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Gunman Shoots 4 at Middleton Software Company; Dies in Shootout With Police (madison.com)
Several Slashdot readers shared this report overnight: A gunman shot four people, none fatally, at his Middleton, Wisconsin workplace Wednesday morning before he was killed in a shootout with police, Middleton Police Chief Charles Foulke said. Authorities had not released the man's name or age, but police said he was from Madison and worked at WTS Paradigm, a software company at 1850 Deming Way where the shooting occurred. Police said a motive for the shooting was not yet known. Foulke said the shooter had been in the building before he began shooting at fellow employees around 10:29 a.m. One of the four people injured was just grazed by a bullet police say was fired from a handgun. Citing UW Health, a local NBC affiliate reported that two victims are in serious condition and one is in critical condition. "In a situation like this, you learn how great a community really is," WTS Marketing Manager Ryan Mayrand said. "We cannot thank the Middleton Police Department, the Dane County Sheriff's Office and other emergency personnel enough for their amazing response."
CoCs kill.
What does this have to do with tech news?
What was WTS Paradigm's policy on carrying while at work? I'll venture a guess that this is one of these 'gun free' zones.
Have gnu, will travel.
Yup, four shot. Horrible. If four people had been stabbed, or four run over with a truck, that is OK somehow.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
As a nerd, I don't find this newsworthy. Did Elon Musk take the day off or something?
Vi is better than Emacs. There will not be any more arguments about this...
There's likely to be a ton of towns called Middleton in the US and the main story links to local paper and even TFA doesn't say which Middleton. It was only looking at the banner of the TFA that I saw it was Wisconsin.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
no one died??? why is this even being reported then? wtf.
so there was no one to hate today ....
Good news, everyone! We already have a "code of conduct" of sorts for this. They're these new fangled things called "laws". And just like a "code of conduct", they're not meant to magically stop all bad behavior. They are put in place to discourage bad behavior and establish a punishment if they are violated.
The gun made him do it.
We say gunperson now, you sexist pig.
Women can shoot up places, just ask YouTube.
Captcha: concede
One of the standard employee contract clause is banning guns at company property. It's there to limit liability to the company in events like this and doesn't deter possession unless the carrier is an idiot. I've been carrying Glock 43 for years and non of my co-workers are non the wiser. You are personally responsible for your own safety. Society and laws are there to remediate after the crime has been committed. Police catch criminals after the fact and aren't there to protect you.
(September, 7th) . -------SEPTEMBER 7th!!! Cons Work environment is so bad you literally might be shot by a co-worker September 7th Although most people can take it. Somebody is going to have mental trouble in life. Now enter the following "No one cares if you have too much work. People and projects are dollar signs and that’s it. Success is measured by profit earned, not on positive customer relationships. Expect to work nights and weekends, and stress about the bottom line in every situation. Cliquey environment allows management to run the board. Advice to Management Billable time and moving too fast doesn’t allow for employees to focus on the customer - and customers are noticing." September 7th CEO has history of verbally abusing employees including personal attacks and swear words. Also stokes his ego by belittling employees in front of customers. Also attacks customers behind their backs, attacking their intelligence, physical appearance or their company in general. Unethical behaviours any time money is involved: bill customers when they shouldn't, screw employees out of quarterly bonuses, and
I will not disclose a 0 day again I will not disclose a 0 day again I will not disclose a 0 day again I will not disc
I learned about this when my mom texted me to let me know that she and my dad were both safe, her being out of town, dad being at home and hearing but not thinking much about the sirens down the way. My nephew's school was still on lockdown (despite it being miles away, better safe than sorry, I suppose.)
My parents live right near this place. They ride their bikes past it regularly. Middleton ain't a big place.
I can't decide if I'm relieved, livid, or just numb to it. Probably a bit of all three.
All you folks who get red in the face at the thought that maybe, just maybe, we could stand to have fewer guns in this country:
Eventually, there'll be too many people with a personal stake in this for you to beat.
Even if you decide to 'exercise your second amendment rights.'
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
SO THAT'S WHAT IN MEANS!
Actually, could we get a cheat sheet with 10 easy to remember rules? Write it in stone too, so people know they're not up for negotiation. I'd split it into 2 tablets to make it easier to carry down the mountain.
Lastly, we'll need a sacrifical lamb, of sorts. He'd have to be a really good guy. Someone who wants to help but says things not politically correct. If we could then figuratively crucify him in the court of public opinion, maybe then we could wake up as a society.
Not sure if this has ever been tried before, but it might work.
The shooting will put a damper on the company's four-day conference for next week.
Our office, 15-20 people midwest, we have the OWNER that carries and probably 4-5 people that carry. We are all 2nd amendment promoters and believe everyone that is responsible and has the legal right to carry, should be permitted to do so. These "gun free" zones are just like dangling a worm on a hook, near a fish.
Since you're like the 5th person making fun of some sort of "code of conduct"... what the fuck is this? Do we now need to be told how to behave at work? So far we got along with simple courtesy just fine.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
BTW: Where the f*cc is Middleton? The only one I know is a couple miles East of Banbury, in Northamptonshire.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Ahh, so San Bernardino, Orlando, Rothschild, San Francisco, Fort Lauderdale, the Bronx, Antioch, and many more were all angry white alt-right guys? Thanks! Wasn't aware of that... Maybe I should ask you about the dozens of mass shootings in Chicago every year, alt-right angry white guys too?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I've been carrying Glock 43 for years and non of my co-workers are non the wiser.
Following the logic of your statement, everyone knew you had a gun.
Wait... the draw Mohammad shooters... and the san Bernardino shooters... were white alt-righters?
Man, Steve Scalise must feel pretty bad, knowing that he was shot by someone (vaugly) on his half of the isle.
It's as of... you are full of shit.
I can keep from getting stabbed by staying slightly more than arms-length away a potential attacker. To keep from getting shot, I need a flak jacket and even then there's still the possibility of a head shot. I'd rather take my chances with a knife.
More likely his project was canceled.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Yeah, that's why there's so many more mass shootings in Israel.
Oh... wait a second...
My guess is that it's in the state of Wisconsin, USA.
Hey, they want shootings. Shootings are constitutionally protected in the US.
Or life just became too drab to bear, and he ran out of Middleton dreams.
The office door closed early
The hidden bottle came out
The salesman turned to close the blinds
A little slow now, a little stout
But he's still heading down those tracks
Any day now for sure
Another day as drab as today
Is more than a man can endure
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
BTW: Where the f*cc is Middleton?
Wisconsin. It is a suburb of Madison, and about 5 km from the University of Wisconsin.
It is somewhat more difficult to stab someone to death, not to mention drive a truck in an office building.
Stabbing to death is difficult? Why do the police have the 21 foot rule for knives then?
And again a crazy gun nut build strawmen because he has no real argument against gun control.
But hey, let us keep the status quo because it seems to work so well for you. /sarcasm
Asswipe, if everybody here had guns, there'd have been fewer casualties. Now go turn in anything you might conceivably defend yourself with... not to make a [likely much-needed] point... but because your implied claim that your fellow humans can't be trusted to defend themselves... reveals far more about you... than you're remotely sane or intelligent enough to realize.
Check out the company on Glassdoor
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/WTS-Paradigm-Reviews-E349419.htm
Please explain to me how somebody stabbed to death or killed with a truck is less dead than somebody shot to death.
I will wait.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
It is somewhat more difficult to stab someone to death, not to mention drive a truck in an office building.
Someone failed biology and physics.
Normally, a truck can only destroy the first floor of a building, but if you hit a critical support pillar with enough kinetic energy, a whole lot more people will suffer.
As for stabbing, the wound profile of a kitchen knife is more damaging than most bullets. Large-diameter soft-material rounds can cause more severe wounds, but they also require larger-bore firearms to use and take much more energy to fire (rough recoil).
You have been watching too many movies if you think it would be necessary to drive a truck into the building. They do that for dramatic effect fuckwit.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Speaking of guns and nerds, I notice that Cody Wilson, the patriotic American who owns Defense Distributed and felt he just had to release the plans for a 3D-printed gun, was charged with sexually assaulting an underage girl he met online, and he's now fled to Taiwan.
Is anyone surprised? "Gun enthusiast" and "kiddie-fucker" are the last two boxes on right-wing jackoff bingo.
#FollowTheWhiteRabbit
You are welcome on my lawn.
So did a google search to see if i knew the company, clicked thru on glassdoor....scrolled down to see posting from 9/19
"Terrible"
Former Employee - Anonymous Employee
Doesn't Recommend
Negative Outlook
Disapproves of CEO
I worked at WTS Paradigm full-time
Pros
No positives I can think of.
Cons
Work environment is so bad you literally might be shot by a co-worker
Nope. He is a Linux contributer who just realized the LMKL is about to get a lot more stupid now that Linus is talking about not calling out incompetence.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Do you normally carry a gun to work?
If yes perhaps you could also tell us the line of work.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I wanted to know exactly that, but it turns out that the link leads to brain-dead idiots who cannot be arsed to refrain from stuffing your browser full of third-party beacons and tracker cookies and whateverthefuck else then whoring out the data to just everyone, so they'll just paint themselves idiots by dint of a http error code.
"GDPR"blocking for a news site. So serving up a bit of text without privacy-raping the visitor is too much to ask, eh?
I love that I got modded down to 0, Troll. There is clearly nothing Trollish about my post; no insults, harassment, or any other quality one associates with trolls. All I do is point out an easily verifiable fact in the context of showing that guns don't make us any safer.
It's really just a massive show of weakness on the part of those modding me down.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
If it wasn't a gun-free zone, the shooting might have been much worse. Imagine people blasting away at each other across cubicles, not knowing who the shooter is or where he is.
Remember that gun-free zone is not the same thing as security-free zone. Schools, malls, etc. still have armed security.
It's one of Madison, Wisconsin's three big "white flight" suburbs that have really expanded as Madison's demographics have shifted over the past twenty years (the two others are Fitchburg and Sun Prairie). The shooting happened at a string of offices just outside Madison city limits. Oddly enough, Middleton is the most techie of the three suburbs (odd because it's absolutely the farthest of any of them from the airport).
Funny. I've been around guns for decades.
I've had exactly zero shootings.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
You've been watching Maximum Overdrive too much (once at all will do it), if you think truck-based violence is a significant consideration
If anything, vehicular accidents are more of a concern, and fortunately, a solution to that is quick and easy. Relatively speaking.
Find something real to deal with like I don't know, the New York Yankees.
Yes, LynnwoodRooster, Hispanics can count as whites, and be right-wing nutjobs.
Now if you want to say that being a diagnosed schizophrenic overruled any political beliefs, that's fine, but so what?
Which is counter to normal firearm safety practices.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
It is easier to pull the fire alarm and drive the truck through the crowds in the parking lot. Even easier to pull the fire alarm and shoot at everyone outside. Most shooters are targeting specific people they knew or had interactions with. The problem is social support and the lack of respect for other people, not gun availability. That group of kids watching a guy drown and taking pictures of him instead of calling for help is the problem.
A stabbing attack can be more effective with a little training since if you do it right no one will hear anything. You could hide in a room and kill everyone who enters. But again, a little practice/training goes a long way. Most of the killers don't bother. They aren't trying to kill as many people as possible. They are trying to vent their frustration was as much power behind it as they can.
Could be a case of workplace pranking .... not so long ago, the workplace I was in had a deaf guy who thought it was hilarious that he could make people jump in their chairs by pointing a squeaky toy at them and squeezing it. Of course, he always made sure nobody else was looking around at the time, so nobody knew it was deliberate. The cover story was that it was a tradition.
It so happened I was assigned a complex task that requires deep concentration, so I would wear headphones. Each and every time I tried to start this task, it wasn't more than 10 minutes in, that this toy would be squeezed. Every day. Any time. That ****** toy would be squeezed. For about a week I never got any work done. Then my team leader and project manager were giving me grief at standup meetings. I'm getting ready to beat up whoever it is with a baseball bat.
I set up a webcam to see what was going on behind my back. I could see the little **** look at me, looking around, reach for the toy and squeeze it, then go back to work as if nothing had happened. So then I started to confront him each time. First time I catch him he makes a face. Next time, he waggles his finger at me. Then it's his mate. By Friday, I get a confession "When I sees someone sitting still, I thinks they are asleep, so I gets the squeaky toy and gives it a big squeeze."
Gave me a DVT and arterial ulcer. Got workers compensation.
Yup, four shot. Horrible. If four people had been stabbed, or four run over with a truck, that is OK somehow.
It's a lot harder to mass murder someone in one go with a knife or a truck than with a gun. You risk immediate injury to yourself and are more likely to fail. Guns are much better murder weapons- that's why people don't warn you about taking a gun to a knife fight.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
But against unarmed victims, they all work great. Nice, France: 86 killed with a truck. Manchester, England: 20 killed with a homemade bomb.
But those are OK because nobody used a gun, right?
London is cracking down on KNIFE ownership. You ban the guns but still allow criminals to walk the streets? They don't join a quilting circle: they use a different weapon. The homicide rate in London recently topped that of New York City. So, clearly they need to ban another weapon instead of actually doing anything about the criminals.
Get rid of the weapon, and you still have dangerous criminals.
Get rid of the criminals, and the weapons don't matter.
https://www.met.police.uk/Stop...
Funny how the most armed country in the world still has a relatively low homicide rate. There are plenty of countries with very strict gun laws that have a much higher homicide rate. Even in this country, try doing a scatter plot of gun ownership percentage compared to homicide rate. Yeah, there is not much of a correlation, but the general (weak) trend is more guns == less murder. The most likely explanation is that, as the homicide rate rises, more gun laws are enacted that prove ineffective, thus lowering the gun ownership rate, but doing nothing to save lives.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Why is someone who you disagree with a "nut"?
How is it a strawman? Dead is dead.
He's not arguing against gun control. Gun Control is a dead issue.
Anyone pushing revision of the 2nd Amendment has their career destroyed.
Additionally, we have the ability to 3d print firearms. Sure, they're primitive and mostly useless.
But their very existence is the death knell of the Gun Control issue.
And sorry if the availability of legal firearms offends you.
It has exactly JACK SHIT to do with most shootings, which are overwhelmingly committed with illegally obtained firearms.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Exactly.
And none of those people are any more dead than somebody hugging plutonium.
Actually, the percentage of US households owning guns has actually dropped significantly since the 1970s, largely reflecting a historic decline in hunting. Overall the rate of gun homicide has also dropped since the 1970s. But the size of gun collections has skyrocketed, particularly after Obama was elected, so now there's more guns in America than people. Half those guns are owned by 3% of the population.
Like many real-world scenarios, when you look into it the American gun situation is complex, far more complex than the rhetoric from either side of the gun control debate admits. Both sides implicitly agree that the biggest factor in the rate of shootings is the number of guns on the street, they just disagree on the direction of the effect. In fact there is little evidence to support either position.
Given that, I am inclined to regard the sheer number of guns Americans own as neither here nor there, although the size, nature, and sometimes insecure storage of personal arsenals probably has had an effect on the rise of mass shootings on a horrific scale. That's not in the least mathematically inconsistent with the overall rate of shootings dropping.
In any case, I am doubtful that this particular mass shootings has anything definitive to say about the gun control debate or the state of American society as a whole. The scale of the shooting is feasible with the kinds of weapons people typically owned fifty years ago, and the gunman has no criminal record, so no state has any kind of gun control laws that would have prevented it. Possibly a cooling off law if the guns were purchased for the occasion, but nobody could be sure even then.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
[...] NBC affiliate reported that two victims are in serious condition and one is in critical condition.
...he created several victims but no Emacstims.
...is an important difference! Now if every citizen had to serve the country to carry, we would be all set.
But against unarmed victims, they all work great. Nice, France: 86 killed with a truck. Manchester, England: 20 killed with a homemade bomb.
But those are OK because nobody used a gun, right?
Oh, hello Mr. Strawman! Why, what a load of crap you are! I don't know who told you that it is legal to kill people with knives or trucks, but you're pretty gullible if you believe them.
Regarding "they all work good".
You point a gun at an unarmed person- you have very little resistance and a very high chance of killing your victim.
You try to stab someone with a knife- you stand a reasonable chance of failing, being disposed of your knife, and suffering wounds yourself. And if you do make contact- it's hard to make a quick kill and move on to the next victim.
Same with a vehicle- yeah the potential is there to get a lot of people at once- but you essentially get one shot- and then your "Weapon" is disabled.
There's a reason why our soldiers are equipped with guns as their primary weapons and not knives or trucks. Driving trucks at the opposition in war wouldn't work very well- and our knife wielding soldiers would be quickly shot down.
Guns are much more efficient killing weapons... in fact that is their primary purpose. It's a lot harder to ban knives or trucks because they serve a purpose other than killing- in fact, killing isn't what they're primarily designed to do.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
The ones that survived 'draw mohommad' were likely pretty sensible. Not 'alt-right' but not stupid lefties either.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"Cons
Work environment is so bad you literally might be shot by a co-worker"
https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/WTS-Paradigm-Reviews-E349419.htm?sort.sortType=RD&filter.employmentStatus=REGULAR&filter.employmentStatus=PART_TIME&filter.employmentStatus=UNKNOWN&sort.ascending=false&countryRedirect=true
posted on the 19th.
Ummm, yes? San Bernardino was a conservative Muslim couple, Orlando was a conservative closeted gay man ashamed of his sexuality, every single one of those cases in the very links you provided prove they were conservative. Maybe not alt right, but still right wing. Did you even read your own links? How did this idiot get modded +4 insightful? Because I'm the only one who actually clicked and read the links?
If the bad guys are going to break them. ...which you know is a bullshit argument. Also: no... more guns doesn't mean more safety. America already has more guns than everyone, therefore we should be the safest. But we are not the safest, so therefore more guns does not equal safety. You also know that these shootings are not chosen because they are 'gun free' zones. You know that is a bullshit argument too. There have been shooting on MILITARY BASES. Yup, that's why it was chosen... no guns there, right? You are just looking for lame justifications on why there shouldn't be reasonable measures on gun ownership.
PopeRatzo posted a fact that can be looked up! I bet its not true, he usually refuses to post objective facts because he has to lie to make his points. Lets have some fun!
Dallas violent crime rate = 7.67 per 1000
Chicago violent crime rate = 11.15 per 1000
Dallas has less than 70% the violent crime rate of Chicago per capita. Which to PopeRatzo is THE SAME!
Yes folks. There you have it, PopeRatzo the idiot lies again. When you see his posts, just assume it is a lie because it likely is. The rare times it is a fact you can look up, go ahead and you can see yourself. I had no idea if they were the same, but just assumed PopeRatzo lied like normal and was not disappointed.
and/or underfunded, and/or unenforced, and/or hamstrung.
Do you want shootings? Because that's how you get shootings.
No, the US is the place where everybody calls meetings. This must have been one meeting too many.
That's funny because US soldiers are issued plenty of bayonets and and humvees, guess that doesn't count in your logic though..............
Where do you silly people come from?
Here you go:
https://www.bestplaces.net/com...
Chicago's violent crime rate is almost exactly the same as Dallas', and Dallas actually has a higher rate of property crime.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Oh I'm glad being a gun owner now makes you a child fucker seeing as one weirdo did some weirdo shit. How do you one up yourself on stupidity daily. Or are you projecting that you think this wacko in the artilce is a liberal and trying to deflect ASAP?
"Was that wrong? Was I not supposed to do that?" ---George Costanza
Further, gun-grabbing Illinois has a lower rate of actual gun violence than gun-crazy Texas, according to the latest statistics.
https://www.usatoday.com/story...
Also, if you follow the links of the Anonymous Coward above, you will see that the rates he quotes are not for violent crime, or gun crime.
Dallas and Chicago have the same amount of violent crime and gun crime. However you want to slice it. And as I said before, Dallas has more property crime. Because statistically, guns make jackoffs into bigger jackoffs.
You are welcome on my lawn.
its clearly the only solution.. MOAR FREEDUMBS!!!
Just what are you afraid of AC?
http://www.acetonestudio.com
CoCs kill.
Only if they're really big and you choke on them.
He hired a prostitute through an online service who provided ID to prove she was 18. It sounds more like a government setup, like Assange, than a pedophile.
Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
Don't mischaracterize what I said. I never suggested that owning a gun makes you a child fucker. I said that being a gun enthusiast, like being a child fucker, is one of the defining characteristics of right-wing jackoffs.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I'm sure that 9 out of 10 child fuckers would say that it was all a "government setup"
You are welcome on my lawn.
Yes, you can literally type random links and as long as somebody wants to believe what you say, they will mod it up.
Rooster's just showing us that not all right-wing-nut-jobs are alt-right, they come in other forms too
> 17
> kiddie fucker
Yeah, fuck you too.
The USA just has a retarded age of consent.
Hey, just embrace it, more dead Americans is good for the worlds average IQ.
When you can ban unsafe toys and not guns, your society is sick and dying, just like the US.
The second amendment doesn't say shit about what kind of weapon you get to have. Tennessee decided a muzzle loader was good enough. I know 3 convicted felons who have 3 or 4 muzzle loaders but not one weapon of the type you're going on about. Be careful what you wish.
Yes, LynnwoodRooster, Hispanics can count as whites
So Trump is racist because he wants to build a wall to keep fellow caucasians out?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Stabbing requires proximity, guns do not.
Wait - radical, extremist Islamists are alt-right? Really? That's your contention? And I was upvoted because I posted many links to people who are definitely NOT "angry white alt-right guys".
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Then what about all of the "alt left" and democrat gun enthusiasts? Let me guess, they're just misinformed. I like many read slashdork daily, we see your bullshit. Sometimes its deep enough that others should be warned. I sexually identify as an extreme centrist.. So fuck all of your fringe side .. .. hell I don't even know what to call you people.
Get rid of the criminals, and the weapons don't matter.
You can't.
Can't spell PopeRatzo without bigotry.
#FallacyOfComposition same tactic racists use.
What do you have to say about this shooting perpetrated by a black woman? "Is anyone surprised? 'black' and 'violent criminal' are the last two boxes on african-american jackoff bingo." 13% of the population, 52% of the murder. Surely you are reasonable, consistent, and agree with that.
Not going to respond? I'd love to read your reasoning here along with anyone that modded that bigoted collectivism up.
You forget - alt-right just means someone with whom the speaker differs in opinion.
minor, easily skirtable gun restrictions == rabidly anti-gun ... okay, dude.
Imagine people blasting away at each other across cubicles, not knowing who the shooter is or where he is.
So, pretty much like cops then.
Remarkable that it is entirely assumed, in the title and body of the article.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
As for stabbing, the wound profile of a kitchen knife is more damaging than most bullets. Large-diameter soft-material rounds can cause more severe wounds, but they also require larger-bore firearms to use and take much more energy to fire (rough recoil).
Not just that, but you have to have a much larger round to make a substantial difference. Penetration and wound outcomes are similar between 9mm and .45 ACP, for example. You basically need a pistol so powerful it hurts to shoot it before you will do better than 9mm, let alone 9mm +P.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
But against unarmed victims, they all work great. Nice, France: 86 killed with a truck. Manchester, England: 20 killed with a homemade bomb.
But those are OK because nobody used a gun, right?
Oh, hello Mr. Strawman! Why, what a load of crap you are! I don't know who told you that it is legal to kill people with knives or trucks, but you're pretty gullible if you believe them.
You don't get to claim straw man while making your own. Nobody claimed it was OK. They pointed out that you can kill people without guns, but nobody is calling for bans on all the other things you can kill someone with. In fact, it's usually easier to kill more people with something other than a gun. A propane tank bomb, or a fertilizer bomb, or even just a fire, for example. Guns are most useful for killing a small number of people.
If you're in favor of banning guns because they are dangerous, you should be in favor of banning trucks and propane tanks for the same reason. And also cleaners with chlorine or ammonia, etc etc.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Shit healthcare
Legacy of ruthless exploitation of people
Legacy of religious and political extremism
Glorification of violence
Rampant drug use
Enormous poverty
Widespread easy availability of firearms
Lack of cultural psychological toughness
Full of blacks and latinos
Worship of the dollar above all else
De facto aristocratic ruling class
My Mommy-sister says my Aunt-cousin in Alabama had sex at 14 (or was it 12?).
Some states have lower ages of consent than others.
You don't get to claim straw man while making your own. Nobody claimed it was OK.
I made no strawman. He said "But those are OK because nobody used a gun, right?" claiming that I (and people who are against guns) are only against gun crime- which is ridiculous. Murder is murder no matter what the weapon used. Claiming otherwise IS a strawman and a pretty ridiculous unsubstantiatable one at that.
They pointed out that you can kill people without guns, but nobody is calling for bans on all the other things you can kill someone with. In fact, it's usually easier to kill more people with something other than a gun. A propane tank bomb, or a fertilizer bomb, or even just a fire, for example.
And you know what, that's another strawman? Bombs ARE illegal- it's irrelevant to use bombs as a defence of guns. I'm not in favour of making bombs legal either. The FBI will quickly visit your house if they suspect you of building one. But to follow your strawman, how many people are killed by fertilizer bombs in the US each year? Most years 0. If you average over the history of the US it is probably less than 1 a year.
Guns are most useful for killing a small number of people.
If you're in favor of banning guns because they are dangerous, you should be in favor of banning trucks and propane tanks for the same reason. And also cleaners with chlorine or ammonia, etc etc.
Guns are used to murder more people than any other device. You probably have more people killed with a gun in a day than you do with a truck in a year. Also a truck serves a purpose, it has a value to mankind. There is no other purpose to a gun, other than to kill other people, things, or pose a threat to do so.
A gun is useless to society. A truck is highly valuable to society. There's a huge difference, and surely you can see that.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Do you normally carry a gun to work?
Yes.
If yes perhaps you could also tell us the line of work.
Engineer for a local electric company. Lots of bears and mountain lions.
Have gnu, will travel.
How it is possible to shoot some innocent people? Why somebody become that blood sucker ? It is beyond my imagination.