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Proposed Bill Would Force Arizonians To Pay $250 To Have Their DNA Added To a Database (gizmodo.com)
technology_dude writes: One by one, thresholds are being crossed where the collection and storage of personal data is accepted as routine. Being recorded by cameras at business locations, in public transportation, in schools, churches, and every other place imaginable. Recent headlines include "Singapore Airlines having cameras built into the seat back of personal entertainment systems," and "Arizona considering a bill to force some public workers to give up DNA samples (and even pay for it)." It seems to be a daily occurrence where we have crossed another line in how far we will go to accept massive surveillance as normal. Do we even have a line the sand that we would defend? Do we even see anything wrong with it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely and we continue to give knowledge of our personal lives (power) to others. If we continue down the same path, I suppose we deserve what we get? I want to shout "Stop the train, I want off!" but I fear my plea would be ignored. So who out there is more optimistic than I and can recommend some reading that will give me hope? Bill 1475 was introduced by Republican State Senator David Livingston and would require teachers, police officers, child day care workers, and many others to submit their DNA samples along with fingerprints to be stored in a database maintained by the Department of Public Safety. "While the database would be prohibited from storing criminal or medical records alongside the DNA samples, it would require the samples be accompanied by the person's name, Social Security number, date of birth and last known address," reports Gizmodo. "The living will be required to pay [a $250 processing fee] for this invasion of their privacy, but any dead body that comes through a county medical examiner's office would also be fair game to be entered into the database."
This bill isn't going to fly.
. . . they'll have to get it the old fashioned way.
They can kiss my hairy ass, and swab their lips afterwards.
We have a positive match of your DNA to a murder crime scene from 1910. This was before you were born, but it could have been an accident with a contraceptive in a time machine.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
The al-Qaeda sleeper cells could wake up and terrorize us at any time. Seig heil the fatherland! Er, um, I mean salute the homeland! Or sumptin' like dat.
DIAF. HTH. HAND.
Bill 1475 was introduced by Republican State Senator David Livingston
I presumed it'd be a Republican to do this.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
Fire them? If entire staff at schools, police departments, etc. refuse to take the test and pay it won't turn out well if they try to fire them. Between lawsuits, union fights and politicians trying to explain why school is canceled and the police/fire are not answering calls things will get sorted out quickly. My guess the bill dies quietly in committee...
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
It seems the more and more the meaning of the word "Freedom" and "Land of the Free" is becoming more and more watered down.
And I'm not sure I'm surprised, to be honest. It seems that the USA, for everything that it does have, has forgotten about its people.
There are many countries in the world where this sort of thing just wouldn't happen. Some have laws to protect their citizens (Europe being one -- no was would the GDPR allow this to happen, for example), and some just wouldn't have it within their culture.
I do fear for the USA sometimes. Things are constantly happening there are making it one of the least free countries in the world. It's a trend that I don't see stopping. You might have missed the deadline of 1984, but I fear that's where you are all heading.
And it's a bit scary looking at it from here.
paying to have our digits co-opted? the motives are...? will all us lab rats please raise our mice in support for our hijacked family juices' return? cease fire stand down,, we socialize better without WMDs around.. thanks again
It's always Republicans that want bigger government. It's not about taxes, Libertarians, it's about power.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Gee, I wonder where the taxes really end up.
> "While the database would be prohibited from storing criminal or medical records alongside the DNA samples, it would require the samples be accompanied by the person's name, Social Security number, date of birth and last known address"
Yeah, totally separate so totally safe to contribute to. We're not going to crosscheck with any other database when we feel like it, matching on common fields, honest. We also won't update the other databases with this data either, pinky swear.
One for the GFY pile, particularly when people are to be charged for it.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
As you say, it's about power.
It's not even about personal power but about sustaining a(n increasingly defunct) narrative that is nearly identical for both parties.
Not sure what people think is funny about Republicans and their police state.
Personally, I would have modded you +5, Insightful.
I don't think most of the commenters actually read the post. Technology_dude was asking for reading recommendations to make him feel better. I can't suggest anything real. Whenever I read things that make me feel better, like new stuff the FSF is doing, it's always tinged by how frequently it's not enough or doesn't spread. For fiction, tho, I read Punch Escrow recently and found it's vision of our future to be uplifting. It's not a utopia, but it may very well be that those are off the table.
nt
If they want this then they should lead by example and be the first to have their DNA added to this database.
IMO the way the US insulate it from the rest of the world culture, some part of it being even downright insulting thinking "civilization" only exists in the US, is what lead to that situation IMO. The next step from isolationism has been a shift to the right and conservationism and the worst part of it, not the fiscal part. Isolated people start having fears, and the terrorism fear, the illegal immigrant fear , the wall, tea party are symptom of this. I forsee that it will continue until the US implode in its own fear. And take/destroy a whole part of the world economically with it.
Oh, yes, lets start settling our political disputes with guns. Maybe your neighbors don't agree with you and decide your neighborhood would be better off without you.
Sometimes I am really glad I don't live in the US anymore. It was once a nice country, at least, in my rose-tinted memories...
It's not even that this guy is a Republican. The Democrats have their very own totalitarian tendencies.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
This will expand the business model for gravedigers, with a new sideline selling DNA samples from old corpses to be submitted as the sample for workers who want to keep their own DNA private.
>" It seems to be a daily occurrence where we have crossed another line in how far we will go to accept massive surveillance as normal."
Forced mass collection of DNA is REALLY crossing a lot of lines. I can't believe anyone would even propose such a bill.
We can thank John Roberts for opening the door to government forcing you to buy things against your will. They'll just call it a tax.
Now, and surely more certainly in the future, the information demanded in this law will allow others to become you absolutely anytime they want to. Name, address, social security number, even DNA - what else is left that defines you as you? Hackers will have a field day. We Americans have lost the belief that freedom should cost anything in our daily lives. We are willing to give up freedom, privacy and rights if we think we can attain some minor level of safety and protection by doing so. Those who strive for more power over Americans know this and use this cowardice.
E Proelio Veritas.
History teaches us that usually people have to be actually starving to death before considering revolution, so don't hold your breath.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
How much would I get to give them my DNA -
$ 5k ?
probably way too low....
Yea, this creepy behaviour has been around for 10 years now. Anybody remember DNA checkpoint traffic stops in Texas?
also min wage workers can't be forced to pay that fee and the work place will have to pay it.
That's exactly what I take issue with. People need to stop pretending care about this shit. The entire political process in every Western nation is currently nothing but a work of theater. Farming peoples' impotent outrage is now a booming industry in its own right.
If you don't care, you need to stop pretending to care. All anyone does by futile protest is indirectly give more money to the people enacting the oppressive policies.
Government shall be prohibited from collecting personal information belonging to the citizens of the United States except for the US census that occurs every 10 years.
Republicans have gone unshot and unguillotined for far too long. This is why they act like this. Everyone is a subhuman serf in their eyes, existing only to make them money and toil in misery - both are needed for members of the party to feel "the most special, the biggest most".
When you combine this technology with recent advances showing it's easy with a lab to fake or recreate DNA evidence, and the ease and likelihood of both false positives and outright construction being added to endless surveillance, Livingston's intent is clear and extremely malignant.
Those pushing for this must be dealt with, no matter how much they screech and sneer that stopping them would be against the law. They've never given a flying fuck about the law when it comes to doing what they want, and not a single member of the GOP is in any way redeemable. We have everything to gain by their elimination, and everything to lose by their continued survival.
The future is here. See the movie Gattaca (1997). Very chilling once the government starts demanding your DNA.
> Steve Scalise got his ass shot off and yet still found it within himself to promote more guns. Never underestimate a pol's moral depravity.
Isn't "moral depravity" more when you try to murder someone for being a Republican, then try to blame & disarm the victim so that your attacks will succeed next time?
The problem is with those people who have bad hearts who wish to hurt others. Your plans will leave only the honest people giving up their guns and these are the guns that protect people. But you don't care about any of that, you just want to feel morally superior to others, even as you work to help a murderer you agree with by trying to disarm the victim.
London is also trying to roll out facial recognition, tied into a database that tracks movements. They are basically trying to build The Machine from Person Of Interest, that tracks everyone using cameras and cell phones to predict crimes. The difference being, in Person of Interest, the designer made it so you couldn't "direct" the Machine - it only spat out the ID of potential terrorists. London's technology is totally unencumbered by such fail-safes.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Actions like these are the thin edge of a wedge, that once started, are almost impossible to stop. Anyone who values their freedom should run from this. I would rather cut grass with the Mexicans than have a job that required this.
I hear lots of people suggesting a military response if it passes. It's yet another example of government going too far. And this was introduced by a RINO.
I fear this is a response to a recent incident of abuse at an extended care center here in Arizona. An incident so abhorrent I will not describe it here. So we have an ambulance chaser making such a noble proposal...
And the overreach:
In Arizona, this will include real estate salespersons and brokers, among others. The current list of those required, in Arizona, to obtain a fingerprint clearance card:
ABDE-Dental Hygienist Licensure
ABDE-Dentist Licensure
ABDE-Denturist Certification
ADFI-Appraisal Management/Controlling person
ADFI-Appraisal Management/Registration
ADFI-Appraiser-License or Certificate
ADOT Traffic School Licensure
ADOT-Driver Training School Licensure
AZ Board of Fingerprinting-Members & Staff
AZ Charter School Board-Member/Applicant
AZ Dept. of Ed-Attend Vocational Program; Age 22 or older
AZ Dept. of Ed-Child Nutrition Programs
AZ Dept. of Ed-Surrogate Parents
AZ Dept. Real Estate-Licensure
AZ Game and Fish
AZ Schools for the Deaf & Blind-Superintendent
BPT - Physical Therapist & Assistants Licensure
BTR-Alarm Agent Certification
BTR-Controlling Person Certification
DCS - Child Welfare/Adoption Agency Employee
DCS-Adoption
DCS-Employee or IT Employee or IT Employees of Contractors or Subcontractors
DCS-Field Employee
DCS-Foster Home Licensure
Department of Juvenile Corrections-Licensee or Contract Provider
DES-CCR&R Registered Home
DES-Certified Child Care Provider & Non-Certified Relative Provider
DES-DAAS-Division of Aging & Adult Svcs.
DES-DDD - Developmental Home Licensure
DES-DDD/HCBS-Home & Community Based Svcs.
DES-Domestic Violence/Homeless Shelter
DES-Employee
DES-IT Position
DES-Employee or Contractor with access to Federal Tax Information
DES-JOBS Program
DES-WIOA-Workforce Innovation & Opportunity Act
DHS-Arizona State Hospital
DHS-Child Care Employees & Volunteers
DHS-Child Care Facility Licensure
DHS-Child Care Group Home; Certification, Employees or Volunteers
DHS-Children’s Behavioral Health Programs Employees and Volunteers
DHS-Nursing Care Administrators & Assisted Living Facility Managers
DHS-Residential or Nursing Care Institutions; Home Health Agencies – Employees and Volunteers
Health Science Student & Clinical Assistant
Juvenile Probation-Supreme Court, County Attorney or other Contract Provider Employee or Volunteer
State Board of Pharmacy-3rd Party Logistic Providers Representative
State Board of Pharmacy-Licensure
State Board of Education (Teacher or Other Certification)
Tutor or Teacher Preparation Programs
Charter School Instructor
School Bus Driver
Public and/or Charter School Non-certificated personnel
Public and/or Charter School Contractor, Subcontractor or Vendor and their Employees
Of note; appraisers, IT subcontractors and their employees, alarm agents.
The bill specifies collection from (with my notes in parentheses):
1. A PERSON WHO IS REQUIRED BY LAW TO SUBMIT FINGERPRINTS FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION AS PART OF AN APPLICATION FOR LICENSURE, CERTIFICATION OR A PERMIT OR RENEWAL OF A LICENSE, CERTIFICATE OR PERMIT IF THE PERSON HAS NOT PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED DNA ID. (see the list above)
2. A PERSON WHOSE EMPLOYMENT OR POSITION REQUIRES FINGERPRINTING FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION. (apparently requiring collection if an employer requires fingerprinting, overreach)
3. A PERSON WHO IS EMPLOYED BY OR VOLUNTEERING WITH A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. (redundant)
4. A PERSON WHO, FOR ANY OTHER REASON, IS REQUIRED BY LAW TO SUBMIT FINGERPRINTS FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFICATION. (redundant)
5. A DECEASED PERSON, WHOSE DNA ID SHALL BE COLLECTED BY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER OR THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S DESIGNEE AND SUBMITTED PURSUANT TO PROTOCOLS DEVELOPED BY THE DEPARTMENT. A DECEASED PERSON'S DNA ID MUST BE SUBMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT WITHIN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS AFTER COLLECTION.
6. A PERSON WHO IS ORDERED BY
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to hide. I am squeaky clean and planning on moving to Arizona to prove it. Wait, what do you mean 'databases and the people who use them aren't infallible?'. Oh well, here's my $250 anyway. Feel free to shove it up my ass while I'm bent over for the rest of your laws.
It always makes me laugh when any arrogant American says they are free. The rest of the world is laughing at America. Land of the stupid.
Says the guy supporting a KKK member as VA gov in Northam
A serial rapist as VA Lt. Gov in Fairfax
In addition that same Northam told us about how he supports killing live born babies brought to full term and calling it abortion.
Sure, you support the KKK, rapists, and killing babies.
Congratulations! You are literally a monster
Oh? That's not in the bill.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
"The entire political process in every Western nation is currently nothing but a work of theater. "
There is much, really overwhelming evidence, in the US that this is plainly no longer true. And there are several efforts underway to reverse the rare, most recent act of defiance by The People.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
We're to the point these days where we can usually use available DNA databases to narrow down suspects to a small family. If we have an unknown DNA sample, we can sequence it, match it against the genealogy DNA databases out there (usually GEDCOM). We'll find that the unknown DNA matches both the Doe family and the Roe families, leaving us to find the individuals resulting from a marriage between the two families. After that, it's just a matter of some simple deduction (e.g. Jane Doe and Richard Roe had four children, one was male while the suspect's DNA was female, another was living in Alaska at the time, but the third and fourth one was in the area at the time of the murder), some police work to retrieve a sample of DNA (e.g. tail them, wait for them to get a coffee and then fish the empty coffee cup out of the trash), and it's done.
The cat's out of the bag at this point. Assume GEDCOM and the other genealogy databases go defunct. Okay, great, you've just delayed the problem for a few years before some federal contractor builds in the ability to match DNA samples to relatives who have been incarcerated or DNA collected at a crime scene. (The US locks up a lot of people. Countless others (including murder victims) have their DNA collected by the police for the purpose of elimination.)
I think the question we should be asking is what limits should we put on this power? And how do we work on training police and prosecutors in this new era? What instructions do we give to a jury? Because when you can match anyone's DNA that you find at a crime scene, it's going to lead to more random coincidences and mistakes. (A famous one would be the "serial killer" whose DNA was found at multiple crime scenes - but it turned out the "killer" was a factory worker at the place that makes the swabs being used.)
Teachers, policemen, and these sorts of jobs are already required to spend $100 every few years to have fingerprints taken, and more extensive criminal background checks. What's the problem with DNA? The only real issue I have is that $250 is a pretty large hit for the workers.
DNA evidence works, and even on Slashdot I don't see any legitimate criticism. People mention "pre-crime" because, I don't know, they like sci-fi I guess. People talk about accidental matches, but no, your DNA is as unique (more unique) as your fingerprint.
Before they pass this they need to pass a data privacy liability act. It should state the penalty for every occurence of a data record being lost to hackers because of inadequte security on the data base. FOr example, $1 million for loss of a DNA record, $500K for loss of a financial record, $250K for loss of a social security number. $100K for loss of a purchase history record and so on.
Additionally the penalty would apply not just to the person that collected the data in the first place but separately to any other parties it was entrusted to who lost it. So shared data would be subject to double the penalty. This would prevent avoiding responsibility by delegation.
If they did that then I'd not be quite as fearful of this. It could still be abused by the gov't itself but this would reasonably limit the scope
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Quote:
It seems to be a daily occurrence where we have crossed another line in how far we will go to accept massive surveillance as normal. Do we even have a line the sand that we would defend? Do we even see anything wrong with it? Absolute power corrupts absolutely and we continue to give knowledge of our personal lives (power) to others. If we continue down the same path, I suppose we deserve what we get? I want to shout "Stop the train, I want off!" but I fear my plea would be ignored.
----
Subby laments these losses of privacy, but I have to wonder:
Do you have Alexa in your house?
Do you use a debit / credit card?
Do you have a smart tv?
Do you drive a car made after about 2007?
Do you carry a cell phone?
There are *many* way more intrusive things going on than being recorded in public places.
Are you living your convictions and actually reducing your surveillance footprint, or are you just lamenting on Slashdot?
It doesn't sound very republican to mandate a wide scale government project that would force people to surrender money
look, at some point its going to have to happen. Every humans DNA is going to have to be on file. it's the one way. I don't like it, but it's because of the abuse I don't like, everyone doesn't need to see everyones DNA, and people of power or in position of DNA access, should be prevented of abuse, stealing, etc. DNA on everyone in a database is not "bad" or "evil", but humans can be, and that is the part that scares me.
I love how the Republicans want smaller government, unless it's for the surveillance state, and then they're all over it.
Republicans sure do love their fascism, don't they?
You can make Republicans sign anything if it is intrusive on people's lives under the pretense of security, even if it means a state which is becoming hostile to the liberties of everyone.
Now, see if he'll sign a bill to make gun owners pay for the exact same thing, and watch the hypocrisy fly.
Just recently a serial killer, who was never caught after many decades, got caught thanks to public DNA databases!!!
This bill/person/post surely talking like a classic ANTI-GOVERNMENT ANARCHIST trying to protect "privacy" of criminals (when public is really ok w/ it; when public DNA databases & cameras in public places are helping catch criminals & not causing any harm to public)!!!
I for one am glad that we are creating a database that can be used to conclusively identify Arizonans. Even though Arizonans can look just like normal people, with this technology we will be able to finally root them out.
Trump was not an act of defiance. He was the switch from soap opera to pro wrestling. He's 100% as fake as the rest of Washington.
David Duke was never supported by the GOP and was constantly asked to leave the party.
An attempted mass murderer, who supported the DNC, attempted to kill a bunch of GOP Congressmen. Does that mean the DNC supports mass murderers?
Your logic is very flawed in your attempt to cover for the KKK.
Northam is CURRENLTY supported by the DNC, along with serial rapist Fairfax. In addition the DNC supported KKK leader Robert Byrd for 60 years and it was never once suggested he resign or leave the DNC.
So congratulations, you just stood up for a rapist and KKK members. Not sure why you felt it necessary to do so, but you did. Personally I would be screaming for Northam to resign/quit the DNC if I were you, not attempting to protect him. But if you support the KKK your actions make perfect sense.
Soda is for idiots. At least be like a russian and use real drugs to destroy your mind and body.
I get along great with christians and have been known to go to church with friends. I've even been to the Church of the savior of spilled blood. Have you see it? Amazing!
When you elect morons and start wars that never end because some of you think a war in the middle east will get you into heaven. _That_ particular strain of christianity is fair game and we can laugh at it all we want.
but you're not even an american you're a fucking russian russian russian so go eat a dick you imposter
Too lazy to login.
Your list is the whole point. It is becoming so routine and the norm that you have no choice but to be swept away by the tide unless withdrawing from society, and your family, is an option. Reducing your surveillance footprint will even eventually cause one to be more visible in some respects.
This is no good end to this.
So, yes, lamenting on Slashdot.
It is not Arizonians...
In another state they tried to do simple fingerprinting of existing IT employees and got smacked down, and it was at employer's expense. Are Arizona's public employee unions made of toilet paper?
Republicans like to talk about ayn rand until they're blue in the face.
Most self proclaimed libertarians vote for republicans and have no idea what the actual libertarian party believes about anything.
Like when I told my "Libertarian" uncle that the libertarian party wants to legalize weed (they actually want to legalize all drugs) he said "no no no the libertarian party only wants to get rid of stupid laws"
This is a college educated man who eats and breathes this shit and hardly a day goes by that he's not ranting against obummer or demoncrats on facebook and email chains.
The libertarian party was also once the party of pedos. Really they were once buddies with NAMBLA.
There are no actual libertarians just guys who have zany ideas and think that they're in good company, in reality if you sat them all down in a room and tried to get them to agree on anything except lowering taxes and legalizing guns and other megalobby special interests; Once they start talking about legalizing LSD or what it really means to have religious freedom shit will fall apart. If it doesn't it would go insane as soon as a few people start talking about "sexual freedom for minors". It will look a lot like what happens when a bunch of different 'intersectional' SJWs get together.
I can already see the chubby pink jowls jiggling and the stubby fingers being pointed left, right and even, up, down, and in the mirror. "Oh no!!! You're not a TRUE libertarian. You big government tax guzzler!"
"Me? What about YOU? You round earth believing authoritarian!!!!"
"No both you are equally at fault you're the ones in the way of god's nude utopia!"
Sure I know that some of these positions have nothing to do with libertarianism but try and tell that to the libertarians. They'll each have some reason why all their gripes with the world come back to some philosophy of freedom and personal responsibility.
The NSA already taps calls and tracks cell phone location, so it's no big deal if they force everyone to buy an Amazon Echo to record every word spoken in your own home!!!
Yes, parents are paranoid about teachers and day care workers, but their is no reasonable excuse to DNA test them. They do not commit more crimes than other professions nor do they have an easier time hiding from an investigation.
But police officers are very very hard to charge, let alone convict of a crime. In addition, they routinely contaminate crime scenes with their DNA, so they should have it taken if only to prevent the forensics teams from thinking that a random drop of cop blood came from the criminal suspect.
I see no reason not to require all police officers from giving DNA samples. But teachers and day care workers do not have those issues and furthermore do not get paid enough to charge them to $250 for the right to get a job.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I don't know about AZ specifically, but cops in some jurisdictions have crazy shit written into their contracts. Like having 24 hours to get their story straight before being questioned for a possible crime they committed. So if this fascist shit sandwich makes it through committee and into a signed bill, maybe the Fraternal Order of the Gestapo can use their power for good, for once, and fight it until it's repealed.
Story directly contradicting your claim.
Has House Majority Leader calling for seizing of guns as a "National Emergency" next time a Democrat is in the White House.
Choosing an obvious lie that is easy to disprove is the actions of a sociopath, which apparently you are. Which makes sense for someone defending the party of the KKK, rapists, and baby killers. Would you like to explain how supporting the KKK as well as lying is a good thing for us?
If you aren't willing to put up with this shit you have to move some place where there are other like-minded people willing to fight this crap. The sad reality is democrats and republicans are little different and at best abuse us in slightly different ways. This is why those who don't believe in the use of violence, theft, and fraud to achieve social and political objectives (outside of self-defense at least) have been migrating to New Hampshire overt the past 10 years. The largest community of liberty-loving folks fighting this and other abuses and even rolling back some of these abuses we've suffered are here in New Hampshire. Where else are going to be able to spend crypto in the brick and mortar world or see laws passed that protect your rights rather than abolish them? Nowhere. Not even the fictional 'liberland'.
Oh Republicans! Is there any principle you won't abandon? Is there any ideal you stand for, anything noble, anything non-selfish?
Republicans used to be the party of individual rights and freedoms. They used to be the party of small government, parsimonious spending. They used to be four-square behind international trade. They used to be the party of personal accountability, and lead-by-example with moral leadership. They also used to stand for freedom and democracy on the international stage.
All gone. Now the Republicans are the party of selling out. The party of hypocrites. The party of Judas and Benedict Arnold. The party of Putin and Mohammed Bin Salman. Was Donald Trump worth your soul?
Well, actions speak louder than words. We know the answer.
If I lived in Arizona I'd first refuse utterly to comply with this if it were passed into law. Then if that failed I'd pack up and leave Arizona. My DNA is nobodys' business but mine. If passed into law somehow (doubt it) I'd recommend everyone in Arizona who is affected refuse to comply. It's too nasty of a precedent if this is actually allowed to become Arizona law.
This is Arizona. They all have the same DNA anyway.
"Bill 1475 was introduced by Republican State Senator David Livingston..."
OF COURSE this was proposed by a Republican senator, a member of the "we hate big government" party.
And making the donor pay for it is just adding insult to injury. Republicans suck and we all know it, this is just one more example of their double-dealing and lying.
I feel like the real issue with this system is that "your" DNA isn't really yours in the way a fingerprint is since large parts of it are shared with your family members in a way that other bio-metrics like fingerprints are not. Therefore, this seems like it may be an unconstitutional violation of privacy for those individuals. While teachers, policemen, etc. consent to have this data collected when they apply for those professions, their family has not consented to this data collection. Additionally, unlike the case with say roommates consenting to a police search, sharing DNA with someone is not a voluntary compact and cannot be treated in the same manner.
To me, the biggest issue here is "consent by death". As others have mentioned, I can always quit or not take the job if I object to the mandatory DNA test. One can not opt out of death. How do I loose my rights just because I die? Not to mention, if my brother dies, how does that give the state rights to my family DNA? Total overreach.
but any dead body that comes through a county medical examiner's office would also be fair game to be entered into the database
They can have my DNA when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers! >:-(
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
There is a fucking video of it attached tot the story.
And then you double down on covering up for KKK/rapists.
It has literally gotten to the point where a major platform for the DNC is protecting KKK members. You wouldn't think it, but here you are.
"The living will be required to pay [a $250 processing fee] for this invasion of their privacy, but any dead body that comes through a county medical examiner's office would also be fair game to be entered into the database."
Shall we start with Sen. Livingston?
If he doesn't like it, he can always become a [CAPTCHA] "bellman."
You need a rectal-dick-ectomy
they want to guarantee certain things needed by humans as rights. Food, shelter, healthcare, education being the big things. You can keep your money so long as you're not keeping so much that folks are malnourished, dying from the elements or paying $800 bucks for insulin (like my Dad just did).
/. you're gonna get even if you don't ask): join the Democrat party so you can vote in their primary and put left wing, pro-worker folks in charge. Remember, so few folks show up to a primary that your vote has real power there. Politicians don't fear losing in the general, they fear the _primary_.
As for the GOP, they're the ones that want your money. They couldn't care less about your body & soul. Not the party leadership anyway. Take a look at their policy. Watch what they _do_ not what they say (otherwise the Evangelicals will make it look like the body/soul thing is real). They consistently push for policies that lower wages (free trade, more cheap work visas, Union busting) and put workers on edge (dog eat dog healthcare policy, support for payday loan vendors, allowing elevated lead in drinking water). Watch what they do and you'll see a pattern emerge.
This is not to say the Dems are blameless. The dominant wing of the party, the Clinton Democrats, are identical to the GOP. They're after the same thing: to shift as much money to their donors as possible while taking as much for themselves along the way. But the difference is that folks like AOC and Bernie Sanders exist and have significant power in the party. e.g. there is _something_ redeemable there. I don't know of anything even close to that in the GOP. Even Rand Paul falls in line when it's time to.
My advice (which being
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Seriously, you couldn't vote in the country unless you were a white landowner (and a specific shade of white at that, no we don't want the Irish) until fairly recently. And there's probably still folk alive who remember when dames couldn't vote. The civil rights movement is recent history and the gays are _still_ fighting for basic rights like the right to make purchases from public businesses and to marry (and losing a lot of those battles, I'll add, especially in light of the two new SCOTUS justices we just got).
This is not, nor has it ever, been the land of the free. That's just crap you were taught in school so you wouldn't do anything so ostentatious as try to make that silly little myth real.
And freedom, real freedom, is _economic_ freedom. Remember, you're not free so long as someone controls your access to food, shelter, healthcare, education & transportation. Until then you're one bad month away from being made to do whatever the hell somebody with money wants you to.
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It is not uncommon to harvest fingerprints from gov't employees (police, firemen, emt, teachers, etc), as well as those subject to background checks like child care workers. I've worked in public K-12 education, and such measures are standard.
The new wrinkle is DNA. OK, maybe a good idea, maybe not - worth discussing IMHO - but asking new hires to pay for their background check is, again, standard.
And of course, the headline leaves open exactly who this applies to - "Arizonans" implies everyone, it actually applies to a very small subset of Arizonans, largely those paid by taxpayers to work in a position of trust (PD, FD, EMT, Teachers, Child Care, etc.).
Ken
You're making the mistake that these folks are negotiating in good faith. It's a common mistake. People like to think that everyone has the country's best interests at heart and they're just going about it wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth. The last several federal government shutdowns should have cured us of that misconception, but the notion was embedded in our heads when we were kids so it's tough as nails to dislodge.
There's something in the GOP called "Starve the Beast". It means intentionally wrecking the government in order to undermine faith in it. It is terrorism. No two bones about it. It's using fear and disorder for a political purpose, which is the definition of terrorism. This is that.
If the folks refuse then the GOP will be happy to fire them all and bring in scabs (look it up if you're too young to know what a scab is). If that happens they'll have achieved the long cherished goal of privatizing public services like education and police.
So go ahead. Let them refuse and get fired. The folks in charge send their kids to private schools where they'll fall in line. And the end result will be exactly what they want.
Like I said, you can't win when the other side isn't negotiating in good faith. It's why the Dems wouldn't cave on the last shutdown. We don't negotiate with terrorists, but sadly it seems we vote for them.
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so yeah, this matters to me.
I'm also _tremendously_ unlucky. I don't like to believe in fate but with the sheer number of bad things that happened to me in life outside my control I'm tempted to. If anyone could get a false positive that lands him (or a family member) in jail with $200k in legal bills to fight off a prosecutor it's me. And I'm a nerd, I'm not good looking enough to go in front of an American jury without the best lawyers money can buy.
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Having DNA of all of us would solve crimes in numbers we can't appreciate. Imagine if the 11,000 children now held illegally by the border patrol could have their parents located by DNA testing. Charging people to post their own DNA however is the wrong way to go. it is the process of deduction rather than surveillance that gives DNA collecting do powerful. If the individual appears to have disappeared being able to quickly find his children and relatives may prevent a criminal from hiding and thus actually prevent crime. If you know you can't get away with it the chances are you'll never do that crime.
Only politicians and criminals should be forced to hand of their DNA to a government database.
Of course, the 2 groups have a lot of overlap.
Although this bill probably won't pass, there's some crazy shit going on there.
I could write a wall of text, but I'll try to keep just this short.
Before I moved to AZ, I thought Joe Arpaio was the toughest sheriff in America and I respected how tough he was on crime. When I moved there, I found out he was a crazy corrupt tyrant, but his publicity machine somehow only let the "tough on crime" aspect out of the state. (or blame the press for ignoring it...whatever)
I had been an unaffiliated voter all my life, but registered Republican just to vote against Sheriff Joke in the primary. The shit he pulled during that election and in office would have made Nixon proud and Trump jealous.
If it weren't for the immigrants, I would love to live in AZ and by immigrants I'm not talking about the Indians (Native Ameicans) or the Mexican Americans who have lived there for generations. I'm talking about assholes like Joe Arpaio who were born in Massachusetts and states like that.
Sorry...this post is worse than I meant it to be. I too am an interstate immigrant.
Nominating for best non-car analogy of the month. Bravo!
Just another day in Paradise
Nonsense. You can forgo the items listed above. You *do* have a choice. Of course it's one that carries with it consequences in terms of convenience and modern living. Previous generations also had this choice. We are use to paying certain utility bills every month for water, sewer, electricity, etc. 60+ years ago this was not automatic. Many did not like having reoccurring bills of this sort because they felt it was a form of servitude (I don't necessarily disagree). So they chose to go without. The result of their choice is that they found themselves "free" but increasingly isolated as their homes lacked running water, indoor bathrooms, air conditioning, etc.
Living free usually means living different. That's still true today.
The legislation, which just passed the Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee in a 5-3 vote that was about as party line as it gets (5 republican yes, 3 democrat no) and still needs to be voted on by the legislature, applies only to people licensed to provide direct care to mentally disabled patients in an intermediate care facility, and was initiated because some fuckwad raped and impregnated an incapacitated woman at the Hacienda Healthcare long term care facility.
So we are talking about legislation that affects at most a couple hundred people, in a state with six million citizens. Arizona already requires bio-data (read fingerprints) for tens of thousands of people who have jobs involving direct contact with their fellow AZ citizens -- everybody from cops and firemen, to school bus drivers and pharmacy technicians. This legislation requires a small subset of those people already required to provide biometric data to provide additional bio-metric data that would be *useful* in identifying somebody suspected of a heinous crime and clearing everybody else. And making them pay for it? Hey, it's Fiscally Responsible! (TM). They can write it off on their taxes, the way pharmacy techs write off the costs of their fingerprint cards.
Why is anybody getting their knickers in a twist over this?