Slashdot Mirror


American Cheese Surplus Reaches Record High

According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, there's a 1.4 billion-pound cheese surplus. "The glut, which at 900,000 cubic yards is the largest in U.S. history, means that there is enough cheese sitting in cold storage to wrap around the U.S. Capitol," reports NPR. Americans managed to consume nearly 37 pounds per capita in 2017, but that wasn't enough to reduce the surplus. From the report: The stockpile started to build several years ago, in large part because the pace of milk production began to exceed the rates of consumption, says Andrew Novakovic, professor of agricultural economics at Cornell University. Over the past 10 years, milk production has increased by 13 percent because of high prices. But what dairy farmers failed to realize was that Americans are drinking less milk. According to data from the USDA, Americans drank just 149 pounds of milk per capita in 2017, down from 247 pounds in 1975.

Suppliers turn that extra milk into cheese because it is less perishable and stays fresh for longer periods. But Americans are turning their noses up at those processed cheese slices and string cheese -- varieties that are a main driver of the U.S. cheese market -- in favor of more refined options, Novakovic tells Here & Now's Jeremy Hobson. Despite this shift, sales of mozzarella cheese, the single largest type of cheese produced and consumed in the U.S., remain strong, he says. Novakovic also notes that imported cheeses tend to cost more, so when people choose those, they buy less cheese overall. The growing surplus of American-made cheese and milk means that prices are declining. The current average price of whole milk is $15.12 per 100 pounds, which is much lower than the price required for dairy farmers to break even.

398 comments

  1. Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by RyanRife8866 · · Score: 1

    Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese!

    1. Re: Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have found Cheesus Christ Xirself

      https://m.imgur.com/gallery/woefYg0

    2. Re:Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although that's a lot of cheese, I sure know a renowned IT clerk living in San Jose and working for a 3 letter agency in Palo Alto that could easily take care of this problem if he wanted to!

    3. Re:Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by reboot246 · · Score: 2

      That's nearly enough cheese to make another Moon!

    4. Re: Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if that clerk stopped posting messages about himself in the third person then he might be less unhappy.

    5. Re:Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That might not be a bad place to store it, either!

      Elon! Elon! Launch Code Munchies! Countdown four, two, zero, are we there yet?

    6. Re: Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if he stopped posting further replies to pretend to incriminate useless posts and give better visibility in the process, he will be less unhappy too.

    7. Re: Cheesus Christ that's a lot of cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can the wall be constructed using it?

  2. Hey! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not 'yo cheese!

    1. Re: Hey! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for staying the fuck out of my cheese - cant you see I am making a 900,000,000 pound humble pie?

  3. wrap around the U.S. Capitol by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

    "The glut, which at 900,000 cubic yards is the largest in U.S. history, means that there is enough cheese sitting in cold storage to wrap around the U.S. Capitol,"

    Awesome! The artist Christo merely wrapped the German Parliament in cloth. Wrapping the US Capitol in cheese would absolutely top that!

    Now, if we also have a surplus of bacon . . . we could also wrap it in that, and fry that bastard, and have lunch for the rest of the year!

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, this sounds like a great idea. We can use it to build a wall around Washington, D.C. I'm pretty sure Mexico will gladly pay for it.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The glut, which at 900,000 cubic yards is the largest in U.S. history, means that there is enough cheese sitting in cold storage to wrap around the U.S. Capitol,"

      Awesome! The artist Christo merely wrapped the German Parliament in cloth. Wrapping the US Capitol in cheese would absolutely top that!

      Now, if we also have a surplus of bacon . . . we could also wrap it in that, and fry that bastard, and have lunch for the rest of the year!

      The beauty of this situation is that the pork is already on the inside.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's really a stupid measurement. The reference standard is how many times the cheese can wrap around the Library of Congress. Everybody knows that.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    4. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Orange man bad.

    5. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by tina+juarez · · Score: 1

      Actually, the White house is enough! Let's hope cheese blocks wifi. Additionally, all the rats trying to get in can be caught and the rats trying to escape...well... choose love

    6. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by tina+juarez · · Score: 1

      let's see...natchos, quesadias, tamale, pupusas..we've got the resources to put all those asylum- seekers to work AND feed everyone! the US can be a hero again! choose love, PS there is also cheese fondue, cheese pizza, cheese omelets, palak paneer, to be inclusive..

    7. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The beauty of this situation is that the pork is already on the inside.

      . +1 for sure.

    8. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Cheese pizza, yeah i've always wondered, what the fuck america? Put something on the damn pizza.

    9. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't it be how much cheese a Library of Congress contains? Why wrap and waste all the non-surface volume?

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    10. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How thick?

      How high?!?

      I could wrap a Kraft single around the capitol if you let me spread it thin enough!

    11. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you can just insert a facile "Mexican Wall" meme and get 5, Funny on Slashdot, the Ghost of Tech Websites Past.

    12. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Or, alternatively, how many football fields in length.

    13. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I think the USDA 5lb cheese blocks they used to give to poor people is the implied size metric when using length.

    14. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Ordering a cheese pizza is my standard method for determining if a pizzeria is any good. If they can't make a good cheese pizza, everything else is suspect.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    15. Re:wrap around the U.S. Capitol by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Well played kind sir. Well played indeed. :)

      The beauty of this situation is that the pork is already on the inside.

      You got me dying of laughter now.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  4. Cow Milk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    is for baby cows.

    1. Re:Cow Milk by bobbied · · Score: 4, Funny

      is for baby cows.

      Moooo!

      I love cheese! Just not a million pounds of it. No Whey...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Cow Milk by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Funny

      is for baby cows.

      Moooo!

      I love cheese! Just not a million pounds of it. No Whey...

      I Gouda hand it to you. Feta love of God, that's so funny, I Camembert it. Emmental for cheese jokes -- I just Edam up.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    3. Re:Cow Milk by rlitman · · Score: 1

      Wensleydale, is that you?

    4. Re:Cow Milk by tina+juarez · · Score: 1

      IS THAT Wallace or Gromet writing this?

    5. Re:Cow Milk by LaughingRadish · · Score: 1

      No, it was Mister Wensleydale.

    6. Re:Cow Milk by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Mozzarella you talkin' 'bout?

      --
      I tend to rant.
    7. Re:Cow Milk by cyberchondriac · · Score: 3, Funny

      My blood is curdling, there's got to be a cheddar way of making cheesy jokes, just leave it brie. Some cultures are better left provolone.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    8. Re:Cow Milk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, look, another ignorant SJW, this time coming to the rescue of cows.

      Their offspring don't need nearly as much milk as cows produce. Do you know what happens to a cow when you stop milking it?

    9. Re:Cow Milk by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      I'm Fontina better way of these jokes after Morbier. That way I Cantal if someone's efforts can pass Munster. But keep Paneer out for comedian Monterey Jack -- he's Colby a mile, and Stilton night he's performing at the Blue Castello. His girlfriend took off her Bra in front of her Beaufort the crowd and got arrested, Butterkase probably will be dismissed because someone pointed a Burrata at her and made her do it. And don't Cheddar Gorgonzola food at the cheese bar -- you'll have to pass a Brick a day later.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  5. Supply and demand by rgmoore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The current average price of whole milk is $15.12 per 100 pounds, which is much lower than the price required for dairy farmers to break even.

    If an industry consistently produces more than consumers demand and has prices below break even, the normal market response would be for some of the producers to go out of business. The only reason they don't is because of government subsidies. There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

    --

    There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

    1. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And a sticking point with NAFTA (Both 1.0 and 2.0) has been this. They keep trying to dump it in Canada which would destroy our dairy industry.

    2. Re:Supply and demand by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If an industry consistently produces more than consumers demand and has prices below break even, the normal market response would be for some of the producers to go out of business. The only reason they don't is because of government subsidies. There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

      There is a very good reason why farmers are exempt from the normal laws of supply and demand... Same reason we use corn based ethanol that takes more energy to produce that the output energy as a fuel. That simple reason is... Iowa votes first

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
    3. Re:Supply and demand by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Also they criticize Canada's supply management quotas which prevent exactly this. Essentially each farmer can only be subsidized at the highest level for a limited amount which is dictated by the market.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Hey man, that's nacho cheese!"

    5. Re:Supply and demand by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 2

      Our President heard that cheese is essential for Poutine. And if his BFF Poutine wants cheese, well dammit, Poutine shall have cheese. Billions and billions of pounds of cheese. For Poutine.

    6. Re:Supply and demand by AHuxley · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its hard work to ramp up and ramp down farms and the needed generational skills.
      Most normal nations do all they can to keep their farms productive and producing so their nations will never face food shortages.
      Some decades see a lot of extra food.
      Productivity is good. Farmers on the land, been productive is good.
      Needing to find money to import food is not good.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Keeping a stable food supply is one of the highest priorities of any sensible government on the planet, actually.
      Problem is there are sometimes low demands for some things, which leads to issues that tend to spiral out of control if not managed properly.
      This is one of those cases. It has been horribly mismanaged.
      The shitty quality cheeses produced are also an issue.

    8. Re:Supply and demand by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      The government effectively subsidizes all manner of things through direct subsidies, tax breaks, and a number of other little schemes. The farmers are just ensuring that they get theirs too. It's all utterly pointless as well as you wind up with these exact kinds of situations where there's too much surplus of one thing, but a shortage of another.

      Some people like to act as though all of the farms would die without the subsidies, but that simply isn't true. It would be precisely those which are the least efficient which fail while most survive. Most of the subsidies aren't going to the poor, misbegotten family farmers anyways. As with most government handouts and redistribution schemes, a tiny minority receives the bulk of it.

    9. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Should be corporate farmers that get out of the cheese business - not small farmers who need the subsidies!

    10. Re:Supply and demand by rgmoore · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm pretty sure Donald Trump's BFF cares a lot more about borscht than poutine.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

    11. Re:Supply and demand by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

      There's a very good national security reason:
      We want to keep sufficient food production in the United States so that if we are at war, or just if there is a global food crisis, we won't have people starving to death.

      That doesn't mean we necessarily have to fund milk producers, but it makes sense to ensure you have enough good food production. It's better than buying another stealth F-22 Raptor, and much cheaper.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

      Unless you want to guard against accidental food shortages. You can't suddenly ramp up production in the farmers and their infrastructure isn't there. You'll have a famine first.

    13. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you speak of something you know nothing about.

      I work in this industry, dairy's are going out of business left and right. The day of a family farm surving by milking cows is long gone. Government subsidies going to farmers is largely a myth. Its an incredibly depressing time, the suicide rate for farmers is skyrocketing because many of these people have known no other way of life and are declaring bankruptcy.

    14. Re:Supply and demand by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its hard work to ramp up and ramp down farms and the needed generational skills.
      Most normal nations do all they can to keep their farms productive and producing so their nations will never face food shortages.

      ... and other countries have no subsidies at all. New Zealand has none. Do you think they are starving?

      Subsidies are driven by politics, not by "preventing hunger".

      The American Electoral College, which magnifies the power of small rural states, means that our system of subsidies is especially stupid. Even European farm subsides look sensible when compared with ours.

    15. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dairy's are going out of business left and right

      And that is probably the reason why, you dumb ass.

    16. Re:Supply and demand by smoot123 · · Score: 1

      Amen. Why in the world do we need a cheese stockpile?

    17. Re:Supply and demand by smoot123 · · Score: 2

      Most normal nations do all they can to keep their farms productive and producing so their nations will never face food shortages.
      ...
      Needing to find money to import food is not good.

      The world has changed. It used to be shipping food was expensive and wasteful. Shipping is now so cheap and reliable it is much less important to grow all your own food.

      It used to be the case that farmers didn't produce enough food for everyone to eat well. We now produce enough food that everyone could eat a nutritious diet of more than 2,000 calories. So producing enough food is no longer the problem, it's moving food to the people who want it.

      With these changes, it no longer makes sense for each country to stockpile food in case of shortage. A reasonable strategy is to stockpile cash, if anything, and just import food when it's needed. And you'd buy it from whoever can grow it the most productively, which might not be your local farmers. If you import from high productivity farmers, you'll have more cash on hand because you didn't give it to less productive local farmers. So not only is this better for food security, it's arguably better for your local economy.

    18. Re: Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      First they're not exempt. Second the reason is because people need food.
      Funny how Liberals are all about UBI and raising minimum wage and subsidizing Solar but the second you want to help prevent random events from devastating our food supply, they run screaming into the night.

    19. Re:Supply and demand by smoot123 · · Score: 2

      There's a very good national security reason:

      That's a reason but I don't think it's a great reason any more. Farmers worldwide are so productive and shipping is so efficient that it's really unlikely we'll have a world-wide famine. Or any famine, for that matter. It's quite safe to just depend on remote farmers.

      I won't even get into asking what sort of security spending that money elsewhere could buy.

      It's better than buying another stealth F-22 Raptor, and much cheaper.

      I don't know about that. A Raptor costs what, $100 million? That's a lot but an order of magnitude or two less than farm subsidies (measured in the tens of billions per year, I think).

    20. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, we're going to need the raptors to go steal food if we give up food security. There are plenty of bad actors in the world. It wouldn't take many ships "disappearing" to get Lloyds to stop underwriting shipping to any nation, and all of the sudden, that "efficient" shipping goes away.

    21. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nachos.

    22. Re:Supply and demand by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's a reason but I don't think it's a great reason any more. Farmers worldwide are so productive and shipping is so efficient that it's really unlikely we'll have a world-wide famine. Or any famine, for that matter. It's quite safe to just depend on remote farmers.

      I really don't believe you at all.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    23. Re:Supply and demand by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      And it is changing again. Tariff walls will take it back to everyone for themselves alone. This is the true meaning of America first.

    24. Re: Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because we've woken up in some awful world war 2 reboot. I was a cheesemaker!

    25. Re:Supply and demand by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Its hard work to ramp up and ramp down farms and the needed generational skills.

      A few decades ago, the US spent a buttload of money buying out something like 50% of all dairy farms because there was too much milk being produced and the prices were too low for the farmers to make a living.

      Not too long after that, of course, the remaining dairy farmers started dosing their cows with rBST to gain a competitive advantage - and now we're back in the same situation.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    26. Re:Supply and demand by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Woosh, wooshity woosh.

    27. Re:Supply and demand by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      New Zealand has a currency problem. Their currency is so low they can export to the world. Thats very different for the USA.
      European farm subsides keep out US products and services using terms like "chemicals" and "health".
      Its very smart to keep a nation in food for decades.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    28. Re:Supply and demand by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      re "stockpile food in case of shortage. "
      That can change with politics, war, currency prices. An embargo.
      When the low cost food stops, riots start.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    29. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the rest is dumped in the field as fertilizer ...

    30. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A reasonable strategy is to stockpile cash, if anything, and just import food when it's needed.

      If/when the shit hits the fan, and there's not enough food to go around, do you think I will sell you mine? I'll eat my food. Hope you like the taste of cash.

    31. Re: Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But we have food. Too much actually. In all my long years Iâ(TM)ve never seen a food shortage. But too much milk (ie. prices too low) has been eternal. I get it, you want some protection from fluctuations but if you canâ(TM)t adjust after ten years then youâ(TM)re just being dense.

    32. Re: Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Isn't the cost of milk a metric for comparing the buying power between generations? Does this mean that the metric used to determine minimum wage and poverty is being artificially lowered, giving a false impression of a stronger economy?

    33. Re: Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird. I am a liberal and I do not have a position on farm subsidies.

    34. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For a poster whose nick is Huxley you sure don't think sci-fi-y enough! The future of food is fake everything. Fake meat, fake cheese, yes even fake plant-base food (since they're genetically engineered). So the great debate between carnivore and vegetarian will end. We'll all become chemical eaters!

    35. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The current average price of whole milk is $15.12 per 100 pounds, which is much lower than the price required for dairy farmers to break even.

      If an industry consistently produces more than consumers demand and has prices below break even, the normal market response would be for some of the producers to go out of business. The only reason they don't is because of government subsidies. There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

      I take it you are a libertarian? As such you are a fucking moron if you think putting the farmers 100% at the whim of the market is a good long term way to run a country. But then again, you're a libertarian, stupidity is par for the course.

    36. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New Zealand has a currency problem. Their currency is so low they can export to the world. Thats very different for the USA.

      European farm subsides keep out US products and services using terms like "chemicals" and "health".

      Its very smart to keep a nation in food for decades.

      It's not the subsidies that do that, it's our health laws which ban stupid and dangerous food additives- thank goodness! There's still enough junk flying around the place and been passed off as "food"

    37. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New Zealand has a currency problem. Their currency is so low they can export to the world. Thats very different for the USA.

      I guess if the USA actually made proper cheese, chocolate and beer, they would be able to export it. When I look at the ugly, gas-guzzling SUVs and noisy detuned motorcycles from the USA available in my locale at a hefty price (also with a huge "currency problem" vis-a-vis the USA), which still get bought, then I imagine that such first mentioned products must be actually pretty awful.

    38. Re:Supply and demand by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      At this stage of (post) industrial economic development "poor family farmers" do not exist. The last of them went extinct in the 1960s and were gone by 1970 (that's 50 years ago folks). Most people do not appreciate the real nature of American farming today. There are fewer than 400,000 farm operators (one in 800 Americans) that turn out 90% of all U.S. economic farm value and these people are operating huge industrial farming operations. There are quite a few who are family owned still, but that means they are privately owned farming corporations with multiple family owners often quite removed from the actual farm.

      The total number of farmers listed by the census is 2 million, but 75% of them are tiny and mostly lose money. Every one of these "famers" holds down a full-time job somewhere else to support themselves. This group has a high turn over rate, people entering and leaving the practice of small farming. To qualify as a farmer on the census all you have to do is produce $5,000 of gross product value (even if you sell none of it) each year, and declare yourself a farmer on a census form. And no one checks for the self-declared farm output.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    39. Re:Supply and demand by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      Mostly you are right, But someone is producing all that milk. And that is enormous agricultural feed lot operations - part of which are family owned corporations, but not the common notion of "family farms". And yes, they are subsidized.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    40. Re:Supply and demand by jabuzz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Noting that you get beef in the EU that originates outside the EU, you just don't get beef pumped full of hormones. Similarly you get chicken that is from outside the EU. It;s just not slaughtered in such disgustingly horrible conditions that the only way to make it safe to eat is wash it in chlorine.

      The USA is free anytime to export these products to the EU, they just have to be produced in line with EU standards. It is a totally reasonable expectation.

      It's no different from banning imports of toys painted with lead paint.

    41. Re: Supply and demand by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      It's no different from banning imports of toys painted with lead paint.

      It's very, very different. Lead paint is demonstrably harmful, whereas the hysteria over "GMOs" and "teh kemikillzzz!" is just clever marketing.

    42. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Europe keeps out a lot of American products because they are full of chemicals and bad for your health.

      You lot might be happy eating that crap but we're not.

    43. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a genius.

      So one disagreement later and you're in a war, no food can be imported, so you all starve.

      That's why you produce your own food dumbass.

    44. Re: Supply and demand by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Not too long after that, of course, the remaining dairy farmers started dosing their cows with rBST to gain a competitive advantage - and now we're back in the same situation.

      If by "remaining" you mean "less than 20%", then yeah, this is kinda right.

      So you're trying to say that the government cut production in half (50%) and then 20% of the remaining 50% started raising slightly bigger cows ... which somehow doubled the production of the entire industry back to previous levels?

      I don't think your math is quite right.

    45. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. Bringing in the Electoral College. Oh god, that is ripe.
      Stop with the fake news.
      Repubs, both parties, take bribes to pass laws that benefit a few. It's aka democracy, get used to it.

    46. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The average dairy herd is 234 cows (https://www.milkbusiness.com/article/licensed-dairy-farm-numbers-drop-to-just-over-40000) and the number of dairy farmers has dropped, but liquidating a herd is costly. The average cost of a dairy cow is between $900 to $3000 and, as you might expect in a shrinking market no one is buying mature cows.

      That's a lot of low-cost hamburger to grind up and very expensive milking, feeding and cleaning equipment to sell off. Also, dairy pastures don't automatically convert to farmland and crop farming takes a lot of cash to start up in any case (seed, fertilizer, tractors, harvesters).

      Farming, any farming, is expensive and slow to change. It's a wonder anyone still does it.

    47. Re: Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because the subsidies work, you idiot.

    48. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is. If you subsidize farming to keep another countries costs for production of food below break-even, it gives political leverage over that country which may be used in getting a more profitable deal in something else (like say, oh i don't know, sub-Saharan oil as a random example)

      How do you think Milo Mindbender could make a profit buying eggs at $0.03 and selling at $0.02? There were other aspects of the deal that more than covered that particular loss. (Ref: Catch-22)

    49. Re: Supply and demand by mjwx · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's no different from banning imports of toys painted with lead paint.

      It's very, very different. Lead paint is demonstrably harmful, whereas the hysteria over "GMOs" and "teh kemikillzzz!" is just clever marketing.

      By the sounds of that... You don't actually know what EU standards are. They aren't particularly high, Thailand can meet them, not sure why the US cant.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    50. Re:Supply and demand by jbengt · · Score: 1

      And there's a good reason a lot of those tiny, money-losing farmers "farm" their land: A break on their property taxes.

    51. Re:Supply and demand by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      You say these things now but your tune might change mighty fast in the event of regional weather disaster or some kind of blight that causes a large number of crops to fail. These things have happened in the past. Producing an over abundance of food means that we don't starve when this happens. You are correct the policy to not maximize economic efficiency because that is not what its about. Its about insurance.

      It absolutely is about preventing hunger. It is also becoming a political foot ball, where one site wants to try and profit by it beyond the insurance justification and certain other players want to rather disingenuously claim that the "red states" are actually dipping their hands into the federal till more than the coasts. Which might be true in the strictest technical sense but as previously stated is about the insurance of food security. While the coast might send more net dollars to dear old Uncle Sam you have to consider there is some distortion in value. I can assure nobody will give a crap about anything Hollywood produces if they don't have food on their tables. The value of all the intellectually property out west and most of the accounting ledger lines in the east won't be worth much to anyone if they can't procure a meal because their isnt one to buy.

      (Yes I realize CA produces a lot of food - really not the point)

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    52. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, most other goods you can do without.

      Food, food is one you need to have on hand at all times.

    53. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is just cause, "since market forces would drive farms to adopt a single 'most marketable' variety thus wiping out other varieties. A single blight or insect could create famine."
      Just ask Irish potato farmers from 1845. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytophthora_infestans

      Politicians gaming that is a different issue.

    54. Re:Supply and demand by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      That's a reason but I don't think it's a great reason any more. Farmers worldwide are so productive and shipping is so efficient that it's really unlikely we'll have a world-wide famine.

      And when there's a conflict and that shipping no longer happens?

      And keep in mind it takes a few years to start a farm from scratch. So you can't wait for the embargo/blockade/sanctions before building up internal production.

    55. Re:Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Yes, there is, dumb ass.
      The farmer producing to much milk also produces the cattle you eat, the corn you eat or use in your drinks, the grain etc.

      If he goes out of business not only the milk market is influenced ... WTF: it is FOOD, not damn car where you can choose if you take brand a or b and can argue if some subsidizing is on order.

      If the food market crashs because farmers get out of business ... people starve. So governments have a high interest in keeping it afloat.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    56. Re:Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      European farm subsides keep out US products and services using terms like "chemicals" and "health".
      You are mixing up laws with subsidizing.
      First of all subsidizing in Europe is not like it was around the 1970s ...
      If your food does not meet the health standards of our laws, that is your problem not ours.
      A shame that you think your food is so good and so cheap but we are to sheep to buy it ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    57. Re:Supply and demand by smoot123 · · Score: 1

      And when there's a conflict and that shipping no longer happens?

      Well, for sure that's the counter-argument. Perhaps I'm being elitist or wildly optimistic but I don't see any signs of a major conflict erupting which disrupts global food shipments. There's also the argument that increasing trade decreases the likelihood of that conflict happening.

      Realistically speaking, some areas of the world are more likely to have conflicts than other areas. I think the US produces enough of our own food, is safe enough, and has enough trading partners that we have the luxury of ignoring food security issues.

    58. Re: Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Law is law. Does not matter if it is GMO's....
      And the parent talked about hormone poisoned food, not about GMO's

      You fail to produce food according to our standards. So you are abolished in selling it.

      You know how we call this attitude:
      It's very, very different. Lead paint is demonstrably harmful, whereas the hysteria over "GMOs" and "the kemikillzzz!" is just clever marketing.
      Imperialism, you want to force us to use your standards ... good luck.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    59. Re: Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Thailand can meet them, not sure why the US cant.
      Because Thailand is a first world nation, and most important: a civilized nation with high cultural standard, and food is the most important thing in Thailand.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    60. Re: Supply and demand by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      The problem is, unlike TVs or cars, if you have a food shortage people aren't just inconvenienced . They die.

    61. Re: Supply and demand by kaatochacha · · Score: 2

      Thailand meets them because they're not as large an economic threat in those areas. If Thailand started exporting massive amounts of food to the EU, you can bet something would come up making it unsafe.
      Don't believe for a moment that countries don't game these systems for economic reasons. In all directions.

    62. Re:Supply and demand by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      I think the US produces enough of our own food,

      :facepalm:

      So....know why do you think the US produces enough of our own food? Because of these subsidies.

    63. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story bro, what was the last law the Dems passed that only benefited a few?

    64. Re:Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Erm ... on what planet do YOU live?
      Sommer and Autum just ended in the northern hemisphere.

      We had a record low harvest in central Europe (no idea about UK and Scandinavia, did not check), north Africa and Asia. If we had not absurd over production everywhere we actually had trouble. (Usually 40% - 50% of all food gets thrown away) ...

      My GF can not plant the second crop of the year, because lack of water. Isan, Thialand ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    65. Re:Supply and demand by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      Institute policy for good reason. Put it on autopilot and ignore it forever.

      Do you see ANYTHING wrong with that algorithm? We have a record amount of cheese because NOBODY wants it. And yet, we're producing more as demand continues to drop. At some point the dairy farmers have to figure out something else to do.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    66. Re:Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      For Pizza with cheese filled edges?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    67. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Raptor cost: $150 million...but they aren't making any more of them. There's some talk about restarting the production line, but the cost estimates come to $200+ million per plane to do that.

      You're on point that the farm subsidies come in at a higher price tag than that: the last farm bill passed in Congress included $1.2 billion in appropriations. Other than the farm bill summary, I couldn't find any sources that broke down subsidies by year: mostly they talked about "$200 billion since 1995", etc.

    68. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why dairy farmers wanted more access to the Canadian market. And it explains why Big Giant Orange Head was so obsessive over a relatively minor part of the NAFTA agreement (dairy).

      Hey, I get it, dumping subsidized American cheese into the Canadian market would help... a little bit. The problem is that it wouldn't help enough. Warehouses full of cheese would continue to exist, and American dairy farmers would then begin demanding that France buy more American cheese (yeah, like that's gonna happen).

      Anything to avoid the implication that maybe the subsidies are part of the problem and production, one way or another, needs to decline. Either that or get Americans to eat more cheese. Regardless, the American overproduction problem isn't a problem for the rest of the world, it's a problem for America.

    69. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do a big group buy by one of the aid organizations in far away lands. send the cheeze to africa or syria. those folks could use it.

    70. Re:Supply and demand by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      Okay, you need to look at the actual case:
      1. War in Europa or Russia? No more import/export of food. By itself its not as bad, because it will free up South American for more export, since Europa currently has some massive imports of South American livestood feed in various forms
      2. War in South America? No more import of soy and similar Brazilian megafarmed products, to the degree where USA will experience decades where eating livestock might be only possible once or twice a week.
      3. Wartime in Asia will result in a complete collapse of import of various Asian type foods, as well as fish and livestock meat. And since USA is doing some importing, the shortfalls will be felt
      4. Warfare in Africa escalates to the point where sea trade is unsustainable? Again: Nations import a lot of things from Africa. From plants, fruits, to meat. And if Africa industrializes more, they will export more, ergo trade embargo is bad.
      And finally:
      5. Warfare in AMERICA? All of the above, since coastal imports to inland is used to maintain agriculture and livestock production.

      The true terror of this is not that wars or famine happens.
      Its that once it hits, anybody importing anything related to agriculture indirectly will be affected. As a Norwegian i know that if Brazil stops exporting we will get a massive shortage of livestock food, because we various Brazilian crops is used as primary livestock feed. On top of that, its known for a fact that the breeds of cattle requires a far higher nutrition range to grow and graze: Since importing various exotic ingredients has been the norm for a long enough time to affect how cattle are breed, and their targets in nutrition/weight/growth

      Now, USA is at 150% food sufficiency. Norway is at roughly 50%. USA will handle war and famine far better, but it will still have parts of its agriculture that has gotten used to importing some form of exotic livestock feed to compensate for something.

    71. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shipping suddenly gets a lot less efficient if there's an actual major war. The US policy is to not starve if World War III starts. Maybe you think that Word War III is a sufficiently low-probability event that it doesn't make sense to over-prepare for it, but the US doesn't think so.

    72. Re:Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It took me a minute to figure out that you were using the word for Irish moonshine as a nickname for Vodkachest.

      Knock it off or I'll start singing Kevin Barry.

    73. Re:Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Stop "whooshing" yourself.

      You're the one who missed the point.

      When Person A says something dumb, and Person B says something else dumb that changes the focus, that's called the "give and take of conversation," it does not in any way imply that Person B misunderstood anything. Usually it implies that they think what Person A said was either too stupid, or they're actually making a different joke because they didn't think it was funny enough.

    74. Re:Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It's a matter of national security. Why do you think we need a goddamn wall? The Mexicans will come for our cheese and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

      Why build a wall for that? We have a cheese surplus, maybe we just need cheese mortars to push them back. Cheaper, and longer range than a wall. Ingenuity is the American Way, not just passive defenses like a stupid boring wall.

    75. Re:Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      We have a record amount of cheese because NOBODY wants it.

      If things are that bad, give it me, I eat that much cheese every week!

    76. Re: Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I'm nearly a cheesivor, but I can't really imagine dying of a dairy shortage. Crying from a dairy shortage, that I can imagine. But dying?!

      Without dairy, there might actually be more food available rather than less, because dairy cows take up a lot of pasture that would otherwise be growing high yield crops.

    77. Re:Supply and demand by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      I guess that you are Person C. Pleased to meet you.

      I hate explaining my dumb jokes but in the best spirit of tearing down walls -- here you go:

      https://sites.google.com/site/putinpoutines/

    78. Re:Supply and demand by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It's objectively less funny, though. If you could come up with an objective measure, it would certainly rank lower on creativity and style.

    79. Re: Supply and demand by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      But we have food. Too much actually. In all my long years Iâ(TM)ve never seen a food shortage.

      Perhaps that is because after the last food shortage, the government implemented the subsidies to ensure that farmer's don't go out of business trying to sell stuff at below value. So the very thing you are complaining about is what prevents another food shortage.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    80. Re:Supply and demand by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The USA is free anytime to export these products to the EU, they just have to be produced in line with EU standards. It is a totally reasonable expectation.

      They do, and it's a premium product here. It's quite funny when Americans come over here and complain about the price of imported USA beef in the supermarket, and then are amazed at how wonderful it tastes.

    81. Re:Supply and demand by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      There's a very good national security reason:

      Not for breaking supply and demand. There's a national security reason for keeping minimum general foodstuff production in the country, but the result definitely should not be subsidising a product that locally isn't actually wanted.

    82. Re: Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Choices don't need to be proven, to you personally, to be beneficial for them to have a right to exist.

      It seems obvious that EU standards depend on what the people there want, not on what you want, or what you consider proven. Maybe they're simply concerned about it, and consider concerns to meet the standard for regulation?

      Get over yourself, just because you have a big head doesn't mean you know what is or isn't safe.

    83. Re: Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Thailand only even provides a 6th grade education for free to most people. In cities you get up to 8th grade free in many cases. Free high school for poor people requires being a really good student and passing an entrance exam.

      The reason they provide a free 6th grade education is that it is required of the Buddhist monks to teach the classes.

      They're a developing nation, with mostly-developed cities.

      Most farming is still done with manual labor, not with technology; that's the reason they have an easy time meeting EU standards. The standards already included traditional farming practices. They use pesticides and fertilizer, and that's about the only technology they use. Grain silos have stairs, where people carry the sacks to the top and dump them in. Fruits are harvested from trees using poles with baskets on the end.

      Food is important in Thailand, but good luck buying fresh vegetables that aren't wilted. They're not industrialized enough to have that. The first two things Thai Americans notice when they get here; traffic is much safer and more orderly, and the food quality is much much higher. They notice the food quality because they buy a lot raw ingredients, and don't usually choose fast food. (They expect low quality food to be 50% hot peppers, that's why American fast food doesn't appeal to them)

    84. Re:Supply and demand by jrumney · · Score: 1

      New Zealand has a currency problem.

      NZD is quite stable over the past 15 years averaging around 0.70 against the USD. It had a problem in 2008, but had recovered by the end of 2009.

    85. Re:Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Even food stamps weren't created to prevent hunger, they were created to maintain a market for farmers to sell their products.

      Don't presume that just because "preventing hunger" is one of the benefits, that it was also one of the reasons.

      Starving people aren't spending money on food, that is the problem that the government regulates to alleviate.

      The purpose of food reserves are to protect the food market, not to do piddly shit like protect people's lives.

      They are strategic reserves, not reserve charity.

    86. Re: Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Where I live not even the cheapest brand of generic milk has rBST.

      There is probably some place in town that sells one, but you'd have to really go looking for it.

      Those people who whine about chemicals, but also don't read the labels on the food they buy, are just hilarious.

      Another thing I find hilarious; the labels that the government makes them put on the milk that says "* blah blah its all the same, don't badmouth Saint rBST" simply makes it easier to verify that I'm choosing the one I want without it.

    87. Re:Supply and demand by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The supply curve and the demand curve are still there, they aren't broken.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    88. Re:Supply and demand by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Isan is semi-arid. They have great farm production on years when they have enough irrigation. But a significant part of that irrigation comes from the Mekong river, and other countries are using it upstream and downstream, so you can't always use it for a second crop.

      It is totally normal for production to vary widely from year to year based on rainfall patterns.

      In Central Thai they have the opposite problem; some years there is too much flooding for a second crop. Isan has floods too, but they're more localized flash floods below highlands; in Central Thai the main rivers overflow and cover nearly all the farmland for an extended period.

      I have cousins in Isan but luckily they're not farmers.

    89. Re:Supply and demand by smoot123 · · Score: 1

      We already have a zillion ships moving food hither and yon. Why are bad actors not already disappearing ships?

    90. Re:Supply and demand by smoot123 · · Score: 1

      So....know why do you think the US produces enough of our own food? Because of these subsidies.

      For sure, some our surplus is because of subsidies. It's also because we have a great climate, industrious farmers, lots of fertile land, a good transportation system, inexpensive laborers sneaking across the border, stable(ish) finances and legal system, and so forth.

      Point being, I think if we got rid of the subsidies, the US at least would be fine. There might be issues for our trading partners because we'd likely export less.

    91. Re: Supply and demand by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      No one is arguing against choices; you can make all the retarded choices you like. We are merely pointing out that your choices have nothing to do with food safety and everything to do with marketing.

      Are you saying that I can't choose to point out that your politicians are protectionist cunts, and you're a gullible fool? Don't you dare question my choices!

    92. Re:Supply and demand by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You don't understand how subsidies work. The supply and demand curve are still there, along with it is an additional curve. You see when subsidies are in play the optimal solution is not the intersection of the supply and demand curve, but a point intersected by the new line, in this case to the right of the optimal solution where the financially optimal supply is far higher than the financially optimal demand.

      In economic terms the triangle formed between the optimal solution and the two new points formed by the subsidy line is called "dead weight loss".

    93. Re: Supply and demand by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      By the sounds of that... You don't actually know what EU standards are. They aren't particularly high

      Whether or not they're "high" is irrelevant; I'm pointing out that some of them are bullshit. Low bullshit isn't any better than high bullshit.

      Thailand can meet them, not sure why the US cant.

      Because the rules aren't designed to exclude Thailand.

    94. Re:Supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right then, so I take it that you support protected food and agricultural markets for Canada, Mexico, all the NATO countries, all the EU, the Commonwealth, the ASEAN countries, actually every country on Earth. Because, you know, war and famine and stuff.

      In short, high tariffs on agriculture, at minimum, and ideally total bans on trade, are the way to go.

      Because, even a friend and ally (the US) might turn on you at any time (Trump) and stab you in the back (NAFTA).

    95. Re:Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      In isan they had both problems, to much rain and to much drought.
      The first harvest was nearly destroyed by rain, no second planting because of lack of water.

      The Mekong river is not used significantly for irrigation anyway. (To far away ....)

      "in Central Thai the main rivers overflow and cover nearly all the farmland for an extended period."
      Hu? Floods here are from rain ... and no idea what you consider "central Thialand".

      South Thailand just was flooded, not by rivers going over their borders.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    96. Re: Supply and demand by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Well,
      no idea where you live ...
      I live in Thailand.

      And you are contradicting your self between mid and end of your post. So: is the food in Thailand better, or not?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  6. Central planning and price manipulation by gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gov like to control price, production, quota, tax, import, export, subsidise... the end result is always the same: too much or not enough.

    1. Re:Central planning and price manipulation by gov by bobbied · · Score: 0

      Gov like to control price, production, quota, tax, import, export, subsidies... the end result is always the same: too much or not enough.

      Ask the Russians how well this central planning thing works... Oh that's right, that country split up because it's economy died and now days few folks are alive that experienced what it does to you, unless you happen to live in Venezuela right now....

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Central planning and price manipulation by gov by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Gov like to control price, production, quota, tax, import, export, subsidies... the end result is always the same: too much or not enough.

      Ask the Russians how well this central planning thing works... Oh that's right, that country split up because it's economy died and now days few folks are alive that experienced what it does to you, unless you happen to live in Venezuela right now....

      Where did the Russian Oligarchs come from? They were the central planners profiting off the system. Not so different than what we have in place now.

    3. Re:Central planning and price manipulation by gov by dryeo · · Score: 1

      OTOH, it took Russia from a peasant society to a space fairing society in 50 years. If they hadn't been so rigid and moved to a mixed economy, they still might be doing well. Of course, the other problems they had like corruption and complacent government probably would have got them.
      It's one of the big advantages of democracy, rotating governments before they get too complacent and corrupt, which will kill any system.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    4. Re:Central planning and price manipulation by gov by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

      Please, Wright Brothers to Moon Landing was only 66 years. The whole world moves fast now.

    5. Re:Central planning and price manipulation by gov by dryeo · · Score: 2

      In 1900 America was much more advanced then Russia, which still had an aristocracy that traded in peasants and a big secret police bureaucracy. America also didn't sacrifice a large chunk of its population and industrial base to win WWII or have people like Stalin in charge to set things back.
      Another example is China, who once they did switch to a more mixed system advanced pretty quick. When I was a kid, it was "eat your dinner, there's millions of starving Chinese". They were also smart enough to switch governments from the progressive to conservative parts of the party every 8 years, not too different from America. Now that Xi has decided to be dictator for life, they'll probably run into the complacency leading to corruption and no innovation problems.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  7. I will be glad to help by Lije+Baley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love cheese, fancy or not. But it's expensive. Quit hoarding, lower the price, and I'll eat it! Dairy product boom and bust is nothing new in the U.S. When I was a kid, dairy was like some kind of strategic item, with practically a command economy, government subsidies always coming and going. Our neighbor (farmer) got in and out of the dairy business every few years, following the subsidies. In fat (ha ha) years, the government was giving the stuff away.

    --
    Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    1. Re:I will be glad to help by skam240 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I made a trip to the UK a few years ago and found quite a lot of really fucking good cheese of all kinds and varieties for very affordable prices. Over here, anything other than the fundamental basics for cheese are a small fortune. It seems to me our Dairy industry is pretty dysfunctional and I suspect government subsidies are discouraging them from innovating in the context of their surplus milk.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    2. Re:I will be glad to help by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

      The subsidies stem back to the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl. That's when Americans realized that OMG it's possible for the country not to produce enough food to feed everyone. Consequently, the government enacted a system of subsidies to assure there's always overproduction of food. An oversupply would normally crater the market price, so the government buys all that food at a fixed price (high enough to keep the farmers in business). Then resells the food to the public at a lower price.

      That's why corn ethanol and high fructose corn syrup exist. Due to this system, the country grows more corn than it consumes. Consequently the government has to figure out things to do with the excess corn. It becomes foreign aid, feed for cattle, corn ethanol, and high fructose corn syrup. This is why those reports about beef costing us $x per pound in subsides doesn't really mean that we would save $x per pound if we ended the subsidies for cattle feed. The cost to grow that extra corn is a sunk cost. If we stopped using the excess corn for feed, that doesn't mean we get our money back. Its cost would just be distributed to other things we do with the excess corn - corn we send as foreign aid would cost us more, and ethanol and HFCS prices would go up. The way it's set up now, if farmers have a bad corn crop, all that happens is some cows go hungry instead of people going hungry (in fact those cows which can't be fed will probably be slaughtered to produce beef).

      This is also why we we pay farmers not to grow anything - so their land is ready and available to be turned into cropland in case existing cropland should be decimated by disease, pestilence, or another dust bowl. If we didn't pay the farmers, they'd sell the land and it would be used to build condominiums and other things that you can't eat.

      So the subsidies are basically insurance. We're paying extra to guarantee there's always an oversupply of food. We could kill the subsidies and the average price of food over time would be lower. But some years we wouldn't produce enough food to feed everyone and food prices would spike.

    3. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The subsidies stem back to the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl. That's when Americans realized that OMG it's possible for the country not to produce enough food to feed everyone.

      That's actually false on multiple accounts, as there had been actual famines before in the past, but actually, neither the Great Depression or even the Dust Bowl caused a reduction in food production.

      The problem was the food was left to rot because of market controls.

      The food was wasted.

      This is also why we we pay farmers not to grow anything - so their land is ready and available to be turned into cropland in case existing cropland should be decimated by disease, pestilence, or another dust bowl. If we didn't pay the farmers, they'd sell the land and it would be used to build condominiums and other things that you can't eat.

      Also wrong. Nobody is looking to put condominium complexes in the rural areas where people are paid not to farm, and there is no expectation for the land to be returned to food production.

      So the subsidies are basically insurance. We're paying extra to guarantee there's always an oversupply of food. We could kill the subsidies and the average price of food over time would be lower. But some years we wouldn't produce enough food to feed everyone and food prices would spike.

      Food prices are spiking anyway. The third horseman is on the loose, and Hades is soon to follow.

    4. Re:I will be glad to help by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The subsidies stem back to the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl. That's when Americans realized that OMG it's possible for the country not to produce enough food to feed everyone.

      This is nonsense. The dust bowl affected mostly Oklahoma and Kansas, and did NOT lead to food shortages. The problem during the depression was OVER PRODUCTION and FALLING PRICES. And the purpose of the subsidies was an attempt to pull land out of production, and raise prices to fight deflation.

      This was part of the NIRA, which was struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional in 1935.

    5. Re:I will be glad to help by smoot123 · · Score: 1

      That's when Americans realized that OMG it's possible for the country not to produce enough food to feed everyone.

      Really? People have experienced famines since the dawn of time. The last century or so has been the first time in human history that we grew enough food that famine isn't a realistic possibility any more.

      Now that I think about it, I wonder when the last US famine was? I've heard asserted that we grow enough food now that there's no reason to expect any human to ever starve again unless there's some political cause for a food shortage. If that's so, and I find it plausible, that's an historic achievement.

    6. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is also why we we pay farmers not to grow anything - .

      Not this week; we don't.

    7. Re:I will be glad to help by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      In fat (ha ha) years, the government was giving the stuff away.

      I do not like green eggs and the gubment cheese...

    8. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America is experiencing a famine of intelligence, education, and information. This is why Solandri makes posts almost every day that are factually deficient.

    9. Re: I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I find Canada is an excellent place for cheese, as they draw on both the British and French cheese making traditions.

    10. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's strange. I went to a cheese shop over there and they seemed to be fresh out of every kind of cheese I asked for.

      I remember thinking that the guy behind the counter looked remarkably like Michael Palin.

    11. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they ought to ship some to Anchorage and see if it will keep the local moose from wandering into the hospital; they're obviously hungry, so perhaps some cheese might help...

    12. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I made a trip to the UK a few years ago and found quite a lot of really fucking good cheese of all kinds and varieties for very affordable prices. Over here, anything other than the fundamental basics for cheese are a small fortune. It seems to me our Dairy industry is pretty dysfunctional and I suspect government subsidies are discouraging them from innovating in the context of their surplus milk.

      As a Brit, I do think we are blessed with very good cheeses.... can't beat a good piece of Lancashire, Cheshire, Caerphilly, Wensleydale (Wallace and Gromit.....)

    13. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but you are uniformed: millions died in the great famine in Ukraine 1932-1933) and millions suffered of famine during the "glorious" time of communism in eastern Europe (1945-1989).
      famine is still present on Africa and I am not mentioning North Korea......
      So famine is still present and possible.....

    14. Re:I will be glad to help by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Just for everyone's info, this AC is wrong and an idiot. I see farmland being made into residential suburbs all the time where I live. Once it is converted, it ain't coming back to farmland again. And we are talking prime prairie land too.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
    15. Re: I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A) Resdential Suburbs are not condominiums

      B) The places where people are paid not to farm aren't around your city anyway.

      C) Even with all the urban sprawl, there is no shortage of farmland.

      Sorry, but it just isn't the way you want it to be. And no, the Field of Dreams doesn't count.

    16. Re: I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the Ukraine, they actually confiscated the grain to sell on the world market.

      Not a productivity problem, believe it or not.

      Same in Africa, where food is being grown and exported. Foreigners, including the Chinese acquire land and use it for their own needs.

      Hmm.

      Even in China, they still shipped out foodstuffs after the failures of Soviet techniques and their Four Pests campaign, because?

      Oh yeah.

      And that is why there is no famine in North Korea. It's a different problem.

    17. Re:I will be glad to help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's quite an explanation for what amounts to redistribution of wealth to special interests.

  8. Not cheese, but by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 1

    I'd buy yogurt daily, but my supermarket stopped carrying key-lime flavored whole milk yogurt. And every single other whole milk yogurt that isn't plain or in a three dollar glass jar. Damn lowfat poseur wannabe fake yogurt eaters.

    1. Re:Not cheese, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't you add key-lime flavor to plain yogurt?

      Pre-flavored yogurts are already ridiculously high in sugar anyway...

    2. Re: Not cheese, but by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 1

      Tried that. Curdle central from the acid.

    3. Re:Not cheese, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5380-key-limes-vs-persian-limes

    4. Re:Not cheese, but by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I'd buy yogurt daily

      Get a yogurt maker, such as this one (which also makes great soup). Then you can make your own yogurt for the price of whole milk, and eat it fresh.

    5. Re:Not cheese, but by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      Yoghurt is cheaper than milk for me ... I don't really see the point.

    6. Re:Not cheese, but by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Yoghurt is cheaper than milk for me ... I don't really see the point.

      Where is that?

      Why would anyone make milk into yogurt if the yogurt is cheaper?

      Where I am, milk is $3 per gallon. Yogurt is $0.60 per cup, or nearly $10 per gallon.

    7. Re:Not cheese, but by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      Netherlands. 1L organic milk is 1.12 Euro at my nearest supermarket, organic yoghurt is 98 cents. Difference hold for non organic.

      I assume it is because they have less risk on yoghurt sales due to longer shelf life and lots of competition.

    8. Re: Not cheese, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yoghurt and milk are more or less the same price in supermarkets.

    9. Re:Not cheese, but by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Because you live on the dark side of the moon ...
      Or your 101 economics education hits its limits ... /me looks at the "consume before date" of his fresh can of milk: 19th of January 2019 /me looks at the "consume before date" of his fresh glass of Yoghurt: 19th of May of 2019

      Now it is up to your bet when the 'milk' and when the yoghurt left the cow ....

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:Not cheese, but by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      There are all sorts of interesting things here. In the UK, a lot of supermarkets sell milk as a loss leader: many people think about the price of milk as a proxy for the price of everything, so if milk is cheaper in your shop then they assume that everything is cheaper. They also often have very short-term supply contracts with farms and will buy a week in advance and shift suppliers to keep their costs low. Farms often find that no one will buy their milk in a given week for above the production cost, but they sell it for below cost because they have no marginal cost from producing milk and their fixed costs are the same whether they sell or don't (if they sell, they go out of business eventually, if they don't sell then they go out of business soon). This then means that there isn't a contraction in supply (at least, in the short term), so other farms can't raise their prices. The supermarkets form an oligopsony that keeps the price very low.

      As you say, if you can produce yoghurt some of your milk, you can keep it for a few weeks and watch the prices fluctuate, selling it only when the price goes above the cost of production. I'd expect that to keep the price of milk lower, but it may be that in the Netherlands there either isn't the same oligopsony of supermarkets, there isn't the trend of using milk as a loss leader, or there so many farms are betting on yoghurt that there's a supply shortage for milk. It may even be that yoghurt is filling the same loss-leader niche as milk in the UK.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  9. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe if the cheese was of a better quality like you get elsewhere in the world it would sell better?

    Also, cheese isn't the only thing to do with excess milk - butter and milk powder are globally traded commodities.

    Do the Chinese buy up US-made infant formula like they do Australian and New Zealand formulas?

    Also interesting to note that the article talked about consolidation of diary farms, but what it omitted is that on a global scale, the average US dairy farm is still what would be considered a hobby farm in Australia and New Zealand (the world's largest exporter of dairy products)

    1. Re: And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather the USA would follow Europe and keep the scale of dairy farms within bounds, in order to safeguard animal welfare and curtail the risks of livestock diseases. The Chinese like Dutch formula even more than Nee Zealand formula.

    2. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with cheese in general is that it has a high amount of saturated fat instead of the healthier polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats, so even if the price was lowered significantly it still wouldn't be particularly healthy to eat large amounts of it.

    3. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saturated animal fat is good. This isn't very much an issue, for me at least ; I would actually worry about eating too much calcium would I indulge in unhinged cheese fantasies.

  10. And most of it is coming out of Hollywood by elrous0 · · Score: 0

    Thank you folks, I'll be here all week. Be sure to try our award-winning potato bar.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  11. Part of the answer by techno-vampire · · Score: 2

    If Americans aren't eating processed cheese slices or string cheese, the Feds should be discouraging dairy farmers from making it. Sell off what they've got in storage to supply the market, and get the farmers to make other cheeses instead, such as Swiss, Cheddar, Muenster and Jack. Also, get them to make more yogurt, as that's very popular now especially among the health conscious and those trying to lose weight.

    --
    Good, inexpensive web hosting
    1. Re: Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree - they make what they make in the places they make it. If you want to decide where and when and what kind of cheese is made build your own factory. Either way, you gotta care a whole lot to make that much cheese and hope it sells!

    2. Re: Part of the answer by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      I said "discourage," not "forbid." If the Feds paid less for those cheeses than for other, more popular varieties would probably be all that's needed. If not, simply stop accepting processed cheese slices or string cheese for storage, and let the farmers who insist on making it try to sell it on the open market without subsidies. Once they see that they can't sell it that way and still turn a profit, they'll have two choices: stop making it, or go bankrupt.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    3. Re:Part of the answer by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Informative

      I take it, then, that you've never tried plain unsweetened yogurt. Not only is it tasty and nutritious, there are lots of recipes out there that use it.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    4. Re:Part of the answer by BlazeMiskulin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Farmers don't make the cheese. They raise cows that produce milk.

    5. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans wouldn't put that down their pie hole unless you find a way to slather it in chocolate sauce

    6. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheese is fat, which is one of the four essential nutrients: fat, protein, carbohydrates and fiber. What people don't need is an excess of simple carb's which are usually high on the glycemic index - which causes sugar spikes and unused calories are stored as fat. Complex carbs on the other hand tend to be low on the glycemic index, are digested slower and not as prone to be converted to sugar.

    7. Re:Part of the answer by techno-vampire · · Score: 2

      Speak for your self, AC. I've been eating yogurt since before it came flavored, and still like it. Not only that, just try making tzaziki or tandoori chicken without it.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    8. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that weight is an issue in the USA, but I don't see cheese as the cause. Rather I expect it's the glut of sugar, carbs and processed foods that we are fed. Anecdotally, I had my adult son shift from sweetened sodas to club soda, and he shed 30 lbs in a year.

      I myself was a chronic (read: daily) consumer of cheeses for 50 years, and never weighed more than 10 lbs over my ideal weight. My metabolism does well on Atkins-like diets, though, which feature plenty of fats and proteins. YMMV.

      Sadly, one day (2009) I suddenly became violently allergic to all milk products, and suffered through six months of excruciating urticaria before isolating the cause. Even now I treat myself to a cheese day on the first of every month to see if the allergy has subsided. No luck so far, though, and it takes several weeks for my body to recover from the rashes, lesions and itching this causes. Try eating for a single week without butter, cream, cheese, milk, yogurt, cream cheese, sour cream or any other dairy derived food in any dish you consume. It's nearly impossible in the USA.

      I wish I knew what changed to cause the allergy. There are reports that some insect bites can trigger this. I also wish there was a remedy for this condition, because I have never met a cheese I didn't love, and I miss it terribly.

      One more anecdote: my grandson turned up violently allergic to all dairy at the age of six months. You can touch a piece of cheese with your finger, and then touch his cheek, and it will instantly turn red and itchy. The only upside of my malady, is that I have spent the past ten years learning how to avoid dairy, so I can advise his parents.

      Sorry for the sad tale. Have a slice of pizza for me - please!

    9. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they sell off what's currently in storage, that would crater the market and stop manufacturers from producing the stuff. Then when the stocks run out, there's a shortage.

      This is why government intervention in markets is problematic. Not necessarily bad, it's often the lesser evil, but it does create problems.

    10. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine a world where pizza was cost-competitive with hamburgers! Everybody loves pizza, so this is an issue with strong bipartisan support.
      They should pass a pizza subsidy act, so every US citizen is guaranteed access to low cost slices made with real Mozzarella, Provolone, Cheddar, and Parmesan.

      We can do it America. Vote "Yes" on Proposition 314159.

      ---
      * This comment paid for by Anonymous Cowards for delicious pizza.

    11. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheese is a fuckton of protein and high quality ones. I feel like you can easily live on bread and cheese alone (but you may prefer it not be the typical US bread and US cheese)

    12. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am sorry for you. Please make yourself a pizza with no cheese!
      If that happened to me I'd do sort of fine due to the "vegan" people around and their vegan stuff. (but I haven't bought coconut oil yet. else I would know how bad or decent pasta with coconut oil is).

      Allegedly, the first pizza had no cheese at all but was tomato and fish (could have been invented in south-eastern coastal France but these people invented highly exaggerated claims too).
      A modern one is : tomato, basil, oregano, olives, capers, anchovies.
      Pour olive oil, spicy or not before eating (well, as a matter of course, but this pizza is not fat enough)

    13. Re: Part of the answer by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      That depends somewhat on the farmer. That farm shop cheese made on the farm I brought before Christmas must be a figment of my imagination then? Then again I am not in the USA, but I find it hard to believe that no farmers in the USA make cheese.

    14. Re:Part of the answer by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      A lot of people are allergic to dairy, you insensitive clod!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    15. Re:Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak for your self, AC. I've been eating yogurt since before it came flavored, and still like it. Not only that, just try making tzaziki or tandoori chicken without it.

      Also try trying it with a bit of Greek honey and some slices of banana and apple in it. Really good

    16. Re: Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely: They stop making it because they went bankrupt.

    17. Re: Part of the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the Feds paid less for those cheeses than for other, more popular varieties would probably be all that's needed.

      In Soviet USA, cheese eats you.

  12. True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by johnjones · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    True mozzarella is made from buffalo not cow's

    ignorance is not an excuse

    Mozzarella was granted Protected Designation of Origin status by the European Union in 1996

     

    1. Re: True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is THAT why Germans grumble when they have to put their own nuts and fruits in the mozzarella because they cant buy it that way in the store like they can with Gouda, Cheddar, etc.?

    2. Re:True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      America has buffalo mozzarella too. Believe it or not, we have everything.

    3. Re:True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Provel was granted shut your pie hole status in America,

    4. Re:True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Europe doesn't have buffalo, you idiot. Mozzarella is Italian, and it's made from Italian milk. Hopefully hot Italians, but it's probably old, flabby bitches.

    5. Re: True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are people who put nuts and fruits in mozzarella? Seriously?

    6. Re: True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty of buffalo farms in Italy.

    7. Re:True mozzarella NOT what Americans call it... by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      A comment about cheese on an article about cheese is moderated "Offtopic"?
      Fucking hell. What kind of kids are running this show nowadays?

      --
      I tend to rant.
  13. Another Trump comment by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Informative

    And Trump criticizes Canada's supply management which is aimed to discourage overproduction. Jesus.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Another Trump comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump is a moron, Republicans in congress are cowards. Both are responsible.

    2. Re:Another Trump comment by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Trump has loudly criticized the Canadian subsidies for farmers and tried to get them removed from NAFTA, so yes, it is Trump. He could change US farm subsidies if he didn't want to look like such a hypocrite. So yes, it is Trump.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  14. Results by DaMattster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These are the results of corporate America not responding quickly enough (and maybe doubling down against) to demands by Americans for healthier foods. I feel badly for the small farmers that are adversely impacted because they basically produce what the larger buyers order them to produce. I recall something the President of Kraft Foods said in the 1960s. He said that these preservatives were made for the space race and to keep food fresh for astronauts on long trips. He specifically said these preservatives are not safe for long term consumption. It just goes to show Corporate America doesn't give a flying fuck about you and me past the money we give.

    1. Re:Results by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      link? source? some idea of where to look for this....

    2. Re:Results by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No these are the results of corporate America not responding quickly enough to demands by Americans for more sugar laden foods. I eat a lot more cheese than I used to and for good reason: Sugar is deadly. Switch to a low carb, high fat diet today and you might avoid that heart attack.

  15. Re:??? by bobbied · · Score: 1

    You are exactly correct. This isn't a problem with capitalism, but government intervention.

    The government is PAYING farmers to produce milk... Disrupting the natural supply and demand curbs.. Over 70% of producer's profits come from the government, so we are getting loads of extra production that cannot be used.

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/dairy-subsidies-government-farm-programs-surplus-cheese/

    Capitalism is doing that it does best and producing what it can sell, only in this case the government is paying for a bunch of it so we have more than we can use. Yet again another way government wastes your money....

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  16. It's simple. by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just stop f'ing subsidizing stuff. The end result is always uneconomic, unintended consequences. And, "American cheese" just sucks, anyway. If they're going to build a cheese bank, make it aged Cheddar or Colby or Gouda (IMHO).

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:It's simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American Cheese is not any particular cheese, but a blend of two or more cheeses, so you're just wasting your time complaining about it sucking.

    2. Re:It's simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, "American cheese" just sucks, anyway.

      Use the tool that's right for the job.

      American cheese is for burgers and grilled cheese and the like.

  17. Say CHEESE! by Zorro · · Score: 1

    Time for a world record Fondue!

  18. Ilchester? by akunkel · · Score: 0

    No.

  19. That's nice this isn't an EU issue by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

    What's more the obvious solution is for our dairy industry to start making more expensive cheeses and carving into the imports.

  20. I'm doing my part, 180lb+/year. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keto!

  21. Cheese? by tquasar · · Score: 2

    Could it be that the product isn't cheese? The label says "pasteurized process cheese food". Send it to any cheese producing region in the world and see how it's received by the locals. My mom made grilled cheese sandwiches when I was a child but I wouldn't eat the stuff today. Local stores carry a wide variety of cheese with different flavors and textures.

    1. Re:Cheese? by smoot123 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The label says "pasteurized process cheese food".

      You're being too generous. IIRC, it's "pasteurized processed cheese food product". I don't know how a food is different from a food product and I'm pretty happy that way. I'll just stay away from the nasty stuff.

      (Well, except I have a recipe for a Velveeta-based chili cheese dip. It's appalling but really tasty after a few beers.)

    2. Re:Cheese? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I don't know how a food is different from a food product

      I dunno? Maybe the food is cheese-like stuff in a packet and the food poduce is the awesome stuff you can spray out of a can.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:Cheese? by quenda · · Score: 2

      Could it be that the product isn't cheese?

      Exactly. American "Cheese" is not cheese. Even in the US itself, it cannot be labelled as cheese, but must be called "processed cheese", "cheese-based food" or "edible congealed rubber-like product".

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    4. Re:Cheese? by sabbede · · Score: 1

      As I recall, some of it is "cheese product", the rest is mostly American and Cheddar.

    5. Re:Cheese? by sabbede · · Score: 2

      That's only because it's a blend of other cheeses. It's not "not real cheese", it's several real cheeses. I'm rather partial to Land o' Lakes White American, which I believe is a cheddar and muenster blend. Not at all rubbery or plasticy like your typical yellow cellophane-wrapped single.

    6. Re:Cheese? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Could it be that the product isn't cheese?

      Exactly. American "Cheese" is not cheese. Even in the US itself, it cannot be labelled as cheese, but must be called "processed cheese", "cheese-based food" or "edible congealed rubber-like product".

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      You can buy American cheese which is actual cheese. It comes in white and yellow varieties. When you get cheese at the deli this is what you get. Also most sandwich/sub shops use real cheese.

      There is processed cheese food which is generally aimed at children, the poor and McDonald's customers.

      Now, I'm not going to defend the state of American cheese vs the rest of the world. But it is real cheese - there's no reason to exaggerate to win this argument.

    7. Re:Cheese? by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      All that stuff is made from the whey instead of the curds. Cheese curds are what is made into traditional cheeses. The whey has historically been a waste product. At some point someone realized they could evaporate the water out and use the resulting whey powder to make more products to sell. So while some of us don't really like the cheese products they are good in the sense that they reduce the amount of waste that needs to be disposed of.

    8. Re:Cheese? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      The story is about cheese made in America, not American "cheese".

    9. Re:Cheese? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Do you have any idea how much energy it costs to evapourate 1l of water to get the 2g - 3g of "cheese" as result?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:Cheese? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, no, you don't know what you are talking about. No one "evaporates" water (milk, actually) to get cheese.

      You mix rennet into milk and that precipitates the solids out of milk. The result is curds (the solids) and whey (the liquids). Separating the solids from the liquid is trivial at that point, one common method is large, industrial sized slotted ladles. I believe that batches of curds are routinely squeezed to consolidate the curds and get the last of the whey out.

      Curds go on to become cheese and whey is used for other stuff. AFAIK most of the value is in the curds, with cheese makers having to be creative in how to get rid of the whey.

    11. Re:Cheese? by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      I'm not enough of a science nerd to know off the top of my head, and I'm way to lazy to look it up. That said I know roughly how the process works to evaporate the water out of the whey, and it strikes me as something that doesn't have to be very energy intensive. They use towers where they have a constant slow flow of dry warm/hot air coming in the bottom of the tower and exiting at the top. The whey is sprayed as a fine mist down into the tower from the top. The tiny droplets of whey maximize the surface area and allow the water to evaporate so that at the bottom of the tower you collect just powder.

      The heat for the air could be recycled waste heat from other processes. The air may or may not need to be dehumidified depending on how much heat you can get cheaply and the natural climate.

      Given industrial production of cheese products reducing the volume of waste material is critical. Historically whey was just dumped into our public water ways when there was too much of it to use in other ways. That led to algae blooms that poisoned those water ways. Even though reducing the whey into powder takes more energy and money, it reduces the volume of waste by a very large factor and results in another product that can be used and sold. What's not to like about that? Environmentalists get less pollution. Capitalists get more product to sell out of the same raw materials. Consumers get more variety of products possibly at better prices and a cleaner environment. The only group I can see with a real gripe is cheese snobs who are just angry that such a thing exists.

  22. Free Market! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Free Market is a bitch isn't it.

    First in line for free markets, first in line for a government handout--Go Red!.

  23. Re:??? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    You're talking like the free market system has a hope in hell of working with dairy in an efficient way. There's a reason why most countries regulate the dairy market.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  24. Melt it and store it underground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could call it the Strategic Cheese Reserve.

  25. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Turn it into Cheetos dust and ship it to Pennsylvania Avenue. Will be absorbed in no time.

  26. Time for more Govmint Cheese! by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

    Government cheese! I've made a few omelets from it back in the 80s. The stuff was pretty decent. Do they still distribute it?

    Excellent story about it at Planet Money: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/08/31/643486297/episode-862-big-government-cheese

    --
    SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
    1. Re:Time for more Govmint Cheese! by Squatting_Dog · · Score: 1

      Ah! Government cheese was awesome! I had some from an in-laws father back in the day and it was wonderful! I just wish the govt. still made it.

  27. Re:??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it were totally 100% left up to the free market, the REAL situation we'd have with food supplies is that they'd wildly thrash back and forth between abundance and scarcity. One year, stores would have lots of cheap cheese to try and dump. The next year, after farmers left the dairy business, supply might appear normal. Then we'd have a year when something went wrong, and suddenly buying a pound of sliced Swiss cheese might entail driving around to 3 grocery stores trying to find one that wasn't completely wiped out of cheese... then paying $2.50 per slice for it.

    Food is one of those areas where wasteful abundance IS a net improvement over efficient, profitable scarcity. People might not literally STARVE, but the fact is, living in a first-world country brings with it certain norms and assumptions, like "I can go to any grocery store, whenever I want, expecting to find reasonable, sane quantities of whatever I want to buy... and find it there, in stock, at the same price it was last week."

    Do you REALLY want to live in a world where food becomes genuinely seasonal and regional again, and you have to plan "what do I feel like eating tonight" around "what does the store actually have available to PURCHASE this week?" Personally, I LIKE being able to walk into Publix any time I damn well please, confident that they're likely to have whatever I want in abundance regardless of what this year's crop yield was like, or where I'm geographically located.

  28. Then why by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

    Then why is anything better than spray-cheese so bloody expensive?

  29. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given the current crisis I think this may be worth a thought.

    At first the border wall was to be made of concrete, then of steel. Given it's to be a monument to the Great Pumpkin's ego, why not make it of surplus cheese? It's the right color at least, and undoubtedly at least as effective over the long run.

  30. Processed Cheese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "But Americans are turning their noses up at those processed cheese slices"

    Since the late 80s most Americans except the poor have turned their noses up at this crap. If you're only now realizing this, then you're so out of touch with reality that it is no surprise that America's dairy farmers are facing such a shortage of sales and money.

    Processed 'cheese' isn't cheese at all, so get rid of that shit to start with.

    1. Re:Processed Cheese by rl117 · · Score: 1

      Don't know about the US, but in the UK Kraft had to rename their processed cheese slices to "Singles" because however it's made, it doesn't meet the criteria to call it cheese.

    2. Re:Processed Cheese by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      They use the "Singles" brand name in the US, because it doesn't qualify as cheese here either. It's is labeled "pasteurized processed cheese food" or "pasteurized processed cheese product".

      It's mostly made from whey, so it's actually a semi-decent use of an otherwise waste product....it just tastes awful in anything where you want more than a cheese texture.

    3. Re:Processed Cheese by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The Tesco own-brand ones are called 'Cheese Food Slices'. I'm quite surprised that they're allowed to get away with calling them food...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  31. Maybe you could feed that suplus milk to calves by ffkom · · Score: 1

    ... to produce more tasty meat. Oh, sorry, I did forget that feeding natural food to living beings is kind of a no-go in the US. But seriously, you should at least once taste local specialties like the "Tiroler Milchkalb" in Austria, those are calves actually fed with cow milk, and you can taste the difference.

  32. "American Cheese" by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    TFS Didn't say cheese. It said "American Cheese". That's the problem. No one wants to eat American Cheese.

    I've got some lovely French cheese in the fridge at home.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:"American Cheese" by Picodon · · Score: 2

      You’re right about the summary, but what the (Vox) article really said is American (along with “cheddar, Swiss and other cheese varieties on record”), which is much worse than just “cheese from the U.S.” Go ahead and check that Wikipedia article, and enjoy the mouth-watering pictures and description: “American cheese cannot be legally sold under the name (authentic) "cheese" in the US. Instead, federal laws mandate that it be labeled as "processed cheese" [...] or "cheese food".” Perhaps we should just stick to its popular earlier names of “factory cheese” or “yellow cheese” (Which, without a doubt, many of our contemporaries will surmise comes from yellow cows.)

      So, may be the USDA should instead say that we have a monster surplus of... “cheese food” (sounds like food for the cheese monster, yum).

      In all fairness, there are good cheese producers in this country (and also in Canada), who try to fight the Walmarts of the cheese industry and deserve some recognition. However, I suspect that those producers are little concerned by the USDA surplus report.

  33. bad headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, is this a surplus of cheese in America, or a surplus of American Cheese? (heavily processed cheese squares). Or both? A surplus of American American cheese?

  34. Make America grate again ! by Eric.pl · · Score: 0

    Recommended by a French guy.

  35. The moon's made of cheese, Gromit! by ben_kelley · · Score: 1

    Potential as a building material? I mean, if they could make the moon out of it. Just sayin'

  36. An educated post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The amount of uneducated posts in the comments is really not a good reflection of the depth of knowledge on Slashdot.

    I work in the dairy industry. Many people on here seem to think this excess exists because of government subsidies keeping farmers afloat. That's not true at all. very little money is passed directly to small family farms. Our area used to be filled with 50-100 cow farms run by individual families. Over the last 3-4 years about 75% have gone bankrupt. These are people who have done this all their lives, and when they close the doors most have no idea where to go and many are resorting to suicide. Its a really sad reflection on the population that seems to think things like farm to table, small farmers, etc are a hip thing... unfortunately we hung the family farm out to dry years ago.

    1. Re:An educated post by rl117 · · Score: 1

      It's the same story in the UK, with many closures and a terrible suicide rate. Small family-run dairy farms are no longer profitable, and the outright abuse of such farmers by big supermarkets and buying groups really should have been investigated. Many were running for years at a loss due to how they were screwed over by them. The milk market seems badly broken.

  37. There is indeed a good reason by Pollux · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

    There is a reason, and it's a damn good one: To regulate supply and stabilize pricing.

    Think about it: have you ever had to worry about food, really, really worry about it? A moderate price increase due to increasing oil prices at the turn of the century is the closest our country has ever come to a "food crisis". There has never been a serious food shortage or price inflation for food in the US for as long as I've been alive.

    It used to not be that way. You can go back to the 70s, and read about how rapidly fluctuating food prices created quite a political stir, as evidenced by the April 1973 cover of Time Magazine. If you study the data on this page, you can see both how food prices (particularly beef) stabilized after 1980, and how the average worker has seen a steady increase over time in the amount of food that can be purchased with their wages.

    That has been the primary purpose of the US Farm Bill: to encourage, subsidize, and regulate the food market, stabilizing pricing and providing ample food supply. Because when there's oversupply, people complain about food going to waste. When there's a lack of supply, people riot and governments collapse. Which would you really prefer?

    1. Re:There is indeed a good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I definitely wouldn't want the government command and controlled economy of Russia where millions starved while goods just rotted in warehouses.

    2. Re:There is indeed a good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because when there's oversupply, people complain about food going to waste. When there's a lack of supply, people riot and governments collapse. Which would you really prefer?

      You're wasting your breath. GP is probably one of those snowflake libertarians who believes that perfect market information can yield the perfect amount of food, while maximizing profit, minimizing waste, and most importantly not giving any handouts to anyone who's not a male white anglo-saxon protestant.

    3. Re:There is indeed a good reason by crunchygranola · · Score: 2

      There's no good reason for the government to constantly exempt farmers from the normal law of supply and demand.

      There is a reason, and it's a damn good one: To regulate supply and stabilize pricing.

      Think about it: have you ever had to worry about food, really, really worry about it?

      I entirely agree. There is no agricultural economy anywhere in the world that does not require government intervention to maintain a stable business environment. It is the nature of the beast. Industrial agriculture is vulnerable to the vagaries of nature, and have characteristics that no other economic activity possess - it is an essential primary producer, it is tied to seasonal cycles by nature with naturally fixed production cycles, it has large capital inputs that must be recouped on an annual basis, and the ability to stockpile its product (create "inventory") is limited at best.

      That has been the primary purpose of the US Farm Bill: to encourage, subsidize, and regulate the food market, stabilizing pricing and providing ample food supply.

      Lots of caveats about that though. Yes, that should be the primary purpose of the US Farm Bill. But in an era in which farm production is almost entirely from huge agricultural corporations it is heavily loaded with nonsensical and even counter-productive pay-offs, and actual management of supply (as in the milk situation) has been poor. The worst example is the Federally mandated for grotesque over-production that greatly exceeds all other farm products in tonnage and value in the U.S. Most of that corn goes into government-subsidized gasohol production, a strictly energy-negative activity that increases the U.S. carbon footprint. It is basically handing over taxpayer money to the likes of Archer-Danile-Midlands to produce a crop that Americans don't need, at a heavy cost to the environment. That should be stopped completely.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    4. Re:There is indeed a good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There is no agricultural economy anywhere in the world that does not require government intervention to maintain a stable business environment. It is the nature of the beast. Industrial agriculture is vulnerable to the vagaries of nature, and have characteristics that no other economic activity possess - it is an essential primary producer, it is tied to seasonal cycles by nature with naturally fixed production cycles, it has large capital inputs that must be recouped on an annual basis, and the ability to stockpile its product (create "inventory") is limited at best."

      You can't prove that at all. New Zealand ended their subsidies and they are doing very well.

    5. Re:There is indeed a good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is all nonsense. We shouldn't have the government keeping dairy afloat. I've been to these farms. Visited one this summer owned by a European immigrant family brought in on stupid visa programs. See South Dakota, EB5, Joop Bollen, etc. Sure they prop up land prices by bringing in capital but its wrong. Sure they prop up crop prices by giving corn and soy an outlet, but its wrong. We don't NEED that much dairy in a war either. Farmers could grow better crops. Stable crops too like beans, lentils etc. (We could actually eat those foods and have lower cancer rates like India!) More stable than a cave full of cheese product. This is just one aspect of the whole thing, one cog in the whole machine. Farming and Ag in America is so intertwined and corrupt.

    6. Re:There is indeed a good reason by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      There is no agricultural economy anywhere in the world that does not require government intervention to maintain a stable business environment.
      agricultural economys don't exist anymore. In our times, in agriculture work about 1% of the population.
      However: all food comes from agriculture. My GF is half teacher and half farmer, she farms rice. Only rice. She says: we have rice, we are rich. People who have no rice, are not rich ...
      She lives on a property with 2 sisters, the third sister next town. One of he sisters here is handicapped ... her husband left her ... she has 8 tons of rice in her living room.
      Eight tons ...160 sacks full with rice stapled around the walls ...
      We only have 8 sacks, 400kg of Thai Jasmine rice ... more worth than she earns in two years as teacher.

      Global warming is hitting central Isan very badly. The King Rama IX fund for changing irrigation and farming habits is running out. Food might be a real concern for Thailand soon ... (and Thailand is the biggest export nation for rice at the moment, just to give a perspective)

      Oh, if you want to know why she is rich, she earns about $500 per month ... but she has rice.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  38. SIMPLE SOLUTION by p51d007 · · Score: 1

    WIC, food stamps, SNAP, or others...give it to them.

  39. Coincidence I read about this last night by raymorris · · Score: 1

    What I strange topic to come up now. Last night, I was wondering what exactly "American cheese" is. I looked it up on Wikipedia and from there I started reading on Wikipedia about the sizeable cheese stockpiles in various countries.

    Odd that this would come up on Slashdot the next day.

    1. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes coincidences evaporate on closer inspection. Any possibility that you were wondering about what "American cheese" is due to some noise related to this story?

    2. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Last night, I was wondering what exactly "American cheese" is.

      It's this tasteless, rubbery gunk that, in some cases, looks pretty close to cheese.

      It's really weird stuff, when I lived in the US I initially bought generic cheese (i.e. went for the most average product because their cheese looks weird and I wanted to go for the safest option), and it was tasteless rubbery gunk. So I bought stronger cheese, and it was tasteless rubbery gunk. Then I bought extra strong, mature, whatever cheese, and it was still tasteless rubbery gunk. A few months later I was on a plane stuck on the tarmac due to snow and chatting to the guy next to me, who was a cheese importer. He said business was tough, because it was hard to sell cheese with any flavour when most people went for the most bland gunk there was. So there were twenty different types of cheese in the supermarket, but all were the same bland gunk, because that's what sold.

    3. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Harvey+Manfrenjenson · · Score: 1

      You were going to a crap supermarket then. There are plenty of world-class cheeses made in the US. They might represent a small share of the overall market, so I understand the frustration of your cheese-importing friend, but they exist.

    4. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by KiloByte · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's something worse: American "chocolate". I first thought the sample I tried is badly spoiled -- it tasted like vomit. Turns out, US manufacturers intentionally add butyric acid (which is a good part of what makes vomit smell) because it was what "consumers demand".

      Early on, chocolate production in the US was done with exceptionally bad hygiene and poor process, resulting in a product that was spoiled and in any civilised setting would be thrown out. Yet like that cheese gunk, companies instead make people think this is what chocolate tastes like.

      Being able to legally call a product with no cocoa at all "chocolate" doesn't help, either.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    5. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "American" is a type of cheese, like "cheddar" - except bland and less-everything. It'd be interesting if there were anywhere in the world that also made that exact type of cheese but called it something else, like "fromage pour chiens"
      It's really not remarkable in any way, I could go the rest of my life without ever intentionally eating it again. Same goes for "nacho" cheese. Imagine living your life thinking that's all there was, American and Nacho. Welcome to Kansas.

    6. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly targeted ads

    7. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by dargaud · · Score: 2
      One explanation is that there are basically 2 types of milk: good quality with high cream and low water content, and the opposite. In countries with a history of quality cheese production (France, Italy, etc), low quality milk is used for drinking and high quality for cheese production. In the US it's the opposite, hence the shitty quality of the cheese.

      The most insane experience I had there was when I bought small mozzarella balls to use as appetizer. Placed in the middle of a dinner table, after a few minutes, they started doing weird fizzing noises, to the point that all conversation stopped and we looked at them: they shriveled, spitting their water out and turned to grey raisins after 5 minutes. We threw them out.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    8. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Dear God, it's the US answer to Corsican cheese!

    9. Re: Coincidence I read about this last night by c6gunner · · Score: 0

      There's something worse: American "chocolate". I first thought the sample I tried is badly spoiled -- it tasted like vomit.

      There's something very wrong with you. I could see someone who had only ever tasted dark "chocolate" thinking that milk chocolate was a little strange (and vice versa), but if you honestly think it tastes like vomit there's something horribly wrong with your taste buds.

    10. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      There is also American milk with extra hormones to increase milk production in cows and well, those hormones do what ever those hormones do to you. I would also wonder how much water has been added to that milk to increase 'er' production. The bigger the corporation, the worse their produce seems to be the modern rule. https://news.harvard.edu/gazet... mmm tasty tasty milk or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... want some pus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... in your dairy product, yes no. Perhaps this is why consumption of milk has fallen, corporate tainting of the product reducing demand.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    11. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by coofercat · · Score: 1, Funny

      I think the pinnacle of American cheese is the stuff you spray onto things from a can. I literally couldn't believe this was a thing until I was given a can to try. I'm told it serves a need because Americans can't be arsed to cut cheese into slices, and so 'demanded' a spray to do all that hard work for them. It really didn't taste anything like any cheese I've ever eaten (not even that rubbery gunk you mentioned).

      If there's ever a way to completely bastardise a perfectly natural and (relatively) healthy product into something completely different (and probably infinitely more unhealthy), the American food industry will find it.

      Years later, I was at a baseball game with a french guy. He bought some sort of nacho snack thing that came in a a sort of plastic prison plate (I suppose if you're watching baseball, you're in a sort of voluntary prison?). It had a little section of a weirdly luminous darkish yellow stuff. He asked me what it was - such was its complete difference from what he'd ever seen as 'cheese', he didn't believe me when I told him it was cheese. I don't think he ate any more of it than the first 'dunk'.

    12. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Being able to legally call a product with no cocoa at all "chocolate" doesn't help, either.

      According to my understanding of US regulations, you actually can't actually call a product with no cocoa "chocolate". It'll be labeled "chocolate candy", "chocolate-flavored", "chocolatey", or something like that.

      There's a separate rule for "white chocolate", which contains cocoa butter instead.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    13. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Years later, I was at a baseball game with a french guy. [...] I don't think he ate any more of it than the first 'dunk'.

      He was probably just nervous about inviting a surrender-monkey comment...

    14. Re: Coincidence I read about this last night by TJHook3r · · Score: 1

      Tried Hershey's and Reese's and both have a kind of soapy taste to them. Can't say I noticed the vomit but soap was bad enough! It would make the Swiss cry to see what is named chocolate these days!

    15. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by b0bby · · Score: 1

      The explanation I read for the different taste is that way back when, Hershey and Nestle were both trying to get the cacao oil to bind with milk to make milk chocolate, which is actually apparently fairly tricky. Hershey managed to do it with high temperature, which resulted in a slightly burned taste; this is what US customers got used to. Nestle managed to use a lower temperature by using a vacuum chamber, and this avoided the burnt flavor.

      Why the US hasn't switched to the better flavor, though, I can't explain. I grew up in the US, and I always preferred the taste of chocolate in the UK and Europe.

    16. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by thepigwanker · · Score: 1

      I won't defend American cheesefood/"cheese-like" products against "true"/artisinal dairy cheeses because I'm not a monster, but I would like to point out that they fill different culinary roles. For example, Velveeta is great on a tuna melt because of its insanely low melting point so I prefer that over "real" cheese if I'm making it myself...but if I purchased a tuna melt in a restaurant and suspected they've used Velveeta, I would not be happy.

    17. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Whorhay · · Score: 2

      A lot of American Cheese Products, such as cheese wizz and those orange slices aren't made from cheese curds. Instead they are made from the whey, there are special powdering towers used to remove the water resulting in a whey powder that is used to make all that crap. It's actually kind of a genius solution to reduce waste from traditional cheese making, and produce more profit in the mean time. That said I don't like it much either.

    18. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, if you buy Kraft singles or some plastic crap like that. That's awful stuff but not truly representative. Forget the Supermarket, If you go to a good deli though, or get some brand like Blackbear, you can get some pretty delicious American cheeses.

      I prefer American cheese for sandwiches, but Swiss is good too, often a blend is best. Blue cheese is awesome on salads, crackers, or steak; cheddar is more of a snack cracker cheese to me, but the sharper the better. Mild is bland. Gruyere and Swiss are great in French Onion Soup. I love cheese to a fault, and usually get mozzarella sticks every Friday, nice to know there's no shortage coming. I don't know that I've ever met a cheese I didn't like, though IIRC Gouda is lower on the list.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    19. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know that everyone and their dog holds "world championship" competitions so they can label their foods the winners, right?

    20. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by BenFenner · · Score: 0

      American cheese is 50% extremely mild cheddar mixed with 50% colby, often dyed orange with beta-Carotene (carrot extract) with a simple emulsifier added to prevent the oils from separating out of the comparatively fatty cheddar portion. When done properly (sharper cheddar, no dyes) it can be a decent cheese for a few specific things, even if it is on the extremely mild side.

      There are of course much worse examples. If you're getting your American cheese individually wrapped in plastic (or from a fast food joint), you're getting the worst food the FDA will acceptably allow them to call "cheese" (instead of "cheese food") which is filled with preservatives, loaded with all of the emulsifiers, yoga mats, and who knows what else.

      I'm not saying you'll like American cheese if you try even the high quality stuff, or that it's good for more than one or two uses, just that those of us in America who like cheese also feel your pain. And I wanted to explain what it actually is, since "American cheese" doesn't immediately provide any information to a cheese-lover.

    21. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Plus, american cheese works well for specific tasks: Grilled cheese sandwiches, on a burger etc.
      You're not spreading it on a nice salad, for example.

      And yes, I know, you can use other types of cheese for these purposes too...

    22. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      I have bought a LOT of fresh mozzarella in my life, and have never had them fizzle and shrivel.

    23. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      why would you consider that the pinnacle of cheese? The word you're looking for is "worst".

    24. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you lived, but everywhere I've lived every decent sized supermarket had a good selection of awesome local cheeses. My local places all generally stock cheddar aged anywhere between one year and a decade, cave aged blue cheese, funky barnyard smelling stuff, gooey soft cheeses, etc.

      You can definitely find the fake stuff most places, since I guess there's some demand for it. But by and large, I've never lived in a place that hurt for good cheese. We get some nice European imports to compare against, so I can tell we're not doing too badly.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    25. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Rolgar · · Score: 1

      But Monterrey Jack and Muenster (Aldi, $2/half pound) cheeses have pretty good flavor. To bad you can get them in a sandwich shop.

      This is how foodies became a thing. Plenty of Americans have grown up eating flavorless or sugary cereal, mac & cheese from a box, processed peanut butter and American cheese, hot dogs, bologna, pizza with bad cheese, and too much bread and don't like anything with good flavor. We have struggled to get 3 of our children to like delicious food, and it's not like we aren't trying.

      Perhaps we should do like my Mom's family who was pretty poor, and had to eat as inexpensively as possible. My Mom will eat anything reasonably edible because she had no choice when it was eat the inexpensive stuff with flavor you hate or go hungry. Hunger is the best appetizer.

    26. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      you actually can't actually call a product with no cocoa "chocolate". It'll be labeled "chocolate candy", "chocolate-flavored", "chocolatey", or something like that.
      So can call it chocolate ... are you retarded?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    27. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      That is nonsense.
      Milk from the cow is always same quality, unless you have special food to make it more fat or you have cows that starve and lack fat.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    28. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      We call it a "health food store."

      That is where the real food is kept.

      Including full-flavor cheeses, both domestic and import.

      Some supermarkets do sell strong cheese, but it will be in separate section of expensive yuppie food.

    29. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If you think American Cheese is good in a grilled cheese, go to Trader Joes and buy some Cotswald. Don't mind the price per pound, just buy it one time and see what I mean.

      You'll probably fall off your chair crying once you realize how good a grilled cheese is supposed to taste.

    30. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      American Cheese is a style of cheese. It is mostly made from vegetable oil; it isn't really real cheese. They're allowed to call it 100% cheese if they have some minimum percentage of milk.

      There is no style of product called American Chocolate. American chocolate is just chocolate made in America.

      Anybody who bakes with chocolate buys "baking chocolate," which is 100% pure chocolate. It tastes different depending on the grade of cacao used, but not based on where it is made. And if you use this and eat it frequently, you do know what chocolate tastes like.

      The local stores have chocolate bars from 35% to 85% chocolate. A 65% chocolate bar made in Portland tastes the same as a 65% one made in Amsterdam.

      The stuff you're eating isn't chocolate. It is "chocolate flavored."

    31. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If this sounds [pejorative] to you, it just means you're a [pejorative].

      All labeling is this way; if you think the ingredients list is written in the Common Tongue, it means you have no idea what you're shoveling into your face.

      Learn to speak Food Label English. Every phrase is technical jargon. Only a small subset of that jargon refers to natural ingredients, the rest refer instead to standards of similarity. The words "chocolate candy" do not contain the phrase "chocolate." That's because they're jargon, and "chocolate candy" is a single identifier, not a compound phrase made from two identifiers, as you apparently thought.

    32. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      More likely, we always had good chocolate, it just isn't what mommy bought you. She bought you the Hershey's or the Nestle.

    33. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Good luck finding milk with added hormones in the US!

      Every brand in the store, including the cheapest generic brands, have that stupid government label advising that milk without hormones is the same as milk with hormones; right after the label saying that this milk doesn't have added hormones. This has been true for 10+ years on the west coast.

    34. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It is a toy.

      Selling it as a food means they don't have to do product safety testing, they just have to use GRAS ingredients.

      Children spray it at each other. It is a festive accessory. And it is presumably safer to make a mess with than things not "edible."

      That's also why it comes in such bright non-food colors.

    35. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That's just... really not true. At all.

    36. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      To bad with you! You can get them in the sandwich shop.

    37. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Hey, I live half in Europe and half in Asia.
      I have not to cope with that jargon.

      Either there is chocolate in it or not. If there is, it is on the label.
      Either there is chocolate on the label or not. If it is on the label, it is inside with the given percentage ... give or take.

      Good luck in your third world country.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    38. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Absolutely not. Between hormone treatments (widely practised in the US), added water (illegal, but commonly done), and the type of food (fresh spring grass is not the same as dry corn by-products feed), the milk can indeed be very different, and it is indeed paid differently to the producer depending on its density, quality, etc...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    39. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by dargaud · · Score: 1

      I'm glad to know you are italian and not american !

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    40. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Odd that this would come up on Slashdot the next day.

      No, we're just tracking you. Through cookies. What goes great with cookies? Milk. What's the next best thing to milk? Cheese. Get it?

    41. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jack cheese is named after Monterey, CA (one 'r'), not Monterrey in Mexico

    42. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by static0verdrive · · Score: 1

      Wow sorry that's incorrect. Look into Monsanto Puss-Milk, rBGH (and/or why Canada rejected it outright for Canadian cows) and what happened when whistle-blowers in the US tried to bring findings forward into public view, etc.

      --
      ========
      77 77 77 2e 6d 65 6c 76 69 6e 73 2e 63 6f 6d
    43. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know what Costwald is, in France we have raclette. It's not in sandwich either, we melt it in some kind of electric grid on the table and eat it with boiled potatoes and random slices of ham, salami, salted meat etc., maybe a few pickles or something. It's fun to smash the boiled potato with the fork and pour the melted cheese on it. Invariably eaten with friends and/or family.

      Morbier is a fun similar enough cheese.

      By searching, I found it's Costwold and thus this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloucester_cheese
      I would be curious to eat a grilled cheese sandwich, thus (don't really know what bread it should be). Just this is not cheese sold in supermarkets here and cheese stores are busy with everything French first, Italian second already. Cheese mainly meant to be melted is a small subset I may say.

      I believe the "burger slices" sold are cheddar but don't quote me on this, made we don't know what it is and we think all in the toilet paper square format is cheddar. So one may have the misconception that US and Brits only eat cheddar, only have cheddar and nothing else exists (like us frogs only eat snails and frogs with some fine wine in wine glasses, and baguettes)

    44. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know why a restaurant is called a restaurant? It's because it's a place where you "restore" yourself. Yes, even the McDonalds I guess in theory (that big mac or cheeseburger does have nutrients in it. If I were severely malnourished and had trouble digesting food due to my weakness I'd go for it)

      Thus having "health foods" and other "foods" is rather absurd! If real food is in the "health food" store I wonder what is in the "non health" one. Well, in France you can readily find some bottom of the barrel stuff if you want it, but it's rarely in a special "crap" section (and with different, perhaps somewhat hypocritical standards. Processed cheese exists but sold in ready made stuff, not on its own)

    45. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Real food, like wormy walnuts. No thanks, I prefer food with all the animals dead.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    46. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      If you think American Cheese is good in a grilled cheese, go to Trader Joes and buy some Cotswald. Don't mind the price per pound, just buy it one time and see what I mean.

      You'll probably fall off your chair crying once you realize how good a grilled cheese is supposed to taste.

      The American brick cheese in the grocery store isn't bad, it's the processed "cheese" which is horrible. Buy yeah, it has to be brick cheese, not the pre-sliced or spray from a can stuff.

    47. Re:Coincidence I read about this last night by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Turns out, US manufacturers intentionally add butyric acid (which is a good part of what makes vomit smell) because it was what "consumers demand".

      This is an argument against Direct Democracy. The average person is a weak-willed mouse who just wants to survive another day. Personal preferences, hell, ANYTHING about them is largely unimportant because they feel largely unimportant. They go with what they know and take no risks. If the cheese/chocolate they ate when they were little tasted like shit, that is what they expect it to taste like when they buy it for themselves. No changes allowed.

      There are enough of this type of person to cause TVs to only be Smart TVs, chocolate to have butyric acid added, Microsoft to feel confident in using the general public as alpha and beta testers, Democrats in believing that "Russians influenced the elections!" will get people to vote for Democrats in the next election, etc.

      Some of the aspects of this world are utterly gross... but then, making sausage is gross too. Meh.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  40. EXPORT IT by TFlan91 · · Score: 1

    Living overseas, I cannot find American Cheese or a decent Cheddar ANYWHERE!

    Send all that Land o Lakes American and Cabot Cheddar Cheese overseas! I need to show these locals how Americans get fat (and what good, stick-to-your-ribs mac-n-cheese is)!

    1. Re:EXPORT IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're disgusting

    2. Re:EXPORT IT by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Living overseas, I cannot find American Cheese or a decent Cheddar ANYWHERE!

      Odd because you can't find decent Cheddar anywhere in America.

      But yes you can't find the much derided, much loved American cheese abroad either. A burrito with flavouful cheese in just tastes of cheese. You need Ameican cheese to get the right texture and feel.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:EXPORT IT by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      American cheese isn't really "a" cheese, it's multiple cheese mixed together. Some stories I've read suggest it literally started out as left overs from cheese mass production that were swept into a pot and melted together, but the more common origin story has Kraft actually trying to produce something with this taste and texture as an end product to a mass production process. Either way you would only find it economical to produce in countries that mass produce cheeses broadly similar to those in America, mostly mild cheddar and swiss.

      To give an example of a country I'm familiar with: While Britain produces a lot of cheddar, that's really the only cheese it produces in massive quantities that America does too, others like Red Leicester, Double Gloucester, et al, don't really have tastes resembling common American mass produced cheeses. Additionally until relatively recently in British cheesemaking history you wouldn't have seen a sizable number of multiple cheeses "manufactured" in the same "factory", so there wouldn't have been a similar composition of left overs, unlike America where Kraft and Land O'Lakes produce broadly similar stuff.

      OK, but what about the market American cheese servers? Well, even then it's not as if American cheese is "necessary": if you need a bland cheese without a strong taste which goes with everything, most countries have it already. At the very least, Holland's Edam cheese is popular throughout Europe.

      So while it's supremely economical to make American cheese in America, even an "equivalent" that tastes different but exists for broadly the same reason wouldn't really take off in many markets in the old world. It'd be difficult to standardize due to historic reasons, and wouldn't fill a market niche like American does.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  41. Re:Cheesus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cheese and Rice that's a bad pun.

  42. Why is the price so high? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there is so much cheese why has the price not gone down? You want me to buy crappy American cheese than give it to me at Chinese cheese prices!

  43. Send it to the West Wing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's time for another Big Block of Cheese Day! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm9HZq53rqU

  44. Re:??? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    There's a reason why most countries regulate the dairy market.

    What reason is that?

    How come the countries that do NOT subsidize dairy have not seen the sky collapse?

  45. Re:??? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    If it were totally 100% left up to the free market, the REAL situation we'd have with food supplies is that they'd wildly thrash back and forth between abundance and scarcity.

    Most countries don't subsidize dairy, and many don't subsidize farms or food at all. Please provide some examples of the "thrashing" that occurs in these countries.

  46. 1 purpose for American cheese by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    grilled cheese sandwiches. I've never found another cheese that comes close for overall perfection of that specific food. Real butter, almost any sort of bread works.

    American cheese sucks for pretty much everything else.

    1. Re:1 purpose for American cheese by rl117 · · Score: 1

      Have you never tried it with some slices of extra mature cheddar? It melts under the grill just as well as processed cheese and tastes so much better. Shame I became so lactose intolerant I can't have even a small bit of the stuff.

  47. We have a cheese fridge and it stinks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine a fridge with 900,000 cubic yards of cheese, imagine the stink!

    Hang on, just had an idea, roll it down to the border and make a wall out of it. The stench will stop all those nasty Mexicans from even thinking of coming into your marvelous utopia!

  48. Wow, I can't even... by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    It's a surplus of cheese made in America, not a surplus of "American" Cheese....

    And you can largely thank our government for having a consistent food supply. The government heavily regulates what's grown and how it's grown via those subsidies. Before that we had over farming and farmers growing too much of the same, profitable crops until they market saturated and collapsed....

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Wow, I can't even... by msauve · · Score: 1

      Whoosh. It's subsidized. They make the cheapest cheese they can to get the subsidy, without regard to taste or quality. Eat it.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:Wow, I can't even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Citation needed.

    3. Re: Wow, I can't even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever been to the USA? The cheese commonly available there is absolute rubbish.

    4. Re:Wow, I can't even... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The farms producing milk are subsidized.. not the cheese makers.

    5. Re:Wow, I can't even... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      /. should bite the bullet and have a like button and not only moderating.

      (Y)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:Wow, I can't even... by jrumney · · Score: 1

      The government heavily regulates what's grown and how it's grown via those subsidies. Before that we had over farming and farmers growing too much of the same, profitable crops until they market saturated and collapsed....

      You didn't notice the irony as you typed that?

      The truth is that subsidies are what distort the market to encourage over-production of certain crops, or in this case dairy products, while a truly free market would see farmers seeking other opportunities to make profit.

  49. Re:??? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    The only country I know of with deregulated milk is Austrailia, and they have experienced a great amount of instability with waves of dairy farmers quitting the industry.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  50. who moved my cheese? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The book those cheese farmers better read

  51. Re:??? by Harvey+Manfrenjenson · · Score: 2

    Do you REALLY want to live in a world where food becomes genuinely seasonal and regional again, and you have to plan "what do I feel like eating tonight" around "what does the store actually have available to PURCHASE this week?"

    Yes.

  52. I for one can't wait for the "more refined options by melted · · Score: 2

    I for one can't wait for the "more refined options". There have been some good domestic cheeses appearing. There's no reason Wisconsin couldn't produce cheeses that are easily on par with the famous French varieties for half the price. I'm looking forward to $6/lb Wisconsin "Epoisses". :-)

  53. Let's make this story into News For Nerds by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Imagine how many gigabags of Doritos this much cheese could be made into!

    1. Re:Let's make this story into News For Nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine a Beowulf cluster made of American cheese!

  54. You are what you eat by Snufu · · Score: 1

    Cheese is a kind of meat.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  55. burger sauce by schematix · · Score: 1

    Nothing beats gooey melty AMERICAN cheese on a burger. No other cheese turns into such a perfect melty sauce like the processed stuff.

    --
    Scott
    1. Re:burger sauce by omnichad · · Score: 1

      You tell me that a mornay sauce made with cheddar and beer doesn't beat that.

    2. Re:burger sauce by schematix · · Score: 1

      it's 100% a texture thing. melty saucy goodness. lots of cheeses have more flavor but for pure moist saucy satisfaction you need the processed stuff in this application.

      --
      Scott
    3. Re:burger sauce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No cheese turns into a melty sauce as readily as plastic American non-cheese gunk, it's 90% of the way there already. It adds no flavour, just a layer of fat and mouth feel. If you want to add flavour as well, you use literally any other cheese, from cheddar and swiss onwards. It takes more effort, which may place it beyond the reach of Americans.

    4. Re:burger sauce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What will happen when Americans discover aligot?

      The cheese used is very simple, fresh unaged and unsalted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomme , in this case Tome d'Aubrac (Laguiole is a subset, though it also tends to refer to the finished cheese which is not what is used there)

      4 min video (wtf, they left garlic out but vid is good enough)
      https://invidio.us/watch?v=VfDL7mi1XA0
      This shows it being made. I highly recommend to check this out!
      The old fashioned way seems the simplest - an open chimney fire is not required, people cook this on a gas burner but do the same otherwise.

  56. I'm Guessing That... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The genesis of this policy was during WWII (or maybe even WWI?)... As one poster noted, it takes time to ramp up (or down) ANY farming production. When you lived (live?) in a world so close to global conflict, ACTUALLY involving soldiers and their support teams, you have to be able to feed them. The idea of keeping a lot of food stockpiled doesn't seem crazy in that context.

    Not saying that it's still applicable, but I'm not saying it's not either.

    1. Re:I'm Guessing That... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      It's just a buffer/capacitor for food supply and food prices.

  57. Send it to New Zealand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The local stuff is so expensive no one can afford it!

  58. Build trumps wall with it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    kill two birds with one stone as it where... (yea its a horrible saying)

  59. The Strategic Cheese Reserve! by bonedonut · · Score: 1

    Keeping americans cheesed up during the lean times ahead.

  60. Omelette du fromage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Omelette du fromage!

  61. MAGA by SimonInOz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Clearly, we need to make America Grate again.

    --
    "Cats like plain crisps"
    1. Re:MAGA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that's Trump's foreign policy objective.

  62. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America's per-capita milk consumption is inversely related to its average IQ, and for the same demographic reasons.

  63. Re:??? by djinn6 · · Score: 1

    If it were totally 100% left up to the free market, the REAL situation we'd have with food supplies is that they'd wildly thrash back and forth between abundance and scarcity.

    No they won't. Any smart farmer or investor will see it happening once or twice and buy up farms that are going out of business. When supply falls far enough, they'll restart production and be the first to make a huge profit. If they're a food distributor, they'll be buying a lot of freezers to store food when it's cheap, selling it when it gets expensive.

    This happens so often that people invented the entire futures market to deal with this problem before it even occurs.

  64. Trump can have his wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just make it out of the excess cheese!

  65. Yeah, simple. Keep subsidizing it. by dfenstrate · · Score: 1

    Your sig is rather on topic in this case, though rather wrong. (Celine's first law? She should stick to singing.) We have an ample food supply in the US and won't starve in the case of embargo or war. It is, in fact, national security. Quite frankly I'd rather 'waste' tax money to stabilize food prices and ensure US food production capacity over most other spending. Fortunately, the cost is not so great on the national scale of things - $20 billion dollars per year. Worth it.

    Yes, I'd rather not put ethanol in my gas tank. It degrades my gas mileage.

    --
    Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    1. Re:Yeah, simple. Keep subsidizing it. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'd rather not put ethanol in my gas tank. It degrades my gas mileage.
      No it does not.

      With ZERO gas you run as far as the ethanol lets you go ... dumb ass.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  66. Stupidity by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 0

    This is yet another case of the failures of modern capitalism.

    We constantly talk about food shortages and how there's not enough food to cover the world. The fact is that there is no food shortage, there is a logistics issue.

    Instead of mass industrialization of the planet's farming resources, we instead over produce the hell out of one thing hoping to make a quick buck but discount that everyone else is doing the same thing. American capitalism does this to far too many industries. Fracking for example... yes... a new source of fuel is probably good, but overproducing excessively in order to make a buck before the market goes sour isn't. Dairy seemed like a good idea, so everyone did it and now there too much of it. The market correction will be a mess. We will literally slaughter massive numbers of animals just to adjust to poor planning. What will we do with the dead cows? Just compost?

    When Amazon finally takes on logistics for meat and dairy, what will the impact be?

    So, instead of shipping massive amounts of meat to massive amounts of stores which is put on display and later thrown away because every store needed at least a few packages of this or that, what happens when meat is butchered and processed to order through a website and it's more effective than going to a local store. Consider that a grocery store throws away about 1/3rd or more of all their perishables. Now, Amazon can charge the same price but reduce their logistics cost and their losses due to waste by 1/3rd. They'll collapse the markets. Add to this other perishables. So if Amazon is throttling production of meats, dairy products and even produce based on real-time data, they can probably increase efficiency by 50% or more. What then?

    I am no lover of Amazon, but the benefits of a single overlord corporation in the 21st century looks more and more attractive. If it's Amazon or whoever else.. who cares, just make it work.

  67. Just give it to hungry people by BeCre8iv · · Score: 1

    And dont preach market forces at me when US farms are subsedisd. We do that in the EU and... Glut happens.

    --
    This perpetual motion machine Lisa made is a joke, it just keeps getting faster and faster. - Homer
  68. Simple solution by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

    Time for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to do an "EAT MORE PIZZA" public service announcement. I'm off to collect my Nobel for economics.

  69. The obsession with health foods by guacamole · · Score: 1

    Before about 14 years old I probably drunk more milk than water because milk was delicious and inexpensive. Then the public media campaign about eating healthy, counting calories and fats began. And that must have hit everyone's milk consumption badly. I mean, one cup of 2% milk, that's 8 ounces, contains over one hundred calories, some fat and even cholesterol. And I can't get buy with only 8ounces of fluid when eating a meal. So eventually I switched to diet soda, and then lemonade, unsweet iced tea and such, even though deep down I know that fresh milk is more delicious.

    1. Re:The obsession with health foods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we started with 2%, then 1%, then skim when I got married. Nowadays there's a company that sells lactose-free whole milk that has significantly less sugar than skim, so guess what goes in the glass at breakfast to go along with my eggs?

  70. Re:Make America Grate Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    awesome!

  71. High quality baby formula... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    High quality baby formula is selling for ridiculous prices in certain Asian countries - there's a known problem of people buying up all the baby formula in shops to send overseas and reap a good (ie: 100+%) profit.
    Use your surplus milk on formula instead of low quality/cost cheese and pull back some of your trade deficit.

    1. Re:High quality baby formula... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also illegal to export baby formula from the United States. In fact, nursing mothers have to get a waiver from the State Department if they want to take baby formula out of the country to go on vacation. They have to declare how many days they will be gone and only take enough formula for that many days plus one.

  72. Re:The cheesiest by Barsteward · · Score: 3, Funny

    they could process it into house style bricks, leave it outside for a few months to go stale and hard and then Trump can use them to build his wall. might attract all the "rats" he complains about too...

    --
    "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  73. Interesting fact..... by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

    That's about 688,331 cubic meters, or...

    11,628,410,000 Imperial Teaspoons

  74. Mexican wall.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't Donald build his Mexican frontier with this cheese? It's not proper cheese so will resist everything. It resists digestion already, so they can't eat their way through..

  75. Retarded dairy farmer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can get much more than 15.00 per hundred pounds of steak.

  76. Re:I for one can't wait for the "more refined opti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    One reason is that you can't ship any kind of raw milk cheese across state borders in the US unless the cheese has aged for at least 60 days. This eliminates a large number of very delicious cheeses that can't survive for 60 days, such as authentic Camembert, Roquefort, and Brie. (Or whatever they'd be called when made by Americans.) Plus, most milk that's pasteurized in the US is done via ultra-high temperature pasteurization, which ruins quite a bit of the milk's flavor. UHT is a lot cheaper to do than slower, lower temperature pasteurization. Both things serve to radically reduce the quality of American cheese, even if it's not American cheese.

  77. Re:??? by bobbied · · Score: 1

    You're talking like the free market system has a hope in hell of working with dairy in an efficient way. There's a reason why most countries regulate the dairy market.

    Woosh!

    No, I'm saying government intervention has messed things up in the free market system and THAT'S why it's not working efficiently.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  78. A tip for you: add stilton by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Add a little bit of stilton to the top of the cheese and grill the result. Stilton is fattier and softer and really pings, so you don't need much, either a few separated lumps or very thin slices scattered around, depending on taste and thickness of cheese.

    Also you can add dried herbs to the top instead of stilton, just grill it slightly slower so that the dried herbs get moist.

  79. LOL .. only cheese in the US ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But Americans are turning their noses up at those processed cheese slices and string cheese -- varieties that are a main driver of the U.S. cheese market -- in favor of more refined options

    What many Americans think is cheese could not legally be sold as cheese in many parts of the world, because it's not actually cheese.

    We were in Florida a few years ago, and we bought those "American" cheese slices at Wal Mart (for my father in law, because he eats like a child) ... I kid you not, the package said something like "artificial simulated cheese slices" or something like that.

    I was like, wait, what ... it's fake fake cheese?

    Whatever the hell it was, it was pretty far removed from what I'd call cheese, just some kind of polymerized oil. It may not have even had the word "cheese" on the packaging anywhere.

    Pretty gross stuff.

  80. This is a good thing! by sabbede · · Score: 1

    A lot of that surplus is Cheddar. What's happening right now? That's right, it's aging! Aged cheddar is better, therefore this is just an opportunity in disguise.

  81. Your government runs capitalism. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what the fuck is the difference between "government" and "Capitalism"????

    NONE. No fucking difference.This is the fault of capitalism. Capitalism demanded that the government subsidies this and capitalism demanded that farmers over produce to get the best payments for their labour.

  82. Wonder if we can finally get rid of milk price controls, since leftists hate rural people now.

  83. What's that in Camember-Furlongs ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Empire stopped using Imperial units years ago.
    It's time the colonies did likewise.

  84. I eat american cheese by Shaitan · · Score: 1

    But only from the deli. A lot of people don't even seem to know there is decent american cheese and think that kraft crap and clones are the only option.

  85. Re:Wow, I can't even... Obligitory Office Quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eat it.

    That's what she said.

  86. I don't want to eat GMO cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make sure you make quality product without pesticides and rBGH, don't give cows corn and then we will talk but knowing how shit is run in the USSA this will not happen.

  87. Keto diets require milk or similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, OK, calcium anyway.

    If you do the high-protein, near-zero-carb weight loss routine without massively increasing your calcium intake, your bones get brittle... thus, the snapping of the bones in my feet when I jumped over a small wall... (yeah, actual voice of experience talking here - someone who has never done the experiment will now post to tell me I'm wrong because their Dunning-Kruger and college degree says it isn't so; THIS IS THE INTERNET!)

    Drink at least a pint of milk a day - I have a pint at lunch - and as long as you're not lactose intolerant or allergic, all will be well. And you can help your neighbors and fight the rise of antibiotic resistant bacteria, if that matters to you, by buying organic milk locally.

    Source: Over 15 years systematic experimentation with high-protein, low carb diets, including weight loss, weight maintenance and athletic performance dieting. Failures: several broken bones and clinically confirmed bone mass reduction. Successes: Over 30 lb weight loss maintained for ten years and bone degradation reversed through consumption of dairy products.

    1. Re:Keto diets require milk or similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't help but think adults will like it better if the milk is fermented in some way, unless you never stopped drinking milk your whole life.
      but your input is really interesting and important to me, though I'm not really the kind to do low carb up to keto. I had read about excess of calcium, to the contrary.

      I do like eggs with grated cheese, as an example of something which I can easily afford, but you'll get my pasta and bread and pizza over my dead body, fine in my case though, wish me good luck in getting in shape (just a bit of muscle mass, general health to get back).

  88. Give Some Cheese to Poor People by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    We have people going hungry right here.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  89. Re:??? by fropenn · · Score: 1

    Try living in a region where essentially no fruit is grown, the only major local vegetable is the potato, and the only local nut (aside from the politicians) is the sunflower seed. You'll soon be thankful for the ability to ship an orange a few thousand miles cheaply.

    It is the peak of irony to me that the same people who insist on local, seasonal food have no qualms purchasing their underwear from India, their televisions and phones from China, and their vehicles from Japan and Mexico.

    The argument that, historically, people only ate what was available locally to them so we should try to replicate that model for all time holds no weight with me because:
    1. Historically people didn't have access to cheap shipping of food, so they were forced to eat locally (not by choice or for health reasons), and
    2. Maybe people shouldn't live outside the tropical zone where fresh fruit and vegetables grow all year long if that is truly the best diet.

  90. Re:Nutjob triggered. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    beep boop.

  91. Re:??? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Double woosh. I'm saying you're wrong. Australia tried that and it is so chaotic to be in that business, farmers left the industry in droves. The key is the right kind of regulation. How about getting rid of the dumb idea that that the government subsidizes for products it doesn't need for one thing.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  92. Re:Nutjob triggered. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and someone falls, hook, line and sinker....
    however, your use of the pejorative "cracker" indicates a couple if interesting things...

  93. Um... It's only a 45 day supply. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the math in the article, it only works out to be a 45 day supply.

    1.4B pounts of cheese is 4.6 pounds per capita.

    Americans average 37 pounds of cheese per capita per year.

    (4.6/37)*365 = about a 45 day supply.

    This should not be news.

  94. what is the European equivalent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of American cheese? I recall seeing Emmental served all over France. I know itâ(TM)s supposed to be âSwissâ(TM) but it was pretty horrific nonetheless

    1. Re:what is the European equivalent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Emmental is the bottom feeder cheese, is made in industrial quantities in neighboring French areas. It rules the pre-grated cheese market for instance. Grated cheese is thrown mindlessly into pasta, or used for other things (with an egg and ham in a crepe, in and on top of something that goes into the oven).
      On its own, sold in 200 gr blocks to the public, it's unremarkable and some of the cheapest cheese around but 100% cheese. You'll find it in sandwiches often with ham, as a serving in school lunches and the like (eat after the dish, before dessert) and it's a cromulent cheese for a pizza. Pizzas either have emmental, mozarella or both.

  95. Unit... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > "The glut, which at 900,000 cubic yards is the largest in U.S. history, means that there is enough cheese sitting in cold storage to wrap around the U.S. Capitol,"

    Ah, there it is. I was wondering what unit of measure they were going to use this time around, since clearly "Libraries of Congress" doesn't apply here.

    But how many Olympic pools could you fill with that cheese?

  96. There's finally enough cheese! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To jam up the President's butt and maybe it'll stop spouting things on Twitter.

  97. Re:??? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    The only countries that don't subsidize food production are desert countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar Kuwait ...idiot.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  98. How do I score some of this cheese? by kimgkimg · · Score: 1

    Wallace: "Yes, cheese please!"

  99. Re:??? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    You whooshed yourself again?!?!

    Do you fucking ever notice that other people contradicted you? Did you know it is possible for them to understand, and still say something different?

    You don't have to announce it to the whole world that completely lack "theory of mind" whenever you're confused. You look like a real dumbass waving your hand around like that and making noises.

  100. Re:??? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    https://www.reuters.com/articl...

    https://www.arabianbusiness.co...

    https://www.albawaba.com/busin...

    Qatar also has food subsidies, but they're decreasing them to spend the money getting ready for the World Cup in 2022. But they import 40% of their food from Saudi Arabia, so see above.

  101. Re:??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vegetables are known to grow in winter like onion, cabbage and whatever.
    It doesn't hurt too much to eat vegetable and fruit seasonally although you can spend years/decade without realizing what the seasons are. I'm in Western Europe so when you eventually pay attention you can see there's a huge supply of peach and melon in summer, while oversupply of onion is at a different time of the year, etc.
    Pumpkins would be when there's that huge festival in the US where people carve them into lanterns.
    You can still cheat by having tomato year round, cereals are available year round anyway, I think hen live at any time of the year and thus eggs are year round.

    I don't think food has to be really local, at least for a large bunch of it. Ironically, huge trucks have a much higher energy efficiency than a half full panel van.
    Some seasonality doesn't hurt for fruit and vegetables, though it's hurt by stunted popular food culture. Popular culture is supposed to contain old wildly known soups, recipes and dishes (for example, whatever one that will use up cherries)

  102. Re:??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's this problem with dairy in France because of the European Union pushing for totalitarian market ideology.
    Farmers are indebted and live on half the minimum wage, so they're not buying anything. They go out of business. Those who benefit are megafarms/corporations and the investors and distributors as you sum up. But even then it's hard to believe that this shit is that beneficial, such disorder has costs. Quality goes down, as well. If the end game is factory farms and cheese factories, we lost our cheese and it's not worth it at all. Don't want to replace ALL my cheese with white (or pale yellow) featureless sterilized blobs.
    Silly effect when milk price goes way down : smaller producers sell under costs, have to hope they stay afloat till next year and are forced to rely on subsidies and debt for survival. Mega producers may increase production such that they continue to make some money even at very low margins. Distributors i.e. supermarkets oligopoly stabilize consumer prices i.e. retail prices don't go down and they accaparate the now huge margin for themselves.

    So, it "works". I don't have to be happy or wish for it to "work" that way. Fuck the EU and bring back milk quotas then it works too.

  103. One oft-ignored reason: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Food stamps, as originally created, was a way to simultaneously solve two problems with one government program (most politicians nowadays have no interest in such efficiencies). Food stamps would food the truly needy AND smooth-out the ups and downs of farming, by giving the poor "stamps" that could be exchanged at the store for healthy farm-grown foods (meat, veggies, flour, dairy (including cheese of course)). This all changed when more recent left-leaning politicians wanted to remove any stigma from people on such benefits and they redesigned the food stamp program to instead provide a card that looked and acted like a credit card.

    Now, people who depend on their neighbors to feed them via taxation and government handouts are able to buy prepared foods and so they often buy things that do not directly benefit the nation's farmers. People buying pre-made pizzas and other foods are just as likely to be getting ingredients from Mexico or Canada or Brazil as from within the USA, so there is a higher liklihood that surpluses of various farm products in the USA will not be addressed as well by the food stamp program.

  104. What says MAGA better than... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    plentiful low-cost Pizza!

    Try to find the best side of at least one thing every day, and you'll live a happier life and your friends and family will be sublty affected for the better too - no matter who is in any elected office. It works if you're a right-winger and Obama is in office, or if you're a left-winger and Trump is there.

  105. Yikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only people that can stand American Cheese are those born in US. The rest of the world despises any American made cheese.
      Not to mention cheddar, the thing that is not a cheese.

    Yikes!

  106. I Find It Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I completely reject the label of "American Cheese". It's like taking a mongrel dog and insisting that this is now a breed, the "American Mongrel". There's no such thing as "American Cheese", it's a pastiche, an amalgam, a cheese porphyry.

    I'm pretty sure that cheese makers and fast food outlets think they can pull a fast one. "American Cheese, it's the only authentically patriotic cheese, because it has the word American in it!" And all this for what is actually a boring, bland, 100% generic cheese. It has no aging, little flavor, no character, and a smell that could possibly be described as 'inoffensive'.

    "American Cheese, you're going to remember only that it was inoffensive!"