Slashdot Mirror
News Flash: Gamers Aren't Deviants
shadowlight1 writes "Maximumpcmag.com has a short bit on how an independent survey about gamers reveals that most are college educated, socially adjusted males..not the social outcasts the media portrays.
" It saddens me to see that it takes "lab results" to confirm this.
it is truely sad that us "gamers" must be stereo typed and misunderstood. being an only child, video games were sometimes the only thing i had growing up; and to think that people think something is wrong with that is bewildering. same ol' story of ignorance and prejudgice i guess.
Well, actually back when Doom was out one of the guys where i work created a level that was exactly like the building we work in. The elevators and stairwells were all in there proper place. We didn't have marketing and accounting people to shoot though. ;-)
Non gratis rodentus anus
Comment removed based on user account deletion
speaking of deviants, at the latest QCon, a guy from Canada named George won by a fairly wide margin, and can now arguably be called the best Q3 player in the world. I know George personally. George holds several national track records. George is also one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. hmm. kinda puts that whole "kids who play games are pyshco hermits who kill people" idea to shame, no?
You're right. It was there and then it disappeared. You can't get there from there but I think you can get there from here http://slashdot.org/article.pl? sid=99/08/11/2156215. Some people seem to be posting to it without noticing the main page disappearance. Anyone who knows what's going on, feel free to tell the rest of us.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
It sends the message that PCXL is a very silly magazine. =^) They don't take anything very seriously and like to play around with the typical 'gamer' stereotypes. It's interesting, though, that they mock one of those stereotypes (with all the girlfriend jokes) while reinforcing another (all the half-naked women)-- it reads kinda like PC Gamer meets Playboy on crack.
--
It is Scientific! Considering that through verifiable scentific statistical fomulas...it takes roughly 3000 people to represent the entirity of the american population ( over 250 million), 750 people are ample for the gaming populous across america. I highly doubt that the Gaming populous exceeds more than 3 million across america. Take for example THECLQ, (www.theclq.com) which tracks players of Shogo, Quake2, Quake3, Half Life, and tribes. The entirity of the people tracked totalys just over 1.5 million more often than not. This 1.5 million can be taken as a sample of of the entirity of a not much larger population. 750 people is more than enough to get results that can be trusted. Also due to the Central Limit Theorem and normal distributions...the representative numbers for each age group will not be evenly distributed. Odds are a graphical distribution of the people in the poll woul be skewed right (giving a higher population for the younger ages). So...this survey IS valid...surveys that have press realeases like this are so scrutinized..its lunacy to call it invalid!
Women don't play? Perhaps not in Western cuulture so much, bu heck, my gf is always asking me to go to the aracdes, play Age of Empires. The arcades I go to, full of asian females playing games. Probably first dragged along by their boyfriends> I'd swear I'd never to that to my girlfriend, but it kindof doesn't count when she *wants* to go. Happiness is a partner who enjoys video games (and pinball, I love pinball).
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
Final Mortal QuakePong Brothers III-D
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
When I see stories like this, I always wonder if the media is, in effect, making up their own stereotypes - AFAIK I've never actually known anybody who thinks gamers are deviant social outcasts. Could it be that these "conventional stereotypes" are just self-propagating media noise, or is it instead that the people I know are atypical?
Also, I found it slightly amusing that those people 'dubbed themselves "gamecentrics"' - when I'd bet it was the company itself that used the term.
AMEN brother!! ;)
I think everyone is missing the basic point. Who has $2500+ to blow on a little hobby? It isn't going to be poor folk.
Women don't play because they didn't started to as kids, and there is a minimum level of games understanding that people need to have before they are comfortable playing a new game. I can go pick up any game and play comfortably in minutes. My sister cannot.
My question is, what did game playing replace as far as hobbys went. Was it sports (doubt it)? Or television? Beer brewing? Hardcore drug use? The Simpsons?!!!
Well, if this is true then nobody knows how to play quake on the pub servers - "only 16% know how to circle-strafe".
This must translate to: 84% use zbot to assist with their aiming, because they don't know how to properly navigate.
Sad. I'm not sure what to make of this - I'm better than 98% of quake players, but that isn't saying much if 84% of them suck worse than Bill Clinton. No, wait... that's not what I meant...
--
Mario Kart?
That's extremely humorous.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
You are right on the mark. The key thing is that the media thinks "People who play games must get a kick out of violence, so therefore they are more likely to start shooting random people". The main problem with that is that they don't make the distinction between "I think violence is fun" and "I don't respect the rights of others". It takes both to make a madman. There are many people who think killing animated monsters in the computer is fun, but who also respect the rights of real people. And, sadly, there are many people who do not respect the rights of others, even if they don't play Quake. Each of these traits by themselves are o.k. (well not respecting the rights of others isn't). The problem is when people like computer violence *and* don't respect the rights of others. Then they view humans no differently than Quake monsters, and that's when trouble starts.
Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
.
I used to read Computer Gaming World in high school and such. They kept a running total on their target demographic...which was exactly the same as this study pointed out. Nothing really interesting other than the fact that only 16% of "gamers" can rocket jump.
/.ers, maybe 99.5-99.7%.
I wonder what that % is for
Quake is only evil in the amount of time it takes from your normal life. Of course using that as a measurement makes it EXTREMELY evil, or maybe that should be fun, maybe they are the same, and that's why its evil, hmmmm.
+&x
If you noticed, it said that 752 United Statesians and Canadians were surveyed/studied..... which I think is a very small number. Too small, IMHO, for this survey to be considered accurate by any means.
However, I'd also like to add that I think that the results are a good thing, esp. since it seems everybody's going to take them anyway (well, ok, probably not everbody.. I didn't reall all the comments)... I just think that a broader and more thorough survey should be done.
Insert mind here.
>What haircut?
Yeah. Really. I haven't had a haircut in 3 years (no seriously, I haven't.. I'm getting one this friday, although, I can't remember how painful they are, it has been so long...)
[sarcasm]
two things.. you are an anonymous coward, so we cannot trace your identity, and even if what you claim is true, you are only one person, not a representation of the majority.
So, HA!
You lose MP games? Well, then... Netrek. 3:00. Tomorrow. Demon.Net's server. You be there? :)
Seriously, though... I used to be pretty decent with Team Fortress for Quake 1, but those days are long past... indeed, winning seems to have less to do with knowledge of tactics and strategies than I'd like it to. Ahh, well.
Hmm, I think people want to make games for women (money talks a lot more loudly than sexism, IMHO) but they just don't know how. I mean my favorite game series is Resident Evil I don't think the characters in that are barbie doll types (*shrug* don't jump down my throat I just don't see Jill and Claire that way, unfortunately we end up with a matter of personal taste here which gets turned into a political issue.) but when my female friends tried to play it they got intimidated by the UI (though they liked the idea of the game it has a high learning curve, I'm not picking on women here I've known plenty of guys who have the exact same problem with the RE games.) and the only game they want to play lately is Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo (though I can also get one of them to play Street Fighter, the other finds it too masculine.) Since I like playing games with my friends, I keep looking for multiplayer games that will appeal to them but... I haven't hit on a formula that works yet.
I'm thinking maybe something like Diablo would be good for online, but there is a stubborness in both of them that "women have better things to do with their time than play games." This is an attitude I get from my Mom and my sister too, so I'm not sure if the mega-appealing female game just hasn't arrived or women really just mostly feel this way.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
and not automatons controlled by a metally impaired government.
Yeah. I always thought that the Treasury should use more nickel in their Nickels.
Who pays for commercials? Who makes the big campaign contributions?
"X = X" is tautology, not conspiracy.
Must sign off, I'm conspiring to take myself to lunch.
Fear my wrath, please, fear my wrath?
Homer
We apologize for the inconvenience.
It saddens me also to know it takes a study to find this out....
Maybe someone should do a survey on how many writers for the media are actually humans and not automatons controlled by a metally impaired government.
Don't most "gamers" like to buy
the latest, fasted equipment? They
help pay for development, driving the
cost down for the rest of us.
Hey, "gamers" start buying Athlon
machines like crazy! I'd like to
upgrade sometime next year, for cheap!
Thanks.
Nor realistic. I've never heard of any group doing anything of the sort, and I'm sure if one did it'd be plastered all over the media.
With regard to the idea that this study proves that gamers aren't deviants, is it saying that they would be if they were female, or poor, or married?
The only actual factor that I can see that might get someone labeled "deviant" in the usual sense is the degree of social adjustment. However, the article doesn't give any evidence to support the idea that gamers are generally well-adjusted socially.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that this study simply supports the generally accepted notions of the "gamer" demographic, and that the people outside of that demographic (married, poor, and female) are logically the "deviants".
you must be on crack. our media loves shitting on our government.
The problem with journalists is that they are experts on journalism, and nothing else. so anytime theres a journalist writing about anything that isnt journalism, they probably dont know what the hell they are talking about.
-I go to Rice, so figure out my email address
A world where we can win, of course.
... how many thousands of these studies will have to be published before the media/government/general public catches snap to this notion? I'll probably have died of old age by the time the idea that "computers games make kids kill" is a dead issue. Today's parents need *someone* to blame for their parental inadequacies.
jetpack
See John. See John play Quake. See John frag everyone in the level. See John turn off his computer, hop in his car, and go to work JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NORMAL HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET. (Unless of course he's playing Quake AT work, in which case he's just like me.
So now, when a media outlet says something to the effect of "This guy walked into his office, took out an automatic weapon, and started splashing bullets everywhere killing 72 co-workers, and injuring 13. He then went outside, stripped naked, and ran down the street shooting pedestrians. We think it's because he played Doom a lot.", we'll have scientific backing to OUR side of the argument. pfft.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Yeah, they interviewed me for that study. Good thing I had cleaned up all that animal blood and moved the human skulls to the basment the night before (company was coming over). Also my had made Quake 3 "sequined death-gown" was at the dry cleaners.
I am not surprised by the higher salary level. These days, to be a serious gamer, it takes some serious cash.
We decided to try to verify these results down here at AC Labs and here's what WE turned up: 100% of the gamers we polled said "Slashdot Sux d00d!" 98% of the gamers we polled spend 16 hours a day playing Quake 3. 80% of the gamers we polled are aged 16 or younger and own between 1 and 3 handguns. 72.454% of the gamers we polled plan to do something "Uniquely American and Violent" within the next 8 months. 28% of the gamers we polled have or plan to have a high school diploma. 3.14159% of them apparently practised anything even resembling hygene. Of the 20% of the gamers older than 16 polled, 17% were gainfully employed. 80% of that 17% worked at McDonalds, Target, K-Mart or Burger King. 100% of this group were virgins. 98% of them have never had a relationship with a girl. 4% of them were gay. 2 of them hit on the lab attendants and required a small administration of electroshock thearapy (*Tazer) to get back in line. That 4% also admitted to posing as females on MUDs and IRC. Results: AC Labs concludes that the gaming community is openly psychotic and anti-social. AC Labs suggest that any parent who notices their child playing computer games should seek immediate assistance from a child psychologist and/or local social worker. Medication (Lithium, Prozac, Xannex, Ritalin) is highly reccomended. Under no circumstances give in to demands for a "Little GI Joe automatic weapon" play set.
Next thing you know, we'll be seeing another "scientific study" unequivocably demonstrating that nearly 95% of all North American television watchers are not social outcasts or latent psychopaths.
oh please ... geeks are geeks ... they always have been ... just because playing games is becoming more mainstream so that non geeks are playing as well doesn't mean geeks aren't geeks
... it's that they are absolutly obsessive about things no one else would care about ... "oh oh in eq today i found at the exact point that a creature turns blue to green" ... that is just to exiting for words ... i'm so thrilled i think i might scream ...
... but they still can't sit thru one meal without droning on at length about every singly various detail of the same game they have been playing for weeks ...
... that would be why i married one
and it's not that they are socially deformed or whatever
they may learn to be "normal, well adjusted, productive, pleasent memebers of society"
but ya know
if knowledge is power, the internet is god - me again
or better yet let me deviate off topic.
I dont htink i've noticed this before but what just happened to the RedHat/sec thread that was posted after this one? Someone made Rob take it off or what? If you click on the redhat logo to get a list off all the redhat stories, it's not there either. Maybe I'm being overly paranoid. Moderate down at will. =P
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
...is that it's considered newsworthy to have this viewpoint expressed in the media.
Tort
I bet it was all those Linux freaks, with bad haircuts and poor personal hygiene
;-)
What haircut?
I'm not sure I like your sarcastic tone. You know, not all of us Linux advocates are the straight-laced $100,000/year IT managers that get all of the press. Some of us are just normal geeks. This is probably just another Microsoft weenie trying to cast us all as stock-greedy suits!
BUAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
:)
That was truly great.
For just a split second I thought it was a real article and it didn't surprise me one bit...
I wear pants.
"For just a split second I thought it was a real article and it didn't surprise me one bit..."
Me too!
Man.. That's sad. Proof that our media is just really really really really lame.
*sigh*
We have all been brain washed.
l8r
Sean
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
One one small thing about your reply. I don't think 'media' is really it .. I was referring to many people - including some from the media. I hate to point fingers, cause it always ends up getting blown off.
Garret
"Old man yells at systemd"
If they do that, they won't get any ratings.
This was not written by me. Sorry.
Heres the part many people don't see:
/think/ are in danger, there should simply be more focus in our society towards maintaining tolerance, patience, and an understanding that being picked on/isolated/teased is not justification for retribution, but rather motivation to keep on being superior life forms than the aggressors.
......
1. A kid who plays Quake all the time is not hurting anyone. Sure, you can claim he's being influenced while he's playing, but only few people are influenced, and even less into doing deviant things because of it.
2. A kid who ping floods sites for fun is MUCH more likely to do something violent IMHO (of course, most never do, but I'm just saying this is more of an indicator than watching/interacting with pretend violence). Why? This type of action displays a much greater disregard for the respect of others, and their property. But people don't see this. They see the blood in Quake, they think blood. Ping flooding may not be violent, but it says to me that the guity party is more likely to disrespect the laws of society. Now don't get all up in arms. I'm just taking two activities, and pointing out where society seems to go wrong in analysing the people doing them.
3. You can't predict people. End of story. There has always, will always be murder. Sometimes you can spot it, other times you can't. But rather than targeting the ones we
The important part here is distinguishing the underlying context of the activity/hobby. Something doesn't have to look violent to influence people into being more violent. But still, we take everything at face value
Just my 2 bits.
"Old man yells at systemd"
[sarcasm]
Well, you have to consider the source of the lab tests, as well as their results. You have to consider who commissioned the study, and what they have to gain by skewing the results in their favor.
I bet it was all those Linux freaks, with bad haircuts and poor personal hygiene, that are responsible. I bet that they took all of their spare change (and God knows they have plenty, since they don't buy software, but rather use Free software) and paid for a statistically unsound study, to make it appear that they are not really the sociopathic axe-murdering, rapist pedophiles that we all know they are.
I'm sure that they selected only a fringe of the college educated, gainfully employed, and self-proclaimed 'normal' people, and didn't include a representative sample of their own minions in the study.
For as surely as the sun riseth in the east, and seteth in the west at the end of the day, so doth Heaven await those who tread the path of righteousness, and heed not the words of the devil. Verily, they that playeth his acursed 'lectronic games and heedeth his call on the internet, shall burn eternally!
Whilst they that believeth in the word of Big Daddy, J.C. and the Holy Spook, as delivered by the prophets of the ABC, the NBC, the CBS and the CNN shall inherit the life eternal, with none of the distractions of no such beepin' and Quakin', Doomin', shootin' rootin-tootin...
Can I get an AMEN, brother?
[/sarcasm]
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
and if you're serious, remember, hate doesn't make you powerful, just pathetic....
_______________________ I am the eggman, wooo! _______________________
By the way, if anyone draws conclusions from a sample base of 750 people, ranging from 16 - 44 (ie not the full age spread of people who play games), they'd be out of their freaking mind. This study prooves nothing, for neither side.
Thats like 28 people per specific age, or 140 people for age ranges of 5 years. It's rediculous. While any survey is inherently flawed, this one is chopped, diced, and pureed.
"Old man yells at systemd"
You're hardly much of a gamer are you? What, are you still just ramming your quake up against people trying to pin them in the corner while firing?
- Jacob Rens, Deviant and proud of it
The Next Level, Videogame News and Info
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
It was a slasdot poll! Of course its perfectly accurate! :) (j/k)
OFTC: By the community, for the community
Using Microsoft software is like having unprotected sex.
Bite the hand.
Using Microsoft software is like having unprotected sex.
Bite the hand.
Just about every news story I've seen cites Doom as the violent game, come to think of it, the quote is always "violent video games such as doom" with some slight semantic mangleing. Strange to think that all these violent kids ar ebehind the times..
Then again, I'm the one who bitches and whines every GDC about the decreasing number of technical women in attendance.
Mind you, I don't claim to be *good* at games, unlike those of my compatriots who beat the pants off of the guys at ID... But I certainly do game, as well as write code and run a heterogenous LAN.
I'd *love* to see the raw data on *this* study...
--jas
> My comment can be quoted whenever, wherever, so long as you bloody well provide attribution! >
So did Computec just commission this study so that they could justify continuing to produce the same old male-oriented action/adventure games? Why didn't they ask the casual/non-players why they don't play the games that are out there? Or focus on the non-white-male-well-educated-$$$-makin' demographic and see what suggestions those other folks could come up with?
I'll give you game manufacturers a few pointers, free of charge:
Granted, I might not make as much money as a lot of people out there, and don't spend my entire paycheck at Outpost.com but I almost certainly spend at least as much as those casual gamers, yet I know that the game companies will most certainly keep gearing their games to those 25 year old guys, and ignoring a huge potential market.
And since I know you're wondering: yes, I can rocket jump with the best of them. ; )
Don't you people know anything!??
Violence in video games is not destructive to kids in high school. Violence in video games given to small children is, in my firm opinion, but that's not the issue here. I play games, I thought that Half-life was the best game I had ever played in my life... knocking Duke3d off that list. I've grown tired of games now, and happily go ride my mtn. bike down the North Shore mountains here in Vancouver.
Wah!
though the media may bias their reporting so as to have a certain effect towards the government (either on purpose or as side effect) I do no think our government significantly manipulates our media such as is the case with countries like China.
lawerish mode off.
-I go to Rice, so figure out my email address
The real outcasts move on to programming. :-)
"People standing in the middle of the road look like road kill to me." - Linus Torvalds, On Bill Gates
I'm college educated.. *and* a deviant.. how does that figure into their survey? *grin*