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Mitnick Finally Receives Federal Sentence
Anonymous Coward writes "According to ZDNet, Kevin Mitnick has finally been sentenced to 46 months less time served, and $4,125 in restitution. He's also banned from using computers for three years, which will make a total of seven since he was captured. Can't help but wonder if the guy broke a mirror." He's eligible for immediate reassignment to a halfway house, and could be out next January if he meets "good behavior" requirements. Not good, but not nearly as bad as it could have been, especially the restitution.
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
Or, if you keep pissing off big companies long enough, chances are they will come after you, track you down and have you arrested.
Mitnick is a criminal and not a hacker. And he hasn't got the faintest idea what is ment by the saying: RESPICE FINEM. Somebody get him a job.
--se
This is a pretty routine practice. People who bomb abortion clinics are prohibited from frequenting them, child molesters can't see kids unsupervised, people who drink and drive lose their license, and people who rob banks with guns can't (legally) own 'em. His own laywer admits he suffers from obsessive behavior and needs help to beat it - consider this computer ban as part of his help.
They really hate the guy! He won't even be able to read computer magazines or even talk about computers. Well, more specifically, he can't speak in any computer languages. This would be in violation of his probation.
"Hey How's it going Kevin?"
"Not bad, how're things with you, I'm still not allowed to say 'c***uter' or read c***uter magazines."
%> Universe Error: Segmentation Fault - The Universe has become unstable and must be restarted.
After all, even the government obviously thinks Kevin Mitnick is god.
TheGeek
http://www.geekrights.org
TheGeek
http://www.geekrights.org
Kill the monkey
How come this guy's posts haven't been moderated down? I mean if people have an opinion on the legal aspects of this thing, all well and good, but why do I have to hear from some low-grade moron who's probably jealous just because of all the attention Kevin got?
I mean this is such obvious trolling for Mitnick lovers.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
'Leet hax0r d00d hahahah hacker lingo alwasy made me Sick If yer so smart SPEAK FRICKIN ENGLISH BOY! Shades B )
Hmmm, I can see the point of 'Peers' being Techno savvy people. But definitly not [h|cr]ackers. Because, and this might be streatching it (spelling), the average Mutant/Muppet/Moron hears "Hacker" and freaks. "Bad boy, you must do time" anyhoo, from what I understand, that wasn't the point, it was to do with constitutional rights and Innocent till prooven guilty. I dunno, I'm Irish, We just bomb ppl Shades =B^)
IMHO, the guy was a petty theif and deserved what he got.
NO-ONE deserves to have the Feds do a number on them.
Bill of Rights My Hairy White Ass...
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
So right you are... But keep in mind, it should also be illegal for company to keep your CC informations accesible to the outside world, and unencrypted.
Sun Tzu must have been running Linux...
- Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him. (Sun Tzu, The art of war)
Marriage is considered capital punishment for the theft of a goat in some third world countries...
Ha Ha! Paying the dough is a hell of a lot more involvement than writing some stupid me too comment on some discussion board. And "support" shouldn't imply that a lot of people think he's actually innocent of the crimes. The support is because they think he's been treated badly. Sorry, you don't get money donated in your name for being treated badly.
Gee, is 2600 Magazine passing out little quote sheets for mindless drones to reproduce in these forums now? Mitnick broke into Motorola's computers. That's a crime. Just because Motorola misstated the damages doesn't make it not a crime. I'm sorry, but it's true.
Whilst I agree that the restriction probably isn't meant to include use of -embedded- computers, that is down to how the probation officer interprets the restrictions. It isn't specified directly, as far as I can tell.
To make things more complex, some US banks apparently charge you for using teller services, rather than ATMs. If Mitnick is unlucky, whatever bank he's with could make a healthy profit out of this.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Don't waste your breath getting outraged about some advanced version of a script kiddie getting punished. You want a political prisoner? Try Leonard Peltier or Mumia Abu-Jamal. (Another site.)
"Don't touch the bunny!"
Since he would not of been permitted to use a computer since he was arrested way back before even Windows 95 was released. I think he can count himself luckier than most of us as he would never have had that particular OS inflicted on him, and with that sentence he might still get the tail end of Win2K though....
Umm...a jury of his peers would be a bunch of hackers? Why? Isn't that kind of like saying a jury for a murder case should be a bunch of murderers?
"it's time for him ... to be integrated back into the community," It's phrases like that, that I find scarey. Unless he meant the internet community? (duh!) ;) -kojak
= 68 months.
He also performed cell phone cloning and a parole violation according to the article.
Whatever he did or didn't do, this man is a poster boy for where the legal system failed.
I think my signature applies heavily in this case...
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire
... the slimeball should have been put away for life. He has time and again demonstrated that he's a menace to society and has no business being in the company of decent human beings. Thow him in the stir and then throw away the keys. Anything less is a slap in the face of civilization.
I was on Netcom at the time that he stole all those credit card numbers. One of them was mine. I was informed of this by Netcom and had to get a new credit card. Now while Netcom were bastards for puting my number online in the first place, that bitch had no right to put me through that.
Why don't those haX0rZ at 2600 get some money together to pay off his debt. I know....a bake sale for Kevin in the Sun's PAL1 parking lot. heh
He broke into one of Netcoms servers and stole a bunch of credit card numbers, one of which was mine. I was told about this by Netcom and had to get my card canceled and get a new one. Pissed me off it did.
Speak in computer languages? That's gotta be an interesting conversation
"Kevin Mitnick 0wned my ISP and all I got was this lousy shirt"
Seriously, there are logs of him screwing with csn.net out there on the takedown site... My only regret is that his "w" that showed a whole mess of UUCP accounts logged in didn't show mine. Wah.
Right after THAT happened, they got all anal about security. Now they're Qwest. Oh well.
So, his antics affected MY life by making me telnet to their terminal servers instead of going to teal (the shell box) directly. Why do all of you guys care?
The thing will either last for a couple of years, or the government will settle to avoid "bad" publicity.
He's done it, granted.
He might be guilty as sin, but _NO ONE_ disserves to spend 53 months locked up _WAITING_ to be tried and sentenced.
The government screwed up big time on this one, and they're trying to minimize damage right now. Expect a big settlement with NDA.
Sun Tzu must have been running Linux...
- Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him. (Sun Tzu, The art of war)
Marriage is considered capital punishment for the theft of a goat in some third world countries...
He stole. He got caught.
Go directly to jail.
Do not pass go.
Do not collect 200 dollars.
eof
Sheesh...why don't you do a little research and find out soem FACTS before you continue to spew your "He served X years in jail while blah blah blah"...he PLEADED GUILTY to cel-phone fraud and was sentenced to 3 years for that...
/hacking/social engineering crimes. Poor Poor Kevin...everybody was picking on him..they deprived him of his rights..sheesh..get a clue for Christs sake
Yeah...but I'll bet the Feds forced him to confess to that..yeah..I'll bet they beat him with a rubber hose untill the poor poor victim admitted to crimes that he didn't commit... sheesh... In fact...I'll bet the police set him up the other 2-3 times he was arrested for various cracking
If any of you script kiddies wanna play with this stuff then expect to be punished if you get caught.
so, he can't drive a car, use a vcr, or do much of anything involving electricity...
...and a lot of the hoopla isn't so much about Mitnick as it is about the situation, and what it portends for the rest of us in the future...
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
clap clap
Yeah. It was about some cracker who was also really good at 3-D chess (Keep in mind. Asimov. Old-school sci-fi. Therefore, 3-D chess.)
It was a pretty cute story. They actually didn't ban him from computers, but make him feel sick whenever he looked at a computer screen.
Ya know, I know a few people who get pretty sick whenever they play Quake. Maybe a lot of my friends are just WitnessProtectioned crackers.
You don't have to be violent to be a danger to society. In a world where we're rapidly moving all of our critical activities at least partially into the computer realm, we can't afford to have people like mitnick running around thinking they have free license to abuse their technological skills. I say lock him up.
At this point in this whole trial, I don't care if he did do it or he didn't do it, the system clearly failed. No one and I mean no one should sit in prision for more than 4 years without a trial.
Response: ... And saying "I don't care whether he did it" is stupid...we all know that he *did* (the're no way around it), so stop trying to avoid the issue.
Why not? He was going to do the time anyway. This way he had a chance to prepare defense. The system worked fine
That is a guilty until proven innocent mentality. That is not the way this country is supposed to work. PERIOD. That's why not. Read a book sometime.
I can't stand people like this. They just don't understand the difference between right and wrong, free and federallly dictated. We don't need 'em.
Lime
I really try not to lash out like that, but it's innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. And the way things are progressing, it seems like we get further away from that simple slogan every day.
What, there weren't any large, pointy objects left in the house you could insert in your rectum for entertainment so you did the next best thing? Get a life, lamer.
If you don't know about the OJ trial...
The best part of the bits I heard of the trial was when the defense pointed-out that the deaths occured at 12:19, and OJ was at such and such a place until 12:15, so couldn't have possibly made it to the crime scene in time.
Does anyone remember the really old OJ/Rent-A-Car ads? I'm not sure of the brand, but it was some rental car company.
It showed OJ having to park far away using the brand X rental company (or some other inconvenience) and then rushing to catch his plane. He leaped over baggage carts and rolled around old women with suitcases (and other such football moves).
I couldn't stop laughing when I imagined the prosecution playing those old commercials and the defense crumbling.
I have to wonder what the wording on the prohibition from using computers is.
....
In the strictist sense he could be banned from using telephones, bank machines, elevators, traffic lights, fridges, central heating, most modern cars
Any computer chip with a user affected input stream could probably be covered by a not carefully worded clause in the prohibition.
Curel and unusual punishment in the modern world.
A poster above brought up a good point. I mean, can he not use an ATM or a microwave? What definition of "Computer" are they using? Isn't almost everything a computer now? I mean, what if he gets a job as a Janitor and he has to use a computerized time clock system? He can't take that job? Are they specifying this somewhere, or just leaving it up in the air?
What about Playstation and the like? Do those count as computers? How about Playstation 2, which will be more powerful than a normal computer? Hmmm? Anybody got any info on this?
rooooar
no sir, missed it by 3 whole minutes (lamer)
He waived his right to a speedy trial in exchange for something, like tuna cans or something stupid. Hopefully what will come of this is that a person won't break into a site like the well and download users credit card info and what not with the tools of some israli guy again. You can go to jail and have a very bad time for doing stupid things, that is the way life is.
testicles posting anonymously? I know your opinion is not all that popular on this site but at least stand up for your views and explain them.
At this point in this whole trial, I don't care if he did do it or he didn't do it, the system clearly failed. No one and I mean no one should sit in prision for more than 4 years without a trial. In addition, the treatment the prosecutors in this case was less than professional. You do not spew your opinion across the media and stall and stall and stall your case.
They basically got the media into a hacker/cracker hating frenzy to help out their case!
Geez. How much is a plane ticket to Switzerland. I think I am tired being a US Citizen.
"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire
so what, he's at worst a criminal at best a guy really good at faking people out and then got caught. there's no reason to bash him personally. please.
get a life.
besides, doing 50+ months in jail is more than plenty for having some fun. at least they did drop the outrageous "restitution" demands. peace.
10 PRINT "GNULIX" 20 FOR X = 1 TO 10000 30 NEXT X 40 GOTO 10
Actually, there is a big difference between your examples and mine. In my examples, the uses are as basic, natural, and innocent as, say, using a computer is to a hacker. A computer is generally the most common means to a perfectly legal livelihood for a hacker.
;)
To pick on one of your examples, a robber using a gun for his livelihood is not nearly as legal -- or as defendable. Now, you can feel free to quibble with my examples.
Geeky modern art T-shirts
Maybe 2600 can actually talk about something other than "Kevin was given a piece of stale bread in prison today. This is obvious proof that they are triyng to torture him" and talk about something interesting. Off the Hook and the magazine has been saturated with Kevin Kevin Kevin. Now Emmanuel can talk about how he got ripped off in a vending machine and think it's some government conspiracy against him. heh
When I got popped for hack/phreak(which they called felony wire fraud and felony computer fraud) back in '87 they told me the same thing, no computer for 3 years. Two months after area switched from crossbar to ESS they got me. Those days you had to phreak if you wanted to do anything and not be broke. How are they gonna he hasn't got a home computer? Because of some technicallities my lawyer was able to get the computer back from FBI about 8 months later. My probatation officer came twice in a year and I told'em it was Dad's computer. I got my Dad to get the computer and told him how to plug it in. I did help scrape the EVIDENCE stickers off though. He wanted to use the PC-Write on there to print out letters and use the VisiCalc for his reports. Desqview started all these programs including the hack/phreak three phone BBS. Having Dad type I told him to login and view log files for the BBS. We chuckled seeing the numerous attempts to login as SysOp on the RBBS-PC done while being examined by the FBI. I had my sister check the system everyday for about 6 months to make sure it was running because MS-DOS/DesqView combo did crash if a some DOOR program didn't lockup. At about 10 months of not touching the computer one of Seagate Black Bart's died. To much work for my Dad or sister to replace a drive. I grabbed a screw driver and hadn't looked back since. How are they going to know and damn near everything is linked via computer these days?!
which means what? He had access to your CC number, which any company can get legally AND they're more likely to use it. He got 5 years for not being a company who is legally allowed to rip you off.
knock knock
who's there?
Kevin
Kevin who
Kevin Mitnick you got a crack for Windows95 beta for a Commodore 128?
check out our elite lock up kevin banner www.AntiOffline.com
Want Root?
Let's see... popular articles on /. get some 300 replies. Suppose half of those are from people who support Mitnick to some extent. That's $27.50 each to pay off his fine.
/.ers should feel eager to pay this guy's $4,000 fine. That's not that much money. Yeah, it's a bitch, but the whole point of that small a fine was so that he'd be definitely able to pay it. I'm all for making him pay it.
I see NO reason why
If he wants me to write some letters of support, that's cool, because I disagree with the politics of the situation. It's the same thing with all the Mumia crap. It would be bonkers if we were putting forth that much effort for just one guy. It doesn't make any sense. You could use the same effort to go to McDonalds, earn your minimum wage, and give it to those 10cents-a-day places, maybe save some starving kids.
My point is that this is a real issue because of the politics, policy-setting, and publicity of the case. Not because we feel bad for some crackers wallet. Handing him my lunch money doesn't make a difference to those 3 cute alliterative P's above.
Good. Will I finally stop seeing these annoying "Free Kevin!" banners everywhere now?
--
Dave Brooks (db@amorphous.org)
http://www.amorphous.org
Nope.
Many states specifically deny criminals the right to collect proceeds from "how/why-I-did-it"types of stories.
The idea is that no convicted criminal should be able to profit from his crime, whether monetarily, or by broadcasting his thoughtcrime.
It's perfectly permissable for the Federal Government to broadcast it's case, though. Justifyable, maybe, but not justice.
I'm fairly sure he didn't use the latest exploit from rootshell. Back in the days, there weren't really any script kiddies since scripts weren't readily available to kiddies. Mitnick was a hacker and a cracker. I guess he needs a little catching up now, though.
Have you been automatically generated?
I think I have your script for the dada-engine.
I was a netcom customer when Mitnick cracked into their files. He stole my credit card info. Even if he didn't *do* anything with it, the man's still a criminal in my book. It's a shame that he didn't get a prompt trial, but the sentence was too light for his crime IMHO.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
heh, you must be *INSANE* !!
Speedy trials only benefit the prosecutors. Note the plural on prosecutorS, a whole team of professional lawyers was preparing the case againse Mitnick. How could Mitnick have adequately prepared a defense if he were rushed before a judge for a speedy trial?Don't believe me? Refuse to sign the next traffic ticket. Signing waives your right to a speedy trial. Then tell me how sticking up for your rights makes your life better and how Mitnicks 4+year no-trial incarceration was "his own fault">
but was he that great of a hacker? sounded to me like he was better at manipulating people to give out the information he needed to get into systems rather than actually breaking into them...
woohoo, linuxworld on tuesday.
Pork is not a verb
ha ha you're _damn_ Phunny
He can't even read COMPUTER MAGAZINES? Sheesh. How do they expect this guy to make a living? Doesn't he have any rights? Where's the Constitution?
I mean, c'mon. The guy can't possibly get a decent paying job if he can't use a computer! The guy's got marketable skills, to be sure. But just about every profession worth a damn requires the use of computers. The guy can't even work at McDonalds.
I don't care whether the guy's guilty or not. What matters is that they've totally f----d him over. He's already been held for FOUR YEARS without even so much as a trial.
WHERE'S THE CONSTITUTION? WHAT IS THIS COUNTRY COMING TO?!?
assuming mitnick HAD elite hacker skills.
but i wonder if he's been reading about all the stuff that's happened while he was busy waiting for his trial in jail. maybe he's seen the horrors of windows 98 in PC Magazine.
...instead of $4,125.
What about a deliveryman who lost his liscence for driving drunk? He'll also need another livelihood until his liscence can be reinstated.
Back to a a previous example, the embezzler may not be banned from using money but he certainly won't be able to get a job that involves handling money (that is, if it was a felony conviction, because he'll have to put it on his job application forms).
(Score: -1, Troll)
:)
=-=-=-=-=-=
If he can show that he has a legitimate job with computers, I'm sure his parole officer will let him (that's the terms after all). I'm sure they want to seem SOME of that $4 M. McDonald's isn't going to cut it... Hmmm...I wonder if he can sue for royalties on the movie being made about the case.
the courts also said he "shall not access computers... himself or through third parties"... that mean he can't order a quarter pounder at McDonalds.
Mitnick waived his right to a speedy trial. I would guess that you have been foloowing the case from afar or living under a rock.
Why do we care? The only issue is that he was forced to wait so long without trial and sentencing. THAT is bad. Other than that, who cares, he is nothing more than a simple thief. I know, he stole MY card details.
We dont spend this much time examining the actions of someone that breaks into somebodies house, so why raise a common criminal into media stardom so they can go and earn a million selling the film rights.
I ask you, do YOU want to reward a thief for stealing?
Ignore the situation and it will go away.
Happiness is not a Constitutional right. IIRC it is a "God-given right" from the Declaration of Independence, but that holds no legal weight. I don't believe there is any law that says we are entitled to be happy. ;-)
Someday you'll graduate from school, and get a job in IT. When you do I hope some little jerk hacks into your systems and causes you to be on the receiving end of some of the same stuff Mitnick did. I hope you have to stay up til 3am, I hope you have to answer to bosses and sit in meetings with lawyers and suits talking about liability. I hope you get to watch the little jerk run free since the lawyers know they'll never make anything stick. Then we'll see what a great human being you think Mitnick is.
I don't care. I'm sick and tired of this "Well nobody deserves to be locked away without blah blah" hes a crook. I don't care. They got him on 1 thing and then they started holding him for all that other shit. So fucking what. While I bust my ass to make an honest living some fucker goes around ripping people off. When hes free, im going to hunt him down and kick him in the balls, once for every time i heard "FREE KEVIN!"
Since it seems like 90% of the replies are among the lines of "Oh no! He can't own a digital watch! Where has happened to the Constitution?" I figured I'd do some research and find out the facts.
This is an excerpt from the Petition For Writ of Ceratori in this case (the Free Kevin Mitnick site is citing this as "evidence" of cruel and unusual punishment):
A. Absent prior express written approval from the Probation Officer, the Petitioner shall not possess or use, for any purpose, the following:
1. any computer hardware equipment;
2. any computer software programs;
3. modems;
4. any computer related peripheral or support equipment;
5. portable laptop computer, 'personal information assistants,' and derivatives;
6. cellular telephones;
7. televisions or other instruments of communication equipped with on-line, internet, world-wide web or other computer network access;
8. any other electronic equipment, presently available or new technology that becomes available, that can be converted to or has as its function the ability to act as a computer system or to access a computer system, computer network or telecommunications network (except defendant may possess a 'land line' telephone);
B. The defendant shall not be employed in or perform services for any entity engaged in the computer, computer software, or telecommunications business and shall not be employed in any capacity wherein he has access to computers or computer related equipment or software;
C. The defendant shall not access computers, computer networks or other forms of wireless communications himself or through third parties;
D. The defendant shall not acts as a consultant or advisor to individuals or groups engaged in any computer related activity;
E. The defendant shall not acquire or possess any computer codes (including computer passwords), cellular phone access codes or other access devices that enable the defendant to use, acquire, exchange or alter information in a computer or telecommunications database system;
F. The defendant shall not use any data encryption device, program or technique for computers;
G. The defendant shall not alter or possess any altered telephone, telephone equipment or any other communications related equipment.
Jay (=
It was funny man, it doesn't matter what language it was written in. And maybe the guy wanted all his code on one line.
P.S. I may not program in Basic any more, but I started with it 15 years ago; old languages deserve respect!
Michael Gentili
- He's just some guy, you know?
Uh, since when do you lose your rights when you break the law? You lose your privilages as a free citizen, but not your rights.
Michael Gentili
- He's just some guy, you know?
I'd bet he could get three or four times that as an advance on a book, if he's even remotely capable of putting words on paper. Then go for the movie deal.
;)
Then Slashdot and Freshmeat could post articles about it, with links to the Amazon record for them, and can get free books and stuff! And pretend that's not what they're doing! Oh wait, this isn't the X10 thing.
J/K about the X10 thing... and no this isn't flaimbait, although I bet I get thwacked for it and lose a point or two.
Anyway, at least the scriptkiddies will have to come up with something more creative than "Free Kevin!" to stick on web pages. Maybe hack in links to X10.com!
I'd certainly buy his book...
your dick?
and get the proceeds? I'd buy his book. I won't see the movie. He may put quill to paper and come out allright after all. -Bobzibub
which means what? He had access to your CC number, which any company can get legally AND they're more likely to use it. He got 5 years for not being a company who is legally allowed to rip you off. I don't know about companies being able to access my credit card number without my giving it to them, but I have never heard of any legitimate organizations stealing from peoples accounts. But it is and should be illegal for some hacker to break into a server and steal my credit card number thank you. I'll never know why people love this thief so much. Maybe he didn't actually use my credit card but he did steal millions and millions of dollars worth of software from Motorola. I own Motorola stock so one can say that he stole from me.
No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... No Computers and No Beer make Mitnick something something... go crazy? Don't mind if I do!
You insult every hacker that ever lived on the face of the earth. You try to lower all hackers to the level of a mere cracker.
Sure, a car thief might call himself a mechanic, and some [idiot] reporter[s] might call him one, but that doesn't make him one.
It's really irritating when your reputation as part of a group gets defaced because someone calls himself "one of" you.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
According to this article Mitnick has been using a "government-approved" laptop, which he dual boots in Windows95 and Redhat Linux.
You lose your rights when you break the law. He should have thought of that in the first place. Without a trial? Uhm... The trial is over, if you read the article. He is guilty and he himself plead that way.
I am sick to death of hearing about this guy. What has he done for any of us? As a community or as individuals? Post everything you can think of, it's still a short list. The only reason his story has struck a chord with some people is that it looks like the little guy against the man, and that makes Americans go crazy.. we love that stuff. But the little guy is supposed to have some kind of virtue, and Kevin, whatever else you might say, hasn't shown any of that to the public. Interestingly absent from all discussion of his case is the word 'innocent'. He broke the laws of his country and he got caught. He is being punished for it. It takes more than that to be a hero, or so I would like to hope. The best thing you can say is that he was denied his constitutionally guaranteed speedy trial. But this just reflects poorly on our justice system, and doesn't do much for my impression of this crackerjack. The man is sick, yes, he is in a crummy position, yes, he was not granted a heaping constituional helping, perhaps... but a hero he is not. There are real heros, and there are Kevin Mitnicks, and I hope even the 2600 crowd knows the difference, despite the attention his story has drawn.
--
I'm getting sick of the "Free Mitnick" stuff going around...he screwed with people, and yes Virginia, he *did* deserve it. We are not talking about a light hacker or someone who cares about what they're doing from a tech standpoint...Mitnick did what he did to piss people off and get attention. That garbage with the pagers and stuff was flat out stupid. He's an advanced 3li3te kiddie. The guy could barely code, for crying out loud.
One less AOL-type in the world. Good. (No offense to those of you that aren't idiots and use AOL, if you exist.)
I read somewhere (probably on the highly unbiased site www.2600.com ;) ) that the file(s) of credit card numbers from netcom were floating around on web and bbs's anyway, and various people were downloading them and then using them as proof they were "elite" script kiddies or whatever.
I have never seen evidence that he actually caused monetary dammages to anyone. Of course people took panicked security measures after he broke in, but that isn't necessarily costs they wouldn't have eventually had to swallow anyway.
Of course, there are other "victimless" crimes we generally punish, like peeping toms or trespassing deer poachers or whatever. I'm not necessarily defending him, I'm just saying they didn't make their case, and I would have set him free had it been my decision; innocent until proven guilty and all that.
I am uncertain on the issue of the long delay in trial. Lots of people cite this as an abuse of government power and violation of the right to speedy trial; while I believe that prosecutors in this country systematically do that, I've heard it asserted that many of the delays were requested by Mitnick himself; and then also that Mitnick was forced to request these delays by the prosecutor and judge playing games in not allowing him to see the data.
If the FBI or another authority ever has reason to ask my assistence in a case of this sort, I will certainly bring up the bungling here and ask them how they plan to do better.
Stop using that word!!!!! He's a script kiddie, not at all the same.
1)Learn a different language. Respect for basic here can only be expressed in negative numbers.
2)Want to get rid of that "mushed onto one line" look? You can either change your mode to something other than "HTML Formatted" (If you log in you can even change your default) or you can add <BR> at the end of your lines.
1. Let us presume that he has done everything convicted of. This is now a safe assumption solely because he has now been (however unjustly) convicted. Under the terms of his release, he will not be able to (and this is the defense's list): "[A]ctivities in which the Petitioner is prohibited from engaging are:
-sending a letter a Senator via e-mail or using a word processor;
-playing a video arcade game;
-calling his family on a cellular telephone;
-working as a computer printer repairman;
-writing any type of computer software program (even using merely a pen and paper)
-accessing a public library's computerized card catalog."
2. Regardless of how you feel about the trial, surely it must strike you as rather odd that he was not allowed to review the evidence against him. (see the bottom of here) This is something all of us are allowed to do, as he should have been. Mind you, printing all this out and him reading it would be impossible, simply because most of the data is in a format that is best (or only) accessible on a computer. Even printing it would have taken weeks of valuable time.
3. Again, since he was convicted of all this bad-ass stealing from major companies, to the tune of multi-multi-million dollars, why was this loss not reported to shareholders? I happen to own both Sun and Motorola stock, and even did so at the time of the "crime," and my annual reports listed nothing of the sort. Sun even made a nice tidy profit from that year, with no major losses or charges. Motorola made an average profit and took a charge for the forming of their (sinking badly) Iridium group.
So, any satisfactory answers to these questions?
I was under the impression that the whole point of the "no computers" part of his sentence, was to try and put him so far behind the technology curve that it might be years, if ever before he caught up enough to be dangerous again. Most likely a fantasy, but I can see how the non-techie might think that would work.
=4!->=-+2+-=-!0=
Computer crime is an issue with which law enforcement and government officials are completely unequipped to deal with. Mitnick's case is only the latest example of a law enforcement action which more closely resembles the actions of Soviet Communism under Stalin than it does the polite propaganda on television. You may recall the 'hacker crackdown' of 1991-94 wherein Steve Jackson Games, a small wargame publisher, was put out of business by federal agents. They operated under a sealed warrent (meaning that it took Mr. Jackson's lawyers months to even find out what the charges were, and then discovered that there were NO charges, not one, not even hearsay.) Steve Jackson Games did not get their computer equipment returned from Federal seizure for years and not only were no charges ever filed, no charges were ever even contemplated against the company or it's employees. Was this the only example? No. Many individuals have been investigated, their computer equipment effectively confiscated by the federal government, merely for having participated in bulletin board or e-mail conversation with other individuals who have been at some time suspected of illegal activity. So far as computer security is concerned, the federal government increasingly seems to hold the belief that free speech is in itself a criminal offence. Does anyone remember 'Phrack'? They were shut down by the federal government for publishing information which was in actuality publically available; everything in that supposedly 'secret' Bellsouth memo was in fact available from Bellsouth's very own publications department. And the investigators and prosecutors KNEW that; this was in their view an excuse to shut down a publication which they, purely and simply, just plain didn't like. Time after time, in case after case, the federal government's pursuit of computer 'criminals' has resulted in the confiscation of private property without due process or in many cases, even an explanation; it has resulted in the destruction of personal and company reputations and the loss not only of income but of jobs and the destruction of careers. These aren't the criminals I'm talking about, these are people who have never been charged with any crime! Criminals get what they deserve (we hope,) but should your employer face a grilling from ominous FBI agents because you happened to exhange e-mail once with someone who had a handle? What would your continued job prospects be afterward? What if you came home to find that your wife had moved to her mother's because a round dozen FBI and ATF agents had broken your apartment door in an hour after you left for work, confiscating not only everything remotely related to computers but your telephone answering machine, VCR, and music CD collection as well, while she and your kid were held, literally, at gunpoint? What would your employers, friends, relatives, neighbors think about you afterwards? More ominously, increasingly Federal anti-hacker police prefer to operate under 'sealed' warrents, indictments, and evidence. This means that your property may be confiscated indefinetly without any explanation to you as to why; you may be publically investigated, embarrassed, humiliated with no charges ever filed, nor even an explanation; you may be imprisoned for months to years with no formal charges filed, no availability of bail and no evidence ever provided to anyone, you, your attorney, or even a judge, as to why; and finally you may be tried, fined, and imprisoned without ever hearing any 'evidence' which the government claims to hold against you, no opportunity to cross-examine witnesses, under sealed court order to not discuss any aspects of the case nor even its very existence with anyone else specifically including the press. I'm not arguing for Mitnick; so far as I'm concerned they can lock him up for the rest of his life. In a trial they'd have nailed his butt good. But I strongly object to arrest, detention, prosecution, and punishment carried out in secrecy. In my view this is literally an issue which outweighs anything any hacker has ever done (at least, to my knowledge,) and it frustrates the hell out of me to see supposedly intelligent people who ought to know better cheering these storm troopers on. There: now I feel better! :)
Kevin got kicked out of LA Pierce College more than once. Once while he suspended he got caught backing up the microVax in our lab to his tape. Kevin was compulsive about his cracking. He needed help to control his impulsive behavior back in the early 1980's has never got the help he needed. Prison probably did little to cure his compulsions. Since Kevin can use a computer he can just watch over our shoulders and ask us lots of questions until his punishment time is up. At DefCon last month, a panel of Feds spoke to the audience in the main hall. They seemed to admit that Mitnick was being made an example of by the Federal Govt. The civilian in charge of securing the US Army's IT infrastructure pleaded with the crowd to "not hack us until after this Y2K thing is over with." Will Kevin Mitnick be able to resist his urges to crack into other peoples computers? I think everyone should be allowed to break into there own computers. Cheers, gbs
>He can't use computers or cellular phones "without the permission of his probation officer."
His PO does not HAVE to give him permission.
>The "can't drive a car" comment, and its ilk, are just BS.
If they REALLY want to make an example of him, driving a car that has a computer in it, or using a radio with a digital tuner could constitute a violation of his parole and get him put back in the pokey.
Never underestimate the power of an asshole cop.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Me, personally, if I was subjected to the same situation, I'd probably plead guilty in an instant. Pride is nice, but when you've been jerked around with for YEARS by the Fed. Gov., do you really want to prolong it when you are reasonably sure that a guilty plea will get you out of their greedy little paws in a few months?
Maybe he could have won a trial, but he'd be an idiot to have tried.
The amount of restitution is completely arbitrary. The judge neither likes Mitnick nor has any idea what she's talking about regarding computers.
It's hard to say what he's barred from using exactly, but one would imagine that it wouldn't be enforced too strictly (ATMs, microwaves, etc.) although the Gov. certainly could if it wanted to (which may be the case).
--Andrew Grossman
grossdog@dartmouth.edu
>Many states specifically deny criminals the right to collect proceeds from "how/why-I-did-it"types of stories.
I do not know if any of those states deny the ability to profit to relatives. IE, Kevin's grandmother should be able to rake in a fair bit of cash with her "I helped raise a Hacker" story. With Kevin taking a fair bit of the profits for helping her write the screenplay.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Like all lamers supporting Nitwit, it's very convenient to blame someone else for your problems. Never under any circumstances accept responsibility for your actions. If the prick hadn't done what he did, he wouldn't be in a position to get fucked. So no, YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP.
>>The standard procedure with most breakins is to reinstall the system from scratch and add all the vendor patches/fixes that are applicable. Not only does this take up the sysadmin's time but it prevents anyone from using the system while its being repaired. Ummm.... sysadmins should be doing this anyway... a break in does not FORCE the sysadmin to fix the hole. He COULD leave it just the way it was found. If the cracker does not trash the system, and only snags data, then the system is NOT affected, and it costed the company NO money. Its the companies OWN decision to upgrade their software and be more secure.... again, the sysadmin should already be doing this or he's not doing his job and needs to be fired.
but I would have to think that Kevin wouldn't be able to do much damage nowadays, seeing that he has been pretty much under a rock for the past seven or so years, so he's probably pretty behind the times tech-wise. He's got a lot of catching up to do.
spoo
i would have to say: 1. kevin is very blessed 2. he had a very good fucking lawyer 3. it was his birthday present for realla To watch the goveren come to some semblest of having sense is amazing. mind you this poor man has spent a long time locked up for them to figure out how to save face for having exactly "Not Much on Him", and wait for all the HYPE to die and him to be forgotten. (NOT!) and that is the true shame of it all. it could happen to any of us....... PEACE...
views expressed are a manifestation of my own fragile eggshell mind
Yes, murderers get less time (rarely). The idea is that, okay, someone gets in a fit of rage, is drunk and stuff (you'd have to have a lot of extenuating circumstances to get that little time for murder), and they lose control and kill someone. They get out of jail and lead an exemplary life afterwards. Mitnick got a light sentence for his first few offenses, but as soon as he got out he started commiting crimes again. They'd put him in for a little while, take him out, he'd run out and start committing crimes again. That's why he got so much time. They gave him lots of chances, and he wouldn't reform. This is not exactly like putting a 15-year old script kiddie in prison. He knew darn well what he was doing, and he has to be ready to pay the price for it if he gets caught.
to work on this windows2000test thing?
It'd be stupid to have hackers judging a hacker. *That* is an impartial jury. The peers are the people that have to live with him if he gets out of prison...and in lots of cases, these are non-hackers. Do they not get represented by American justice?
I mean, what if Mafia members could only be judged by the Mafia (well, they were unofficially...). That's stupid.
Sort of as a replacement for their floppies that went CD? I could go for that.
Finally what did he put you through anyway; did he ever actually use your credit card # to buy anything?
Didn't think so.
You know, all those cracked sites saying "FREE KEVIN" may have helped the prosecution win. We all know the U.S.'s policy about terrorists: nobody pushes us around.
The gov't/justice system may have responded to these "acts of terrorism" by making an example of Mitnick.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Stop bitching [sorry], and cussing about the unfairness of his sentencing terms or why he should be in jail for life, BTW im rob s. AKA Trapper, never had the initiative to sign in. Every single one of you thinks that it is impossible to live without a computer. Get out people. There is more to life than "hacking" or "cracking". Life is beautiful, it really is. Get out have a drink, tell a couple jokes, we're people too. I may be ruining geek culture, but I have a life. I have a tan too. So to all the script kiddies, get out, and find some friends and drink. Im serious drink, you're far more productive that way. Please tell me what you think. robswin@hempseed.com "Love is hell." - DMB, Halloween
There may be laws written by idiots that use "hacking" in their title, but they ban what Mitnick did, which was *not* hacking. Breaking into someone else's computer doesn't make you a hacker any more than hotwiring someone else's car makes you a mechanic.
Some idiot said:
>Stay on the right side of the law and you needn't worry about these things.
I hope that was a troll.
So the US Constitution's laws regarding the rights of prisoners do not apply to people who committed crimes?
Well, since no one in the eyes of the law has committed a crime until they have been tried and convicted(or plead guilty), then we have to strip away these rights from people the government accused of crimes. Therefore, Abner Louima(sp?) was treated fairly and justly by the New York police department, because he wouldn't have been in their custody if he hadn't been accused of a crime, would he? He has no rights and shouldn't complain; He gets what's coming.
And why leave it at just those people that the gov't accuses of crimes? Since crimes are committed in the public sector, the public is naturally more aware of who commits crimes and people accused by the public of being criminals should also lose all of their rights.
"Yassee, we hung this heyah niggah because he's a niggah, theyafohr he musta done it."
These ideas of yours, if widely implemented, would probably see the number of lifetime criminals decrease as hundreds of prisoners get shot 'trying to escape' from the conditions in the new, tough prisons.
The incentive to commit crimes will decrease as certain good citizens, usually men of great wealth and high standing in local society, are somehow able to know who has committed certain arsons, drug dealings, robberies, and assassinations. The persons fingered will always claim their innocence, but their alibies hold no water against their identification by such highly respected people and they are rightly sent off to prison for a long time if the vigilantes don't get to them first. For some reason, despite these criminals' jailings and executions, the actual number of crimes committed does not decrease. I guess it is up to someone of your mental magnitute to figure out a reason why.
-Perpetual Newbie
Didn't I see you pocket a box of milk duds at the supermarket?
*ka-click*
First off wasn't Tamagotchi Shomimura some type of security expert of some sort? It seems to be the case if he actually went and tracked him down. If he was such a "securityspert" why didn't he secure his boxen?
Entrapment I say. Kevin was a nobody who couldn't code in basic.
Want Root?
Look out! SILICON KNIGHT 0wNz j00z! He's 31337, just like Mitnick!
The "no computers" provision is just stupid. Computers are in everything these days. When money launderers are given probation, I don't hear about them not being allowed to use cash for 3 years. People who write bomb threats aren't barred from using pen and paper.
Also, I think some people need their heads readjusted, judging by some of the comments here. He is not a danger to society - he is not a violent criminal. Violent criminals deserve to be shut away for life, not petty thieves. If i met Mitnick in the street, I would not be afraid in the slightest, since he has not shown a tendancy to harm anyone.
Also, the court decided on $4000 restitution. I guess we can see what the court thought of Sun, et al's, $80 million+ claims.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
yay, no more Free Mitnick weefles.
Good that it is getting resolved at last.
Linux may suck, but ol' kevin certainly won't be able to decide for himself for a few more years...
-Chris
Hands off that egg timer! You're under arrest! ;)
I think you can figure out how to email me
I think you can figure out how to email me
PGP Key:
Finally someone can do something about that damn LinuxPPC box besides talk talk talk -- Eh? Whazzat? He can't use a computer for 3 years?
Oh. Nevermind.
**>>BELCH
Now what good can come from banning a hacker from using a computer? Surely that is an unconstitutional violation of the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishments!
It seems sort of like banning prostitutes from having sex or embezzelers from owning or using money. I guess when they do that I'll believe again in "equal protection under the law".
Geeky modern art T-shirts
He could write it, and place it on the Net. Give a copy to the Guttenburg Project. In the text, he could ask for donations. If someone were to mail hime money out of the goodness of thier heart for a story they read for free, then it would be a gift, and not an earning, right?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
At least now with the state charges dropped, and the issue of restitution settled, there is light at the end of the tunnel for Kevin. Guilty or not, no man should deserve to go through what he has to go through. If he had been trialed fairly in front of a jury of his peers (and, does such a thing exist for Mitnick? Where are you going to find 12 hackers to judge him?) I probably would not feel as strongly about this case. But, for a government to strip someone of his rights like this, hold someone for years without trial, deny them the right to review their evidence, etc, etc... that sets an extremely dangerous presidence. My bumper sticker is staying on my backpack, my door, my computer. Even when he is a free man, we must not forget what had happened. "Those who don't learn history is bounded to repeat it" -=- Silicon Knight
Bernie S. was screwed . . . He was the guy that got beaten by another inmate because we was on the phone. I really feel sorry for that guy, not so much for Mitnick.
as soon as his sentence is up, couldn't he just leave the country and immediately get his PC back?
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
Do you think anyone will send him a free PC after the 3 years? That would be great publicity...
Um, this is my sig.
I've been reading news items on this guy for a while, and I still don't know what he's charged with/done.
-Billy
The woes of not learning how to touch-type...
Ever heard of Web TV ? ;}
Are you stupid or something? "He stole my creditcard number but did nothing with it" What if your brother(or somethig) took your wallet, gave it back to you and told you that you should keep a better eye on it. Whould you insist on having him thrown in jail?
LINUX stands for: Linux Inux Nux Ux X
FRA: STFU GTFO
Besides, doing 50+ months in jail is more than plenty for having some fun. at least they did drop the outrageous "restitution" demands.
Uh, hacking *is* a crime. Enforcement doesn't usually crack down on people that do it in a light or non malicious way, which is already pretty weak on hacking. Kevin was a repeat offender, he had harassed people, he wouldn't get a solid job to support himself, he was an all-around prick to the people around him, and he really did cause a lot of damage (yes, the claims were inflated, but it ain't cheap to ensure that your entire network is clean). Suppose I think that your opinion is freaking stupid. Suppose my idea of fun is running freaking stupid people over in trucks. So I run you over in a truck. "But, Your Honor -- I was just having some fun -- that punishment seems excessive!" It wasn't "some fun" to the people he attacked.
And he *should* have paid some form of restitution. He's been breaking into stuff and causing hassles without ever paying to solve the problems that he makes for too many years. He'd stop faster if he got a fine in addition to his jail time.
Don't know what due process is do you AC? Hint...5th amendment...mitnick had it, he pled guilty.
Yeah, five years is just soooooo damn long, even if the criminals are guilty. Let's empty the jails now!
Oh gawd. You really think that's what a jury of one's peers means? I guess you think there should've been 12 football players on the O.J. jury, ya dumb dunce.
Yes! You're finally catching on! See Kevin break the law. See Kevin go to jail. See Kevin's ass get raped on a regular basis. Now if everyone would not forget that, and would prefer that the same thing doesn't happen to them, maybe they won't break the law in the future. If they haven't gotten the message yet, I'm not going to be crying any tears when they become some convict's bitch.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Perhaps. But how about if you jump the red light and in so doing peoples lives are in peril? Yes! that should be a life sentence too. To be sure. And why not? your crime is far worse than that of a cracker.
And how about when you are speeding on the interstate when one mistake can get 20 other cars to pile behind you?. Twenty life sentences then, to be sure...
You know it used to be when someone had a user id on /. it actually meant something. Well some day you'll grow up and see how silly your misled support is. Oh and do you think you could come up with a better ending to your posts then "didn't think so"? It really makes you look ignorant. Didn't think so
Your a bunch of fucking idiots.... He was forced into signing away his right to a speedy trial and the law fucked him for a good long time.... If you havent read all the material.... SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!
I bet the law's not the only one that's fucked Kevin for a good long time. If he's looking for a job but is unable to use a computer, perhaps he should consider the exhilarating world of male prostitution. After all, he's spent five years behind bars, so he probably gives better blow jobs than Monica Lewinsky.
Fry Kevin.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
Mitnik was doing things that are against the law. He wasn't just "hacking" for knowledge and whatnot. He was doing things that are blatantly illegal. He deserves to serve jail time. Granted, he should have had a trial and probably should have been granted bail, but maybe even that isn't such a good idea because he was on the run from federal agents for about 2 years. So yeah, maybe banning him from using computers *is* a good idea.
My uncle shared a cell with Kevin. He said he's a nice guy, but he squeels too much at night and the guards keep shining their lights in the cell.
Mitnick did nothing illegal. If you review the case you will see that law was applied by way of ANALOGY... these analogies fall apart under careful scrutiny, as do most attempts at retroactive legal reasoning. The end - punishment for things NOW considered a crime - does not justify the means. Um, and how about a speedy trial? Do you believe in Constitutional rights? Do you believe other U.S. citizens should have these same rights?
Alright ... think quickly -- um, what crime did Mitnick commit? He did nothing illegal which is why he was held for over a year withOUT trial. Who committed the crime here? The Federal government by way of the FBI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you can answer the crime question, then answer the following: Specific to Mitnick's actions, who was hurt and in what way? (besides himself) In others words, why is he paying restituion to society?
>>I mean, c'mon. The guy can't possibly get a decent paying job if he can't use a computer!
>Yeah, and they won't let convicted child molesters use their elementary school teaching certification, either.
>I can't wait for the first time Mitnick says "Fries with that, sir?", especially because it's all his own fault.
Mitnick can't even say "Fries with that, sir?" because working at McDonalds requires USING A COMPUTER! Read the arguement you are replying to.
It's like disallowing someone who stabbed someone from using silverware. A previous poster stated that the could have disallowed Mitnick from having a network card or modem, which is a little more reasonable.
how could they give him life for not doing anything. come on.. look at the charges.. hacking into Norad? thats bullshit. its kinda hard to do when Norad doesn't have any lines to access
What a bunch of gloopy crap, no t.v.? What is he going to do, crack into the net through a t.v.? I know he's good but yobe that govno in the yobing rot!
He commited a crime, he paid the price. He's out of jail after a reasonable amount of punishment. Sounds good to me. 3 years? Bah he's already done that time in the slammer, i'm sure he can get by without using a comuter. All the FR33 K3V1N skript kiddies can shut up now. BTW, I'm sure he can still drive cars and use microwave ovens, tv's and stereos.
.....look at what happened to Bernie S.
http://www.2600.com/law/bernie.html
For every annoying gentoo user, are three even more annoying anti-gentoo crybabies. Take Yosh from #Gimp for example.
There is a halfway house for computer thieves? Martha Stewart's house?
He can't use computers or cellular phones "without the permission of his probation officer."
The "can't drive a car" comment, and its ilk, are just BS.
"People" using "unnecessary" quotes should be "shot".
Thats got to be wierd for Kevin.. I wonder if he was kept informed what was going on in the computing industry, or if he was in a dark hole somewhere. imagine... does he have any idea about all the free unices that are now running around and all that stuff? wheres he gonna start! like a kid in a candy store
Sweet Jesus, can we at least READ the article before submitting inane comments? I think it is safe to say that his P.O. will give him permission to use VCR's.
Here in the Real World, we have things like trade secrets and attorney-client privilege, and losing control of these can immediately ruin you.
This Mitnick character looks at a data file with some oh-so-precious credit card numbers, he doesn't even actually use any of those numbers to rip off any merchandise, and you know as well as I do that Motorola's claim that Mitnick cost them "millions" is just so much bullshit; those Motorola lawyers should get jail time themselves for perjury. And for this big-deal crime he get to sit in prison for four years plus.
Well, I had one buddy who got shot in the stomach, deliberately, with a bullet out of a gun, and the guy who did it got out after nineteen months. And I knew another guy twenty years ago, the brother of a girl I knew, who got shot dead, and the bastard who killed him, claiming he did it in self-defense - an obvious lie if you knew the victim - actually got off scot-free.
You call this justice? Here, I've got some sing-song for you too:
Why don't you take your dumb damn rhyme
and stuff it where the sun don't shine?
Wouldn't it be horribly funny if the judge sentenced him to pay $31337 in restitution? I know I'd laugh.
C'mon, knock off the semantic games already. Sheesh, people, he's not barred from using every single thing that can remotely fall under the definition of a computer or having a computer inside of it. Let's have a little realism, please.
He used a computer to commit his crimes, so it doesn't seem surprising that he's not going to be able to use one for a while. People who write bomb threats are often forbidden from writing any kinds of letters to authorities, threatening or not, and pen and paper have other important uses than writing mail. I can buy the argument that barring him only from networked computers would have been sufficient, but I'm not sympathetic since it was his own decision to plead guilty instead of taking his case to a jury.
As far as I'm concerned, people who break into other people's property are plenty of an annoyance to society to send them to jail for a while, both to get them to knock it off and to dissuade other people from doing the same. And I'm definitely for throwing people away for a larger amount of time if they don't get the message and instead become repeat offenders, like Mitnick.
If I met him in the street, I'd probably just laugh at him. Other than that, as long as he's paid his debt to society, I'm willing to give him a fair shake. If he screws up again, I hope he gets more time, though.
As for the $4K restitution, your argument doesn't really hold up -- read the article again. First, the government was only seeking $1.5 million. Second, the judge believed that "the damages were much larger" (whether she means much larger than the $4K or much larger than the $1.5M, I can't tell), but she knew that he wouldn't be able to pay that much.
In her ruling, she said, "I want something that he can be ordered to pay, no matter what, because I'll know he has the ability to pay. I want to make a restitution order that is much, much larger. But I can't be sure he can pay it, and any non-payment is going to be a violation of the terms of his release." (Emphasis mine.)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
First of all I would like to say that i think that Kevin Mitnick is a criminal and should be punished for his actions.
However, as a principle, nobody should have to wait 53 months for their trial no matter the circumstances.
This happens in a country that prides itself with being the land of freedom. When are you going to snap out of it?
I believe that he broke into computer systems that he was not authorized to use. That consitutes a crime. Specific to Mitnick's actions, who was hurt and in what way?
Regardless of whether he did any actual damage to the systems intentionally, the fact that he broke in meant that the sysadmin of the system had to put in a bunch of time to fix it up.
The standard procedure with most breakins is to reinstall the system from scratch and add all the vendor patches/fixes that are applicable. Not only does this take up the sysadmin's time but it prevents anyone from using the system while its being repaired.
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
Unfortunately this trial had nothing to do with any crime of Mitnick. He wasn't the center of this trial, he was merely some poor computer guy that did the wrong thing at the wrong time. Computer crimes are fast becoming a crime of unpopularity in this country. More and more people are using computers than ever before, and hardly any of them know how it works. Then they hear news reported by plastic talking heads that have no idea how it works. They hear bad things about what hackers can do. They see movies about hackers stealing identities and such. They're frightened. And instead of finding out how to protect themselves they are lashing out at the most convenient "evil computer guy." Fear, ignorance, anger, and frustration in a society add up to an organized witch hunt to find the hacker and make him/her pay for being smarter than them.
"There is nothing more intimidating than an idiotic smile worn by a manifest non-idiot." --unknown
Are you on crack????
People get less time for MURDER than Kevin has spent in jail already. I think people should be punished for crimes......but only a 'tard could think this has been fair.
46 Months MINUS time served, does this mean they give him 7 months BACK somehow? Since he's been in for 53? I don't get it. I guess he better not buy a digital watch anytime soon. My Casio has more memory than my first "computer" seems to have.
I like music
...but the average person doesn't know what it takes to crack into a remote host. I know people who don't realize that you have to connect to the internet to check their email. Why should we think the judge was any different? The court could have banned him from putting a modem/network card on his comp and done the job just as well. Most people, including those in the justice system, are totally braindead when it comes to computers, and it's in cases like this where it shows.
IMHO, the guy was a petty theif and deserved what he got. But it's the principle behind it that irks me.
I think you can figure out how to email me
I think you can figure out how to email me
PGP Key:
Let's see... popular articles on /. get some 300 replies. Suppose half of those are from people who support Mitnick to some extent. That's $27.50 each to pay off his fine.