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Apple Announcements
pavewrld sent in a couple of links. The first is over at MacWorld Online
and announces the new PowerMac G3's, which look similar to the iMac.
The second announces the new iMac's, which
now come in a variety of colors. Also in Apple news, NikT wrote in to say that
Mac OS X server was announced, and it will include Apache and BSD 4.4.
Finally, Ethan Butterfield wrote in to let us know of Steve Jobs' keynote
address at MacWorld Expo. Apparently Apple has licensed OpenGL from SGI, and John
Carmack demoed Quake 3 Arena on one of the new G3's. You can read more at Macintouch.
Phew! With MacWorld Expo going on, the Apple news is nonstop.
I want one of each :)
Granted I'm generally pro-Mac, but I gotta say Apple really seems to have made some smart moves here. They hit on four main points today: 1) The new G3's 2) OS X Server 3) Game support and 4) new iMac colors
1) First off let me say that I am not dissapointed with these new G3's and they are gonna sell like mad. I have some SCSI and serial stuff that I'm not sure what I'll do with but the price/performance ratio is very nice. The expandability (besides the slots, and I've never used over 2) is also amazing. This is a box that people should keep in use for well over 3 years, and if it is processor upgradeable then all the better. The styling is a little iffy but the side door opening is classic. Like MacWeek said, they are small enough to hide under the desk if you don't like the styling.
FireWire is gonna kick ass. My mind boggles at the possibilities presented by a FireWire LAN. Just as Apple pushed SCSI as a standard 12 years ago and USB last year, FireWire will become the high speed serial standard of 1999.
2) The demo of OS X Server was very quick but impressive. Personally I'm more interested in it's user interface and it's network management features, but booting 50 iMac's off the stock PowerMac running the server stands as one of the better demo's I've seen.
3) Game support - can you believe they got Carmack up there? You gotta believe that is a good thing and Carmack was as honest as I expected. The Playstation emulator along with OpenGL support built into the OS is making the mac look like a hell of a gaming platform again.
4) iMac's in color - it's about time. Put a few on order for me!! The speed bump and price cut is noce but could have been more dramatic. Oh well.
Overall a good day for Apple and if at least 2 of these four points prove successful it should take the word "beleaguered" from out front of Apple computer in most people's minds for good.
AAPL gets OGL finally! After all the doubts and fighting and annoying things from Alex St John, Apple gets religion. I don't know alot about 3D programming but getting Carmack to say nice things about Macs is a miracle.
;)
Now if only Apple licensed Mesa instead
K-
That's a bit steep I think, considering that Apple just
ripped the Mach kernel. So basically you're paying
a grant for a window manager (or should I say desktop
environment).
The thing to realize is that MacOS X Server = OPENSTEP 5.0, with that bit of info, the price isn't that bad, it's actually a price cut. Take a look at how much OPENSTEP 4.2, or worse how much OPENSTEP 4.2 Developer costs.
So, where's the news about Apple including LinuxPPC instead of MacOS on some of their systems? I remember this being posted on slashdot from a MacRumour site... anyone have any info. on this?
While I see a G3 version mentioned (this had better run on my 8500/180 (604e) as promised), I didn't see any mention of the x86 version that is also supposed to be available. What's up with that? Can't wait for my copy to appear in my mailbox!
Uh, I've heard that the rage 128 is damn good - and generally better than a Riva TNT. Haven't seen it, but that's what I've heard.
Does this PowerMac use OpenFirmware? ATI is one of the few vendors that have OF versions which is one of the reasons Sun SPARCstations (they invented OF) use ATI stuff. It would add a lot of development time if they go somewhere else.
A few things. Yes, Web Objects is included, and this costs $hundreds$ making the total server package more reasonable.
Well, a ripped Mach kernel it may be. But then again - Avi Tevanian, Apple's head of software, helped build the damn kernel in the first place when he did his stint at Carnegie Mellon. If anybody has a right to change it, it's probably him.
And yeah, the window manager - er, desktop environment - probably spanks anything else resembling Unix (except BeOS). In the long run, this can save a small company a lot of money if they can't afford a real techie to do free linux stuff (which many can't).
Who cares if they are on drugs, and who cares if you don't agree with their marketing? The whole point of marketing is to sell machines and looking at iMac sales they ain't doing half bad.
As far as what processor they compare the G3 to, of course they are going to use the results that make them look best (good marketing).
And speaking of drugs, some of my friends laughed and me and told me I was on drugs a year ago when I bought AAPL stock at $13/share. Now I'm laughing all the way to the bank!!!!
OS X Server for $999? Haha, yeah right. Sure Openstep used to cost more, but it was overpriced then, and didn't has real competitor OSes like Linux around. This will definitely NOT be competing with NT or Linux, or even Solaris. I can get a Sun system cheaper than I can get a lame assed G3 Macintosh system. Thanks for the promises Apple, but stick it. bye bye, I hope your companies burns in flames. You fuck your customers over way too much.
So, uh, the iMac outperforms low cost computers, and its PROCESSOR humbles (??) Pentiums in PCs four times its price? How much does a PowerPC750 233 MHz cost? What sort of Pentium (try PentiumII), K6 or Celeron can you get for four times that price? Or perhaps they mean a computer four times the iMac's price. I think I'd rather have a $4796 PC thanks. How can they get away with this?
1) There are no sound cards you can buy for a mac, besides who would want to, the mac has one of the best sound chipsets I've heard.
2) Who needs a new video card with this machine? It comes with one of the leading chipsets in video.
3) Why does anyone need SCSI anyway, and if you do you can order a card from the Apple Store with your order.
4) It has 4 slots, not three. It has 3 64-bit slots, and 1 32-bit slot.
5)There will be expansion chassis available ranging from 6 slot to 12 slot, which will plug into the existing 64-bit slots to make combinations of either 32-bit slots of 64-bit slots (i.e the 12 slot model will have 12 32-bit slots because of splitting of the 64-bit slots (2*6=12)).
G3 Pro,
i think it's ugly...no...more than that...when i encounter one in a shop i will instantly puke all over it.
macuser since 1986
Excuse me?! Where'd you get that from?
:^) :^) :^)
I just went and built an iMac on Dell's web site and my total came to $1377, a difference of $178.
I'm not sure where you got your comparable features from...
Don't forget to include the 15" monitor, if you didn't. Also, don't forget to add in the 10/100MB Ethernet. My iMac couldn't live without it...
You can also save a touch (I think it was $19) by going down to a 32x CD-ROM drive.
Unfortunately, I couldn't add in a microphone. Nor could I add in an infrared port. I also couldn't add in the $0.25 for a second headphone jack
the iMac anime chick was really cute... now let's see a takeoff on "pick your favorite flavor, please" :-)
I couldn't never understand Apple pricing strategy! For $1,200 you could get a PII/450Mhz with a cheaper kind of video card (my friend just got one thru onsale.com recently).
Yeah, you could claim that G3 runs much faster than PII even though it's not true (Boot Magazine
had an article about comparing Photoshop bt G3 and PII back in October, I think).
Better yet you could even get an Alpha-533Mhz for $2,200 at dcginc.com.
I really like to get a G3 machine but with this kind of pricing I would rather get an Alpha then!
DS
Maybe MS sells crap to the world, but I'll bet you Bill Gates has enough money to buy you as a sex toy any day.
Time for me to ditch this joint...
I have to admit, my first reaction was one of revulsion as well. I was hoping for a translucent black thing with blinking lights.
On the other hand, I've seen a few more pictures and I think it's growing on me. I'll have to make a stop at CompUSA and eye one out before I begin sticking my finger down my throat...
The price is really quite a bargin considering
that it comes with WebObjects and unlimited users
which can boot from the server.
Well, that was enlightening...
:^)
I have an iMac sitting next to me. It has an ethernet plug on the back. It has an infrared port on the front (I've used it with my PowerBook--way slick). It has two headphone jacks.
What part are you having a hard time understanding?
Yeah but the Rage 128 still kills it in 32bit so in a game that is rendered in 32bit and uses trilinear would probably turn up fairly equal. Is there even a Mac TNT? Anyway about the image quality, point me to the site that has pictures up. I haven't been paying attention to hardware the past few weeks and I never heard about the screenshots of the Rage 128 in action.
-Anonymous Loser
Get it into your Mac-loving head. Most of the people who are finding things wrong with these Macs annoucements on this site are not NT-zealots. Hadn't you noticed that before? In light of this awesome revelation, doesn't your argument seem a little silly. Have you looked at the 50-user license on a $2.50 Debian CD recently?
Can one buy OSX Server w/o WebObjects for, say, $100?
What is the hardware like under the hood and how do they compare to the x86? I can't stand MacOS but if I was going to buy a linux-only machine I wouldn't hold any bias. Does it really matter how fast these machines are when they are about twice the cost of an Intel equivalent or could I pick up a really cheap one that would run Linux pretty well?
... me thinks Apple needs a new design team...
Except anything to do with Linux, dammit.
That still not right. They have one fast-PCI (66MHz 32-Bit) and three wide-PCI (33MHz 64-Bit) slots. And, according to news.com, the CPU's are copper based.
-nix
Actually he was right. three 64 bit slots (at 33 mhz), one 32 bit slot (at 66 Mhz).
http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html
Did anyone catch the article in Washington Times last week that told how Jobs was trying to strong-arm the California Congressional delegation to vote against impeachment and conviction?
Every day, it gets worse for Clinton. Now a 13-year-old is being DNA tested to see if he is Clinton's son. The kid's mother was a crack whore from Little Rock. The kid's DNA is being compared against Clinton's DNA information that Kenneth Starr published in his report to Congress. See www.drudgereport.com for more information.
Jobs need to quit inviting Clinton for sleepovers in his house and dump this Loser.
Except for that, Jobs is doing great.
Wouldn't a professional designer have a Kensington trackball anyway? Or at least something comparable? I wouldn't buy a computer (Mac or PC) expecting to use the stock pointing device.
steve really likes the stuff
($999 is the new price of the Rev.B iMac, which will run OS X Server.)
dell dimension p2 400 with roughly the same specs as the new g3 300 - $1420 (you can't really say the g3 300 is a lot slower than the p2 400, they're about the same)
less than $200 less than the g3 price tag of $1599
come on people, this is really good by apple standards. doesn't anyone remember when it was about $1000 more for about the same performance?
I don't believe you are the customer they are aiming at. Since MacOS X Server is still too Unix-ish for most people, the higher cost is probably to disuade the average MacOS user from buying it so as to reduce the support burden on Apple itself. Anyways, I would guess that the only people who are interested in it are probably corporate customers who want a reliable WebObjects server platform, and $995 is penuts to them.
i got the joke but seriously doesnt it say something that apple people refer to the ceo by first name, like hes their uncle or something? i mean are you on a first name basis with the company that made your car's ceo???
iMac Ad
http://www.apple.com/home/images/imaccolors.jpg
Beetle Ad
http://www3.vw.com/art/museum/s_flower.gif
I am expecting to see more 'beelteish' iMac ads...
c'mon...Mesa is a bunch of freeware crap, just like linux. You think Apple is going to base something as important as OpenGL on some amateur project? I dont think so. Jobs aint gonna let it out the door until it's bug free. Apple doesnt ship buggy software like Microsoft. I've never ever used an Apple product for the Macintosh that could ever even remotely be described as buggy.
Once Quake3 is out there, everyone in the world will see that Macs are the best gaming platform. The quality of the OpenGL implementation will reflect on Apple as a company. They just cant afford to ship 3rd rate software to demanding users -- they'd see right through it in an instant.
Gumber sez:
"Ripped the Mach kernel?" What does that mean?
A few points:
1. Mach is a Microkernel.
2. It takes more than a kernel to make an OS, it takes even more to make an OS from a Microkernel.
3. Next, which is now part of Apple, helped fund development of the Mach kernel.
4. The creator of the Mach kernel went on to work for Next, and now, Apple.
5. Don't be stupid.
Gumber sez:
You are right, they probably will drop support of it after this version, replacing it with what will effectively be a superset of this one, a server tuned version of the Full OS-X with Carbon APIs.
Such a bummer
It was a couple years ago when I was pricing all this out, so I may be a bit foggy on the details. I know that if you wanted to host multiple sites with database access, you were going to be paying upwards of $10,000.
Gumber sez:
Personally, I think it is the best looking computer I have ever seen. I love the neo-retro-spaceageyness of the thing. I love that the thing is so easy to get into.
I want one bad, really, bad, unfortunately it is going to be a little while.
If you use an iMac mouse all the time you won't have any trouble with it. Sure, it's nasty for the first few hours but it grows on you.
So, I'd say Drudge comes out looking pretty good in the end, after all.
> it costs $999 for a peice of software
> that apple has no intentions of supporting
> past this version. What a deal!
Not quite right. What you get for $999 is MacOS X Server, a version of AppleShare IP (unlimited clients), WebObjects, and the Yellow Box Development Tools. Now, MacOS X Server might just be morphed into MacOS X, but the rest of the stuff above will certainly survive the transition. Apple can choose to create a "server" bundle with MacOS X and all the add ons above. Or they can sell them separately.
The lowest price for WebObjects 4.0 prior to today was $1499 (NT for development, NT, Solaris, HP-UX for deployment). They also have $7500, $25000, $50000 versions.
AppleShare IP 6.1 with a 50 user client sells for $999 from the Apple Store right now.
Yellow Box comes with WebObjects 4.0 (see above). The earlier version, OPENSTEP Developer 4.2, sold for $4999.
So, MacOS X Server, the whole bundle, is $999. But it's more than just the bare OS.
Gumber sez:
Yes, I am in a foul mood today, and so I have no patients for fools.
Your opening line is totally out-of-line.
By all accounts (John Carmack, for example, who I trust to know a bit more about this than you) this chip delivers excellent performance and visual quality.
The rage 128 may not be "the best" but it is comes real close and ATI has experience making Mac drivers.
We have Dell 333 PIIs and a G23-266 and G3-300.
...
The only app that 'feels' slower on the macs is Nutscrape; which is notoriously slow on the mac. Photoshop, Canvas, Word and some of our science apps 'feel' noticeably faster on the mac. Now my pokey 601-90Mhz feels like a dog compared to the Dells, but
AC
In case you didn't notice, there's more to the computer business than Linux. Apple is an excellent company that's finally gotten some decent leadership and is one of the very few true innovators in the whole industry. I LOVE the new cases and would get one if I didn't already have a G3/300.
As for your last sentence, their systems kick ass, and will for a long time, and their business is intelligent and well-done. The fact that they've survived against MS for, what, 10 years now, and have done it selling an alternative OS on proprietary hardware (until recently at least) says something about quality.
No need for linux servers, no Micrudesoft in sight.
No need for playstations or even a pc to run MS specific progs.
These developements not only make it easy to go mac, but easy to dump everything else and go *only* mac.
Looks like OS X will be Next's second life and Apple's second coming.
I hope Amiga II is done soon so that there will at least be something comparable to measure against.
If Yosemite and Sawtooth (the G4 descendent) come with the iMac keyboard and that damned mouse, I'll keep my Apple Extended Keyboard II (nee 'Battleship') and ADB mouse.
That Keyboard was the best that was ever made. Great feel (no mush), and rock solid. Eight+ years and still going strong!
In contrast, I broke two Gateway 2000 keyboards at work. Damn flimsy, mushy, pieces of shit. If it weren't for my G3 Powerbook getting all the use, the keyboard of my Dell NT machine at work would suffer the same fate.
Imagine that: a notebook (Powerbook) with a better feeling and sturdier keyboard than a desktop (Dell)!
I did help a colleague set up an iMac for his daughter. The keyboard felt A+ (but small). The "where the hell is up" mouse has got to go, though.
"People don't care about that stuff," he said. "What they care about is, 'I want to express myself.'"
Yeah! Just make the box look cool and people won't worry that it is junk inside! What a dream market it would be if everybody just bought things that looked good (for the sellers at least). Same goes with cars, I bet. Just make it transparent blue or green, and people will buy it ... despite the lack of decent features?
After all, people can easily afford two or three iMacs to use simply as decoration around the house. They are SO cheap.
Finally I see a reason to _possibly_ buy into the Macintosh and I'm gonna have to lose my 3 button mouse and my nice "clicky" keyboard. I see a market for people offering PS/2 to USB adapters. Maybe the ability to chain a my PS/2 keyboard and mouse together so I only waste one port.
-Anonymous Loser
Its not just a server OS... though it does that very well. At MacWorld OS X Server booted up 50 harddriveless iMacs and streamed video to them. Very, very slick and pretty, (What a cheap, fast and effective set-up for an instant office. )
Consider this...
OS X Server includes the Yellowbox development tools--- an incredibly excellent and mature set of tools that cost $5000. (and was well worth it) in its former life as OpenStep.
OS X Server includes Appleshare with UNLIMITED seats... a 50 seat Appleshare costs the same price as the whole bundle; $999.
Most of all it includes WebObjects, the most robust enterprise strength stuff out there. NeXT sold WebObjects for up to $50 grand a shot, and the tools alone cost a few thousand, so this is an IMPRESSIVE deal.
The core of the OS won't change much as OS X... though the interface will be more refined and services more complete. As is it is very solid stuff.
Its a excellent deal as an AppleShare server- but an AWESOME deal for Yellowbox and WebObjects developers. Check it out.
Man, what a pityful, distorted view of the world.
:)
You probably prefer you Chevy Cavalier to those "fancy" Lexus and BMWs. Your loss.
I am personally drolling at that nice Apple case design, with the fold out motherboard. Yum. And I don't mind the 400 mhz copper PowerPC, dual on-the-motherboard firewire, fast Rage 128 bit video, etc.
But thats why there is a market for both Cavaliers and BMWs. Cavaliers are so cheap and practical; but personally, I'll take the BMW
Just my two bits.
Time for another helping of Drudge Sludge!
I don't think you can really consider OS X Server a beta of OS X. Most current Macintosh developers are rewriting there applications for the Carbon API, and I don't see any evidence that OS X Server as it ships in February will have Carbon support.
Someone has even suggested to me that they've now removed the Blue Box from OS X Server entirely (ie it won't run *any* existing Macintosh software). I thought that sounded crazy, but if you check www.apple.com and look at the specs for OS X Server, all references to this product running existing MacOS software is gone. I'm not convinced this is true yet, but it looks likely.
You ought to be able to write Yellow Box apps for it, but most developers are probably not interested in that.
Most people by a car according to these criteria. (Not necessarily in order.)
1) how does it reflect my personality
2) color
3) price
4) how does the stereo sound
5) can I get a sunroof?
The reason every car does not look the same is because a very small percentage of the car buying public are motor heads. Computers will eventually be the same.
You can probably get a name brand PC for that much.
If you get the base machine from the Apple Store but choose a 400 MHz CPU instead of 300, you're already over the $2100 price tag you cited for a Compaq. ($1600 base + about $650 for the faster CPU and larger L2 IIRC).
Really, I'm sick of this crap. Unless hackel writes about Linux/PPC or m68k or something similar, I'm just not interested. hackel is a mindless, heartless bastard and I will have nothing to do with him. He sucks now, and will always suck.
And another thing...if I had been around when your mother was pregnant with you, not only would I have paid for the abortion, I would have performed it myself. Eat shit troll!
Please check the price carefully before you post
your comments. I was comparing the base system prices.
Yes, Dell has a $2,500 system but that comes with
a 17" Dell monitor, DVD drive and decoder card, a zipdrive, both ethernet card and modem,
Altec Lansing speaker. And how much for a Mac?
$4,900.
The base Dell system is still only $1,700.
>Do you want Apple to be your frontline support provider for a BSD variant?
Remove Apple, Insert former NeXT employeese
>Where are the SMP systems to migrate up to as your needs grow once you commit to OS X?
When Motorola and IMB ship the G4 then you will see some kick arse SMP systems. Currently the G3 cannot do SMP so Apple does not bother about it. With the Multicore G4's each chip will have two or four cores. And if you put four G4's on a board, that is 16 cores. Each core having an Integer, Floating Point and AltiVec Vector unit! Try doing that on a PII without your own person Nuclear Power Plant.
>and at the moment it's a dead-end as far as scalability goes.
Add the yet to be relased Network Multiprocessing Software and you can scale your arse off. Set one machine as a master and as many as you want as slaves. I dont think Linux can do that, and NT does not even come close. That sort of technology is starting to give Solaris, IRIX and HP-UX a run for its money. Apple broke the RCA crypto competition in 8 weeks using 10 G3 running MacOS X Server on Gigabit Ethernet.. Unlike the Distrubuted.net thingo which took months and months and months using thousands of computers.
Just want to know of you are thinkning that Netbooting will be the same as NXHosting!
Netbooting lets an Mac boot an MacOS from the server. An MacOS not running DPS yet.
Apple is NOT talkning about "NX hosting NextStep/OpenStep based machines, or MacOS X Server machines".
They are talking about booting iMacs (and "others") from a server, loading MacOS into the iMac.
Why should I? I like to build my own machines. So, I should compare how much the machine will cost on each platform, to make the right choice.
I didn't tell Apple to kill off the cloners. The fact that I don't have the choice to build my own PPC-based box isn't my fault.
I would if I could, but I can't, so I won't...
you add a reall SCSI drive and controller (a default on mac)
Not any more, it's not. The new Macs have EIDE drives. SCSI is extra.
It already does. It's called XEmacs.
Admittedly, they killed PowerTalk and CyberDog, but they were unquestionably as bug-ridden as Pixar's last movie...
Oops! Guess you opened your mouth without knowing what you're talking about. The Celeron 300A and newer (333, 400, etc.) do indeed have on-chip cache, albeit a small one (128 K).
"unless its linuxppc or something similar"
it IS something similar, dimwit. it's BSD.
No...They are trying to draw in "normal" people - you know them, the people who aren't like most of said audience?
Then why post the article to slashdot? It's kind of like saying ``A new version of Microsoft Bob has been released'' -- no one cares.
Not true. Slashdot often posts stuff about GNOME, which -- according to your own skill descriptions -- you would find an annoying layer on top of the GNU tools and shells. This discussion is about the computer industry (which includes novices), not just about the ways experts use computers.
If Microsoft Bob were actually a useful tool to teach novices with (I'm not saying it is), then as a sysadmin I would be interested in it.
As for the parts reliability, I'd bet that companies like IBM, SGI, or Sun -- companies that write OSes on the hardware they build -- are more likely to have reliable hardware than jokers like Compaq or Packard Bell, who can just slap any crap hardware together and ship it with Windows98. Workstation manufacturers need some reputation for quality, Win98 vendors generally strive for low prices. I think a similar thing goes for Apple, whether or not you think they acheive a good level of quality. Apple probably has hardware about as reliable as IBM or SGI.
(\x.xx)(\x.xx)
the imac girl he refers to is located at
http://www.din.or.jp/~toy/tb/tb20e.html
however i at one point found an SD imac chick somewhere, but then lost the URL. It was actually just an imac with legs and a superdeformed anime head, but kinda cute.. anyone see this?
Apple _is_ licensing the Conix version of OpenGL.
Here is the URL:t ml
http://www.maccentral.com/news/9901/06.conix.sh
It was eaten in the last post.
the news about the x86 version is all bad. While they probably will release it, once mac os x (final not server) is released there seems to be no promise of any support for intel. so even if they DO release rhapsody/x86 i don't think anyone would want to buy a product where you are essentially promised it will never go past 1.0.
Which is very sad, as one of the coolest things about rhapsody was the simple recompiling between hardware platforms. Apple may have thrown away a good way to start people migrating away from intel hardware and toward theirs. Steve jobs, Mr. Self Destruct. I dunno, hopefully i'm wrong about all this.
and what the hell do you mean, "rhap for intel went on hold as soon as steve jobs came"?? HELLO! before steve jobs came rhapsody did not exist in any form.
Our six-year-old Centris650 went bad because we added memory to it. It was the right kind of memory, installed correctly. The Apple technician said that those motherboards just went bad when you plugged in memory sometimes for some reason. The memory would be there, but the motherboard would turn off the computer at random times, with increasing frequency. Taking out the ram didn't help.
It has nothing to do with "just went bad" -- it's called frying a motherboard.
Mac OS 8.5 which had some bugs of imcompability with several Macs, Apple branded hardware even.
Upgrade to Mac OS 8.5.1 is not available on cds, yet, so when you buy Mac OS now, do not get any of bug fixes. Is this expected public relations or marketing attempt to put the issue of lacking software quality testing out of spotlight? Clue?
You're being sarcastic but it's anoyingly true.
Also remeber that cars are about 10 times as much as an iMac. I mean, purple iMacs.. think about it..
Apple port to mach
www.mklinux.apple.com
just get LinuxPPC from here
www.linuxppc.org
also they will ship cds with it
www.linuxppc.com
or another company "interviewed" on Apples
Hotnews section, search for: terrasoft solutions
http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/
a Debian port
http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
Yeah, they're tiny, but they're running at twice the speed of the P-II's cache.
>Second, in the keynote, Jobs specifically showed
>that the PowerPC G3 400 was about twice as fast
>as a Pentium II 450 with everything else the
>same. Sorry, but I detect FUD.
Come on, do your homework right. He showed the ByteMark test which shows the PPC being twice the speed of the Pii, and then mentioned that you really can't trust it, so he did some side to side comparisons. %20 range was about the difference. (60 fps vs. 50fps on games, 400 seconds instead of 500 seconds.)
Besides, that ain't FUD, it's hype. FUD would be that "intel sux, moto and ibm roolz".
This is a video system for real work plus gaming, not a big nintendo PII.
My wife picked out the car because "it looked sporty and cute"
My mother picked out her computer because "this shade of beige goes with the wall paper".
Maybe techies and gear heads care what's under the hood, but most of the public are happy with their "cute" P-150's and Saturns.
My case at home is ugly as hell... so's my car.
I am.
And if you know how to do it, you are too.
I can consistently configure better, cheaper computers by skimping on things I don't need to be all that great (sound, video on a server, etc) and can get quality parts that I know what they are.
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
First of all, I like Apple and there machines. Say what you will - I'll agree that the OS can use A LOT of fixing (soon to be remedied by OS X - not server, just OS X). I will even agree on the pricing issue, macs cost much more than PCs.
...", etc. - stop bloating you ego/image).
Secondly, QUIT FREAKIN' complaining about things like the case. Look, do you really think that Apple is targeting the slashdot audience? Well, do ya? No...They are trying to draw in "normal" people - you know them, the people who aren't like most of said audience?
Mac OS X server - I'm sorry, Mac OS X server and Linux ARE NOT equal by any means. Sure, they may be able to do some of the tasks, but I'm betting a lot of people are willing to buy an OS that is well supported (you can't get this level of hardware/OS support any where other than commercial establishments). And another thing, Linux is by no means easy to setup. Mac OS X Server is infinitely easier to setup. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, but sometimes this cult-like following needs to admit a few things - like Linux isn't the most user freindly OS in the world (and I don't want to hear those people out there who will pipe up and say, "Oh yes, Linux is VERY user friendly, in fact, the other day I
Price - you all are usually comparing build your own machines to Apple's. Well, stop. Compare to name brand machines. Macs are still more expensive than PCs. Two reasons: Apple sort of needs to keep its profits up. You can't do that with a small consumer following and low prices, you, sadly, have to charge more. Apple has been trying, one can see from the drastically lower prices of new macs, to bring costs down. Reason two: Many may not agree with me, but I believe that Apple machines have better quality parts, and thus a higher reliability. I've seen all sorts of things go bad on PCs, all over the place - more so than on a macs.
I have to agree on the mouse and keyboard - especially the 2/3 button problem.
- Jack Holloway
It makes perfect sense to me - the iMac is competing for the same type of people who, if they bought a PC, would buy a Compaq.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Don't read it then. I'm personally not interested in Apache since I don't run an http server, but I don't bitch when somebody posts an article about it.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Don't read it then. I'm personally not interested in Apache (since I don't run an http server), but I don't bitch when somebody posts an article about it, or when somebody posts an article about corporate databases, or other such stuff that doesn't interest me. If we all bitched every time an article didn't interest us, the comments would suck more than they already did.
So, if you don't like Apple, be quiet and don't read the article.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Definitely top quality stuff. My Apple //c still works flawlessly, as does my Imagewriter color dot matrix printer. I've never had to call tech support for either one of them.
As for the PC crap I've owned, the Packard Bell's motherboard died in 3 years, the Canon inkjet printer is not too reliable, and the 14" monitor is a funny blueish color (it goes away if you jiggle the monitor cable at the back), and it's only four years old.
The Apple, which is 14 years old, is definitely in better condition than everything except the 8-month-old Pentium II (though by the time the Apple is 20 years old in six years, it'll probably be in better condition than the Pentium II will be when it's seven years old).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
The usage "xxx wa yappari yyy" means something more like (in this case) "BeOS is best on Multi". A little more positive-sounding.
God, they're STILL using ATI chipsets? When will Apple ever learn?
:)
While ATI made vast improvements with the Rage 128, everything I've seen indicates it still gets blown away by the likes of a Riva TNT (And in visual quality but not 3D performance by the G200)
Apparently the 128 takes a significant performance hit when performing trilinear filtering, while the Riva TNT gets "free" trilinear.
Still, at least Apple isn't using S3.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
ppc linux + sheepshaver
k /mlvwm.html
for the curious
http://www.sheepshaver.com
http://www.linuxppc.org
and for anyone with grips about interface,
http://www.bioele.nuee.nagoya-u.ac.jp/member/ta
the combination much cheaper (and likely to be
faster) than this BSD4.4 on top of mach thing.
if not for the macOS package being so expensive id
try it out. but it looks like the only real
advantages are the remote mac thing and web objects
"Jobs specifically showed that the PowerPC G3 400 was about twice as fast as a Pentium II 450 with everything else the same"
I work for a company that produced what used to be a Mac-only app, but in 1996 we released a Windows version as well. A Mac fan created a speed test with a script for our app. A Pentium II-300 scored a 14.0 on the test; a G3-300 scored 14.7. (Higher is better) Not exactly a factor of two, and we've been on the Mac much longer than we've been on the PC.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
It wouldn't be a first for VW to include another product as an option to their car.
Altho' a New Beetle Imac could also have a translucent hood and front bumper, come in trippy colors, have a powerful engine, etc. It would also have two daisy-chainable cigarette lighter ports that can attach any type of device. It would have a wonderful CD-changer and speakers. Unfortunately, there wouldn't be a radio, although you could attach a 3rd party one into one of the cigarette lighter ports.
-- Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah. -- Blah Blah
Apple Insider has some more info on the keynote speech, including a blow-by-blow description. I really want to see that pile of 50 iMacs all showing the same video. Jobs sure does have a knack for spectacle.
This is from Macintouch:
dedicated video slot is PCI 2.1 compliant but allows only fixed, 66-MHz operation at 3.3 V.;
the other [3] PCI slots can switch between 32-bit and 64-bit operation (at standard 33 MHz) and operate at 5V.
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
"Sorry, but I can't even find an office PC that costs $4800, unless its a server. And while that 266Mhz G3 might be faster than the 266Mhz
Cyrix in a $400 PC, I suspect it would be sadly embarrased by a 450Mhz PII. Yeah, they got pretty colors, but if they want to maintain
some semblance of credibility, they should install some bullshit filters on their marketing dept. output!"
Uh, the 4800 dollar version is a special apple
server model. You could buy one of the regular
models for a _lot_ less and have a very nice
server running Linux on a 300 Mhz PPC, or
even a 400 Mhz PPC.
I'm lusting after firewire disk drives as we
speak.
(currently testing something about signatures here)
Can you boot fifty diskless clients off linux?
it costs $999 for a peice of software that apple has no intentions of supporting past this version. What a deal!
Wake up mac lamer. Celerons have 128k of on die cache. Makes for a pretty speedy $100 chip, that overclocks pretty dang well.
Oh I forgot: I admin a network of about 100 G3 machines (as well as 350 other macs) and I have yet to see ONE G3 'outperform' (or in Jobs speak) TOAST a pentium. I agree that in theory they may be *faster* but I have never seen it in real life. The damn things are pokier than shit. And I am being nice. (Maybe it is just the MacOS that doesnt do it justice, but linuxPPC has yet to take advantage of the processor yet)
As far as I understand the 4th slot is proprietary, although it's PCI.
Unfortunately, Apple appears to be taking a page from M$ here. At least, half a page at any rate.
MacOS X Server does appear to cost $999. OSX itself will probably be around $100, just as MacOS is now (it's slated to replace MacOS, and it can't do that if it isn't priced similarly).
The difference is that with MacOSX Server you get unlimited clients. NT costs nearly five times as much for that right which M$ calls a "privilege."
Now, there's one other possibility. Consider: it appears that OSX will be perfectly usable as a server. Also consider that $999 is the cost of membership in Apple's developer program. Furthermore, take into account that OSX Server is in essence a beta of OSX. Are you starting to get the picture? The $999 price tag is essentially for the right to betatest OSX. I'd imagine the price will drop very drastically once OSX is released.
For that price I can get the iMac with Virtual PC and run Linux/x86 im emulation faster than the Celeron can natively. It's true.
unstable non-multitasking is a "bug"
Whoa. You've managed to make no sense here. Were you referring to two things (stability and supposed non-multitasking, about which you are dead wrong), or just one?
one game is not enough to make a platform
True. Many games are not enough to make a platform either. Games are, in fact, useless to making a platform; they contribute nothing but marketing dollars. Macs have all the top games anyway (or they are in development) so who cares?
Um, no offense, but what does Java have to do with any of this?
Just a clarification... MacOS X Server _is_ BSD4.4. Mach kernel, BSD personality, MacOS-like GUI.
The new purple iMac looks rather nice, as do the new G3 cases...
There is a paucity of good aesthetic design in computer cases; too often you get either bland beige office furniture, or cheesy scifi plastic. I'd like to see some classic styles; how about an Art Deco Bakelite case; or perhaps curvy orange-red plastic for that swingin'-60s space-age bachelor pad look?
When I last heard, Apple had made no decision on OS X Server support past this version. They were playing around with dropping it, but that was just a rumor. My guess is the Apple is "testing" the waters before it commits to everything. Then again, that's just speculation :-)
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Mac platform and all of that.
And not that I necessarily dislike the look of Yosmite (the new G3 P-Mac), but doesn't it look like something that they snagged out of Barbie's dream house?
I guess I'll stick with LinuxPPC and Sheepshaver.
The ATI Rage 128 outperforms the TNT in 32-bit color mode, which could be important in some of the Mac's 'media' strongholds. It also has a very good MPEG-2 decoder (the best in a 2D/3D combo chip, according to Tom's Hardware), has the RGB out necessary for flat LCD monitors and can handle DTV. Look at Tom's Hardware forum for more information about this. The TNT is better in some respects, but the Rage 128 definitely wasn't a bad choice.
you just can't beat the extended ii. i'm using one _right now_. i'll give the mouse a try - i generally hate all mice equally. at any rate, it looks like i'll be getting one regardless of how potentially ugly it is (2nd generation be hardware was kickass, the imac is kickass... what i really want is a connection machine case. drool)
anyone know of a good usb generic serial adapter? i'd like to keep my existing generimodem.
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Is the cases. Now, I am not crazy about Apple's new cases, but they dont look terrible. But the fact that Apple had the guts to come out with them is what I like. Trying new things...
Now, what I am hoping, is that PC makers take note and start making some cool looking cases. Really, how hard would it be to design a box that can take a stnd ATX case that looks cool? Throw in a couple fans and plenty of drive bays...
So many of us take such time into making our desktops look cool, why not have a case to match?
With Apple showing that a pretty box will sell, hopefully others will jump on the bandwagon.
Elwood.
Elwood
... is it brings together a subset of Microsoft and unix fans so they can bash Apple. This is ironic given that Apple's is moving slowly towards open standrds while Microsoft continues to free from them.
:-D
And yes, I know AC postings shouldn't be considered stereotypical of any group. I wouldn't be AT ALL surprised if at least SOME of these idiot trollers were some part of Microsoft's latest "grass roots" campaign. A cute cowardly Visual Basic script..
Rather than being scornful of Apple's latest move to UNIX you should at least try to find SOME good in this, rather than "it sucks because it isn't Linux". Or at least rant about how Solaris and IRIX are also "not Linux" so to look like more of an idiot to a larger group. Apple, pre-Steve Jobs, were giving serious thought to moving the MacOS GUI on top of the WINDOWS NT kernal.
I think SOME Linux "advocates" are using their platform as an exclusionary tool; I mean they are being critical without being helpful. Lots of people on the "other" side, Windows or Mac, look longingly towards Linux, but then they hear how difficult it can sometimes be to get your hardware working. I bet you System X doesn't have this ease-of-use problem.
Stop looking down your nose be grateful there are "lesser evils" than Microsoft, like Apple, Be, Sun and SGI. If you can program, you should be ashamed of yourself. Donate the time you spend trolling to a worthy cause, like a nice open and FRIENDLY configuration utility that is half as good as Microsoft's and a tenth as good as Apple's.
Flame away, I don't care.
The G3 is not a bargain basement machine. Apple doesn't have the resources or the desire to replicate the entire PC market.
Obviously you can get a cheap PC by skimping on quality of various parts. The G3 is not aimed at you if thats what you want. When comparing to PCs, make sure you're looking at a high end video editing machine. Make sure you include a 16Meg video card plus a Voodoo2, 10/100 Ethernet, 100Mhz bus, 1Meg of cache at 200Mhz, USB and Firewire, etc.
I too was a little dissapointed with the new cases, and raging about the way they used the iMac kybd and mouse. I've decided I like the box - it takes getting used to but I daresay that if you see it in the flesh with one of those monitors... whoa. Nice.
But that mouse is brutal. It is worse than brutal. How the FUCK do they expect a profesional designer using his/her mouse up to 6 - 8 hours a day to use that thing? New USB mice cost money - luckily they left the ADB port, but it's not good enough. That's the one thing that put me off. They decided to save a bit of money and use those shite parts on the part of the machine that you use most (after the monitor).
If I'm working fast I can't afford to make mistakes by hitting the wrong keys and that keyboard is built for it. It's too small, way too small. Whatever happened to the Apple Extended Keyboard II? I have one and it is something else. And the mouse is horrendous to use - weren't they going to bring out an new mouse with two buttons? Come on, guys! It's an anti-photoshop combo from hell.
Sorry. Had to get that out of my system. Yeah, I like that box...
--- Just make it crash, I want to see.
While most of these thnigs are great (mainly Apple still making it to another Macworld) , I think the most important is the OpenGL announcement.....look's like there is a industry standard 3D api now....being on all major platforms. Be, MS, SGI, Apple, and Linux? Also, the new G3 specs are pretty nice, but I am not sold on the case yet. Guess I will need to see one in person. I think SGI has them on this one, as far as cases go. But it looks like they will have some serious graphics horsepower. They are thinking different for sure, the Apple of years ago would never do any of this.
Who is the master of foxhounds, and who says the hunt has begun? -Pink Floyd
I agree, anyone that dare puts a invigorating design out gets points with me. I am pro Mac (an all Mac Architect's office, a dying breed, hope for reversal), and I did't like the iMac when I first saw it in print/electrons, but after getting up close and personal, my mind changed. I suppose the same will happen here, though I did like the rumored ice/smoke grey combo a little better. A little more suttle, at least for my taste.
Who is the master of foxhounds, and who says the hunt has begun? -Pink Floyd
awesome idea, i love cable architecture....and you make desk and floor space, I think you are on to some thing.....
Who is the master of foxhounds, and who says the hunt has begun? -Pink Floyd
in RealVideo, the new box, and well everything, started to grow on me. I suggest checking it out if you can. A little long, but entertaining. And definitely informatinve. I think I will get one of those new boxes, and some descent peripherals.
Who is the master of foxhounds, and who says the hunt has begun? -Pink Floyd
For $4999, you get a single-CPU system with what appears to be 2 drive bays, no floppy drive, and a mighty generous 16MB video RAM that most servers never flex.
Considering the scary dual-PII/450 systems with 6 bays you can get for that money, you'd better plan on making good use of that copy of WebObjects they throw in (which I guess you'll need level-4 JDBC drivers to talk to the world with) and the Appleshare file and print services.
To be fair, it is sort of neat that Apple will now be shipping a rock-solid server OS, of all things.
So that's $1000 for BSD 4.4 bundled with a commercial-grade Appleshare server and a copy of what I perhaps foolishly assume will be a developer-only license for WebObjects, given that WebObjects traditionally costs tens of thousands of dollars to deploy.
And I guess you get phone tech support.. which I sure hope they're busy training people to provide.
I'd still think hard about this. Do you want Apple to be your frontline support provider for a BSD variant? Are you committed to using WebObjects as your web templating and middleware system? And assuming you need to do Mac filesharing, does netatalk not do what you need?
If you answer yes to all the above, this has appeal. If not, you're buying a mighty expensive single-CPU, low-capacity, no-hotswappable-anything box to run that $1000 version of BSD, which is the same price as BSDI/OS AFAIK.
I mean, for the $4000 they're getting for that 256MB G3/400, you can get a pretty nice dual-PII server with 6 hotswap drive bays and a hot-spare power supply.
This is a big leap forward for Apple, but the pricing still isn't quite competitive, and at the moment it's a dead-end as far as scalability goes. Where are the SMP systems to migrate up to as your needs grow once you commit to OS X? It's not as though they'll be able to pitch Mac-like ease-of-use as a price justification for these MacBSD systems.
I'm impressed by the direction they've taken, but the lack of bigger iron in their product line would make it foolish to consider for now. And their decision to forge ahead with what looks like yet another branch off the BSD tree sets off little alarm bells.
among all the hype about new macs, new colors for the iMac... the real news is:
Quake2 and Quake3 will be released for the Mac soon!
:-)
another serious application for the Mac...
-- rednic
Yes, a total of THREE PCI slots.
Knock out one for your new video card.
Knock out one for your SCSI controller.
ANd if you ever upgrade your sound card, there's the last one.
I have yet to see many choices on the USB end, FireWire is gonna be even worse, even if it is far superior.
This is barely more upgradeable than an iMac
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
It may be a grand, but look at what you get -
-unlimited users(YEAH, eat that MS)
-quicktime
-appleshareIP(for serving mac, windows)
-webobjects(very nice, look into it if you dont know about it already)
-And all the other nicities like Apache, while free, will probably have nice setup and config utilities.
-NetBoot(finally. 1 server demonstrated booting up 50 iMacs simultainiusly)
-and it will probably sell for 600 or 700 on the street.
"Stuff... In my home!? NEVER!" - Zim on Invader Zim
"I want the toilet seat!" - Little Dog on Two Stupid Dogs
It actually has 4 PCI slots
1 64-bit 33mhz for the video card
3 32-bit 33/66mhz slots left empty
these high badwidth slots can easily accomodate a PCI expansion chassis with 3,7, or 11 slots(also rumord to be coming out following the same design and the tower) and have space in these for disk arrays. Most mac users dont need more then 3 extra slots. If your going to upgrade the video card then take out the old one. Besides, most PC's only have 3 or 4 pci slots anyway, and they ALWAYS have to be used for things like SCSI, Video, and the like, so I dont see what that one poster was complaining about. There are plenty of drive bays, and lots of space for ram(a gig of 100mhz 10ns ram sounds good to me). Finally, a well rounded machine from apple.
And lets here it for what should be the BEST implementation of OpenGL.
"Stuff... In my home!? NEVER!" - Zim on Invader Zim
"I want the toilet seat!" - Little Dog on Two Stupid Dogs
Really, I'm sick of this crap. Unless it's related to Linux/PPC or m68k or something similar, I'm just not interested. Apple is a bunch of mindless, heartless bastards and I will have nothing to do with them. Their systems suck now, and will always suck, and their proprietary, unethical business model sickens me.
Okay, done now.
I *REALLY* doubt that MacOS X Server is targetted
at the Linux-community either... It's more likely
targetted at those NT-heads that run companies
where the CEO's want NT and the tech-support
and everyone else doesn't...
Well, those who already have a Apple Bus Mouse II
can continue using it with their new computer...
So, where's the problem?
No sound cards for the Mac? I use a Korg 1212 in my G3 300mhz machine for digital audio work and am pumping out 48 discrete channels of audio with many complex effects, all in extremely pristine quality. I write music, mix and master CDs right in the machine! The Korq has analog, SPDIF and LightPipe IO and rocks the world of just about anyone who hears it. The 1212 is only one of many options, as well. The Mac is the best machine for digital audio work, imnsho, and I've tried three major platforms extensively.
The 1212 sounds w-a-y better than the built-in set. Still, the stock sound system blows Windows "standards" out of the water.
Razor
Razor Blue, TechnoMage
shackled to tranquility / silenced for eternity / four walls no windows /
the title says it all:
What's up with MacOS X server for x86?
The base price of the Mac OS X Server is $4999. That's the system he was refering to. The base price of the new G3 is $1599.
SteveM
That will be the key to making this thing fly, if you ask me. Most users couldn't care less--unless they run into problems--what video chipset their computer uses, what the speed of the system bus is, what kind of RAM, etc., etc.--they just want it to work and meet the demands they place on it. With users being able to simply install memory upgrades, expansion cards, etc., without having to deal with a "black-box" case that's bolted shut like a tv set (and "therefore" requires you to pay for some pimple-studded wanna-be geek from CompostUSA to come over to your house an hour later than scheduled, stare lustfully at your daughter, frighten the cat, enrage the dog, leave footprints on your new carpet, and then spend five minutes actually doing the upgrade . . .)is a HUGE step in the right direction. It helps to demystify an aspect of personal computing that I've always hated--from the standpoint of a general user, at least.
What's more--and don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking PC hardware itself in any way--but there is simply NO PC out there that I can think of that even comes close to being truly "user-friendly" in this way. (Coupled with Windoze what you usually get is user-nightmarish.)
Aside, the case's appearance . . . well, it looks pretty damned ugly, if you ask me. But hey, I thought the iMac was an eye-sore when it first appeared, but, well . . . now I have one and . . . it grows on you. (Wish I'd gotten a purple or green or orange one, though--ah well.)
Considering WebObjects is around $1K and ASIP is around $500, it's a good deal for THAT bundle. But I wish they'd sell it without all that stuff (price around $100?). Oh, well...
That's what this is all about: making Mac hardware the best deal for running WebObjects (for, say, low to medium range systems).
but OSX (non-server) should give you all that good stuff and should sell for ~$100. 3rd or 4th qtr, 1999
c'mon...Mesa is a bunch of freeware crap, just like linux. :o\ If Linux were as bug-ridden as you make it sound then I would have trashed it already and went back to (eek!) microsoft.
:o)
Hm, so you're saying Linux is crap as well. That's about the worst insult of all kinds.
I've never ever used an Apple product for the Macintosh that could ever even remotely be described as buggy.
And, having used a mac myself for a few years, you notice the MacOS has it's bugs as well. Multitasking is OK, but could use a lot of work, because even in 64 megs of ram, Netscape (albeit probably a pretty buggy piece of software in and of itself) continued to barf on me and crash the whole system. If the multitasking were implemented properly, it wouldn't have brought the whole system behind it when it went bonkers.
Once Quake3 is out there, everyone in the world will see that Macs are the best gaming platform.
I'll believe it when i see it. And, just because the Mac gets one more game doesn't make it the best gaming platform. It's like saying that Linux is the best server platform. I'm sorry, but I see better all the time, mainly in the *BSD area. Perhaps Apple will find something good with OS X server
Dogma: Dead (mostly because your Karma ran it over)
c'mon...Mesa is a bunch of freeware crap, just like linux. :o\ If Linux were as bug-ridden as you make it sound then I would have trashed it already and went back to (eek!) <gag>microsoft</gag>.
:o)
Hm, so you're saying Linux is crap as well. That's about the worst insult of all kinds.
I've never ever used an Apple product for the Macintosh that could ever even remotely be described as buggy.
And, having used a mac myself for a few years, you notice the MacOS has it's bugs as well. Multitasking is OK, but could use a lot of work, because even in 64 megs of ram, Netscape (albeit probably a pretty buggy piece of software in and of itself) continued to barf on me and crash the whole system. If the multitasking were implemented properly, it wouldn't have brought the whole system behind it when it went bonkers.
Once Quake3 is out there, everyone in the world will see that Macs are the best gaming platform.
I'll believe it when i see it. And, just because the Mac gets one more game doesn't make it the best gaming platform. It's like saying that Linux is the best server platform. I'm sorry, but I see better all the time, mainly in the *BSD area. Perhaps Apple will find something good with OS X server
And bah! Damn thing sucked up all of my HTML tags, oh well.
Dogma: Dead (mostly because your Karma ran it over)
does that pc include a monitor and ethernet?
Last year, ATI became the #1 graphics chip maker before Rage 128 was even released. Why? For companies that have to design motherboards and systems with a graphics chip integrated, performance is only one part of the equation. For instance, ATI's customer service and engineering support for those kinds of companies is among the very best in the business. They also have a lot of other business pluses that made them number one even though S3, 3DFX and Nvidia (sp?) put out Savage3D, Banshee/Voodoo II and RIVA TNT before Rage 128 came out.
What I'm basically saying is, Apple has different needs compared to end users, so they have to choose for different reasons too. There's more to it than just raw perfomance.
-- John Truong
It also allows other Macs to boot up from it. Steve Demonstrated a (drive-less) iMac booting directly from a server over 100base-T. It was very fast.
The cost is for the server with unlimited clients. Microsoft charges per seat, don't they? If so, this would be a substantial price break over NT servers.
I saw two VW Beetle's at Macworld Expo today that looked like iMacs. I beleive there is company giving them a way as a promotion. They looked pretty cool...but I'm not sure I would want to be seen on the road with one of them.
The ability to get into the computer with a touch of a button is very cool. Just push..and the motherboards and bays become instantly available. Here's a picture in case you haven't seen it.
I thought Apple would bundle MkLinux with these machines.
I agree. I had heard that the case was going to be like that of the 8600/9600 models but dark translucent blue. That would have been cool. Though the case Apple used does look strangely good somehow...however the keyboard and mouse have to go. My friend got an iMac when they first came out and I never could get the hang of the mouse, he says he likes it though...Judging from its specs thougt, Apple should sell them like hotcakes.
2) The demo of OS X Server was very quick but impressive. ...but booting 50 iMac's off the stock PowerMac running the server stands as one of the better demo's I've seen.
I think that there was a Partial error of ommission. Fast well designed network for the demo. Catch the mention of four 100-baseT ports, all slots filled. Probably on a switched fabric, too. Raid array.
> "Ours does what their's does for a LOT less!"
No, your's doesn't.
DPS
Objective-C runtime
NetInfo
Mach
WebObjects
Quality user interface (- IMHO)
Linux ain't bad, but it ain't OpenStep.
JFB
To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
Look, don't embarass yourself. You've never seen OpenStep, have you?
/at all/ like WebObjects. Linux has nothing like Application or Interface Builder.
Linux doesn't have the Next Objective-C runtime. Nothing that runs on Linux doesn't support DPS as an imaging model. Linux on Mach doesn't support zone memory allocation, Mach messaging, Mach ports. Linux web tools are nothing
Linux is fine for what it is, but the $999 gets you a considerably more mature OS. Linux has wonderful tools, but the whole is less than the sum of the parts.
I'll concede the point about UI, as that is highly subjective.
JFB
To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
Ok, a little clarification is needed...
1) There are four not three PCI slots. The fourth slot is a high speed PCI slot which contains the ATI card. If you want to replace the video, replace the card. Otherwise, try out dual-monitor support... it's a hell of a lot better on the Mac.
2) Yes, you'd have to take a slot for the SCSI controller, but EIDE is on the motherboard if speed isn't as big of a deal. Plus, now that Apple is shipping a viable machine with FireWire, high end devices should start appearing (ie, Hard Drives, CDR, etc).
3) Thanks to the iMac, more USB devices exist than did before.
4) I don't think you'll ever find a Mac user that has upgraded or had to upgrade their sound card. That's because it's a part of the Mac chipset and has been standard for quite a long time. Heck, even the original Mac can play sampled sound quite nicely.
This is a awesome machine. Apple has finally addressed the big issues that needed to be addressed. This machine comes standard with 64 megs of RAM. A kick ass video card. 100 megabit Ethernet. 100 mhz bus. And the list goes on. And the price is amazing for what you're getting. Just try to get a name brand PC for that price. The last time I checked, Compaq had a PII 450 with some of the features, but surely not the video card, of the new G3 and it was in the $2100 price range.
dennis
The specs have
3 33Mhz 64bit PCI slots
1 64Mhz 32bit PCI slot for the ATI 128 card.
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
-Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
>Companies that stay in a niche market -- that do one thing and do it well -- are commendable and rare.
Thats because they always get taken over by the big guys. Take GoLive, they just got bought by Adobe. Apple know it can never be as big as MS. As Steve said, they (Apple) are just trying to make the best damn computers in the world, for a price. Apple could make computers that cained anything out there on the market, but you would pay BIG bucks for them. I think Apple should be commended for producing the machines they do.
As for advertising, show me ONE company that does not bend the facts in their favour when doing public demostrations and tv comercials.
I am particularly humored by Apple announcements on Slashdot because no matter how much people hate/love Apple and their products nothing, and I mean NOTHING gets a bunch of computer geeks talking like a company who is really doing something to change the industry, especially this company.
Pentiums in office PCs four times its price
Sorry, but I can't even find an office PC that costs $4800, unless its a server. And while that 266Mhz G3 might be faster than the 266Mhz Cyrix in a $400 PC, I suspect it would be sadly embarrased by a 450Mhz PII. Yeah, they got pretty colors, but if they want to maintain some semblance of credibility, they should install some bullshit filters on their marketing dept. output!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
A Celeron 333 system from Dell with comparable features (except for bigger 8.4 GByte hard drive) costs $1268. Congratulations to Apple for bringing the price of a Mac down to the same price as a PC, but I certainly wouldn't call these puppies less expensive than a PC!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
The quote I questioned was in reference to the iMac at $1199. There is a significant leap from "a G3 400 is twice as fast as a Pentium II 450" to "a G3 266 is faster that the Dual PII 450 system you could buy for $4800". I love the Power PC and I'm sure it is faster than a Pentium II at a given clock rate. However, I see no evidence the the disk, video, or bus are any faster than a comparable PC, and the video is slower than most PCs. Which means in real life, you should see little difference between an iMac and a comparably priced PC. I like Apple and like to see them succeed. I just have a problem with them trying to bullshit me. Certainly, you misunderstood my statements; what exactly in it do you consider FUD? What part of is is less accurate than the Apple Marketing hype?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
What planet have you been living on? The Celeron 300A, 333, 366, and 400 ALL have onboard cache. Which is not to say that it's a better processor than a power PC (it isn't). Next time, check your facts before you make an ass of yourself in public.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
That's based on a Dell Dimension V 333Mhz Celeron. Yes, I added the 10/100 ethernet card, and the monitor was included. I reduced the RAM from the standard 64MB to 32MB to equal the iMac. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a disk any smaller than 8.4 GBytes. Oh, and of course the PC has a floppy drive! And yes, saying a 333 Mhz Celeron is "comparable" is probably cheating, but I haven't seen any benchmark results that I trust yet. Anyway, the point was that the iMac and the PC are approximately equivalent in price/performance, therefore it is misleading to keep implying the the iMac is somehow a better value than a PC.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
You're looking at "Multi", the most lovable robotic girl to come along since Vicki from the 80's sitcom "Small Wonder". She comes from a Windows 95 video game called "To Heart". She is EXTREMELY popular in Japan, particularly among geeks (otakus ^_^). The idea is, I guess, that BeOS is so wonderful that even Multi's CPU runs it. I wonder if that means that Leaf will be doing a BeOS port of "To Heart". If so, then that would be Totally Cool(tm).
The Japanese text reads "BeOS hayatsu pari Maruchi de!" My Japanese is Not Good. I guess it means "BeOS is fast enough for Multi". Anyone wanna help out?