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Tesla Model 3 Teardown Reveals a 'Symphony of Engineering,' 30 Percent Profit Margin (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Munro & Associates, a small Detroit-area firm that disassembles new cars and analyzes them down to the nuts and bolts, came out in April with damning findings that the Model 3 was poorly built and -- even worse for Tesla's long-term outlook -- costly to build. On that second point, at least, founder Sandy Munro has reversed course. Upon further analysis, his firm has found that the sedan can be profitable. It may even have the potential to make a 30 percent margin, which would be unmatched by any other other battery-powered vehicle. Munro said the systems that impressed him most were the tight integration of circuit board components, which he calls "a symphony of engineering," and the efficiency of the battery developed by Tesla and Panasonic Corp. Munro also pointed to a comprehensive side-by-side comparison of the parts and materials used by the Model 3, General Motors Co.'s Chevrolet Bolt, and BMW AG's i3, in which the Model 3 comes out favorably. The report echoes a teardown published in June by German magazine WirtschaftsWoche, which found that the Model 3 costs about $28,000 to build -- $18,000 for materials and $10,000 for production.
...but it's quite possible Munro just didn't want to be baselessly accused of pedophilia for the crime of criticizing his holy Muskness.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
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So it's either a barely profitable vehicle or an extremely profitable vehicle, unmatched in it's class. It's also either poorly built or better built then any of it's competitors? So how much do these morons an Munro & Associates make? Because I can give you those types of analyses for free any day of the week.
Sounds like he was paid off.
Then why isn't Tesla profitable?
And remember people, there's a difference between gross margins on each car and operating margins for the company.
If you don't know the difference and their context, then you have no business commenting on Tesla's financial health.
This looks like a "Shorting Tesla didn't work, so I'm going to try ..."
I took delivery of my Model 3 last month. I am really pleased with the fit and finish and overall quality. It is really impressive that they are able to build it for only $28,000.
Most things that human beings design happen in spite of the laws of physics attempting to make it not happen. Almost all electronic and mechanical systems operate on the hairy edge of failure.
Then why isn't Tesla profitable?
Well, roughly, they have spent the last two years building up manufacturing capability, and only the last month has their manufacturing been putting out a reasonable number of cars, so the upfront costs are spent, but the income stream produced by the investment has only started. The key question is to look at Tesla's balance sheet in six months.
In more nerd terms, the "income" part of "income-outgo = profit" is a time integral, while a large portion of the outgo is fixed, so the profitability rises with time.
Will Tesla be profitable? Stay tuned.
Nah, don't need to be so polar. My shower head and it's assembly looks like it's typical summer pop song. Not symphony of engineering but not cacophony either.
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Trolling bots all over the web and it is hard to tell anymore which is satire, parody, comedy and what is serious. People have gone off the rails more than Germany in the 1930s... if only we could put a rank on irrationality; not that it would help any as the lemmings will continue running for the cliff regardless (apt metaphor if you think about the irony.)
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Mueller fucked up again.
By charging the 12 Russian agents in US criminal court, he afforded Russia all the protections of the US Constitution - including the right to the presumption of innocence until proved guilty.
Well, roughly, they have spent the last two years building up manufacturing capability, and only the last month has their manufacturing been putting out a reasonable number of cars, so the upfront costs are spent, but the income stream produced by the investment has only started..
I have to disagree with that. Musk has been blowing tens of billions on manufacturing and other things (purchase of SolarCity) and they have been making and selling cars all that time. Tesla sales (Model S) peak at about 80,000 a year - not bad, but not enough to make the company viable. The other cars are not doing as well.
And if we look at the Model 3 reservations, they are declining. They are about 373,000 right now - down from 400,000 (he did deliver that many cars.). I would expect that number to be in the millions if the Model 3 was going to be this blockbuster that will save Tesla.
Coupled with the billions in cash continually burnt on operations (NOTHING to do with capital expenditures), I see a bleak future for Tesla.
PS: I'm sure this post will be mod'ed to oblivion because it looks like the fanboys are out in force and I won't be able to post - sorry, I don't register to sites like these. My data has been pimped out too much as it is.
Let me guess: Rei posted this story. I give him credit: he stands by his hero Musk even though the guy turned out to be a major punk bully
The big three could learn from lessons from Musk. Having production problems with your line? Just move workers from other plants to the affected plant, set up some tents and do a big chunk of the automated work by hand.
The big three are living in the past, where you work out production problems before going into production. This tent based production methodology is the future!
Seems like a reliable firm to turn to for engineering advice.
Something is wrong with Musk if he thinks he can say stuff like that.
Unless he meant 'pedo, as in a torpedo: Musk's ill-fitting hard cylinder for thai boys.
tell the sales guy to take 15-20% off or I will walk away.
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Tesla were designed and built more like a software development project, then a traditional automobile project, initially, later on they started to bring in _some_ of the traditional methods.
However being that we have an All Electric Car being built using a different project method, scares the Traditional Automotive industry and their biases would probably have them hunting down problems in the design vs good points.
Detroit was the Silicon Valley 2 generations ago, having its thunder taken away from them in terms of economy then in business practice will make them feel nervous.
Tesla is currently making all electric cars that people actually wan't vs. the Tiny road legal golf carts like the Leaf that people would only want it because it is electric and affordable. The Chevy Bolt is a good contender too. But it still lacks some coolness.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
It's not okay, he's done this repeatedly as CEO of Tesla too. His mouth is a liability.
“Water level was actually very low & still (not flowing) — you could literally have swum to Cave 5 with no gear [1], which is obv how the kids got in [2]. If not true, then I challenge this dude to show final rescue video [3]. Huge credit to pump & generator team. Unsung heroes here[4],”
[1] a Seal diver died from lack of oxygen, he gave the kids too much of his tank when he was in the end cave. Clearly not swimable then. The kids were running out of oxygen so clearly air tight, and they brought them out 4 at a time during the day, with Seals restocking the oxygen tanks along the way at night. His claim is garbage, it belittles the risks involved.
[2]The kids climbed in before the floods and went deep into the cave as the water rose. They did not swim in.
[3] They made a rescue, not a video for PR purposes. His demand for a video shows his priorities not theirs.
[4] Same cave teams did the rescue as laid the pipes and power lines.
“You know what, don’t bother showing the video, We will make one of the mini-sub/pod going all the way to Cave 5 no problemo. Sorry pedo guy, you really did ask for it.”
Fuck off Musk. They didn't use your tube, you got pissy in your disappointment, one of the cavers got angry with you for the PR stunt and pissyness part and you escallated into calling him a pedo because he's in Thailand. Which is a slur on Thailand and libel against him.
If you want to help, help, don't do a PR circus when they're trying to do a rescue.
One more thing, when autopilot kills people, its not their fault they didn't turn off the autopilot to rescue the car from its bad driving. It's your bugs to blame. Don't attack customers just because they're dead and can't answer back. When the Luxembourg safety regulator complaims the brakes are awful, its because they're awful. It's not a conspiracy against your company, they just want you to fix the damn brakes. Grow up.
(F)elon Musk is surrounded by PEDOS. Only he knows where the PEDOS are lurking! 20% of all Tesla profits will go to fighting PEDOS only (F)elon can see!
Your shower head is not the only thing that goes into providing you with the ability to you take a hot shower.
I do it to every one of you coal-burning electric whores. Fuck you and fuck your planetkilling ego. Youre shit and everyone knows it.
1) This car is shit, I would never buy one and wouldn't even get one for my mother in law.
2) Secretly buy Tesla stock as wholesale prices
3) WOW - we were wrong, this car is a 'Symphony of Engineering', beautiful, amazing, etc!!! [:love eyes:]
4) Profit.
The big 3 are mired in their old ways. Vertical supply chain integration, just in time parts delivery, maintaining standards across plants and commonizing build platforms for flexibility - all of that is nonsense.
The wave of the future is building giant factories in the middle of the desert to save money on energy. Then you ship all your parts to your factory in the middle of nowhere via trucks, which also saves energy.
Up to 30% profit margin on the most expensive model probably means a loss on the base model. The version tested is pretty important to know. I'd also note that the material costs are probably pretty close, however it's much harder to estimate accurate assembly costs, they could be way off.
The rear vision mirror comparison seems suspect. The Chevy Bolt has a built in display that shows a camera view of the rear (so there's no backseat passengers in the way and to give a wider view), but allows the camera to be bypassed to act like a normal mirror. The Tesla 3 doesn't have this feature, it's just a standard auto-dimming mirror with a little camera watching the passengers for some reason. Using this as an example of cost comparison between the Bolt and 3 is a very apples to oranges comparison, and makes me question whether the teardown received funding.
If you drill through to the breakdown video, he shows the PCB called a "symphony of engineering"
It's a very ordinary design and would have been considered dense 25 years ago. Today, those components are medium-sized or even large. The PCB layout is designed to basic industry standards and no more. However, needlessly-small components reduce manufacturing yield and reliability. Unusual PCB designs increase costs and shrink your supplier base.
The design is simply competent so I can't imagine what he's used to seeing that makes this one worth gushing over.
Sandy Munro is a hacker in the truest sense of the word. Unfortunately I can imagine a day in the not too distant future when his actions might be made illegal under some sort of intellectual property law run a muck.
There's a difference between things that work, and things that work while being an elegant and well-executed design. And you know it.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
He probably donates big to both parties, because he's rich AF and wants his own shills in Congress to combat his competitors' shills in Congress.
That's how business is done these days.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I disagree. One of the interesting things about Tesla is the tendency to incrementally improve the cars as they're produced, vs. cranking out large numbers of them with flawed parts because they aren't ready to officially change the design on some scheduled calendar date.
When they can make a change via software, they do it, in a continuous rollout of firmware updates. Win-win for everybody, really.
When it involves actual part revisions? It ensures the least number of Teslas were sold to customers with the lesser-quality part in them, and the parts that fail in warranty will get swapped with the latest and greatest update. (Even out of warranty, it's at least a "case by case" thing that you stand a chance of getting the part replaced free as a "good will" gesture. Tesla tries to be a little bit like Apple used to be, in that sense. They don't want to commit to anything on paper that they don't have to .... but if you're friendly and reasonable with the service center folks, they have some leeway to give you a break when you have issues, too.)
Isn't free-market capitalism amazing?!
'Murica!
They really were fighting for THEIR right... to enslave others! All the BS about state rights, personal rights, etc-- was completely BS and exists more today than it did back then; they knew full well it was totally about their right to own slaves. They may not have had any slaves but someday when they are rich... they wanted to be able to own slaves. In addition, the culture created to justify the whole thing motivated a great many people and entrenched attitudes and beliefs which continue to this day--- because as Mark Twain said, "Laws are but sand, culture is rock."
The fight over "way of life" and "traditional values" also never ends as popular culture shifts over time even without people working to nudge it.
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The PCB is not state-of-the-art, because that would be unnecessarily expensive. And since the one shown most in the video is a power board (as evidenced by the size of the connectors), there's a limit to desirable density; physically larger means easier to cool.
It's better integrated and more compact compared to other cars, which are usually designed by mechanical engineers first and the electronics is added piecemeal wherever there's room.
I quite like the battery pack design. Rather than the usual Medusa's hairdo of balancing wires connecting all those cells, they use PCBs several feet long to do the wiring. Significant development NRE, but saves a lot in assembly!
Don't be surprised if Unsworth _is_ a pedophile, and that Elon might just have proof.
Cool, we'll post pics of your tiny little member on Facebook. My Tesla has more cameras looking in all directions (to feed the AI autopilot) than Carter's has little liver pills.
Next, we'll ID you using l facial recognition. I'm sure we can track you down using either 'face' from whatever shrunken and misshapen head you wish to present. I'm sure you've 'presented' your best face on interesting websites repeatedly.
And if you wish to become even more uncivilized it won't end well for you.
You see, we aren't all pacifist tree huggers. Some of us are prepared to hug trees aggressively.
A cacophony of failures in all the other things out there? You'll find a "symphony of engineering" everywhere you look around you.
Took a hot shower this morning? Guess what? It didn't happen by accident!
The level of engineering involved in my morning shower is positively anemic. The hot water heater isn't designed for maximum efficiency, it's just designed not to burn the house down and to be cheap to produce. The showerhead wasn't optimized with CFD for optimal flow; someone drew what they thought it should look like, and someone else had to make something that would more or less work and be affordable to produce. The water system was not designed for maximum flow, either; it was designed to be easy to assemble, and to basically do the job. The drain system was hardly designed at all.
My morning shower is more like mad libs than a symphony — as are most other tasks. Because most things are not engineered to be the best they can be — they are engineered for maximum profit. An up-and-coming company, however, will often put in more effort. They can't afford to simply cruise on their name. Tesla can do more of that than other companies, but if they stop delivering superior automobiles then the market will react rapidly enough.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What is the deal with the weird high asking costs and pretend crazy high asking costs? It reads like a parody or something.
http://leandesign.com/pdf/Tesl...