Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft's Next-Gen Xbox Will Focus On 'XCloud' Game Streaming (theverge.com)
One big area that Microsoft is focusing on with its next-generation Xbox is game streaming. According to a report from Thurrott.com, Microsoft is working on two new Xbox consoles. The "Xbox Two" will be a console similar to that of the Xbox One and Xbox 360, with updated hardware and specs. The other Xbox console in development will be limited to streaming games. The Verge reports: The streaming-only console will reportedly include a low amount of local compute for handling tasks like controller input, image processing, and collision detection. These tasks are essential to reducing latency in game streaming, and Microsoft is said to be planning to slice up processing between the game running locally and in the cloud in order to reduce input lag and other image processing delays. Microsoft is currently developing its next-generation Xbox console under the Scarlett codename. The software giant recently revealed it's also working on a game streaming service for Xbox that will work across any device. This is a key part of Microsoft's future plans with Xbox, and part of the company's vision for developing its "Netflix for video games" service, Xbox Game Pass.
Sources familiar with Microsoft's plans tell The Verge that Microsoft is currently "all hands" on creating datacenters capable of powering the company's game streaming service. Referred to as codename "XCloud" internally, Microsoft has been experimenting with combining four lots of custom Xbox consoles into a single server blade for its datacenters. These servers will launch initially with developers in mind to build and develop games in the cloud instead of local debug machines, and then to stream games to consumers.
Sources familiar with Microsoft's plans tell The Verge that Microsoft is currently "all hands" on creating datacenters capable of powering the company's game streaming service. Referred to as codename "XCloud" internally, Microsoft has been experimenting with combining four lots of custom Xbox consoles into a single server blade for its datacenters. These servers will launch initially with developers in mind to build and develop games in the cloud instead of local debug machines, and then to stream games to consumers.
"low amount of local compute for handling tasks like controller input, image processing, and collision detection"
I'm honestly more confused than anything
Followed by a $15 / mo subscription.
People are being brought up into this new norm.
This could make senses for multiplayer games that rely heavily on always online anyways, both creating a fair playing field graphics wise and hopefully making them impossible to hack. I would be concerned about ping causing some issues in how the game feels to the player however.
"low amount of local compute for handling tasks like controller input, image processing, and collision detection"
You are probably wondering why they are doing collision detection on the box when they are streaming the game from the server...
The answer of course is that the are doing the *game* collision detection on server and just streaming the video/audio; the local box collision detection is merely to detect when you kick the unit out of frustration and parks the cache hard drive briefly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They tried to "stream" a game, not only some sequences but having the game essentially run on their servers with the players' computers handling more or less just input and graphics rendering. What I'm talking about is the original Final Fantasy XIV (not the 2013 re-release but the original one in 2010). To say it was unplayable would be more praise than the result deserved. And we're talking about a fairly simple MMO here where delays are not quite so noticeable as in other games that depend highly on precisely timed input, where a key aspect of the game is that you feel in control.
But it seems some kids have to touch the stove themselves to believe it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Subscriptions, a steady stream of it.
[($)]
Have these idiots not seen the steaming pile of laggy shit that is PSNow? It will work properly in New York and that's about it
Netflix for video games even with download installed to an local fat client. Download caps with hurt it.
With this caps are worse and people with slow networks are just cut off. Even people with unlimited FAP overnights can work with an download to an local fat client system.
Also with no network neutrality isp can really slow things down and it's not just that your downloads take longer or when you stream that movie you have to wait a bit for the buffer. No it's lower the game down maybe 720p or lower and deal with poor lag / pings.
Any time cloud gaming systems are announced they need to come up with a way of hiding network lag, so they choose a driving game and never an FPS.
Driving games have a lot of inertia; they don't have twitch controls, so they're the perfect candidate.
Let's see what XCloud is demonstrated with!
Seems like we've been here before. Possibly more than once. It's never really flown well in the past, but maybe this time will be different?
It does makes a lot of sense, for manufacturers and developers. If you take away all the hardware and turn the 'console' into basically a glorified VNC viewer... what's not to love about this?
Modding your console system becomes moot. Piracy ends instantly. Hell, it's the last console you'll buy, since when the games need more processing power, they just move your game onto a better data center system.
I'm surprised this hasn't happened much sooner. Let's just pray it sticks to games and console systems, and doesn't migrate into the general computing arena, cuz then they have us, by the balls. Forever. Alas, it already is honestly, one needs only point to Microsoft Office 365.
Sarcasm aside.. this actually does make a hell of a lot of sense, from every angle. It will eventually lead to console systems just going away entirely and you 'subscribe' to your game console delivery service, and you 'play' with whatever device you happen to have.. laptop, desktop PC, smart TV, tablet, phone, endless possibilities for this technology.
Of course, any network outage, burp or bump, and you are going to feel it, every time, every tiny hiccup gunna translate into sluggish response from the game, or complete momentary desync from your inputs to it's outputs. I imagine these are issues that those peddling the Thin Clients of the future will try to keep buried.
Also, as a side note, this will in the long run, not be cheap. Initially, to hook people, they'll practically give these things away. But as the companies realize the maintenance and power costs for running all that back end for millions of people playing games... yeah, they're gunna need to charge a pretty hefty penny to make any kind of profit. Maybe they should abandon Thin Client.. as I said, we've tried it before and ... see any thin clients near you? That's what I thought.
but hell no.
Networks available to the consumer aren't quite where they need to be in terms of speed, availability and reliability ( heavy emphasis on the latter )
to think streaming any game beyond a simple mobile style ( read that small size ) app is even an option.
Net neutrality just got torpedoed. Guess who is going to have to pay the big bucks to ensure those game streams don't get put into the low priority que ? :|
Some places have zero broadband options at all. Going to just tell those folks too fucking bad ?
Data caps are going to be an issue for many.
I have a mediocre connection ( 90/6 ) that works most of the time, but not all of the time. Packet loss is a frustrating occurrence when it's upstream somewhere.
Noting the previous, my only other option is Verizon DSL and that is absolutely not happening. ( You think Xfinity is bad . . . hahahaha )
Ever play a game where the next area / stage has to load first ? Imagine waiting for it to come via network download.
I will pass on every aspect of this lol
I prefer a system I can play offline if necessary when Xfinity decides to go all stupid on me.
Microsoft Office 365 has full fat client + web mail. Not the same as gameing.
Sorry, but our internet is REALLY bad here. Will work well in China and any other country that has actual competition and infrastructure. But here we have monopolies and still consider DSL an option.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
your going to need another CAL for that, just don't get audited... RDP sucks so I am sure this will be worse. VMware PCoIP and Blast would work but MS will not license that. HP RGS would work too, but MS will not license that either. The queen says "Let them eat cake" and we accept this as good.
Your Average Joe
If most of the back end of this system is going to be loaded in the cloud... then why the fuck even bother having a console at all??
For the same reason Valve has the Steam Link extender.
Just turn X-box live into a new Steam and be done with it.
I imagine on average (median), the display connected to an Xbox One is much larger in inches or centimeters than the display connected to a PC running Steam. (Unfortunately, Steam Hardware & Software Survey data do not include the physical size of the primary monitor, only its pixel count.) People choose Xbox for the living-room-first experience, or because they don't own and/or don't want the upkeep burden of a gaming PC.
So in other words if you've got a shitty internet connection, you'll have a shitty console experience. Buy the hardware, lease the game, until they decide to stop supporting it AND pay for a net connection to support it all. Sounds like a cash cow for M$, and a cornholing for consumers. YEAH TEAM !!!
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I can play Overwatch at a Platinum level on my Xbox One over streaming. The latency is surprisingly palatable at 9-10ms. And latency is dropping and dropping. Cable used to be around 60ms a couple years ago, now it's 6-10ms.
Many TVs have 10+ms of latency just in the video processor but that's getting better every year too. There's also Warp rendering where the GPU synthesizes a frame from a previous frame. It's being used for lowering latency of VR but it's something that could easily be baked into a low cost DSP chip on a thin Xbox Cloud device. The cloud renders a frame. If everything continues as expected and the latency is unnoticeable then it'll just wait. If the input changes or game state changes the local machine can synthesize a new frame from the last frame. \
XCloud won't be out for at least 2 years. We'll be living in a whole new world by then.
When we moved over here from the US I was a little shocked at the state of the ISPs. We're stuck with au but have friends with similar problems through other providers:
- Connections just randomly drop
- Oversold back-hauls
- 10 year DSL router with no firmware updates and no option to use a third-party modem/router
- Using WiFi on the router is an up-charge (and it's only 802.11g)
- DNS server will frequently return SERVFAIL (thankfully they don't block third-party servers)
* Some major ISPs use enterprise NAT by default (they cast it as a security feature) so you end up getting double-natted unless you call them and tell them to turn it off for you.
Yes, you can get FTTH in major metro regions but only in newer buildings and apparently getting your rated bandwidth is exceedingly rare (see oversold back-hauls). I miss my Verizon FiOS.
I mean, they keep trying to make it sound like they're doing you a favor.
They have had their eye on streaming games for the last 20 years. A way to hold complete control, to decide when you stop playing it, and how you play it. It made them sick to their wallets that you could still play the first version of the game that you loved and still play video games, saying to hell with the new Game release 3 or Game release 4. You weren't buying it because the original was better, and you still play it.
Well enough of that. We'll "depreciate" the copy you paid for, and say we longer offer it, so you can no longer play it. Now if you want to play anything close to it, you're forced to buy our newest title. We can also turn that previous title to shit with an update patch to make it like our newer product, saying it's a free content update etc, but it will not only wreck what you loved about the original, it won't be as good as our next release, so you'll be encouraged to buy it, for more 'features'
Oh yeah, remember how pissed everyone was when they wouldn't let you share games with a friend? Pass him your disk? They were super mad to that they didn't get to do it.
Now they're going to 'stream it' so there is no disk to share, it's all account based. Oh no they didn't say they're getting rid of sharing, noooo, just UNFORTUNATELY...the technology we're using doesn't support it, you know, for your benefit.
All these corporate companies have constantly, non stop looked for a way to be profitable but remove all control of products from your hands. They just want the money but it still all be theirs..
That's why hardware gets locked down, they make it difficult to repair except by giving them more money and they use firmware to make sure you only run what they want you to run, even completely legal software.
This is just the next step, continuation on this path. I've gamed a lot of my life, but many companies, game developers, and console makers have been pushed out of my wallet due to their bullshit, it's not worth it. Don't worry, I'll speak with my money too, hopefully everyone else will.
It's not too bad, unless someone else tries to use the network for any purpose at all.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Much of the rest if not all of the rest of the first world don't have data caps. I've not been with an ISP which hasn't been unlimited data for almost two decades here in the UK.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Live in rural East Yorkshire, have 72mbit.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
"If the future pans out the way Spencer sees it. In this scenario, there’s never really an Xbox Two. There’s just an Xbox One being upgraded over time like a PC, but with games developed on the Universal Windows Platform system, they would stay backward compatible despite new hardware. The software platform is separated from the hardware, allowing consoles to be upgraded without needing to move to an entire “next” generation of hardware."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/i...
So Xbox One X is a $500 flop after less than two years, and can't play the new games too?
Twinstiq, game news
This is message I'm getting: "Hey, we know we screwed with the Xbox One in trying to destroy the used game market. Here's this new idea that doesn't have the exact same result. It will be rad, we swear!"
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
There's data caps and then there's "network traffic optimization" or whatever the ISPS want to call it. Basically you're using some bandwidth or a certain type of bandwidth. The ISPs totally won't throttle that and offer you a package to make things more "smooth".
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
The moderators get it. Too bad you don't. :-)
P.S. if it helps to give you a clue, I would have posted the same response to Sony or Nintendo building the same box. I have nothing against any of them, gaming-wise.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley