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Dell to offer Linux on Dimension Line
Quite a number of people have written in with the news that Dell is going to be expanding their Linux support. Beginning in October, they will be offering installation of Linux on their hugely popular Dimension Line of PCs-before this, it had only been offered on servers. Will this mean more competition for the VAs and Penguins?
You said it! I know a lot of people whose only excuse for clinging to Windoze is they don't want to give up Powerpoint. (Haven't convinced them to switch to StarOffice or such yet.) A Linux port of MSoffice would cost them a lot of Windoze dominance, so they'd only do it if StarOffice grabbed serious market share, and keeping Office dominant was more important to them than keeping Windows dominant.
I wish I'd bought a Dell; instead I bought a Micron because I thought that Dell was too cooperative with Microsoft. Mistake! Micron still refuses to support Linux. Last time I checked they actively supress the text string "linux" from the support site. Pehaps Micron feels that Microsoft will punish them if they escape justice in the courts. If that's so, then Dell is good guy.
Good for Dell; I will buy from them next time.
Viva la Revolucion!!!
i just hope that in the future, people won't be
like "Linux sold out" etc. heheh.
music industry: mainstream = "bad" = selling out
pc industry: mainstream = "good" = making money
Amtrak does not use OS/2, but what appears to be a variant of OS/2. I've seen one of those ticket machines 'break' so that the desktop underneath was revealed, and while it looked like Warp 4, it identified itself as OS/400 (no, not AS/400), I believe.
--Philip
"It's amazing how our industry is strewn with beautiful, dead technology and bitter engineers." --M. Huyck
h ttp://developer.redhat.com/certification/cert-repo rt.php3?mod_redhat_version=6.0
They ship with ONLY RH6.0 installed. No dual-boot available at this time. (SKirk@Dell)
Dell probably won't be as good as VA in some respects, but their support will probably be better. Remember that VA is using DecisionOne for their first line of tech support, and it's pretty tough to find people to say anything good about D1....
I'll be working in the Dell booth Tuesday 10am-2pm and then Wed from 2-6pm. --Steve--
I know they offer linux, but how many people does it take to put linux on a line of machines. I hope they keep up their high industry quality on these new machines.
If Linux continues to grow MS *will* port Office since the Office suite is their undisputed cash cow. Linux could wipe Windoze off the face of the earth but if Office is available for Linux MS will remain a huge player. MS currently does have a team looking at the possibility of a port, and the likelyhood of them doing it increases with announcements like Dell's.
I think the motherboard is designed by Dell, but Intel buys it from Dell later for their OEM boxes. There is a rumor going around that says, Intel is thinking of letting Dell design and build their OEM boxes.
Cool, this is enough for EU to take M$ to gallows..At least Dell is not liable..But M$ is..
It could be because AMD has a very poor track record in supplying chips in large quantities and regularly. You cannot build computers out of "HYPE"
if you read the article, it mentions the Linux laptops released at about the same time.
Ya know, I've always wondered why some rpm couldn't be made that would install the basics needed by Debian, mv some stuff around, then do the necessary apt-get magic... hmmm
I, for one, would love neat little ways to move back and forth between distros w/o new installs
Various ramblings
I knew I should have kept that dead-tree InfoWorld. I think that's where I saw one of those big-assed adds from either IBM or some name company adverting a line of servers with Linux as an OS option along w/ NT. I looked at it and said, "Oh, well sure, they've been saying they would support Linux for a while." And didn't keep it.
:))
Anyway, I have seen adds offering Linux, but I just can't recall whose ad? (poor little brain cells, crash, crash, crash
"shop smart:shop s-mart" ash
Whe are you people going to learn, RH has the most corporate recognition and therefore is the only viable choice for a compnay like Dell. Read the comments a few up, multiple distros=tech support nightmares. I think you will see SuSE long before you see Slackware from a major player like Dell. SuSE has the European market penetration to make it look good to international companies.
RH is Linux, Linux is not RH, my boss has never heard of Debian or Slackware, when are people gonna understand this ?
> Actually, the Dimension line is really geared towards small businesses and home users.
;) I was indeed referring to the do-it-yourselfer types.
.. they were desk machines, not server machines). I can't tell you how much I would have preferred to have people running Linux so I didn't have to run around to every computer and fix them at the desks themself. This is what I was saying - it would be great if this helped push Linux on to the desks in cubicle environments.
You misunderstood. I mean for desk jockeys in corperations. Ie, the standard cubicle computer. And sorry for using the word average (tm). It would seem one can't use the word these days without someone pointing out they're "average" and don't fit your description. At any rate, I don't imagine the average Linux user has the power to buy 50 computers a year. And if you do buy 50 computers a year (presumably for employees at your company), I don't imagine assembling each of them as much of an option anyhow.
When I worked at Nortel, we all had Dimensions, corperate wide, on our desks (well, okay, I'm almost positive they were Dimensions
SirSlud
"Old man yells at systemd"
I think Red Hat has sold out.
I'll stick with Slackware, thangyaverramush. Uh huh.
Having had to take apart and upgrade a few Dimensions, I feel pretty confident saying that they're not for the hardware-savvy crowd. They seem like they're actually designed to be difficult to take apart, let alone removing/replacing the hard drives.
I dunno, I would much rather have an Optiplex. One button and the case opens, PCI bus is on a removable riser, just a really nice box.
Causation can cause correlation
The idea that Dell is doing this because of MS Office coming to Linux is waay too farfetched. Its simple business.
1. The won't go bankrupt by doing this. Worst case, they loose some money. If they only cover their expenditures, then they are doing better than Compaq. Hemorraging money maybe fashionable but I don't think Dell is into that.
2. If anything, they increase their market share. And they doing it by *opening up* their offerings (unlike some other companies).
3. Maybe they are preparing for less MS business, I dunno. Pure speculation.
All in all, I think its just good business, respond to industry trends, get there first. We all said a couple of years ago that Linux would be big on the desktop, and now it looks like its starting to happen, so this is more "yeah, thought so" than big news.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
I can forsee a couple of problems with this. Suppose Joe Luser orders a system, and decides to have Linux installed on it because he's heard it's "cool" (or seen one of the various desktops and been impressed). What happens when he finds out that the applications he wants aren't available? Or, when he has problems using Linux? Even with GNOME or KDE installed, I don't think the typical computer user would be able to adjust to Linux. While I could certainly build a Linux system that my mother would be able to use, it would include heavy customization that a stock distribution is not going to provide.
What will likely happen is these people will all start flooding Dell's support lines. It could generate some bad publicity for Linux as well. Let's hope that Dell has anticipated this scenario and planned to deal with it.
I have also been unable to get sound working on my Dell Dimension XPS T450. One would hope that Dell would change the hardware, or shell out the bucks to have some programmers write a appropriate GPL'd drivers. I have also had persistent problems with X on the Dell Latitude CPi. The issue is switching to an external overhead display for presentations. Sometimes it shifts a number of pixels to one side. I tried Accelerated X, and no luck there -- I could not even get that to work on the LCD display, even after applying numerous patches from the web site. It's one thing to ship linux pre-installed; I want it pre-installed and *working*.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dell offers them at par because Microsoft forces them to (against numerous court orders, of course, but that never stopped Microsoft)
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Nicotine free Amish .sig.
one step closer to mainstream...
... considering the average Linux user isn't the type to purchase from large companies like Dell. On the other hand, Dell supplies to many corperatee IT companies like GE (Global Enterprise?) and such. Maybe this will contribute to the acceptance of Linux in the corperate invironment?
SirSlud
"Old man yells at systemd"
Now if they only offered an alternative chip, they would be opening the door to the brave new world of wintel independence. They could do the next big thing.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Subject line says it all... does anyone
know if they plan to offer any non-RedHat
distributions pre-installed
http://www.red-bean.com/kfogel
As interesting as this may sound, I was looking at purchasing Linux servers for a new company I am starting. I went to Dell's site looking for the Linux support on the servers, but I'd have to say that it wasn't very easy to figure out just exactly what was supported. An example is that they have RAID configs for their boxes and list their RAID card that they use. The problem is that I couldn't cross reference that RAID card with the Linux Hardware Compatibility list. This may just be a documentation issue, but I didn't want to risk forking X thousand dollars only to find that the RAID card isn't supported, but standard Adaptec SCSI is. To make a long story short, I'm purchasing my Rack mountable, redundant power supplied, hot swappable drive server from Penguin Computing. :) This isn't a plug, but I thought this might be helpful info for those of you that are in the market.
-Booya "No Try Not. Do or do not, there is no try." -Yoda
Many corporations will probably be more inclined to buy boxen from a well-established vendor with good support (which Dell has, IMO.)
This is probably also good for brand-conscious consumers who wouldn't want to buy from a 'small' shop like VA and who want linux pre-installed, for whatever reason. *ahem*
Baby steps to world domination...
Derek
Until I see laptops pre-configured with Linux complete with built-in ethernet, modems, CD/DVD ROMS for under $2500, I don't consider Linux to be supported in a "mainstream" manner.
It's about damn time, all the other Linux vendors I've seen have outrageous prices for their boxes. I admit that they might have higher quality components, but I mean c'mon -- $4000 for a single IDE PIII 550 is a bit much! Maybe Dell can force VA to lower their prices a bit -- that would make me happy!
How about we send Micron a few thousand polite emails asking them to officially support FreeBSD and/or Linux? :)
Well it's seems to me, from reading this article that they aren't going to change that. They'll simply put up little flags in their configurations that warn users about incompatabilities. So if you choose a WinModem and Linux it will tell you that you have a conflict with your modem.
---------
I am running Linux on a Dell Latitude CPi laptop right now. Everything works great, except I can't get X to work with the external video port (which isn't a big deal to me). BeOS 4.5 works well on this machine too. I don't know why it is taking so long for Linux on laptops to catch on...
They are accurately reflecting the cost, they are including the cost of the added tach support personnel. Unlike some of us the rest of the world will call tech support and ask questions.
will tech support "tech support?" I know that their warranty policy is very stodgy, and that if you want your computer fixed, they expect it to be in the original configuration as you got it.
:-) ). In fact I had the system open and sitting out when he arrived, so he didn't have to take the time to unscrew it. I would have prefered that they just overnight me the card but during the first year of next-day on-site service, they want to install it themselves I guess.
I've owned several Dell computers (2 actually) and on one a sound card fried. The tech had no problem coming to my dorm to install a new card (it was during the first year with on-site service), and didn't blink an eye when he saw my fairly heavily modified system (new modem, SCSI card, hard drive, CD burner, and of course, OS
Sufice it to say, I have absolutely no complaints about their service or machines. They are both great! and if Dell has announced that they are offering Linux pre-installed, I have faith that they will tweak it to your custom hardware (within the options they offer, of course, which is adaquete for most users). They may use a distro like Redhat, we'll see. I'm also certain that they will offer the same high quality tech support that I am used to recieving from Dell. I hope they lower the price of the system by $50 or so if you choose linux over Winblows, but would be happy enough if they just kept it the same price.
Spyky
What's the point of this? I mean, those of us who understand Linux would just wipe the disk and install our favorite distribution (or at the very least, reinstall whatever they supply, so it's the way you like it). Is it so it's easier for people to learn Linux? I hate to break it to you, but Linux is NOT ready for end-users. KDE is the best thing going in that direction, but it is NOT ALL READY YET! You can't be a total moron and run Linux (Though you can try). If someone wants to learn Linux, it's in their best interest to get a book, read it, and install it *himself*. It's the old argument: Can my mother use Linux as well as she can use a Mac or Windows? No. Even with KDE it's just not as easy. I do appreciate commercial recognition of Linux (to some extent), but this is just going to make people think it's like Windows. It's not.
Aye. Back when purchasing my current box (a Dimension R450) -- I did remember to request, specifically, a hardware-based modem, but didn't ask about the sound card (given that I didn't really care. Heck, I used to play _Doom_ on my (silent) P90...). Turns out that at the time, Dell was using Aureal Vortex-based cards (TB Montego) which are OSS-only.
Everything else, 'tho, including the TNT-based video card and the requested IDE tape drive, worked fine in Linux. That's spiffy.
This adds nicely to leverage w/ the hardware companies...
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
My Company Ordered a PowerEdge in May or June and it cost us $50 more to have RH5.2 installed on it. We figured it would be cheaper then one of us doing it.
/home partition.
When we got the box we had to blow out the file system. Their setup was not very good. I could imagine an ISP running it with a 300MB
Hahah, that's pretty accurate. I'll look up from my paper and see what is going on when I hear a Who tune coming from the TV. They know who has the purse strings, and what kind of noise to use to get my attention.
:-)
"..talkin 'bout my g-g-genereration!"
I was on my way down to Florida two weeks ago. I was stuck on Delta in Atlanta. We sat on the runway behind 18 other planes. When we finally got to the front of the line we moved up to the runway, then pulled off. The pilot then starts to say, "Well folks, how can I put this. Our computer just dumped on us and we have to wait ten minutes for it to come back online. We can't move the plane while it is coming back online. ..." Needless to say, although I know they don't run off Microsoft the thought definately came to mind. Just when you are about to do something important, splat, then wait ten minutes to reboot and if you move it crashes again. :)
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
According to a friend of mine at AMD, Dell is the only major OEM who has no AMD-based systems whatsoever. And it's kinda pathetic, actually, because Dell and AMD are both in Austin, TX.
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
Aren't they the ones selling the "unstoppable" Windows NT ? I always laugh when I see that commercial.
I've held the same opinion, that Microsoft was extremely unlikely to release Office for Linux or any other Unix variant. Any revenue they'd receive for Office on Linux would be tiny compared to the billions they will coin shipping Office 2K on Windows. However, the Linux platform does offer an opportunity for Corel, Lotus and others who have been effectively frozen out of the Windows platform by Billy's Bullies, so Microsoft could see some strategic value in porting to Linux. The clincher for me has been the undercutting of the Windows platform such a move by Microsoft would represent. The following conspiricy theory just occured to me nonetheless. Let's say Microsoft ports Office or parts of it to Linux in an attempt to undercut their arch-nemesis Sun. Though Unix in general has a tiny, tiny fraction of the desktop market, Office on Linux could boost the penguin in shops that run Solaris on their servers. I know it's not completely logical, but marketing never is, completely. Now for the nefarious part. Microsoft only ports Word and Excel, not Access, Powerpoint or the other cruft. This blunts competing commodity word processors and spreadsheets on Linux, but leaves Windows a better platform for Office in general. Windows remains the dominant desktop OS, and the competition for NT at the server is further split.
And my space alien contacts assure me that Richard Nixon is alive and well on Arcturus IV.
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
Actually, maybe the justice department should look into it. It seems these people are only distributing Netscape, and not also IE on the CD.
(just kidding, obviously there is no IE for Linux to put on the CD)
It would be nice if this prediction is true. However, the prediction is conditional on the office suite having to come specifically from microsoft. However, both StarOffice and Applixware do a reasonable job of being complette replacements of the functionality (including support of file formats) of MS-Office. So, why isn't Dell jumping at the chance to set up an OEM deal for StarOffice or Applixware pre-installment as a checkbox option also?
But if they swap in real printers and modems, the lack of the "MS tax" offsets the difference in price.
If only "common" sense was actually that common...
I wanted to know what the price diffrence was between a Dell with NT and one with Linux.. At first I thought the linux boxes cost more too. What is really happening is the linux boxes default configs are 'better' HW. After spec'ing out identical linux and NT workstation boxes the linux box ended up being almost $100 cheaper. Exactly what I expected.
Hopefully this decision is giong to be made across the board of Dell's operations and not be restricted to the North American market.
I have to say that although it's only a good thing it would be nice if manufacturers paid a little more lip service to the european market - we only have a few vendors who are willing to install Linux and they have not yet reached the same sort of size or recognition that VA and Penguin have - for a company such as Gateway or Dell or any large high street aware brand to bring Linux into Europe on their pre-installed range can only do good - not only for Linux but also for their own image.
Come on guys - remember we're over here.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
WP is great.
We have been selling Linunx on Precision Workstations and Optiplex desktops for some time now.
I (and those friends and employers whom I advize) have bought several systems from Dell over the past several years, and I've never had the problems you mention. Specifically, I've modified some of their systems rather heavily (high-end SCSI bus, NIC and sound card added, OS changed, etc) and never had them blink about supporting any other parts (even when the new ones were potentially involved in the problems). Maybe YOU've had problems with Dell, but I can assure you that your experiences are far from common.
On another note...
I find it likely that Dell won't measure up to VA. I've worked with people, however, who refuse to buy from anyone they haven't heard of/seen ads for on TV/etc... this has caused more than a few folks I turned towards Alpha-based servers from Microway and their ilk to refuse to purchase them. Dell still will fill a niche in the Linux market, and VA will retain theirs.
MS Office is irrelevant. For these that really desire the 100-pound godawful hodgepodge of features that MS has shoehorned into a 5-pound sack, there is StarOffice. It even recreates the Start-button interface, making even the most ardent Windows fanatic feel right at home.
However, for those that use Linux because its stability, speed, and configurability are orders of magnitude better than MS' offerings (and others' too, to be fair), the lack of MS Office on Linux is no burden. This is tantamount to claiming that Linux would be taken seriously as a server OS if MS were to port Exchange. (Pah!!) There are a multitude of offerings that serve all of the needs of most of the people. All that's necessary is a good set of file translators, which StarOffice, Applix, and Wordperfect all have.
The funny thing, IMHO, is that many of the major Linux distributions now include lots of apps at install, including office productivity and browser software. I'd like to see Microsoft attempt to sue Red Hat or SuSE to force them to give MS equal space on the preconfigured Gnome or KDE desktop (because the GPL cadre is a de facto monopoly?? God knows what MS lawyers will think up...).
I think not...(*poof*)
I'm surprised at the number of people here buying preconfigured systems. I though most Linux home users built their own boxes. I built my last two computers. It's no more expensive than buying a prebuilt box, and you're guaranteed to get comptible hardware. There's no tech support, but that's no problem if you're at all competent. It's a lot like putting legos together. Of course, if you're an IT manager or something along those lines, it's a different story...
Maybe i tried the wrong model, but so far the cheapest configuration i can figure out is 1278.00 - am i wrong?
Yes! Finally another step toward world domination for the Linux OS, and one step backwards for that other OS, whatever it is.
On a serious note: What avid linux user would buy an M$ product??? That would be like getting a coke out of a pepsi machine. Strange and twisted in its own way.
See subject.
I purchased 3 Dell-4300's for use as Linux servers, but did go the extra step of not ordering them with RAID, but instead obtained RAID controllers from DPT to use in them instead. They have performed most admirably, but probably could have gotten something cheaper that would have worked just as well.
Like I said in a reply to someone's comment, linux is relatively easy to use but difficult to administer. Dell is taking on some of the responsibilities of your office Unix guru, offering support for their products under linux and configuring the system for you. Sure most of us could or already have built our own systems but in an office with dozens or hundreds of employees you don't want to do it yourself. Some people will bitch about not having office but there's always Applix and Star Office, which are both Office 97 compatible and are very well put together not to mention much less expensive than Office 97 or 2000. We're going to see alot more linux-ready desktops in the next year. Especially with nVidia et al opening up their hardware and helping with drivers for their products. The 2.4 kernel with FireWire and USB will do alot to increase linux's popularity, with USB support we'll most likely see linux drivers for all of our favorite USB toys.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Of course it is good that a company in bed with Microsoft is beginning to offer free software solutions. But has Dell made any investments in free software the way Redhat, VA Linux, SuSE, IBM, or SGI have? I would like to be shown that I am wrong in thinking Dell has done nothing and is simply an opportunist. VA Linux and Penguin would be more responsible choices with whom to do business.
I bet Dimensions account for most of Dell's sales - as Linux continues to be the "it girl of the '90's", it's smart for them to extend their support there, to the volume sector. That's where the money is.
Dimensions are the "value" line, built with fairly generic ATX mobos & mid-tower cases. They don't suck at all, but Dell changes components on short notice, depending on what's "hot" at any given time. I switched my company over from those to Optiplexes because, hey, they may cost more but I can call Dell this time next year and buy the exact same machine I buy today. When you need to maintain a fleet of PCs, it helps a lot when they're the same. Of course, right now I'm running NT on them (contrary to general belief, NT isn't bad as a desktop OS for the average joe user in a 'corporate' environment), but the day is coming when I can switch - even though NT isn't bad for a desktop Linux is much, much nicer. Official support is a Good Thing, and gives me that much more ammo to fire when the time for the revolution comes.
But offering Linux on Dimensions is even easier than offering it on their other configs for just that reason - generic hardware (BX motherboards with 3 DIMM slots and integrated sound), only IDE to worry about, standard NICs (3C905b), and a hotrod video card (probably the TNT2 right now). They can just build a kernel under Redhat 6 with support for the few options they offer as stock, and ship it in 1 or two configs to handle different video cards under X. Piece of cake. I'm surprised they waited this long. If you can get it on a Precision or an Optiplex, Dimensions are trivial.
It'll definitely be Red Hat, after all - Dell owns a piece of them.
Now what I'm waiting for from Dell is two things:
1: Official support for Linux on my Inspiron 7000 (it is sweet!), because running X with the built-in ATI Rage Pro LT is a kludge.
2: Dell to run Linux for their WebTalk support system so it won't crash all the time.
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
I would not be surprised at all to see MS release Office 200x for Linux in some partially complete fashion, once they see a credible market for shrinkwrapped, retail-distributed Linux-desktop software. However, it is much better for everyone if Access and Powerpoint never get ported. Powerpoint is an abomination aesthetically and in terms of file size and CPU utilization, and Access is a dbms that barely works, behaving inconsistently and commonly doing things like losing records or attaching updates to the wrong record.
Hopefully by the time this release happens (it it happens), MS Office will be well along on its tumble into irrelevancy anyway.
This article seems to imply that Dell knows something everyone else doesn't know. It can't be the value of *linux* the OS can it, ZDNET? No, they suspect that Microsoft is involved. Riiiight. At any rate, I think it is *incredibly, hugely unlikely* that Microsoft is going to release MS Office on Linux. Never saw MS Office for OS/2 did we? Don't think we are going to see one for linux. Linux competes for too directly with Windows for them to ever do it. Enough bashing ZDNET for shoddy reporting and baseless implications. Dell is selling their machines with Linux pre-loaded because it sees potential in the operating system, they wan't to be the "first" big company to offer it. I say its great for us, the more companies who do this, the more alternatives will continue to gain support. Also, Dell produces top-quality machines, I have a year old PII/400 from them, wonderful stuff, a year before that I had a PII/266, now that I am boycotting M$ I can buy my *next* machine from them too, without paying an M$ tax. Kudos to Dell!
Spyky
I'm sure most of us have seen the Gateway 2000 commercials with the Who song "Who are you" playing in the background.
I just saw a new Dell commercial with the Who's "Magic Bus" as background music.
Since Slashdot has proclaimed "Townsend is God", I was wondering if anyone knows why the Who has apparently been selected as "Best Band to sell Computers With".
Hasn't Dell been claiming all along that they'd bundle Linux with their systems. And haven't they, all along, qualified that as "You have to buy 50 or more systems at a time at $1K a system over the Windows price," or some other such nonsense? I'll believe this when I see it, not before.
...will it be custom-built, or will it be only a stock hardware configuration, to save work by Dell tech support?
...will tech support "tech support?" I know that their warranty policy is very stodgy, and that if you want your computer fixed, they expect it to be in the original configuration as you got it.
...will they match up to VA? Of course, the price will be better, but will we be better off buying Linux pre-shipped from Dell? I bet there's some serious tweaking that the end-user will have to do once it's out of the box to get it the way they like it.
I hope Dell takes these things into account when they're brandishing "Linux" all over the web. It's not just a buzzword--it's a philosophy, almost. If Dell is just looking to get publicity and misled sales, they might as well try to sell BeOS as well.
Fighting the War on the War on Drugs.
http://smokedot.org/
--
Wonko the Sane
I've seen this statement recently in several articles, but Dell has been offering Linux on 410 workstations for some time now. In fact, this was even announced on /. a while back.
I just checked out Dell's online store(which i use to purchase pc's for work) and I compared two equally configured systems in NT and Linux. The NT box cost $4840 and the Linux was $4607.
Interesting to note, the default configurations show up as NT being $7151 and the Linux box coming in at a friendlier $5776. If you went shopping online and saw those two prices, which would you choose? Hmmm...
BTW: The systems I checked out were Precision 610 Workstations configured as follows:
PIII 550 w/512kb cache
256MB RAM (on two slots)
Diamond something video w/32MB
9GB SCSI
24" Monitor (neat)
and the rest is ho-hum normal crap like mouse, etc...
Well, my friends not only is Dell supporting the demention series but they are also supporting the latitude notebook line as pretaining to installation. Only bumber is no driver support for the PCMCIA cards. -You are still on your own there.- Also the support is only offered to corporate customers. So if you have a corporate account ask your sales rep. and they will gladly pass you along to the support team. Oh yeah, I almost forgot the cool part. Most all of the devices are supported under normal install of redhat v6.0 without a major configuration headache. Linux plug and play at its finest hour. Must say it is truely an awesome way to do linux. The one thing I needed help with was configuring the sound card, they helped and now it works. "MS blows, billy hos, Jobs laid a floresent egg." -Linux Snyper-
If you tell me how to build my own notebook, I'd be glad to build my own. I can't wait till I can start buying Linux notebooks from lots of different companies... this announcement (even if only one line in an otherwise desktop article) is a good step.
Yeah, I have a Dimension XPS-T450, and it has the Yahama DS-XG soundcard in it. I downloaded the trial OSS drivers, and got the sound to work, but I haven't shelled out the $30 to get the real version. I hope ALSA ends up supporting this soundcard. The winmodem is just a pain right now.
Oh yeah, mine came with a 3com 3c905c ethernet card, so I had to download the newest version (development) of the driver, cause the stable one doesn't support it yet.
>Does this new Dell support imply that Dell will
>help in cajoling hardware manufacturers to write
>Linux drivers? I dam' well hope so, though it
>might not help me any.
Dell's a big company. I'm sure they'll do some arm twisting if necessary to get whatever it takes to support Linux on their boxes.
Look I just priced an NT box for my boss from DELL and it was also a single PIII 550 and it was sitting a little over $4k. Dude, get with it you are looking at corporate america and complaining about their standards like they care. But what you must not realize is they don't give a damn about mine nor your personal opinions. The prices are set at the market value and that is the fact of buisness, mi compadre.
I wouldn't worry - they seem to have their act together. Back in May, my IS department asked me to price one of their poweredge servers, a 4300, which would run linux (and I would install). There were a few issues with the RAID card and video, but I never even had to deal with it because by the time we were ready to order, they were shipping SMP systems with RH6. They evidentally had tested all the hardware and made a few changes. Dual PIII-500s, 1GB RAM 27GB RAID5 - it SCREAMS. So far, we've had absolutely NO problems with it. Dell did a very good job making sure everything worked properly.
I'm sure you'll see the sound card on the dimensions change to a more standard type, and the Winmodem should go bye-bye. I had to price a dimension-xps and tried like hell to find a way to get a regualar hardware modem. The problem, they say, is that they "can't" find a PCI hardware modem. I think at the VERY LEAST, they will offer an external. They'll find SOMETHING that works with Linux. (Funny, I switched to Linux 5 years ago because my modem refused to work right with Win3.1)
This Dell announcement is VERY GOOD NEWS INDEED. Linux is one HUGE step closer to being mainstream-PC-user OS. More people with learn that Linux is FOR REAL.
They oughta bundle WordPerfect Office for Linux when it's out.......
and/or they will release a horridly buggy sorry excuse for Office on Linux, and then try to shift the blame for how crummy it is to the OS and not Office.
At least that is what they did with MacOS until Apple somehow got them over a barrel and made them make a semi decent version for 3 years...
Are you aware that you can use the 3c59x.o module to drive it? The one drawback to this card is that if you have a dual boot system, you *must* go to a power-off state after running win9x, or it will be severely confused.
James
This should be interesting especially with the information my Dell Sales Rep gave me last time I ordered PC's from them. The university I work for has a "Site License" from M$, and so purchasing any OS from Dell would be a waste of money, and wanting the most hardware for my dollar I asked them to leave off Win9x. The Rep refused saying, "Our contract with Microsoft forbids us shipping any Desktop machines without a windows OS." I was angry at the time, but ordered anyways.
Man, To what length Penguin computers go..It is a plug for Penguin computers alright!!!..At least VA does not go so low..My two bits
MSOffice for Linux will ship if and when there are 5 million or
more LinuxPPC or LinuxAlpha machines in use on the street.
MS will never release an MSOffice for any Intel based OS other
than it's own except that they are told in no uncertain terms
( Falling stocks, slow sales etc... ) that the Windows dominance
is over.
For evidence of this mindset look at the Release of IE for Unix.
It generally costs very little to port running software from
Solaria to Linux since they are so similar underneath. Many
people ( including me ) believe there are probably more Linux
X86 desktops out there than Solaria Spark desktops ( Not servers
here ).
--
"THINK" -: former IBM motto.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
So is StarOffice 5.1 for OS/2
little mis-info there, they offer red hat on their precision workstations, or whatever their high end workstations are. But why just red hat? why can't we have some suse or slack-ness?
red hat is linux, but linux is not red hat. why can't people understand this.
stu --- got slack?
hi =)
Select models of Dell OptiPlex® Desktops, PrecisionTM WorkStations, and PowerEdge® Servers are certified by Red Hat® Linux 6.0 and can be custom configured for quick and easy deployment.
from the dell site from the last poster...
OFTC: By the community, for the community
P.S. Dell isn't the luser computer manufacturer, that's Compaq. At least Dell's boxes don't look like something out of a quasi-futuristic 1950's commercial. And they don't have a semi-transparent moon button on them either. Or 'stylish' plastic doors which block the CDROM drive from opening. I bought my Dell because of the good price and the intelligent design of the case.
Wah!
Like many IT guys, each week I get a ton of junk mail arriving at my mailstop. Catalogs, flyers, seminar promotions; you know the drill. When I look at the catalogs and flyers from Dell, IBM, HP, Compaq, etc. I have yet to see Linux being advertised as available on any of their machines. They all offer the machines configured with NT or W98. Never a mention of Linux. And believe me, I scan the fine print. Until I start seeing Linux appearing as an option in the glossy catalogs that are mailed out by the millions, I will doubt the PR hype of these companies. It's one thing to have Linux available to someone "in the know" if he asks nicely and places a special order. It's quite another thing when the choices available are clearly listed up front. That's the day I'm waiting for.
As much as I like that little paperclip, we don't really need another Office distribution under Linux. StarOffice is really really good (although having 256 megs of RAM doesn't hurt). Applix is almost as good and has a much smaller footprint. I haven't really used WordPerfect, but I can only imagine that it's of a high quality too.
------
For the same hardware, will I get a lower price for the Linux OS box vs. the WinOS box?
One of the biggest things I see happening from this move is the inability of hardware manufacturers to ignore Linux. Any OEM who wants to be bundled with Dell (which is basically everybody) will now _have_ to produce Linux drivers. With this move, we now have a chicken and OEMs will have to produce the eggs.
...when it is obvious that Linux is penetrating the business desktop market in a big way. I agree that they'll fight it tooth and nail, but once Linux starts to take a big chunk of the market away from Windows, you can bet MS will want to get in on the action. They'll probably also come up with their own distribution with the Windows GUI. Either of the above would be a major concession by MS that Windows' stranglehold is over, so I wouldn't expect it until they're in trouble.
nuff said.
There are four Dell Dimension XPS's at the place I work. I had to install SCSI cards in them. Piece of cake. One screw for the cover, push the tabs and tada! Today I installed a cd-r with a scsi card in another dell dimension. Same deal. Its a little more tricky to get the front cover off, but I got no impression of a "DON'T OPEN THIS" attitude.
ul|tma -At least we all use linux-
This is the only way they can make any sales. . .
I've been quietly reading slashdot for a long long time...I'm a Product Manager with the Dell Dimension group, and have been involved with the Linux team at Dell since our first mainstream factory-install on Servers & Workstations some months back.
.org pavilion...ask for myself (Steve Kirk). I'd be happy to give up my lunch hour to chat with those who want to show up....
Would any of ya'll be interested in a little Q&A sessions here at LinuxWorld? I'd be happy to stand around & answer what I can answer. I won't pretend to have all the answers, or necessarily the ones you're looking for...but you guys are the ones I'm seeking feedback from, and maybe I can give you some feedback from our side as well.
Let's say noon, Tuesday, at the Dell booth, which is in the corner next to the
Of course they don't cost less! Dell admitted to us that they are bound by Microsoft to sell one copy of Windows with each PC sold. That's why you can no longer buy a DELL without OS. Full story at http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~ geert/DELL_and_MS.html
And in Europe, you cannot buy them with Linux at all. That's what DELL told us (among other things). Full story at http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~ geert/DELL_and_MS.html
Have you ever read one of those articles in the PC magazines (they appear every few months) where they go through the "let's give Linux a try" bit.
They all spend half the article bitching that to run Linux you have to partition the hard disc, ignoring that fact that the work is predicated on the fact that (a) Windows is already there and (b) you actually want to keep it. The reverse applies if you have a pre-existing Linux install and add Windows.
For the average non-techie, installing RH or SuSe (predicating Linux supported hardware) is a lot easier these days than installing Windows, it's just that they never have to install Windows.
These preloaded machines will go long way to dispelling this urban legend in the minds of the masses.
If you're hoping to avoid lining Microsoft's pocket, think again...if you check you'll find that the price difference between Linux and NT models is the same as the price difference between NT and Win98 OEM's, and you'll still be paying Bill his $25 or so. This is written into Dell's deal with MS and they're not going to eat it for your benefit.
Does anyone know for sure if Dell's Linux desktops actually ship with RH only, or with a LILO dual boot setup and Win98?
I've got a Dimension, and the only original stuff left in it is the motherboard, ram, and hard drive. Its got new vid, sound, scsi, and nic, and new CDROM and CD burner, plus added memory. The only think I would prefer would be more options on the motherboard, but since it is made by Intel its only to be expected that they wouldn't have non standard bus speeds. In no way do I feel it is designed to be difficult to work with. Not that others aren't even easier, but this was pretty much a piece of cake. Chris
I suppose the answer is that servers and workstations get real modems and printers. While lowly end users get WinModems and WinPrinters which Linux does not support (no, 1 exception does not count as being "supported"). So Linux on end user machines would "look" more expensive and turn off sales.
Fat old geezers like me who listened to the Who in grade school are now actually in charge of purchasing.
I installed Linux on a friend's Dell Dimension. They use Yamaha DS-XG sound chips, which as far as I could figure out (I may have been very wrong), are only supported in Open Sound's drivers. Not to mention the WinModem is standard on Dimensions...I hope Dell is planning to change the hardware a bit for Linux installs...
i've written dell more than once to ask about linux on the dimension, and here it is! and i won't have any office2000 or windows98 for 'free' so they can jack the price up above $1000. if they can accurately reflect the cost of these PC's, minus the microsoft software, they will be able to sell millions of units.
The next thing I wanna see is dell offering linux preinstalled on their kickass inspiron 7k series laptops (the best ones around IMHO). Does anyone know if dell offers windows rebates on these? I might get one of these pretty soon....15" screen on a laptop....oh yes. -some random AC