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'No, Amazon Cannot Replace Libraries' (vice.com)
Over the weekend, Forbes published an article titled "Amazon Should Replace Local Libraries to Save Taxpayers Money," in which the author Panos Mourdoukoutas argued that libraries are no longer important to the community as the result of alternative "third places" like Starbucks, and "no shortage of places to hold community events," as well as streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime and the rise of e-books that have "turned physical books into collector's items, effectively eliminating the need for library borrowing services." The article did not bode well with many, including several librarians. Forbes has since taken down the article. From a report: Hundreds of Twitter users took to the platform to share both their anger with the piece and their love for libraries. People seemed to especially take issue with the author picking Amazon --notorious for its horrible treatment of employees, and accusations of ruining the cities it opens warehouses in -- as a potential replacement. Obviously, as the outrage from these users demonstrates, libraries are beloved and important in communities.
Mourdoukoutas's argument that libraries are becoming less useful is patently false, in a way that's fairly obvious. But the notion that libraries aren't worth their value to taxpayers -- one that fails to take into account the financial returns of a library and expenses of buying these items on one's own -- fails to address the vast importance a library has on its community as a physical space open to anyone in the public. Most of the utilities of libraries are quite obvious, like how they're essential to lowering the barrier of entry on activities that may be cost prohibitive. But many of us aren't aware of the impact our libraries have on our own communities, nor the programs they offer.
Mourdoukoutas's argument that libraries are becoming less useful is patently false, in a way that's fairly obvious. But the notion that libraries aren't worth their value to taxpayers -- one that fails to take into account the financial returns of a library and expenses of buying these items on one's own -- fails to address the vast importance a library has on its community as a physical space open to anyone in the public. Most of the utilities of libraries are quite obvious, like how they're essential to lowering the barrier of entry on activities that may be cost prohibitive. But many of us aren't aware of the impact our libraries have on our own communities, nor the programs they offer.
All the content is available on the Internet, but that means you have to sift through all the content on the internet. The benefit of libraries is that its curated. You can ask a librarian questions that Amazon's search service can't comprehend. It's the same reason professional conferences are still relevant. You can find everything presented in a conference on the internet, but until it's been presented to you, you don't have a clue what's worth searching for.
Since anyone can now poop there and the WiFi is free, Starbucks are now effectively a library replacement.
Only one more step remains, Starbucks needs to implement a policy where customers sitting in the shop are required to hand over laptops to homeless to watch at least five minutes of porn when asked.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If libraries are being used by a lot of people, then they are providing value. If there are little or no people using them, then they are providing little value.
If certain books haven't been checked out in 20 years, maybe its best to have an on-line version available and kiosks instead of shelves.
author Panos Mourdoukoutas argued that libraries are no longer important to the community
kalos malakas eisai kai su.
Any private enterprise can do that. Only without tax money. And that means less sinecures for the lazy paper pusher. And THAT is the problem. The rest is just populist propaganda.
Wow, next thing you're going to tell me is politicians never lie!
The author claims outrage without much in the way of real citation except for some peoples feelings and no objective evidence, and makes claims about Amazon which is based on hearsay (you can always find someone who hates their job).
But anyway - sure lets keep public libraries with late fees, lost books, damaged property, masturbating homeless, officious and bureaucratic librarians, and run down facilities. Versus a way to check out books electronically which you can read anywhere anytime and get quickly from home or work or school. I'd rather give people ereaders or tablets than pay for moldy dead tree books.
If AMZN wanted to open 15,000 brick-and-mortar book shops in underserved neighborhoods and small towns... they would be doing so. They aren't, and aren't about to start doing that. Even if some moron writes a think-piece about how nice it would be for them to to that.
The original article from Mourdoukoutas suggesting a corporate book store with wifi, coffee shop, a community bulletin board, bathrooms and chairs for the homeless to sit and read magazines. Hmm... toss in a stupid-hot goth checkout clerk and you've just reinvented my college-era Borders from 2001. Good times. Good times. They kinda went bankrupt with that model, though...
The data on library use is that they continue to fall and a large part of that is that over time the price of books has been falling in real terms. In the 1930s a novel cost around the same as half a day of an average man's earnings. Today it's less than half an hour. I can pay £3 for a classic detective novel on Kindle. Which I can buy at any time of day and night. Or go and take a trip to the library and spend as much as that on parking.
I live in Boston, so I will use that as a reference
https://budget.boston.gov/capital-projects/boston-public-library/
https://boston.curbed.com/boston-development/2017/10/23/16516694/dudley-library-branch-boston-renovation
My local library in Boston is getting upgraded for a grand total of about 20 million. The library has potential to be of use but the reality is no one uses it. It is an obscene waste of money to spend 20 million to maintain a space most commonly used by a half dozen elderly men to play checkers.
This is all that needed to be said: Writer Kashana Cauley responded to Mourdoukoutas in a tweet with 14,000 likes at time of writing, (Pretending to be Mourdoukoutas) “Let me clarify something. I don’t want poor and working class people to read books.”
Libraries are important people!
government sanctioned, corporate services is fascist.
The phrase 'The article did not bode well' *should* mean something like 'The article posed an existential threat' for something (like libraries). Or 'The article portended doom' or 'The article foretold disaster'
I think the writer wanted to say 'The article did not sit well'
Sorry about the word-nazism, but this stuff really grates on me.
I know it's trendy for half the country to force their views on the other half but this is a local decision. If the local population wants to close the libraries that's their choice since they are the ones paying for them.
I'm sure there must be at least one brilliant one, or were they all slain by the Spartans?
Until Amazon opens its doors as a defacto homeless shelter, then it cannot replace libraries. That is, after all, their primary function in 2018 America. Most of the local libraries here are overrun with homeless, and all the problems they present to people who are otherwise trying to study in peace.
The other important factor with libraries is that books don't suddenly disappear en-masse like they can with a virtual/centrally-controlled commercial entity... People should remember the particularly ironic case of Amazon removing copies of 1984 from everyone's Kindle, as reported in the New York Times and The Guardian.
If it's so obvious then please explain how, because I can't really think of many ways other than not having to buy books.
disclaimer: I haven't been in a public library in 20 years.
Only one I use is the one at the university, and even that is showing its age in the outdated books they carry.
It's not fair to say the content is available on the internnet.
Much of the content my library offers is in the form of access to very expensive online data services that are offered for free to library patrons. There's well over 100 services I get free at my library. I have free access to Lynda.com which would otherwise cost around $30/month. The city's largest newspaper has an online archive of every page they printed going back to the mid 19'th century. They charge $100/year for access. Or free at the library. And that's only 2 of the services.
I can borrow just about any new release DVD for free within a month of release date.
My library offers access to high end 3D printers at a cost of 3 cents/gram. Just order online by uploading your stl files, and pick up at the branch in a few days. And considering I don't have to pay for spoiled prints or babysit a wonky $500 printer, their price is actually fantastic. I haven't used them yet, but they also have a CNC milling machine and vinyl cutting machine that can be used on the same basis.
They also have a video studio greenroom I can use for free and a music recording studio I can I use for free. I can borrow a gopro camera for free too.
Oh yeah, I think my library also gives me access to books and magazines for free. I guess, maybe, amazon could help with that one. Though I do take issue with the article saying amazon ebooks can replace real books. I read around 100 books a year, I haven't read an ebook in over 10 years, I didn't like the experience then and I don't think I'd like it now.
And especially with Amazon. I remember shortly after Kindle came out, they remotely deleted all the George Orwell books people had bought for their kindles when the publisher changed their mind about licensing the books. If I buy a print book, Amazon can't (legally, yet) break into my home and take back the book when they change their mind about selling it. For that reason alone, I will *never* use amazon for ebooks.
Libraries are free. Unlike e-books, their books don't need batteries to work. Even if you have a computer, they're also a lot cheaper and friendlier than KinkoFedex for copying and color printing.
And I have two on my walk home from work. Yay for living in a real city! WOOT!
I will not speak of Amazon's data policies but the ALA to a man, woman, or other will SLAM their fist down upon the drive wipe button if someone comes in thinking their warrant means something. This isn't just a threat, many did as soon as "The Patriot Act" was even being considered.
http://www.ala.org/aboutala/go...
Wow. You have an awesome library. I too can get local newspapers, but I definitely can't 3D print at my library. I can also get VHS or DVDs as soon as 15 years after their release. That being said, I'm fully in favor of the library. When I want to find a new author to read, I like to try before I buy. I'll typically borrow the first book from a new author from the library, then buy the rest.
Seems like every community has a group of small government folks that are trying to reduce the size of government. My community has a group that has been trying to shut down the libraries for decades. The latest tactic is to reduce the number of full-time librarains and increase the number of volunteers. Most volunteers are not trained librarians or student librarians.
The article says it: ... um... but none of us go there
1. Millenials don't know about their public libraries
2. None of us go to public libraries
3. They could be great places to go
4. Amazon sucks because they don't treat their workers well (so yeah, ok, maybe that's true and maybe Amazon is not the right answer, but libraries are obsolete!!!)
Basically this article writer knows libraries are obsolete and stupid and have no place in today's day and age but she has a grudge against Amazon and wants all of today's youths to "learn about libraries" and "start going to libraries" and other absurd 1940s notions.
I'll stick to Amazon and Starbucks and WiFi and comfortable furniture vs libraries. Had one in my high school once. Hated it.
M
Your librarians must be friendlier than mine. Mine never answered any questions!
We're seeing that antipattern already for what? 70 years?
Those neolibs slowly shifting what seems socially acceptable, just to leave part of the population with no access whatsoever to anything in society. All that to spare the rich some (GASP!) taxes.
In (ahhh) good ol' times, rich people in the U.S. contributed more to the common good than these days. Much more.
All the content is available on the Internet,
What in the hell does this mean? Do you know that libraries contain *books* that anybody can read and check out for free? The only books available on the Internet are a handful of 100+ year old out-of-copyright books.
I don't respond to AC's.
So, then, money is all that matters in any societal-level discussion? That's really sad if that's what you think.
I don't respond to AC's.
Among the many, many, many problems with this horrible idea, there is the fact that private companies (such as Amazon and Starbucks) are not obliged to uphold the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. (Whenever unpopular speech is suppressed, for example on a platform like Facebook, the pro-suppression argument always leads off with "It's their platform and they have a right to kick you off it if they don't like your speech").
I live in a larger mid-western city in America. I have maintained my library card for years, for one simple reason. I can access their database online, request that they transport a DVD of my choosing to my local branch, and notify me when it's available. I retrieve the DVD, bring it home, and after a short episode of Handbrake activity, I have a digital copy of the motion picture / television show, which I can maintain on my own storage unit. The DVD is free to borrow, and my library has a HUGE inventory of them. They may not be the most pristine copies, and yes, there's a time investment, but I'm also not risking my ISP sending me silly torrent warnings. It's a great source for electronic media of all kinds, and as long as that lasts, I'll keep using it. Books, not so much, as I've lately been quite happy with my e-reader, but from what I understand I can borrow e-books as well. Just haven't explored that option yet.
My problem with this, with ANY internet service replacing paper books, is 1984
When a book (or as has happened the Declaration of Independence) is prohibited, it could just disappear. Worse, particular words could be dropped or added (say, the word "Not") seamlessly
Having real books removed or modified is much harder
Content owners have a natural incentive to see libraries as a way that people can steal their stuff for free. That isn't an accurate description, of course, but that is how content owners see it. Borrowing IS stealing.
So, people in this group, and their sympathizers, level assaults against libraries in which they come up with bullshit reasons to try and convince everyone to get rid of them.
As far as I can tell, that's all this is.
Simply cough up enough money, and in 2 days there it is -- books and shelves and everything!!
(Some sorting and assembly required, building not included.)
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
I hope someone shoots that asshole.
I think the author of the article is one of those out of touch with anybody in the bottom 50% of income.
e.g. "If somebody is on the commercial do not fly list, they could always charter a plane". Ignoring that most people can't afford to charter a plane.
Libraries provide a necessary role that has gone way beyond simply checking books out.
"No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
Starbucks replacing libraries? Let's have private security firms replace the police. Oh, we should privatize fire fighting too! I don't know why people still read that site. They publish complete garbage most of the time. That is when they're not trying to shove 500 ads down your throat while shutting down the site from ad blockers. I think they stopped that last bit though despite their vocal claims it didn't affect their traffic.
The benefit of libraries is that its curated. You can ask a librarian questions that Amazon's search service can't comprehend.
. . . and . . . when you ask librarians for something, they won't deluge you with ads for useless crap that you don't want anyway.
"So you are looking for something about Friedrich Nietzsche . . . would you also be interested in the works of Dr. Seuss . . . ?"
Fahrenheit Forbes-Five-One, indeed.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I often have difficulty getting a parking space at our local library - its very popular.
My experience is that people who have the misguided opinion that libraries are obsolete haven't used them.
Greed is the root of all evil.
All the content is available on the Internet, What in the hell does this mean? Do you know that libraries contain *books* that anybody can read and check out for free? The only books available on the Internet are a handful of 100+ year old out-of-copyright books.
Those aren’t the only books on the internet that are free. Those are the only books that are legally available for free in all jurisdictions. Some countries don’t care if you steal books or other IP from people who do not live and pay taxes in that country.
I believe you mean "freely available" as there are tons of more recent works available for purchase. Having to purchase them of course obviously puts them out of competition with libraries and into opposition to book stores. Even as a store front though the internet is still frequently a disappointment. I don't read nearly as much as I used to and I still find series that are only partially available as ebooks. Recently I was reading The Culture novels and found that books 4, 5, and 6 apparently aren't available digitally, but books 1, 2, 3, and 7 are... I really just don't get how that happens, there is no good reason to not sell digital copies of some books in a series.
BTW, we just sold the street leading up to your corporate HQ to Waymo.
Have gnu, will travel.
Libaries will vary. Often I find the quality of library varies with how much the community values them willing to spend on them. The library in my former town was basic and sparse and often empty. The library in my current town has modern faculties, computers, etc. They were almost the same size towns.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Superfaggot Ken Doll
I find it interesting that through many years almost no-one has used the "Ken Doll" insult. Perhaps too obvious showing a lack of intelligence or creativity?
But I've also wondered if that doesn't backfire as an insult, since Ken is the most handsome and wealthy of all the dolls. It actually ends up being rather a complement to claim that I am rich, good looking, and date hot blonde women with ultra-smooth skin who have had a lot of work done.
As for "superfaggot" whenever I see that I smile, for all I can think of is "SuperKendall is super-on-fire!!" being really into British spelling. Woo!
So thanks for all that, it's a real lift for the day. :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Uh... Spartans are also Greek.
#DeleteChrome
Wow! A clickbait journalist says something stupid. Film at 11!
These assholes get money based on clicks, and it's easier to get clicks by being an asshole than by engaging in real journalism. See also: That horrible "feminist" bitch Amanda Marcotte. There's a reason clickbait rags like Salon have her on staff.
My library has a 3D printer that's free to use. My kids love going there, finding a pattern on Thingiverse, and printing out something. (One day I might even try designing my own pattern.) We use the DVD rentals at our library also as well as audiobooks, events, and so much more. I know people love complaining about taxes, but I'd willingly double the amount of taxes that I pay for my local library. The more resources they have, the more awesome they are, and the more kids will be exposed to the awesome public libraries.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
vinyl cutting machine
At first I thought this meant something that could cut vinyl phonograph recordings. That would be awesome, and something that libraries used to offer long ago. I never saw one, that was before my time, but I've read about them. A quick search on the interwebs though tells me what was referred to was likely a device that makes cutouts into sheets of vinyl for stencils and such. Still useful, but not near as awesome.
I do agree that libraries are now far more than a place people go to read books. I found that the local libraries offer a wide selection of video and music recordings as well. They offer free internet (well, taxpayer funded internet, nothing is free). I didn't explore the child's section but as I walked by it looked like they had toys there to play with, and I assume people can check those out like a book. They offer artwork for checkout, a friend of mine and his wife like to take advantage of this so they can hang a different piece of art in their living room every month.
One time I was at the library I found a gaggle of screaming little kids being escorted into a small movie theater of sorts attached to the library. I found out that they were showing Frozen, the sing-along version, and gave out coloring books for the kids. I don't know if there was a fee for this but lots of neighborhood kids were there. This room was available to be checked out for meetings, and they held other events in the room as well.
So, a library is a place to get more than books, and a place for the community to gather for events that are fun and/or educational. That cannot be replaced with a website.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Libraries are more than just a place to get free books.
Libraries have a lot of activities for kids. Small-scale showmen do magic shows, puppet plays, play music, our library has a Minecraft club to discuss creation ideas, methods, mod programming, and a lot of other things.
Our library has a section where students of various ages meet with their tutors.
Some of our nearby libraries have a decent (somewhat expensive, better than the cheapest things) 3d printer, and my son is very interested in learning about that. I like the idea of him learning on that, to see how far such interest goes, before investing in purchasing a machine for home. (and figuring out where to put one and supplies at home vs how often would it be used)
Our library has book clubs and other activities for adults as well.
Can Amazon replace all of that? No. Can Starbucks? Uh, have you ever seen magic shows or plays at a Starbucks? I havent...
I go there to work sometimes (anywhere I have WiFi internet and cellphone signal...) as it's generally quiet, and nearby to activities my son is doing for a while.
Sorry, but I only see benefits to our libraries, and do nto want to see them taken away for the benefit of Amazon and other establishments tha tdo not adequately replace the libraries.
Our local library even has a small planetarium that does monthly shows/lectures, and this is in BFE middle of nowhere. I was shocked.
When I was a kid, my local librarians knew me by name. I would come into the library, take out a stack of books, come back a week later, return them, and take out another stack. Now that I'm a father, my boys love going to the library. Yes, there are still books there and they enjoy that, but there are also movies, music, audio books, museum passes, 3D printers, computers, and so much more.
I'll admit that I like Amazon. Their Prime service is very nice and I like being able to fit thousands of books on my Kindle. Still, they are no library replacement. Not even close. Replacing libraries with Amazon.com would be a travesty.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Is all the content available on the internet?
No. Not for the same price and without someone tracking what you read, how much you read and how long you sit on 1 pg. My library has a deal with Overdrive/Amazon to allow select books/music/media to be viewed using "approved devices." I don't have an approved device and neither do the under privileged and elderly on fixed incomes.
Subscriptions - My retirement income is based on access to stock investment data. I've been using ValueLine for 30 yrs. When I was working, VL updates were mailed for $1200/yr and my investment clue shared the costs. Our library has had a subscription for about 20 yrs, so we'd meet AT THE LIBRARY to go over new data for companies we were watching. Now they don't have the paper subscription and only offer it online. This effectively killed the reason for our club to physically meet anymore, which drastically changed the group dynamics. In some ways it is better. But in most ways, it is worse.
Ever noticed how useless the newspaper websites are for actually reading news? They are so full of Idiocracy-like ads as to be useless. All that I've seen have at least 5 trackers and don't work without them enabled. TV news sites are almost as bad. I won't visit any of the local newspaper or TV sites in my metro area.
Tracking - Librarians understand how important secrecy about what you read is to a free society. Nobody should have to give up their general privacy to have access to library information.
Online is an "also", not a "replacement." It might be a replacement if you can blow $100/month on stuff the library carries, but you miss out on the community factor in all libraries.
Librarians have something the internet doesn't: Librarians. Very useful for answering questions that you're not sure how to ask, especially if you are a school kid. They have provided valuable help to my daughter on multiple occasions. My favorite interaction was when checking out books, I asked, "Couldn't I check out all those CDs and DVDs over there, take them home, and make copies of them?" His response was, "Well you could, but if you do, please don't tell me about it!"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
My question:
Why should the local taxpayers pay for your books and 3D printed gewgaws?
Hundreds of Twitter users took to the platform to share both their anger with the piece and their love for libraries.
Hundreds! Hundreds, mind you!
(I love libraries; that just struck me as funny.)
Libraries are also free. This is of great importance for poorer people, including students. Of course, Forbes probably doesn't care about those people.
When you're trying to plunder the commons that's the way to go.
Yes, some regions are too poor to afford libraries. This is what federal grants are for. If you like science and technology you want a well educated population. A poorly educated population will, sooner or later, collapse and find themselves a dictator who promises to fix things. That never ends well for people who like science and technology. We tend to be considered dangerous when that happens.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
they want to pocket the tax money going to the libraries for themselves. They're not small government when it comes to the government contracts going to their business or the subsidies or the free roads or the developed land or anything else the government does that benefits them personally.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
That's the issue and the question is whether brick and mortar versions vary mostly towards a poor cost/benefit to the community. In this day and age libraries primary function needs to shift from housing permanent physical collections of books/media to other activities. Maybe the nostalgic need to maintain libraries as "libraries" is holding them back.
I'm also talking about Google or Duck Duck Go or whatever your favorite search engine is. Sometimes a librarian can come up with a better set of search terms than you can, or they may know the answer, but that's just because they are a different person. It's isn't necessarily because they are a librarian.
The censorship issue is also not solved by a library. The librarian decides what books to buy and what magazines to subscribe to. They have community members who watch what they do and complain when community standards are violated. The most fascinating lie about censorship I've ever heard came from the mouth of a head librarian. You know, a government official with the power to keep published material out of the hands of the citizens. She denied there was any censorship at the library -- despite being the person most responsible for deciding which books would NOT be made available for free to the public in her county. (Yes, it's not true censorship because anyone can go to the next town over and hope they have the book there, or buy it themselves, but it fits "censorship" a lot better than a lot of things called "censorship" today.)
Libraries that have morphed into "community center" are surviving, bit not for the functions of a library. The number of people accessing the physical books is dwindling as the population ages and old people die. People don't "ask the librarian" as much anymore, especially if the question is in any way embarassing. It is truly better for the impersonal Google to cache your question about sex instead of having your neighbor the librarian knowing about it.
The "makerspace" function is surviving. The "meeting room" function is surviving. The "borrow a DVD so you can rip the content and have a free copy" function is growing. The online books function is growing (free books, by the way.)
And especially with Amazon. I remember shortly after Kindle came out, they remotely deleted all the George Orwell books people had bought
And your local librarian can walk over to the shelf and pull the copies the library has and send them to recycling, too. They pull old stuff all the time and nobody cares, because they need space to put the new books. They choose not to buy certain new books because they don't reflect community values or aren't perceived to be of sufficient interest to merit spending money on them. My "community values" means we gets several copies of Hillary's books and few, if any, of the opposing viewpoint. When I put a hold on "What Happened", or whatever it was called, I was a small number in line on a lot of copies. The same time I put a hold on a pro-Trump book, and I'm number 201 waiting for one copy.
If you think libraries are immune to such things with physical books, remember this. In the mid-50's, if I recall the year right, EVERY LIBRARY COPY of a Bell System Technical Journal had a couple of pages cut out of it. Those pages described the in-band long-distance signalling system that allowed hackers to build blue boxes and made Captain Crunch infamous. I checked. I found a college library that had copies of the journal and sure enough, it was missing those pages.
I didn't like the experience then and I don't think I'd like it now.
A few years ago I went to the library to read the magazines. It was a good experience. They had what I wanted, and they had nice comfy chairs to sit in while doing it. Not long ago I did the same thing. The selection was more limited and the comfy chairs had been replaced with hard-backed uncomfortable things. The place also smelled. (The
Is there a public service that these brain geniuses think can't be replaced by ~*the free market*~?
Because companies like Amazon are attempting to shape your consumption, they have to track your consumption. Not just your actual consumption, but everything that passes by your eyeballs is carefully cataloged so they can predict what you are likely to do in the future.
Libraries by contrast delete your borrowing history after you return a book. They do this explicitly to protect you from the government.
The public library is a traditional American institution designed to empower the people with information without enabling government persecution of thought crimes. It's astonishing that anyone who thinks of himself as "conservative" would entertain the idea of destroying libraries in favor of a brave new world of ubiquitous behavior tracking.
The whole fear of the government compiling a list of gun owners is laughable; if a future government wanted to confiscate everyone's guns, they could simply buy a list of gun owners from a commercial data broker. They could use big data to mine your purchase and web browser history, work up a complete psychographic profile on you including your political positions and personality quirks, a la Cambridge Analytica.
The one information source that doesn't paint a big fat target on your back is the public library.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
If you wanted to get rid of the library and put all the services online you'd need to have a community center where you can access the internet if you don't have access to it at home for some reason.
We have one of those in our town...it's called the library.
Congratulations! You either didn't read the summary, or you didn't think the last line applied to you.
But many of us aren't aware of the impact our libraries have on our own communities, nor the programs they offer.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
Now that's cool. I would go to that kind of thing regularly if it was available.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
Libraries are the first and last opportunity for an education. It is not a just place to get the latest movies and free p0rn. It is a place where a young person can go and be surrounded by a curated collection of stuff that is made just for them, where they can explore, learn, and maybe even create.
It is place for an older person to continue to be education. I recall when I changed careers that I spent may hours in the library. Being raised in the library meant that my interactions with librarians were scant, but I still need help.
We can provide air conditioned space much more cheaply, like in a mall. Amazon can provide many of the resources cheaply or for free. Google can provide answers, it the person knows how to ask the question and understand which answers are sound. But losing a library is not just about losing those things,. It is about losing the professional class of educators that are known as librarians.
It is kind of like charter schools. These can provide an cheaper experience for students, but the cost is the loss of the professional teacher class. While public schools tend to have a mix of teachers, with average experience of about a decade, charter schools tend to have an average teacher experience of a few years. This is because the teachers are TFA, which means they are there to earn money for graduate school, or they have to leave after three years because they can't pass the test.
It is a legitimate debate asking if certified teachers are necessary, but one factor is that we lose professional educators. We are already losing librarians, as I said the first and last defense for ignorance, because library funding is being minimized. The question we have to ask ourselves is Google, Amazon, and Facebook going to be the go to place for all our kids education?
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Free p0rn? What kind of library do you have out there?
Oh, right National Geographic. That's educational. Carry on then.
The Donnell Library in New York had a young adults collection that was the best collection of books for any teenager, or any adult trying to learn a new subject. I grew up in that library, from 1955 when it opened until Mayor Bloomberg destroyed it in 2008, in a botched attempt to sell the land to a developer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
What I appreciated the most was two sets of bookshelves in the 500s (math and science) and 600s (technology). I could stand in front of the bookcases and see every good science or math book I ever read, or wanted to read, displayed in a systematic order right in front of me. There were books I couldn't find in bookstores. My local bookstores (in Manhattan!) didn't have a copy of Arrowsmith* or Microbe Hunters. They didn't have The World of Mathematics. They didn't have Physics for Entertainment. But on the Donnell bookshelves, there they were.
The Donnell Library's Young Adult collection was built over 50 years by specialist librarians (with library training in addition to degrees in math, science, etc.) They started by ordering books from standard bibliographies for librarians (which are rapidly outdated), and then adjusted their collection with feedback from the students who came in, from math and science teachers who knew the best books, from reviews, and from experts in the field, using all kinds of tricks that librarians know (like citation analysis). Want to build a rocket? Look under Dewey Decimal 621.
The point is, they had a collection of about 1,000 or 2,000 (I'd guess) books, all of which were well-selected by the library users who read it. You could reach out and put your hand on a book that dozens or hundreds of other readers liked.
That's a display of well-selected, easily-accessible information. I challenge any computer interface designer to match it.
After the Donnell was destroyed, I tried to find another branch like that. The librarians directed me to the New York Public Library children's room. The room was run by a librarian who had no science training herself.
I looked at one of the shelves. It had 50 books on sharks. I know children's books https://www.swiny.org/2006/12/... , and I hate to put down a writer and illustrator who put their heart into a book. But some books on sharks are better than others. Under the influence of TV, publishers are cranking out books to meet the shark fad, without much difference between them. It's possible to write a book on sharks that will engage young readers and put them in a direction that will (sometimes) send them on a path for the rest of their lives. Some young adult/adult science books are great. Most of them are merely good enough. Librarians know the difference.
*I once went to a lecture at the New York Academy of Medicine, where a psychiatrist gave a lecture on evidence-based medicine, and randomized controlled trials, as applied to psychotherapy. He said that when he was in high school, he read one book that inspired him to have a career in science. He talked to his professional friends, and they had also read the same book, and it inspired them to a career in science too. I was astounded, because I had also read that book, and it inspired me to a career in science. That book was Sinclair Lewis' Arrowsmith. (The point he was making was that a critical part of the plot was the decision on whether to continue the randomized, controlled trial, or whether to give the treatment to everybody.) The Donnell Library had a copy of Arrowsmith. The NYPL children's/YA room, for all their shark books, didn't have Arrowsmith.
The point is that a library collection has to be compiled by the guiding intelligence of a librarian who knows the subject, knows the patrons, and knows what she's doing. A library collection compiled by the computer-generated library buying guides today is like a garbage dumpster full of books. Shark books. P
Panos Mourdoukoutas
FULL BIO
I’m Professor and Chair of the Department of Economics at LIU Post in New York. I also teach at Columbia University. I’ve published several articles in professional journals and magazines, including Barron’s, The New York Times, Japan Times, Newsday, Plain Dealer, Edge Singapore, European Management Review, Management International Review, and Journal of Risk and Insurance. I’ve have also published several books, including Collective Entrepreneurship, The Ten Golden Rules, WOM and Buzz Marketing, Business Strategy in a Semiglobal Economy, China’s Challenge: Imitation or Innovation in International Business, and New Emerging Japanese Economy: Opportunity and Strategy for World Business. I’ve traveled extensively throughout the world giving lectures and seminars for private and government organizations, including Beijing Academy of Social Science, Nagoya University, Tokyo Science University, Keimung University, University of Adelaide, Saint Gallen University, Duisburg University, University of Edinburgh, and Athens University of Economics and Business. Interests: Global markets, business, investment strategy, personal success.
i can see ongoing value in libraries even though I do all of my reading on Kindle and its library borrowing sibling, Overdrive. It's nice to have a community information center that not only still has a trove of physical books that may include irreplaceable references to local history and culture, but offers gathering places, high-quality printers, proctored search help, and even maker space equipment.
Now if only it were still legal to keep out the stinking bums. Libraries used to be places where you could send your kids unaccompanied to soak up some culture while they did their homework.
Sorry about the word-nazism, but this stuff really grates on me.
Never apologize for being a grammar Nazi. Lesser beings must be corrected!
(One day I might even try designing my own pattern.)
If you have a Windows 10 system kicking around anywhere, you may want to checkout the included "3D Builder" program.
It can import/export STL files and is a surprisingly good 3D design program for being Microsoft born.
I picked up the basic controls and functions within an hour, and after a few hours over a long weekend it no longer felt like I was fighting with 2d input devices in a 3d world.
My first project was to grab an NES cartridge slot lid from thingiverse and modify it for a retropie case mod.
I now have a lid with a hole and screw mounts for a 0.9" LCD, and the i2c wiring within the plastic running back to the hinge, as well as a custom logo cavity on the front.
Editing an existing design made it far quicker with the learning curve required and worked far better than KiCad for me. Perhaps once I get to making things from scratch I'll revisit higher end CAD programs, but for just dinking around to learn it works great.
It might even impress the kids by letting them throw their own little personal touches on an existing design without too much frustration.
So cool all the giant stores, many of them still in business, that are stocked, floor to ceiling with shelves and shelves of collector items for sale. Hey, kissing my ass is also a collectors item... wanna collect?
Despite what you may have heard, dead-tree-books aint dead just yet.
Most of the local libraries here are overrun with homeless, and all the problems they present to people who are otherwise trying to study in peace.
Except for the words most, overrun, homeless, problems, and people, what you wrote was almost correct. Just because YOUR local library is being misused, does NOT mean all are, or even most. Most libraries in my area are not overrun with homeless people. Maybe you just live in a shithole.
Oh, it's just a place where homeless people come to shave and go BM.
If you don't understand the meaning of a word, don't use it. The author of this summary clearly doesn't understand the verb "bode".
There's also the argument that you can write more effectively using a smaller vocabulary - this could have been expressed better by saying something like "The article did not go down well with many, ...", or "The article was not received well by many, ...".
But many of us aren't aware of the impact our libraries have on our own communities, nor the programs they offer.
As a "Friend of the Library" who pays money to be one, I have a good handle on the "programs".
1. They are a great place for homeless people to sleep during the day, with bathrooms and water fountains, and if they are literate enough, stuff to read. Also daily papers they can read the comics in and do the crosswords.
2. It's a free babysitting service when they run a movie night.
3. Some libraries (not mine) pay for toys that college kids can come play with, like 3D printers.
4. They have free (I think) meeting rooms, none of which are used by the local government to hold public meetings. Our city likes to have "lunch meetings" at the local Elks Club where they discuss city business and you get to pay $10 for lunch for the privilege of attending.
5. Free babysitting during the day, too.
6. An attraction to the downtown so the city can collect money from parking meters, and by ticketing people who stay 5 minutes too long (the cop shop is right across the street.)
There is a used bookstore right across the street that has a much larger stock of local history books, so "repository of old books" is not a unique feature of the library anymore. (The most interesting local history book I have read actually came free through Gutenberg, and isn't in the library.) The fire department and county have meeting rooms that people can use. Free wireless blankets the Uni.
The most book related service (other than loaning physical books, which is dropping in popularity) is their yearly book sale where they sell off used library books -- which puts to rest the claim that they are a stable repository of old books. That sale is well attended, especially by the used book dealers, and even though there is supposed to be a rule about no scanning of books for the first day of the sale, it is never enforced. I've pointed out violators and nothing is done about it. So, it seems, the library service being performed is being a profitable source of used books paid for by the taxpayers and sold for a profit by the dealers. A subsidy, they would call that.
Yes, libraries as libraries area a valuable asset. They aren't libraries as much anymore. And they aren't cheap to run, by their own choice. Our library continually begs for more tax money, after building a beautiful brick and glass monument to excess to keep the books they haven't sold yet in.
I live in a city of about 1.5 million people. 7% of our municipal budget goes to the library system. As you can tell from my earlier post, I'm happy for every cent invested that way. I think that's such an important indicator of the quality of life and people in a place. The nearby "big city" of 5 million people 30 miles away wastes most of its money on project housing and social programs. The libraries are treated similar, horribly underfunded hangouts for people who can't afford to be anywhere else. They look and smell like homeless shelters and people live in the bathrooms. The best part is we pay less taxes where I am.
The phrase 'The article did not bode well' *should* mean something like 'The article posed an existential threat' for something (like libraries). Or 'The article portended doom' or 'The article foretold disaster'
I think the writer wanted to say 'The article did not sit well'
Sorry about the word-nazism, but this stuff really grates on me.
You word-Nazism is welcome in a thread regarding the future of libraries.
In the words of Julia Child, "never apologize"
http://www.latimes.com/resizer...
That's the issue and the question is whether brick and mortar versions vary mostly towards a poor cost/benefit to the community.
That's a silly premise. That's like asking do roads provide an ample cost benefit to the community.
In this day and age libraries primary function needs to shift from housing permanent physical collections of books/media to other activities. Maybe the nostalgic need to maintain libraries as "libraries" is holding them back.
Where in your world can you get access to thousands of books for free? Other than pirating them off the internet you can't. You of course can pay for them but I don't have tens of thousands of dollars to pay books. That's only one benefit to having physical collections.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
That is so insane wrongly, I don't know where to begin. Libraries are archives of information of various media while providing a joint place for people to meet without the burden or expectation of regularly spending money. That is the literal core of what is needed in every community, big or small. If you actually looked into what libraries actually do, even the small ones, they provide a plethora of services which are very much community oriented with an emphasis on self-organization. Having that archive of curated local information is critical to the long-term sustainability of any community.
I find it amazing the degree to which people scoff at the notion of physical collection of books/media when still substantial amounts of information have not been digitized or have but are locked down either with DRM or incompatible formats. The ability to buy physical books/media online has some sort of counter to the idea ignores the extreme cost that can come into the rarity of older books/media, the physical damage that can come from shipping when due care is not taken, and the actual unavailability of large amounts of works that only exist in libraries and large private collections.
Put in other terms, can you name for me a collection of common novels and stories of 1743? Was there nothing interesting written that year? I don't think I'd be able to find such a book in my local library, but if I made it a mission to actually try to track down and read even a few such books, I have little doubt that a librarian is precisely the person who would actually try to help me and inter-library loans are almost certainly the only real chance of me being able to find, digitize, and share those books.
The year is 2018. In 2293 the books of today will be as old. Many will still not have been digitized and the cutting edge of today will be preserved in the libraries. Even the digitized ones may be difficult to access. Librarians are preservers who seek to maintain the stories and the legacy of the past for today so we may learn from them and further to provide for the future so they may not repeat our mistakes. It is beyond hubris to ignore how critical libraries are.
I read a number of Hillaryâ(TM)s released emails. None had anything Iâ(TM)d consider interesting except for her plans to bring in Amazon kindles to the detriment of local library funding. Odd that I remember this email, but I was pissed that she specifically identified Amazon, and not stating that it should be open for public bid. Naming a specific company seems dirty.
Horseshit. I have a two foot tall stack of haiku books on my coffee table precisely because almost none of it is on the internet. Ditto for my historical food & cooking collection. For my bookbinding collection, maybe 20% is available online - but scattered across a couple of hundred websites. Dead tree with an occasional reference to YouTube is much better. The same is true of my strategic weaponry collection, only a small fraction is available online (and that widely scattered).
I've maintained and enlarged my dead tree collection of these things precisely because years of searching on the internet has consistently returned bupkes.
While I'm certain there are topics for which the internet is a comprehensive reference - that is not at all true for all topics.
E-books are completely worthless to people who don't have something to read it on. Unless there's a library where they can use a computer for a while.
E-book readers don't have story hour for kids to get them interested in reading. E-books aren't typically free to read and often can't be passed around to friends.
Most librarians take a fairly dim view of censorship. If anything outside of the kid's section is censored, you can bet it wasn't the librarian's idea.
This is just yet another attempt to remove the last bit of actual public service so the tax money can be spent on more subsidies and pork (you didn't think taxes would go down, did you)?
Libraries are going away in their current form, so an attempt to sell it off wasn't necessarily a bad one, provided the money was used to create a network of alternatives that the less affluent could access.
Sounds very much like the new central library that I and my co-workers will be moving into in a few weeks. Our old central library was damaged in the devastating Christchurch earthquake of 2011. It was repairable, but had to be demolished because it was on part of the land required for the city's new convention centre.
https://www.star.kiwi/2017/09/...
https://www.star.kiwi/2018/07/...
And after the first nuke drops every ebook will be gone.
Don't get me wrong, I almost exclusively use ebooks, but to say that physical books are obsolete is a bit shortsighted.
We currently live in a small cottage so space is a big problem and I had to get rid of a LOT of books, but I kept my favorites, and when we had regular load shedding that came in handy.
"Oh my god I forgot to charge my kindle!" was not a problem, I just go to the book shelf and pick a book.
What I would like is a full set of encyclopedia's but they are not cheap and finding a second hand set is proving troublesome.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
All the content is available on the Internet, but that means you have to sift through all the content on the internet.
If you are trying to imply that all the content is available on the internet for free then you are wrong because it's not. The books certainly aren't free on the internet. As crazy as this sounds, some people like to read physical books and they like their children to read physical books, and unless you want to order them online and have them shipped (my small town's last bookstore, Hastings, closed down) your only choice is the very limited selection at the local Walmart or grocery store.
Forbes is a crap magazine, and Steve Forbes is a crap person who wanted people to be able to opt out of Social Security taxes to put their money into health savings accounts. More of the same stupid market fundamentalism about how THE MARKET will solve everything. Well, it didn't. That's why there are libraries. Idiots like Steve Forbes want to get rid of common goods and anything collective, not because they don't work, but because the don't BELIEVE they SHOULD work.
Make love, not reality television.
Will there also be books on grammar in the library?
I'd take issue with the concept that you're getting all this for free. Someone is paying for it. Now, I have absolutely no issue with the idea that people should club together to provide facilities that interest them (in fact I run a community workshop where people who wouldn't otherwise have access to forges, anvils, lathes and suchlike can use them), but here in the UK, local authorities (who have statutory obligations - their officers will go to prison if they don't carry these out) can no longer afford to subsidise the interests of a contracting portion of the population.
Want CNC milling or cheap 3-D printing on tap? Join a MakerSpace. Don't make everyone else pay for your convenience.
Thanks. I do have a Windows 10 computer so I'll have to try this out.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Point 4: are you forced to buy lunch? Is lunch available at the library?
I came here to say that. Thank you.
E-books are completely worthless to people who don't have something to read it on.
Paper books are completely worthless to people who cannot read. Paper books are completely worthless to people who cannot carry them around to read them. You can create all kinds of worthless situations for anything.
E-book readers don't have story hour for kids to get them interested in reading.
Kids go to school. School should be getting them interested in reading. That's one of the jobs of the schools.
Most librarians take a fairly dim view of censorship.
What? In any library, the person most responsible for the censorship is THE HEAD LIBRARIAN. He's the one making the buying decisions, he's the one that says "we don't buy that book", he's the one saying "we don't make that book available for free to our citizens". They SAY they take a dim view, they DENY they do it, but when you look at their actions you see the truth is different.
Before you rant about how I'm insulting librarians, I didn't. I am pointing out a fact of their job. They HAVE to make those decisions. They don't have enough money to buy every book or publication. They don't have space to store every book or publication. (By the way, that's another "completely worthless" feature of paper books: paper books are completely worthless if you don't have the space to store the paper book.) The only thing librarians need to accept is the fact they are doing it and stop denying that it is part of their job.
This is just yet another attempt to remove the last bit of actual public service
No, it is an evaluation of whether the "public service" that a library provides is either valuable enough to keep paying for, or something that the "library" should be doing instead of doing it some other less expensive way.
so the tax money can be spent on more subsidies and pork
I'm sorry, but free 3D printing is a subsidy and pork just like all the other pork you want to complain about.
(you didn't think taxes would go down, did you)?
Well, that's the downside to having a "library district" that has its own tax levy. It's easier to browbeat and cajole (and extort) more tax money from the public if you can say "we'll have to close the library if you don't give us more of your hard-earned money", but then it is more likely that taxes will go down if the library stops needing the money and cannot justify renewing the tax levy. Yes, when a tax levy expires taxes actually go down.
Indeed, I'm a rabid right winger and, guess what? The tiny amount of money that a public library takes for the services it provides is fantastic. I'll happily pay to support it.
Point 4: are you forced to buy lunch?
It's in the Elk's dining room, so yes, buying a lunch is how you get a seat. It's not a public meeting room.
Is lunch available at the library?
Why the hell should the library be serving lunch? Of course not. A public meeting discussing public operation of the public government should not have "lunch" as part of the requirement. Either eat before or after, or bring a snack, or go without. You should have the choice. It is ridiculous to exclude people from participating in a public meeting just because they don't have the money to buy a lunch or don't want to eat what the Elks serve.
There are free programs to help people who can't read learn how to. I'll bet you can find out about such programs AT THE LIBRARY. Other then the library, there is not a free program to lend people books to read or readers to let them read free e-books (which mostly aren't offered except for ancient books out of copyright). There are resources on the internet IF you have internet access and something to browse with. That's where the library comes in.
If they can't carry the book around, libraries offer a place to sit and read.
As for the rest, you have confused censorship with choosing on a limited budget and with limited space what books will do the most good for the most people. If they get more money and more space they will choose more.
As for the 3D printing, you typically pay for the materials used and even enough over to eventually pay for the printer. They just don't try to turn it into a profit center.
Technically, an ebook that you can purchase from amazon and read on a kindle is also "available" on the Internet. OTOH, I'm sure you can find examples of books that simply can't be found online in any form.
There are free programs to help people who can't read learn how to.
That's nice. The point remains, it is possible to create situations where anything is completely worthless -- including paper books and libraries. Pointing to cases when ebooks are useless doesn't prove anything any more than my cases where paper books are worthless did.
Other then the library, there is not a free program to lend people books to read or readers to let them read free e-books (which mostly aren't offered except for ancient books out of copyright).
I read lot of ebooks for free. Some are out of copyright, but many are not. The two main sources I have are because the libraries pay a fee -- which could be paid to Amazon to do the same thing if Amazon started providing that service. Therefore, Amazon could easily take over the lending function of the library for ebooks, and we both know that there are lots of cases where paper books are completely worthless.
If they can't carry the book around, libraries offer a place to sit and read.
Public parks offer a place to sit and read, for free. You see, libraries aren't necessary.
As for the rest, you have confused censorship with choosing on a limited budget and with limited space what books will do the most good for the most people.
Both fit the commonly used definition of censorship. I also don't remember when I elected the librarian to decide what was "the most good" for me.
As for the 3D printing, you typically pay for the materials used and even enough over to eventually pay for the printer.
Thus a subsidy. You're not paying the true cost. And it has nothing at all to do with the real function of a library. It's a makerspace.
I read lot of ebooks for free. Some are out of copyright, but many are not. The two main sources I have are because the libraries pay a fee
Yep, there's those libraries again! Indeed, perhaps if Amazon ever decides to offer such a service (IF), the LIBRARIES might throw a few bux their way too. But how are you going to read them without a reader and an internet connection?
Public parks offer a place to sit and read, for free. You see, libraries aren't necessary.
Where do you live where the parks have shelves of books for reading? Which is it, are some people unable to carry them around or not? So where will you get the books to read in the park if not the library?
For someone who wants libraries gone, you sure do seem to be digging up a lot of reasons why they should continue existing.
Thus a subsidy. You're not paying the true cost. And it has nothing at all to do with the real function of a library. It's a makerspace.
Let's see, they're collecting the cost of materials and the cost of the hardware. Where is the subsidy again?
Providing a way for auto-didacts who are long on drive and short on cash to improve their knowledge. Sounds on-mission to me.
> Public parks offer a place to sit and read, for free. You see, libraries aren't necessary.
I live in Minnesota, you ins-s-s-s-ensitive c-c-c-clod!
I think you're confused about what censorship is. The librarian is not telling you what you can't read simply by offering something other than what you want. They will be happy to help you track down what you're looking for through interlibrary loan or online.
In fact libraries today, by offering e-books and Internet stations, are giving you access to FAR more books and periodicals than was EVER possible in the past, when they had to pick and choose what to keep in their limited stack space.
Books and libraries, also newspapers and periodicals, are quickly becoming obsolete. With the internet, cellphones, Kindles, Tablets, Blackberries and a few other things... info has become easier and more plentifully obtainable (and more fun) than what boring environmentally burdensome books or newspaper can provide! Say goodbye to paper, especially phonebooks! We can save money and the environment. These days, "libraries" are just about little more than free "internet cafes" anyhow. People go there when their home PCs are on the fritz or they don't own one. This is the age of technology! This is the best example: We're all online reading news websites every day. We don't need to buy newspapers. This is more fun and more updated and more colourful and less messy and less burden AND it's interactive. It's what makes news sites fun!