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Ask Slashdot: Which Motherboard Manufacturer Provides the Best Support?
New submitter Hrrrg writes: A number of years ago, I built a computer with an Asus LGA 1150 Z87-Pro motherboard. Since the discovery of the Spectre and Meltdown CPU flaws, I was hoping for a BIOS update to address them. However, it seems that there will be no BIOS update forthcoming for this 5 year old motherboard. I would prefer not to repeat my mistake with future builds. Can you recommend another manufacturer that is doing better?
Their support is so great, it's almost like they're watching what you're doing.
What BIOS update are going to fix those? They are unfixable without re-architecting the chip. There might be some software mitigations, but good luck with that.
I have had no problems with them.
http://progressquest.com/spoltog.php?name=Son+Of+Son+Of+DarkRookie
Meltdown and Spectre mitigations will be in the OSes you run. The only thing a BIOS update will get you is updated microcode, but updated microcode is available at the OS level for all major OSes (e.g. Linux, Windows, macOS).
are all about the same and none of them will support a board much past 2 years. After 6 months all your getting is the occasional new CPU.
There's nothing wrong with ASRock but they're not known for durability. I will say I seldom see them on the second hand market which implies that's for a reason.
There's probably some server board makers out there if you want to spend $600 and you'll get your bios upgrades, but you could buy 2 or 3 good boards for that price. Plus the chips they take usually cost 2-3x times as much too.
Basically, it's consumer grade hardware. The best you can hope for is that it doesn't break in 5 years. Everything after that is gravy.
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How did this dumb ass question get posted on / . ?
My thoughts exactly. Supermicro boards are normally used in servers, so their customers have certain expectations. Here is one list of Spectre patches for a bunch of Supermicro motherboards:
https://www.supermicro.com/sup...
If anyone missed the news, just recently it was discovered that the Chinese manufacturer added a very suspicious chip to a small number of Supermicro boards. That's obviously very bad news.
The chips Intel are putting out still have the same deep flaws as before, slower and are more expensive than AMD chips. Why in hell are you still wanting to use an Intel chip?!
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Supermicro provides lots of hardware for cloud providers like AWS, Softlayer, etc... I run several VMware clusters that employ a few Supermicro and I've come to learn that Supermicro doesn't care. I've applied firmware updates to all my bare metal hypervisors except the supermicros and it's my plant to replace them all with another brand. But of course, this is server class hardware. I've been using MacBook Pro for the past 10 years so I don't even know anything to recommend anymore. Good luck!
ASUS.
They have the best support. You are unlikely to get better from someone else.
Having recently used Asus, ASRock, MSI and Gigabyte products for some builds for friends, I would say Asus. ASRock had some questionable at best soldering on the boards (x299) I've seen and their BIOS translations and documentation were sketchy. MSI had a bunch of good things but other things that weren't well designed. I also came across information that was flat out wrong in the manual for the Z2370 board I was working on. Asus seemed to have good documentation and translations in bIOS and a quality built product. Gigabyte seemed to be almost entirely lacking in documentation for the board I used (the manual was less than 80 pages that came with the board). They did seem to do a pretty good job on the build quality though, and I didn't OC on that build so I can't comment on BIOS options.
TLDR: None of them are garbage, but I think the tier list for physical build quality is something like:
Asus > Gigabyte > MSI > ASRock
And from a software/documentation perspective I would say:
Asus > ASRock > MSI = Gigabyte
Just my .02 having built 6 rigs for others in the last year or so.
MSI did the right thing with their AB350-gaming motherboard, an early, budget Ryzen board. They kept the firmware completely current even though that board was quickly superseded by AB350-gaming 3. At first I really had my doubts whether MSI would stand behind that early board, and maybe I just wasted my $100, but they surprised me favorably. Not only does the board seem to have no serious flaws that they couldn't patch up with a firmware update, it's been a really good performer. More than 150 days uptime at one point, only ended by a power outage when not plugged into UPS. Oh well, it was time to update the kernel anyway.
MSI's prompt firmware updates were particularly important to fix the lockup issue Ryzen chipsets initially had with some power supplies under Linux. MSI released new firmware within days of AMD distributing the fix.
The whole point of that build was to have a workstation class box at budget price. I would definitely go MSI for the next build, but that isn't going to be budget, far from it. It will be a high end Threadripper build. I'm addicted now, you see. Vendors stood behind their products so I will stand behind them.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
... 5 year old motherboard ...
Good luck. In the land of consumer electronics, things that old need to be carbon dated.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
ASUS is a great motherboard manufacture, and has been for a long time. Even when I use other motherboards ASUS is still one of the top tier in my book. Finding a better one....
Your motherboard is using the z87 chipset
Not just ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI (other good motherboard makers) also don't have released microcode
https://www.asus.com/News/V5ur...
https://www.gigabyte.com/Micro...
https://www.msi.com/news/detai...
You'll have to rely on the OS patches.
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Who expects 5 years of free support for a consumer computer hardware product?
Unless you're a large vendor who is willing to pay for extended support from the manufacturer, I don't think you're going to have much luck finding any vendor that will guarantee 5 years of support.
Did you ask the manufacturer how much they would charge for a custom BIOS? Get a few thousand other people together who also want support for that product, and you can probably even afford it, though it's probably still going to cost more than replacing the motherboard with a newer one. Can't find 1000 other people that also want to use that 5 year old product? Well, that's the same reason the manufacturer doesn't support it - that's a lot of
No spectre, no meltdown, support unmatched.
ARM though, no x86,
Which is one of the reasons the quality is so good.
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Not had a problem with Gigabyte. Asus products have been working well too.
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It is also not necessarily true that it even happened, actually. You forgot to mention that minor detail.
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Wait what? You literally cannot sign away your legal warranty rights under the legislation that is compatible with the relevant EU directive, and Sweden must harmonise national law with this EU directive.
They are however well within their rights to demand you pay them for the check-up if they find that you're at fault (i.e. you dropped the damn thing into a pool and decided to pretend this is a warranty repair).
... you never had to call.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
From what I've read these problems can't be fixed by any kind of bios update. The only mitigations will be through microcode updates to your cpu or updates to your operating system. Also from what I've read Intel does not provide microcode updates for any cpu older than the 6th generation so if you have a 5th generation or older all your going to get is operating system mitigations. I don't use AMD cpu's so you'll have to check what generations of their cpu's have updates available and if you have an older AMD cpu then you're out of luck.
Been using them for a decade+, never needed customer service.
...
I am sure that other manufacturers have tools to slipstream all the necessary drivers into the image for you and make it uefi bootable now a days. But thats why I went with asrock 2 years ago, because they were one of the first to support win7 again fully. No problems so far.
People get brand loyal, but all mobo manufacturers are kinda the same. I usually just use newegg to filter for the features i want (be it usb ports, or sata channels, or dual m.2 x4 slots or whatever) and then buy the cheapest one that meets my requirements. asrock, asus, gigabyte and msi, you really cant go wrong with any of those.
And i wouldn't worry about those vulnerabilities. I am pretty sure there is no like, mass exploit in the wild. Its hardly a reason to upgrade. Maybe intel will release an exploit on the darkweb to spur PC sales soon? It always seemed pretty lame as exploits go, just being able to read some random protected memory. I am sure one day it will end me, but somehow i soldier on.
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Can a BIOS update address spectre or meltdown?
I . . . don't think they can? The fixes from Intel are applied via microcode updates, generally delivered by OS vendors and having nothing to do with BIOS updates.
Am I missing something?
But with only one processor, put in there just one Graphics card.
when the time to upgrade comes, instead of buying new processor+memory+mobo+graphics card, add a second processor, a second graphics card with NVLink or xFire, or more memory as needed, depending on bottle-neck.
More money upfront, but less money and hassle on the long run, and better support, to boot.
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Honestly. Listen, I know they're being trashed right now but it wasn't them... it was outsourcing 2 layers removed. It's unfortunate that they're young to take the sword for this.
I've been building PCs for over 25 years. I used to love Asus but recently switched to ASRock (Rack) and SuperMicro. Both provided excellent personalized support when I needed it. In fact it was just earlier this week that I emailed SM with a tech question and they responded relatively immediately with a detailed and enthusiastic answer. Not even an initial robo email with a ticket # and false promise to respond in "24-48 hours". It was only 3h.
I hope they get through this. I'm not even sure my board would be targeted... It's a full ATX style, while it seems the targeted boards are blades used in HD racks.
Agreed, in consumer electronics one should expect support to end the moment the sale is complete. If you want actual vendor support, you're buying a system, not individual components.
At the time I wrote that, I hadn't seen anyone question whether it happened. Thanks for mentioning that.
The motherboard whose box is the most sturdy, will offer an excellent support when standing over it.
Stop bundling spectre and meltdown together. Specter can be and has been mitigated at software or firmware/microcode level. On the other hand, Meltdown affected all Intel and a few Qualcomm chips and cannot be mitigated, for the current lineup of CPUs.
AMD Ryzen3 Zen2 will be coming out with security fixes and so will Intel's next generation CPUs. Also DDR 5 is coming out making your DDR 4 investment obsolete fast.
It is a CPU problem as stated as the bios can only do so much when the circuitry itself by default generates all sorts of forgone conclusions which is what branch prediction is.
A CPU fix will be needed and none are around. AMD is a little more secure but it too has 2 of the 3 spectre bugs that Intel has.
http://saveie6.com/
Yes, I can recommend another manufacturer, AMD.
Still running a $60 Abit AMD board with the original Phenom. The sound circuits said their goodbyes after 8 years and the memory training has become very slow with all sockets full, but the latest Window 10 still works with the storage controller in IDE mode.
I am in almost the same position but the only thing which has failed on my system are two power supplies and one video card. I am still running an almost 10 year old ASUS M3A78-T (2008) with a Phenom II 940 (2009) and I have no complaints. I am in the process of building a Ryzen system to replace it.
My previous Asus P4C800-E Deluxe with Intel Pentium4 2.4C still works fine also and I am in the process of refurbishing it for use as a file server. My even older Abit BX6 Revision 2 which currently has a 1.2GHz P3 is also fully functional and serves as my Windows XP and ISA legacy system.
The only thing unusual about all of these systems which they share in common is more than sufficient air cooling and ECC memory.
The only motherboards I have had fail are even older ones which use embedded lithium batteries for the CMOS memory and clock and each one with an nVidia chipset.
These days, computers are plenty fast for most tasks. {...} For most tasks by most users, five years is fine.
Sadly, the hardware vendors don't seem to agree with you.
It seems that if it's older than a couple of months, you're basically on your own.
(Except maybe for the "business" line of some manufacturer like Dell or Lenovo. But definitely the case for separate motherboard manufacturer as in TFS).
Heck, I'm running a laptop that was manufactured August 2012; 6 years ago. It performs just fine. (Disclaimer: I'm running Linux.)
That last part might be the reason why you and I can pull such a stunt, including the latest kernel. The same hardware will probably refuse to run anything more recent than Windows Vista.
(And let me guess, also using Nouveau due to Nvidia dropping support of the embed GPU in your laptop ?)
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