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PC Case Maker CaseLabs Closes Permanently (pcgamer.com)

U.S.-based PC case manufacturer, CaseLabs, announced on social media that it is "closing permanently" and will not be able to fill all current orders. "We have been forced into bankruptcy and liquidation," CaseLabs said in a statement. "The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages), which cut deeply into our margins. The default of a large account added greatly to the problem... We reached out for a possible deal that would allow us to continue on and persevere through these difficult times, but in the end, it didn't happen." PC Gamer reports: CaseLabs is likely referring to the growing number of tariffs being enforced on Chinese imports by the United States government. China and the US are currently engaged in a trade war, causing many U.S. companies to lose money, lay off employees, or close entirely. CaseLabs went on to say that it won't be able to fill the backlog of case orders, but other parts will most likely ship to customers. "We are so incredibly sorry this is happening. Our user community has been very devoted to us and it's awful to think that we have let any of you down."

401 comments

  1. Look at all these jobs... by Narcocide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... that Trump has made for America!

    1. Re:Look at all these jobs... by MadCat221 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I figured it out. "Make America Great Again" means either one of two things:

      1: It's a commandment to whoever succeeds him.

      2: It's actually Make America (enter another) Great (depression) Again

      ...Or both.

    2. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... that Trump has made for America!

      Look at all these "made in USA" companies going bankrupt the minute taxes are imposed on imports from China!

    3. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the only people Trump hurt with his tariffs were Americans, especially those that voted for him. He acts like a psychopath who enjoys hurting everyone really.

    4. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but it provide 1000's of jobs to American workers in the steel industry. Maybe they should find a US source of steel.

    5. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Canada and Mexico.

      You do realize that a lot of things (like really materials) are being tariffed, yes?

    6. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No one cares if "assembled in America" jobs are lost. Too many "made in America" companies make the majority of their product in China, and then have an American stamp on a logo to call it "made in America."

      Fuck 'em.

      Trump is restoring actual American jobs and actual American companies. He's making America great again, and the amount of hatred shown towards that simple fact is honestly bewildering. I never realized how many people who live in the USA truly hate America.

    7. Re:Look at all these jobs... by dk20 · · Score: 1

      This is really odd.. as trump stated that the other countries would be paying these terrifs and the US woudl be making "a lot of money" as a result of them so the US was in a "no lose" position?

      i guess the importer pays them?

      the best part so far.. when trump was praising HarleyDavidson one moment as a "Great american company" then slamming them the next over actions they had to take over his own crazy policy.

    8. Re: Look at all these jobs... by giggleloop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that's how you end up with cases that cost $500 and are kinda crappy.

    9. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, hatred of America.... Brought to you by the intolerant left who wish to destroy anything if it means pushing forward their globalization socialist agenda.... And shepple still buy into it with eyes closed, not realizing it hasn't worked anywhere....

    10. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should provide a source for your 1000's of jobs claim.

    11. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As much as i hate Trump, if we are going to correct the trade imbalances we should expect a turbulent job market.

      Companies âoeassemblingâ products in the USA will go under and rightfully so.

    12. Re:Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Funny

      It is at least 800 this year, and given that ever manufacturing job creates 3.6 additional jobs, that would be around 3000+ new jobs from US Steel expansion this year, alone.

      You're welcome.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    13. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Harley Davidson outsourced long before Trump showed up. Plenty of 'Made In Japan' parts, and that's going back over 20 years.

    14. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck off you god damn russian troll - go back to sucking off putin

    15. Re: Look at all these jobs... by julian67 · · Score: 1

      It's not even an American stamping a logo. I was looking at rodent traps on aliexpress and noticed some stamped "Made in Iowa". I'm in the UK and if I bought these items their connection to the USA would not even be as much as a freight carrier or a delivery man.

    16. Re:Look at all these jobs... by hazem · · Score: 1

      i guess the importer pays them?

      I believe import tariffs are paid by the party doing the importing. In the US, that extra payment goes directly to the federal government.

      From: http://www.chicagotribune.com/...

      "Tariffs are a tax on imports. They're typically charged as a percentage of the transaction price that a buyer pays a foreign seller. Say an American retailer buys 100 garden umbrellas from China for $5 apiece, or $500. The U.S. tariff rate for the umbrellas is 6.5 percent for umbrellas. The retailer would have to pay a $32.50 tariff on the shipment, raising the total price from $500 to $532.50."

    17. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nicely done

    18. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is just like payroll taxes. If local or federal taxes increase on an employer, the customer pays. Everytime we get behind some candidate saying increase taxes, get ready for a cost of living increase.

    19. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Donald Trump raped my goat!

    20. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least I won't lose my job to trumpian-lack-economics-101 ahahaha suckuh

    21. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mighty American Goat Abusers!

    22. Re:Look at all these jobs... by dk20 · · Score: 1

      I know, i was referring to their announcment about shifing productioni to EU over the Tarrifs : https://www.cbc.ca/news/busine...

      Was this really Tarrif related, or an excuse? Regardless, it was Funny to watch Trump pitch a "Great american company" with big Harley's on the whitehouse lawn one momemt, then stab them the next.

    23. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thatâ(TM)s not 1,000â(TM)s of steelworker, which is what the guy was refuting.

    24. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Streetlight · · Score: 1

      There are two possible results from the $32.50 increase in cost to the umbrella company: raise the sale price of umbrellas by $0.325 each to keep profit constant or eat the price increase and reduce profits by $0.325 per umbrella. The latter choice may not be viable if profits are at or below $0.325 per umbrella. Who pays the tariff if the company stays in business? The persons/customers who buy the umbrellas. Another result is the tariff increases inflation leading to increased interest rates on borrowed money. Non umbrella purchasers are affected by the tariffs. If the company goes out of business there are other obvious and non obvious consequences.

      In another example involving tariffs involves importers of American made goods. I've read that the largest exporter to China of US made automobiles is BMW - about 500,000 cars per year. BMWs are not $5 umbrellas and and any tariff on them will be real money. China has imposed a tariff on them and BMW is considering moving manufacturing to China with the result of job losses at their US plant. The laid-off employees may gain unemployment compensation for a while, which has other complicated fiscal and personal consequences.

      --
      In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    25. Re:Look at all these jobs... by spineboy · · Score: 0

      Sure, but how may more jobs were lost due to the tariffs? Count this company 100, and Harley Davidson moving a plant across the ocean say another 200 jobs lost. I personally know of several other business owners who are shutting down from tariff costs,

      that probably equals that 800 jobs lost, or by the 3.4 multiplier 3000 less jobs from the tariff.

      Steel is just the basic building block. Those higher prices are going to affect EVERY US manufacturing job adversely.

      Thanks........ :-/

      --
      ..........FULL STOP.
    26. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More excuse than anything, they've been planning this for a while. Article from 2014: https://www.reuters.com/article/harleydavidson-results-offshoring-idUSL2N0PX1MT20140722

      I like the simultaneous positions of "all made in the USA" vs "the foreign-made parts showed up late".

      At least they've decided to actually make bikes rather than just be a marketing company slapping their brand on Chinese-made knick-knacks. (Perfume, I mean really...)

    27. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      U.S. Steel said they "plan to" add those 800 jobs.

      800 is less than thousands.

      800 * 3.6 = 2,880, which is less than 3,000+.

      An impressive demonstration of credulity and bad math.

      Did you take econ classes at Trump U or George Mason?

    28. Re: Look at all these jobs... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I was looking at rodent traps on aliexpress

      Man, you know how to have fun.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    29. Re: Look at all these jobs... by julian67 · · Score: 2

      I don't, but the local rodents do. This is all about to change, thanks to an enterprising Chinese man who knows how to spell Iowa.

    30. Re:Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Approximately 3 people in this company. So not 100 - but 3. But hey, it's great grist to blame the tariff as causing a $178,000 annual revenue company failing (please ignore the fact that the "default of a large account added greatly to the problem").

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    31. Re:Look at all these jobs... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Given that ever manufacturing job creates 3.6 additional jobs

      So, I assume that means that every manufacturing job lost means 3.6 additional jobs lost. So the Carrier and Harley-Davidson plants moving out of the country will more than offset those "3000+" new jobs created by the degenerate president's tariffs. According to your math.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    32. Re:Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      You mean more than 2880 - as US Steel plans to add more than 800 jobs this year. I'd say that's close enough to 3000...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    33. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      So you admit Trump is destroying manufacturing jobs in America while he gives away Billions to soybean farmers because of the damage he's creating which probably isn't likely to solve any imbalance, now worsens it.

      As much as Trump is deserving of being hanged for treason, jailed for obstruction/conspiracy/fraud/election violations, and tarred and feathered for being a cunt, none of this trade war helps the American economy at all.

      You're a moron trying to apologize for another moron's massive failure by pretending it's necessary and good, a preordained outcome. That's retarded.

    34. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      funny how no one cites the US jobs moved overseas in the last 20+ years, such as Harley making the engines overseas , and only look at the current moment..

    35. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way over 20 years. Even the mid 70's Sportsters had Showa suspension and used the same speedometer and tachometer as Honda was using.

    36. Re: Look at all these jobs... by gtall · · Score: 2, Informative

      So far, Trump hasn't restored any jobs save a few steel production jobs. The Make America Great Again will raise prices on every product America produces. That will mean we all get to pay more, and those companies will be at a disadvantage when attempting to compete outside the U.S. So enjoy your Kool-Aid while it lasts, but declaring economic war on more or less the entire world shows just how ignorant Trump and his advisors from Fox are about modern economies.

    37. Re:Look at all these jobs... by gtall · · Score: 1

      Errr...you do realize the U.S. has been creating roughly 200,000 jobs over all for the past few years, yes? And you are in awe of 3000. In numbers, proportion matters.

    38. Re:Look at all these jobs... by gtall · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To put a finer point on your point, Trump says the tariffs will pay down the U.S. debt. Hmmm....so if taxed $500 Billion of Chinese exports at 25%, we have $125 Billion. The U.S. has a roughly $20 Trillion dollar debt, that'd be $20,000 Billion. So Trump has a way to go...waaayyy...waayyys to go because... ...courtesy of his and the R's tax give away, we will now have $1 Trillion deficit this year and in succeeding years, it only gets worse. And they promised us that the tax give away would pay for itself. Hmmm...Voodoo Economics rises from the Dead, Repeat ye of Little Faith.

    39. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is disturbing when you look at a piece of high end networking gear (as I did recently), see that every internal part is stamped "Made in China" (circuit boards, sheet metal, sub-assemblies, etc), and yet on the outside label, it says "Country of origin: United States". The "country of origin" is no more the United States than it is my dining room table after I get done disassembling it and putting it back together.

      I'm with you - I am all in favor of bringing back real manufacturing jobs to the US.

    40. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no free health care in Europe and the education sucks balls.
      The "free health care" is a lie they keep repeating in absurdity.
      And the shit we normal people eat you would not even touch with a stick in the USA. Maybe some horse, pork, barley and offal sausage? How about some blood pudding? Its pigs blood and flour, boiled and the fried! Yummy! Poor quality beef? 20USD/lbs. How about eight bucks for a gallon of gas? One night in a "cheap" hotel? 100USD.

      The only thing you get with socialism is extreme taxes and poor and expensive products. Go ahead all you socialist shills, call me a liar.

    41. Re: Look at all these jobs... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No one cares if "assembled in America" jobs are lost.

      Except the people who have those jobs.

      Fuck 'em.

      This is indeed the core of #MAGA.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    42. Re: Look at all these jobs... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      I was looking at rodent traps on aliexpress and noticed some stamped "Made in Iowa".

      Well, if you need so many rodent traps that it's worth finding that kind of discount then I take my hat off to you, you have one hell of a rodent problem. Best of luck.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    43. Re:Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Read the thread. I'm not "in awe" of 3000 jobs. Previous poster challenged the idea that the tariff would create 3000 jobs, I posted data showing it would. Simple as that. I would expect someone with a 5 digit UID to be able to follow simple threads and not invent straw-men to rant against.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    44. Re:Look at all these jobs... by c++horde · · Score: 0

      CNBC is not credible source. Most of the internet is no credible. Blah, blah, blah. I'm fine with the Tarriffs, sucks that CaseLabs is going under, but to blame tariffs is stupid. Their overpriced product obviously isn't superior to its competitors, such as Apevia, which is made in the USA.

    45. Re: Look at all these jobs... by cbraescu1 · · Score: 1
      --
      Catalin Braescu
      Ofaly.com
    46. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 1

      You mean more than 2880 - as US Steel plans to add more than 800 jobs this year. I'd say that's close enough to 3000...

      Personally I don't trust the word of U.S. Steel. They bought a steel company in my home town and part of the deal was keeping it open. They closed it.

    47. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's interesting. Why doesn't BMW build in Europe for the Chinese market ? Do the European manufacturing costs and tariffs not work either ? Or it's possible that it makes a shitload of sense to build local in a massive market when all your parts are manufactured there anyway, and they were considering that anyway ?

    48. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UID shaming in this day and age? Are we at /. not Awake?

    49. Re: Look at all these jobs... by julian67 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's time to admit the truth. I have no rodent problem. No mice, no rats. Some squirrels in the garden but that's fine. Here is the real reason for me looking at rodent traps on aliexpress: my young nieces wanted pets. Their mother, my sister, got them fancy rats. The girls like them but not enough to properly take care of them, clean their living spaces and all the stuff that domesticated animals require.

      I do not like rats. I have lived in Bangkok. I do not ever want to be close to another rat, wild or domesticated, cooked and presented on a stick, or live and actively ratty, or anything in between. I am rather keen on helping these unwanted pets on their journey to rat heaven or hell, which are probably indistinguishable to the human eye but may actually closely resemble Bangkok. Or Chennai (less fresh food but the human faeces is that much more accessible). So I casually browsed rodent traps on my favourite shopping site. I didn't buy any yet, but have greatly enjoyed the very explicit and frank illustrations of the products' successes.

      Thank you for your interest. Have some cheese.

    50. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hotels are typically half of that. Some places have universal health care (i.e. either you don't need to pay to see a doctor, or you need to do a minimal co-pay). Much the same for medicine. The price of beef is typically much less than that unless you go to some place like Norway. I could go into deep-fried food into the US, or you don't seem to use actual sugar in anything which makes your sweets smell awful (worse than cough syrup), but then again...

      Blood pudding is a specialty. It's not something people eat all the time. It's pretty good actually. Fuel prices are high due to taxes yes and that's to minimize imports and fuel dependency on Middle Eastern oil.

    51. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your job requires cheap china shit to stay solvent...

      The writing was clear for ~2 years. If you didn't listen by now you're fucking stupid.

    52. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Chas · · Score: 5, Interesting

      *sets aside the TDS crazy*

      Sorry, do you even know who Case Labs is?

      They're a low volume, high price boutique computer case seller.

      Sure, there are $2,000,000 cars out there. But not many people buy them. As there may be no value proposition for them.
      Sure, Case Labs makes $500+ cases. But not many people buy them. As there is no value proposition for them.

      As such, anything that even MODESTLY disrupts their price/profit model is going to wreak havoc.

      And that's under the naive assumption that there are NO other market forces acting on them. Remember what I said about few people dropping $500+ for a case? And the fact that there are other boutique sellers out there as well?

      Also, CaseLabs is based in California. Probably THE most business-unfriendly state in the union. I wouldn't be surprised if their efforts to legislate businesses out of business didn't drastically impact their employee and insurance costs.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    53. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This company relied on cheap imports and lies (as tariffs don't make things even close to 80% more expensive). They're also a Californian company. No way they'd ever give up on an opportunity to blame Trump for their own failure.

    54. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Trump is destroying manufacturing jobs in America"
      Every time a manufacturer faces hardship Trump gets blamed. Which is 100% grade A bullshit peddled by those occupying the lower tier in the IQ department. Even with China and other SE Asia countries who use slave level wages to create cheap exports the US is ranked #2 in the manufacturing competitiveness standings. And the future predication based on prior output and profitability puts the US ahead of China in 2020.

      Forget Trump. He will be gone in a few years. Focus your gave and arguments on the problems not on the on the people who created the problems in the first place. Every righteous protester roaming the streets today have one goal. They take what they consider a universe ending crisis and put all their efforts into placing blame for the crisis. Placing the blame is done all in accordance with their political bent and skewed worldview. After the blame has been firmly affixed, and it doesn't matter if the blame was assigned to the right individual or group, they move on to the next outrage and the problem still remain. And realize that like any President Trump inherited today's major problems from his predecessor. And Obama raised tariffs on Aluminum during his first term and the move didn't seem to bother anyone. If you think it is only wrong when Trump does the same thing then you best sit back and stop cluttering the world up with your idiocy and for the sake of the future you shouldn't pass that mental deficiency to any offspring.

      The US is the only country that is expected to sacrifice anything and everything to placate the "international" community. Why is it OK for the EU to impose 6% tariffs on US car imports but the US can only impose 4% tariffs on car exports to the EU? And this is just one example of the US forced to accept less. And foreign government is complaining because the existing trade agreements are fair and balanced. They are complaining because things like this is shouldn't be discussed in public.

      China acts like it is still a failed Communist full of barefoot peasants and approach any economic agreements from this position. The Europeans act as if WW2 ended last week and they need more favorable trade agreements to help them "recover".

      And the rest of the world seems to be a little slow on understanding just how much the US population doesn't give two shits about the "international" community.

    55. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 2

      i guess the importer pays them?

      The end consumer always pays in the end. Trump is betting that increased prices for US consumers will hurt America less than reduced sales for foreign vendors will hurt their respective countries. I think he is betting wrong. Everyone else is doing free trade deals among themselves and diversifying to reduce their reliance on US markets. That weakening of the importance of the US to global trade will last long after Trump is gone.

    56. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing how you can complain so much about the good economic numbers.

      Many of you were saying he'd kill the economy, but you may have noticed that he hasn't.

    57. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you spout such knee jerk gibberish how can expect anyone to take anything you say seriously?

      Sad. Very sad.

    58. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only 1 Trillion? That sounds a lot better than the doubling of the US debt under the previous administration

    59. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      Yeah, fortunately, he's too busy golfing.

    60. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      Tarrifs are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of jerbs is mere cant.

    61. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      I figured it out. "Make America Great Again" means either one of two things:

      1: It's a commandment

      Close, but no cigar. It is just a brand of Condiment that starts sales in about 2.5 years. It was originally a stake sauce, but had to be reformulated.

    62. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      Sorry, "stake sauce" was supposed to be followed by a clever zombie joke, but I came up short. Anybody?

    63. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The door plate of my Nissan says it was made in the USA by Ford, but the engine and drive train were definitely made in Japan.

    64. Re:Look at all these jobs... by gordguide · · Score: 1

      Harley Davidson outsourced long before Trump showed up. Plenty of 'Made In Japan' parts, and that's going back over 20 years.

      Ah, Millennials. Everything started in 2000 by their quaint concepts of history. Sort of like how on television, all the documentaries are about WWII or later, because there is almost no film prior to the 1930's, and about half the film from the 1930's was shot by toadies of you-know-who (or maybe you don't. Some guy with the initials AH).

      Perhaps by "over 20 years" you are referring to such things as the Kehin carburetors and Showa forks found on 1970's Shovelheads?

    65. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Youâ(TM)re either a fool or disingenuous. It isnâ(TM)t that there are so many American people who hate America. Itâ(TM)s that we love the America weâ(TM)ve been building and donâ(TM)t want to regress back into the racist and xenophobic past. We donâ(TM)t want to make America great again. We want to keep making it greater and greater.

    66. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      They're a low volume, high price boutique computer case seller.

      Sure, there are $2,000,000 cars out there. But not many people buy them. As there may be no value proposition for them.

      They stated "tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent." Lots of case makers choose to serve a niche, maybe to avoid being dislodged by high volume offshore manufacturers. Maybe because not everybody needs to be the next Dell. There are many factors of course, but they told you a major one, are you calling that a lie?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    67. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That reminds of an ancient Hallmark teaching, about a racist guy with two wolves trapped inside him, one good and one bad.

      Don't feed this fantasy. Don't sentence yourself to Hallmark Hell. There are other solutions.

    68. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is he making America great, and for whom?

      I'll bet you have no evidence of him making anything great, and are someone who believes Fox is actually news.

    69. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      An alternative explanation might be that you posted a planned (i.e. not actual) number and multiplied it by another number that you pulled out of your arse to get it into the order of magnitude you wanted.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    70. Re:Look at all these jobs... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      If by "he" you mean Agent Orange, it's not for his lack of trying. Plus he has at least two more years to wreak havoc.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    71. Re: Look at all these jobs... by julian67 · · Score: 1

      We don't have Hallmark here in UK. Or wolves. There is no moral or ethical conflict. The rats are in deep shit.

    72. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      Don't forget to read the article before linking next time. Or geeze, at least scan it.

      First, it was actually talking about the ratio of employees directly manufacturing something to the number of office workers at the same company.

      Second, the source was studies of Intel, in the Portland, OR metro region.

      And it is true; manufacturing jobs at Intel in Beavertron are directly connected to non-manufacturing staffing levels at related facilities, and that includes a lot of contractors who technically have a different employer, but whose jobs are still tied to the Intel facilities.

      However, that does not add up to any sort of argument that adding workers at a commodity manufacturer would cause more jobs to be created. Commodities don't have the same sort of sales, management, and R&D support that an electronics hardware company has. Obviously.

    73. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The rest of the world declared economic war on the US years ago. The only thing that's changed is that Trump is finally standing up for America and Americans and is fighting back.

      It's not surprising that the Hate America First crowd is against this, but the intensity of the anti-Americanism is truly astounding.

    74. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      American companies that sell overpriced shit deserve to die. Trump's idea of Make American Great Again has nothing to do with what you're saying.

      Since you love globalization so much, get ready for the Chinese-made home appliances that have American brand names. Those things are not made in the U.S.A., have high prices, and have typical Chinese quality: shit. GE's appliances, before they got out of the market, were shit probably due to Neutron Jack's idiotic legacy at the company. One look at GE tells you all you need to know about how sustainable the way things were (offshoring everything to China and India, neverending layoffs, massive financial engineering to guarantee massive bonuses for executives who hollowed out the company.) GE is a joke and shareholders (which include many non-GE workers' pensions) and GE employees (not GE executives) have paid the price for it.

      The proper way of doing things for American companies is to charge a higher price to reflect the higher costs of living in the U.S. and a living wage to the workers while delivering a good or better product. The Leatherman tools that are made in the U.S.A. are a good example of this (their Chinese-made line is shit) and Sears' Craftsman brand of tools used to be a good example of this, too.

    75. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, because since Harley-Davidson is not a commodity product, but actually a premium product whose sales are based on the brand, it will more closely match Intel, the manufacturer in the cited study. Steel manufacturers don't produce all those extra jobs, it is a much lower number because the products are all fungible with low margins.

      So 1000 direct jobs lost manufacturing a brand-driven product would cause many more losses, probably over 4000 total, but adding 1000 steel manufacturing jobs would only increase the total workforce by maybe 1200-1500 jobs.

    76. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      It is at least 800 this year

      A few things.

      1) US Steel planning to add. Planning. Believe it when you see it. This isn't your grandad's blast furnace, today the steel industry is highly automated. And how many times must you endure this Trump promise charade before you recognize the pattern?

      2) What is the chance that somebody from Trump's administration did not "make a deal" to elicit that US Steel press release? (I'll help you here: exactly zero.)

      3) The Tax Foundation estimates that the Trump tariffs will immediately result in the loss of 48,585 jobs and that job losses could number as high as 250,000 Subtract from your 800 (I'll be charitable) then multiply by your precious 3.6 additional jobs. Reality.

      4) Everybody knows these things except Trump's "Q pack".

      5) Here's another one for you. It's a wave all right, these are not promises, these are things that actually happened.

      6) The value of iron and steel produced in 2014 was $113 billion.

      7) Software Industry Growth Far Outpaces US Economy, Hits $1.14 Trillion.

      8) Go to lake Erie, get some lungfuls of that rust belt air. Yum yum, really miss that rust belt.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    77. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Errr...you do realize the U.S. has been creating roughly 200,000 jobs over all for the past few years, yes? And you are in awe of 3000. In numbers, proportion matters.

      These 3000 jobs are being talked about in isolation literally for the purpose of looking at proportions.

      I'm not even convinced by your comment that you understand the difference between a proportion and an absolute amount. Sheesh.

      I recommend 5 minutes of self-flagellation with a cluestick.

    78. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Read the thread. I'm not "in awe" of 3000 jobs.

      True. Misty eyed with a bit of drool is more like like it.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    79. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if the ending price is below cost, because costs are already sunk into making the umbrella.

      Umbrellas that lack a brand or unique aesthetic are a commodity item. The economic expectation is that the sale price eventually will equal the cost of materials. Note that that is always going to be below the cost of production!

      Without regional arbitrage, the expectation would be that fungible umbrellas would eventually cease production, leaving only more expensive branded ones on the market, until at some point there was enough demand to restart the cycle with cheap umbrellas again. The commodity manufacturers will likely go out of business at the end of every cycle if they're not diversified.

      The idea that it isn't viable to eat the whole cost is just silly. Of course they eat the whole cost, they go out of business more slowly that way than if they just sit on a warehouse of umbrellas and refuse to sell at a loss. Warehousing has costs, you can't just sit on it the way you might sit on a security.

    80. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Niche business blames someone besides their own short visioned model as the reason they went out of business? How novel of them! Of course this is the truth. 100%. How foolish we are of doubting them. There's no way they could lie, especially with the convenient political spin put to it all.

    81. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or... make them in the US.

      How many people want a $500+ case? I am sure their costs where high running out of California.

      If a company cannot diversify their portfolio, they are bound to failure.

    82. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      No, that means you're in deep shit. You're still obsessed with the rats, it is your own mental health that you should be protecting, not theirs.

      You can't imagine this right now, but if you'd chill out, that would be bad for the rats. They're slaves without even any make-work to do; prisoners for nothing. You going crazy and hating them is their best chance for escape, regardless of if you can understand that, or why it would be so.

      The rats are your enemy, and what is bad for you is good for them; what is good for you is bad for them.

      What benefits them the most is that you don't perceive good morals as being something that benefits you! You assume bad morals benefit you, and so you take on the side of the psychological exchange that receives the most harm.

    83. Re:Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      You can see the links where I sourced my numbers. Up to you to simply click...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    84. Re: Look at all these jobs... by julian67 · · Score: 1

      I didn't read all of that. It just seemed agitated and mad in line one, which is where I quit.

      Have some cheese.

    85. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The jokes on you, leftie. There are probably more black Nazis than there are Russian trolls.

    86. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A "pretend" labour shortage to displace American IT workers with
      cheap (read not-inexpensive) foreign Indian labour.

      I'd gladly pay $25.00 for an American made broom if it meant
      that we kept the dollars in the US.

      CAP === 'durable'

    87. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      Or a job making said cases.

      Too bad Obama improved the economy so much there is a labor shortage.

    88. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Pope! There's a Nazi hiding under your bed! Better go catch him!

    89. Re: Look at all these jobs... by ravenshrike · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, they state tariffs and shortages have raised prices of components by 80%. which is pretty good evidence that they that they have a single source supplier which is having troubles of its own separate from the tariffs. Combined with a large account defaulting they were screwed, not by the tariffs but by an extremely weak and conditional business model.

    90. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Iranian military kills fags.
      The Russian military is full of them. Why so you think Putin went around shirtless (and waxed!), before he got fatter anyway.

    91. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can make an matx case by hand for about $12 worth of sheet steel, $1.50 in pop rivets and negligible wear on on a drill tip. A basic power drill is not an undue burden for a man to own, and the sheet metal brake and aviation snips for cutting and folding the sheet steel were under thirty bucks each and already in my toolkit for other projects. A hundred bucks in capex is not a problem for a business and is under a buck a unit if amortized over a month or so production. That's fifty to a hundred bucks a case, including three and a half to eight hours of minimum wage labor.

      It would take me about two hours to make the case. Less if I used a drill press and a table or band saw, or if I did them in batches for mass assembly.

    92. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I'm not the one spending my leisure time window shopping for tools to murder pets.

    93. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You did read it, got angry, proving it to be true, then hate posted as if you weren't going to waste your time with it. Of course your posting a non rebuttal just underscores his point.

      #sad

    94. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. He kicked you.

    95. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because to according to vague assertions, that 800 will be 3.6 as many, and those when multiplied by 3.6*3.6*3.6*3.6*3.6... Is hundred of millions of jobs for America!

      This rate of flow is amazing and completely valid, unlike lowering taxes on the poor, allowing them to spend more, or national science funding, which just leads to people burning the cash with no second order effects.

    96. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the perspective of someone living in Yurp, he's certainly done that.

    97. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You might be able to argue that Obama did nothing demonstrable to HURT the US economy, but there is no way he actually helped it.

      Ditto goes for the House and Senate during his Presidency.

    98. Re: Look at all these jobs... by julian67 · · Score: 1

      That's right. You're not engaging in real life. You're merely commenting on it. In a thoroughly predictably way. To no effect.

    99. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      He also drove a company that is literally synonymous with America-Harley Davidson-to start producing overseas and is now calling for a boycott as well. An American president is calling for a boycott of a flagship American brand.....

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    100. Re: Look at all these jobs... by jythie · · Score: 1, Insightful

      California.. the 5th largest economy in the world... is business unfriendly?

    101. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn straight

    102. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drill bit lol, do you have any idea about sheet metal fabrication? I expect you'd fold it with a hammer too.

      You're not going to bother with the fancy Chinese zinc plating and powder coating like in a proper case then, just settle for some mangled rusty abortion? MAGA indeed.

    103. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your link illustrates Harley's understanding of both the pros and cons of offshoring. Trump's tariffs tipped the balance so bikes for the EU market will in future not be made in the USA.

    104. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is even if you were willing to pay $25 for a broom.. there are a lot of US companies which would be willing to sell you an "assembled in the USA" broom while outsourcing 90% of the work to China.

      Eveyone seems to forget the basic issue here. The Chinese are not the ones selling you stuff, US companies are buying from them, then turning around and resellling it to you and keeping the spreads.

      Name one chinese company you purchased something from.

    105. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Tough+Love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No... they were screwed, not by the tariffs but by an extremely weak and conditional business model.

      I will quote exactly, again. "The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent." But you are smarter than they are so you know they didn't say what they actually meant, right? Just trying to follow your tortured logic.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    106. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, CaseLabs is based in California. Probably THE most business-unfriendly state in the union. I wouldn't be surprised if their efforts to legislate businesses out of business didn't drastically impact their employee and insurance costs.

      No wonder CA is so far behind all the “business friendly” shithole states!

    107. Re: Look at all these jobs... by hdyoung · · Score: 1

      Nope. You're wrong. Simply, flat out, wrong. No relativism, or "what about this...". You're. Just. Wrong. The rest of the world has been following a set of free trade rules that WE (the USA) set up after WW2. News flash - when you get to write the rules of the game, you set them in your favor. The rest of the world went along because of the whole "we stand for democracy, oh and we won WW2". Let me state this again to make it totally clear to all you MAGA-I-hate-trade types. THEY have been following OUR rules for the past 75 years, and we've had it pretty good since then. Even with all the jobs and IP lost to China, Mexico and everywhere else. It's been OUR rules, and we've benefited from it. This is the system that you're trying to tear down.

      Do the rules cause us to lose some jobs? Yes. But here's the catch. For every 5 jobs that we lose because of trade, WE GAIN 7 JOBS. Guess what? 7 minus 5 equals 2, which means that we have MORE jobs in this country because of trade, NOT LESS. Way, way more. Tons of extra blue collar jobs because of trade.

      If the MAGA types get their way and we bomb out of a bunch of trade agreements, this process will simply reverse. 5 jobs might come home to the USA, but another 7 will evaporate. Again, basic math reveals that the overall effect is a LOSS of 2 jobs. Except this will happen a million times over (or more). And.... a lot of these lost jobs will be blue collar.

      You MAGA types simply. have. it. wrong. You've been given control of an economic system that you don't really understand, and there's a chance that you're going to screw it up. The ironic thing is this - the smart money and the skilled, educated workers will be fine regardless of what you do. They will move to where the jobs are, and re-invest their money somewhere else if necessary. I bet that you've never heard of something called "capital flight". Look it up if you actually care about keeping the USA prosperous. If this current hissy-fit of anti-trade actually turns into real policy, the rural blue collar types will suffer the most. They will be poorer and weaker because of policies that they, themselves, set into place. Of course, they will find some way to blame Obama and Clinton for it.

    108. Re: Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      They also stated that "default of a large account added greatly to the problem". Cash flow kills companies - and it looks like that is what happened here. After all, when you're a 3 person company with $15,000 in monthly revenue, a single $60K bad sale can break you. Bad.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    109. Re: Look at all these jobs... by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why is it OK for the EU to impose 6% tariffs on US car imports but the US can only impose 4% tariffs on car exports to the EU?

      You do know that there's a 25% import duty on light trucks, do you not? Oh, wait, you probably don't know, because Fox Propaganda didn't see fit to tell you.

      --
      Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
      Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    110. Re: Look at all these jobs... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep. Not very friendly at all. Imagine how much bigger it could be if the State was business-friendly? Many companies stay in spite of the business climate, because other intangibles are beneficial (like climate, for example).

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    111. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, it's not true. Tariffs can't have raised the price 80%, because the tariffs just aren't that high. They're between 10% and 25% depending on the commodity.

    112. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a spin on words. If there situation is anything like ours, our quality dropped to shit back when this tariff nonsense began. When we actually levied tariffs against China, is when shipments began getting stopped at customs. So not only are we having to order multiple times, deal with "customs" because it's not the suppliers problem anymore. This creates delays on our side which translates to lost customers and revenue, with the added increase in costs across the board? It is very easy to understand how OP is going out of business due to 80% rise in costs. We're blinking at the lights too. And if your business depends on China, you may be doing the same thing.

    113. Re: Look at all these jobs... by vix86 · · Score: 1, Troll

      Forget Trump. He will be gone in a few years.

      But the damage he's done to foreign relationships will last decades. It will be even harder for future presidents and future congresses to be able to work out deals with countries because everything will need to be put on the books as a law. Handshake agreements aren't worth anything now.

      And Obama raised tariffs on Aluminum during his first term and the move didn't seem to bother anyone.

      Unless you have a source for this, this seems like some Grade A BS. The only tariffs that I have been able to find that Obama implemented were tariffs on Tires and Solar Panels from China, Steel from South Korea, and beef tariffs from the EU. In many cases the Obama admin went through the process of bringing their grievances before the WTO and getting a general consensus among other countries that the US had been wronged and was in the right to impose some of these tariffs. The solar panel tariff is one case where Obama didn't do that and in fact China countered the tariff at the WTO later. Trump did none of this, he's waging a full out trade war by imposing tariffs across the board by claiming "national security" threats (so no WTO consensus). Nothing about this is an Apples to Apples comparison between what Obama did and what Trump did and the media/political backlash.

      The US is the only country that is expected to sacrifice anything and everything to placate the "international" community.

      You state this as if the US gained nothing from putting it self out there both in manpower and in financial power. The fact that we are involved in a lot situations (not just wars) means we have some sway in the politics at play, because at the end of the day we could take our ball and go home. Hypothetical example: The US wants to shift some foreign financial policy between the US and France but France has given the diplomatic middle finger. The US can go to Germany and put pressure on them to "encourage" France to see some reason in the situation, we can do that because we could decide not to keep some military bases in Germany or decide to wind down the troop presence in Germany which has an effect on local economics. Those changes in US-France policy could have an affect that allows US companies to operate more easily in France which means more US workers in France, which means more jobs to fill back in the US. Foreign policy is not a simple Zero-Sum game.

    114. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gawd, I loved that story!!!

    115. Re:Look at all these jobs... by terrycarlino · · Score: 1

      Harley Davidson opened a foreign plant and closed a U.S. one. The decision to do this was made at least a year before Trump took office, and is unrelated to tariffs, but don't let facts color your left wing talking points..

    116. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure it's, "fuck over the world until America looks great in comparison again".

    117. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the average age 13 on this site?

    118. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do something productive, like killing Putin.

    119. Re: Look at all these jobs... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

      Wait a minute, the Left despises the American working class. Remember the deplorables slur? Bitter clingers? Democrats got NAFTA passed. And to suddenly reverse and say the Left cares about the workers? This is some serious Orwell level "we have always been friends with Eurasia" moment here.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    120. Re: Look at all these jobs... by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me like Trump is actually doing the business community a favor by causing companies with dysfunctional business models to fail and allowing those with ones that actually work to thrive.

      Also kind of odd that they talk about costs going up 80% when the tariffs are mostly in the 25% ballpark. Because to me that has more than just a whiff of trying to cover their asses from (justified) investor and creditor lawsuits.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    121. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you're a sociapath, for real. I'd suggest getting help, but there's no cure.

      Good luck to your family.

    122. Re: Look at all these jobs... by glowworm · · Score: 0

      And the rest of the world seems to be a little slow on understanding just how much the US population doesn't give two shits about the "international" community.

      In fact, the rest of the world has long understood that the US population doesn't know what exists outside it's borders. "Oh, you are Austrian? Koalas are so cute!"

      --
      Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina
    123. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Approximately 3 people in this company. So not 100 - but 3. But hey, it's great grist to blame the tariff as causing a $178,000 annual revenue company failing (please ignore the fact that the "default of a large account added greatly to the problem").

      What do you call 3 ruined Americans?

      A good fucking start!

    124. Re: Look at all these jobs... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Wait a minute, the Left despises the American working class.

      No it doesn't. In fact, you do:

      Remember the deplorables slur?

      That's only a slur against the working class if you think voting for Trump is the preserve of the working classes. The "left2 couldn't despise the workers that hard if they tried.

      Left cares about the workers?

      Ah so that's why the Republicans are bith cutting healthcare and safety regulations. Because they love the workers so much.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    125. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1GX28D

      Yup aluminum extradition anti subsidy tariffs.. Took 3 minutes to find... Lazy as fuck... and the WTO reverse them

    126. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would just like to point out that, from my perspective and I hope many others, these "righteous protestors" you call them are not placing blame they are doing the responsible thing both morally and financially by using trumps failure with these tariffs to cut our losses. Better to remove the tumor that is trump than to allow him to have power for another ~2 years.

      Placing blame is a funny thing; since it seems you are willing to place blame on someone who no longer has the power and forgive the one still rolling around in it.

    127. Re: Look at all these jobs... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Not the first time a company's decision makers have been out of touch with the customers, especially old companies whose founders have long since passed.

    128. Re:Look at all these jobs... by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1

      I feel like somebody's been nibbling on my brain - can't come up with one right now.

    129. Re:Look at all these jobs... by aquacrayfish · · Score: 1
    130. Re:Look at all these jobs... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Who pays the tariff if the company stays in business? The persons/customers who buy the umbrellas.

      Interesting point, let's remember that consequence of tariffs.

      China has imposed a tariff on them and BMW is considering moving manufacturing to China with the result of job losses at their US plant.

      So BMW is still in business, China has imposed tariffs, but the customers aren't paying the tariff. Instead, the country imposing the tariffs is gaining direct foreign investment and creating new jobs in their economy.

    131. Re:Look at all these jobs... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      You have to factor in the increased tax revenue from the growing economy, so it's not just the money raised directly from tariffs. I just read a ridiculous article the other day that complained that the tax cuts are "more expensive" than forecast because the economy has grown and thus the tax cuts are larger in absolute terms. Of course that larger economy wouldn't have happened without the tax cuts, but let's not let reality get in the way of a feel good complaint.

      But I agree it's not going to match the tax cut, at least in the short term.

    132. Re: Look at all these jobs... by dwillden · · Score: 1

      And if the other party sees no reason to come to the negotiation table what then? Canada and Mexico had no interest in redoing NAFTA, now they do, and have agreed to negotiations.

      The EU had no interest in negotiating, but now they've agreed to eliminating or reducing some tariffs and negotiations on others. China is still playing tough, and still shows no interest in negotiating. So how to you bring a country that has no interest in negotiating cuts to their tariffs to the table?

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    133. Re: Look at all these jobs... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Even with China and other SE Asia countries who use slave level wages to create cheap exports the US is ranked #2 in the manufacturing competitiveness

      Implying that a culture of working yourself to death, overtime, and 2 weeks of holidays a year is somehow an improvement?

    134. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm 50, but thanks for the 'I'm a biased retard' alert.

      20 years ago was when they finally made a real (water cooled) engine that was mostly foreign, but as you point out the "Made In USA!!!!" has been bollocks for years.

    135. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Rhipf · · Score: 1

      If you are referring to this:

      China went to the WTO in 2012 to challenge U.S. anti-subsidy tariffs on Chinese exports including solar panels, wind towers, steel cylinders and aluminium extrusions.

      A tariff on steel cylinders and aluminum extrusions is a bit different than a general tariff on steel and aluminum.

      Another part of that article that is of interest is:

      The dispute centred on 17 investigations carried out by the U.S. Department of Commerce between 2007 and 2012.

      The products concerned were solar panels, wind towers, thermal and coated paper, tow-behind lawn groomers, kitchen shelving, steel sinks, citric acid, magnesia carbon bricks, pressure pipe, line pipe, seamless pipe, steel cylinders, drill pipe, oil country tubular goods, wire strand and aluminium extrusions.

      So again these tariffs were focused on specific items not a general tariff on steel and aluminum.

      Finally we have:

      The United States did not fully comply with a 2014 ruling against its anti-subsidy tariffs on a range of Chinese products, a World Trade Organization compliance panel said in a ruling on Wednesday (March 21, 2018) that either side can appeal within 20 days.

      and:

      The WTO panel agreed that the United States had not correctly used third country prices to assess the subsidies, but supported the U.S. assertion that exporters were getting subsidies from Chinese “public bodies”, despite Beijing’s assertions to the contrary.

      I don't see anywhere in the article that "the WTO reverse(d) them".

    136. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Rhipf · · Score: 1

      And if the other party sees no reason to come to the negotiation table what then? Canada and Mexico had no interest in redoing NAFTA, now they do, and have agreed to negotiations.

      You do realize that Mexico and Canada were in the process of renegotiating NAFTA before Trump implemented the tariffs? It is the US that is really not that interested in renegotiating NAFTA (Trump would prefer for NAFTA to be scrapped).

    137. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Not very friendly at all. Imagine how much bigger it could be if the State was business-friendly? Many companies stay in spite of the business climate, because other intangibles are beneficial (like climate, for example).

      IOW, CA has figured out what right wing cranks can not - there is more to economic prosperity than low taxes and weak regulation.

      As for being even bigger - CA is resource limited and already crowded, largely with economic and cultural refugees from “business friendly” places.

      But I love the argument - “Sure, California is kicking the ass of ‘business friendly’ states. But imagine how much harder they could be kicking ass if they adopted the losing strategy!”

    138. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Rhipf · · Score: 1

      The tariff is for 25% (steel) and 10% (aluminum). No this alone won't raise costs 80%. The problem is that:

      "The biggest importers of steel into America, by far, are U.S. steel companies," said New York-based steel analyst Chuck Bradford.

      That's in part because some of the biggest U.S. steel mills are nearly 80 years old and they aren't capable of making the specific types of steel that go into high-grade technology and aerospace products. U.S. mills mostly import what's known as "semi-finished" steel from places like Canada, Brazil, and Mexico and turn them into finished products they can resell.

      It's not as if the U.S. even has the capacity to fill its own need for steel and aluminum. Steel mills take several years to get permitted and built.

      https://www.cbc.ca/news/busine...

      So if you limit the import of steel and aluminum the supply will decrease and (as any econ 101 student will tell you) when supply goes down the price goes up. So the price of steel is 25% and aluminum is 10% higher just from the tariffs then they will increase more based on supply and demand. Does this actually account for an 80% increase in cost? I have no idea but it is as simple as saying that because the tariff is only 25% there is no way that costs for steel and aluminum products will only go up 25%.

    139. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excuse me. What planet are you on?

      GE retained domestic production of appliances in Louisville KY. The appliances produced there were high quality. or as good as they ever were. GE never got out of the appliance market. Jack Welsh did not end the appliance manufacture in Louisville. What planet are you on? Surely you knew this or could know this. The efforts in Louisville were both advertised by GE and mentioned in various publications. GE appliance manufacture was just sold to the Chinese last year so the future quality is unknown at this point, but the Chinese immediately reduced pay by over 30% to the workers in Louisville so it doesn't look good.

    140. Re: Look at all these jobs... by JakeBurn · · Score: 1

      Considering that NAFTA has allowed places like China to avoid tariffs by selling cheaply to Mexican or Canadian companies who then sell to the USA something needs to be done. These items aren't being modified they are just being passed through to screw the government and neither Mexico nor Canada is wanting to change NAFTA in a way that stops this from happening. Both of those governments have known that entities in their nations have been used as pawns to take advantage of the USA so I'm all for scrapping it until they agree to something that sets EQUAL terms for everyone involved.

    141. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't give a flying fuck where the stuff I've bought was made as long as it's good quality and affordable. You people put way to much value on "Murica" this and that.

      Bringing manufacturing jobs back is a dead end and at best a temporary boost (even that doesn't seem to be the case) robotics will replace those Chinese and Mexican people you hate so much as well as the supposed Americans that will get their jobs back. At the end of the day the money will still go to the ultra wealthy that your almighty Trump worships.

    142. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a lot of whataboutism. What has the American Left done for the American working class, other than spit all over them and their values? Can you think of an American flag they haven't set fire to? You remember during the 2016 election when PA, MI, WI were simply written off as hopeless idiots who were going to vote D no matter what, so fuck them? And then they betrayed their masters and voted Trump? Did we seriously forget this already?

    143. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There seems to be a difference between Trumpers and logical human beings; Trumpers claim to love America while doing everything in their power to actively hurt Americans, including cheering Trump on as he does so. The rest of us are honest enough with ourselves to be critical of America while doing everything we can to help lift up and protect Americans.

    144. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this drivel modded insightful? Shouldn't it be (Score:5, I agree politically)?

    145. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      I worked as a contractor in that Louisville plant right before the sale. I watched building 6 burn down.

      Their quality was crap...plain and simple, and it was neither the fault of the engineers or the factory workers. The engineers would design a product and put it through a year of testing. At the end of the process, accountants would shop the world and find the cheapest makers for each of the components. A 10 cent bearing was replaced by a 3 cent bearing. The only people receiving notoriety were the accountants who got their pictures on wall plaques.

      With horror, I watched the process happen.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    146. Re:Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are 100% correct. If you are in a hole there is no use trying to get out of it. Just dig deeper and fuck the future.

    147. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well I blame your mom for your pants-on-head retardation so there's that

    148. Re: Look at all these jobs... by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      After all, look at where Ivanka's stuff and MAGA hats are made. Yet somehow they aren't affected by the insane tariffs. Funny how that works.

    149. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Chas · · Score: 1

      There are many factors of course, but they told you a major one, are you calling that a lie?

      I'm saying that YES, the tariffs may have had an impact.
      But blaming it SOLELY on them is likely an evasion (and virtue signaling) at best.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    150. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Chas · · Score: 1

      Again, simply because they solely blame the tariffs doesn't mean that's the actual cause.
      A contributing factor, sure.

      But the fact that their business model was inelastic enough simply fall over because of this points to other issues as well

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    151. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Chas · · Score: 1

      Don't mistake a large economy with being business friendly.

      Numerous businesses out there are ONLY their due to proximity to core market presence by industry leaders. (One example is Silicon Valley. Another is Hollywood.)

      As such, these businesses look at the high price of having a business in California as a necessary evil.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    152. Re: Look at all these jobs... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      First you say "Forget Trump" and then you start spewing the exact propoganda that Trump is spewing.

      The fact of the matter is that the US has been haranguing it's allies for decades. NAFTA is a perfect example. That was a US led agreement, and the US got the lions share of the benefits from that. But now Trump is whining that it's an "unfair deal". Hell, here in Canada we are getting screwed over by that agreement, paying out god knows how many millions of dollars to US companies because our environmental laws get in the way of US profits.

      The only reason anyone demands that the US "sacrifices for the international community" is because the US is directly responsible for a huge swath of the problems around the world. And when there isn't a problem, US foreign policy makes one.

      So spare us the bullshit. Literally NO ONE outside the US is buying.

    153. Re:Look at all these jobs... by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      When Trump leaves office (willingly or otherwise), there is going to be a gigantic cleanup.
      All those dossiers items that were never looked at, because Trump had no interest in them.
      And then, to discover that the staff had a great ride on the backs of the tax payers, not because they wanted that ride, but because there was no game plan other that microscopic equality.
      Trump wants a dollar for dollar deal with China.
      Cut consider this
      China provides the USA steel at $2.00
      The USA uses that steel to make domestic and export products which they sell for profit, say $25.00
      China does not buy 2.00 of steel, but the USA has made $23.00 profit, and has employed many people along the way.

      The USA would benefit if the steel was a gift.
       

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    154. Re: Look at all these jobs... by houghi · · Score: 1

      get ready for the Chinese-made home appliances that have American brand names

      The thing is that quality id often so overpriced that lower quality is well worth it.

      e.g. if I buy a 10 USD wrench from a no-brand name as a home-user that I use perhaps 2 times per year and that I have to replace after 5 years, would it be wise for me to buy a 50 USD one that I buy only once (I hope).

      It used to be that quality was about twice as expensive as low quality. At that moment buying quality is a no brainer. When the prices differnce becomes 5 times, cheaper becomes a better alternative.

      Looking at that wrench, the home user will start buying cheaper stuff that is 'good enough'. That means that the high quality stuff is sold in lower quantities. This increases the price. So now even the hobbyist are looking for cheaper alternatives.
      That means even higher prices.

      The thing with tools what I have learned is (as you where talking about Craftsman) is to buy cheap and replace with expensive. This means that you will buy a lot of cheap tools and some expemsive ones. You will pay less and Craftsman wil have less revenue and thus less profit.

      And quality tools are still available. They might just not be US made, but EU made. Even some Vietnamese or South African made stuff is not bad at all.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    155. Re: Look at all these jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tp-link, ZTE, and Huawei.

    156. Re: Look at all these jobs... by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      "Make America Great Again"
      WTF, did anyone think America WASN'T great before the orange buffoon made a national disgrace out of Twitter?

    157. Re: Look at all these jobs... by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      And first prize for victim blaming goes to Ravenshrike! IT'S THEIR FAULT for having a shitty bizznizzz!!! REEEEE!!!!

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
  2. Horario Caine. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess you can say this case...is closed.

    YEAH!!!!!!!!

  3. It's due to commercial war between Trump and China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the "World War III": the global commercial war.

    The poor and rich people will be in the battle.

  4. Time to double down...Mr. President by bogaboga · · Score: 1

    "The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages), which cut deeply into our margins.

    I hope our president will reconsider his stance on tarrifs. Folks are struggling. It's rumored that a kinda distant neighbor has lost his house to foreclosure.

    On the other hand though, I won't be surprised if I hear of those asking the president to double down on tarrifs.

    1. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or, if China has such massive control over manufacturing that tarrifs on sheet metal kill companies, maybe it makes sense to boost the supply on our side?

    2. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That almost makes a lot of sense. So we should never do it.

    3. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Jzanu · · Score: 0, Troll

      Or, you know, you retards could try some data to make sure you know what the hell you're talking about. Read this for starters. The US imports most from Canada, not China. Then, learn about steel grades. Meeting demand requires sourcing, so buying steel of a certain type and quality from China or Canada isn't anything like a security risk. In fact, US steel production is so extensive it is 4th worldwide.

    4. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      Well the problem is, for metals, we went from a depressed priced market to a limited monopoly market. Out of the fryer and into the pan is what overnight "fixing" the market has done. The policy would have been better had the President actually allowed markets to naturally progress via small changes in policy over a course of several decades. But nah, let's just change course 180 right now deal with fall out later. All it will do is cause smaller players to exit, while larger players get an even tighter grip on the market. Prices will continue to rise and then consumers seeking relief will lobby Congress to open borders. You know, kind of the reason we got into the mess to begin with.

    5. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by beheaderaswp · · Score: 1

      Except... putting a tariff on Chinese metals creates a price floor which may raise the price across the market. After all- Chinese metals are no longer and option...

      Get it?

      --
      Another consultant who stuck it out.

      "We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
    6. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tried to access the nwitimes.com (propaganda?) link:

      451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

      We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact support@leetemplates.com or call 800-589-3331.

    7. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it really bad to cut out the actors that frequently undercut others at a loss to gain a market monopoly, then drive up prices? Think long term.

    8. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh fuck off. This company said their products were Made in America and lied.

    9. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China is cheaper because they have fewer regulations and can externalize costs like controlling pollution that the US and other companies more regularly have to internalize because of stricter controls on emissions from plant smoker stacks or water water and the like. This is gladly becoming less true, but is still very true at the moment.

    10. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by loonycyborg · · Score: 1

      Only outcome of natural progress of market would be move of all useful work to China since labor costs are cheaper there. Either that or equalize living costs in US and China, but nobody would actually let that happen. After all they'd prefer to have all costs higher in US just to show third world trash who is the boss, even though money is just abstraction and it results in weird situation when same amount of dollars can buy a lot better living in a "third world" country than in US.

    11. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. I live in a magnificent villa in a "developing world" country. And pay less rent than I paid on a tiny studio apartment in San Francisco. My new city is way safer and cleaner than SF, too.

    12. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all companies lie. all presidents lie. its the merkin dream.

    13. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      Who lied? the raising of Tariffs raises *Market* rates for *US made* steel as well.

      You know, basic Supply and Demand.

    14. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up you faggot shill INCEL deplorable uneducated cis-hetero gaylord trumptard Russian NAZI alt-right bolshevik anti-Semitic Zionist cock-gobbling fascist mansplaining fundamentalist SJW shitfucker MRA trailer trash inbred lesbian Hillaryist feminazi ghetto alt-left white supremacist PEDOPHILE wetback spic mick wop nlgger chink kike redneck bourgeois puritanical crackhead liberturdian commie TRAITOR!

    15. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure she loves you for who you are though.

    16. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear me, they'll hire anyone at Savushkina Street nowadays.

      "I don't know, Igor Dmitrievich, use your initiative - just look it up in the Thesaurus of Hate."

    17. Re: Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only outcome of natural progress of market would be move of all useful work to China since labor costs are cheaper there.

      How about slowly rolling out the tariffs? This year you make it 2%. Next year you make it 8%. In three years 16% and whatever value by the fourth? Sure, you don't get a tariff war with China, but you get what you want and you don't destroy internal business...

    18. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's rumored that a kinda distant neighbor has lost his house to foreclosure."

      WTF does that even mean? "It's rumored". LOL.

    19. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by Geek+On+The+Hill · · Score: 1

      I'm actually a free-trade guy who voted for Gary Johnson. But this announcement by CaseLabs stinks of bullshit to me. There simply isn't enough dollar value worth of steel (nor any raw material, for that matter) in their products that the tariffs would force them out of business. It might raise the price of a case by a couple of dollars (if that much), but that's about it.

      Frankly, I doubt there's more than $5.00 to $7.00 worth of raw material in an average computer case. Maybe $10.00 for a fancy one with lights and whistles. It seems impossible to me that a 25 percent tariff on materials would drive them into bankruptcy.

      I figure one of two things is happening:

      1. They could still stay in business if they wanted to, but their profit margin might shrink a bit; or

      2. The bad debt would have driven them into bankruptcy even without the tariffs, but they hate Trump and didn't want to miss an opportunity to blame him for their problems.

      I don't like tariffs. But I don't like bullshit, either; and this announcement reeks of it to me.

    20. Re:Time to double down...Mr. President by JakeBurn · · Score: 1

      So "folks" are having a problem not being able to import cheaply from nations that use next to slave labor and this is a problem for you? If a company can't compete in the USA without using these things they have a bad business model and bad ethics. Are you suggesting that this distant neighbor that you don't even know lost their house because of Chinese tariffs? I have to assume that's the logic train in your mind as foreclosures hit a 12 year low just last year and were already nearly 20% down in the first half of 2018. "Folks" aren't really struggling nearly as bad as they were just three years ago.

  5. no further need for heavy meatal boxen, HDDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    likely could fit most of our endless blather & FUDged digits in a couple of rooms now? take out the repetitive monotonistic propagandic bleachy clean mindphucking,.. & we could each have a copy on our key(block)chain?

  6. Oh no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sell out went BK. Poor fella.

  7. Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    FT company website:

    "We are very sad to announce that CaseLabs and its parent company will be closing permanently. We have been forced into bankruptcy and liquidation. The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80% (partly due to associated shortages), which cut deeply into our margins. The default of a large account added greatly to the problem. It hit us at the worst possible time. We reached out for a possible deal that would allow us to continue on and persevere through these difficult times, but in the end, it didn’t happen.

    1. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by giggleloop · · Score: 0

      It's likely that the default was due to another company going bankrupt... tariffs again maybe?

    2. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I had to guess, it was NCIX.

    3. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's likely that the default was due to another company going bankrupt... tariffs again maybe?

      They don't even have to be going bankrupt. All it takes is for there to have been enough disruption that they are willing to compromise quality in order to continue operation.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Retyping the summary gets modded insightful now?

      Thanks, Russian social media group!

    5. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      In other words a bad thing that they could normally have survived happened, but due to the tariffs on top they went bankrupt.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, you're a fucking shill. I've seen this line used verbatim elsewhere.

      It's clear this company was barely afloat to begin with if they're crashing only after two months of Tariff's. The Tariff's here aren't the problem, it's how the business was run. Had they been better at cutting costs, or getting sales, or even offering a product that more people wanted to buy, this wouldn't have been an issue for them.

      Instead what we have is a company virtue signaling to the anti-trump crowd, and shills like you further pushing the narrative.

    7. Re: Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck off you god damn Russian anti American traitor!

    8. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "They don't even have to be going bankrupt. All it takes is for there to have been enough disruption that they are willing to compromise quality in order to continue operation."

      And then they spend 25+ years trying to fix their public image and brand name, assuming they don't go out of business anyway within a year for becoming known as a trashy, poor quality, over priced producer of crap.

      But more to the point, they were already using cheap parts from China. They couldn't afford anything more expensive once those parts became more expensive than the alternatives thanks to Drumpf's tariffs. How the hell do you expect them to "reduce quality" to stay in business when there are no financially feasible parts available as is. As others have mentioned the profit margin on electronics and the like are extremely thin in the first place. That's why they're getting hit so quickly.

    9. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mebby the PC-case company should have used USA sheet-steel from the beginning. Make a better product, charge a batter price and pay a living wage to employees. If you pimp the tit don't expect free ass.

    10. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - OR -
      In other words tariffs that they could normally have survived happened, but due to a bad thing on top they went bankrupt.
      Accounting is hard, lots of things contribute to the economy of a company...

    11. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The apparent dirty secret was that their cases were actually 'made in China' with 'final assembly' (aka packaging) in the USA.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    12. Re:Not *just* due to tariffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can easily understand a 25% increase in a raw & unprocessed metal costs can be expected to raise costs of the product by a similar amount, and margins by maybe another 20%, but 80%? I admit I did not major in economics, so I might need some tutoring here. I do think its important we understand how this tariff "war" (better than shooting, I thought) can really hurt us. I don't want to be bamboozled, for instance, by some (like Harley, whose move to transfer their operations out of this country a year and more ago can be blamed on today's tariffs) or CEOs looking for excuses for their own failures, nor do I wish to be supporting tariffs if there is such a multiplier of true costs that CaseLabs seems to be experiencing.

  8. Can Someone Explain? by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Interesting

    U.S.-based PC case manufacturer

    The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages)

    Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products. And as for shortages, a PC case manufacturer needs thin sheet steel, paint, plastic, and LEDs. Don't tell me you cannot get sheet steel in America any longer? Also, the margins on cases should be astronomical, 5 lbs of steel and a few LEDs, an ounce of black paint and a few plastic parts probably take 5-8 dollars in material costs. The only problem in the industree should be that China can make them cheaper which can be solved with the appropriate tariffs.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Can Someone Explain? by narcc · · Score: 5, Informative

      The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products.

      In the same way that killing everyone smarter than you will make you the smartest person in the world.

      Tariffs don't make US products cheaper, they make foreign products more expensive.

    2. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They made their cases at over double the standard thickness of large case makers and most parts were custom build and cut. They were a small boutique shop, not some massive corporation so because they don't order in super large quantities probably excluded them from a lot of bulk discounts as well.

    3. Re:Can Someone Explain? by bartwol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1) Tariffs don't make American products cheaper...they make foreign products more costly (by adding taxes at import time).
      2) Yes, you _can_ get all those materials (steel, paint, plastic, LEDs) in the U.S., but at least some of them are available at a substantially lower cost from other countries (e.g. steel from China).
      3) The margins on almost all competitive consumer products in the U.S., including computer cases, are VERY thin no matter what kind of optimizations you try to make to the production process. That's what competitive markets do...offer consumers a variety of prices, qualities and relative values. Consumers pick their preferences, and all other things being equal (e.g. relatively similar computer cases), consumers will typically select the lower priced one.

      The short term effect of increased tariffs will be increased prices for the same goods you bought cheaper before the tariffs. The political and longer term effects are more uncertain, especially when you factor in the possibility that unfair players (like China with respect to intellectual property violations and government subsidies) will also hurt in the short run, and may improve their behaviors in the longer run. But you won't find many consumers who will prefer the fairly certain near-term increase in sticker prices [dripping with understatement].

    4. Re:Can Someone Explain? by jmccue · · Score: 1

      The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products.

      These days economies of many nations are integrated with each other that tariffs will hurt many industries.

      In the 1930s, when the great depression occurred many economists know/believe the tariffs imposed in the US made the depression much worse that it should have been. And that was well before "globalization"

    5. Re:Can Someone Explain? by JoeyRox · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products.

      This is a fallacy - when you impose tariffs on imports, domestic producers typically increase their prices, otherwise they'd be leaving money on the table.

    6. Re:Can Someone Explain? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      It's mainly the shortages, and not the tariffs. A 25% tariff won't create an 80% cost increase - other things do that, especially given the raw steel (which is what the tariff is based on, not finished goods) is a small percentage of the entire case. I do know that other things in China are way up, including boxes - about a 130% increase this year, making US-made boxes cheaper than those from China.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    7. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, amazing how many people don't get this.

      Local steel is $100, import is $80.

      Add tariffs...

      Local steel is $100, import is $120.

      You now buy the 'cheaper' local steel, meaning your production costs go up, leading to fewer sales; thus you close down and so do the steel makers. Good job, idiots.

      We figured this crap out in the 70's, just shows there are plenty of slow learners out there.

    8. Re:Can Someone Explain? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Also consider that the other countries are putting selective tariffs in place, targeting industries in specific states and districts, with an eye towards giving GOP lawmakers, who have thus far been largely unwilling to intervene in the trade wars, as much grief as possible.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re:Can Someone Explain? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      But probably still more expensive than Canada-made boxes.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    10. Re:Can Someone Explain? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products.

      No, they make foreign products more expensive than American products. And they make American products more expensive because they raise the price floor; without effective competition from overseas, American suppliers are free to raise their prices, and they do. The resulting profit is overwhelmingly kept by the upper echelons, as the worker's share of profit has been on a downward trend since the industrial revolution.

      And as for shortages, a PC case manufacturer needs thin sheet steel, paint, plastic, and LEDs.

      All of which have gone up in price because of tariffs, for the aforementioned reasons.

      Don't tell me you cannot get sheet steel in America any longer?

      You can, but the prices have gone up because of the aforementioned reasons.

      Also, the margins on cases should be astronomical, 5 lbs of steel and a few LEDs, an ounce of black paint and a few plastic parts probably take 5-8 dollars in material costs.

      MSRP "should be" approximately four times the cost of production for healthy profit. On the supplier's side that has to cover packing and shipping, for example. On the retailer's side it has to cover their overhead and still leave room for profit.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The 70s... you mean the decade when American heavy industry was gutted and the working class standard of living began its steep decline?

    12. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tools like a punch break and such are common manufacturing items. There are a TON of companies that make steel cases for everything from file cabinets to alarm boxes. The paper-thin sheet aluminum isn't that expensive. What is expensive is the machining and precision assembly... and the US is #1 when it comes to robotics, that isn't affected by a tariff. Plastic pieces are injection molded, and that tech is very common, very precise, and is done everywhere.

      This case builder was going out of business anyway, so they just are going political so they get some fame. Had they actually wanted to stay in business and actually matter as a company, they would have started making cases to fulfill various industrial needs, be it environments, high security, or other things.

    13. Re:Can Someone Explain? by pesho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      U.S.-based PC case manufacturer

      The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages)

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products.

      That seems to be the case if you don't think about it. As several comments pointed out tariffs are not making American products cheaper, they are making imports more expensive. By implementing tariffs you are chocking the supply, which allows the local suppliers to raise their prices. So instead of lowering the cost of American products, you are actually increasing it. This is econ 101 stuff.

      You can argue that this would incentivize US steel producers to open new plants and boost output. This is not happening (only one manufacturer activated a single furnace they already had) for several reason. Building a steel plant is a major investment that can only be justified if there is a long term strong demand. The plant also cannot stand on its own - you need supply of ore, coke (the fuel not the drink), qualified workforce, transport infrastructure, etc. As things stand now, none of these is in place and the potential clients are going out of business. So no, nobody is going to build a new steel plant anytime soon. Even if production ramps up, volume is not the only problem. There are a number of varieties of steel that are used in US. The user base for some of them does not justify production for the local market. These varieties become viable only of you have access to the world market, which you don't thanks to the tariffs

      The tariffs ignore the basic fact that in the 21st century the world economy is highly integrated. US may not produce much steel, but has a large number of thriving businesses that consume steel and other metals to make more lucrative products. Think cars and airplanes. If you are one of those manufacturers, your product now costs more to build and thanks to the retaliatory tariffs cost even more to export. To sell products that use steel outside of US you now need to move production abroad (that's what Harley Davidson is doing). Your alternative is to sell only to US customers. Either way you will employ fewer people in US. If you notice I am not even touching the effect retaliatory tariffs have on unrelated businesses such as farming. Taken together, in a futile attempt to protect a minor set of companies, the tariffs are destroying a large chunk of the economy.

    14. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to mention that the import is cheaper because China can shit all over their workers and the environment to produce the steel cheaply enough that they can sell it for less... even after shipping it halfway around the world.

    15. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Some close down, the rest keep going; selling the more expensive product. Some of those closing down are hired by the steel industry who need more manpower to deal with increasing production. Unemployment go down, people buy more 'stuff'.

      Tariffs will cause prices to increase, of course. But money that used to go to China is retained in-country. That helps the overall economy. Wealth no longer leak through a trade deficit. A company can produce cheaper by using imports. That doesn't work well if people are out of work and can't buy stuff. Or maybe they aren't unemployed, but got squeezed into lower-paying jobs every year.

      When looking at the economy for a country, you can't look at a small segment and say "these do better, so therefore it is better for all". Not if you get a lot of loosers at the same time. Products getting cheaper doesn't help if purchasing power dwindle at the same time. Similarly, products getting expensive isn't that bad if purchasing power go sufficiently up. In the very short term this doesn't happen, because it takes time for the steel industry to grow. But if it does, it works in the longer term.

    16. Re:Can Someone Explain? by scubamage · · Score: 0

      Because the current administration is run by freaking morons. The tariffs are against raw steel imports, not finished steel goods. So that means that US based companies that take raw steel and turn it into finished products now have to pay a much higher amount for raw materials. If you cut off foreign raw steel, now the price of domestic raw steel skyrockets due to demand. That's basic economics. Either way, those domestic companies face massive increases in costs and a loss of most of their margin. Oh, and because the tariffs only focus on raw steel, they now have to compete against international companies importing finished steel products who don't have to face those same tariffs. It's basically a policy assembled by people who have no freaking clue how economics work. But what else do you expect from a guy who literally destroys everything he touches, supported by people who don't understand that macroeconomics and microeconomics aren't the same thing.

    17. Re:Can Someone Explain? by scubamage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're forgetting one thing in your example - if foreign steel goes up to $120, that means there is now a massive run for domestic steel. That means domestic steel prices skyrocket due to demand - this is basic supply/demand curve stuff from economics class. So, the price will rise to that of the foreign steel, or even higher. So, if you make finished steel goods, no matter what, you pay a much higher price, and domestic companies get screwed.

    18. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, those 70's.

      What caused it and what fixed it? (I think I've found one of those slow learners.)

    19. Re:Can Someone Explain? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1
      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    20. Re:Can Someone Explain? by koomba · · Score: 1

      They also used aluminum mostly IIRC, not steel for most of their cases. As you said they were a small boutique manufacturer, and a high end one at that, most cases at least in the $200-500 range.

    21. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain?

      Due to some strange, unexpected quirk, steps taken to protect the nation's industries somehow didn't manage to deliver the immediate results that certain idiots - *cough* shills *cough* - were pretending to expect.

    22. Re:Can Someone Explain? by loonycyborg · · Score: 2

      Also domestic output might not be high enough and everyone will have to pay 120$ and import anyway before domestic producers have time scale up.

    23. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would there be a run on steel?

      From the manufacturers point of view the price of steel just went up from $80 to $100. Why would I buy more when the price increases?

    24. Re:Can Someone Explain? by theycallmeB · · Score: 1

      Others have pointed out that tariffs only make foreign products more expensive and do nothing to make American products cheaper. In fact, the US tariffs as implemented are almost surgically designed to put US manufacturers at a disadvantage since so many of the tariffs are being applied to components, like steel and electric motors, that are used to build consumer and industrial goods and to final goods like finished computer cases.

      So a company like this gets hurt by import taxes increasing costs for their materials while their foreign competition does not face that tax, or a tax on their final product, and even see lower material costs as their local suppliers export less to the US.

      Even for the chosen 'protected' industries there has been very little increase in production or investment, just a huge increase in profits. That you and I get to pay for. And that are nearly tax-free, which you and I also get to pay for.

    25. Re:Can Someone Explain? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Also, the margins on cases should be astronomical, 5 lbs of steel and a few LEDs, an ounce of black paint and a few plastic parts probably take 5-8 dollars in material costs. The only problem in the industree should be that China can make them cheaper which can be solved with the appropriate tariffs.

      I would say if you know how to make cases that cheaply you ought to go into business. Yo'd have half the cost and twice the margin of everyone else. It costs much more to produce the case than the raw BoM cost.

      You've got to actually manufacture the thing for a start.

      You then have to amortise the cost of design and any capital costs over the expected number of units produced.

      And that company ain't going to run itself even when the design is done. You need people to do all that stuff and deal with marketing, sales, order fulfilment, supply chain managemant, quality control, regulatory compliance and so on and all the ancilliary things like accounting, personell, and so on and so forth.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    26. Re:Can Someone Explain? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      But that should only mean that they should not of been affected very much at all.

      They sold expensive cases made by hand. Meaning labour was 80-90% of the total cost. And if I wanted, I could order 10 tons of sheet aluminum right this minute, and have it shipped to me right now. I would probably have to pay shitloads of tariffs, because that is how it always works in Canada, but it would still be a tiny fraction of what I sold the cases for. Just this month I ordered 55lbs of cocoa and a couple hundred feet of 4-4-4 aluminum wire from the states. I pay 45%-100% more than someone who is an American for the stuff but it is still reasonable, and business is on average doing well in Ontario (the biggest downside is our horrible electricity provider).

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    27. Re:Can Someone Explain? by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      offer consumers a variety of prices, qualities and relative values.

      Yes, and but many companies offer luxury goods. And the cost to produce luxury goods never scales identically with the price. Case Labs sold luxury cases, and I guarantee that it did not cost them $450 to produce the cases they sold for $500.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    28. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can someone explain?

      Sure.

      * When management outsources IT services to a cheaper country and Turmp stops it some of Slashdot cheers because it protects their jobs.
      * When management outsources manufacturing to a cheaper country and Trump stops it some of Slashdot jeers because it adds 10% to the cost of discretionary consumer products.

    29. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jimmy Carter

    30. Re:Can Someone Explain? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      You don't need to remind me. Everything sold by U.S.A. companies keeps increasing in price.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    31. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      > killing everyone smarter than you will make you the smartest person in the world

      Don't give Trump any ideas, we don't need 99% of humanity, and most of the smarter dogs killed.

    32. Re:Can Someone Explain? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      The Canadian Peso keeps getting weaker...:(

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    33. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was caused by public policy. It was not fixed, not was any serious attempt made to fix it. Under Bushbama rate of decline in working class living standards increased substantially.

      President Trump is trying to end this 40+ year economic catastrophe by changing the public policies that caused it. He is being opposed at every turn by the oligarchy and their running dogs.

    34. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products

      I can explain. You conflate "raw material" with "manufactured product". Intentional, or are you really that thick?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    35. Re:Can Someone Explain? by gordguide · · Score: 3, Informative

      U.S.-based PC case manufacturer

      The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages)

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products. And as for shortages, a PC case manufacturer needs thin sheet steel, paint, plastic, and LEDs. Don't tell me you cannot get sheet steel in America any longer? Also, the margins on cases should be astronomical, 5 lbs of steel and a few LEDs, an ounce of black paint and a few plastic parts probably take 5-8 dollars in material costs. The only problem in the industry should be that China can make them cheaper which can be solved with the appropriate tariffs.

      Probably the effect of the tariffs being "recent".

      This causes disruption in the supply chain, as any predictable price adjustment would. What importers do is make large orders based on expected mid-term demand, in contrast to their usual (what business school teaches these days) on-demand or "just-in-time" parts inventory practice. This can stress the financials of the importer, as they have new, unplanned costs (large order financing, new inventory & storage costs, delayed return on investment ... parts will be in inventory, paid for, for a longer period of time before they can recover the cost through sales, versus "normal" import volumes ).

      Or Not. It may also be that downstream wholesale buyers will have upped their orders from the importer, eliminating the long term storage and cost recovery period issues but possibly causing shortages (cannot fill all orders completely) amongst businesses that are ultimately competitors. Prices may rise (as they always do to reflect higher demand than supply) out of proportion to the increased import cost. If you have unfilled orders and the price of a part in shortage has risen 400% (even though the tariff might have only increased cost to the importer by 10%) ... what do you do? Allow the buyer to cancel the order and hit your annual bottom line, or pay the 400% and ship the product, possibly at a loss, to keep people working and customers happy?

      I would imaging the parts the OP's firm is referring to as increasing product cost would be power supplies typically included with case orders. (Just a guess, I've never looked at their site but if they don't offer PS upgrades, maybe they did deserve to go bankrupt, or at least should have read a book on marketing and business theory). Maybe they also included the option to add things like HDDs or SSDs at competitive prices, which would be dangerously narrow margins.

      Regardless, those are all items not manufactured in the USA, so would have to be imported from somewhere; typically Asia as the costs to fill a Bill Of Materials (BoM) for electronics in Asia is significantly lower than in North America. It's even cheaper to buy electronic components in Australia than North America due to it's proximity to the manufacturing sites, not all of which are in China.

      Oz (and New Zealand) have surprisingly robust electronics manufacturing industries, despite their first-world economies and small population sizes. Compare that with Mexico, which has comparable labour costs to China ... where is the cheap electronics assembly industry there? Doesn't exist at anywhere near the scale of Asia so obviously there are factors other than labour costs at play in that industry.

      There are lots of challenges when a disruptive element enters business planning. Some of it is unpredictable and some of it carries unintended consequences. This is always the case, there is nothing particularly unique about new tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods in that respect. One day we can expect the tariffs will fall or be eliminated (either that, or there is a Hidden Agenda since tariff reduction is the carrot dangled to China should it change wha

    36. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      it would still be a tiny fraction of what I sold the cases for

      They state that tariffs played a major role, do you think they are wrong? They elaborated about shortages and costs up by 80%. Good luck with that, and hope that nothing else goes wrong. Um.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    37. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      A 25% tariff won't create an 80% cost increase.

      But it did, they said so. You can call them liars if you like. You can claim you understand their business better than they do. Good luck with that.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    38. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      the current administration is run by freaking morons

      Are they really morons, if they are successfully transferring wealth from your pocket to theirs? I can think of other words, but moron is not the first one that comes to mind. Ok, moron does comes to mind, but before that comes thug.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    39. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So China is attempting to influence domestic politics - and you're in favor of that.

      But muh Rooskies!!!1!!

    40. Re: Can Someone Explain? by gordguide · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention that the import is cheaper because China can shit all over their workers and the environment to produce the steel cheaply enough that they can sell it for less... even after shipping it halfway around the world.

      Making steel is not "cheap" no matter where you make it. Employee wages, in the grand scheme of things, do not demonstrably affect the cost to the end user. Shipping is the greatest cost, raw materials next, and capital investment overshadow both of those. Occupational Health and Safety has both costs and benefits to a company; it is not simply a net outflow of cash, despite what some might suggest. A clean environment is a near necessity when unemployment is low and with very low barriers to employee mobility in the US, workers can choose simply to move to a nicer city and now you can't support full production. As heavy industry goes, steel mills are not particularly pollutive anyway.

      That is why large international steel companies, such as Russia-based EVRAZ own steel pipe manufacturing plants in Regina SK Canada (a city with almost no heavy industry; without the steel plant and an oil refinery, none) and Pueblo, Colorado USA because of their proximity to the Oil Patch, even though they could import Russian made pipe if they wanted, which would enjoy most of the advantages you claim represent the difference between North American and non-G7 economy pipe.

      The cost of building a corporate head office building and land is higher in San Francisco than in Great Falls, MT, and the cost of an acre of farmland in eastern California is higher than an acre outside of Great Falls MT not because the land or building itself is any different, but because the external forces surrounding that land and building differ. Employees with "good jobs" in each city (say, the people who would construct such buildings) can buy similar amounts of goods and services with their after-tax disposable income (after rents, other fixed costs) even though the actual wages may differ.

      None of those things will change unless you change the local external forces that govern them, and those forces are notoriously stubborn and carry remarkable inertia ... governments worldwide have been trying, mostly un-successfully, to turn their Great Falls into San Franciscos for centuries, because when you have a higher cost economy it matters little locally, but you gain a huge wealth advantage versus the Great Falls of the world. Which allows you to do things like import their cheap products and allows them to do things like make more products than they can sell locally.

    41. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not about how much steel YOU are buying. The supply of steel at $100 is going to be much smaller if only the domestic vendors can sell at that price, and EVERYONE is going to be trying to buy from them at that price, including all of the manufacturers that were buying steel from overseas. That's where the run comes from.

      The scary part is that there are some people that this has to be explained to, and a lot of them are the ones supporting Trump's tariff policy at the grassroots level.

    42. Re:Can Someone Explain? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      2) Yes, you _can_ get all those materials (steel, paint, plastic, LEDs) in the U.S., but at least some of them are available at a substantially lower cost from other countries (e.g. steel from China).

      And some aren't available at all. The popular WS8212 and APA101 RGB LEDs don't have a comparable US-made product that I'm aware of.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    43. Re:Can Someone Explain? by gordguide · · Score: 1

      offer consumers a variety of prices, qualities and relative values.

      Yes, and but many companies offer luxury goods. And the cost to produce luxury goods never scales identically with the price. Case Labs sold luxury cases, and I guarantee that it did not cost them $450 to produce the cases they sold for $500.

      Yes I think you could guarantee that. But not because of the reason you implied.

      They could have been making commodity cases, selling for $50, and I guarantee that it would not cost $45 to manufacture one. Maybe $25, maybe $33, but almost certainly no more than that for a $50 product. So their "$450" cost would probably have been closer to $250.

      If they were priced similarly to typical "luxury" goods (automobiles excepted, jewelry and clothing included) their cost would be more on the order of $160 for a $500 item.

    44. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products.

      First, it makes the American *steel* cheaper than the Chinese steel--for everyone who uses the steel to make stuff their expenses just plain go up. Second, if the American steel makers suddenly find that their product is less expensive than Chinese steel, that gives them room to raise prices, making things more expensive yet for steel users. And finally, there just isn't that much American steel. Yes, they're looking to increase production as a result of all of this, but in the meantime there's generally less supply than demand, which also increases prices, not to mention wreaking havoc with supply chains.

    45. Re:Can Someone Explain? by gordguide · · Score: 1

      But probably still more expensive than Canada-made boxes.

      I'm not sure what motivated this comment, but Canada makes very inexpensive paper products because ... well ... we have the trees, and cheap electricity (not counting the incompetent idiots running Ontario ... you HAD cheap electricity but bungled and squandered that advantage all by yourselves) for the pulp mills and paper mills.

      The US actually applies tariffs to Canadian paper products not because of unfair trade practices (the tariffs are routinely deemed invalid by the usual appeal processes, whereupon the US withdraws that one and a new one is imposed ... this has been going on for 50 years) but because all forestry in America is owned by small lot owners who simply hold out for higher timber rights prices. In Canada private landowners have to court forestry companies to cut their timber as the supply is virtually limitless. Public land is sold at prices commensurate with the private land rights prices, which the US claims represents a subsidy.

      At least paper products are made from re-forrested land so quality is similar between Canadian and US made product. Not so with timber, where there is virtually no old-growth sources in America with some western states possessing the last stocks, on private land, with rights at high prices. In Canada there is still better than what-was-in-1800's-America levels of old-growth forest. Compounded with the Asian insect invasion of the last 30 years which has killed vast areas of the western Canadian forest canopy. That timber can sit for perhaps 10 years before it deteriorates and cannot be harvested, so there is tremendous pressure to harvest it all very quickly right now.

      New-growth timber is less dense, partly because it's younger, like all trees would be, and partly because forestry companies prefer fast-growing species to re-forest the cut old growth timber species. That's fine, for most things, but some parts of a house require the strength and density of old-growth forest timber. Because the US cannot possibly harvest enough of this timber to meet demand for the US housing industry, they must import some from Canada. The tariffs on timber from Canada are simple price supports for US timber, both new-growth and old-growth. Given their druthers, builders would make entire homes out of old-growth timber, which the US doesn't really have much of. Thus the tariffs which are simply there to support an industry that has lost it's natural advantage and cannot get it back. Canada allows unlimited tariff-free imports of US lumber and pulp / paper products.

      Although Canada would prefer to sell it's old-growth timber to the US, the Japanese and Asians (including China) are eager to buy what America won't, so the industry is doing fine, and lumber is cheaper in Canada than in America so our home construction costs are lower by probably about $10,000 per 1000 ft2.

    46. Re:Can Someone Explain? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And some aren't available at all. The popular WS8212 and APA101 RGB LEDs don't have a comparable US-made product that I'm aware of.

      This is way offtopic but I haven't found a good answer to this question, so... do you know which RGB LEDs flicker less than WS2812[B]? It doesn't bother me but my lady is sensitive to such things and the WS2812s hurt her eyes and head, so I'm looking for something with higher-frequency PWM. The PWM rate is literally the most important thing to me, more than how many wires, or how much power, or how many lumens.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    47. Re:Can Someone Explain? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Go with the APA101/102. It's a better product in pretty much every way than the WS2812. Global brightness only runs at about 580 Hz, but the individual RGB values are set at 19.2 KHz, so it's quite easy to get a flicker-free experience with them if you set global brightness to full. On top of that, because they use synchronous 2-wire SPI, they don't have the sensitive timing requirements of the WS, so you can run them from a Raspberry Pi or other system where you can't guarantee solid timing.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    48. Re: Can Someone Explain? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      President Trump is trying to end this 40+ year economic catastrophe by changing the public policies that caused it.

      Everything he's done so far has actually destroyed jobs. Tell us again how that's going to solve the problem.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    49. Re:Can Someone Explain? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How do the APAs compare to the 5050s? 5050s are also claimed to have much faster refresh and update rates, and they are quite a bit cheaper. I'll go with the APAs if I have to, but I wouldn't mind saving the money.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    50. Re: Can Someone Explain? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      That's the nature of tariffs, to influence a foreign government. By their nature, of course, tariffs are not covert. Quite the opposite, they are loudly and proudly pronounced.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    51. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two things:

      1: the tariffs probably had nothing to do with this particular bankruptcy, but it's a nice opportunity for a [California, so probably democrat-run] business to blame their own failure on The Great Satan, but, more interestingly,

      2: the tariffs have caused some considerable short-term supply disruptions. In advance of the tariffs going into effect, everybody was getting every deal done they could, and delivering every ton of steel that could find a hull to carry it across the sea. Because the negotiations to end the tariffs are still ongoing, and they could end any day, nobody wants to commit to paying the 25% tariff now and import a bunch of steel only to have prices crash next week when the tariffs go away. The result is that there are large container ships just off both Chinese and American shores in a holding pattern waiting to see what happens. Meanwhile, it takes a long time for a shuttered domestic plant to come online. Also, meanwhile, everybody knew the tariffs were coming, so lots of companies that depend on steel and had free capital started hoarding the stuff. The result is that, in the very short term, steel is suddenly super hard to come by at anything but extortionary prices.

      Eventually, even if the tariffs remain, steel prices will come back down and steel will be available. It'll cost about 25% more than it did before (that's the tariff), but these huge 80% and 100% increases will all disappear in a few weeks or maybe a few months.

    52. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no way a 20% increase shut them down. Tarriffs will be the new synonym for BAD MANAGEMENT.

      Its a sheet of steel. Going from $30 to $36 a sheet would add about $2 to each case (figure 2-4 cases stamped from a 4x8 sheet).

    53. Re:Can Someone Explain? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Hmm, that seems to have been a dumb question... APA102 says it has or is a 5050... so why are there products which say they're 5050 but not APA102 and which are much cheaper? I'm more confused than ever.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    54. Re:Can Someone Explain? by suutar · · Score: 1

      It can result in indirect increases larger than the tariff itself. Perhaps they used to have a discount but now that the tariff on Chinese metal is increasing demand for US metal they can't keep it... and the US metal's price is going up to match the Chinese metal's price, so they get hit with two increases at once.

    55. Re:Can Someone Explain? by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      To my ears it just sounds like they're blaming whatever they can to take the blame off themselves so that this doesn't tarnish their personal reputations or give a reason for investors and creditors to sue them. In the Financial Times article they also talk about how a major account defaulting was a major contributing factor to their bankruptcy and I have a feeling it added more to their woes than the tariffs did. I'm also having a hard time believing the tariffs, which to my knowledge are mostly in the 25% ballpark, could have possibly caused an 80% increase in costs.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    56. Re:Can Someone Explain? by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that the effects to the consumer are just collateral damage to what amounts to something intended to hurt countries and blocks on the macro level in an effort to make them willing to re-negotiate preexisting trade deals in the U.S' favor. If there's anything Trump demonstrated with his wall, it's that he can hold onto unpopular things as long as his base supports them. As for the "hurt" his tariffs may be causing, the Chinese stock exchange did lose it's position as the biggest stock exchange in Asia, a position it gained from the Japanese one back in 2014, the week before last.

      Don't get me wrong, while I can see the idea behind the tariffs, I'm not ignorant to how people like Macron and Junker have made public statements where they clearly articulate they see can see through this and will not be brought to the negotiating table by this.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    57. Re:Can Someone Explain? by suutar · · Score: 1

      I think you're underestimating. Looking at one of Case Labs' smaller cases (the Bullet BH2 mITX) at 10x9.5x13. It uses 0.09" thick aluminum for the sides, top, and bottom (about 507 in^2), and 0.063" for the front and back (about 190 in^2). 0.09" thick in an alloy that's not too expensive (not aircraft grade, for example) seems to come out to 4.5 cents per square inch in the larger sizes, so the sides/top/bottom are about 22.80 by themselves. 0.063 is more like 3.14 cents per in^2, so front and back panels are just under 6 bucks. They'll likely get a bit more of a discount for bulk, but they also have to have metal for drive carriers, motherboard mounts, electronics, and those prices are for just the metal, not shipping, so all in all it probably really does work out to around 30+ per case or more for materials. Now, this is some pretty hefty metal for cases, but that's their niche, and they charge about 200 for this size.

      Making the same thing entirely out of 0.036 (20 gauge) cold rolled sheet steel would still be 13.50 plus electronics, innards, shipping, etc but I'm not sure that material's even suitable for anything but the top/sides, that don't need much if any real structural strength. Probably need internal bracing, which will add a bit.

      I thank you for causing me to do this research. I now see why it's hard to find any case for under 50ish and any solid one for under 90 :)

    58. Re:Can Someone Explain? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain? The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products. And as for shortages, a PC case manufacturer needs thin sheet steel, paint, plastic, and LEDs. Don't tell me you cannot get sheet steel in America any longer? Also, the margins on cases should be astronomical, 5 lbs of steel and a few LEDs, an ounce of black paint and a few plastic parts probably take 5-8 dollars in material costs. The only problem in the industree should be that China can make them cheaper which can be solved with the appropriate tariffs.

      No. The tariffs on steel and aluminum do not help manufacturers. They only help steel and aluminum producers.

      That's why people hate tariffs - it's a form of industry picking.

      The tariffs make foreign steel and aluminum 20% more expensive. BUT, this does not mean US steel and aluminum is cheaper! If the imported stuff is 20% more expensive, you know what happens? The locals will make their stuff more expensive!

      Think of it this way - you make a widget for $100 (say it costs you $80 to make). Because of foreign imports of the same widget, they can sell for $90. You can sell for $90 to compete. But how, there's a 20% tariff on them so their widgets cost $108 ($90 + $18 20% tariff). You as a businessman have a choice - sell your widget for $90 (make $10), sell it for $100 (make $20), or sell it for $108 and make $28. There's no reason to sell for $90, or even $100. You'd sell it for $108 because the government just gave you a gift of more profit.

      People who buy your widget as a base of their product used to buy it for $90. Now they're forced to buy it for $108. Local industry is making more profit because why not - their stuff costs more so you can raise your prices, so sucks for everyone else.

      So US steel and aluminum makers are happy - they get to charge 20% more for their product. Consumers of steel and aluminum are screwed, because their raw material costs just went up.

      The final problem is companies the stupid and fat off the bigger profit, but they also get less competitive - if the tariffs are removed, there is no way they can compete. The rest of the world got more efficient and now your industry is real trouble because instead of investing those extra profits they grew fat lazy and stupid and noncompetitive. Meanwhile, industries dependent on those materials would likely have moved elsewhere where they can make their product more competitively because they still need to compete on a world stage.

      If tariffs worked, the Great Depression wouldn't have been such a big thing. History is right there. Of course, the problem is the steel and aluminum unions are fairly powerful, sucks to be a company needing to actually build stuff from the now more expensive steel and aluminum.

      As for PC cases, the raw materials are really cheap, but the manufacturing is not. CaseLabs makes custom cases so in general they aren't mass manufactured items (which you can use jigs and other things to reduce manufacturing costs). You give them CAD designs and assembly instructions and they will do the necessary hole cutting, nesting, bending, folding, deburring, threading, and other things and out pops a case. They're really nice cases too. And painting is an art - priming, sanding, painting, clearcoating, etc.

      Even the switches and LEDs still require a technician to solder them together, something most companies subcontract to China because the cost is so much lower to have them mass produce 10,000 switches with a header plug solder than do it in the US. You can do it in the US, but the cost is higher. (And it's better you use those technicians for more interesting case making work than dull soldering jobs).

    59. Re:Can Someone Explain? by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      "5050" refers to the size of the package, which in this case is 5.0x5.0 mm. It has no bearing on the LED functionality itself (except possibly for brightness), and even single-color SMT LEDs are available in the 5050 size.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    60. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean is flat.

    61. Re:Can Someone Explain? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I had figured out that it had to do with something other than driver, but that's it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    62. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's not what happens either.

      The foreign steel is sold at $120, but the domestic steel then goes up to $140, as they have already established that local companies will pay $20 more than the imported material.

    63. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's why the tariff on aluminum is confusing: the best aluminum produced in the US is recycled stuff, we don't have the bauxite deposits near hydropower you need to make good aluminum for cheap.

    64. Re:Can Someone Explain? by houghi · · Score: 1

      Concerning the IP that China has, that is better than the "till eternity + 70 years" on copyright that the rest of the world has.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    65. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. The explanation seems ridiculous on the face of it. The price of the cases makes it obvious that the price of steel would have little impact on the company. I suspect the large cancelled order left them holding the bag and THAT CAN sink a small business. The tariff thing is just publicity seeking. After all, small US company screws up and folds is hardly headline material.

    66. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's your authority on the margins? Here listen. BULLSHIT. There I called it. You are making stuff up. 200 bucks for a small steel case without power supply? If margins are thin then there is profit shifting, padding or gross inadequacy involved. I suspect gross inadequacy. These guys were likely very small and using hand methods rather than mass manufacture. Boutique production of hobbyists more than industrial production. That would explain the prices. In which case this is not really that much of a story. Besides, do you thing a 25 percent rise in steel caused the demise or that this company had a large order that backed out? It was the order snafu. Easy way to kill a company intentionally. Mistake for a company to get excited about a large order and neglect to protect themselves by structuring payment and deliveries so they aren't made suckers. Microsoft intentionally put stars in the eyes of small companies only to back out of deals after the company exhausted their resources to fill a Microsoft order. Microsoft then made a company buy offer at a ridiculously low price. They did this repeatedly.

      More interesting is the question of who backed out and ended this company and how large ws the order. I suspect Caselabs was teetering on the brink anyway.

    67. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand how you can be so stupid. Tarriffs are not covert, they are not hiding anything they are punishing us like we are punishing them but with more surgical precision.

    68. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tariffs don't ignore anything. You simply choose to ignore that the tariffs are not intended to be permanent. The tariffs are the temporary measure to promote free trade. So if China relents and agrees to actual free trade then the tariffs did their job. If China does not relent then we didn't have free trade, the tariffs stand and we can begin to produce steel without the uncertainty of China's decisions.

      WW2 was never supposed to happen because the UK and German economies were so highly integrated. The highly integrated argument is just a weakness of the mind to fathom change. It can all change in a day and the adjustment of economies to that change does not have to result in ruination. China is an example of this.

      Your assertions are founded on bullshit. You intentionally refuse to be honest and admit that the tariffs are STATED to be temporary in order to enact actual free trade relations. You ignore those facts and choose to misrepresent the intentions of the US government. The US government is the singular historical champion of free trade. Misrepresenting the US efforts is highly abusive and offensive. It ignores the basic fact of who actually promotes the values you act like you consider to be good. I question your allegiance. I question your motives.

    69. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two things,
      1: this post had nothing to do with tariffs, but it's a nice opportunity for a [Republican, so probably pro trump] to blame his lack of understanding of basic economics on The Great Socialist Satan, but, more interestingly,

      2: This is where I will ramble on about things I know nothing about, show my lack of education, and predicate the future based on both.

    70. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's at least 62,984,828 slow learners out there.

    71. Re:Can Someone Explain? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      ARCO. But don't let facts get in your way.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    72. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to be informed, but the disambiguation on Wikipedia for "ARCO" didn't seem to have much to do with aluminum, bauxite, or hydropower.

    73. Re:Can Someone Explain? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If you read between the lines, they apparently were making the punched out parts for their cases in China and only doing final assembly in the USA.

      Even if the punch presses were in the USA (which I doubt, OSHA hates punch presses), the tooling was made in China. Almost certainly, the injection molds too, if they weren't just using commodity parts..

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    74. Re: Can Someone Explain? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      All he has done is destroy jobs, and yet we have record unemployment? Hmmm?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    75. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Also, this is a tariff...a 'tax' by any other name.

      Until we decided that we should bleed our economy to help Europe in their wars, tariffs were the way the federal government was financed. We may be paying higher prices for goods, but at least it is going to reduce our deficits.

      Re: Deficits actually reducing...yeah, I've been sniffing unicorn farts. But, one can hope, can't he?

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    76. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      I don't think they're wrong. I think they're lying. That's a different thing.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    77. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. Thanks to Trump's overinflated ego, he probably already thinks he is the smartest man in the world.

    78. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Case Labs sold luxury cases, and I guarantee that it did not cost them $450 to produce the cases they sold for $500.

      If they were operating with a 10% profit margin they wouldn't be going out of business... idiot.

    79. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most likely they were locally assembling parts imported from China.

    80. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fake news. You are presuming that the supply of domestic steel is static (it isn't; shuttered factories are opening back up) and that domestic suppliers aren't going to compete with each other.

      You also aren't considering, long-term, why Chinese steel is cheaper than US steel and what the long-term downside of that is.

    81. Re:Can Someone Explain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is not happening (only one manufacturer activated a single furnace they already had) for several reason.

      Bullshit, mate. Several large-scale producers are re-opening; it is taking a little time but we're talking months, not years. Georgetown SC has been shuttered for YEARS and is now coming back on line.

  9. Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages)

    The ten percent aluminum tariff causes prices to spike eighty percent? Sounds like CaseLabs' suppliers ripped them off.

    The default of a large account added greatly to the problem... We reached out for a possible deal that would allow us to continue on and persevere through these difficult times, but in the end, it didn't happen.

    So, CaseLabs got ripped off by a client. This was a business failure, not a tariff problem. That's confirmed by the company's failure to secure financing to continue: even the bank knew that the owners sucked at running a business.

    They made overpriced cases (seriously, $600 for a case?) and ran their business badly. They failed.

    1. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even making cases in the USA, how could you not turn a profit at $600?

    2. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's likely suppliers are ripping everyone off. They'll bump up prices to just south of what the tariffs are pricing foreign imports at, simply because the government has picked them as the winners. You don't actually think that suppliers are nice guys who actually want to help out their fellow American businesses, do you?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They made overpriced cases (seriously, $600 for a case?) and ran their business badly. They failed.

          You left out the last step: Then they blamed it on Trump.

    4. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $600? That's crazy. For that price, design exactly what you want at Protocase. Yes, they are Canadian but at least it's North America.

    5. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. Trump has done all everything possible to help them. He cut the taxes. He made health care cheaper and way better. He put punitive taxes on unfarely subsidised foreign materials and products. He helped bust unions. He eliminated all the red tape and bullshit lies about the environment from the EPA. And yet here is what the SJW nutters do, they blame HIM for there own failure. The people who run case logic are un-American and deserve to be out of business. If they keep unfairely complaning against Trump, they should be locked up.

    6. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      their business badly. They failed. You left out the last step: Then they blamed it on Trump.

      How unfair. The raised prices can't affect anyone because #MAGA. That's a fact. Now stop worring about that and look at the space force. Everybody says space is important and we have the best space---everyone says we have the bese--and you're not going to believe the space we're going to have except the fake news at CNN but I don't watch CNN

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      This is like a faith healer blaming the people who didn't get better for his own inability to heal them.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they keep unfairely complaning against Trump, they should be locked up.

      What for, blasphemy?

    9. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      Diagnosis is TDS, 200 mg Lithium Carbonate TID, orally, stat

    10. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      The tariffs have played a major role raising prices by almost 80 percent (partly due to associated shortages)

      They stated that the price increase was because of shortages and that tariffs were a major factor. Thanks for playing, Boris.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    11. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, CaseLabs probably wasn't killed by the tariffs, but. ...but...

      The tariffs have caused funny temporary things to happen to the steel and aluminum supply.

      Everybody knew the tariffs were coming, so there was lots of hoarding, lots of rushing to get everything imported before the tariffs, and now everybody's waiting a few weeks before importing more to see if the tariffs go away again -- so there is temporarily a huge mess in the market. Even if the tariffs don't change, the supply problems will go away soonish, and then we'll have the 10% tariff and that's it.

    12. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, the futures market exists for manufacturers to hedge against spikes in the price of materials. If they are too stupid to make use of this, they they probably weren't in this for the long haul anyway.

    13. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      L Ron Hubbard's religion looks downright rational compared to yours.

    14. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying there are things Trump isn't provably guilty of, other than treason and collusion, conspiracy, obstruction, perjury, etc? Wow cool. He'll hang either way though Brett Buttfuck.

    15. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by Fencepost · · Score: 1

      In a market that's working without substantial surpluses, a small reduction in supply (as might be caused by a tariff going into effect) can have a highly magnified impact.

      To take the extreme example, consider oxygen. On the surface, there's a substantial surplus. If you're deep underwater using scuba gear, a small reduction in supply may have a significant impact, one that you'd give huge amounts of money to alleviate if possible.

      On a less silly note, imagine that you have one of many factories depending on receiving components coming from China, and that demand for those components has remained fairly predictable. Suddenly something happens to cause supply to shrink - a ship sinks, someone starts a trade war, a foreign competitor suddenly appears - and suddenly you and all of the other existing factories are in a bidding war for those components because otherwise you have to shut down. How much will each factory pay? They'll pay enough to keep their lines running, unless the cost goes so high that running the line doesn't make sense.

      If you want to know more, the term is "Elasticity"

      --
      fencepost
      just a little off
    16. Re:Blame the business owner, not the tariffs. by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Hmm you're right I think! I don't usually hold with diagnosing over the internet, but Trump has given us so muc material it's likely not a bad choice.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  10. Greatness! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coming real soon!

  11. Tiny company, 3 people, gross revenue under $200K by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Manta has Case Labs at a staff of 3 and annual revenue of $178,500.

    Parent company California Fabrication Company is not much larger - staff of 8 and annual revenue of $1.4 million.

    I'd guess that all they really did in-house was accept shipments from their manufacturers in China, and put together the parts needed to fill orders for shipment.

    It sucks that they went out of business, but as noted on their website, the tariffs were not the only reason they declared bankruptcy - they also had a large account default on payment. That they didn't have enough operating capital to survive these issues one on top of the other is not too surprising, given that they are not well funded. They can't be. The average personal salary in California is $51K; the company payroll at that rate would account for 85% of annual revenue.

  12. It's bias in the media by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    China and the US are currently engaged in a trade war, causing many U.S. companies to lose money, lay off employees, or close entirely.

    The way the media portrays it:

    If a trade policy is implemented by a Democrat:

    • Open trade is good for the economy.
    • Tariffs protect American jobs by preventing them from being sent overseas.

    If a trade policy is implemented by a Republican:

    • Open trade causes American jobs to be sent overseas.
    • Tariffs cost American jobs by stifling the economy.

    The reality is that both are true. The press just likes to spin it in favor of or against the party in power.

    • Open trade causes American jobs to be sent overseas (assuming there are foreign countries with a lower standard of living than the U.S., which means they have lower labor costs). But the increased economic activity due to imported goods being cheaper than domestic goods results in a net boost to the domestic economy and the standard of living in the U.S.
    • Trade tariffs protect American jobs from being sent overseas. But do so by increasing the price of goods sold in the U.S., resulting in a net decrease to the domestic economy and the standard of living.

    The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products

    Nope. They're designed to help American manufacturing by making foreign products more expensive than American products. That is, they protect American jobs, but do so by making the products you buy more expensive.

    That's why I generally fall on the pro-open trade side of this. It's a Prisoner's dilemma situation, where if one side implements tariffs, they get a better result than open trade, while the other side gets the worst possible result. But if both sides implement tariffs, they both end up worse off than with open trade. The best solution for both sides overall is open trade.

    Trump's rationale (which I partly agree with but mostly don't) is that China has been abusing our policy of open import of Chinese goods by restricting export of American goods to China and/or subsidizing some of their goods which the U.S. imports which artificially kills off U.S. producers, thus giving China the advantage in the Prisoner's dilemma (and puts the U.S. at a disadvantage). The best solution found thus far to the iterated Prisoner's dilemma is the tit for tat strategy. If one side abuses the Prisoner's dilemma, the other side abuses it right back thus signaling that it won't take such abuse lying down. And eventually the side which started the abuse backs down, and the other side also backs down, reverting both sides to the best possible strategy for both (in this case, open trade).

    1. Re:It's bias in the media by hawk · · Score: 1

      Note that an economist who just plain *blasted* the initial round of tariffs, but noting that the only *possible* justifications for such actions was as a negotiating chip . . . rather than being cut off from access to high administration officials, was instead snatched up a week or two later as chief economic advisor, and is now, if not fully in charge, preaching this at those actually pulling the strings.

      tariffs are generally horrible and counterproductive, and *usually* there is no credible threat to use them as a way to get to freer trade (due to the damage taken by oneself). This does seem to be the oddball exception, and it *is* getting some of the partners to the negotiations table.

      As a free market economist myself, I'm eager to see how it turns out . . .

      hawk

    2. Re: It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The way the media portrays it:

      Does not track with your partisan representations. In fact, the media carried water for Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes. Meanwhile Carter, Clinton and Obama got regularly mocked for their failures.

      Remember, Nixon went to China. Remember, Reagan started NAFTA and his successor Bush the Elder negotiated it. Then when Bush the Junior flopped up the economy, the media did nothing to hold the parties responsible accountable. Instead they literally let the criminals walk free without criticism.

      And that is just since the 1970s.

      Sorry, Solandri, but Democrats are regularly attacked as weak on trade and industry. Not to mention defense and security. Remmeber Somalia? That was a scandal while many tens of thousands more Americans died in both the Bush's Wars in the Mideast.

      Good job falling for the lies about the media, but then you learn they are big corporations themselves.

    3. Re: It's bias in the media by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2

      Economists are to accountants as astrologers are to astronomers.

      Economics is a soft 'science', like sociology.

    4. Re: It's bias in the media by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I'd say Osama Bin-Laden screwed up the economy. Dubya was just holding the bag.

    5. Re:It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump's rationale (which I partly agree with but mostly don't) is that China has been abusing our policy of open import of Chinese goods by restricting export of American goods to China and/or subsidizing some of their goods which the U.S. imports which artificially kills off U.S. producers, thus giving China the advantage in the Prisoner's dilemma (and puts the U.S. at a disadvantage).

      It is much worse than this. My company just got joint-ventured where we had to dissolve our business unit there and reform it with 51% Chinese ownership. Considering we only make intellectual property their probable strategy is to evict us completely after indigenous versions of our ancillary functions(support/sales/etc) are in place.

      My company is British and the Americans, French and Indians impose no such constraints.

    6. Re:It's bias in the media by GrimSavant · · Score: 1

      Even though tariffs are applied as taxes on imports, and thus at face value seem to be mainly in the realm of foreign policy and international trade, a lot of the effects as to who wins and loses can be viewed in terms of the domestic economy. The tariffs help the local producer of the taxed product by raising the market price of their good without raising their price of production (in isolation), while hurting the consumers of the taxed product by raising its price.

      So CaseLabs going under provides a pretty straightforward example of this. Steel and aluminum producers are boosted by the tariffs on their goods, and a company on the margins that consumes a lot of steel and aluminum goes out of business because they cannot pass enough of the price increase down stream to their customers to stay afloat.

      More generally tariffs are typically bad news because they distort the markets to protect narrow economic interests who would be at a competitive disadvantage without some heavy handed assistance, but they can make sense in more complicated scenarios such as when the markets are already distorted or if the other side is already a bad actor. But if you are dealing with someone like Canada who has an edge on aluminum foundries because they have a ton of really cheap electricity from hydroelectric dams, then putting a bunch of aluminum tariffs on them like Trump is doing hurts the US as a whole only for the narrow benefit of the local aluminum industry, even before you get into retaliatory tariffs.

    7. Re:It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Media bias didn't kill that company. Awesome deflection though. With mostly unagreement like yours who needs Russians! #MAGA!

    8. Re:It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China and the US are currently engaged in a trade war, causing many U.S. companies to lose money, lay off employees, or close entirely.

      The way the media portrays it:

      If a trade policy is implemented by a Democrat:

      • Open trade is good for the economy.
      • Tariffs protect American jobs by preventing them from being sent overseas.

      If a trade policy is implemented by a Republican:

      • Open trade causes American jobs to be sent overseas.
      • Tariffs cost American jobs by stifling the economy.

      The reality is that both are true. The press just likes to spin it in favor of or against the party in power.

      • Open trade causes American jobs to be sent overseas (assuming there are foreign countries with a lower standard of living than the U.S., which means they have lower labor costs). But the increased economic activity due to imported goods being cheaper than domestic goods results in a net boost to the domestic economy and the standard of living in the U.S.
      • Trade tariffs protect American jobs from being sent overseas. But do so by increasing the price of goods sold in the U.S., resulting in a net decrease to the domestic economy and the standard of living.

      The tariffs are designed to help American manufacturing, they make American products cheaper than foreign products

      Nope. They're designed to help American manufacturing by making foreign products more expensive than American products. That is, they protect American jobs, but do so by making the products you buy more expensive.

      That's why I generally fall on the pro-open trade side of this. It's a Prisoner's dilemma situation, where if one side implements tariffs, they get a better result than open trade, while the other side gets the worst possible result. But if both sides implement tariffs, they both end up worse off than with open trade. The best solution for both sides overall is open trade.

      Trump's rationale (which I partly agree with but mostly don't) is that China has been abusing our policy of open import of Chinese goods by restricting export of American goods to China and/or subsidizing some of their goods which the U.S. imports which artificially kills off U.S. producers, thus giving China the advantage in the Prisoner's dilemma (and puts the U.S. at a disadvantage). The best solution found thus far to the iterated Prisoner's dilemma is the tit for tat strategy. If one side abuses the Prisoner's dilemma, the other side abuses it right back thus signaling that it won't take such abuse lying down. And eventually the side which started the abuse backs down, and the other side also backs down, reverting both sides to the best possible strategy for both (in this case, open trade).

      Thanks for this hilariously systematic attempt at explaining the very human field of politics. It would be very useful if the other 99% of humanity also had autism.

    9. Re:It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You left out that there is no open trade. In China, all business must be owned by Chinese nationals. Google and Apple are both bending over backwards for the Chinese Eilites. That is why there is an Alibaba, that is why there are BAICs autos.

      GO TRUMP!!!
      Please make America great again. Screw SJWs!

    10. Re:It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prisoner's dilemma is about information disparity. There is a whole host of game theory modelling so not everything fits the only model you have heard of.

      Generally open and free trade is only best for an entity if the other entiites are also practicing the same policies. Once a privileged actor is allowed to play as a protectionist all imagined benefits are imaginary only.

      I don't like Trump and feel he is stupid and heavy handed with this issue and many others. But he is correct that this is an unacceptable situation we have been in and that it should have NEVER been allowed to happen. The Chinese have a long history of abusing trade. It's why the British started the opium wars. They are acting HIGHLY protectionist while paying mouthpieces to yell about the virtues of free and open trade in their victim countries. Yes we are better if we can all walk the street without a bully beating up people, but our decision to not be a bully doesn't keep China from being one.

      You don't have collaboration, freedom and open relations without.....collaboration, freedom and open relations. All parties involved must play by the rules. One party playing free trade does not result in free trade. So arguing the benefits of free trade is inappropriate in free trade countries(the US is the PRIMARY historical promoter of free trade) is completely ridiculous. It is preaching to the choir. The issue is NOT WHETHER TO HAVE FREE TRADE. IT IS TO ATTEMPT TO ARRANGE FOR FREE TRADE. How people can't understand the issue at hand is pathetic.

      The US suspending its free trade policy is recognition that free trade does not exist because China is not engaged in free trade. the grand illusion is ridiculous and should never have been allowed. These costs of tariffs are hopefully temporary and will result in some ACTUAL free trade which we have never really had with China. The old excuse was that China would go democratic when offered the wonderful benefits of participating in our economy. That hasn't happened so lets stop giving China special arrangements thinking we are helping our sick cousin. We aren't China's saviour and should require China to play by the rules like everyone else.

    11. Re:It's bias in the media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if both sides implement tariffs, they both end up worse off than with open trade. The best solution for both sides overall is open trade.

      That's a non sequitur. Consider an extreme case in which they both have million percent tariffs, i.e. trade between countries is forbidden and penalized by death. In that case they would both be forced to develop parallel, independent economies, which would in time result in stabilization of supply chains and price equilibriums, just like if they had been existing on different planets and had no contact ever to begin with. The country with less surface area and less natural resources would be worse off in absolute terms but relatively only if the per square mile population were to exceed that of the other country.

      As you can see your argument is not logical, your assumption that "they would be both worse off" does not flow from your premise. You are simply repeating "common knowledge" which in fact originates at ideological (and false) propaganda sources.

  13. So much winning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it hurts !

    #maga

  14. Trade Wars? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Did I miss something, or are we back to the BBS era?

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Trade Wars? by tippen · · Score: 1

      Had a blast with that game back in the day! Not exactly an MMO, but was the first real multiplayer game I experienced over dialup.

  15. It's not that we hate him... by Grog6 · · Score: 0, Troll

    ... It's just that he's so bad at the job.

    How many personal bankruptcy cases has he had, and totally fucked everyone involved?

    This time it's Our turn in the barrel.

    There is no Moral Right, they gave up morals to elect Trump.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    1. Re:It's not that we hate him... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How many personal bankruptcy cases has he had, and totally fucked everyone involved?

      Personal? It was my understanding that Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. On the other hand, IIRC the majority of his businesses have eventually gone bankrupt, which actually costs everyone else more than if it were a personal bankruptcy.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:It's not that we hate him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally I can say I hate him. I have zero respect for obese, inbred, loudmouthed, moronic, dishonest, pathetically weak skinned bitches who sell out their country and masquerade as leadership. FUCK TRUMP, HANG THE TRAITOR.

    3. Re: It's not that we hate him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You tell 'em, Comrade Wang!

    4. Re:It's not that we hate him... by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Personal? It was my understanding that Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy.

      That's a pretty fine distinction in the case of a family operation. Ruined either way, without the Russian mob.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:It's not that we hate him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha go hang yourself, faggot.
      I'm enjoying your impotent rage.

    6. Re:It's not that we hate him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like you may be obsessed and this hatred you are clinging to is definitely not helpful. Why take the time and energy to HATE someone? To hate someone must mean you think of them often. You may wish them bodily harm even. All this over someone doing stuff you have zero control over.

      But hey, have fun with that I guess. I'll be over here not wasting the mental energy on hating someone I don't even know that generally has no impact on my day to day life.

      P.S. Do not take this comment to mean I like him or even voted for him, I just can't be bothered to HATE someone because that isn't helpful for me.

    7. Re: It's not that we hate him... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Comrade Wang? That tirade could come from any country in the world, including the USA, apart from Putinland.

  16. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1, Insightful

    There are objectively few reasons to like almost anything he's done unless you're either very short-sighted and on the receiving end of his wealth transfers to the rich, and/or you're a godawful centipede who gets a boner at gratuitous cruelty toward brown people and wanton damage to global liberal-democracy, including the western world's economy as seen here.

    Among non-deplorable people who use facts and math, Trump has made himself a supervillain, and his typical actions will be met with disapproval. DEAL WITH IT. Go full deplorable and revel in the destruction, or stop being an infected sore on humanity's ass and get off the wrong side of history.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  17. switch to making cases from hardwood by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    and recycled plastic,
    hardwood for the nice look and feel for the outside of the case and recycled plastic for the interior because it is not electrically conductive and strong & lightweight

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  18. On the subject of steel by quonset · · Score: 5, Informative

    One thing everyone here is missing is that U.S. Steel and Nucor Steel have been fighting every single exemption request companies have put forth to the U.S. Commerce Department. These companies want exemptions from the tariffs so they can continue to get steel at reasonable prices and/or quality and type they need.

    Instead, the two largest producers of steel in the country have raised their prices and told the Commerce Department the exemptions are bogus because they can make the product, even though in at least one case, a company stopped buying steel from U.S. Steel because of quality control issues.

    Of course politics plays a big role in all this:

    Charlotte-based Nucor, which financed a documentary film made by a top trade adviser to Mr. Trump, and Pittsburgh-based United States Steel, which has previously employed several top administration officials, have objected to 1,600 exemption requests filed with the Commerce Department over the past several months.

    To date, their efforts have never failed, resulting in denials for companies that are based in the United States but rely on imported pipes, screws, wire and other foreign steel products for their supply chains.

    In one case, a company stated “the sole U.S. producer of high speed steel material appropriate for cutting tools is not currently ramping up any production to expand this aspect of their business and has not shown any interest in quoting new business.”

    As the tariffs take hold, expect prices of finished goods to rise substantially and more businesses to either go under or relocate out of the country. The largest nail manufacturer in the country has already laid off 12% of its workforce, cut hours for the remainder and is still on the brink of extinction, so it has to make such a decision.

    1. Re:On the subject of steel by mentil · · Score: 1

      OTOH, couldn't the tariffs' disruption be seen as a selection pressure, weeding out the weakest areas of our economy, the businesses teetering on the brink that were likely going to go under anyways?

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    2. Re:On the subject of steel by quonset · · Score: 1

      There's a steel company in my state which provides 1/5 of the tax base for the county it is in. There is a possibility the plant may close and 1,200 people would be out of work.

      That doesn't sound like a company which was on the brink to begin with.

      Further, as I said in the article, the largest nail manufacturer may have to relocate or go under. Again, that doesn't sound like a company which had problems before the tariffs were put in place.

  19. So you prefer alloy from dictors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assumption: cases from CaseLabs are mostly alloy,not steel!
    Fact: Trump pushed alloy tariffs on Turkey recently because of blackmail campaign by Erdogan.
    Conclusion: Twitter and other prefer American companies work with dictators and their alloy to have it standing on their desk, rather then have American alloy in their home.

    I think there's a reason CaseLabs did not name the country they were dealing with here, to not ruin their name entirely. Tariffs are put out to country harming US economy. China is using state subsidized steel, which is a crime. Turkey is on it's way to full blown dictatorship. What do you guys actually want? I say ROT IN HELL CaseLabs, ROT IN HELL

  20. Re: Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    The bile in your comment renders your festering words less powerful.

    Trump is definitely not a good politician. It's right for political people to really freak out about him.

  21. There absolutely is a bias. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A bias to the truth. But you don't want the truth.

  22. Well said! by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    nt.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  23. We aren't by fyngyrz · · Score: 0, Troll

    if we are going to correct the trade imbalances

    Tip: We aren't.

    Trump will be out of there in ~2 or ~6 years, as well as congress changing hands at some point, and whatever policy changes were brought about consequent to the current administration are almost certain to be reversed — the pendulum always swings back, particularly when it goes so far away from center.

    Some of the damage done in the interim is potentially recoverable: environmental / pollution damage, trade conditions (your focus), international relations, regulatory erosion.

    Some of it is unavoidably long-term, such as the installation of supreme court justices who base decisions on superstition, cronyism and ideology not derived from the constitution. That sort of damage tends to hang on a long time due to weaknesses in the design of the judicial system.

    But some of the the damage done is not recoverable. Jobs, businesses, ranches and farms lost, families injured by radical changes in circumstance, people suffering and dying due to reduced access to adequate medical care.

    This nation is quite resilient in the largest sense and it will almost certainly recover in general from the current blundering and malfeasance; but part of what's happening now is low-level suffering that will be lost in the noise of the overall stats or a recovery. Doesn't mean it isn't there or doesn't matter. It does. Doesn't mean Trump and the Republicans and the wealthy and powerful interests they kowtow to should be forgiven: they should not.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:We aren't by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      if we are going to correct the trade imbalances

      Tip: We aren't.

      Indeed. The root problem is that America consumes too much and invests too little. Tariffs will not change this, and by lowering wages and raising prices, make it even harder.

      Fewer Americans will design smart phones. More will sew t-shirts.

      But Donald Trump has made one change to America that may have long term positive effects: He has turned many liberals into champions of free trade.

    2. Re:We aren't by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the shift of the world using the USD as the primary means of exchange to something else, like Keynes' Bancor or something similar. China has been calling for this for nearly a decade.

      https://www.bis.org/review/r09...

      At the end of the day, the problem is Congress. They have known for nearly 10 years China was going to pull the plug. This is the price we pay.

      As well, I'm always amazed at people who say trade imbalances don't matter. Don't you study history? This is what World War II was about! What did they discuss when the UN was founded? Trade imbalances! They discussed nothing else of significance.

    3. Re:We aren't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the story of a dropshipping company that primarily made its margins by bringing in custom products from China and selling them in the US.

      When you are manufacturing anything, 20% of the effort and innovation is in the design, and 80% is in the execution; both have to be right for anything to work. This is a company that, in 40+ years of operation, never thought once to make an investment in onshore infrastructure and diversify its offerings. How hard is it to make high-volume cookie-cutter cases and standard parts? They put "Made in the USA" all over their website, but go out of business due to Chinese tarrifs wiping out their margins?

      Trump is saving ruthless technocratic socialites like you from yourselves; do you even realize you are acting like a drug addict, looking for the next hit? The arrogance required to not do any research into whats going on here and then to parrot that line. You need the "stupid people" to drive your cabs, pick your food, run your gyms, protect you, build your widgets, and keep you in check. Thats what Trump ultimately represents.

    4. Re:We aren't by ChoGGi · · Score: 0

      This is the story of a dropshipping company that primarily made its margins by bringing in custom products from China and selling them in the US.

      CaseLabs made their cases in CA, that's where the higher prices come from.

      How hard is it to make high-volume cookie-cutter cases and standard parts?

      They made low volume custom cases with custom parts.

    5. Re:We aren't by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      Lolwut? You DO know who passed NAFTA right? You ARE aware of who was pushing to TPP right? It wasn't Conservatives.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
  24. As predicted by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Am I the only one who's exhausted by all this winning?

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  25. Spot on by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Finally, someone has drilled down to the correct answer. The customer / end user / taxpayer always ends up paying when costs increase.

    Tariffs increase costs of imports. In our economy, locally produced materials cost more than imports. Either way, end products cost more, and that ends up eroding the wallet of those who ultimately pay the bills.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re: Spot on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well. Itâ(TM)s passed on. But it doesnâ(TM)t mean consumers pay. Sometimes the price is too high, the competitor wins, and the company loses sales / possibly goes under.

    2. Re: Spot on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taxes don't come out of the consumer pocket. They come out of profits. Businesses price goods based on the maximum profit level. If they could raise prices without losing sales, they already would have.
      Let's say a business can produce a widget, say a concert ticket, for $10.
      And $100 is the most someone would pay for that widget.
      The business will sell it for $100. Not $20, why leave cash in the table?

      If the business has to pay a 33% tax on the profit, that just lowers profit from $90 to $60. Nothing changes from the consumer perspective.

      Now go ahead and move the goal posts of your argument, thus provideng I'm right.

  26. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Well said. Thanks.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  27. More explaining by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    You also forgot to mention that the end product price goes up, the market shrinks, and the economy follows it.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:More explaining by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      You also forgot to mention that the end product price goes up, the market shrinks, and the economy follows it.

      Only if supply and demand were in equal balance in setting the price at the beginning.

      If there was oversupply from dumping, that wouldn't happen at all. Then the price would move back towards the cost of production, and it would make future supply more stable and the market healthier. Businesses that rely on steel would see increased confidence in their future projections, improving their access to finance and making expansions more reasonable.

    2. Re:More explaining by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      Only if supply and demand were in equal balance in setting the price at the beginning.

      With very few exceptions, all of which are either full on luxury products for the rich or desperately needed resources for everyone else, all generally stable markets are price sensitive when faced with artificial barriers. Increase the price unreasonably, decrease the market. Even just the perception of an unreasonable price increase (and any tariff-induced increase is viewed this way by any buyer who actually cares about their funds) can be enough to turn a buyer away unless we're talking luxury or desperation.

      It's not a question of oversupply. It's a question of need. Barring need, markets will erode in the face of unreasonable price escalation. And price escalation consequent to artificial price increases mandated by the government can't be explained away as reasonable unless you're blind, dumb, and stupid. The apparent imbalance is due to real world factors imposed by different economic systems. You can't fix that with a tariff, only with actual change to the economic system itself. Or IOW, it's not going to be as cheap to make steel in the US as it is elsewhere as long as our economy is significantly different. None of that erases the knowledge in the buyer's mind that they're paying more than they otherwise would have to, and that, in turn, affects purchasing trends.

      You either do it (a lot) better to earn a higher price and so can earn your market in the eye(s) of the buyer(s), or you will be facing either a reduced market due to legit competition from elsewhere, or a reduced market due to artificial barriers.

      "I'd buy that for a dollar" is not "I'd buy that for $10" when money actually matters.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  28. blah blah blah blah, what else? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blame it on tariffs. This company was on the skids for longer than BJ Clinton's wooden nose. Sour grapes are better with a good whine.

  29. Oh, it was the trade war huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Company that is barely in business finally goes out... and finds something to blame it on.
    Ok.

  30. I didn't vote for cheaper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What makes you idiots think people like me wanted these tariffs because it would make things cheaper?

    I don't want it to be cheaper.

    I want it to be more expensive; being competitive would be a bonus.

    And I want my neighbor to have a job, making that more expensive thing.

    The flaw in my own vision is the expectation that with more people working and paying taxes, that taxes will actually get lowered.

    Sooner or later another Democrat will be president and spend the sheet out of whatever gains were made before them, on 'programs that cost money' and don't necessarily build citizen or national wealth.

    Democrats don't build wealth, they build a voter base.

    Republicans build wealth, and the voter base are people wanting to be successful.

    Democrats want a cheap Chinese computer for a cheap price, at any cost.

    Republicans don't care what the computer costs, as long as we are wealthy enough to afford it.

  31. Re: Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    americas industrial base was lost in the 70s when greedy american companies were allowed to move jobs to third world countries and dictator regimes. when greedy american companies paid american politicians to kill the labor movement. when greedy american companies were allowed to globalize. theres a recurring theme here, wonder what it is....oh yeh. greed. Make America Greedy Again.

  32. Business is very much about the straw by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    breaking the camel's back. Anyone here old enough to remember 3DFX? They went out of business while their cards were flying off the shelves. It really doesn't take much to kill a business. Cases are steel and aluminum, both of which just got slapped with a 20% increase. If you're already struggling to compete because of supply problems and your costs go up 20% what do you suppose happens?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Business is very much about the straw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3DFX went under well after their cards stopped "flying off the shelves". Voodoo3 was only moderately successful. Voodoo4/5 was a bust. Really the company went downhill after they swung and missed on the Voodoo Rush. Banshee was their only truly successful card after the Voodoo 2.

    2. Re:Business is very much about the straw by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Someone is wrong in the internet! VooDoo rush was first dude. It was a rushed buggy version of the VooDoo 1.

      VooDoo rush (sold by Hercules) was the only 3d accelerated card with a VESA feature connector, which I once needed for my VFX-1. Never worked right, pallet was screwed up in 256 color mode half the time.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  33. Trump doesn't know what he's doing by rsilvergun · · Score: 0

    either that or he's corrupt and giving out tariffs to help specific businesses/people (he's got friend in the Steel industry who helped bankroll his campaign).

    Tariffs make sense when you're protecting existing business. We've spent 40 years outsourcing everything we can. There's nothing left to protect. What's needed is to very carefully build back American industry. And even then the impact on jobs will be so-so due to automation. It's mostly something you do to protect national interests. Still, The current approach is like a kid playing his first management sim on the Amiga. It's not going to end well. This shouldn't be surprising either. Trump's a guy who couldn't make money running a casino. You know, where the house always wins....

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  34. No, it caused a weakened company to die off by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    and normally you'd do a very careful analysis of the effects of a tariff before putting it in play. You'd expect

    1. The POTUS to be aware that aluminum prices are already high due to shortages.

    2. You'd expect him to understand that if there is a shortage of a good driving up prices that putting tariffs on it is pointless since high prices for a good mean you've already got a healthy enough market you don't need to protect it.

    3. You'd also expect that companies that are hurting due to high aluminum prices would be on the verge of collapse and that a tariff will tip the scales for many, sinking companies that might have weathered the storm otherwise.

    4. And above all you would expect the POTUS not to undertake risky national policy to score cheap political points.

    None of these expectations have been met.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  35. Sounds like a liberal excuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I doubt the tariffs were to blame, they have hardly been in place long enough to seriously affect a business. Yeah probably some liberal in the company blaming Trump for a problem with competition and pricing not tariffs.

  36. You must be a socialist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be hoping the government subsidizes all poorly run companies and bad management for free? Whenever a company fails , the blame for the failure of that company falls squarely on the president of the united states in your world correct?

    You socialist libtards have no fucking idea how business, loans, commerce, and the world works. Every thing, every problem, every reason for anything failing is the president of the Unites States fault.

    Libtards such as yourself absolutely disdain personal responsibility.

    1. Re:You must be a socialist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your opinion has as much value as a diploma from Trump University.

      Trumptard.

  37. Re: a fine post (minor fix) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > so far away from center.

    Note to non-USA readers: refers to US definitions of 'center'. Apparently derived from the prevailing US mythology that Obama Administration was not, despite the evidence, a right-wing government.

  38. ha! Where were you when the original jobs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    were lost.

    I worked for an AMERICAN company in the early 1980s that made personal computers. The cases were all made in America by Americans, as were the motherboards, the plug-in boards controlling all the peripherals etc. There came a point when a little shop opened up in the area dramatically underselling us and then another and then another and they all had something in common: they were selling very cheap motherboards and cases and cards from Asia (mainly Taiwan at that time). The stuff they were selling as complete products in boxes with manuals and such had retail prices far below our basic cost of materials. A Motherboard was selling at retail for less than our cost for a PCB and the ICs. We had to cancel our orders for more American cases and transition to cheap imported Asian cases, then eventually stopped making cheaper peripheral boards and simply imported them from Asia. Then one day a guy from Asia came in and offered to help us setup a plant in China, and his big selling point was that the Chinese military would bring in all the workers each morning, and escort them back to their housing each evening and make sure there was no worker theft! The owners of the company decided to call it quits and retire. I suspect something similar happened at a number of other similar companies.

    Somehow, all the "free traders" who scream at any jobs lost related to a Trump tariff as Trump tries to force the issue of a level playing field for trade are nowhere to be seen before Trump's tariffs (when the tariffs of those other countries assist them in destroying countless other American jobs). "Free Trade" clowns, it seems, as perfectly FINE with every nation on Earth using tariffs against the US and all the American manufacturing jobs that have been demolished over the past 20+ years under both Republican and Democrat presidents.

    If you do not support "free trade" in both directions then you're no free trader at all; you're just a shill for Wall Street con men who get rich on cheap imports.

  39. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Muh brown people! Muh wrong side of historyyyy!
    Is all you can do spew buzzwords?
    Go eat a bag of dicks. He's the president, you can cry insults all you want but that won't change anything.
    Deal with it.

  40. um, Harley Davidson is a bad example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a few non-Trump-hating press have pointed out, Harley was already moving those jobs out of the US and simply grabbed the Trump tariffs as a politically-acceptable PR excuse. Other articles have pointed out that the management of HD have a problem: they failed to realize that the US Millenials would be less interested in their products and that meant market stagnation. They have failed to adapt and create new products to excite the US market and attract enough young buyers, but the rising economies elsewhere are well-suited to motorcycles and have many buyers looking for the iconic brand. As a result, HD has been ramping-up production in those foreign markets where they will manufacture and sell locally. When they fight their American workers over this offshoring, it's more palatable to say "blame Trump and his tariffs" than to say "management is out of touch with the American customers, and wants to boost its bonuses by jettisoning US workers".

    Where HD is a good anti-Trump example is that they got a big Trump tax break and, unlike many other companies, they are not using it to benefit their American workers or to increase/upgrade American production facilities etc. HD is apparently doing what Nancy Pelosi wanted people to believe every company would do, as long as you ignore that they started this long before the tariffs were announced.

  41. it all sounds so good, except by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you seem to not account for the tariffs nearly every other nation puts on goods from America.

    The underlying assumption of the entire post-WWII period was that the US had such a strong manufacturing base and such a solid middle class that American diplomats could make deals all over the world that bought international political favor at the expense of a few American jobs scattered around the country. If five or ten thousand jobs disappeared in the heartland and in exchange Germany seemed a more stable ally then elites in Washington DC were happy to let those German tariffs exist. If another ten thousand manufacturing jobs in America were lost to buy favor with Spain, the elites in DC were happy to overlook Spanish tariffs. Same thing for country after country (and American factory after American factory destroyed).

    At some point, the people in America in "fly-over country" (places between the coasts that the political and media elites avoid) decided they did not want a future of only being able to buy cheap Chinese junk, and the best jobs in town being: "greeter" at the door of the local Wallmart.

    The argument pushed by elites (many of whom make money from investing in firms that import junk from China) that tariffs are bad and will kill the economy seem to miss a big point: America's economy became the giant it was WITH tariffs, and slumped to very low growth in the era of "free trade", and other countries like China have grown enormously WITH huge tariffs they currently maintain. In fact, as a matter of historical record, nations who control their trade with tariffs maintain their independence and manufacturing capacities and nations that eliminate tariffs tend to collapse. HISTORY classes where one studies what actually happened in the past, are more valuable here than economics classes where people imagine and project what might happen in the future with their pet theories of their preferred marketplace manipulations.

  42. On the subject of Netflix. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know what happens when a big trade group doesn't want to play ball? Their customers do like Netflix, and make their own product. Don't say it can't happen. When the rust belt, rusted, smaller, nimbler steel mills came into existence, making more specialized grades.

  43. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to all the world's foremost facts & math experts, Hillary is definitely going to win the election. 99 to 1 odds I hear! All the best people are saying so. Shut up and don't disagree with us, we're very important.

  44. Re:Tiny company, 3 people, gross revenue under $20 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They were already slow on filling orders, and they've had moratoria put on taking new orders in the past just to catch up on backlogs.

    It was not a healthy company.

  45. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you can use "facts and math" to condemn Trump's policies, then do so.

    This BS hit piece uses neither - in truth, it conceals essential facts and obscures the math to make it all seem like Trump's fault... when it isn't anything close to.
    A 10% tariff on one component will not cause an 80% increase in the price of a case.
    On the other hand, declining sale and the getting ripped off by a major client? Those WILL wreck your garage business of building absurdly priced cases. Notice how the article barely touches on those, but emphasizes instead the political line.

    Your own post reveals how "facts and math" have little to do with your own thoughts. You respond to a complaint about excess politics on slashdot by making classist and racist accusations (plus the typical "fascist" complaint), including the obligatory sexual perverted smear. Your conclusion delves deeper, deteriorating into straight out personal attacks.

    In comparison, the parent used to insults and blamed no one for anything. Which one of you is the adult?

  46. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And this is where I'm just at a loss.

    I'm a white male who grew up in the country hunting, fishing and driving pickups and working on farms, who's now upper middle class and headed into middle age. About to move into the suburbs.

    I'm pretty much someone who should absolutely be a core republican voter. (Save for a little too much education.) Yet here I sit, repulsed at what the republican party has become. They lost me. For the entire rest of my life. Until everyone who was complicit in the last decade of cynical depravity by the republicans and their spawn has left the party, fuck 'em.

    Now that my grandmother has passed, I'm never voting for another republican the rest of my life. The options are democrats or hopefully someone sensible. I just don't understand how a party could draw a hard social line that they know is going to alienate marginal voters for a generation. It's madness.

    --
    Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  47. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fuck off you ignorant cunt

  48. Re: Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    If only there was a way we could add a fiscal disincentive to making things overseas and importing them into the US. We could call them tariffs or something...

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  49. oh noes the reselling potentials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what is everyone worried about? that a middle man front shop for chinese cases went down? could you not order your own cases from china cheaper? do you really need someone to hold your dick for you while your piss ? ...... like the mexicans i can understand, but Americans? becoming a joke lately .... used to look up to that country .....

  50. Really misleading article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow a California company blaming going out of business on Trump, imagine that. No not all the other factors they name afterwards or the fact they sell over priced cases in the first place. Nope itâ(TM)s Trump.

  51. Of their own decision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Produce, assemble, and buy components made in the USA to make the cases. I don't see the issue really. You cheapened out and now your seeing the consequences of it.

  52. The rolled-steel thin edge of the wedge by rho · · Score: 2

    I grew up in a time when knowing something about computer cases meant something. Machine tooling was expensive, so knowing the difference between one case that had been designed by a machining efficiency expert and another that had been designed by a wizened system builder was worth a 100-150% markup. Cheap cases were notable for having a layout where the motherboard was screwed down so far from the 5 1/4" bays that your leads from your cheap power supply wouldn't reach your floppy drive.

    Computer cases have since become some kind of wealth signal for the PC builder prosperity gospelists. If you accept the desktop PC into your heart, you too can have an RGB-LED double aluminum liquid-cooled heaven right now on your fold-out table.

    Incontrovertible fact #1: all PRs hide the chewy center. The default of a large account added greatly to the problem is the chewy center. Every business is accountable to its shareholders. If CaseLabs went out of business because they lost a primary account, they will definitely blame anything but that fact. That's why they are pointing to tariffs, which they have no control over, as a primary cause, rather than the possibility that they have been price raping a major client, who may have hired somebody who said "why the f-ck are you buying $400 cases?".

    Incontrovertible fact #2: US companies that arbitrage Chinese trade markets are rent-seekers. They could employ 1,000 minimum wage+ employees, but they are not what you'd call "domestic industry". China knows quite well what industry looks like. That's why everything is built in China.

    Incontrovertible fact #3: In the modern world, a Chinese child laborer who hand-solders an Arduino board has more skills than a union worker who ensures the "Made in the USA" sticker was applied correctly. If you're a producer, and you have no control over your production chain, you're a marketer.

    --
    Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
  53. Trump taxed intermediate goods and not finished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The tarriffs apply to steel and aluminum stock: sheets, bars, etc.

    They don't apply to things made of steel and aluminum like cars and PC cases.

    World+dog have been complaining that the tariffs are stupid because there are far more jobs in the metal-using industries than in metal production.

    They were also applied abruptly, leading to market instability as everyone adjusts. People who import bulk metal don't know how much domestic demand will decrease and domestic production will increase. If they hold off on a shipload until they can judge the market, that can lead to shortages and temporary price spikes greater than the tariff amount.

  54. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to all the world's foremost facts & math experts, Hillary is definitely going to win the election. 99 to 1 odds I hear! All the best people are saying so. Shut up and don't disagree with us, we're very important.

    Well you were wrong, weren't you?

  55. US tariffs on Canadian steel, not China by tdailey · · Score: 1

    >> CaseLabs is likely referring to the growing number of tariffs being enforced on Chinese imports

    The growing US tariffs on Canadian products, including steel, imposed on May 31. Not China.

  56. Remember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America first!

  57. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    The Republicans don't plan to be around in anything resembling their past or current form for another generation. They know their platform can't win a popular vote anymore and that American society won't tolerate minority rule much longer, so they're catering to the worst of society for one last desperate hold on power. When this backfires spectacularly on them, I expect they'll spend a decade or two in the political doghouse and come back as something of a centrist party as the Democrats move left.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  58. Sad to see them go, but business model is the prob by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am sad to see them go, but their business model depended on cheap, foreign gov't subsidized material that gutted domestic production of those raw materials.

    They are exactly the kind of businesses that the tariffs are aimed at... in the end, businesses like this are bad for our economy and security. Good for globalization, but that's not the phase we are in right now.

  59. And nothing of value was lost by ghostoftiber · · Score: 1

    We live in the age of little cardboard robots being sold at Walmart for STEM projects and cute little knit cases for raspberry pis being sold on etsy. RC Aircraft made out of commodity servos and single chip flight controllers are housed in dollar store foam board. No-one really cares about the case in this day and age. I can buy a "gaming PC" from any number of vendors, I don't really want to build one myself. I think I'm more likely to buy a videocard to upgrade an existing PC rather than buy a new PC from parts and eat the shipping. PC Gaming is maybe 25% of the market, these guys were just in the wrong segment and looking to blame anything but their industry and failure to adapt.

  60. What did they manufacture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did Caselabs buy steel, buy complete formed cases or ? Given our environmental restrictions, the most economic way for Caselabs may have been buying flat punched & painted case metals, paying for shipment by weight, then forming (folding) into finished case parts. Gone are paint and steel making emissions problems, gone is most of labor. Production becomes quick & easy. Problem is Caselabs would have no machines, permits or skills to punch, paint & debur case parts when prices from China increase greatly.
    Point of tariffs was protection of and creating economic environment for production is USA. Putting a case parts importer out of business is a step toward a place for a US based cast maker using US raw materials.

  61. Thank you, Dolt45! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They aren't the first and as long as Trumpelstilzchen is in the WH, they won't be the last US small business that goes under either...

  62. Tariffs? by autlycus · · Score: 0

    I would almost lay money that the defaulting customer had more to do with the closure than tariffs. This was kind of a niche market, which would probably swallow a 20% price increase. Depending on the size of the default, that may have been something that just couldn't be overcome. Blaming the tariffs sounds like a political scape goat.

  63. They weren't a "U.S.-based PC case manufacturer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the parts are from foreign countries and so is the assembly. Most of the jobs that went to creating those boxes were not in the US.

    What this company was doing was undercutting potential US based case manufacturers from even existing by undercutting their prices with Chinese products.

    So, yes, if your job is importing Chinese products, the US retaliating against China's unjust economic dominance might bite you in the ass.

    TLDR: Death Star Contractors.

  64. Re:Slashdot Trump Hate Article #23508723579 by strikethree · · Score: 1

    It is good that you are repulsed by the Republican Party.

    Please, for the love of all that is holy, do not assume that the Democratic Party will be your saviour from the evil Republicans. Both parties are corrupt to the core.

    --
    "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen