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Thieves Are Boosting the Signal From Key Fobs Inside Homes To Steal Vehicles (www.cbc.ca)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CBC.ca: According to Markham automotive security specialist Jeff Bates, owner of Lockdown Security, wireless key fobs have a role to play in many recent car thefts, with thieves intercepting and rerouting their signals -- even from inside homes -- to open and steal cars. According to Bates, many of these thieves are using a method called "relay theft." Key fobs are constantly broadcasting a signal that communicates with a specific vehicle, he said, and when it comes into a close enough range, the vehicle will open and start. The thief will bring a device close to the home's door, close to where most keys are sitting, to boost the fob's signal. They leave another device near the vehicle, which receives the signal and opens the car. Many people don't realize it, Bates said, but the thieves don't need the fob in the car to drive it away. Bates says, if you have a key fob that can wirelessly unlock/start your car, you should not keep it by the front door.
"If you do live in a house, try to leave your keys either upstairs or ... as far away from the vehicle as possible," he said. "The other thing that you can do is there are products out there that you can put your key fob into," such as a faraday cage -- a box used to block radio signals -- a key pouch, which works similarly, or even a steel box.
"If you do live in a house, try to leave your keys either upstairs or ... as far away from the vehicle as possible," he said. "The other thing that you can do is there are products out there that you can put your key fob into," such as a faraday cage -- a box used to block radio signals -- a key pouch, which works similarly, or even a steel box.
I drive a crappy old car that cannot be started with a key fob signal. You can't steal my car!
Oh....
"Key fobs are constantly broadcasting a signal that communicates with a specific vehicle" - Don't do that. Duh.
Seriously, get one of those wire baskets sold as desk organizers, hang it next to your key rack. Drop your key fob in that basket, and you are safe.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
First, key fobs are NOT constantly broadcasting a signal. Their tiny coin cell battery would go dead really quickly. The CAR is constantly broadcasting a signal, which, when the fob is in range of, it answers with an unlock code. Next, sure, you can use a Faraday cage. You can put it in the refrigerator (which some people actually do!), etc. But you can simply park your car in your garage. Don't pile up crap in the garage and actually use it for the car. Boom, attack defeated.
about a year ago. Does not take long.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk...
This is the same story that made rounds on Facebook over a year ago, telling people to put their keys in their microwave when they're at home to prevent people stealing their car. https://www.foxnews.com/tech/w...
The mechanism in a fob that lets the vehicle start is not the same mechanism that operates the locks. Additionally there's different programming needed to add the convenience controls versus programming the fob to where the vehicle will start with it.
This "hack" was possibly demonstrated on an old Top Gear when one of the presenter's cars was moved into the street by another presenter while they were at a restaurant. Basically supposedly it was close enough that the the fob and car could communicate. Given that this was for entertainment it's difficult to say if it was real or not.
Either way though, I guess I'm still a fan of having a physical key that must be inserted into a slot, used in combination with an immobilization system that communicates with a chip that's embedded with the key.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
At the very least, the key fob should have a motion sensor, and should not be beaconing when it's not been moving for a few minutes. That would defeat this particular exploit.
Bruce Perens.
also works. And I think they have it backwards. The car is constantly pinging and the fob is listening. If it hears a car then returns the challenge.
It just need to emit when you push a button on the key fob. Or is this one of those "innovation" with scary quotes where you just have to be near your car ?
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"always broadcast a signal". They only do that when within the low-frequency radio signal generated by the car. They work much like RFID if you don't press a button on it. This is also really only usable on vehicles that don't use the standard "press a button to do something" fob. My 2011 Hyundai uses a standard fob like this; the 2018 Yukon XL I rented used the more modern type since it was a push-start.
Come on you crazy car makers you can fix this exploit.... PLEASE start making the no button FOBs work on an interrogation basis... Make it necessary for the CAR to initiate the conversation and ONLY when the car needs to know when the FOB is in the local area. ALSO, make sure the FOB is at least close to the vehicle by looking at the delay between the ping and pong reply. You can keep the current button press FOB things, but for any "automated" unlocking do the right thing and MAKE SURE the FOB is actually near the vehicle (or INSIDE it when you start the motor). Come on, it's not that hard...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
... because it is almost as likely that you will get hit by a meteor as have this happen to you.
https://youtu.be/bR8RrmEizVg
Isn't technology great?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Given that there is no indication of an increase in theft and that thieves using methodologies like this are very likely professionals, the thieves have just found a less damaging way to steal your car. They can steal any car they decide they want - even if they have to haul it away on a car hauler. If it is stolen in this fashion and perchance recovered, you likely won't have to deal with as much of a repair job.
So go ahead and worry about making it more difficult with Faraday cages and other silliness. If your car shows up as one that they want for parts, you'll just get a busted window for your efforts assuming they recover it.
The key fob only transmits a signal when you push the button. And what does the key fob have to do with starting the car? That's done with a key. Of course you can hot-wire a car, that's been a thing since there were keys. Article is confused.
I've owned a number of vehicles with keyfobs, and in almost every case, they didn't transmit anything until you pressed a button on them to unlock or lock a door, a trunk, or perhaps sound the horn repeatedly as a "panic" function.
That was true even for cars like my Hyundai Genesis Coupe that had "push to start". The fob might have transmitted something to tell the car it was present, so push to start was ok to start the engine. But you couldn't unlock the doors just by walking up to it. Come to think of it, my Cadillac CTS Coupe used to be the same way. It had push to start, but the fob didn't unlock anything until a button was pressed to send that signal.
I actually used to have a Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 convertible (2005 model) where the keyfob would even stop unlocking the doors if a button on it was pushed too many times while outside the range where the car could act on the command. It must have used some kind of 2 way handshake when you pressed the lock or unlock button. When it would stop working (which happened occasionally because I'd accidentally press buttons on it when it was in my jeans pocket with the rest of my keychain), I had to put the key in the ignition, turn it to the "on" position, and double press a button on it, and then turn the car back off. That would pair it back up.
First reported at least 2 years ago.
The only news here is that it's still possible to do it. So ask your local auto manufacturer 'what the fuck'.
...car theft. Once autonomous cars are perfected, thieves can remotely start the target car and have it drive itself into a Faraday caged trailer. The vehicle pulling the trailer will be autonomous too.
I am sure your Amazon or Google based internet home security system will be able to protect it.
Turns out the thief is an autonomous AI as well, that figured out making money for new GPU's to increase processing power was a lot easier stealing cars!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
While you're at it if you have a room big enough to hold a car with a big enough door to drive through please put your car in there. I'm in the 'burbs but I'm constantly confused by people who stuff their garage with junk but leave their vehicle outside and unprotected.
Sure, hence the other idea of a slide switch to activate/deactivate fob.
That still means you have to dig it out, especially annoying in the winter. I like my keyless entry because as stated, I can just walk up to the door and press a button (on the door) and it unlocks without having to dig the key out of my pocket or jacket.
Now if you are really wanting this, this you could easily hack it up yourself - the wireless key fobs have batteries, so you could just rig some simple outside switch to disconnect the battery. I'll be the people able to make that happen and the people actually wanting this feature is a nearly complete overlap.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Millennial anti-theft device.
Think about it. You have one person in the parking lot finding cars with push button start. Stand close to the car, then have another person in the store with a booster walking past people till the car unlocks. Take car, ???, profit!
Boosting stories and headlines directly from HackerNews, instead of having their own.
Perhaps design a key fob that doesn't constantly broadcast, it would be harder to intercept and perhaps save battery life. This revolutionary keyfob design could have a set of buttons to unlock your doors, start the car, maybe open the trunk, or set an alarm mode.
I should patent that idea before anyone else! Ladies and gentlemen, we may have solved this key fob hacking trick and added a whole suite of features in the process. Well done!
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
That makes sense and gives a reason for the second device mentioned. You would need a repeater at the car to boost signal to get fob to transmit code that they then intercept with 1st box. Otherwise the unit at the car makes no sense.
I'm the same AC who posted the parent comment. I've reconsidered my spam posts after seeing other people call for civility on this site. I'm sorry, SuperKendall, for harassing you with spam posts like this. I will immediately stop threatening you and your family, and I promise my threats of "consequences" are empty threats. I'll be leaving Slashdot now, and I won't return until I can make a useful and civil contribution to this site. I will never post spam again.
Sold as 'The Club'. Master Lock and other companies make similar club-style steering wheel locks. While not foolproof, they are a visual deterrent that, like a dog in your house to a burgler....makes them move on to easier goddam pickings. Purportedly.
I've been slapping a club on my own vehicle for years now. A 12 year old could hotwire my old vehicle lol. Why make it easy for them.
bring a device close to the home's door, close to where most keys are sitting,
I must be one of the few people whose car key isn't located anywhere near the front door. It must be close to 30' where I put my key.
Also, as someone further up said, I drive a stick shift. Even though I have an electronic door lock, it only works when I press the button. So even if they could steal my signal, my anti-theft device will keep them at bay.
I live in a cardboard box, you insensitive clod!
But I wrapped it in aluminum foil so nobody can steal my Lexus.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
For customers that would get a model-year-new replacement from insurance (assuming the car wasn't tracked down and recovered), there doesn't seem to be much incentive to be worried about this. It might be an inconvenience to not have a vehicle for a time, but I'll gladly take the $20k payout bonus in exchange.
But then you go to the beach, have a swim with the fob in your pocket, and you stay at the beach because the fob stopped working.
That is why I leave the electronics in the car and only carry the physical key (on a hybrid key/fob system).
>> hard time believing that my ancient fob is always broadcasting
Yea.
I had an after market fob that activated the fuel pump and ignition on a jalopy just by being in the car, no button. A resonant technology like the anti theft thingies in stores or quick-pass - these CAN be pinged while in your coat pocket at home. The button type do nothing till you push the button, these signals can be harvested in busy parking lots, but then you need to find the car later in order to be able to steal it. Of course there are the guys with a dolly they can slide under your car then up on a platform truck in under 90 seconds.
The parent comment is a direct threat against a particular user and his family. I don't agree with SuperKendall's politics at all, but I've always found him to debate me in a civil manner. Disagreement does not warrant harassment and threats.
These comments are posted repeatedly, sometimes multiple times within a single article. Judging by the volume and frequency of these comments, the user responsible for posting them is actively circumventing Slashdot's limits on anonymous posting.
I've reported many of these spam posts to Slashdot, and I'm sure many others have as well. I've also emailed the management here. I've been around on this site since the late 1990s and I've seen many trolls and crapflooders. I don't remember this amount of incivility and harassment, even when the overall volume of troll posts was higher.
Violent threats aren't protected speech. While this post doesn't threaten a specific act of violence, one could argue that is implied. While the user may well be incapable of actually carrying out that threat, it is still a threat. Slashdot is aware of these threats, but seems to look the other way, Despite reporting the parent comment, it hasn't even been moderated to -1. I sincerely wish Slashdot would crack down on the most vile of the spam, that often contains the worst incivility and bigotry. I've seen entire threads be deleted, so I know Slashdot is willing to delete posts that are deemed abusive or have been reported for DMCA violations. Unfortunately, that's also extremely inconsistent, as evidenced by the parent post and many others like it being allowed to stay despite being reported.
While I'm not a lawyer, I strongly suspect there is some legal liability for hosting illegal speech once the host is made aware of it. I've done just that by reporting these posts. I'm not SuperKendall, so I'm not in a position to bring legal action for these specific posts. However, it is entirely possible that someone else might be willing to do so, if these types of behavior are allowed to continue. I sincerely value free speech, and there are times that something needs to be said anonymously. For that matter, I'm posting this anonymously to avoid harassment from the user who posted the parent.
I sincerely hope that Slashdot will clean this up. This is driving away users who make productive contributions to this site. It contributes nothing to the discussion, and really isn't legally protected speech. There's a difference between censoring viewpoints and blocking spam and repeated harassment.
And so I ask: Does Slashdot condone harassment and threats? Or will they put an end to this behavior?
In addition to the post's reported issue (which is hardly news, BTW; it's been a thing for a good while), another reason I rejected this feature for our most recent car is that I often like to verify that the car's door is locked, and without that annoying beep if I (re)lock with the fob. With an auto-open feature (pun quite intended), a test of the door handle as I'm leaving the car always leaves it open. Maybe it automatically re-locks after some time, but even that might be longer than I want.
And if auto-open fobs weren't enough, another option was to be able to start the car remotely from a smartphone app. Warms it up and such. Just what I need, filling the garage with CO. I skipped that "feature" too.
And how about the claim that it's a "short range attack"? They've got Bluetooth "sniper rifles" that can connect to a device a mile away, how much do you want to bet the same thing exists for keyless fobs? Sweep that through the parking lot and across the store/restaurant/whatever as you drive past, and let it give a chirp when it unlocks something - along with a readout of whatever model-identifying information can be recognized. You wouldn't want to waste your time stealing the cheap junk after all.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Like the car. Oh, wait.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
The entire article is speculative.
That statement is incorrect for the proximity fobs too. That would kill the battery in the fob. Anyone such a fob can easily test it.
Go stand next to your car. You probably won't hear it unlock.
Touch the door handle. You'll hear it unlock.
What's going on is:
The handle has a capacitive sensor to detect your hand.
When your hand is on the handle, the car sends an *inductive pulse.
The fob has a coil in it, which works like a transformer to catch the pulse from the car.
Note this pulse is more like a transformer than a radio.
When the fob is triggered by the inductive pulse, it sends a radio packet to the car.
Altoids cans work.
Have gnu, will travel.
Guess their "expert" doesn't know about the plethora of Master Key Fobs available on Amazon and eBay for many brands of vehicles.
Then you deserve to have your radio signals amplified and replayed.
Sure do! But it's super unlikely I figure. I'll gladly trade a lifetime of convenience for the slim chance it will be used to take the car some day - which insurance would just pay for another of anyway...
Also my car is garaged which adds an admittedly thin layer of extra security around it when not in use.
Honestly rather than a switch which would be annoying all the time, a simple RF blocking bag to drop the key into at home seems like a much more practical way to go if you have to leave your car on the street and want someplace near the door to leave the key.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Also, I'm not sure if the fobs have batteries, or are powered with received EM from the car.
My fob does have a battery, and most would for powering the broadcast signals that are used by the remote unlock buttons.
However after some thought, it seems like even with the battery disconnected the actual RFID chip would probably still broadcast, after all it is just a latent thing... so it's not that easy to rug up a switch. I guess a kind of switch could be as simple as a sliding RFID blocker over the body of the fob that you could fold away somehow.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It may be news to CBC, but Steve & Leo covered it on the Security Now! podcast back in 2015, IIRC.
Google says... "Security Now! #508 - 05-19-15 Exploiting Keyless Entry"
They bring a steal box, you bring a steel box. That's the Chicago way!
I am not a sig.
Either way though, I guess I'm still a fan of having a physical key that must be inserted into a slot, used in combination with an immobilization system that communicates with a chip that's embedded with the key.
And the communication between chip and immobilization system goes through the key, not the air, TYVM.
It is completely obvious to me, has been since the beginning, that "security" mechanisms that use radio waves do little more than add holes to your "security" setup. So to me the question of why car makers insist on radio-fobs, insurers require them too "for security", but also banks say paying by RFID is totes fine, and many other things RFID/NFC, all boils down to this single retort: How come you fucks insist on being that stupid?
In the meantime, signal boosters mean that storing the fob "as far as you can from your car" isn't great advice, certainly not for the many people that live in mostly wooden houses. A metal box, say a key cabinet, is a much better idea. Just be sure to keep it closed.
My wife's previous employers had a gloriously silly example of the earlier days of wireless proximity key fobs/cards. (this was in one of the Renault models.)
Essentially, the car was designed with a push-button starter, and unlike some of them, the key card only had to be near the car (they had a much more sensible version where there was a slot the card had to go into to make everything work) to start the engine.
You can already see where this is going. Sales rep has his key card in his coat pocket which hangs by his front door. Close enough for the car to register the card and be able to start, Goes out, starts engine, drives off. Leaves coat at home (along with card). The way those systems were designed, for safety purposes, once the engine was started you didn't need the card inserted/in proximity to keep it running. So he had no idea there was a problem. 200 miles later, he parks up, shuts the car off, and goes into work. 6 hours later he comes out, finds out he hasn't got his card.
Which is 200 miles away.
Nobody else had house keys to get in to get his key to bring it to him. You had to order the replacement cards from Renault in France so no spare. Unintended consequences indeed.
"How fine you look when dressed in rage."
While the OP report might be inaccurate, this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pffcngJJq0 released by West Midlands Police (UK) on Nov 26, 2017 shows both opening the car and starting its engine using the attack. It was a Mercedes car.
Clearly we need a hosts file for our cars now...
On my Sonata, I have a smart-key fob like that, it's in my pocket and if I'm less than a foot of the door, pressing the button on the handle unlocks the door. But to start the car, the fob must be in the car, else you have a warning in the dash saying this. And even if the thieves are using a booster and move it into the car to start it, after they drive ~100 yards, the engine will stop because it does not detect anymore the fob in the car. Right?
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Put your keys into an old steel coffee can. :)
Another excuse to drink more coffee.
This has been first reported nearly a decade ago, I'm not sure what's "news" about it today.
Oh.. so now companies will start selling KeyFob case which can block the signals!
Why do companies always make decisions FOR you that are stupid. Newer software guis and designs are idiotic, newer products don't work as well or are complete crap and some wanker thinks "Hey lets get rid of everyones keys and make it all crypto radio based, I'm sure it can't be hacked!". I'll be trying to find what cars I can buy with a key that still remain (Even though they can still steal it, it's tougher in some respects). On top of that, if I have to be forced in to a car that has a keyfob (With Police remote shut off coming soon! By the way), I guess we'll have to put in a physical disconnect switch to disable the freaking start module. Tech companies are amazingly untrustworthy, if they're not stealing your data, spying on you or f'ing you in someway then it's not 'murica.
That's the right approach. The vehicle alone can do this without any change to the keyfob. In particular, it would be an update to the BCM - Body Control Module - which interacts with key fobs.
This has been discovered and published by ETH Zürich as far back as 2011 and more on it in 2015. The car industry has basically been ignoring it and trying to sweep it under the rug. At most you will find a hint in the fine print that the keyless entry option has its downsides.
It is a relay attack which can work up to 400 meters (in 2015) and e.g. here is a detailed explanation (in German though) from 2015 https://www.heise.de/ct/ausgabe/2015-26-Autodiebe-tricksen-kontaktlose-Schliesssysteme-aus-3013915.html
Either you shield your keyfob at home or hope that manufacturers will offer a solution, which so far they havenâ(TM)t because a simple press of a button would not be âoeconvenientâ enough I guess. Or they check the response times to know how far the keyfob is actually from the car which even the relay couldnâ(TM)t fake because physics but that costs more money somehow, I guess??? /. only now because plenty of fancy cars have been boosted like this over the years. (Even my boss had her brand new sports car stolen on the day she had been given the keys, so yea there must have been an âoeorderâ for it.)
I am very surprised to see this on
"Only one thing is impossible for God: To find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." - Mark Twain
This has been very widely known and reported for years and years and years.
Hell I think Gone in 60 Seconds showed this back 15 years ago???
I'm sure this is a real thing, but it reads like something published by Ann Landers and sent by grandmothers everywhere via email and FB to everyone they know.
I have a "Zero Policy" tolerance.
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