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Trump Ups Ante on China, Threatens Duties on Nearly All its Imports (reuters.com)
U.S. President Donald Trump warned on Friday that he was ready to slap tariffs on virtually all Chinese imports into the United States, threatening duties on another $267 billion in Chinese goods on top of $200 billion in imports now primed for levies in coming days. Reuters: The moves would sharply escalate Trump's trade war with Beijing over his demands for major changes in economic, trade and technology policy. China has threatened retaliation, which could include action against U.S. companies operating there. Hours after a public comment period closed on his $200 billion China tariff list, Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One that he was "being strong on China because I have to be."
"The $200 billion we are talking about could take place very soon depending on what happens with them. To a certain extent its going to be up to China," Trump said. "And I hate to say this, but behind that is another $267 billion ready to go on short notice if I want. That totally changes the equation." [...] The $200 billion list, which includes some consumer products such as cameras and recording devices, luggage, handbags, tires and vacuum cleaners, would be subject to tariffs of 10 percent to 25 percent. Cell phones, the biggest U.S. import from China, have so far been spared, but would be engulfed if Trump activates the $267 billion tariff list. Further reading: Apple says Trump's China tariffs are going to hurt the company.
"The $200 billion we are talking about could take place very soon depending on what happens with them. To a certain extent its going to be up to China," Trump said. "And I hate to say this, but behind that is another $267 billion ready to go on short notice if I want. That totally changes the equation." [...] The $200 billion list, which includes some consumer products such as cameras and recording devices, luggage, handbags, tires and vacuum cleaners, would be subject to tariffs of 10 percent to 25 percent. Cell phones, the biggest U.S. import from China, have so far been spared, but would be engulfed if Trump activates the $267 billion tariff list. Further reading: Apple says Trump's China tariffs are going to hurt the company.
Trump then went on to mispronounce the word "anonymous" multiple times and walked off stage.
I don't know about the rest of /. but my wages have not kept pace with inflation. Cheap foreign goods has been the only thing that's kept my head above water. Now, you can argue that my wages will start climbing as a result of this, but a) that's not going to happen right away and in the meantime it means big inflation I can ill afford and b) it's not likely to happen since even if the factories come back they're likely to be modern factories heavy on automation, meaning few jobs.
Tariffs are good at protecting an existing business, but you have to have a business to protect for a tariff to work. The US has manufacturing and we were already doing a good job of protecting it. We've doubled out manufacturing output in the last 40 years (while cutting the workforce by 1/3 due to automation, I might add). Broad tariffs at this point are just closing the barn door after the cows got out.
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Trump's not going to do shit about China. They're laughing at him and they know all they've got to do is wait now. It won't be long.
Plus, any further tariffs will be written on one of those pieces of paper his staff has been snatching off his desk to keep him from fucking up completely.
You are welcome on my lawn.
So much economic stupidity. At least he gave tax breaks to businesses and bailed out the industries he's nearly killed as he taxed the hell out of their supply chain.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Isn't it time to look at a different tool for changing the relationship between the US and China? I can't imagine this hurting anybody but the US consumer - AND I suspect that it could be a boon for other countries looking for lower cost goods for their economies.
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
They know they need their largest market of consumers for cheaply made crap.
You watch. If you can see thru your TDS that is.
You should get that treated. It's going to kill you.
I'm fine with buying less shit from China, or paying more for what I actually do need to buy (from elsewhere or from China when necessary).
It ultimately means China gets less of US money. A lot less. It's China who loses here, not the US. The US is hundreds of billions in trade deficit to China. China has far, far more to lose in this game of chicken.
China can end it all now if they just agree to one simple thing. Fair trade. If China doesn't like the tariffs and restrictions they can get rid of the same exact tariffs and restrictions they impose on us, and poof, we reciprocate.
Trump only knows one thing: how to make threats until he gets what he wants. That childish behavior works really well against your parents and your sycophant "friends" but it's not a great strategy to use on the world stage. The previous tariffs are being blamed for the increased trade deficit this quarter and these additional tariffs will likely make that worse. It's like Trump is determined to erase any gains he can attempt to take credit for with the improved economy. Maybe the writer of the NYT op-ed can sabotage these tariffs.
"The sudden loss of access to previously affordable goods will encourage workers to be more passionate about their career. This will spur the economy further and reduce the gap between the rich and the poor." - government analyst probably.
Fear mongering by the Fake News.
Tariffs are costly in the short term because US citizens will have to pay many of them until alternative sources are available.
That's fine, us citizens just received a massive tax cut. Oh wait...
Why is this being framed as an economic issue, at all?
The fucking point is to pressure them into treating their people better, not to affect the US markets.
Since we're clearly not doing that, the rest is just theatre.
Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
"Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
Trump's not going to do shit about China. They're laughing at him and they know all they've got to do is wait now. It won't be long.
Plus, any further tariffs will be written on one of those pieces of paper his staff has been snatching off his desk to keep him from fucking up completely.
People who can read minds and predict the future belong on late night cable TV shows, 900 number call-ins on billboards, and newspaper horoscopes.
Alternative link for Canadians and Brits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
And if thats TLDW for you, at least watch from 14:54 to see how Trump got his Trade with China expert.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Isn't it time to look at a different tool for changing the relationship between the US and China? I can't imagine this hurting anybody but the US consumer - AND I suspect that it could be a boon for other countries looking for lower cost goods for their economies.
No offense, but Trump's tactics *are* the different tool.
Or would you rather go back to giving away our wealth to everyone and anyone worldwide?
I import various parts from China. One that was affected in the first round of tariffs this year were ball bearings. I import these because I do the product assembly in the USA. I have gotten quotes for similar bearings from US manufacturers and they were 8x the cost of similar bearings from China so going with US suppliers isn't an option.
The crazy thing is if I had my product assembled in China then I wouldn't need to pay the tariffs today. Anyways I have had to raise my prices by 5% to handle the cost of these tariffs and seems likely I'll be raising my prices more just to cover my increased costs.
It's been stated by the US government that you can apply for exemptions from tariffs. I'm not sure how likely it is big companies will do this, but I know for small businesses that isn't an option unless it gets very simple which would eliminate the whole purpose of the tariffs.
I don't really care whose fault any of this mess is, but I think we should acknowledge it's a mess and work towards free trade. That just doesn't seem to be the direction we are headed today.
So assuming all the tariffs are enacted, where is the 467 billion spent? Because if you say to support K-12 education, SS, or the environment then great, if you say to buy more billion dollar warplanes and to start a star wars program, then FU.
If you want people to look at the government report, link to the government report, not fucking Breitbart.
I suggest you read this article if you think wages are outpacing inflation.
If you completely surround an enemy, his soldiers will fight bravely. If you leave them a path to escape, they will run away.
This is actually a pretty good time to put some trade pressure on China. They've reached the end of an era of explosive growth and the transition to something more sustainable is bound to put pressure on them. A trade war can really hurt them right now (as it can hurt us as well).
This is a time to have your exit strategy worked out. If we have a shrewd and accurate idea of what we can feasibly walk away with, we could do quite well out of a little trade saber rattling. The thing is if we don't have an exit strategy, we can hurt our own economy and give the Chinese regime a legitimate scapegoat for its own problems.
So this is a test of the president's acumen. Does he have the brains to know when to walk away from a conflict?
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So here's a little reality check for you ... the rest of the world is losing patience with your President, and losing any feelings of friendship towards the US. We can no longer separate your asshole president from your idiot citizens who parrot the dumb shit he says.
I hear what you're saying - you would like your country to pay for your defense from Russia.
I think we can arrange that.
Real friends don't leech off of others, they abide by their obligations.
We're only making the tariffs fair and even. Trump has said repeatedly that he would welcome getting rid of all tariffs on both sides. He's said that directly to Merkel, using those exact words. Her response was to laugh.
Eliminating all tariffs seems fair.
Do you have a problem with fair?
Just because we're having unexpectedly bigger than expected pay increases doesn't mean everyone is helped. Only the average is helped. Overall, most people have had their lives destroyed by Trump and now make less. I know my life is shit now that Trump has hurt the tech industry, and it's hard to find a job. My of my friends with CS degrees have lost their jobs under Trump. So fewer people are driving to jobs now that traffic is less worse in the Bay Area.
Out of curiosity, what's the difference between average and overall?
Can you reconcile "most people have had their lives destroyed" and "fewer people are driving to jobs..." with a steady unemployment rate of 3.8%?
I can reconcile those claims in three words:
Trump Derangement Syndrome
Trump believers think they're winning, even though they're losing. This is one sign of cultism.
If *I* want.
Not advisers, not the american people, I.
"*I* am the state"
me me me, I I I. He has all the situational awareness of a toddler.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
This is largely bullshit. They certainly INVOKED the spectre of national defense, but the steel and aluminum tariffs are being applied on all steel and aluminum, not just stuff used for defense. And the tariffs even apply to countries like Canada, who aren't shipping sub-standard metals. If the goal was to curb dumping of low-grade metals onto the market, it's not doing its job. The number of American companies applying for exemptions from this absurd tax is orders of magnitude higher than what the government was prepared to deal with. In many cases, US companies literally can't get the steel they need from ANY American provider. How is THAT good for anyone, let alone national defense?
If you enjoyed that joke, check this one out. The EPA quickly took it down as they found it quite embarrassing.
As reported by Vox:
“[The new fuel efficiency proposal] is anticipated to prevent thousands of on-road fatalities and injuries as compared to the standards set forth in the 2012 final rule,” the EPA wrote in a press release about the announcement. The EPA said the proposed changes would save 1,000 lives per year.
Two companies that don't even need to appear before Congress because they are mostly Chinese owned now getting a dose of ethical edification. Perfectly fine with Korean, Japanese, and Taiwanese products.
I wonder if WTO will survive that moves between US and China. Its rules were already seen as unfair by many poor countries, and now everyone sees they do not apply to big players.
is from a tax cut for the rich. We literally just borrowed $1 trillion from China to give it to around 30,000 people...
It's not Keyesian because none of it is trickling down. Keyesian is demand side economics. What we've been doing is good 'ole fashion voodoo economics...
It's already biting us in the ass. Putting that much money in the economy with none of it making it to working class Americans is causing the supply side to over-rev. They've got too much money and not enough to do with it. Eventually they'll fuck up and cause a crash + recession. To counter that the Fed is going to use the only tool they have: Interest rates. They'll raise interest rates to slow down the economy, but that'll hit working class Americans hard in the form of inflation...
Thing is, it'll be 8 years before the damage shows up. By then we'll have another Democrat in charge who'll clean up as much of the mess as he/she can and they'll take the blame for the bad economy. Look at Bush Jr's poll numbers. He's recovered completely and people like him now...
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there was an interview with Ed McMahon where he talked about a Trump "negotiation" session. By the time Trump was done negotiating he'd given McMahon everything and got nothing in return.
Trump went bankrupt for real several times. His banks wanted to try and recover as much as they could and Trump had a well known name & brand so they let him keep some money and go on playing the part of the rich man so they could try and use his brand to bilk people out of money. Worked too. But that wasn't Trump's idea, and the banks told him exactly what to do and when to do it.
When that dried up he started relying on his Russian connections. Trump's neck deep with their mob and oligarchs. That's why he couldn't release his taxes. If you wanna see some fun times vote Democrat for the House in 2018 and watch as they subpoena his tax returns.
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In August, average hourly earnings for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls rose by 10 cents to $27.16. Over the year, average hourly earnings have increased by 77 cents, or 2.9 percent. Average hourly earnings of private-sector production and nonsupervisory employees increased by 7 cents to $22.73 in August. (See tables B-3 and B-8.)
So, I guess unless you're a management type that inflation rate of 2.9%--the highest level since 2012--is probably going to hurt a bit. Given that this next round will effectively hit everything on the shelves of Walmart, things might get rather uncomfortable indeed for his voting base.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
A helicopter parent sounds like it wasn't an easy birth.
and those went into effect. Trump has moved the overton window even further into the right. In America very few people vote consistently. About 20% in a mid term and 40% in a presidential election. About half of those people are hanging on Trump's every word. Yes, there are adults in the room, but they're terrified that overgrown toddler is going to turn on them in a primary or even a general election.
And remember, the Republican party has very, very few people who genuinely care about the country. Even fewer than the Democrats. I think McCain was an asshat but I also think he cared about America. For most of those guys as long as their donation checks keep coming in and they can secure a cushy job after retiring they couldn't care less what happens to the country.
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On a side note, for those of you who are technical analysis style investors, you might notice that a most interesting chart pattern has been forming on the US inflation rate over the last few years.
Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once
was that we've doubled manufacturing while cutting the workforce by 1/3.
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The rotor unfolds after birth. Miracle of nature.
Seriously, trump has screwed things up all around. This is one area, where at least he is keeping his promise to address this. W/O promised that they would get China to honor their treaties and WTO as well, but did nothing.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Wages have been slow to adjust, but a recent report shows wage growth(*) at 2.9% last month (monthly increase, annualized for a year), which is higher than inflation. Unemployment is at about 2.9% and steady.
(*)Yes, Breitbart.com, which always lies and never tells the truth and are a bunch of poo-poo heads that should be banned. Now dispute the actual numbers and the government report like an adult, or GTFO.
You know, like a stopped clock, Breitbart just might be right now and then. And in this case, it appears they are.
But I mean, c'mon. Breitbart? Their reputation is well-known. If you want to be taken seriously, provide some links to other sources, assuming you read any.
Don't forget that the economy, from the point of view of the *people*, only started to get better about October of last year. Looking at the DJIA (or other leading indicators) shows we were out of the woods and back to health in 2013.
Repeat after me:
The stock market is not the economy. The economy is not the stock market.
The stock market is not the economy. The economy is not the stock market.
The stock market is not the economy. The economy is not the stock market.
[...]
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Can somebody translate that into a language that actually has complete sentences, with capitalization and punctuation?
Geez, you guys won't be happy until the entire world hates you. I think maybe it's time to roll back those copyright extensions that the US foisted on us to protect US companies like Disney.
Tariffs are a regressive tax on US consumers, so the Republicans have cut taxes for the wealthy, and are about to increase the tax burden of everyone else. Got it.
Yeah,like the 1 million innocent Iraqis we murdered when we knew the WMD bullshit wasn't true died "unhated".
Grow up, America has been hating for a LONNNNOGGGGG time.
Steel and aluminum were national security issues.
No they weren't. Steel and aluminium were DECLARED national security risks to get around the fact that this tariff would never have made it through his own government otherwise and this stupidity needed to be exempt from any other treaties and from challenge by the WTO which doesn't think very highly of the idea.
If supply of materials is a national security issue for defence the answer isn't to apply tariffs on the entire industry but rather to produced fixed contracts of supply to keep your critical suppliers open and in house. The interests of national security could easily have been achieved without every person in America paying more for metal in completely un-national-security related products.
Also, it's not hard to google the effect of steel and aluminum tariffs, and it's universally lauded in the cities where the foundries are.
No shit Sherlock. Here have $20. Are you going to complain I gave you $20? Meanwhile in every other city of America where the foundries' customers are they are universally criticised.
He also hasn't "tanked" anything - I don't know if you've noticed, but the economy is doing great.
Your ignorance on the international economy is to be lauded, and then laughed at. You're right, the GP hasn't noticed that the international economy is doing great. He won't either since that is just Trump level wishful thinking. Economies are performing under expectations on every continent of the world (except Antarctica).
Normalizing tariffs, bringing the tariffs into parity with those of other nations, is a step towards free trade.
Never go full retard man.
Then maybe we need to start new American providers? Thus creating good lives for our people, and a secure source of steel for generations to come? Seriously, can people not see second-order consequences? A tremendous demand has just been created for American-made steel. Is this not what the US government is supposed to do? Give us an advantage and take care of our own?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
But trade deficits aren't inherently bad... a trade deficit in the right circumstances can be very good...
for some people.
A trade deficit with China is very good for the people of China who get jobs from making goods. The trade deficit is very good for corporations and wealthy Americans who take those goods and sell them to Americans.
However, the trade deficit is very bad for average Americans who get neither of those advantages.
China has already put major tariffs on all imports from America. Now they are threatening the American companies that operate there. Right there, is the reason why America, and even the entire west, should pull out of China. Yes, China is 1/6 of the population, but far better to work with other nations and bring them up than to go down this route.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Trump should not have fucked with trade dealing with Europe, nafta, and Latin America. However, all of these nations, combined with America, japan, and South Korea, manufacturer just about everything China does. As such, we can, and should, drop Chinese imports and instead switch back. Inflation may hit a bit, but far more likely, robotics will be used.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Did you forget that protectionism hadn't worked before? Did you forget the 70s?
There's no reason China can't just shovel the goods through some other East Asian country for a smaller fee than the tariffs cost and lie about the origin of the goods. Oh, see, this was "made in Thailand" so it's not Chinese, so no tariff. The problem with a trade war like this is that if China rebadges the origin of goods and the US doesn't, the US is guaranteed to lose. They already manipulated the snot out of their currency to pilfer the US infrastructure, so it would be zero surprise if they got around the tariffs this way. Ironically, shady stuff like that is what the tariffs are supposed to punish in the first place.
The Trade deficit means the Chinese businessman have a ton of dollars and they use it to buy property on th coasts driving cost of living up in Democrat areas while it also means cheap stuff is available in middle America driving cost of living low in Trump country.
Lets close the trade deficit. Than finally I will be able to buy something in the Bay Area and middle America can get off its ass and work for a living.
**Life is too short to be serious**
A bully is really a coward at heart so why does this surprise you?
**Life is too short to be serious**
Well now you're just being Xenophobic, we great privileged Americans need to help all other nations in the world no matter the consequence long or short term! /s(I think that's how this works?)
From Common man perspective China is offering Inexpensive and High Quality Products;
Casteism
"And I hate to say this, but behind that is another $267 billion ready to go on short notice if I want. That totally changes the equation."
"If I want."
Not if it makes sense. Not if it's in our best interest. Trumplethinskin just wants everyone to know how big and bad he is. Poor guy :(
Your mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's been opened.