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China's 'First Fully Homegrown' Web Browser, Used By Key Government Bodies, Under Fire For 'Heavily' Copying Google Chrome Files (ft.com)
Redcore, a Chinese start-up that claims to have produced a homegrown browser used by key government bodies and state-run companies, has come under fire after users discovered its software was heavily based on Google's Chrome browser [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled; alternative source]. From a report: The company, which says it has created "innovative and world-leading" browser technology, came under scrutiny on Thursday when users looked through the browser's installation directory and discovered an original "chrome.exe" file along with image files of the Chrome logo. "We have launched the world's only purely China-owned browser Redcore, to break the US monopoly," the company said in a statement on Wednesday. The Financial Times verified Chinese users' findings and found with its own examination that Redcore was using components from the v. 49 version of Google Chrome. "Redcore has Chrome [elements] in it," said company founder Gao Jing in response to fierce public criticism. "But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
they sure do copy a lot over there
do they ever really innovate? I mean in the last 800 years
Maybe the problem is not the browser.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Any danger of getting even the basic facts right?
By whom? If the Chinese government is happy, everyone is happy.
Google copied them.
What did they do, redirect Chrome's vacuum cleaner hose to their own servers?
I thought a lot of Chrome was open source so why is this a problem? If China used a lot of Chromium and Blink engine both of which are open sourced along with WebKit. Just not sure how this is a story?
Isn't Chromium under GPL? If Redcore releases the source, are they still violating anything?
"But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
Not plagiarism? Well, that's technically correct. This would be corporate espionage at worst and copyright/trademark infringement at best. But let's leave that aside and wonder why they weren't satisfied with grabbing and using Chromium, the open source project Chrome is largely based on. I'm certain they have the technical expertise to compile and create a distribution package. That shouldn't be a high hurdle to jump, so it come back to why?
Maybe it's a political statement to Google who is trying to get back into the mainland Chinese market? We can take your & call it our own, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Also, the last bit about customer satisfaction? Is the article just weird about what questions were asked because that really feels like it came out of no where.
Internet Explorer licenced Mosaic from spyglass.
Chrome came from webkit which came from KDE's khtml
Firefox had to change its name twice from Firebird and Phoenix.
HTML came from SGML and hypertext was described in the 1940s.
All browsers claim to be Mozilla/5.0
This isn't going to enhance China's position in the on-going US-China tariff controversies.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I suppose ...
Meanwhile, it would have been nice to have another truly different browser added to the world, instead of another Chrome clone.
"Redcore is founded by Chen Benfeng ... Chen previously worked at ... Microsoft"
At the risk of showing my own ignorance, isn't WebKit open source? If so, what's the problem? Isn't that the whole fucking point of open-sourcing anything at all?
they sure do copy a lot over there
Yes they do and there is some good money in it too. But to be fair there is more than a little of it over here too.
do they ever really innovate? I mean in the last 800 years
Yes. Quite a lot actually. Sure there is a robust amounts of counterfeiting and knock off products but plenty of original work too. People used to think Japan produced nothing but crappy knockoffs too back in the 1950s and there were legitimate reasons to think that but over time it changes as the economy develops.
Need evidence of innovation? You're looking at it right now. The majority of electronics come from China and/or Taiwan. Much of this was developed by local talent without copying designs from elsewhere. Companies in every country engage in a certain amount of copying of works done elsewhere. The US and Europe are no exceptions.
https://www.thechinahustlefilm.com
lol@sfpd:~$ apt-get autoremove
Don't brag about it....
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Rinux 4.18 just rereased. It comprete operating system base on minux with modurar driver system.
IN other news mozilla under fire for communicator code....oh wait....nvm WHO THE FUCK CARES BROWSERS ARE FREE
Even a state-sponsored effort can start on open-source, provided they review the code and maintain it to their needs.
Which they follow, they copy it left right and sideways with no respect for the owners
True innovation is coming up with something that doesn't exist, isn't even an idea, and making it happen. Making a new browser, even if the Chinese didn't steal code from Chrome, is not innovation. It's attempted improvement.
Improvement looks at what everyone else is doing and tries something different, while "standing on the shoulders of the giant". No original thought.
The reasons any tech is in China is for cheap labor and loose environmental standards. I've worked in tech and with the Chinese. We had to QC all of their work. Which was funny since they were hired to do QC.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Hi my question is does google search engine work in china i have some blog http:gkguide.in and https://wordkhojo.in
Most browsers already are this.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
vs.
Since when taking people for idiots has become so egregious?
But let's leave that aside and wonder why they weren't satisfied with grabbing and using Chromium, the open source project Chrome is largely based on. I'm certain they have the technical expertise to compile and create a distribution package. That shouldn't be a high hurdle to jump, so it come back to why?
Tracking and monitoring. China is standing on the shoulders of giants in the field of tracking and monitoring.
If they only wanted a browser, they would have used Chromium. They want a platform for tracking and monitoring, so the used Chrome.
Was it Chrome or Chromium?
Chrome is the closed version of the open source Chromium.
"But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
Not plagiarism? Well, that's technically correct.
Well, it technically is plagiarism, albeit not in the traditional domain of interpersonal communication. If code can be copyrighted, then it can be plagiarized.
This would be corporate espionage at worst and copyright/trademark infringement at best. But let's leave that aside and wonder why they weren't satisfied with grabbing and using Chromium, the open source project Chrome is largely based on. I'm certain they have the technical expertise to compile and create a distribution package. That shouldn't be a high hurdle to jump, so it come back to why?
This is a good point. I think the answer is obvious. There was never an intent to distribute this code outside of China. Hence, there were no worries about legal ramifications outside of China. The Chinese government views the use of "standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation" via direct copying and appropriating of technology as a tactic that furthers the national interest. It's not just that the Chinese government would refuse to prosecute such technology transfer that is illegal under Western laws, it openly supports, encourages, and through various Chinese laws mandates such transfers as the cost of doing business in China.
Also, if Google is willing to hold it's nose as it plays by Chinese rules in enforcing censorship and surveillance, it obviously wouldn't complain about this type of IP theft. I suppose in a sense, the Chinese government has effectively purchased a license to use this software, with payment rendered in the form of potential Chinese ad revenue.
True innovation is coming up with something that doesn't exist, isn't even an idea, and making it happen.
Ahh the no true Scotsman fallacy.
Improvement looks at what everyone else is doing and tries something different, while "standing on the shoulders of the giant". No original thought.
So you are saying Issac Newton didn't have an original thought. Might want to go back and revisit that line of logic. NOBODY has ideas that don't build on the work of others. If you think you are the only person to have an idea then you are delusional. If your standard for "true innovation" is a thought or product nobody else had considered previously then there is no such thing as "true innovation". Your argument is complete nonsense.
The reasons any tech is in China is for cheap labor and loose environmental standards
There are a LOT of reasons why a lot of electronics and other tech are made in China. You mentioned two factors but they aren't the only ones nor the most important ones in a lot of cases.
I've worked in tech and with the Chinese. We had to QC all of their work.
I've been to China, worked in global sourcing, and source products from there daily in my day job most of which are just fine. China produces massive amounts of high quality good and services. Yes there is some junk too but your sweeping claims about the quality of work from China is demonstrably false. Sounds like your company hired the wrong people or didn't have the experience to manage them properly. Happens to a lot of companies. Doesn't mean that everything from China is shit.
Apparently ripping off others work is 'innovation' these days. https://rendezvous.blogs.nytim... https://www.techinasia.com/chi... This is just another example.
"Governments have been dominated by the corporate entities and citizens have ceased to matter in public policy" true in
Wow, China ripping off everyone else and calling 'their innovation'? Nah, that's just crazy talk!
That is all.
Google can't make its flagship browser do what the CCP wants (aka spy even more than google does already).
So they gave them a version they can call their own.
Stupid round eyes will do anything for the Chinese market.
The shame of this is that there are some great minds in China who could probably develop a browser from scratch (with financial backing) but who are overshadowed by these plagiarists.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
for copying Chromium.
You don't even bother to use the free, open version of the browser that you can audit for security at any time and use freely without any danger of trade sanctions or trademark violations. If you don't do the work to learn even basic things, your rise to an economic superpower will be hollow and the economy in a constant danger of collapse.
Sort of like how American universities and institutes call their papers "American innovation", when the majority of them are written by guest researchers and foreign scientists, typically from Asia and Europe!
The American style of innovation has always been to let other people do the work (because you can't do it yourself) and then take the work and the credit.
And people from shithole 3rd world countries that manage somehow to get to come to an American university to get a real education, only to take all that back to their shithole 3rd world country don't get to be all butthurt about something they contributed a small part to being attributed to the university they went to. If you want the glory money and fame that comes with being an innovator then maybe you should have applied for citizenship, kept your American education here in America to benefit America, and by the way got much more money and a higher standard of living than in your shithole 3rd world home country.
How is taking MIT licensed code corporate espionage or copyright infringement? Are you high or something?
We can take your & call it our own, and there's nothing you can do about it.
You can license GPL-only, thus forcing them to release their sources. They won't do it anyways because it's China and they don't care, but if some day they want to expand into a civilized country, they'll have to abide.
Google does track everything you do, even after you "leave" the browser.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
China used an idea I implemented before 'em http://theregister.co.uk/2017/04/26/boffins_supercharge_the_hosts_file_to_save_users_plagued_by_dns_outages/ & "IMITATION's SINCEREST form of FLATTERY"
* Been doing it for YEARS before them via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux & BSD h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p OR via APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-1 32/64-bit for Windows https://www.google.com/search?...
APK
P.S.=> IMITATION = the sincerest form of FLATTERY - thanks China! apk
+1.
It would be stupid to write a browser without reusing some open-source code. Re-implementing the wheel is never a good idea and just asking for security issues.
However, it seems there is a disconnect between what they claim (fully homegrown) and what they do (start from chrome, at the point that they even forgot to remote some chrome licensed files).
Always funny to see the PR person respond to this by "but the users like it" which is the worst thing you can respond (because 1. it is not the question and 2. it's never true).
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"But this is not plagiarism; rather, we are standing on the shoulders of a giant for our own innovation," she added, according to local media reports. Ms Gao was also quoted as saying that the company had so far been doing very well in terms of customer satisfaction.
Also, the last bit about customer satisfaction? Is the article just weird about what questions were asked because that really feels like it came out of no where.
Reminds me a little bit of The Interview where Kim responds "Are you sure you don't mean to ask me about potato yields?"
If their innovation isn't American, why did they need to come here in order to do it? Why couldn't they innovate where they were before?
Maybe they weren't born American, and yet the work they do here in America is still American work. For an American university. And they were probably paid in American dollars.
No they didn't. This is just more wild speculation and bullshit from you. I guess that is all you have when you have been proven but be a lying retard. Provide actual evidence that the Chinese copied that simplistic and obvious idea from you instead of just providing wild speculation. Keep in mind this means you have to show evidence of a direct link between what they did and what you did. You implementing a stupid simple obvious idea before them is not evidence as it is more likely that they just came up with the same simple stupid obvious idea on their own. Besides the rest of what they are doing is nothing like your little garbage toy work. I guess you like it when people point out your failure like what happened here and what is happening now.
I am APK the great "LORD of HOSTS", a.k.a. AlecStaar from ArsTechnica or Alexander Peter Kowalski.
See subject & APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / I . a m . a . f u c k i n g / a s s h o l e . r e t a r d . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).
I am the godlike creator of various GUI front-ends for other people's configuration files.
Watch as I claim I win every argument when in reality I know I lost but that won't stop me from proclaiming my victory.
When presented with facts I rebut them with wild speculations, false support, and out of context quotes
All of my accomplishments revolve around me being proven to be an annoying spamming asshole
See me be proud of my inability to be a functional adult
Bask in my debilitating mental illness
Hear me tell stories about me living large drinking miller lite in my ramshackle duplex with a roommate at age 54.
Watch me spew some word salad because I can't string 2 words together in a coherent manner.
I just don't understand why every site I post on everyone makes fun of me, it can't be because I am a shit stick but instead because they are all Ne'er-do-well SOYboy Jealous JOWIEs.
Witness my descent into madness
APK
The Chinese government is one evil group of people. Can you imagine what would happen if they had more powerful technology than the USA? Oh, wait....
Who implemented it 1st? Me OR China?? I did & way, Way, WAY beforehand vs. China (I was 1st) you JEALOUS little "Jowie" do-nothing chump!
APK
P.S.=> Time tells all & in this case? It surely does with me PREDATING china by years in ME doing it FIRST... apk
f**king racist. If not America, all "shithole 3rd world" ? get out of your mom's base first, idiot
I see this as theft, not even clever theft.
But many innovators are, by necessity, standing on their predecessors shoulders.
To integrate you often need to know how other products work.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Go well
You just can't stop lying you sack of shit.
Your doing it here now, and you did it here:
I don't threaten vs. a NOBODY
So shut your fucking pie hole you lying sack of shit.
You threaten people all the time and when called on it you hide in the fucking corner and piss yourself.
So come on pussycake post your fucking address
Shut up APK.
Everyone knows it is you, you fucking lying sack of shit.
You got call out and now you are pissing yourself and hiding.
If you're not APK then you are even fucking dumber than that shit stain because his ass gets destroyed all the time.
I had heard that was sorta a backhand slap to steinmetz when it was first used. Given his personality I assume it was more in good humor than not.
yep... an entire nation of assholes. Guess the competition is too great there.
China doin what they do best.
they left to innvoate in their home country because America is the shithole country right now. LOL.
In the thread: mad white neckbeards
Isn't that cute the lying sack of shit known as APK is hiding some more.
Must be too scared to actually sign his posts and instead pissed himself in the corner.
So come on pussycake post your fucking address.
Keep hiding there shit head APK
Everyone knows it is you, you fucking lying sack of shit.
You got call out and now you are pissing yourself and hiding.
So come on pussycake post your fucking address.
Odd ... wasn't all the source code available at one point for Firefox or its predecessor anyway?
Understood, you are a retard and can't backup your assertion. Keep on proving to everyone that you are a retard there APK. It is a stupid, simplistic, and obvious idea and you have no real actual evidence that supports your off base speculation. You can't provide evidence because there isn't any and the truth is that the Chinese independently came up with the same stupid simplistic obvious solution as you did. Keep on telling your self that you aren't a loser even if you do keep piling up the losses.
Maybe you can find some out of context quotes from slashdot users that you can use to try and make your point or call me more stupid names because that is a sure sign that you are winning.
Is this how "Homegrown" is defined in China, by this company? Take an existing browser and modify it?
Here's a modest proposal. If you want "Homegrown" products, maybe create them yourselves. At home, with the act of growing.
I get the merits of beginning with a usable code base and branching out from there. However it's not entirely honest to claim that as "Homegrown", it's a value-added situation (and that assumes that value is actually being added).
See subject: Dates are my proof! I've done hardcoded favs in hosts avoiding DNS down/redirect poisoned since 1994 & prove it in my program since 2001 in its 1st release.
* YOU LOSE!
APK
P.S.=> Thanks CHINA: Imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery & even NATIONS imitate "Lil' Ole' Me" (not you, loser - lol! Your JEALOUS is SHOWING "Lil' Jowie")... apk
So you admit you have no proof and are just making shit up like the retard you are. How about you stop stating that the Chinese copied your retarded ass until you find some actual proof that supports your claim that the Chinese copied an obscure spamming nobody has-been who never was instead of independently coming up with the same stupid simplistic obvious idea. Apart from the favorites list what the Chinese are doing functions nothing like your garbage work but you would know that if you could actually read and had read that article. If you went into any court and made that argument they would laugh you out so fast you would think you hadn't filed the paperwork yet.
I get it you were caught in a lie years ago and are so full of yourself that you have to try and keep the lie alive even if it is only in your mind. It must be hard having staked your entire reputation on false security claims that have been disproven time and time again but you really should give it up.
We are done here as you have nothing and admitted it.
See subject: Dates are my proof! I've done hardcoded favs in hosts avoiding DNS down/redirect poisoned since 1994 & prove it in my program since 2001 in its 1st release.
* YOU LOSE!
Thanks CHINA: Imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery & even NATIONS imitate "Lil' Ole' Me" (not you, loser - lol! Your JEALOUS is SHOWING "Lil' Jowie" - it's NOT MY FAULT you are a "ne'er-do-well" DO NOTHING w/ no skills like I possess & demonstrate + users say so https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... , lol - it's YOUR OWN FAULT for WASTING your wasted life...!)
100,000++ users of my program also say so in MY favor (not yours, Mr. do-nothing mere TALKER blowhard, lol).
APK
P.S.=> What "lie" was I "caught in years ago" LIAR projecting what YOU do yourself as you HIDE from me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous STALKING of me (which speaks WORLDS of your LACK of CHARACTER)... apk
More proof CHINA steals too (industrial & military espionage of U.S.A.'s intellectual properties etc.) + date in my favor https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...
* I don't NEED any more proof than THAT of "how China operates" chump!
(EVERYONE KNOWS IT)
APK
P.S.=> Funniest part is, I used to RESPECT China (as an enemy I do though - I never make THAT mistake on those grounds) HOWEVER: I no longer do - I don't respect those that CAN'T invent things on their own & STEAL rampantly but CHINA does DEMONSTRATE INTELLIGENCE - COPYING MY IDEAS I IMPLEMENTED A DECADE++ BEFORE THEM (see link above) - IMITATION truly IS the SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY (especially by a nation copying me)... apk