicans" voted for Johnson, and Goldwater lost in an historic landslide.

      That might be true, but your idea that we are nostalgic for Nixon is simply wrong. The entire body of work of Goldwater shows him to be a defender of individual liberties - which is why many crypto conservatives revile him to this day. He was pro-choice and anti-fundamentalist, he was supportive of gays. He also understood that without compromise, there is no governance.

      His philosophy was more geared toward freedom of the individual, rather than state sponsored intrusion. But on matters of actual conservatism, he was correct. His downfall was his tendency toward snarky one-liners.

      That is something to be nostalgic for, not Nixon's criminal legacy.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    25. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Please explain what Nixon did wrong.

      He didn't give your parents birth control.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    26. Re: Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      If the FBI wanted Hilary to win, why did they tank her campaign at the last minute by revealing the big nothingburger Weiner laptop reveal, yet not a peep announced or leaked about the Trump campaign investigation which had been ongoing?

      I've listened to interviews with Comey - particularly one on "Fresh Air", and his trying to rationalize why he reported the re-opening of the Clinton investigation while not mentioning that the Trump campaign was also under investigation, was a really unconvincing tapdance.

      While I believe he is basically a principled individual, he really fucked up big time with that one, he understands that he really fucked up, and has a guilty conscious about his part in placing the current crop of criminals in charge.

      Would it have changed the outcome? Who can say? But it is hard to imagine that it didn't help Trump and his merry band of swamp drainers.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    27. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Could we just dig out Eisenhower and put him into office again? Even as a corpse he's more competent than #Tweety.

      Hell, can we just bring in a clone of Teddy Roosevelt?

    28. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by AlwinBarni · · Score: 2

      There are no perfect solutions in imperfect world.

      Despite some limitations slashdot voting system is OK in most of the cases. Even in hotly debated topics I see rarely some revenge or 'troll' marking due to just not being in favor of a certain point of view, though it does happen. It's a forum to discuss and to get an idea of what people think, not an oracle after all.

    29. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      The problem is not the "courage" of the leaders, it is foolishness of the base.

      It can be two things.

    30. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 1

      It is telling that one has to point to someone who died 15 years ago to give an example of a good Republican.

    31. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would also argue that today's Democrats are more like Goldwater Republicans than the current crop of actual Republicans.

      It is quite sad how far they have fallen from the party of Lincoln to ensuring black people could vote to the hot mess that we have today.

    32. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I would also argue that today's Democrats are more like Goldwater Republicans than the current crop of actual Republicans.

      It is quite sad how far they have fallen from the party of Lincoln to ensuring black people could vote to the hot mess that we have today.

      Good point, and yes. I was a pretty reliable Republican voter at one time. Now? Nah.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    33. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a reminder, about 4% of 2016's voters went with Gary Johnson, and you basically just described him too, in the same breath as Goldwater.

      The right and left wings and the center all think of the 2016 election as a disaster for all Americans, but the pro-freedom faction was actually up to 4% from its usual decade-after-decade hovering around 1%. That only 96% of voters tried to reduce all American's rights instead of the usual 99%, means your "nostalgia" might be spreading.

    34. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The last of the vestigial TRUE Republicans are dying or retiring. The brand has been hijacked.

      They're mirroring the Democrats then, because they've totally exited the building. They've recently moved more far left than the republicans have moved far right.
      Cue the name calling and insults, but here are the simple facts:
      * 25 years ago or less, all the leading democrats declared illegal immigration was bad and needed to stop; you can find the videos of Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama stating this all over the 'net; now many democrats are openly calling for "open borders" and the abolishment of ICE, and those numbers are growing.
      * Democratic leaders were generally against gay marriage until about 8 - 10 years ago (again, videos are out there), now it's simply evil to suggest otherwise.
      * All democrats just 10 years ago would have loudly denounced socialism, and feigned offense at the very accusation; today it's "the new face of the party".
      They've done a 180 on all those counts. Republicans as a whole still pretty much hold the same ideals they did 30 years ago. But to "progressives", those ideals are all "bigoted, privileged, homophobic, sexist, racist, and xenophobic".
      Let's look at what is probably the most telling and meaningful metric of public social attitude: television. Things on television today are far, far, far more risque than they were 20 years ago or more; subjects once taboo are now commonplace, and the language restrictions are all but gone. Society as a whole has moved left. From that perspective, it might seem as the Right is moving more right but in actuality they're pretty much standing still for the most part. After all, it's in the name, conservatism.. meaning resistant to change.

      That all said, I'm fine with Pruitt hitting the road, he was a jackass. Now if we can just get rid of Ajit.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    35. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nixon also didn't have anything like Fox News to back him up. The parties had not been ideological or polarized for a generation. The most reliable primary voters were not extremists on average. The media and public discourse weren't full of conspiracy theories and lies masquerading as truth: the media hadn't become National Enqurier'd. It was harder for a group of dedicated extremists to hijack the party.

    36. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'll concede the point that the party of Lincoln has gone downhill, especially now that it has become the party of Trump... who, by the way, was registered as a Democrat for most of his life.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    37. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, say what you will about Nixon, but at least when people questioned his business dealings he actually released his taxes to prove that he wasn't crook, because "people have got to know whether or not their President is a crook."

      For Trump, we're still waiting for him to fulfill his campaign promise 1.5 years later.

    38. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Rakarra · · Score: 0

      Despite some limitations slashdot voting system is OK in most of the cases.

      I'm fine with the mod-up/mod-down system for the most part. I do think that one account shouldn't have so much power to affect another account, especially through the karma system which is easily exploited by someone with no life. That one account can karma-bomb another into useless oblivion is a design flaw that couldn't possibly be what the coders had in mind, and that's the flaw that should get fixed.

      It's not usually -1 Troll or Flamebait either, it's usually Off-Topic or Redundant that gets used. Things someone could individually look at and think "Well, that's a subjective opinion. I wouldn't have gone that far myself, but maybe you could make the case for it." Something that might look innocent in isolation, but when you gather all the posts and look at them as a group, it's pretty clear what's going on.

      Like I said, I posted almost 20 years on the account without a problem, and now that account is trashed. Slashdot operates on a completely "hands-off" approach to administration, with no way to settle harassment, and that only works as long as you have the perfect system. As we've seen elsewhere, if you have no approach to handling harassment, harassers win. I've had a lot of my preconceptions about communication on the Internet challenged over the last year. I used to hold Slashdot up as a gold standard of discussion, but this site has definitely taken it's lumps of late.

    39. Re: Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      I like Ike.

    40. Re: Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      The days when the war on drugs was in its fledgling infancy is not a rosey point for me, but whatever floats your boat...

    41. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by AlwinBarni · · Score: 1

      Like I said, I posted almost 20 years on the account without a problem, and now that account is trashed. Slashdot operates on a completely "hands-off" approach to administration, with no way to settle harassment, and that only works as long as you have the perfect system. As we've seen elsewhere, if you have no approach to handling harassment, harassers win.

      I see, you might have a point. I thought slashdot editors with unlimited mod points take care of that.

    42. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by tbannist · · Score: 2

      They're mirroring the Democrats then, because they've totally exited the building. They've recently moved more far left than the republicans have moved far right.
      Cue the name calling and insults, but here are the simple facts:

      Most likely people call you names because they think your "simple facts" are just partisan lies.

      * 25 years ago or less, all the leading democrats declared illegal immigration was bad and needed to stop; you can find the videos of Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama stating this all over the 'net; now many democrats are openly calling for "open borders" and the abolishment of ICE, and those numbers are growing.

      I think it's telling that you didn't list any names when you claimed "many democrats(sic)" where calling for open borders. When I looked for Democrats who were calling for open borders, do you know what I found? Republicans who say Democrats are calling for open borders. Maybe it's just the skeptic in me talking, but I'm not inclined to take the word of Republican politicians and pundits on what the other party actually wants.

      * Democratic leaders were generally against gay marriage until about 8 - 10 years ago (again, videos are out there), now it's simply evil to suggest otherwise.

      You know, that's not actually a left wing position, there are right wing parties in other countries that realized that treating other people as their equals works better than constantly trying to limit who qualifies as fully human. Also, treating other humans as less than human is pretty much the definition of evil.

      All democrats just 10 years ago would have loudly denounced socialism, and feigned offense at the very accusation; today it's "the new face of the party".

      So given your statement, I understand that you weren't old enough to vote 10 years ago.

      Let's look at what is probably the most telling and meaningful metric of public social attitude: television. Things on television today are far, far, far more risque than they were 20 years ago or more; subjects once taboo are now commonplace, and the language restrictions are all but gone. Society as a whole has moved left. From that perspective, it might seem as the Right is moving more right but in actuality they're pretty much standing still for the most part. After all, it's in the name, conservatism.. meaning resistant to change.

      No, just no. Your opinions are just too ridiculous. In fact, both the Democrats and the Republicans have moved to the right over the last 20 years. You could figure that out if you wanted to by looking at what policy positions they supported, but you'd rather cherry pick a few things that you think support your desired answer like a clueless child would. When you've conducted (or at least read) some longitudinal studies that show whether and if so what shift in the policies supported by each political party has taken place, then you can come back and try to pretend that you're an adult again.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    43. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Most likely people call you names because they think your "simple facts" are just partisan lies.

      Oh yes, and **their** partisan uninformed opinions totally justify their immature, nasty behavior. The ends justifies the means, does it?

      I think it's telling that you didn't list any names when you claimed "many democrats(sic)" where calling for open borders. When I looked for Democrats who were calling for open borders, do you know what I found? Republicans who say Democrats are calling for open borders. Maybe it's just the skeptic in me talking, but I'm not inclined to take the word of Republican politicians and pundits on what the other party actually wants.

      Just like democrats didn't back socialism before, but only now they do? Sure, not all the democrats are calling for open borders, and it's been exaggerated; but there is a disturbingly growing contingent that is doing just that. https://cis.org/Feere/Report-O...
      I'm pretty sure these people don't vote R.

      You know, that's not actually a left wing position, there are right wing parties in other countries that realized that treating other people as their equals works better than constantly trying to limit who qualifies as fully human. Also, treating other humans as less than human is pretty much the definition of evil.

      The point is, the left changed on that position, far more than the right. We're talking about what changed.
      But besides that, denying traditional marriage, but not domestic partnerships or civil unions isn't particularly "less than human" treatment.
      Leave the hyperbole at home, kids.

      So given your statement, I understand that you weren't old enough to vote 10 years ago.

      Not only is your statement non-nonsensical, you illustrate your fundamental lack or unwillingness to understand.
      Democrats have often been accused of socialist tendencies, I've seen that firsthand over the past decades. It was also emphatically denied with no small amount of offense; today it's declared the new face of the party.

      No, just no. Your opinions are just too ridiculous. In fact, both the Democrats and the Republicans have moved to the right over the last 20 years. You could figure that out if you wanted to by looking at what policy positions they supported, but you'd rather cherry pick a few things that you think support your desired answer like a clueless child would. When you've conducted (or at least read) some longitudinal studies that show whether and if so what shift in the policies supported by each political party has taken place, then you can come back and try to pretend that you're an adult again.

      Hysterical. Democrats have moved to the right? You're not even fucking credible. When you cannot accept the obvious but reject it as "opinions" because it doesn't fit with your contorted confirmation bias, you may have a psychosis. And oh, there's the first insult, insinuating I'm a "clueless child". Well, there's a shock. It's always the Leftists that throws the first stone, isn't it? That's fucking hilarious, because in reality I'm very likely closer to twice your age and have long shed the blind ignorance and smugness that endears youth to idealistic liberalism.
      Nothing has moved to the right over the years. Nothing. Not one fucking thing. I "cherry picked" nothing, but cited the most prominent, significant changes in society.
      So go ahead, name some things that are now more conservative than liberal in the last 20 years.
      Can you do it like an adult this time, or are you going to try to condescend to me again?

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    44. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I picked Eisenhower because he is the most recent decent president. There have been some before, but none after.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    45. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by shanen · · Score: 1

      There's no sense in feeding such trolls as 456626. It's possible that he came by his stupidity naturally or that he's just proudly ignorant, but the rant is sufficiently long and tedious to indicate he's just a professional trell paid to fake it. Of course his lies are easily refuted by the annoying realities, but that has no effect on sophists.

      In terms of actual solutions, the karma on Slashdot should be extended and enhanced into some meaningful form of EPR (Earned Public Reputation). Proper EPR would actually be a multidimensional concept based on the interplay between public actions and public reactions. I think it should be biased in favor of positive behaviors, both in terms of being easier to give positive feedback and in terms of encouraging people to behave in constructive and positive ways. If someone like 456626 wants to rant and lie that way, then his EPR would evolve in a negative direction, rendering 456626 less and less visible.

      The default visibility setting should be slightly positive, though I think I would want to set mine higher, and other people might want to set theirs lower so they could see and play with the trells. If a trell like 456626 tries to shove his tripe in my face, his attempted reply would be confronted with a warning like "Your low EPR means that your reply will not be visible to the person you are replying to. Perhaps you should write your comment elsewhere, such as the top level of this discussion." If the trell insisted on replying anyway, then that's okay, but it would get a preface such as "Not a sincere reply, since 456626 was warned that the following reply is not visible to the ostensible recipient and no dialog is possible." I call this wrinkle "self-discreditation". Why should I have to block the trells when they can block themselves?

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    46. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Guess you made one too many post that crossed the line. Sucks to be you!

    47. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      Your excellent thought mirrors that expressed in the penultimate paragraph here:

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/pruitt-wont-be-needing-those-tactical-pants-anymore-but-trump-might/2018/07/05/13930b86-80a8-11e8-b0ef-fffcabeff946_story.html

      But I think a third explanation may account for Pruitt’s longevity in the face of insurmountable scandal. While the media, and the Democrats, were getting all worked up about the mattress and the lotion and Chick-fil-A and Disneyland and the phone booth and the bulletproof seats and the rest of Pruitt’s penny-ante corruption, relatively little attention was going to the emoluments, which are of much greater value: Ivanka Trump’s trademarks and Jared Kushner’s investors and foreign governments pumping millions into Trump properties.

    48. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, the GOP of my youth was one of unfettered freedom of economy, what's left today is unfettered kleptocracy.

      We didn't get here out of nowhere. The current situation is the result of 50 years of romancing the white christian supremacist wing of the party. Conservatives can't win on their ideas alone, so they needed the neoconfederates - reagan's "big tent." The problem is, nazis don't give a fuck about your values, they aren't allies, at best they are vampires and they've sucked all the life out of the party.

      True story - democrats mostly congregate on the same area of the policy spectrum, republicans are all over the map. Many like socialized medicine, many like protectionism, etc. Its not policy that unites the republican party, its racism.

    49. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure you wouldn't actually like ike. Here's the inscription on his tomb:

      Every gun made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. ... This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

    50. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by tbannist · · Score: 1

      Young child or old fool. It hardly makes a difference.

      It's kind of sad that you don't understand the difference between "a new face" and "the face". Did you forget your reading glasses?

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    51. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because the actual anti-trump - a real evangelical who builds housing for poor people not rich, who divested himself of his peanut farm, is on the record as being embarrassed by having lustful thoughts and operates an actual world peace foundation is not decent.

    52. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What's not to like about that? It means that tax money taken from the people to fund silly wars is wrong, and if you have to tax people in the first place, make sure that tax money is spent at home to further the progress of your own people.

      Fact is that Eisenhower laid the foundation for the steady increase in prosperity for all people in the US that lasted until well into the 1970s. Only Reagan's completely insane bullshit in the 80s stopped this when tax laws were skewed to put the burden on the average man to let the rich get richer to silly proportions. What we need is to get back to tax laws of the 50s to regulate this back to saner levels.

      Working must be the way to prosperity. If you have to be rich to become rich, the american dream is over and what you replaced it with is a money aristocracy.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    53. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He represented the party as a whole a lot better than Goldwater did. Millions of "Rockefeller Republicans" voted for Johnson, and Goldwater lost in an historic landslide.

      A vote does not a representation make. The people vote based on what the media tells them about the candidates, and the media mostly repeats the lies that the candidates, parties and extremely powerful and influential people tell them. The media did an incredible disservice to the Republicans throughout the primary process in this last election cycle for example, as most all of the big news orgs colluded to ensure that Trump was on the ballot, because It Was Her Turn.

      People vote based on what they understand. If most of the population is that easily fooled by these two-party shenanigans, what do you do to "make the electorate better"? You either:

      1. Remove a significant amount of the populace. Can't happen.
      2. Significantly reduce the fraction of the populace that is allowed to vote to those who can "make better decisions". Those who use the media to their advantage will shout "racism" and "discrimination". Can't happen.

      So... have fun while you can in the land of Idiocracy.

    54. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't me - I have no mod points.

    55. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I abandoned my 20-year-old account about a year ago and only post anon now because of that. Slashdot's absentee admins don't particularly care that their mod system can be exploited for users to attack each other.

      Pro tip: don't use Slashdot's Relationship system - or at least don't "foe" people. I lost 3 accounts to mod-bombing when I still made sure people knew what I thought about them without the need to tell them. With my current I have only changed my behavior in that one way - still maxed out Karma after 5 years. Just a few "5 downmods in a row" incidents.

    56. Re:Hypocrisy, thy name is Boshevik Republican by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Here ya go. Close enough?

      http://freebeacon.com/politics...

      Note that nowhere did I actually complain about society's move towards increased liberalism, I'm just observing that it has, compared to the '40s, '50s, '60s, '70's, '80s..

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  32. Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Yeah, there are some of the poeple you are speaking of

    Then there are the single issue voters - like anti-abortionists/Evangelicals and the folks who have been convinced that illegal immigration is this HUGE problem. And the NRA fanatical gun supporters that want no gun control at all - on any level.

    They live and breath those issues and don't give a shit about anything else.

    I live in a Waffle House state and I can tell you that I'm surrounded by those people. Some are in my family. Holidays are real fun because I hear, "I love Trump!!" from others and approval from around the room.

    Democrats have been so effectively demonized by Fox News and the conservative pundits that if one were the Republican nominee, he could make a political ad that showed him half naked with a half naked teen on his lap, an empty bottle of Jack Daniels and him saying, "I have an R by my name. You're gonna vote for me no matter what! Moron!" and then flip them off.

    The Republicans would all fall in line and vote for their "team".

    Just remember, Roy Moore (R) - the accused child molester in Alabama - was very close to winning Alabama's Senate seat. Just the fact that he was close tells you of the mentality of those people.

    Trump is an adulterer, liar, total buffoon and he won.

    Those people WILL vote for him again. I KNOW for a fact.

    1. Re:Evangelicals by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      *nodding*

      The term 'myopians' comes to mind, if you follow me.

    2. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats have been so effectively demonized by Fox News

      They demonize themselves. Between Maxine Waters and abolish ICE what the hell is an average person supposed to make of that party?

    3. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I do love the Abolish ICE thing. "We're not anti-police! We just want to abolish all police! Open borders! Let in all refugees! Don't let police arrest minorities! All crime by non-whites is legal! Why is no one coming under our tent?"

    4. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure, because that is what fox news TELLS them the Democratic party is all about.

      And... they believe it like a bunch of helpless rubes who cannot every stand the pain of doing a Google search and having reality jump up in their face and scare them with facts that fox news has not spoon fed to them

    5. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fox doesn't need to "tell" anyone anything other than what democrats say. Or are you saying Kirsten Gilibrand, Alexandria Cortez, Bill de Blasio, and others are lying? Even in the clinton emails talked about supporting open borders.

      Democrats really do have a problem of being quoted.

      http://thehill.com/opinion/imm...

    6. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      lol, so you support fox news lies with an OPINION piece by a fox news commentator

      frickin hilarious

    7. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    8. Re:Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot that there are also many of us gun enthusiast democrats that just decide to stay home because our party wants to put us in prison for owning certain types of guns.

    9. Re:Evangelicals by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      Well, there seems to be a wide range of views within the Democratic party. Most of the Republicans however have all gotten behind Trump, even many who were initially opposed to him. Bizarre views from some Democrats can usually be seen as outliers, whereas bizarre views by Republicans seem to be increasingly mainstream.

      FYI, I am not registered with either party.

    10. Re: Evangelicals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your posts sounds a lot like what lefties scream "whataboutism" at.

    11. Re:Evangelicals by shilly · · Score: 1

      The horror.
      They won't allow you to own a tank either. Or a nuke.
      Whatever *is* the world coming to?

  33. How is this "News for nerds"? by toonces33 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Too many of the articles seem to be things designed to "engage" people, and aren't terribly informative. And by "engage" I mean get people to start arguing.

    1. Re:How is this "News for nerds"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because standing against Trump is the duty of all thinking people.

    2. Re:How is this "News for nerds"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lmao

    3. Re:How is this "News for nerds"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? You found someone to argue Pruitt was doing a good job?

    4. Re:How is this "News for nerds"? by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      I wish Slashdot would create a politics spin-off. I know there's politics.slashdot, but I think it would be better off as a separate sister site. Same credentials, separate karma (akin to StackOverflow).

      Both sites can run the same article, but the /. one would focus on any tech components and Slashpol (Polidot. Slashpoli. dashdot?) would be about societal implications/mud-slinging. As an example, take an article about the possibility of raising the minimum fuel economy: /. would ideally discuss the merits of the proposed standard vs. current (CO2 delta, feasibility, exemptions) while Slashpol would discuss the political motivations and fling mud at each other.

      Slashpol can still have the math, but any mud-slinging on /. should be marked Offtopic.

  34. Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by shanen · · Score: 0

    Mostly just concurring with your comments, but in terms of solutions, I am trying to speculate how we can divide and conquer Trump's mob of marching morons in a way similar to how he divided and conquered America (even if Trump was only following Putin's lead and advice).

    My current theory is that maybe Trump's supporters can be divided on the family separation issue. I think Trump's craziest followers agree with locking up kids to the point that they would actually chant "Lock kids up" if they heard it at one of Trump's rallies. However I think there are less crazy followers of Trump who would draw the line at that point.

    Unfortunately, it would be hard to do the experiment at an actual Trump rally, but maybe it could be simulated at one of the protests against separating the kids? What if each of the protestors has a piece of paper with Trump's face on it and they use it for a "Word from the OTHER side" chant? Just a minute or two of chanting somewhere in the protest? I think the video of a mob of angry Trump faces chanting "Lock kids up, LOCK KIDS UP!" would have the potential to go viral--and it might even get into the heads of some of Trump's followers.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, So, instead of convincing people that your ideas are better or coming up with better solutions to help people and win their votes. Your idea is to act insane in hopes of dividing voters?

      Top fucking kek. Please continue acting insane so that we can turn that 5-4 into 6-3. RBG looking mighty frail.

    2. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, it would be hard to do the experiment at an actual Trump rally, but maybe it could be simulated at one of the protests against separating the kids? What if each of the protestors has a piece of paper with Trump's face on it and they use it for a "Word from the OTHER side" chant? Just a minute or two of chanting somewhere in the protest? I think the video of a mob of angry Trump faces chanting "Lock kids up, LOCK KIDS UP!" would have the potential to go viral--and it might even get into the heads of some of Trump's followers.

      In other words, a false-flag operation? No. Just no. Very bad idea.

      Stick to the truth. It wins in the end.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    3. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She'll outlive you, traitor.

    4. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by blindseer · · Score: 0

      I think Trump's craziest followers agree with locking up kids to the point that they would actually chant "Lock kids up" if they heard it at one of Trump's rallies.

      If that's what you think then you are insane.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    5. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by shanen · · Score: 1

      Not at all, but your reply mostly makes me wonder if you're one of Putin's professionals. Let's pretend you just don't understand the suggestion.

      A false flag would involve a sincere pretense of flying some other flag. There is NO way to claim that the sarcastic intention would not be obvious. Well, actually I can imagine one way, but I've never seen a video of Trumpsters wearing Trump masks en masse. Maybe I shouldn't give them the idea? They might like it.

      My idea actually came from my extremely minor participation in a June-30th protest against family separation and in favor of keeping children with their parents. Have you [not just ClickOnThis, but anyone reading this] done at least as much?

      The most effective part of the protest was the reading of victims' stories. There were various other activities of lesser interest, and I've already forgotten most of the details. The LEAST effective part was the chanting, but that's actually a good thing. We don't want to be part of an angry chanting mob, even when protesting against something as horrible as imprisoning children for the possible crimes of their parents.

      By the way, you do know that seeking asylum is NOT a crime, right?

      We seem to be dealing with a lot of shifting standards of "justice" these days. In criminal trials, we're supposed to have a strong presumption of innocence and a high standard of proof. In civil trials things can sink to a preponderance of evidence and the penalties are highly negotiable, to put it mildly. Returning to the original story, Pruitt's standard for his behavior was apparently "Well, it might be legal and I wanna do it anyway."

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    6. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by shanen · · Score: 1

      Either you are willfully ignorant or blind to reality. Or a professional troll paid to fake it. Or you might even be one of Stephen Miller's personal sock puppets.

      Go watch some of Trump's rallies. If you are sane, then I doubt you have the stomach to watch the entire thing.

      On the other hand, I do think everyone is more or less insane. The craziest one is the guy who's insisting he's perfectly sane. I bet Trump has made that claim, though I haven't heard it in the blizzard of insanity he spews.

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    7. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      First of all, a tip of the hat to you for participating in the protests.

      For the record, I am most definitely not one of Putin's "professionals." Nor am I at all a supporter of Trump and his administration. Very much the opposite.

      My original concern about your "lock kids up" protest is that although the sarcasm of it may be obvious to many, there will be those who try to spin it as the "other side" misrepresenting who Trumpists are. On reflection, I'm thinking your idea may not be such a bad one after all, if carried out briefly, and with an obvious display of parody.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    8. Re: Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, Obama locked and separated them. Only when Repugs do it do we protest. We are hypocrits.

    9. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not as old as dirt.

    10. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by shanen · · Score: 1

      My feeling is that 15 or 20 seconds of video should make the point, but with practice, it could be juicier. Start out as a coherent chant and devolve into unintelligible howling from the mob.

      The goal is to make SOME of the Trumpsters think about the bandwagon they are riding, and maybe decide they don't want to be there after all. Having said that, I really would like to know what percentage of them actually would sincerely chant "Lock kids up!"

      Not sure it belongs here, but I just composed a little rant about justice:

      It's a funny thing about justice... There are different kinds of justice and various standards. For example, If you're a vet, then you must remember the UCMJ. In the case of an actual crime in civilian jurisdictions in normal America, there is a strong presumption of innocence and the standard of proof is quite high. In a civil matter, the preponderance of the evidence can be sufficient and the punishment is highly negotiable, to say the least.

      Interesting example just came up. Scott Pruitt was using a different standard of justice: The "It's probably legal and I want to do it!" standard. Took a long time to catch up to him.

      Shaky as that seems, it's probably firmer than #PresidentTweety's grasp of the law. Seems like Trump's idea is to grab Lady Justice by the pussy and shake her until she does what he wants. I don't think that's going to work well after Mueller gets her deposition...

      --
      Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    11. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most Americans are blaming the separations on the parents and not Trump which there's quite a legitimate leg to stand on that stance.

      It primarily boils down to the fact that the asylum seekers aren't from Mexico. I can, and likely many Trump supporters can also understand, that if the asylum seekers were fleeing Mexico then illegal border crossings would and should be met with more compassion. The problem is that the asylum seekers are not coming from Mexico. They had already eluded the threat to the by the time they've reached Mexico. At this point there's no reason for them to illegally cross into the United States to request asylum. Go to a US consulate or embassy and make the asylum request, or travel to a border crossing and make the request there. The request will be assessed and either accepted or denied. However, by illegally crossing into the US and becoming indistinguishable from an illegal immigrant it really makes the asylum request sound like a "oh I got caught crossing so I'm using an asylum request" type of scenario.

      The fact of the matter is that we, Americans, do not allow children to remain with a guardian if that guardian is arrested as doing so would be tantamount to jailing the child for the acts committed by the parent. The child becomes a ward of the state if there's no suitable family willing to take care of the child. Likewise, we do not let parents go when they committed a crime just because they have a child. What has happened on the southern border with illegal crossings is no different.

    12. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm a stable genius"

    13. Re: Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are misinformed. Obama detained families together, gave them a court date, and then sent them on their way together expecting them to return for their court appearance.

      Obama was much tougher on the border than a lot of people give him credit for and families were being torn apart by deportation after the fact. DACA helped stem that problem but of course that is now done for. He did not take the kids and make them orphans however.

      Trump's Admin is literally taking people at ports of entry legally requesting asylum and taking their kids and throwing them in jail before being deported. He is even trying to deprive them of any hearing in court which essentially bans anyone from requesting asylum because you can't do it from your country of origin.

      Of course Trump is trying to lump all these people in with Mexicans crossing the border any point which is only a misdemeanor which again wouldn't require separation much less orphaning of children.

    14. Re:Can we divide and conquer the marching morons? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We do not separate children from parents guilty of a misdemeanor. A lot of people are being arrested at ports of entry where they are legally requesting asylum. You glossed right over that fact. Parents bear some responsibility but the U.S. is going to be a much better place for someone from Honduras, or El Salvador, or Columbia, or any number of other countries where they are coming from. The U.S. made a lot of these regions the warzones that they are today through our war on drugs in the 70s an 80s. Then you have the stones to blame the parents for trying to get their children to safety?

      Many of these children already had family in the states as well, they were not permitted to stay with them while the parents dealt with the consequences of their misdemeanor and worst of all they didn't even bother in many circumstances to document which kid belonged to which parents. The parents in many cases weren't even allowed to say goodbye. Now they will have to take DNA tests to be reunited with their family that is now emotionally traumatized even more than they already were.

  35. Vows of poverty and politicians versus statesmen by shanen · · Score: 2

    You're hitting on a serious problem with America's political system there. If you want competent politicians on both sides, and if you agree that the issues are complicated, then where do you store the losers of the last election? That's on the theory that they were actually competent to run for office in the first place.

    For elections to be meaningful, we need more than one choice, regardless of how long the incumbent has been "studying" the issues. We need some politicians who want to serve the public interests, not just people who are so rich that they don't care about losing and doing nothing until the next election. We especially don't need politicians who are just trying to rig the game to make themselves and their friends richer.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  36. Lots of Trumptards with moderation points today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I firmly believe that many of Trump's base are his base not because they like Trump so much, but because they hated Obama and all Democrats and used their ballots for revenge, and to hell what it did to the Country, let it all burn to the ground so far as they're concerned; it's the ugly underside of having a democratic republic, nothing prevents people from abusing their right to vote in such a way that they use it to cause damage just out of spite. I also firmly believe that many of Trump's supporters are in so deep now that they don't think they can do and about-face without losing everything, so they continue to hold their noses, and that members of the GOP who are suddenly retiring from office are doing so because they can't hold their noses anymore, but aren't going to 'sell out' their own party (although ironically, they did exactly that by supporting Trump as a candidate).

    Wow. The parent comment is reasonable and probably correct for the most part, but is being down-moderated as "Trolling"? Really?

    It looks like a lot of Trumptards have moderation privileges today (and unlike the parent post, I don't feel the need to coddle their precious feelings) and are doing their best to use them to silence criticism of their orange god.

    I wonder if we should start blocking IP addresses in Trumptardia (the American Outback, or in other words, rural counties where critical thinking exceeds the mental capacity of the entire hick population). See, unlike the parent's comment, I don't sugar coat it. But hey, at least if I'm modded a Troll, that's one less moderation point that can be abused to silence more thoughtful posts.

  37. DOJ needs to watch his ars because he is a leech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He has shown he expects to leech off department funds, incur high expenses and bill to the department and basically sap as much as he can get out of who/what he works for.

    You can imagine the money and backroom deals he has had over the years as he was paid to fight the EPA for any corporation which hired him.

    Good riddance.

  38. Yeah the guy was awful read the new yorker article by citylivin · · Score: 1

    There was a great new yorker article about him and his "philosophies".

    https://www.newyorker.com/maga...

    like he sued the EPA 14 times before he became the administrator and plenty of other horrible industry funded activities. Literally the last and most corrupt and paranoid person you could get to run that agency...

    --
    As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
  39. Re:Prediction: hysterectomy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She added 10 years to her face following her recent hysterectomy.

  40. environmentalist vs. conservationist by blindseer · · Score: 0

    Nobody is a more rabid environmentalist than the hunter who wants to protect their land or the fisherman who wants to protect their livelihood.

    I disagree with the term "environmentalist". I believe that a more accurate term is "conservationist". A conservationist believes that humans are part of the environment. This is shown in that a conservationist sees managed hunting as part of preserving a healthy environment. An environmentalist believes that humans are outside of the environment, that any human activity is harmful. An environmentalist seems to think that humans need to be removed from the environment, that "the environment" is something people observe through a window and visit once in a while. That kind of thinking is not that the environment is to be a zoo, something caged off by humans. That kind of thinking is getting humans to place themselves in cages.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:environmentalist vs. conservationist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Because F the libruls! The environment is a librul term! Conservation is a conservative term!

      Have you ever read 1984? Did you understand the point of that book?

    2. Re:environmentalist vs. conservationist by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      This is only because people have been changing the meanings of those words over time. I think the vast majority of environmentalists are what you call a conservationist, they do not want to get rid of all people. You look at a few outliers and assume this represents the whole.

  41. You get a tiny little win today Progtards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reset the X Days Since Last Win poster. Tomorrow begins a new loosing streak.

  42. LOL. Using crew to point to corruption by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    is a true case of kettle calling pot black.
    Seriously, CREW is about as corrupt as they get.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  43. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His replacement, Andrew Wheeler, has been involved in numerous EPA battles as a lobbyist. He will have to recuse himself, or the Senate will have to write a huge list of exceptions before swearing him in and wipe their dirty assholes on the US Constitution.

    In November we'll see if the average American has started to give a shit about what goes on in D.C.

    1. Re:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by Iamthecheese · · Score: 2

      the Senate will have to write a huge list of exceptions before swearing him in and wipe their dirty assholes on the US Constitution.

      ...sounds like a Tuesday on Capital Hill.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    2. Re:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Andrew Wheeler was a coal lobbyist so we can expect more of the same with possibly less drama. Trump has no regard for the EPA which is why he chose Pruitt to destroy it in the first place. If they vetted Pruitt and decided he was okay why would it be any different for Wheeler?

    3. Re:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Andrew Wheeler was a coal lobbyist so we can expect more of the same with possibly less drama.

      He was also a cheese lobbyist. He's not really that closely tied to coal, but he does love money.

      If they vetted Pruitt and decided he was okay why would it be any different for Wheeler?

      I'm not so confident that Pruitt was vetted. I suspect that this administration didn't have a grand plan and have been winging it this entire time.

  44. Good first step to eliminating the EPA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and rolling the functions back under the Interior Department. Since Nixon created the department by executive order to clamp down on some of the most egregious abuses in the Democrat states it has been nothing but an bureaucratic nightmare. Time for another executive order and confirmation by Congress to reform it out of existence.

  45. fucking yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MAGA

    1. Re:fucking yes by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      and Vlad Smiles...or more likely gets an erection, and cues up the "pee tape" yet again... All Going according to plan...

  46. Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Though i didnt care about his policies, i learned from the article that all we have to do is threaten bodily harm to his family and whammo slammo we effect change. Why does this not sound so good for our side?

    1. Re: Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Civil war is probably on the horizon....

  47. Excellent analogy by bjdevil66 · · Score: 1

    Just like vaccines, right-wing ideologues can't imagine a world where acid rain, lead in gasoline and paint (i.e. just about everywhere), and Superfund sites that are decades away from being completely cleaned up.

    Maybe we should kill the IRS too, because they're evil according to __fill-in-the-blank__

    I'm a registered GOP voter, but sometimes the more ignorant, emotionally-driven members of our party really embarrass the rest of us.

    1. Re:Excellent analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No offense, but the more ignorant, emotionally-driven members currently have your party by the nuts.

    2. Re:Excellent analogy by jbengt · · Score: 0

      Please don't vote Republican in the next election. You have to send a message to the Republicans to get off the Trump train, for the good of the Republican party and, more importantly, for the country.

    3. Re:Excellent analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a registered GOP voter, but sometimes the more ignorant, emotionally-driven members of our party really embarrass the rest of us.

      On the other hand, it's nice to hear that not all the reasonable people were purged from the Republican Party.

      - From someone who used to be GOP when he was younger, then decided to just go Independent.

    4. Re:Excellent analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly what you described can be found in the left as well. Admit it, both parties have been taken over by the exact same kinds of people. They just have different methods to get their way. Republican businesses (yes, it is the businesses leading things in both parties, not the people) employ the tactic of buying laws and buying candidates outright. Democratic businesses instead, go straight to the media(or already are the media) to simply badmouth things they don't like and things that won't ensure money goes where they want it to go. Both are led by money. Neither have actual citizens in mind with their policies. Republicans buy out legislation to gouge internet customers, pollute when it suits them, and make trade deals that screw the entire rest of the nation to enrich a small handful of companies.. Democrats take to the media to ridicule anyone not democratic, and describe them as somehow both filthy rich, and dirt poor; smart enough to control major parts of the country and world, but uneducated and dumb. They parade any disaster as a chance to lock down rights and freedoms because reasons, and make mountains of money with industries where the product is control of people.

  48. Kim Kardashian? by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

    We might finally find a purpose for the existence of Kim Kardashian. Trump should make her the new EPA chief.
    Sure she won't be great at it, but she'll be less bad than any other Trump pick.

    1. Re:Kim Kardashian? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That crack is bigger than the San Andreas Fault Line. It's so big you could drain the swamp into it, and all of Florida too.

  49. Hey, Pruitt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have to illegally falsify meeting records because it would be really embarrassing for the American public to know who you're really meeting with, one has to ask: who were you actually working for? You're not clear on the concept that federal employees are supposed to work for the American citizens???

  50. Re:amicusNYCL = fake name massive human fail by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
    I am the Eggman,

    They are the Eggmen,

    I am the Walrus! Koo Koo ka Joo! ah Koo Koo ka Joo!

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  51. Obama denuclearized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not why he got the Prize and you know it. He denuclearized several countries including ours. You could look that shit up if you ACTUALLY cared but you just wanna shit on the black dude. Your dumbass can't even fix your stupid phone.

  52. racists gonna race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I knew someone would jump on that and here you are!

    We give you examples and you blow them off just like you did in your second sentence. You act like there aren't videos of your nationalists, tea partiers, and other deplorables marching alongside Nazis in several states. You constantly go on about all the bad guys when the evening news just shows another crazy conservatard shooting up a school or a mall. The evidence is there. Thousands of videos on Youtube. Somehow though all a liberal conspiracy to make thousands of fake news videos. You guys aren't racist, no siree, those black kids in georgia just magically ended up in those trees last year. Google shit, I ain't doing it for ya. And if YOU, in particular, are getting so worked up about being a racist twat, then A) police your team, they're giving YOU a bad name, and B) you have internalized some bad shit man, and it's trying to get out, meaning you either are racist or want to be racist. It's called projection. So if you aren't Projecting, you need to be Ejecting the nazis out of your party instead of voting them in. That also happened. A California district IIRC. Google that shit too. I mean, I know you won't because you don't actually care. You're just tired of being called poopypants even though you literally have poop in your pants. Change your pants, stop shitting in them, or own that shit. Either way, shut the fuck up.

    1. Re:racists gonna race by dog77 · · Score: 0

      You gave examples of racism that are condemned by the Republican party and any significant conservative leader and most of the population.

      I am guessing that you are referring to the Patrick Little who ran for senate in California as a Republican and got 18% approval of likely voters. I don't know the poll and whether the people that were polled were aware of his anti-semitic views and who these people are. I imagine you don't either. Here is a link about it https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch... In the link it cites the following statement from the California Republican spokesman Matt Fleming:

      Mr. Little has never been an active member of our party. I do not know Mr. Little and I am not familiar with his positions. But in the strongest terms possible, we condemn anti-semitism and any other form of religious bigotry, just as we do with racism, sexism or anything else that can be construed as a hateful point of view.

      You told me to shut up, but I am not the one spewing hate.

    2. Re:racists gonna race by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      No true Scotsman. Look it up.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  53. *Actually* NPPs are given be previous winners. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Actually, the Nobel Peace Prize is not a real Nobel Prize. Its winners are chosen by all the orevious winners. The entire thing is a joke.

    Yeah, Obama's gonna play a major role in picking the next one.
    And HE didn'd "denuclearize" shit!
    He's just one figurehead at the front of the ship. His purpose was/is decorative. And distractive. While the ship is actually steered by the one behind the wheel and commanded by the captain. (Like Darth Cheney in JarJar Bush years.}

  54. Delusional standards of justice? by shanen · · Score: 1

    That's possible, but I actually agree when Chomsky says that Nixon was the last actually liberal president. Don't forget he came from California, where he was apparently a better governor than Saints Reagan or Schwarzenegger. Nixon also used a special kind of impartial briefing to guide him in difficult decisions? Maybe Brandeis? I actually think Nixon believed in justice but had delusions of grandeur that misled him and ultimately negated his good ideas.

    It's a funny thing about justice... There are different kinds of justice and various standards. For example, If you're a vet, then you must remember the UCMJ. In the case of an actual crime in civilian jurisdictions in normal America, there is a strong presumption of innocence and the standard of proof is quite high. In a civil matter, the preponderance of the evidence can be sufficient and the punishment is highly negotiable, to say the least.

    In today's story, we see that Scott Pruitt was using a different standard of justice: The should-be-patented Scott-Pruitt "It's probably legal and I want to do it!" standard. Took a long time to catch up to him.

    Shaky as that seems, it's probably firmer than #PresidentTweety's grasp of the law. Seems like Trump's idea is to grab Lady Justice by the pussy and shake her until she does what he wants. Let's see if Mueller can help her file a few charges...

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  55. Only one response for this: by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1
  56. Can't find any insig Iht here into why it happened by shanen · · Score: 1

    Looking for some insight into the reason why Pruitt was apparently fired now. The most plausible theory I've heard so far is that General Kelly wanted to tie up a few loose ends before he leaves, and Pruitt was the closest thing to a gangrene-infested wound in the body politic. If it's true, I'm actually surprised Kelly still has that much influence.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  57. Cynical viewpoint. Synonym: Corrupt; Politician by seniorcoder · · Score: 1

    Oh gosh! A corrupt politician?
    Who could have forseen this?
    But why are we focusing specifically on Donald Drumpf?
    Aren't all politicians corrupt?

  58. There is mass hysteria abound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously if you real down trumps part of literally everything. Heâ(TM)s actually trying his best and doing well. Iâ(TM)m being serious.

  59. Cesspool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, /. has become a cesspool of Trump vs anti-Trump trolls. I've been visiting and commenting fairly regularly since 2000 and I don't think I'll be coming back here anymore.

  60. OKeefenokee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wait til the dumbasses in OK elect him as governor or senator.

  61. As if by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Joe Q Public is too fucking afraid to actually stand up for their rights. Interferes with couch potatoin', video gayming, narcissistic NIMBY, self entitled selfishness.

  62. "They were both unfit for the office." by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "They were both unfit for the office." To me, that seems correct. For example, Hillary was amazingly poor at dealing with conflicts.

    True: "Who do I think will cause less damage" should NOT be what determines who you vote for.

    1. Re:"They were both unfit for the office." by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Bernie-loyalist Democrats thinking like that is part of what got us Trump. You can talk all you want about how people should vote in some ideal democracy, but we have to make do with the democracy we have - and in America, that means acknowledging that once the primaries are over there are only two viable candidates, and a vote for one is a vote against the other.

    2. Re:"They were both unfit for the office." by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I think there should be a "none of the assholes" option that start the primaries over, just with those two goofballs out of the race for good. I.e. for life.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  63. Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ding Dong, The Witch is Dead!

    Scott Pruitt is gone! And the people danced and sang! ...and Pruitt is replaced by someone even worse. Just kidding! Wait...

  64. Re:amicusNYCL = fake name massive human fail by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

    I didn't read your post, APK, but you're a lying cunt and this is the only response you deserve.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  65. Public masturbation of 456626 by shanen · · Score: 1

    Z^-1

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  66. ATM CARDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NEED A HACKED ATM CARD WITH PIN?
    We Sell Physical Loaded ATM Cards . It Is A Cloned Card That Can Be Used To Withdraw Cash At Any ATM Machine. This Cards Comes In Visa/MasterCard. Therefore It Works At Any ATM Machine That Accept Visa/MasterCard Worldwide.

    CAN I USE THIS READY MADE ATM CARD TO BUY STUFF IN STORES? OR ONLINE SHOPPING? PAY BILLS?
    Yes, With This Physical ATM Card, You Can Use It To Pay Stuff At Stores Through POS. With This ATM Card Information, You Can Use It Online To Pay Bills Or Do Online Shopping. When You Order For This Card, Full Information About The Card Will Be Given To You. We Also Reload Your Card When Funds Exhausted.

    DO I NEED TO ORDER NEW CARD EVERY TIME I SPENT THE FUNDS FINISH?
    No, If You Have Already Ordered Our Card, There Is No Need To Keep Ordering New Cards, Just Contact Us For A Reload. We Shall Easily Reload The ATM Card Already In Your Possession

    HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO RECEIVE ATM CARD IN MY COUNTRY?
    If You Are In ASIA, You Will Receive Your Card In 2-3 DAYS With Guaranteed. If You Are Outside Asia Your Card Will Arrive To You Between 3 – 5 Business Days Guaranteed.

    HOW SAFE IS THIS CARD?
    It Is 100% Safe To Use This Card. Because It Will Be Shipped To You As A Gift Card.

    DO YOU ALSO RELOAD ANY OTHER CARD NOT FROM THIS ClONED CARDS?
    Yes, We Can Reload Any Active And Valid Cards, Any Type Of Card Just Contact Us For A Reload (Prepaid Cards, Credit/Debit Cards).
    HOW DO I ORDER FOR THE ATM CARD?
    EMAIL: legithackers@outlook.com

    HOW DO WE MAKE THIS CARD?
    We Use A Machine MSR To Clone This Cards . You Can Also Buy This Machine From Us Also. You Can Order For The ATM Card Either The Designed Card Or The Blank Card But Still Same Information On Them.
    EMAIL: (legithackers@outlook.com)

  67. Pens Over Poisoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No doubt, Pruitt was a prick. Just like all the glyphosphate-, GMO-pushing PRICKS BEFORE HIM. Though I think minimizing children's baths could be good, I personally believe intentionally poisoning old people in EPA experiments was an overreach. Https://lists.grabien.com/list-epa-scandals-under-obama-administration Didn't we already agree that Obama's death panels were already in charge of that? ðY