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Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere (geekwire.com)
It's been called the "Super Bowl of Astronomy," but when the American Astronomical Society's winter meeting plays out in Seattle this week, some of the stars won't be taking the field. From a report: The AAS meeting is just one of the scientific endeavors diminished by the partial government shutdown in Washington, D.C., which entered its 17th day today. NASA representatives, and researchers whose travel would typically be funded by NASA, have had to cancel their plans to be in Seattle due to the tiff involving the Trump administration and Republicans on one side, and Democrats on the other.
The shutdown affects only a quarter of the federal government -- which means that the Defense Department and the Energy Department can continue research and development activities. Work continues as well at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and at the National Institutes of Health. But most employees at NASA as well as at the Agriculture Department, the Interior Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service are on furlough. Further reading: National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown.
The shutdown affects only a quarter of the federal government -- which means that the Defense Department and the Energy Department can continue research and development activities. Work continues as well at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and at the National Institutes of Health. But most employees at NASA as well as at the Agriculture Department, the Interior Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service are on furlough. Further reading: National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown.
Yea, it will only cost you 5 Billion and the next national election..... Don't be fooled, this isn't about money... it's about votes.... For BOTH sides.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I thought that was why they charged 50,000 a year and had a 10 billion dollar endowment...but it turns out that was just to pay for the Diversity Officers.
Why are you on Slashdot, if you hate science this much?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
to figure out that if your employer is $21 TRILLION dollars in DEBT, your job and its regular paychecks are hardly guaranteed.
Given the state of global warming, wouldn't we all be better off if this "conference" was held virtually in cyberspace instead of wasting fossil fuels for everybody to travel?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
And precisely zero come in over the US-Mexico border outside a normal point of entry.
The emergency Trump is citing is phony floor to ceiling.
Why are you on Slashdot, if you hate science this much?
"Hating" science is not the same thing as disagreeing with how it is funded. Something is wrong with our society when space science funding is suspended because of a political disagreement over "The Wall". It is hard to imagine two things that should be more unrelated.
Where was your outrage when Obama did the EXACT SAME THING over ObamaCare? Hypocritical clowns.
Considering that never happened, it's hard to see any hypocrisy here. Assuming you mean the 2013 shutdown, Obama was using the veto threat only to prevent new legislation to de-fund Obamacare from being passed. Congress was free to strip new legislation from the bills and get them passed. In this case both the House and Senate have shown willingness to pass bills without new wall related legislation (the 115th Senate was literally unanimous) to keep the government funded.
Both scenarios may have resulted in a shutdown, but no meaningful details are similar.
Trump and McConnell are the ONLY problem actors here. Trump for threatening veto and McConnell for refusing to bring a bill to vote. Any somewhat functional Senate would just override Trump's veto.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Yea, it will only cost you 5 Billion and the next national election..... Don't be fooled, this isn't about money... it's about votes.... For BOTH sides.
This is the type of thought which allows people like Trump to get elected. Once you convince yourself no politicians actually care about the electorate at any level, who cares who gets voted in?
What caused Trump to get elected was lack of any other choices, and the high entertainment value.
I have nothing against having a woman as president. Just not a Clinton. or a Kennedy. or a Bush. We've had enough of that.
With very few exceptions, there aren't that many Congress Critters that should be re-elected.
Tell Pelosi and Schumer to stop putting a damper on science in Seattle!
Or maybe Donald should keep his campaign promises. He said the Mexicans would pay for the wall, and now he wants my taxes to pay for it.
Nancy and Chuck should hold him to his word. Good for them.
Only Democrats use science anyway.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Congress is free to keep the border wall in the legislation.
Congress is free to keep the border wall in the legislation.
The border wall was not in the last budget, so adding it is not the status quo. Shutting down the government because it won't fund your pet project is not the same thing as vetoing bills trying to affect previously passed legislation by de-funding it. This isn't rocket science here.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
It's kind of amazing how quickly this turned into a "Trump vs Democrats" issue when Republicans still hold the Senate and also the house when the budget impasse started. It's a theater, and someone is playing their part very well, to shift the blame in that way.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Not necessarily. I worked on an experiment at Fermilab for a few years during a period when FNAL had furloughs (IIRC due to surprise budget cuts) and their employees were not even allowed to turn up to the office on their furlough days under threat of discipline (although to be honest I think it was more bark than bite). I thought it was rather bizarre at the time because they had no problem working weekends but apparently furloughs were not the same. This just goes to show that when dealing with government regulations in unusual circumstances common sense is not a good guide.
Oh, sorry... The current cost is set at 5.6 Billion, my mistake.
Back in the 70's, 6 Million could buy you a Bionic Man.
Today, a wall costs you 6 Billion.
Wow, now that is inflation!
Could we maybe build a troop of 70's Bionic Men to patrol the border, instead of a wall . . . ?
That maybe would be a compromise that both parties could accept, and reopen the government again.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I can't possibly imagine why Trump supporters aren't infuriated at being asked to pay for a wall that he repeatedly promised he wasn't going to make the American taxpayers pay for.
Republicans need their own Nancy Pelosi to keep everyone in line. Last time Dems had that much power, Pelosi ramrodded Obamacare through.
Pelosi is very skillful but in fairness, Democrat leadership was more unified about the need for healthcare than Republicans were for the wall. Paul Ryan just didn't care about the wall or what Trump wanted.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
And the answer is to decentralize the funding sources.
That is one solution.
Another is to create endowments for basic science, so funding is not buffeted by every political tantrum.
Yet another solution would be to ban peacetime deficit spending, so that the proposed wall would require an immediate tax increase.
Really? I cannot see Clinton whining about and generally causing NATO headaches. And she was unlikely to be Putin's cockholster. I doubt she'd be stupid enough to start a trade war with China. And she wouldn't have been snookered by that whore Erdogan on Syria and sell out our allies, the Kurds, and then backtrack on the decision, and the lie about how he wasn't backtracking. She wouldn't have been stupid enough to think some idiot Great White Wall would solve immigration and drug trafficking, all in one shot...it's one amazing wall. She also wouldn't have declared war on the environment and science in general.
Yep, you got yourself one fucking genius there, just ask him. By the way, he just informed us that no one knows as much about drones as he does. Lookup Dunning-Kruger effect sometime.
Even worse, this whole sustained government shutdown makes no sense.... why does Trump need approval for funding for the wall in the first place if Mexico was going to pay for it? Either the funds are effectively there because of this "fabulous new trade deal with Mexico" as he puts it, or else Americans are paying for it. Which is it?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Who's holding who ransom?
Did Democrats suddenly experience an outbreak of fiscal responsibility?
What do you mean sudden? Which party exploded the budget with $1.5T of tax cuts for the rich? Which party deregulated banks until it caused a collapse? Which party has continually made a total mess every time they have the majority?
I not a member of either party but even I can tell it's the Republican party that has unrealistic fiscal aspirations that have all but driven this nation into the ground.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
There are plenty of sad indictments of our country. Trump beating Hilary isn't one of them.
He was the lesser evil because of his inexperience and lack of connections. So far, the last 2 years (besides the hyperbolic press) have been mundane status quo governance. The most contentious things are undoing bad actions from the previous administration.
He may be a buffoon but we have always known this and that was on the table during the election. A dumb buffoon is better than a smart well established crook that is in bed with the media.
As you say, smart people can still be affected by tribal mentality. How tribal is it to have a policy of "anything against Trump". I mean, the whole Syria pull out is a prime example. Dems are now sounding like the warhawks.
Problem is, all those American factories which manufactured leisure suits back in the 1970s have been shuttered for a few decades - and you can't have a bionic man without his leisure suit.
#DeleteChrome
I'll be honest, that's not an area where logic is effective. Just call Trump a liar and be done with it, everyone will agree. Enough people will still support him, though.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Wtf are you talking about with your last sentence there?
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
1) The government may pay back bills when they get funded, but they most certainly will not reimburse even exempt employees for non-green lit expenses. And the employees who green-light are probably furloughed. 2) Odds are they're not even allowed to show up. I went to an event in the last shut down with heavy involvement by government employees. They weren't allowed to come into the offsite event while furloughed under threats of pretty bad punishments. Literally, they could go pretty much anywhere but their office or the event.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Fun fact, 800,000 direct government employees. Far more than that in the private sector. For instance, cafeteria workers close to government offices have had their shifts just cancelled. And unlike government employees, they won't get backpay.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
And more than those 60ish million people voted for a specific not-Trump. To say nothing of the 240ish million who, via not voting, supported the rough status quo.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
I don't hate science. I love science. I hate government schills pretending to do science when in reality they're only writing grants to get taxpayer money and doing no real science at all.
William Proxmire is that you ? I heard you were dead.
I don't know why you say "lately". Reagan, Gingrich and Bush Jr. weren't fiscally responsible either.
I will say that H.W. was the most fiscally responsible leader we've had in Washington in 100 years, even sacrificing his approval ratings (and second term) to put the budget in order.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
The House just passed the same budget bill that the Senate passed 3 weeks ago. The Senate isn't reauthorizing it because Trump said he no longer likes it because Hannity told him he didn't.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Pretty much every Republican commentator says "we can get along without this". But, it's not a matter of balls. It's just a stupid assertion. You never point to a specific single thing you think is a mistake. You say "the sky hasn't fallen yet, so none of it must have been important." But there's no evidence you actually know the state of things.
I mean, if your plane's engines fail (as a passenger), you're going to still have a good amount of time before you'll even notice the issue, let alone crash.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
there's reports that "The Wall" was invented by his handlers in the campaign as a mnemonic to remember to hammer immigration. That's why it's almost childishly simple. It's not a policy, it's a memory trick to keep him from going too far off script. This is the level we're at now, folks.
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Virtually all terrorists come in via plane and sea, the remainder drive from inside the US.
And how is it that you (or whomever originally made the claim) KNOW this to be true? It's really hard to check when the people in question are NOT coming in through anywhere they can be checked.
Like election fraud: All the "There's little to no election fraud occurring." claims turn out to really be: "There's little to no PROSECUTION of election fraud." This is as easily explained by the claim that the people in power have no incentive to change the system that PUT them in power: The results would be either:
- Not enough change to make a difference.
- Any change that DOES make a difference kicks some of them OUT of power.
In both the "no terrorists across the effectively open border" and "no significant election fraud", more information is necessary to support (or falsify) the claim. To gather that information, in the case of the first claim, you need to check substantially all the incoming border crossers.
What does the infrastructure needed to perform that check look like? Maybe a wall along the border, so essentially all the border crossers have to do so at ports-of-entry?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
why does Trump need approval for funding for the wall in the first place if Mexico was going to pay for it?
1. Because even if Mexico DOES pay for it he needs congressional approval to spend the money through normal pathways.
2. Because congressional action is necessary to set up the laws (even trade-agreement implementing laws) that enforce Mexico paying for it.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
[Trump] was the lesser evil because of his inexperience and lack of connections. So far, the last 2 years (besides the hyperbolic press) have been mundane status quo governance.
Wow. I mean, wow. [...reading it again...] Wow. [...shaking my head...]
He may be a buffoon but we have always known this and that was on the table during the election. A dumb buffoon is better than a smart well established crook that is in bed with the media.
Okay ... I doubt anyone can get you to change your mind about Hillary Clinton being a crook. Fine. But consider this: given a choice between voting for the knave and voting for the fool, you should vote for the knave. Why? Because the knave is competent. But watch the knave like a hawk. Hell, watch anyone in power like a hawk.
As you say, smart people can still be affected by tribal mentality. How tribal is it to have a policy of "anything against Trump". I mean, the whole Syria pull out is a prime example. Dems are now sounding like the warhawks.
I guess you have been reading selective accounts of current events. Even the Rs don't like the way DJT is pulling out of Syria. And several erstwhile cabinet-members who are generals didn't like it either.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Which do you think will gain more popular support funding 10 guys looking for exoplanets, or keeping 10,000 construction workers from losing theirs to illegals ?
Can you expand on that? Because it looks a lot like a false equivalence. How is funding for "10 guys looking for exoplanets" mutually exclusive with "10,000 construction workers from losing their [planet? job? something]"? You're suggesting that if we spend our money on one of those, then we can't have the other one? Do the 10 guys have to be looking for exoplanets, or could they be doing anything that advances science? Do the 10,000 people need to be working in construction or could they be doing any manual-labor job? Or any job at all, maybe?
Moreover, why exactly are the guys losing their jobs to "illegals?" It's already illegal to hire people not allowed to be in the country, so why are their employers firing the US citizens and hiring undocumented workers to take their place? Shouldn't one of those ten thousand people report their employer?
Also, why are these even being compared? Those ten guys use government funding, sure, assuming that they're working for NASA, but why exactly are those ten thousand manual laborers being paid with public dollars? Don't they work for private companies? Are we subsidizing another industry now?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
mundane status quo governance
In terms of actual legislation, you're right. Trump is a very weak president who can't get anything done because his whole MO is about dividing the country, and that has the effect of paralyzing congress. A stronger Republican president would certainly have killed the Affordable Care Act, for example.
However, legislation is not the issue here. The real threat that Trump poses, the thing that makes him such a disaster, is that he is destroying public trust in the institutions which protect us from people like him. For example, it's the role of the media to expose corrupt politicians. They're supposed to attack people like Trump mercilessly, that is their job. That's why we have freedom of the press enshrined in the first amendment: it's the only way that democracy can function.
So that's what the press does, they attack Trump for his many lies and failures. He doesn't apologize and say that he'll stop lying, he doesn't try to learn or otherwise mitigate his incompetence, and he doesn't reform his self-serving ways, instead he claims that every story which makes him look bad is a lie and that the press are out to get him. This is true, because going after him is their job, but he has managed to convince a large segment of the population that they shouldn't be doing this and so they shouldn't be trusted. If the only trustworthy source of information about the president is the president himself, and his sycophants, then democracy fails.
And that's just one example. How about something smaller? It's been common practice for decades that a presidential candidate should release his tax returns. This isn't a rule though, it's a custom, so Trump decided to ignore it and the voters allowed him to get away with that. Thus the custom is broken and any individual as corrupt as Trump in this way can now run for president in the future, free from the burden of not cheating on his taxes.
So with just these two examples (of many) we can see that while Trump is too weak to cause much legislative damage himself, he has opened the door for much worse people in the future. Any Machiavellian schemer can see that with even an iota of subtlety he could do what Trump has done and, unlike Trump, he could get away with it. This is the real damage that Trump has caused to our country.
it wasn't a trick to get votes, it was a trick to get Donald Trump to remember to talk about immigration.
In other words, the president of the United States couldn't remember basic immigration talking points without a simple, 3 word chant ("Build the Wall!"). That's the scary part. It means even during the campaign Trump wasn't all there, his handlers knew it, and they knew how to hide it.
Now try to imagine the state he's in now after 2 years of pressure from the highest office in the world. Seen Obama lately? He looks like he's aged _way_ more than 8 years...
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Because the knave is competent. But watch the knave like a hawk.
You missed part of my description. "In bed with the media". We already saw what happens when the media doesn't do it's job in accounting for a president with Obama. "Zero scandal president." Pfff. Trump is being watched like a Hawk and I doubt that Clinton would have even remotely been given a tenth of the same scrutiny. If "being watch liked a hawk" is your guard against bad leadership then Trump is better because the media will actually report on the crap he does. The problem is because they are so blinded by their hate they produce garbage narrative that gets ignored.
Even the Rs don't like the way DJT is pulling out of Syria. And several erstwhile cabinet-members who are generals didn't like it either.
What makes you think I agree with it or that I ignored the R's? I even liked Mattis. I don't even know if it's a good decision but the point is that the "pro peace" dems have warhawk rhetoric now. The same rhetoric as McCain in 2008. "Stay in Afghanistan for 100 years.".
He was a billionaire for Pete's sake. He's got extensive connections to every major bank in existence. And he's in deep with the mob, including the Russian mob.
And so what if he's a dumb buffoon. Do you think he's running the show? His cabinet is full of the same Goldman Sachs guys who have been screwing you for 30 years.
Hilary would have been bad juju, sure, but she would have been the stable bad juju. She'd have been the conservative option (real conservative, e.g. opposed to change). And we coulda had Bernie if folks showed up to the primary.
Still, Trump was _not_ the lessor of two evils. This will become apparent as his pro-corporate SCOTUS nominees gut what few consumer protection rules and Wall Street bank regulations there are left. Unless there's a massive correction to the crap he's blitheringly signed off on we're going to have a major crash in about 4-6 years. Right after he's out of office and doesn't have to shoulder the blame, funny that.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
There were only 2 contenders. Sorry, but that's a fact.
Trump is the best chance we've had in decades of getting the Ds and Rs to dump the dirt they've got on each other. Then we get two new parties that might not be hopelessly corrupt.
I'm in a safe D state, I didn't vote for Trump.
Vermin Supreme 2020! Surely you noticed how incompetent the prominent 3rd party candidates were last cycle? The Greeny was a bad joke, the Libertarian couldn't speak. Hillary had people everywhere trying to engineer every aspect. I'll bet she not only fixed the D primaries, she fixed the R primaries as well. She wanted Trump, knowing how bad a candidate she was.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'm curious. Do you know how many Senators there are? HINT: two per State, and President Obama was a little high on his estimate of the number of States when he talked about all 57 of them...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
So while the government is shutdown they have to go 'full Junket'? No work, just party? Nice.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Obamacare wasn't part of the status quo whats your point?
Obamacare had been passed over 3 years earlier, and was certainly the status quo. It was passed legislation.
Its basically President vs Congress each time thats all that matters.
That is a very shallow way of looking at it. If you think every time a President and Congress dispute each other the nuance of their disagreement doesn't matter, it is impossible for you to have an intelligent discussion about this.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Well, it depends. If having people come on to my land means I have to pay tens of thousands a year for them, and I cannot realistically get rid of them (because there are some sanctuary laws in place), then I put up the fence. Can I come into your house and just squat until I feel it's time that I should go - and until then, you have to provide food, shelter, and care?
As far as ineffective, I keep hearing that from politicians, but the border patrol agents - those who actually work there daily - overwhelmingly say that a wall would work and help. So we have politicians and talking heads saying one thing, and the actual agents saying another. Why do we listen to the pointy-haired boss over the on-the-line engineer?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Moreover, why exactly are the guys losing their jobs to "illegals?" It's already illegal to hire people not allowed to be in the country, so why are their employers firing the US citizens and hiring undocumented workers to take their place?
Because the Americans are lazy and do poor work in comparison. That's how it was when I worked at a place that hired illegals.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Something is wrong with our society when space science funding is suspended because of a political disagreement over "The Wall".
Something is wrong in your society in general when funding for operational services are suspended because of political disagreement for any new law or proposal. The science part is completely irrelevant. Other countries have laws that specifically state that you can't tack anything not related to operational budget to the operational budget bill.
In the second paragraph of your source it says "The Treasury Department reported this week that individual income tax collections for FY 2018 totaled $1.7 trillion. That's up $14 billion from fiscal 2017". Wow, up $14B out of $1.7T, around 0.8% growth in an economy with around 3.5% growth. Way up!
Reading the article further does supply some useful numbers:
So actual revenues are only up 0.5% (several other sources say 0.4%), that's less than inflation so in real dollars revenues are down (this non-profit, bi-partisan organization estimates down 1.5% in real-money terms and down 4.3% in relation to the GDP) . Corporations are paying a lot less and individuals are paying a little bit more, and the difference is being added to the deficit. The revenue is much less than the Republicans claimed it would be when the tax cuts were being debated, heck Mnuchin said that revenues would rise so much that it would actually decrease the deficit instead of the $1.5 trillion the CBO estimated at that time it would add to the debt over the next 10 years. Even that outlook was too rosy, they CBO says the current estimate of the tax cut's cost is adding $2 trillion in debt. Calling revenue that is falling in real dollars "way up" is par for the course for you, but limit your hyperbole to "tens of thousands of dollars" per illegal immigrant, bullshit claims on taxes are too easily refuted.
Enigma
My only brush with organized crime in USA was with M-13. They brutally murdered a son of my acquiescence.
THAT's the problem. Illegals are perfect community for these degenerates that liberal public loves so much. Muslims are subjected to "terrorism enhancement" all the time, while organized crime gets slap on the wrist despite the fact that they kill disproportionately larger amount of people as part of their gang activity, starting from killing absolutely innocent people that have no relation to any of the traditional gang territories as part of gang initiation.
It's a disgrace. Putting a stop to cross-border human trafficking is a good start to reduce this ground.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
"Because the Americans are lazy and do poor work in comparison. That's how it was when I worked at a place that hired illegals."
Americans won't work hard for shit money. Illegals have been fucked so hard that our shit money looks like good money to them. So we get yet another race to the bottom as those willing to hire illegals outcompete those not willing to do so. We never would have got here in the first place without government enabling it, though. Deportation is used as a profit maximization tool. Just call ICE in to be there when you hand out the last check of the season. And they won't show up before then if you just grease the wheels correctly...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Virtually all terrorists in the USA are home-grown. Taking history into account, the number which have come in from outside amount to a rounding error. (And most of them come from Saudi Arabia, but we're spending our effort banning people from OTHER countries.) Absolutely none of this is about security, let alone terrorism.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"