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Netherlands Proposes Legislation To Ban Use Of Phones On Bicycles (npr.org)
The Dutch government is considering a proposal to ban the use of smartphones and other "mobile electronic devices" on bicycles. From a report: Infrastructure Minister Cora van Nieuwenhuizen published the draft legislation on Thursday, NL Times reports. If approved, it could go into effect in the summer of 2019. It is already illegal to use a phone while driving a motor vehicle in the Netherlands, the news site says. Offenders face a fine of more than $250. Biking is a widespread form of transportation in the Netherlands, and extending the telephone ban to bikes has been discussed for several years. In 2015, then-Infrastructure Minister Melanie Schultz van Haegen concluded that it would be impossible to enforce a ban on phone use on bikes, according to a 2016 story from Dutch News. But the following year, the government began reconsidering its position.
That use them for GPS/Speedometer/Odometer or the control system for any kind of E-Bike.
Next thing you know, Netherlands will ban talking on a phone while moving. Perhaps a technical solution can be found, like tethering phones to walls in houses; for convenience, small kiosks (with walls for privacy) can be put in various public places so you can use a phone when not at home. It'll be the next big thing!
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
If the Netherlands is anything like the rest of the countries on the planet I've seent, the problem isn't the lack of telling people to stay off their phone. The problem is that people tend to not pay any attention to the law, and common sense seems to be subjective.
Its very hard to police this on a mass scale as it just appears half of the people are talking to themselves. The pretense to pulling people over so far, isn't "They looked crazy to me judge, it looked like they were talking to themselves."
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What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy? - Ursula K. Leguin
Québec just did this some 4-5 months ago.
I ride a lot. I find that many drivers dont understand the actual traffic laws as they pertain to bikes on the road. Granted there are differences between jurisdictions.
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
It isn’t nannyland when your behavior has the risk of injuring an uninvolved party. Almost certainly the actual regulation wont be as vague as the article, but the determination of overkill depends on what they actual mean by “use”.
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I can no longer use my phone to listen to podcasts while I bike?
They're a nuisance and car drivers seem to feel that traffic laws don't apply to them.
FYI, large parts of the Netherlands are already 2 feet + under sea level.
I almost never see cyclists, even the ones in their little outfits acting like they are Serious Cyclists, slow down let alone completely stop at stop signs. But that's the law, guys.
I don't know how to back up my contacts yet. The application program called "Dumbphone assistant" looks perfect in term of GUI and showing contacts both on phone and SIM, there's two tabs (phone and.. SIM) and a check mark for common contacts. I would be done in seconds but it says 'Failed to save contact on SIM'
A friend was surprised when I told him I don't have Internet on the phone. It's not mandatory.
[The OS is not so bad (it's one of the few phones on the official Lineage list), the specs are high (dual core, 1GB RAM) but I wonder if I can underclock it.]
I wonder why copying contacts to SIM isn't built into the OS, nor the FM radio (I added it, and it requires root! works but fails at outputting sound on the phone's speaker, also the GUI is bad). What is included is the flashlight!
Wow, I got a very old aged OLED! You can see a few horizontal lines. It's not very bright, probably a factor for outdoors accidents but still serviceable. The colors are wrong but not overly so. It looks like what people do on purposes on desktops, laptops and sometimes phones : the "night time" display mode with an application like f.lux. The resolution is extremely high (1280x720) although it's just pissed away on thin sans serif fonts and symbolic icons.
Sounds like you're applying the experience with bikers you've had in your own country to an entirely different country. You clearly don't live or have ever been in the Netherlands. Here, have a read, specifically the bicycle bit: https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2017/10/12/what-nobody-told-me-1/
Where else outside of a Polish beach do you get to see sweaty middle-aged men in brightly colored spandex?
The bike has the right of way at all times.
But they don't have the right to blow through stop signs at intersections.
I’m pretty sure it’s already illegal to talk on your phone while bicycling in Switzerland. Laws that apply to motorists apply to bicyclists, and you can lose your drivers license for actions on a bicycle, so I would expect that phone use - illegal in a car - is also illegal on a bike.
You have clearly never been in the Netherlands.
-- Cheers!
No they haven't.
-- Cheers!
Not were I live, but most jurisdictions dont have the same laws. Where i am at, stop signs are yeild signs and stop lights are stop signs for cyclists. Its written into state law. Its called an Idaho Stop, see here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
This is why fast cyclists need to avoid bike lanes sometimes. Some lanes just beg you to get hit by cars turning right.
Running a right light? I do that routinely because a bicycle always gets in front (so can do it much more often) and then has a much better view of everything. It works when there's well enough of a mercy period when all lights are red or when there's no cars at all. I may as well do to avoid negotiating a left turn with cars pumping their virtual horses on green light.
In parts of the US they allow fucking cars to turn right on red lights, which is illegal for bicycles in my country (but they added some small signs to allow it at some lights, including the one place I was once berated by a couple cops in a car)
They painted bus lanes in my town, and then painted bicycle signs on them so the law sort of asks me to share lanes with buses. But it's another thing where "common sense" is needed. Get out of the way, or ride faster than buses (thanks to the numerous stops in town arteries here) or get all the lane for yourself when there aren't any buses. I love it but would-be cyclists and other cyclists bitch about that.
I flaunt the laws on lights but reflectors aren't mandatory afaik. Those in spokes may just mess with the spokes (and won't be seen by vehicles you care about!), reflectors may give a very false sense of security.
Well I would also advise cyclists in an unsafe situation (crosswalks, dark, poor mechanics, drunk, or in scary crossings or traffic) to get on foot because that also costs nothing at all and can be done more often that getting on foot and pushing the car.
Print material and text websites, videos, riding lessons (with a straight face, that exists for adults) can be a small partial solution and is all I can propose. For me I went from car driving to fast cycling so I just knew to ride the left lane for turning left, go into roundabouts with the cars, stop at the lights (this is still good in "heavy" areas and most so around highway exits) then learnt a more "liberal" and urban cycling too. (i.e. doing more shithead things but also slower)
Apparently you're not allowed to use any "electronic device" while on a bike. Wording it like that is said to "future-proof" the law.
So no, nothing about cradles, using GPSes, or whatnot. NO LOOKING AT THAT ELECTRONIC DEVICE, SIR.
Stopping with a bicycle at a stop sign is probably in 90% of all cases pretty retarded. If there is no police around, obviously I don't stop, in the sense of the word "stop".
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Where you are also plays a role in cycling culture. I grew up in a place where bicyclists had to be banned from the sidewalks back when I was a young child, because they were running people over--I never got hit, but that was entirely because I was good at hearing oncoming bikes and getting out of the way...and was lucky enough to never have to dodge one where I'd have to try dodging into the road.
I think I stop at stop signs. They're fairly rare where I live! See, they put lights everywhere instead, which are less formal for cyclists and make it more convenient by stopping lots of cars. Other places there's a painted "yield" marking, or a roundabout, or no markings at all.
Where you will see a lot of stop signs is roads out of town and then you'll stop anyway because cars are doing 100 km/h or perhaps more.
The proposed ban only bans holding electronics in your hand while riding your bike. You can still use a headset, odometer, GPS, etc, just not in your hand while riding. You are allowed to use them when standing still. The same is already true for cars.
There are lots of kids texting while riding their bike on the public road, leading to an increase in accidents. Things like this are a common occurrence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I live in the Netherlands and don't have a car and I avoid public transport, so I bike a lot. And in fact many many people here bike a lot. The pet peeve is against bike racers acting rather uncivil in traffic, not mere bike riders. The adherence to traffic rules (they're not laws) is pretty good actually, though a little more freewheeling than what you'd do in a car, except in places like Amsterdam which is a permanent jam regardless of transport mode. Still a tad many people ride without lights in the dark though.
Personally I do break traffic rules if and when that's the safer course of action. Say, bike on pavement for 50 meters if that saves crossing a busy strreet twice. But when I do that I slow to walking pace, making sure not to inconvenience traffic on foot, that sort of thing. The youtube footage showing groups of cyclists misbehaving at high speed right through all other traffic in eg. New York, you really don't see that here. There's really no need, with plenty of dedicated lanes for bikes in most places. Also recall that the Netherlands is small a small place full of old towns and cities not designed for cars. It really makes much more sense to bike than to hop in a car here.
I do.
It is not retarded because it shows to other cyclists that some people actually follow the traffic code. This puts peer pressure on those who don't.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
"Idaho stop" sounds like something nasty happening on a dark highway. "I got pulled over, and that bastard cop gave me an Idaho stop! I couldn't sit properly for a week..."
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
>In parts of the US they allow fucking cars to turn right on red lights, which is illegal for bicycles in my country (but they added some small signs to allow it at some lights, including the one place I was once berated by a couple cops in a car)
I think you're mistaking what I said. I said running red lights. As in turning left or driving straight through them. As for turning right, you are required to come to a complete stop prior to doing so (not doing that is running it), however, a lot of cars don't bother for right turns either so I'd be willing to overlook that one as it rarely results in the spectacular collision the other two maneuvers do.
Can you imagine the amount of people who would die if cars drove at top speed straight through red lights all the time? Yet the invulnerable cyclist does it all the time.
>They painted bus lanes in my town, and then painted bicycle signs on them so the law sort of asks me to share lanes with buses.
They have done this for some streets in my city. The intent is you will command the entire lane or you will pull over to the right to allow faster traffic to pass, as is required by law in Ontario (HTA 147) in a dual purpose lane.
>I flaunt the laws on lights but reflectors aren't mandatory afaik
They are in Ontario. I bet they are also required where you live, also.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK123
"(17) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor assisted bicycle and bicycle (other than a unicycle) shall carry a lighted lamp displaying a white or amber light on its front and a lighted lamp displaying a red light or a reflector on its rear, and in addition white reflective material shall be placed on its front forks, and red reflective material covering a surface of not less than 250 millimetres in length and 25 millimetres in width shall be placed on its rear. 2015, c. 14, s. 21 (2)."
Of course I'm modded down to -1, these are difficult pills to swallow for cyclists.
>Print material and text websites, videos, riding lessons (with a straight face, that exists for adults) can be a small partial solution and is all I can propose
I have a better idea. Mandatory licensing of cyclists. The fees can go towards paying for your bike lanes. They don't have to be particularly high like car fees are, I figure $5 a year would be plenty. But there is a reason why police in Ontario find against the driver in the majority of driver/cyclist collisions. I used to drive a route that took me along several roads popular with cyclists. I would literally thumbs up the cyclists that would drive according the the law (at least the important parts like NOT FUCKING TURNING LEFT THROUGH A RED LIGHT). I only needed to do this once a month. That's how little ability there seems to be to ride according to the law here.
Police find against the cyclist, I should say.
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/2591034-cyclists-at-fault-in-majority-of-bike-vehicle-collisions/
In the Netherlands, people on bikes drive on the sidewalk (not allowed), fail to indicate direction change (not allowed), drive without lights after sundown (not allowed), drive intoxicated (not allowed) and drive on the wrong side of the road regularly (not allowed).
Neither of these common offenses is ever punished. The phone ban won't be either.
Only car drivers are ever punished and then only for offenses that can be easily policed with cameras.
They do legally as a base case in the Netherlands. If you hit a cyclist the car is automatically at fault. You'll need to go through the courts to prove otherwise. If the cyclist / pedestrian is under 14 you can't prove otherwise, you're just at fault.
Look it up.
I'm the other guy that do. I do not even see or watch the stop sign itself, what matters is the continuous paint line. I have to say it's not there in my country at traffic lights, or crosswalks.
I did get in an accident with a car while turning left and crossing a continuous line and got rear-ended in fact left-ended, at night. Where the medieval walls used to stand and which is now circling half the town center. Well, it's weird there was a hard line there just after that majorly known but not too big crossing. I figured I was more drunk than the car and let the car go. In truth I didn't know what to fucking do I could have asked the startled guy for a ride.
I'm not an expert in USA road, do they use the double yellow for that? they do for "not cross road"
I think you're not USA! I want to build a moral equivalency between stop sign/stop paint and paint line "absolutely do not cross".
This puts peer pressure on those who don't.
Sometimes I do this in a hypocritical way i.e. women and childs behind me at the red light then I'll stop. I'm kidding a bit. Proper lane placement is what I like doing because dead center is nice if you go as fast as the cars, dead right is nice if you go slow and/or want to let go a bus, heavy truck or firefighters or fast responders or main battle tanks etc. I do believe dead left is good for turning left (or possibly dead center of left lane), in my country cars have to go left to turn left and are only authorized to overtake on the right the cars that turn left. Good thing for me if you look both ahead and behind you and ahead left and behind left.
Why is that? And, hey, I know you have done all of those things. You've usually gotten away with it, but you feel like having "paid for the roads" (you haven't, everyone pays for them, car or not) you are being "persecuted" because SOME drivers have been arrested for it.
Thanks.
And when I read you and replied you you weren't modded to -1, so don't read too much in what a basement dweller did.
They have done this for some streets in my city. The intent is you will command the entire lane or you will pull over to the right to allow faster traffic to pass, as is required by law in Ontario (HTA 147) in a dual purpose lane.
This is what I want to get at, say, in English it's "share the lane" and in French "Partager la voie" (and that in Latin is "share the via"). I have to say I don't know the law, code, statute or rule which says this. (I don't intend to be a smart ass I speak French. Exact translation will be "share the way")
I thank you (half heartedly) on the laws and statutes for lights and reflectors. In.. where I live, bikes somewhat often have reflectors on the sides but law says, active white light on the front and active red light on the red (decades of yellow light on the front on cars will make a yellow light on old bike acceptable).
It's getting common to have cheap ass LED light now powered by primary battery (like AAA or CR2032) and they all can blink. If anything I should sell these lights. Blinking red is good and with these LED things must means it eat half power.
Towns cops don't give a shit because all roads got lighted like mad unless you get out of town's neighboring town and then the rural cops will (possibly) bother you but they're not the same kind of cops... What I call the rural cops are very known to catch the drunkards and speeders. Well it's an eurowimp country.
Actual text of the proposal is at https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/b...
ARTIKEL I
Het Reglement verkeersregels en verkeerstekens 1990 wordt als volgt gewijzigd:
Artikel 61a komt te luiden:
Het is degene die een voertuig bestuurt verboden tijdens het rijden een mobiel
elektronisch apparaat dat gebruikt kan worden voor communicatie of
informatieverwerking vast te houden. Onder een mobiel elektronisch apparaat wordt in
elk geval verstaan een mobiele telefoon, een tabletcomputer of een mediaspeler.
ARTIKEL II
Dit besluit treedt in werking met ingang van 1 juli 2019.
Lasten en bevelen dat dit besluit met de daarbij behorende nota van toelichting in het
Staatsblad zal worden geplaatst.
I.e.: they ban the handholding of an electronic device that can be used for communication or data processing. They mean as such at least a mobile phone, a tablet computer or a media player.
But what about a boombox? Electronic in nature, can receive radio. And does not have to be powered on.
Could be illegal due to this proposed law...
I don't run the stop sign, but i don't stop in the sense that the bike is at rest and one foot is on the ground.
I often stop in an "artistic way", the bike is at rest but I keep sitting/standing on the pedals.
Yeah, but 90% of the time, I slow only down like a pedestrian and continue if there is no need to stop.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The Darwin Awards Laws.
Coastal defence in The Netherlands is regulated by law. It is maintained at mean sealevel+36ft, whatever the rise. We're also nannies about getting shit done.
Uit, Uit, Uit!!!
this is not true. You're not automatically at fault. However, in a car you will be held responsible, since the cyclist is weaker than the car. In a collision between a car and a bicycle it's the car that makes it dangerous.
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
You're not automatically at fault. However, in a car you will be held responsible
An English language distinction, not a legal distinction.
I have yet to see a stop sign on a bike path.