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Government Shutdown is Putting a Damper on Science in Seattle and Elsewhere (geekwire.com)
It's been called the "Super Bowl of Astronomy," but when the American Astronomical Society's winter meeting plays out in Seattle this week, some of the stars won't be taking the field. From a report: The AAS meeting is just one of the scientific endeavors diminished by the partial government shutdown in Washington, D.C., which entered its 17th day today. NASA representatives, and researchers whose travel would typically be funded by NASA, have had to cancel their plans to be in Seattle due to the tiff involving the Trump administration and Republicans on one side, and Democrats on the other.
The shutdown affects only a quarter of the federal government -- which means that the Defense Department and the Energy Department can continue research and development activities. Work continues as well at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and at the National Institutes of Health. But most employees at NASA as well as at the Agriculture Department, the Interior Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service are on furlough. Further reading: National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown.
The shutdown affects only a quarter of the federal government -- which means that the Defense Department and the Energy Department can continue research and development activities. Work continues as well at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and at the National Institutes of Health. But most employees at NASA as well as at the Agriculture Department, the Interior Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service are on furlough. Further reading: National Parks Face Years of Damage From Government Shutdown.
Yea, it will only cost you 5 Billion and the next national election..... Don't be fooled, this isn't about money... it's about votes.... For BOTH sides.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I thought that was why they charged 50,000 a year and had a 10 billion dollar endowment...but it turns out that was just to pay for the Diversity Officers.
Oh, sorry... The current cost is set at 5.6 Billion, my mistake.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Virtually all terrorists come in via plane and sea, the remainder drive from inside the US.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Remind me, how many workers is he holding to ransom over this? 800,000?
Yea, it will only cost you 5 Billion and the next national election..... Don't be fooled, this isn't about money... it's about votes.... For BOTH sides.
This is the type of thought which allows people like Trump to get elected. Once you convince yourself no politicians actually care about the electorate at any level, who cares who gets voted in?
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
I agree! Science needs to paid by business! Business who needs the results to skew their way!
Why I find that the cigarette companies' findings proven false to be a travesty
Or the industry who promoted Tetraethyllead to be robbed!
And of course the current situation of fossil fuel companies fighting to discredit "GlooooooBal Waaarming!" hoax!
I mean seriously!! We all know that profit seeking entities will always do what's best for people!
I was thinking more of crowdfunding, but whatever. If the science is actually worthwhile, shouldn't you be able to find an audience of people among the 7 billion on the planet who are wondering the same thing and are willing to throw the cost of a cup of coffee at it?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Why are you on Slashdot, if you hate science this much?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
to figure out that if your employer is $21 TRILLION dollars in DEBT, your job and its regular paychecks are hardly guaranteed.
Given the state of global warming, wouldn't we all be better off if this "conference" was held virtually in cyberspace instead of wasting fossil fuels for everybody to travel?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
..and here I am thinking... money for travel to a non-governmental conference shouldnt come from the government at all.
"His name was James Damore."
Trump WAS the lesser evil. Until you get that, you will continue to be perplexed.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It was Congresses fault then. Its Trump's fault now because reasons..,.
Why are you on Slashdot, if you hate science this much?
"Hating" science is not the same thing as disagreeing with how it is funded. Something is wrong with our society when space science funding is suspended because of a political disagreement over "The Wall". It is hard to imagine two things that should be more unrelated.
Where was your outrage when Obama did the EXACT SAME THING over ObamaCare? Hypocritical clowns.
Considering that never happened, it's hard to see any hypocrisy here. Assuming you mean the 2013 shutdown, Obama was using the veto threat only to prevent new legislation to de-fund Obamacare from being passed. Congress was free to strip new legislation from the bills and get them passed. In this case both the House and Senate have shown willingness to pass bills without new wall related legislation (the 115th Senate was literally unanimous) to keep the government funded.
Both scenarios may have resulted in a shutdown, but no meaningful details are similar.
Trump and McConnell are the ONLY problem actors here. Trump for threatening veto and McConnell for refusing to bring a bill to vote. Any somewhat functional Senate would just override Trump's veto.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
:-) Not like the church that used the taxes back in their heyday to execute the scientists. I mean, they were heretics, right? They needed killin'!
However, you are correct: ...to prove predetermined conclusions.
I remember Nixon trying that with his marijuana studies. He burned the report when it didn't produce the results he was demanding. Politics is everywhere, turtles all the way down. The majority that's stealing all your money is a gangster with a gun, and it's even properly registered! How do you rebel against the majority?
Apparently some (but not all) government workers are pulling out of talks and other events as well due to the shutdown, CES included - Pai was apparently only the start of it, although I suspect, like Pai, some are probably just using the shutdown as an excuse. YMMV as to whether anything of value has been lost, naturally.
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Yea, it will only cost you 5 Billion and the next national election..... Don't be fooled, this isn't about money... it's about votes.... For BOTH sides.
This is the type of thought which allows people like Trump to get elected. Once you convince yourself no politicians actually care about the electorate at any level, who cares who gets voted in?
What caused Trump to get elected was lack of any other choices, and the high entertainment value.
I have nothing against having a woman as president. Just not a Clinton. or a Kennedy. or a Bush. We've had enough of that.
With very few exceptions, there aren't that many Congress Critters that should be re-elected.
...and pay 18% interest on the credit card debt until you get reimbursed? That's why I hate travelling on business, minimum of a month to get reimbursed, and the company thinks _I_ should cover the interest!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Tell Pelosi and Schumer to stop putting a damper on science in Seattle!
Or maybe Donald should keep his campaign promises. He said the Mexicans would pay for the wall, and now he wants my taxes to pay for it.
Nancy and Chuck should hold him to his word. Good for them.
Only Democrats use science anyway.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
And the answer is to decentralize the funding sources.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Congress is free to keep the border wall in the legislation.
Trump WAS the lesser evil. Until you get that, you will continue to be perplexed.
Until you understand that is nowhere close to being true, you will continue to be perplexed by nearly any complex topic.
That is not technically true. Plenty of smart people can still be affected by tribal mentality. Most of the time it is hard to know which tribe is being more ridiculous, but in this case the US literally elected someone who doesn't even know what the President does, other than it is a powerful position. He is a buffoon whose only skill is public relations (and the benefit of a complete lack of moral character) and it is a sad indictment of our country that good PR plus being born into a wealthy family is all it takes to be President.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
5 billion dollars? It's about the money, and who gets to launder it, er.. pocket it, I mean spend it! Okay yeah, it's for votes. They need us to 'sign the check', so to speak.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Given what the Bavarian and Argentinian branches of the Roman Catholic Church have been up to, I'm also against the Church taking public taxes.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Congress is free to keep the border wall in the legislation.
The border wall was not in the last budget, so adding it is not the status quo. Shutting down the government because it won't fund your pet project is not the same thing as vetoing bills trying to affect previously passed legislation by de-funding it. This isn't rocket science here.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Not necessarily. I worked on an experiment at Fermilab for a few years during a period when FNAL had furloughs (IIRC due to surprise budget cuts) and their employees were not even allowed to turn up to the office on their furlough days under threat of discipline (although to be honest I think it was more bark than bite). I thought it was rather bizarre at the time because they had no problem working weekends but apparently furloughs were not the same. This just goes to show that when dealing with government regulations in unusual circumstances common sense is not a good guide.
Oh, sorry... The current cost is set at 5.6 Billion, my mistake.
Back in the 70's, 6 Million could buy you a Bionic Man.
Today, a wall costs you 6 Billion.
Wow, now that is inflation!
Could we maybe build a troop of 70's Bionic Men to patrol the border, instead of a wall . . . ?
That maybe would be a compromise that both parties could accept, and reopen the government again.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
I can't possibly imagine why Trump supporters aren't infuriated at being asked to pay for a wall that he repeatedly promised he wasn't going to make the American taxpayers pay for.
Yes, I would hope that people would understand what voting for the lesser evil gets them. Apparently not!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Yup.. you got that right.. so make sure you never come here.... ever! Always rains.. never a day of sun... definitely a place to be shunned!
...iOS devs pretending iOS world and any functional participation in it ceased without the comped WWDC vacation-party-networking opportunity conference.
Dare say 60 million voted for Trump specifically to shutdown the Federal government if they refused to build a wall.
The needs of the many....
it is not the status quo. .
Obamacare wasn't part of the status quo whats your point?
Shutting down the government because it won't fund your pet project is not the same thing as vetoing bills trying to affect previously passed legislation by de-funding it. This isn't rocket science here.
Theres no real technical difference. Its basically President vs Congress each time thats all that matters. Don't pretend that you'd believe in this new moral patina of 'passed legislation' you've just invented if you were on the other side.
And the answer is to decentralize the funding sources.
That is one solution.
Another is to create endowments for basic science, so funding is not buffeted by every political tantrum.
Yet another solution would be to ban peacetime deficit spending, so that the proposed wall would require an immediate tax increase.
Really? I cannot see Clinton whining about and generally causing NATO headaches. And she was unlikely to be Putin's cockholster. I doubt she'd be stupid enough to start a trade war with China. And she wouldn't have been snookered by that whore Erdogan on Syria and sell out our allies, the Kurds, and then backtrack on the decision, and the lie about how he wasn't backtracking. She wouldn't have been stupid enough to think some idiot Great White Wall would solve immigration and drug trafficking, all in one shot...it's one amazing wall. She also wouldn't have declared war on the environment and science in general.
Yep, you got yourself one fucking genius there, just ask him. By the way, he just informed us that no one knows as much about drones as he does. Lookup Dunning-Kruger effect sometime.
There are plenty of sad indictments of our country. Trump beating Hilary isn't one of them.
He was the lesser evil because of his inexperience and lack of connections. So far, the last 2 years (besides the hyperbolic press) have been mundane status quo governance. The most contentious things are undoing bad actions from the previous administration.
He may be a buffoon but we have always known this and that was on the table during the election. A dumb buffoon is better than a smart well established crook that is in bed with the media.
As you say, smart people can still be affected by tribal mentality. How tribal is it to have a policy of "anything against Trump". I mean, the whole Syria pull out is a prime example. Dems are now sounding like the warhawks.
Taxes = crowdfunding with a gun.
Then tell your Mistress Nancy to support the $5 billion.
Shit...Democrats spend more than that on butt lube.
nope, you have no clue what the OP meant. He said just pay for it and then file a T&E for the trip after the government opens up again in a couple of weeks. If these elite scientists are so stupid as to not have more than a single paycheck's worth of bucks in the bank, they don't deserve to be scientists making decisions for the nation.
Have a Day!
I live in CA, my vote was wasted in any case. So I voted Vermin Supreme.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It got us less evil. Not no evil, but that wasn't a choice.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Problem is, all those American factories which manufactured leisure suits back in the 1970s have been shuttered for a few decades - and you can't have a bionic man without his leisure suit.
#DeleteChrome
It's interesting how many people continue to pretend that the Republicans hold the Senate when it takes 60 votes to get a budget passed.
Democrats are holding up the process.
Republicans have been ready to go.
Mexico would have paid for the wall long ago if the Democrats hadn't blocked the efforts.
Work Safe Porn
Live in a constitutionally limited democracy?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
the high entertainment value.
This cannot be understated. Politics has been almost like a comedy show than anything these last 2-3 years. Makes me want to vote for the guy in 2020 just to keep the entertainment alive.
My personal favorites:
Warren 1/2020th.
Women clawing at SCOTUS doors.
To Canadian PM: Didn't you guys burn down the WH?
CNN wrestling meme tweet.
People walking on a highway at night to protest election results. (Spoiler, someone got hit)
In all the "look at all the shit that's not working because of Trump" stories, I have yet to read anyone express the slightest question about - should the Federal government really be running all this stuff?
I sincerely doubt anyone in government has the balls after this shutdown to say "Yeah, y'know, we can probably get along without that, that, and that. Nobody really missed them."
http://thefederalist.com/2014/...
-Styopa
the high entertainment value.
This cannot be understated. Politics has been almost like a comedy show than anything these last 2-3 years. Makes me want to vote for the guy in 2020 just to keep the entertainment alive.
My personal favorites:
Warren 1/2020th.
Women clawing at SCOTUS doors.
To Canadian PM: Didn't you guys burn down the WH?
CNN wrestling meme tweet.
People walking on a highway at night to protest election results. (Spoiler, someone got hit)
I just hope (and I am by no means anything near an optimist) someone worth electing is actually nominated by a party for 2020.
I'm not holding my breath though.
1) The government may pay back bills when they get funded, but they most certainly will not reimburse even exempt employees for non-green lit expenses. And the employees who green-light are probably furloughed. 2) Odds are they're not even allowed to show up. I went to an event in the last shut down with heavy involvement by government employees. They weren't allowed to come into the offsite event while furloughed under threats of pretty bad punishments. Literally, they could go pretty much anywhere but their office or the event.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
The one thing you got right in your entire spiel, yes, progressives would never sign off on something as dumb as what you just described, mr flat tax moron from 1995.
Yet another solution would be to ban peacetime deficit spending, so that the proposed wall would require an immediate tax increase.
Or the voters could cut budgets. Which do you think will gain more popular support funding 10 guys looking for exoplanets, or keeping 10,000 construction workers from losing theirs to illegals ?
Even the Democrats understand this as every major Democrat has taken the position that illegal immigration is wrong they just remarkably choose to do nothing after elections.
I don't hate science. I love science. I hate government schills pretending to do science when in reality they're only writing grants to get taxpayer money and doing no real science at all.
William Proxmire is that you ? I heard you were dead.
Interstate commerce clause, you can make anything and everything constitutional with it.
You 'cannot see'...hence you are blind and apparently know it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It's more like Trump vs Democrats vs Republicans.
I don't subscribe to the "Listen and Believe" model of journalism perpetuated by media and many on the left.
I think for myself. Scary I know especially for a NPC.
You're being a moron in defense of a traitor's ever-changing bullshit promises to the basest of bases, racist faggots. The wall has nothing to do with actual border security whatsoever, it's a joke.
Face it, you're a tap-dancing faggot on a traitor's tiny toad-shaped penis. You will never have a brain of any caliber or worth, deplorable morons will never matter.
Trump will hang either way and there's nothing you inbred toothless meth traitors can do about it.
Same reason democrats weren't infuriated when they couldn't keep their doctor or insurance plan?
When you have promises "improved health care" and "keep your doctor". If you get the former the later isn't as important.*
When you have a promises "border wall" and "Mexico pays for it". If you get the former the later isn't as important.
*Not making a quantitative judgment on the ACA but rather the perception of what it means to an average Democrat.
You can keep bringing up the fact that Mexico is indeed not going to pay for the wall and that makes Trump a poopy head. But you're only preaching to the choir that already hate Trump.
It's very easy to understand someones position. Listen to them instead of pretending you know their thoughts. It's understood by many that the "Mexico will pay for the wall" to mean that we will get a better trade deal that will save us billions. Disagree. Agree, I don't care but "Can't possibly imagine"? Yikes.
there's reports that "The Wall" was invented by his handlers in the campaign as a mnemonic to remember to hammer immigration. That's why it's almost childishly simple. It's not a policy, it's a memory trick to keep him from going too far off script. This is the level we're at now, folks.
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Virtually all terrorists come in via plane and sea, the remainder drive from inside the US.
And how is it that you (or whomever originally made the claim) KNOW this to be true? It's really hard to check when the people in question are NOT coming in through anywhere they can be checked.
Like election fraud: All the "There's little to no election fraud occurring." claims turn out to really be: "There's little to no PROSECUTION of election fraud." This is as easily explained by the claim that the people in power have no incentive to change the system that PUT them in power: The results would be either:
- Not enough change to make a difference.
- Any change that DOES make a difference kicks some of them OUT of power.
In both the "no terrorists across the effectively open border" and "no significant election fraud", more information is necessary to support (or falsify) the claim. To gather that information, in the case of the first claim, you need to check substantially all the incoming border crossers.
What does the infrastructure needed to perform that check look like? Maybe a wall along the border, so essentially all the border crossers have to do so at ports-of-entry?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I expect to be even more amused in 2020 than I was in 2016. That was the hardest I laughed in a long time.
So many things to look forward to...Ginsburg kicking, Trump's reelection, Hillary's imprisonment. Guess what they have in common?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Vote Pony Party!
Everybody gets a pony.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"Well if the Dems would just get out of the way and stop obstructing, then Mexico would be paying for it already."
That's the basic rationalization, anyway, as far as I can tell.
Beware of the Leopard.
Shouldn't all legitimate travel expenses be paid by the employer? Isn't going to a X-science conference a legitimate travel expense for an X scientist? I don't see what is wrong with that. Here the employer happens to be the government.
[Trump] was the lesser evil because of his inexperience and lack of connections. So far, the last 2 years (besides the hyperbolic press) have been mundane status quo governance.
Wow. I mean, wow. [...reading it again...] Wow. [...shaking my head...]
He may be a buffoon but we have always known this and that was on the table during the election. A dumb buffoon is better than a smart well established crook that is in bed with the media.
Okay ... I doubt anyone can get you to change your mind about Hillary Clinton being a crook. Fine. But consider this: given a choice between voting for the knave and voting for the fool, you should vote for the knave. Why? Because the knave is competent. But watch the knave like a hawk. Hell, watch anyone in power like a hawk.
As you say, smart people can still be affected by tribal mentality. How tribal is it to have a policy of "anything against Trump". I mean, the whole Syria pull out is a prime example. Dems are now sounding like the warhawks.
I guess you have been reading selective accounts of current events. Even the Rs don't like the way DJT is pulling out of Syria. And several erstwhile cabinet-members who are generals didn't like it either.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Which do you think will gain more popular support funding 10 guys looking for exoplanets, or keeping 10,000 construction workers from losing theirs to illegals ?
Can you expand on that? Because it looks a lot like a false equivalence. How is funding for "10 guys looking for exoplanets" mutually exclusive with "10,000 construction workers from losing their [planet? job? something]"? You're suggesting that if we spend our money on one of those, then we can't have the other one? Do the 10 guys have to be looking for exoplanets, or could they be doing anything that advances science? Do the 10,000 people need to be working in construction or could they be doing any manual-labor job? Or any job at all, maybe?
Moreover, why exactly are the guys losing their jobs to "illegals?" It's already illegal to hire people not allowed to be in the country, so why are their employers firing the US citizens and hiring undocumented workers to take their place? Shouldn't one of those ten thousand people report their employer?
Also, why are these even being compared? Those ten guys use government funding, sure, assuming that they're working for NASA, but why exactly are those ten thousand manual laborers being paid with public dollars? Don't they work for private companies? Are we subsidizing another industry now?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
mundane status quo governance
In terms of actual legislation, you're right. Trump is a very weak president who can't get anything done because his whole MO is about dividing the country, and that has the effect of paralyzing congress. A stronger Republican president would certainly have killed the Affordable Care Act, for example.
However, legislation is not the issue here. The real threat that Trump poses, the thing that makes him such a disaster, is that he is destroying public trust in the institutions which protect us from people like him. For example, it's the role of the media to expose corrupt politicians. They're supposed to attack people like Trump mercilessly, that is their job. That's why we have freedom of the press enshrined in the first amendment: it's the only way that democracy can function.
So that's what the press does, they attack Trump for his many lies and failures. He doesn't apologize and say that he'll stop lying, he doesn't try to learn or otherwise mitigate his incompetence, and he doesn't reform his self-serving ways, instead he claims that every story which makes him look bad is a lie and that the press are out to get him. This is true, because going after him is their job, but he has managed to convince a large segment of the population that they shouldn't be doing this and so they shouldn't be trusted. If the only trustworthy source of information about the president is the president himself, and his sycophants, then democracy fails.
And that's just one example. How about something smaller? It's been common practice for decades that a presidential candidate should release his tax returns. This isn't a rule though, it's a custom, so Trump decided to ignore it and the voters allowed him to get away with that. Thus the custom is broken and any individual as corrupt as Trump in this way can now run for president in the future, free from the burden of not cheating on his taxes.
So with just these two examples (of many) we can see that while Trump is too weak to cause much legislative damage himself, he has opened the door for much worse people in the future. Any Machiavellian schemer can see that with even an iota of subtlety he could do what Trump has done and, unlike Trump, he could get away with it. This is the real damage that Trump has caused to our country.
Keep telling yourself that only 2 choices exist, citizen. Make no effort to change anything. Thank you for your cooperation.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I've got a better idea: don't hold the country hostage when the lawmakers don't want to make the laws you want them to make. They have a Constitutional duty to be a check on executive power, it's right there in the book. That's what they're doing. Both sides need to work on a budget bill to open the government, and then they can continue arguing about the wall. Holding the country hostage until the president gets what he wants is a really stupid precedent to start. I mean, for decades we've said we don't negotiate with terrorists, so why would anyone want to negotiate with someone holding hostages? It will set an awful precedent for the country, if anyone cares about the actual good of the country. Congress needs to pass a budget that they agree on, and send it to the president. Argue about the wall later. If Congress repeatedly sends budgets to the president and he doesn't sign them, then it will be obvious that he's the only one not doing his job.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Nicely stated.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
it wasn't a trick to get votes, it was a trick to get Donald Trump to remember to talk about immigration.
In other words, the president of the United States couldn't remember basic immigration talking points without a simple, 3 word chant ("Build the Wall!"). That's the scary part. It means even during the campaign Trump wasn't all there, his handlers knew it, and they knew how to hide it.
Now try to imagine the state he's in now after 2 years of pressure from the highest office in the world. Seen Obama lately? He looks like he's aged _way_ more than 8 years...
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Because the knave is competent. But watch the knave like a hawk.
You missed part of my description. "In bed with the media". We already saw what happens when the media doesn't do it's job in accounting for a president with Obama. "Zero scandal president." Pfff. Trump is being watched like a Hawk and I doubt that Clinton would have even remotely been given a tenth of the same scrutiny. If "being watch liked a hawk" is your guard against bad leadership then Trump is better because the media will actually report on the crap he does. The problem is because they are so blinded by their hate they produce garbage narrative that gets ignored.
Even the Rs don't like the way DJT is pulling out of Syria. And several erstwhile cabinet-members who are generals didn't like it either.
What makes you think I agree with it or that I ignored the R's? I even liked Mattis. I don't even know if it's a good decision but the point is that the "pro peace" dems have warhawk rhetoric now. The same rhetoric as McCain in 2008. "Stay in Afghanistan for 100 years.".
T is not really a conservative. His history is more centric, or at least vacillating. He seems to have shifted right for political reasons, not personal belief.
I don't think it's that he places zero value on Astronomy and science, but more that his wall is far more important to him and/or his current base.
If he helped fund the discovery of a new full-sized planet, he'd love that. Even if he can't get it named after himself, it's still the kind of bragging rights he so craves. But it's hard to schedule big discoveries like that such that the wall is more concrete (pun intended).
In short, his political positions are driven mostly by his ego. I'd argue his ego weighs more on his decisions than even xenophobia. (Other Presidents may have been driven by ego or xenophobia also.)
Table-ized A.I.
He was a billionaire for Pete's sake. He's got extensive connections to every major bank in existence. And he's in deep with the mob, including the Russian mob.
And so what if he's a dumb buffoon. Do you think he's running the show? His cabinet is full of the same Goldman Sachs guys who have been screwing you for 30 years.
Hilary would have been bad juju, sure, but she would have been the stable bad juju. She'd have been the conservative option (real conservative, e.g. opposed to change). And we coulda had Bernie if folks showed up to the primary.
Still, Trump was _not_ the lessor of two evils. This will become apparent as his pro-corporate SCOTUS nominees gut what few consumer protection rules and Wall Street bank regulations there are left. Unless there's a massive correction to the crap he's blitheringly signed off on we're going to have a major crash in about 4-6 years. Right after he's out of office and doesn't have to shoulder the blame, funny that.
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There were only 2 contenders. Sorry, but that's a fact.
Trump is the best chance we've had in decades of getting the Ds and Rs to dump the dirt they've got on each other. Then we get two new parties that might not be hopelessly corrupt.
I'm in a safe D state, I didn't vote for Trump.
Vermin Supreme 2020! Surely you noticed how incompetent the prominent 3rd party candidates were last cycle? The Greeny was a bad joke, the Libertarian couldn't speak. Hillary had people everywhere trying to engineer every aspect. I'll bet she not only fixed the D primaries, she fixed the R primaries as well. She wanted Trump, knowing how bad a candidate she was.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
his whole MO is about dividing the country,
No it's not. Just because there are such things as "Never Trumpers" doesn't mean his MO is to divide the country. When it gets to a point where it doesn't matter what he does it "divides" the country then it isn't Trump.
he real threat that Trump poses, the thing that makes him such a disaster, is that he is destroying public trust in the institutions which protect us from people like him.
Is that like campaigning to end the Electoral College because it didn't give the result you wanted and one of the first orders of business when you retake the House amidst a shutdown? Is that like stating you should "stack the court" to get the opinions you want? Is that like disparaging the Senate because the GOP held a majority? Is that like attacking the societal and legal standard of innocent until proven guilty or the right to face your accuser? Aren't those actual attacks on the public trust of our institutions more so than what Trump "poses"? "Protect us from people like him". You can't even be objective about the topic yet he is a threat in waiting?
it's the role of the media to expose corrupt politicians. They're supposed to attack people like Trump mercilessly, that is their job. That's why we have freedom of the press enshrined in the first amendment: it's the only way that democracy can function. ... he has managed to convince a large segment of the population that they shouldn't be doing this and so they shouldn't be trusted.
The problem is when the lie. The media lie like Claas Relotius. The problem is when the media become activists. The problem is when the media push narratives over facts. Trump tweeting a CNN wrestling is hardly an attack on CNN or journalists. The media created their own credibility problems. Trump didn't convince anyone that the media is biased and full of shit. Sander supporters didn't feel betrayed by the DNC because of Trump.
Actually, it was. The last budget passed was FY2012 - it's been continuing resolutions since then. And FY2012's budget had funding for "Border Security Fencing, Infrastructure, and Technology". Pulling that spending out of the CR is actually not allowed - as it is a change to the budget. In this case, Pelosi and Schumer are trying to do an end-run around the laws relating to continuing resolutions.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Not a single Republican voted for Obamacare. It was rammed through with a Democrat supermajority in the Senate, and Democrat control of the House.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
It got us less evil.
No it didn't. That's a lie.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
So while the government is shutdown they have to go 'full Junket'? No work, just party? Nice.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It was lie of the year. Hardly a right wing source.
Whether you agree with it or not you should have at least known about this particular gaffe/lie to understand my comment. My guess is you did know about it and understood what I was saying but wanted to be purposefully flippant.
You sure showed him! Seriously what did that accomplish?
ACs, so stupid... ACA was Federal, "Romneycare" was MA only. And ACA wasn't passed by the Republicans. But you can troll all you want!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
"Can you expand on that?"
If the concept of limited resources and zero sum games are alien to you, I probably can't in a reasonable time or in a situation where you are obviously looking for a fight rather than information. I'll just note that the country has finite budget for the government and a finite size economy. Now take a look back on what you rote and see how the above facts are incompatible with your statements.
Actually, it was. The last budget passed was FY2012 - it's been continuing resolutions since then. And FY2012's budget had funding for "Border Security Fencing, Infrastructure, and Technology". Pulling that spending out of the CR is actually not allowed - as it is a change to the budget. In this case, Pelosi and Schumer are trying to do an end-run around the laws relating to continuing resolutions.
That budget had $800 million for "Border Security, Fencing, Infrastructure, and Technology"; no where near $5 billion. The proposed budget passed by the Senate had $1.3 billion for border security, a significant increase. But there was certainly nothing in the budget bill you link to anywhere near $5 billion. The bill instead shows a decreasing level of border security construction over a three year period.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Obamacare wasn't part of the status quo whats your point?
Obamacare had been passed over 3 years earlier, and was certainly the status quo. It was passed legislation.
Its basically President vs Congress each time thats all that matters.
That is a very shallow way of looking at it. If you think every time a President and Congress dispute each other the nuance of their disagreement doesn't matter, it is impossible for you to have an intelligent discussion about this.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Anyway, the end is in sight. Trump will get the wall, Pelosi etc will get an "infrastructure" package that will mostly be a giveaway package to their friends, and the budget will be passed.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Just because there are such things as "Never Trumpers" doesn't mean his MO is to divide the country.
That's just a weird thing to say. Never Trumpers are a Republican group. I didn't say anything about dividing the Republican party, which is also something that he's doing but not his MO. That's just a side effect of being such a disgraceful person. I was talking about the whole country: his method has been to place blame for all that is wrong on Muslims, "Mexicans" (his word for Latin Americans), and Democrats. Also the Chinese.
You really shouldn't be using the word "you" when you're talking to me about Democratic congressmen, I am not a Democratic congressman. I don't know where you got that impression. However, to address your comments about the electoral college: while the electoral college was originally intended to put a buffer between the tyranny of the masses and real power (our founding fathers were terrified that uneducated poor people might be able to directly elect officials), it hasn't operated in that capacity for more than a hundred years. So no, the electoral college is not one of the institutions that I was talking about.
I don't really understand the rest of your examples... I have criticized the senate many times, usually for bad decisions that they have made. They have made many such decisions while the GOP has had a majority, though this is not the only situation under which the senate has made bad decisions. The senate makes a lot of decisions, many of which are bad. You've got several other examples of things that you think I am, or have done. I guess you think I'm some specific democratic congressman who has done all of the things that you're talking about? Which congressman do you think I am?
Trump is not a threat in waiting, he's not in waiting at all. He is a disaster in progress. I am not the slightest bit objective about Trump, that ship has sailed. I was objective about Trump at one time, then I learned about him and I formed an opinion. That's what opinions are, that's how they work.
As for your comments about the media: I had to look up who Claas Relotius was. He was a journalist who worked for Der Spiegel, until they fired him for lying. And... how do you know this? Because Der Spiegel reported it. But Der Spiegel is the media, and are therefore lying liars, so that must mean that Claas Relotius is an innocent victim of Der Spiegel... Or maybe Der Spiegel is a victim of Claas Relotius? I'm wondering how you've managed to spin this in your head so that they're both evil.
You have here a situation where a newspaper (the media) claims that they've discovered that a journalist has been submitting falsified stories, and you're holding this as an example for why we shouldn't trust the media. If you don't trust the media, why do you believe that Claas Relotius lied? Why do you believe that Claas Relotius even exists?
This is silly. All of the bullshit about "the MSM" is silly. Who watches the watchers? Other watchers, obviously. That's what they're for, that's why we have more than one.
"It is the Government's utmost responsibility to insure the continued functioning of the Government. In the event the Government is ever allowed to shut down, Shenanigans shall be declared, both houses of congress and the executive office shall be immediately disbanded and the current incumbents barred from participating in the federal government for life. New elections shall be held immediately. A fund shall be allocated and held in reserve for these elections."
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Yes, your pedantic argument that there was some wall funding in probably all budgets for decades is correct. While I was implicitly referring to trump's request for significant increases to wall funding, I didn't explicitly state that. I should have been more clear for those who couldn't understand the context.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
That's just a weird thing to say. Never Trumpers are a Republican group. I didn't say anything about dividing the Republican party,
I was using the phrase as a general term to apply to the left as well because not everyone on the left is "never Trump".
I was talking about the whole country: his method has been to place blame for all that is wrong on Muslims, "Mexicans" (his word for Latin Americans), and Democrats. Also the Chinese.
I have seen these lines repeated in various news outlets and when I see the full context and language it is hardly as damning as portrayed. Uncouthed but not "blame all Mexicans". Maybe there is a new story which this time is as bad as portrayed.
Claas Relotius
He was CNN journalist of the year. He lied for years. How can you trust CNN when their "journalist of the year" turns out to be a serial liar? You would think they would have researched the guy and his work before giving him such an award. Yes, journalism is necessary for democracy but that doesn't mean everything they say is true nor does it protect them from criticism. When the media is biased and puts forward their bias as news and actively make the news about them, they no longer are journalists. This is what has happened. Journalists are acting as activists.
you're holding this as an example for why we shouldn't trust the media.
Oh no that is just the more recent example that came to mind. I have seen too many lies in print that stupidity is hardly a satisfactory explanation. You and others put the media on a pedestal. You and others are making it as if Trump and the distrust in the media is a new thing. That they have been acting with integrity and honor and that Trump is completely baseless to criticize the media for their reporting*. That they only report facts about Trump and it's only ignorant Trumptard bigots that ignore the wisdom and glory of fact based reporting.
* Trump deserves some blame but it isn't one sided. The media are failing to do their job because many journalists and outlets were invested in Clinton and took it personally that she lost.
Because they didn't believe him in the first place. They think the wall is a good idea, no matter who pays for it.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Moreover, why exactly are the guys losing their jobs to "illegals?" It's already illegal to hire people not allowed to be in the country, so why are their employers firing the US citizens and hiring undocumented workers to take their place?
Because the Americans are lazy and do poor work in comparison. That's how it was when I worked at a place that hired illegals.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Yeah, and? In theory we already do.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Something is wrong with our society when space science funding is suspended because of a political disagreement over "The Wall".
Something is wrong in your society in general when funding for operational services are suspended because of political disagreement for any new law or proposal. The science part is completely irrelevant. Other countries have laws that specifically state that you can't tack anything not related to operational budget to the operational budget bill.
How exactly is starting a trade war with China and the EU "mundane status quo governance"?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Chuck and Nancy voted for much larger wall protection packages. The difference is in the presidency.
Whatever comes from Trump's mouth must be immediately fought.
I started Trump's presidency hating him, now, once it came to his actions, not his words, the blatant lies of opposition media, like the "dance" campaign, became pretty obvious.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
My only brush with organized crime in USA was with M-13. They brutally murdered a son of my acquiescence.
THAT's the problem. Illegals are perfect community for these degenerates that liberal public loves so much. Muslims are subjected to "terrorism enhancement" all the time, while organized crime gets slap on the wrist despite the fact that they kill disproportionately larger amount of people as part of their gang activity, starting from killing absolutely innocent people that have no relation to any of the traditional gang territories as part of gang initiation.
It's a disgrace. Putting a stop to cross-border human trafficking is a good start to reduce this ground.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
The problem is that both sides are very belligerent. Granted, Trump started it with his personality. Part of the system "doing business as usual on both sides" that people voted against by voting for him has also the ability to compromise. Sleazeballs they are, they did must less posturing in the part.
Nowadays, at this point, none of the sides can give up without a crushing political fiasco.
Of course, they will come to compromise, it's just the posturing stage that became significantly longer.
National emergency threat puts Democrats in the defending seat.
What would be their move?
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
>Trump and McConnell are the ONLY problem actors here. Trump for threatening veto and McConnell for refusing to bring a bill to vote. Any somewhat functional Senate would just override Trump's veto.
That's a simplification.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
They just don't want to spend their own money to do so.
Yes indeed scientists could instead spend their own money on doing their job rather than being paid to do it like fucking everyone else on the planet.
They'd rather have the tab for their flights their hotels, and all their meals, plus conference attendance fees, paid for by the taxpayer.
Yes this is how it works. If you do travel for business purposes your employer pays.
So far all you've added is "herp derp gubbermint sccientists" as a reason why not.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
dumb buffoon is better than a smart well established crook that is in bed with the media.
On wht grounds is Trump less of a crook than Hillary? He's done fucktons of skeezy shit.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If the concept of limited resources and zero sum games are alien to you
The world isn't a zero sum game.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Same reason democrats weren't infuriated when they couldn't keep their doctor or insurance plan?
I kept my doctor and plan. Everyone I know kept their doctor and plan. I heard about someone from the media who had to give up one of the minimal emergency plans. I don't see your analogy, given Trump now wants me to pay for his vanity project.
Well allow me to introduce myself.. I lost my plan AND my doctor because of the ACA. What's more, I pay more for my healthcare now too. So now you cannot make your claim that you know nobody who...
BTW, it's not a vanity project, it's a campaign promise that he's trying to make good on. Imagine trying to fulfill your campaign promises.. What a concept... Like him or not, want what he is trying to do or not, this is unique among political operatives these days.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Votes are money.
For some... Usually it's votes are power and power can be parlayed into money if those in power wish, but votes are expensive too when you try to buy them. Also, power can be used for good and not profit, though rare in political circles, it does happen.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I'm guessing they may make the impeachment mistake if this drags on too long, but for everybody's sake I hope they don't mess things up with that.
Personally, I think they should ask for the DACA fix or some other pet program to offset their political loss at granting the 5.6 Billion, but I'm at a loss to figure what they want badly enough to loose this hand on the border wall. You have any ideas what they might want in return?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
No, I'm suggesting the only sort of science that should be done, is that which is interesting enough to crowdfund.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I expect anything the government touches to become corrupt, especially science.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Any endowment you create will be buffeted by every political tantrum.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Because, of course, progressives are inherently dishonest.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
You've never filled out a Schedule A, have you?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Who ever said the wall would be unguarded? Those gun ports between slats are there for a reason.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Are you under the impression that the Earth is infinite?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
"It's not like the scientists get to pocket any of the money themselves. "
Because they work entirely voluntarily and eat air?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Outsource it, baby - like everything else. Get the 6 Million Rupee Man: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programm...
Trump is both the crook and the fool. His scams are well documented, verified in court.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I never understood the bionic man. His "super power" appeared to be doing normal stuff in slow motion.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Problem is that both the Ds and Rs hate Trump almost equally. If anything he will just encourage them both to ensure nothing like this happens again, e.g. even less choice of candidates next time around.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Clinton might actually being doing something useful about migration too, i.e. the long term fixes that are the only way to sort it out.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
"Because the Americans are lazy and do poor work in comparison. That's how it was when I worked at a place that hired illegals."
Americans won't work hard for shit money. Illegals have been fucked so hard that our shit money looks like good money to them. So we get yet another race to the bottom as those willing to hire illegals outcompete those not willing to do so. We never would have got here in the first place without government enabling it, though. Deportation is used as a profit maximization tool. Just call ICE in to be there when you hand out the last check of the season. And they won't show up before then if you just grease the wheels correctly...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Trade relations and negotiation between governments are mundane and common.
There was/is a growing population who feel that many of the trade deals we have are unfavorable for a variety of reasons. Sanders comes to mind.
Wall protection != building a new wall. Nobody is opposed to protecting our borders, or shoring up the existing walls. What's pointless is spending $5B on starting a completely new wall that'll be built in places where it'll have virtually no effect.
The "Dance" thing I see denied by many conservatives now, but I saw it unfold in real time, including the original attempt by RWNJ conservative @realdanjordan (which was subsequently copied, and lazily at that, by @AnonymousQ1776) It was clearly an attempt to poke fun at her, that backfired hugely. The fact conservatives walked it back (in some cases legitimately and with honor, but only in some cases) doesn't change what it was and what it attempted to do.
Trump has done enough things for the usual mistakes made by the media (which oddly seem to mostly be anti-Democrat, not anti-Republican) to not be an issue with anyone trying to determine his trustworthiness or human decency. If you've decided to support him because you saw Anderson Cooper say a mean thing about him, well, there's no helping you.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I think you might have a slight problem with reading comprehension.
How exactly is starting a trade war with China and the EU "mundane status quo governance"?
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
It's a very insightful comment, however crowd-funding science is quite tricky - as humans react well to what is directly ahead, and not so well for things beyond time horizon, and flowers of science usually take more than 100 years to bloom. Today we benefit from quantum and general relativity theories, even more, we cannot leave houses without gadgets rooted in them. I do not think that any company would fund something with more than 100 years of return and very few people would as well, yet due to more and more complexity science becomes more expensive. Let's consider MRI, try to think of making a project like this without any basic science in physics, math, chemistry, biology, etc, in my opinion it would be inconceivable as a crowd-funding project even less so as a private company project without all the basic knowledge accumulated through just curiosity and basic research.
I like the way you think.
Perhaps you don't understand "Trade relations and negotiation between governments are a mundane and common.". Remove "trade war" from any reporting and it's just regular economic news with ups and downs with trends.
A trade war is a negotiation on relations and trade. Negotiation on relations and trade are common and somewhat expected by governments as they change over time. The Chinese would tit for tat to save face on any renegotiation that didn't have the same favorability as pre-existing deals. Common, mundane, and status quo governance.
So if someone beats you up it is also just a negotiation on relations then? This is not how civilised people do negotiations.
Moreover, I don't think "status quo" means what you think it means.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The problem is politicians crippling the government because their pet projects don't get funding, not that the government spends money on scientific research.
You are showing your ignorance again - every scientist's conclusions are suspect by default, as that's part of the scientific method, and why peer review exists and is used. That lets us weed out compromised research from honest research, and gives you all the technology and medicine your life depends on.
The usual definition - someone seeking to coerce people into political change through the use or threat of violence. Criminals aren't terrorists by default, even if they're really scary to you.
But consider this: given a choice between voting for the knave and voting for the fool, you should vote for the knave. Why? Because the knave is competent. But watch the knave like a hawk.
Well, the only people who can "watch" that knave are the "intelligence" agencies. Those agencies pretend to be held in check by the Executive, but as we have seen, those agencies are NOT fully controlled by the Executive. Even worse, those agencies fully believe they are above Congress as can be seen by having the Director (James Clapper) explicitly and deliberately lie to a Congressional panel.
In theory, your argument is correct. In reality, reality is far more complex than theory.
I guess you have been reading selective accounts of current events. Even the Rs don't like the way DJT is pulling out of Syria. And several erstwhile cabinet-members who are generals didn't like it either.
This is actually one of the most interesting developments during this Presidency. Either the military industrial complex will have Trump assassinated because he is no longer controllable or ... there is no "or" here. This is huge money that Trump is currently fucking with and the people who normally receive that money are vicious and amoral. I have no idea what is coming after this surprising decision.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
TPP was in part to address the trade deal with China as it meant to isolate and contain the Chinese. Obama was more passive aggressive. IOW, creating a favorable economic relationship with China has been the goal of many past administrations. One my say, status quo.
Comparing a trade war to "someone beats you up" is hyperbolic and you know it. There is no violence and both parties are working together reasonably and civilly despite disagreements and other issues.
"how civilized people do negotiations." Yea, better to be passive aggressive and dishonest in your intentions than to state the issue forwardly. /s Besides, "how civilized people do negotiations" isn't addressing the point that trade relations and negotiation are common and mundane.
Civilized people used to march in lines and stand in front of guns to fight wars. Civilized people used enslaved others for their own good. "how civilized people do things" is a flowery wording of "jump on the band wagon I am on because I'm better than you". It means nothing. Civilized people lose to barbarians because a barbarian knows how stupid "civilized" people can be.
with NBC for his reality show after he found out he wasn't the top paid reality TV star.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
despite causing a government shut down and even admitting to causing it on live TV. It's scary. He really could shoot somebody in Time Square and his followers wouldn't care. They're not thinking, they're feeling. When a large percentage of people think the head of state is above all criticism it never ends well.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
bwahaha
Have a Day!
>The "Dance" thing I see denied by many conservatives now, but I saw it unfold in real time, including the original attempt by RWNJ conservative @realdanjordan (which was subsequently copied, and lazily at that, by @AnonymousQ1776)
Still seems like nothing to me.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
There were only 2 contenders. Sorry, but that's a fact.
Yes, and you are required to vote for one of them. Don't make any attempt otherwise. Don't tell anyone they should vote for anyone else other than for one of the two parties in control of the system. In fact, tell other people voting for any other candidate that they are wasting their vote. This is the way it is, this is the way it has always been (since the 80s, at least), and this is the way it will always be. You are given two evils, and you must choose.
Remember, we all get the government we deserve. We deserve Trump. We deserve inoperable government. We chose this, it was not chosen for us. Right?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Are you under the impression that the Earth is infinite?/em.
We ae a long way from using up the entie Earth. What is going on in our lifetimes and many after is not a zero sum game. the wold is moe complex than a simple asymptotic analysis.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
It would have been quicker for you to type "I'm just talking out of my ass."
I'll just note that the country has finite budget for the government and a finite size economy.
And somehow you have gone from that to "we can either have a space budget or construction workers, but never both." Sorry, but it doesn't hold up. You've got multiple logical fallacies at play here. If you don't want to defend them, fine, I wouldn't either. I wouldn't make those statements in the first place, though.
The country is not choosing between minimal science funding and construction jobs. Period. The world's largest economy will never have to make that choice no matter whether you try to artificially inject "illegals" into the discussion or not. I notice you didn't address those questions, though.
Moreover, why exactly are the guys losing their jobs to "illegals?" It's already illegal to hire people not allowed to be in the country, so why are their employers firing the US citizens and hiring undocumented workers to take their place?
Let me guess, the Big Bad Democrats are forcing these patriotic employers to fire their patriotic employees and are instead being forced to hire illegals who want to destroy America and rape their daughters. That's about the extent of the thought you put into "but illegals!" isn't it?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
You have any ideas what they might want in return?
To rally their base, because they want to "kick him when he's down" and then "impeach the motherfucker."
Really, the guy claiming that Trump brought belligerence to DC, obviously only started paying attention last night. A strong portion of Trump's support has been that he is WILLING to fight back. The media pegged the responsibility for Obama's shutdown on the Freedom Caucus, WHICH ONLY HAD ABOUT 50 MEMBERS!! And Republicans took it. Romney ran a limp campaign against Obama, because he was afraid of being called a racists. Trump is the first Republican we've seen that has been willing to say, "Fuck You" when they call him names. That isn't belligerence. That is a willingness to fight back against belligerence.
At this point, the Dems are just looking for a way to save face against someone that shows them for the idiots they are.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
So we get yet another race to the bottom as those willing to hire illegals outcompete those not willing to do so.
You know, there's a bit of a flaw in that business plan. If you're really clever, you might be able to spot it and then you'll understand why it's not actually a problem in the country today.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Illegals are perfect community for these degenerates that liberal public loves so much.
Sorry, but who exactly do the liberal public love so much? MS-13? Violent gang members? Who is it that you believe a large portion of the US voting public wants to see in the country? And have you ever actually met someone saying they want those people in the country, or do you just think they want them because someone on TV told you they want them? Kind of like the "open borders" line, right? There's not a single person advocating for open borders, but that doesn't stop the True Patriots (tm) from trying to convince idiots that there are people advocating for open borders. And, those idiots believe it because doing your own research takes time and it's just comfortable when someone on TV is telling you something that you kind of feel might be true.
So, who is it that the liberal public loves so much that you're referring to here?
organized crime gets slap on the wrist despite the fact that they kill disproportionately larger amount of people as part of their gang activity, starting from killing absolutely innocent people that have no relation to any of the traditional gang territories as part of gang initiation.
You're suggesting that the US justice system treats murder as a slap on the wrist? And, let me guess. This perceived aspect of the US justice system, which doesn't actually exist, was put in place by Democrats, or whoever your own political opponent is. Is that about right?
Putting a stop to cross-border human trafficking is a good start to reduce this ground.
I think that literally everyone in America agrees with that statement, but I also bet you've allowed yourself to become convinced that "the other" doesn't support stopping human trafficking, for whatever reason.
Seriously, everyone agrees that we need border security and that reducing human trafficking is a good thing. What people disagree about is the best way to make that happen.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
If you're really clever, you might be able to spot it and then you'll understand why it's not actually a problem in the country today.
Since you're so clever, why don't you point it out? Because it looks to me like it is a real problem.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You have any ideas what they might want in return?
At this point, the Dems are just looking for a way to save face against someone that shows them for the idiots they are.
Then this carnival ride is going to be a wild one that won't end any time soon. I personally hoped that once Nancy got her speakership, there would be some whining and the democrats would eventually cave. Given Trump's scheduled news conference, I have a feeling that he's going to drop a bomb of some kind (declare an emergency, get the military to build it or something) and attempt to push the democrats off dead center on this. If they don't cave, their only choice will be investigations and possible impeachment proceedings to try to divert attention from their duplicity...
Personally I don't understand how this can continue, even if Trump is a total but head, seems that 5.6 Billion is a small price to pay money wise and the longer this plays out the worse it will play for the democrats politically. The democrats are hoping that Mueller comes up with something really worth impeachment or for some unforced error from Trump's side or this will drag out, giving time for Trump to gain some PR traction with the "we where for it but are now oppose it" sound bites.
So eventually the democrats will lose even if they don't fold, but Trump can only win. You can tell when we get close to that point because the democrats will pull out all the stops and go full Kavanagh on this, committing wholesale political suicide en mass. Trump may not get his "wall" but he will assure himself of re-election in 2020 pretty much any way this plays out, sans some actual content from Mueller or another unforced error by Trump.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Isn't going to a X-science conference a legitimate travel expense for an X scientist?
And thats why millions of programmers go to tech conferences at the expense of their employers... oh wait... they dont
If your employer sends you to a conference, your employer pays. If you send yourself, YOU should pay, you fucking fuck,
"His name was James Damore."
And yet, there's only $2 trillion in cash in circulation.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Is this the same peer review that couldn't detect outright fraud in the social sciences?
https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2018/10/06/another-set-of-fake-papers-takes-aim-at-social-sciences-nether-regions
Or maybe you also believe canine rape exists.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
And yet, there's only $2 trillion in cash in circulation.
Which means it's zero sum because there's no way of growing wealth without making someone else poorer.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Well, not in dollars anyway. To hold down inflation, the FED artificially limits the amount of currency available.
Zimbabwe did an experiment a while back with its currency to see if we were yet at a stage where currency can be infinite- I'd suggest you look up the results of that experiment.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
OK, happy to help. You see, it is currently illegal for a business to hire someone who is not allowed to legally work in the US. This is currently a crime. No new legislation needs to be passed in order for this to become illegal or get enforced. Now, I don't know how many drug dealers you've encountered throughout your life, but here's the thing: when your business model is predicated upon doing something illegal, that's something that we like to call "high risk." This business can actually get shut down and the owner fined or jailed just with one little old phone call. And, not only in theory either, it actually happens! (strange, I know, but true!)
So, what do you do if your business is being out-competed by someone committing a crime to run their business with an illegal workforce? You just pick up that little old phone on your desk, and call 1-866-DHS-2-ICE. And - just like that - no more competitor! And now you're sitting in high cotton and it's just little old you and you can charge whatever you want for your fantastic services.
Because it looks to me like it is a real problem.
And you're suggesting that there is currently no solution to this problem, right? And, not only that, but those 3.7% or so of workers who are unemployed (which is the lowest level that's been at since about 1970) are unable to find a job because the companies who hire illegal workers just straight up won't hire Americans also, right? Because, if they did, then your buddies in the unemployment line would be out there waiting to pick lettuce and tomatoes. Right? Therefore, let's spend a couple dozen billion dollars to build a giant wall. Am I following you so far?
Seriously, how exactly do you justify this being a "real problem" that "illegals" are stealing so many jobs when we have an unemployment rate that is lower than about 2/3s of Americans currently alive have ever seen?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
No new legislation needs to be passed in order for this to become illegal
Okay...
or get enforced.
...lol
If it were getting enforced against the largest offenders, who are easy to find because they are so very large, it would cease to be a major problem. QED, it's not getting enforced, or if it is the enforcement is wholly ineffectual (and likely designed to be so.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Your logical fallacy is asserting that there is a major problem when you haven't shown that. Sorry, but in order for me to consider your argument, first prove your assertion that it is currently a "major problem." As in, evidence. It's probably best to ignore the unemployment rate when you're trying to come up with things that look like evidence for that.
Also....
If it were getting enforced against the largest offenders, who are easy to find because they are so very large, it would cease to be a major problem.
Who exactly are these largest offenders, that everyone apparently knows about, who aren't getting busted for it? Names, please. And, again, you know, evidence.
QED, it's not getting enforced, or if it is the enforcement is wholly ineffectual
Or your assumptions are not correct. Which is easily the simplest answer to this particular question.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Like I said you're a moron seeking an argument not expansion or explanation.
At any given time it is.
So while over larger time scales things may indeed be growing over the time scale a budget is drawn up that's irrelevant.
Well, not in dollars anyway. To hold down inflation, the FED artificially limits the amount of currency available.
But it's not zero and the dollar can go up and down.
Zimbabwe did...
Zinbabwe had rampant inflation so the fact that a lage amount of the world has gone from subsistence farming to considerable wealth is irrelevant.
Look around you. Compare the wold now to 50, 100 and 200 years ago and tell me precisely how it's a zero sum game.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Who exactly are these largest offenders, that everyone apparently knows about, who aren't getting busted for it? Names, please. And, again, you know, evidence.
Evidence — this is a list of the ones they bothered to go after.
Or your assumptions are not correct. Which is easily the simplest answer to this particular question.
Sure, if you hide your head up your ass.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That's why we have EWTN
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I'm talking about artificial scarcity in the money supply. Yes, it can go up and down, but when we let it go up to infinite, inflation occurs.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
You're suggesting we can either fund 10 scientists or 10,000 construction workers, but not both, and I'm the moron for calling you out on that stupid claim? You make stupid claims like that and I'm the one looking for an argument? You're not giving an explanation because there's not one. Because you're the one just trying to argue, and being asked to show any kind of evidence for your claims slows you down.
OK, buddy. Good luck with your false equivalences. I'm sure you make a really compelling argument for your audience on Facebook.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I asked you to show evidence of the companies that apparently everyone knows are doing this, but ARE NOT being busted. You're showing people being busted for financial services around paying illegal workers, which is only evidence that the enforcement system is working, even though that is from 2012. See the link I posted earlier if you want to read about the thousands of people arrested the last 2 years. It sounds like the system is working. If you're aware of major violations going on, instead of complaining about all the pure patriotic jobs being lost, just report it. And maybe our country can move on to something actually important.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I'm absolutely sure there is stuff that the government funds that I agree with which is beyond their constitutional duty.
As an adult I accept that those areas will have to find other revenue streams should by some miracle the United States ever actually start following the constitution. And like a reasonable adult person I'm prepared to work to see that happens. The answer might be to amend the constitution to bring that activity under the responsibility of the U.S. government. Surely if it is a truly necessary and valuable contribution to the national good it should be possible to convince two-thirds of the Congress and three fourths of the states that such a thing needs to be done.
Americans won't work hard for shit money. Illegals have been fucked so hard that our shit money looks like good money to them. So we get yet another race to the bottom as those willing to hire illegals outcompete those not willing to do so.
That's true, too.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
If Mueller had anything he would have released it before the last election. He's got nadda. He keeps going after the little fish, offering immunity or plea deals, and once he gives them finding out there's nothing the little fish have that will get him an crime under which he can indite.
Expect a report to be released in the next couple of months which shows that Trump did business with people in Russian who, low and behold did business with the Russian government. He probably did business with people who did business with the British government too, and with the U.S. government. Because when you own international businesses that's what happens. You do business with your own government, foreign governments, and people who do business with your own governments and foreign governments.
That's what happens when your run a business instead holding down a place in academia or a low level government job.
Would that be the U.S. which has the lowest rate of unemployment in their African American, Hispanic and just about everyone else since we started keeping records? Or perhaps the high stock market rate? The new businesses started?
The government was shut down because Democrats, who promised they would vote for border security 40 years ago when Reagan granted amnesty to illegals reneged on their promise and Trump's base is tired of it.
The wall is shorthand. As an object it needs to be built. As a symbol it is shorthand for the people in this country who want to address the immigration crisis rather than simply ignoring immigration laws we don't like.
The Democrats don't care about whether a wall is built or not. They just don't want to give Trump a win. As a party they are perfectly willing to allow illegal criminals to murder police officers (One of the most recent who was a legal immigrant). They are willing to allow any number of poor foreigners to die in Mexico and South America in an attempt to get to the U.S. boarder, where they are likely to be turned away, or will be exploited by criminals who will sneak them in and then further exploit them in situations which often are no more than human trafficking.
The worst thing for Democrats would be for the border to be secured and for immigration laws to be fixed. Most of the present immigration laws with stupid quotas and restrictions on people by country (read that as race/culture) were passed by Progressive Democrats in an effort to prevent Eastern Europeans, Jews and other non-WASPs from enter the U.S. in the run up to WWII. They wanted to ensure those "undesirables" didn't get into the country. The Democrats caused this problem. Like many other things they've done since the 1860's they hope people will forget what the Democrat party actually had stood for for a long time.
Loss of public trust for Washington or politicians in general is a boat that sailed a long time ago. It is ridiculous to say Trump is destroying public trust in our political institutions. It is particularly absurd to make that statement and invoke the name of Hillary Clinton, who was so dishonest she rigged her own nomination to the detriment of Sanders, and then got caught at it because her party wasn't competent enough to secure their own mail servers.
No one cares about Trump's tax returns. If people really cared about tax returns the Clintons would be in jail. Their money laundering foundation would certainly be under scrutiny.
Legislation isn't being passed because Trump is weak. It's not being passed because, unlike the Democrats the Republican leadership doesn't blackmail and threaten their members. In the Republican party people like Cruz, Romney, and a lot of the others go their own way and the party doesn't punish them for voting their conscious or for their constituencies.
Does anyone really believe that Nancy Pelosi is speaker again for any other than she has the goods on so many people that they're afraid to vote against her? She certainly hasn't done any good for the country.
The real problem you guys are having is that where it mattered he told the truth.
Make NATO countries pay more of the cost of defense and pay the amount they promised.
Rebuild Navy to 350 ships
Role back Obama's executive orders on Cuba, DACA, etc
Renegotiate NAFTA
Take no salary
Address Veteran's problems
Slash federal regulations
Lifetime bans on ex-white house officials becoming foreign lobbyists (sorry Bill).
Nominate pro-life and pro-natural law juristys to the supreme court.
Pull out of the Paris Accords.
Cancel the Iran deal
Move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem
Stop TPP
Raise tariffs on countries that manipulate their currency to get an unfair advantage (China)
Basically he's keeping his campaign promised. That's what has you so nervous. He's a politician who actually tries to do what he said he'd do. Since he's doing the opposite of what Clinton would have done that makes him the opposite of the least evil candidate and more like the best candidate. In may ways better than any of the other Republicans who would have promised the same stuff, but done none of it.
So you're alright with violent murders crossing the border as long as they don't perpetrate their violence for political reasons?
No you are the moron who wants to pick a fight over the fact the budget isn't infinite and Santa Claus isn't real.
Sad you can't even get yourself right.
I'm not asserting that the budget is infinite. I am asserting that we are not choosing, and will never have to choose, between funding 10 scientists or 10,000 construction jobs. It's a stupid example, and I called you out for it. That's what I'm calling you out on, your stupid fictional appeal to emotion in a scenario that is not currently happening, and will never happen in the world's largest economy.
I never said the budget is infinite. You're just using an absurd hypothetical in a bad attempt to sway people to your badly-informed political opinion. If your opinion on this matter was so valid and well thought-out, you wouldn't be setting up some sort of hypothetical where we have to choose between funding 10 scientists or 10,000 construction jobs. But you don't have another example because, like I said, your opinion is badly-informed and not well thought-out. So you scoop up logical fallacies like appeal to emotion and hope no one notices. Well, I did.
I shouldn't be surprised that someone coming up with absurd hypotheticals in an appeal to emotion can't understand what other people are talking about. There's a lot of confusion in you. Let me know if you need me to spell anything else out for you. The people who modded my comment up to 5 at least understood the point.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Yadda Yadda Yadda your statements are above try harder
No idea what that means, but you're obviously not interested in standing behind whatever you say. Take care. Best of luck convincing your audience on Facebook, I'm sure they all think you make really good points.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
What I said stands on it's own.
I really would love to know how we never have to make budget choices and the budget never gets cut as you claim
Loss of public trust for Washington or politicians in general is a boat that sailed a long time ago.
No one cares about Trump's tax returns.
Does anyone really believe that Nancy Pelosi is speaker again for any other than she has the goods on so many people that they're afraid to vote against her?
You seem to be projecting your own beliefs onto everyone else. You should work on that, it's a big country with a lot of people who disagree with you.
Also: I did not invoke Hillary Clinton. I find it darkly amusing that you would suggest I did.
98% of the Bibles I own are virtual.
The remaining 2% are printed on plastic. I prefer a Bible that is waterproof and that keeps some carbon out of the atmosphere.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I have not claimed either of those. Again, you are clearly confused, it is evident in your assertions. Like that one claiming that I said we never have to make budget choices. Not sure where you think that argument came into play, but I never made it (I DID say we will never have to choose between 10 scientists and 10,000 construction jobs, which is true, because that's a really stupid argument).
I suppose that's not entirely true, I know how you got from point A to point B. You attempted to process my criticism, but instead of understanding what I was saying you decided to push my argument to its extreme, and then set up that strawman as if that was the argument I was making instead of my actual argument. Because it's a lot easier to knock down a strawman. It's a lot easier for you to argue that we have to make budget choices, even though I never argued that we never have to make budget choices.
I realize this is all probably pretty confusing to you, so just go ahead and reply with "yadda yadda yadda" followed by some word salad because, again, that's easier than trying to think. Or, just dismiss me as a moron, which, again, requires as little thinking as possible on your part.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
That's true. But in the meantime, there is a chance they will get triggered and dump the vaults of dirt the DNC and RNC has on each other.
Clearly the RNC won't trigger MAD to save Trump, but the DNC is all in to protect Clinton, being full of her croneys.
I'm optimistic, unless Clinton dies or something, the dirt has a good chance of dumping.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'm basically a gridlock voter.
Inoperable government IS the best we can get out of the current system.
Bitcoin hasn't succeeded in monkeywrenching their printing presses, so that needs work. We'll never again have limited government while unlimited budgets are the norm. Not even government incompetence and waste can fix unlimited budgets.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
You really think the democrats will burn everything just to save Clinton?!
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Yes, because Clinton will burn them to save herself, unless they keep her out of prison and rolling in money.
The 'die' option is not that unlikely, will garner sympathy etc.
Live by the 'heart attack while awaiting trial', die by it. I wouldn't write either Clinton any life insurance policies.
I think when on the horns of this dilemma the DNC will just eliminate the individual. But if she has good enough personal security, it could be dump time.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'