Slashdot Mirror
BBC on Gnome & Interview Miguel
Evil Greeb writes "The BBC have written a fairly pro-Linux article, citing Gnome as "the operating system which could loosen Microsoft's stranglehold on the market". I thought it was a desktop environment myself, but that's not the issue: Linux promotion is! The page includes an audio snippet of Miguel de Icaza on Gnome. " Excellent-now if my Gnome-session would just run properly.
I found these new RPMs, they work great:
. 0/contrib-updates/
/usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/NEWRPMFILE(s)
ftp://ftp.inconnect.com/pub/unix/linux/redhat-6
Here is the README
=======
RedHat isn't always the speediest at releasing general RPM updates
unless there is a security hole.
Because of that, here are updated RedHat-6.0 rpms that use the spec
files from RedHat modified to use the new version. Any RedHat patches
included in the orignal rpm have been updated/checked/discarded if need be.
The idea is to have these updated RPMs built how RedHat would've built them.
I built these on a RedHat 6.0 box (glibc 2.1), so if you have RedHat 5.x (glibc2.0)
you might want to get the SRPM file instead and do:
rpm --rebuild SRPMFILE, and then rpm -Uvh
Lastly, it seems some gnome apps get a little testy when the find configs from
older versions. gnome-session and gmc are good examples. After you upgrade the RPMs
if you have problems ("core" files, weirdness, etc), delete the old configs and let the
new software recreate updated configs. For example, on one of my boxes I had to do:
rm -rf ~/.gnome/sess*
rm -rf ~/.gnome/gmc*
Dax Kelson
=========
: At least on /., the GNOME/KDE flamewars finally : cool off and then Miguel has to go and say : stupid something like this! :(
Bah. He stated his opinion. He's allowed to do that, isn't he? Just because his opinion touches a hot topic, should we put him under a gag order?
If that's the case places like slashdot should be shut down entirely. Sorry, I'm just tired of people tiptoeing around afraid to speak because they might be branded "offensive".
Can you tell I've been reading Neal Stephenson?
Yes, Qt has C bindings, it's called QtC. The only thing I know about it is that nobody uses it, because C++ is better for GUI programming than plain C. IMHO the only importance of QtC is the fact that it shows that Qt can have as many bindings as gtk.
As a note to that loading of C++ libraries, I don't think that loading 0.25MB library in memory can have significant performance impact on the system ( yes, my stripped libstdc++ is 0.25MB ). Moreover, not all the dynamic C++ library will get pulled into memory, only those parts of it that are needed.
I just don't understand how they dare to put words 'modest Miguel' just few lines above all the FUD.
"It started off as a component model," says Miguel, "So you could write small modules to build bigger applications, but the GUI thing just took off."
Is it me, or has GNOME never been based around "component model"? I have yet to see an application that uses CORBA for GNOME. GNOME was always based around GTK+/glib. Their purpose was "KDE was not free".. so GNOME was born. They always had the GUI in mind. It didn't "just take off". Miguel makes it sound as if GNOME was really a Network Object Model Environment long before they used GUI. This is pure BS.
I'm not even going into the other statement that disrespects KDE authors. Many people have already picked up on that.
He was GNU/Yawning!
*wheee!*
'"I don't think KDE has a future at this point, it's not completely free yet and it's bound to a single programming language in Unix. Gnome from the very beginning has been accessible through any language. We are providing the GUI for all the languages and programmers can choose the language they like the most," says Miguel'
Has he been horribly misquoted, or did he _really_ mean this?? Since when has Gnome been accessible through Fortran? Each system is authored in one core language (C or C++) with bindings at various levels for other languages (Perl, Python, etc). Geez.. Maybe more of the Gnome API is available to more languages, but that hardly makes the above comment accurate.
There are two big pieces to a desktop environment, that distinguish it from a window manager.
It has a set of UI guidelines that conformant programs follow as closely as possible.
For example, on Win95, hitting Alt-F4 will kill just about any Windows applictation, and every menu bar has to have a File option -- these are the sorts of things that Windows applications are (theoretically) required to follow.
It has a set of guidlines for exposing component interfaces that conformant programs follow as closely as possible.
The advantage of having a component architecture is that it makes it *much* easier to script programs (because the scripting language bindings become simple to implement), and because it makes it easier for programmers to allow different programs to interact. For example, a programmer writing a word-processor could let users put charts into a document whose appearance is dynamically calculated from the spreadsheet, without knowing how the spreadsheet is implemented -- all he needs are the component interfaces. Think of it as Unix pipes on steroids and growth hormones, and you'll have some idea of why component models are so cool.
Also, a DE usually contains a set of libraries and applications to make adhering to the first two much easier.
For example, KDE uses the QT widget library to expose a set of UI elements to make it easier for programs to look and behave like KDE apps. Gnome uses GTK. Likewise, KOM/OpenParts (for KDE) and Baboon (for GNOME) are the component APIs that programs have to honor to be well-behaved KDE or GNOME apps.
That's all there is to it, really. A window manager doesn't do these two things; all it does is manage the decorations on the windows. (Well, there's ICCCM, but it is at once hideously overengineered and utterly inadequate for specifying UI behaviors....)
However, note that the big interoperability problem between GNOME and KDE isn't the UI; Unix users have been dealing with wildly different-looking GUI programs for years.
Instead, the problem is that the component specs are different, which means it will be a lot harder to write programs that mix components from the two environments. For example, it will be unneccesarily messy to (say) write a script that uses KIllustrator to draw a chart from data in a Gnumeric spreadsheet unless the KDE and GNOME teams figure out a clean way of bridging their two component models.
Fortunately, both of these are free software, so if they don't want, someone else will be able to. (It would have *legendary* hack value, if that someone is reading and needs encouragement. :)
That's just not true.
Posted by kmad:
You are exactly right Mr. LizardKing. It would certainly make since to work towards making your desktop of choice as good as you can, rather than wasting energy on pointing out the shortcomings of a desktop you don't like. Nothing like a good bit of competition to bring out the best. Of course there is usually only one winner, but you can always start another race!
>"I don't think KDE has a future at this point,
/., the GNOME/KDE flamewars finally cool off and then Miguel has to go and say stupid something like this! :(
>it's not completely free yet and it's bound to a
>single programming language in Unix. Gnome from
>the very beginning has been accessible through >any language. We are providing the GUI for
>all the languages and programmers can choose
>the language they like the most," says Miguel.
At least on
KDE and GNOME are both very nice( I use pieces
from both ) and there is no need for either team
to make inflammatory statements like this. Let
the kiddies fight this psuedo-debate out in the
middle school lunch room. GNOME rocks! KDE rocks!
But having a choice rocks even more!
Thanks, that should fix some of my Gnome issues. I've been running KDE+Windomaker because of some Gnome wonkiness.
I browse with my threshold at 2 so I can't read my own comments :-)
On the contrary ORBit wasn't built with speed as an objective. That was a pleasant side effect.
/mill
In one of his talks in Denmark Miguel said that Elliott Lee's benchmarking of the different Free ORBs showed ORBit to be the fastest. Allegedly by a wide margin.
I wrote them (in a week, if I may brag a bit).
They are for Qt 1.33, but they should work on Qt 1.44, only be incomplete.
It's not the best binding possible (not even close), but I did it to win an argument.
http://ultra7.unl.edu.ar look for qtc
There is a very small subset of the KDE functionality that requires a KDE aware window manager.
There are several KDE aware window managers, including window maker.
The situation is not very different from GNOME's. (Hell, I can't find *any* difference)
Current KDE development versions do require, and use, MICO.
In any case, the only thing GNOME 1.0 used ORBit for was panel applets, which can be almost as easily built without it (as proven by WM and AS).
GNOME 1.0's usage of CORBA is somewhere between the toy and overkill levels.
Only *now* are rumours about a Real Soon Now release of the GNOME document model, which KDE has had for about a year, just to mention one of the uses of CORBA that do make sense.
Most KDE apps require only that you have kdelibs installed.
Some will also require that you are running kfm at the moment of using them, because that enables them to be network transparent, and things like that.
Some (very very few) will require that you are running a KDE aware window manager (for example, kpager dos this), but that still doesn't force you to use kwm, either.
... why do you believe that sensessly bashing another free software project is "ok"?
If that's his opinion, my opinion is that he is about as immature as they come, which is his right, and that immature people of his age are sadly too common.
Then again, that's something I have suspected for quite a while.
And everyone, please remember this the next time someone says "KDE people" go around bashing GNOME.
KDE and Gnome are not window managers (though KDE does come with one).
Both of these are, at heart, suites of applications and libraries. The applications are there to make the user experience easier; examples are the file managers and the panels of each. The libraries are there for two purposes: to provide a consistent look and feel, and to help applications written for a given desktop environment to interact with one another, thereby providing a more seamless experience.
My choice: Gnome, with KDE's libs also installed.
Why does not running kwm defeat the object? Gnome doesn't have a window manager and KDE without kwm becomes the same thing.
I never understood why people think KDE or GNOME looks better. In their default state they look pretty similar to me. I run both and find
GNOME much more primitive than KDE though it is kinda cute for some reason I haven't quite fathomed yet.
Regards
Or the Sahara Desert
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
One thing about Miguel is that he is not afraid to speak his mind. He'll always say what he believes for example at the Netproject conference in London he was quoted as saying 'TCL was a mistake which shouldn't have happened'. Some people will disagree strongly with this statement but others won't.
Being able to speak you mind is a good thing so he shouldn't be criticised for it. He also makes an interesting speaker as I found out when he went to London.
--
I've been wondering this also. I've noticed there are a whole slew of k apps nowadays, are these apps only runnable in the kde environment? And wouldn't that be a bad thing considering the k programs would require someoe to have kde therefor lowering our ability to have choice?
No, as long as you have kdelibs installed, almost all K apps will work fine. My current setup of choice is kfm running inside WindowMaker and a mix of KDE and GNOME utilities.
Incidentally, I found this article abysmal. The "GNOME operating system" bit is laughable and I thought Miguel came off like the Ed Muth of Linux.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
There's some info here:- announce-list/1999-April/0028.shtml
m e-mailer-list/
http://www.gnome.org/mailing-lists/archives/gnome
Here's the mailing list archive:
http://www.gnome.org/mailing-lists/archives/gno
Have you checked out ORBit-C++ from the gnome cvs?
--Karl
It is no surprise to me that BBC News manage to get their OSes and Desktop Environments mixed up. Their 'Internet correspondent' Chris Nuttall is not totally clued up. However they're trying which is good, but Mr NUttall reponds well to people telling him what to say (he'll gladly report what he sees on newsgroups blindly on the New web site) so if you want to get more good press at theBBC then talk to him about Linux more, get him to recognise the benfits of it and show him interesting stuff that mainstream news can cover.
In my personal tests, both environments take about the same amount of RAM and are equally responsive. gnome looks much better than kde, imho, but kde seems more usable at this time. Now that I got gnome working, tho, I'll actually have to try using it.
Licensing/language/political crap aside, 2 desktop environments that are making progress, are usable, and aren't going away anytime soon. I see myself (someday) running a combination of the 2, with still a butt-load of rxvt's up.
Right now, I'm using AfterStep 1.0 (with the 1.6 Wharf), because it Works For Me(tm).
--
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
dude, get off of your high horse.
If i was working on soem project, and people saw me as the guy behind the project (for whatever reason). and they asked me a question on my opinion on a particular topic, what do you want me to do? call a fricking conference? shit, i will say what i believe. As long as what i say is correct, to hell with who gets burnt. Go ask linus to check his comments. Miguel did not appoint himself as "spokesman", the media did. If you don't like what he says, then don't listen to it.
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
I suppose he is going to promote Gnome over KDE, but his comments are a little inflammatory. I use Gnome nad Linux at home, and KDE and FreeBSD at work, and have to admit that KDE is far more stable at the moment than Gnome. I prefer GTK+ to Qt, but that's simply because I prefer C to C++. So before the flame war starts, lets remember that KDE and Gnome promote healthy competition on the Linux desktop - something the Windows world sadly lacks.
Chris Wareham
Some of us arent't running stale RPMS.
/usr/local, including the compiler and binutils.)
[To Malda]
Don't feel bad dewd. It's not just you. Gnome-session is quite a bit broken. Calling gnome a one-point-oh release was simply a big mistake. It's still at about zero-point-nine-two IMHO. The best thing I can suggest is to rebuild gnome-libs-1.0.9 to the latest (and the rest of the stuff to latest versions actually) from source, and then add a line before it in your ~/.xinitrc to delete the stale ~/.gnome/.gnome-smproxy-* file that screws things up horribly. By doing that I have at least gotten it to reliably start the panel (but I still have to use mini-commander to start E).
I will say this though, if you never logout of X and just use the screen locker, it seems to be less of a problem that gnome-session never seems to be able to start everything right without 'rm -rf ~/.gnome', and a *very* pleasing to the eye desktop.
(Please folks, don't waste your time and mine making guesses as to "non-standard" installation locations. Everything was built with the default prefix of
Or ATM machine, or the LaBrea Tar Pits. :)
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
"A community is where people sharing a common interest (supposedly) and fighting for the same cause, all band together and fight as one."
... the chances that you can get large segments of the population to agree on much of anything is fairly low. Chances are that multiple politics, languages, and belief systems will be co-existing. This co-existence is usually peaceful. Sometimes it isn't. TLawful conflict generates what tomorrow looks like. The change fuels development.
That sounds more like a corporation than a community to me.
Corporations have a bottom line to take care of, and everything and everybody revolves around that.
Communities are diverse, often to polar extremes. Take any given country as a community
If they were all the same, what would the point be? Social stasis is a form of mass insanity, IMHO.
"The purpose of argument is to change the nature of truth." -- Bene Gesserit Precept
Hm. Well, I've discovered that the best thing to do with gnome-session is give it a "--purge-delay=2500" argument. That at least gets everything started...
This is from gnome-core 1.0.5, though- I do remember previous gnome-sessions being *hideously* flaky.
And the whole shebang about trying to start a default window manager sensibly... .
-- i will protect you from ideals to save you from defeat
I am very upset by what I've just read. If Miguel genuinely made those derogatory comments about KDE then he needs to be replaced as the mouth piece for the GNOME project until he learns that the position of spokesperson carries responsibility.
His comments about KDE are factually incorrect, immature and go great damage to the work people have put in to build peace between the two camps.
When I get home tonight I will be writing to the BBC with a rebutal of Miguels comments.
Macka
Gnome had to do a lot more stuff "from scratch" and made its own implementation of Corba and rebuilt GTK. That, given that KDE also had a head start makes complete sense why things aren't as far in the Gnome camp.
Uh no. Not hardly. Gnome was forced to make their own implementation of anything and everything only by their egos. They appear want to reinvent the wheel, and take the credit, shunning any other opensource project as being invalid for some petty reason.
Why should a knee-jerk reaction be given time to catch up?
The reason things aren't as far in the Gnome "camp" is because Miguel et. al. appear to be against cooperation with anyone else. It's either their way or none at all, which is really quite sad. I hold out hope that the respective DOMs will eventually be somewhat compatable, but I sure doubt that'll happen anytime soon.
The revolution will be mocked
Your statement reiterates my point. KDE is just now adding CORBA as part of the standard desktop environment.
So what?
It is a testament to the speed of ORBit that it can be used for such mundane tasks without a major increase in overhead.
Have you actually used the Gnome panel? The only noticible impact I saw that CORBA had on the panel was that debugging applets became amazingly more complex, and gdb became a maze of ORBit calls. Yeah, that's something to be proud of.
CORBA is trendy, for sure, but that doesn't make it suitable for everything. CORBA, yes even ORBit, is far from lightweight, and putting it in places where a lightweight IPC service is needed really does nobody any favors.
The revolution will be mocked
Steven,
Miguel may have come across as a nice guy, but nice guys do not trash compedetors, they do not spread lies, and all around bullshit. Your loyalties are clear, and you'll backup Miguel no matter what. Blind faith is overrated.
As for your choice of Gnome, IMO you're choosing it for the wrong reasons. Gnome is *not* portable, and in fact I've had a bitch of a time getting it to compile on FreeBSD. FWIW, I think that Gnome has used CORBA in the wrong places. CORBA is a heavy "standard", and putting it to use on the panel is like driving an SUV in the city. It's insane.
But then, CORBA should promote compatibility, right? Wrong. Gnome has chosen to create its own standards, the whole project is a reinvent the wheel type of situation. For instance check out Bonbo or watever it's called and take a look at KOM/OpenParts. Which one has been around longer? Oh yeah, KOM/OpenParts. I don't know really how one can be CORBA compliant. Take a look at Konqueror, KWord, KSpread, etc, etc, they all make strong use of CORBA. Aw hell just sit on the kde-devel list for a while, or read the archives to perhaps get a more accurate opinion.
You obviously don't care to get your facts straight or present an objective opinion, please don't disguise it as such.
The revolution will be mocked
Are you kidding me? You are a fucking idiot.
:)) refuse to consider cooperation.
Gnome was knee-jerk, Baboon besides being a moronic name is also a clear statement of how the Gnome folks (Thanks Miguel, yo te amo tambien
A desktop is a big project, and settling sucks, re-inventing the wheel sucks, you suck, but working together to come up with an even better standard would just rock. Oh yeah, I forgot, Gnome is purely the domain of pre-pubescent males trying to be all l33t. Get over yourself.
Dude. Get your head out of your fucking shithole before you open your mouth. Otherwise you'll end up with a mouthful of crap like you seem to have done. You're calling KDE a rushed relase? Yeah, that's it. Have you even tried to use the Gnome 1.0.0 release? The only thing that sucks more is the whole poorly engineered libcs that Linux distributions appear to be stuck with. KDE 1.0 was *hardly* hurried.
The revolution will be mocked
Miguel,
:-)
I don't know what part of cooperation is really so hard for you to grasp. I am for the most part at a loss for words to describe how disappointed I am in you. But who knows, perhaps your spewage has actual factual basis. So in the spirit of healthy competition, I'd like to see you and *only* you post a reply, and back up your statements. Put your money where your mouth is, and not your foot this time. Tell me, why does KDE have no future? Is the KDE userbase declining? Is egcs going to drop C++ support? Is someone paying RedHat? Do tell, this is the information age after all. Comming by such information shouldn't be hard.
P.S. I'm not interested in hearing what half of the population infected with Linux thinks. Really I'm not; and just because I'm curious, doesn't mean that I think Miguel is any less of a complete fucking moron. Ohh hey, I spoke my mind! Do I have *your* admiration now too? I'm unifying me, myself and I against Gnome; that's gotta count for something.
The revolution will be mocked
On the whole, not an entirely unclueful article. The bit about Gnome being an OS caused a few twinges, but I can see how they might state it that way to get the point across in 25 words or less.
Now... where did I put that flame-resistant keyboard?
--
--
The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
Slashdot may not have covered the T-Shirts but they did have a story about KDE Konqi the dragon as their Logo. I've never noticed any bias in the stories posted about GUIs on Slashdot
I've been wondering this also. I've noticed there are a whole slew of k apps nowadays, are these apps only runnable in the kde environment? And wouldn't that be a bad thing considering the k programs would require someoe to have kde therefor lowering our ability to have choice?
I know that Gnome is not an OS. I know KDE is not an OS, I know the X Window System is not an OS, but am a little confused about what GNOME and KDE are.
They are desktop environments. OK, does that mean they are Windows Managers (like FVWM)? Or are they something else?
I haven't yet gotten into the GUI side yet, I'm still delighting at being back at the command-prompt after suffering Bindows 95 for so long (and yes,I know the prompt is accessible under 95)
~ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity ~
Give Gnome some time and I think it will catch up. Justt don't bash Gnome for not getting as much done. Remember what happened last time Gnome tried to catch up with KDE, (version 1.00?).
--
I don't know the details of the different object models but neither does anyone else because Baboon isn't out yet so I wouldn't snap to some kind "knee-jerk" conclusion.
A desktop is a big project and I don't think settling for second best would be a good idea being that so many things depend on that part. There are no deadlines so they don't need to hurry to completion like propietary platforms do (or KDE*).
* Sorry for the cheapshot. Couldn't resist.
--
(Man, I think the Gnome web pages are the best looking ones on the net.) Im looking forward to this. I see what KDE is doing and can't help but think Windows on Linux. Web Browser in the Filemanager and an integrated Office suit. Im just looking forward to a viable free office suit for gnome desktop.
--
--
I've read quite a few of miguels articles.. i really thought this BS talking was over. They're friends now right? Working together for KDE / GNOME integration? hah. Every time miguel gets to talk to the public he has his own 'opinion' about KDE.. the article/press release is about GNOME.. why dont he just talk about GNOME? Why does he have to butt in his negative $0.02 about KDE? .. i've been out of highschool for 10 years now.. but i can think back and remember jocks, and preppies talking down cause of what clothes i wore, or how i talked, or who i hung out with.. was this also to be praised? 'THE JOCKS RULE, THEY HAVE AN OPINION IM A LOSER AND CAN SAY IT' yes that is so right huh? Wow look.. its 10 years later im making 100k a year and they're working at gas stations (yes ive seen them there pumping gas).. so how does this work with the topic? Keep bashing KDE everytime your asked to do a press release/article.. keep on slamming, one day you're going to turn around.. and wonder how come you failed. You'll think.. but i was popular! people cheered me on! then it'll hit you.. damn it was just an image.. an outward appearance. Keep on talking smack about KDE, but you should be wary of it.. at the least when 'users' try to switch and get frustrated with GNOME they'll go to KDE where they feel at home, so in that you only cut your own gnomey throat.. but think of worst case.. you belittle and FUD KDE so that no new person tries it first and they try gnome.. uh oh, it dont work like what they're used to.. they get upset, dump linux all together and go back to win9x with an awful taste in their mouth.. now you've not only cut your own throat, but you've cut linux's too.. All because miguel is such a great guy that can speak his mind right.. er OPINIONS not facts or anything else but biased opinions. *shrug* you can only kick a dog so much until it turns on you.
I've read all these posts concerning the article, applauding miguel on his ability to speak his mind.. that is such a great thing eh? To have an opinion such as his and be able to speak it. Forget about who it hurts and what damage it does to both KDE and GNOME projects. This is what you all call 'a good thing' right? heh. if we go off of that and believe it, then really i think you're cutting your own throats (the gnome folks)
Please excuse my malformed sentenses, mispelling and any other grammar errors. thank you =)
That's their 'freedom'. They are 'free' to do whatever the heck they feel like that includes, bashing, spreading fud, maiming, beating, cursing, drinking beer, drugs, bed wetting.. whatever someone tells them is cool.
/ran/ linux.. does that mean you dont run it anymore? thats a real shame! what made you stop? Im not gonna bad mouth you for leaving linux that is your 'choice' and 'freedom', anyone telling you differnt are once again contradicting the same thing they continue to preach.
You said you're ashamed you ever
You have a point, they dont even know the name of their 'OS'. Heck they cant see beyond their little imaginative worlds that they've created to even know what it is they're fighting for. Me? i dont run linux, i think its a gay little toy. - hey look ma, i spoke my opinion. Anyways, you are so right!!!!!!!!!!
wow. this gets more amazing everyday. Here you have what the linux users call themselves a 'community'. well, hate to break the news people, but if this is a community, then it's a pretty distorted one. A community is where people sharing a common interest (supposedly) and fighting for the same cause, all band together and fight as one. But this is not the case in the so called 'linux community' you all so cherish. you have all the little groupies split into different sections bad-mouthing the others, and yet you hope to succeed. sorry, but if you to acheive a goal, you have to all band together and help one another and be one loud voice.
yah, you have the freedom to choose between GNOME or KDE, or windowmaker, or fvwm, or whatever you wish to use. But how does 'linux' wish to acheive 'world domination' when they can't even get along within their own little group. Hell, you can't even decide between a name to call the 'OS' you are fighting for!
I'm almost ashamed to say I ever ran linux, or is it GNU/Linux?
anyone know what they were talking about?
url?
I Think That You Need To STOP Bad Mouthing Miguel...There Is Absolutly NOTHING Wrong With Him. He's A Really Nice Guy, So Why Don't You Just Leave Him Alone?!
And to top it off you will not give us your name...you need help!
You use windows dont you?
--
Alex,
Sorry you feel so strongly against Miguel. I met him at the Linux World Expo back in March. He was smart, active, and an all around "nice guy". I've had some correspondence with him via email and he actually returned my messages that same day! He does a lot for the open source community so please, don't insult him.
As for KDE-GNOME, I have picked GNOME for one reason. CORBA. GNOME is based on CORBA standards, so that it will be portable to other platforms and can interface with other applications that are CORBA compliant. This is a disadvantage to KDE, since it is not CORBA compliant, and I don't see any change for the future. Although if this does change, I will review it too.
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
In any community (and yes, there is a Linux community and it's a healthy one) where you have multiple choises in any matter there is bound to become different "groups" that favor one or the other.
In addition to this, due to the uman nature of competition, there will be namecalling between the groups.
Since this is still a fairly young isssue there will perobably take years before all the namcalling stops, and even then there will probably be some animosity between the GNOME and KDE developers.
It's a sad thing to see, but it happens all the time and everywhere.
Currently, my setup looks absolutely nothing like Windows whatsoever, and it is also not running on Linux. Also, the work on KDE 2.0 is seriously awesome, and I believe it looks much better than GNOME, and is already much more portable than GNOME is.
Every issue, time magazine runs an interesting little tech snippet at the very end. In the latest issue, there is an article about linux that seems pretty OK. The author talks about waiting for gnome to be released before deciding to try linux (KDE duh!). There is also an email address at the end. Could someone post it so that we can help the guy out with his linux install/search for linux apps? It is a multi part article and who knows.. he might say something about slashdot in time!
>What we need is a GUI, API, libraries environment
>that at least suck less than Windows 1.0.
Windows 1.0 was primitive. Have you ever written
anything for Windows 1.0? Actually, does anyone
know of someone outside of Microsoft who has? If
Gnome was still worse than Windows 1.0 there'd be
no hope. Windows didn't take off till 3.0, six
years into development. After that long, either
Gnome or KDE will be really quite good.
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Blood is thicker than water...
Blood is thicker than water... Or at least it ought to be. It's one thing to take on Microsoft as the enemy. But when the fighting is internal, it's Linux that loses, not M$. Let KDE and GNOME take on M$ together, and give us a choice. How can we fault M$ for not giving us a choice, and then tear down one of our DEs because we have one too many? Once Linux has beaten M$, or at least achieved parity, then perhaps let the best DE win!
I would like to add what Mr. Torvalds once said. This might let some people cool down.
> Author: Linus Torvalds
> Email: torvalds@transmeta.com
> Date: 1998/11/22
> Forums: comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.x
>
> Peter A. Koren wrote:
>>
>> If I read the GNOME folks correctly, KDE essentially locks
>> you in to C++, while GNOME is architected to easily allow
>> other languages to be used for development under GNOME/GTK.
>> Is this really true? If so, the case favoring GNOME over KDE
>> would be compelling.
>
> I don't see why language is an issue at all.
>
> The kernel is coded in C, and I don't export any scheme or perl bindings
> for it. You have to code in C (or in assembly if you really really feel
> like it and want to punish yourself for some bad deed you have done) in
> order to write kernel code.
>
> Having one primary language has advantages: less confusion, and less
> overhead to maintain language-level abstractions.
>
> Haviung one primary langauge has it's disadvantages too: you have to use
> that language.
>
> I'm not saying that C++ is the only language to use, I'm just saying
> that you have to balance the advantages against the disadvantages. It
> all depends on what you want to do - saying that the language issue is
> "compelling" just doesn't make sense at all. It could be compelling in
> either way, and as such the compulsion isn't very real, is it?
[demands lean programing in both projects]
> Being too generic (in languages or features or design) often has its own
> set of serious downsides. Never _ever_ forget that.
>
> Linus