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DVD for Linux
platinum wrote to us with the news that folks at the Internationale Funkausstellung in Berlin are showing a board for Linux that will allow DVD under Linux. Specs for the board are on the site, and the board should be availible towards the end of the year-December, probably.
I live in New Zealand and DVD's come out here eaons after anywhere else.
I remember hearing not long ago that there were only 5 DVD movies for sale here.
It wont be hard to beat the Creative DVD stuff... they suck...
The Sigma Designs Hollywood+ kicks Creatives DVD buXor.
I wouldn't use that as a compairason. I have both and this is from MY point of view.
Me_n_U - To lazy to login on this computer
They aren't actually downmixing any thing. That would require have a Dolby Digital (aka 5.1, aka AC-3, aka dolby 5.1) decorder chip. DVDs that have Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding usually have the stereo (pro-logic) audio channel on them too. Some DTS DVDs do not have the stereo (pro-logic) mix on them because DTS is compressed 4 times less that Dolby Digital 5.1 and requires a lot more space. I'm waiting for MLP (Meridian Lossless Packaging) with is analogus to ZIP (or any other computer file compression technique). Basically you take 24-bit, 192kHz sound and "zip" it up without any loss of data and then upon decoding, the decoder chip "unzips" the signal and then processes the signal. Currently, DD and DTS both employ some sort of compression that results in data loss (like JPEG format for pictures). To play the new 24-bit/192kHz signal you'll need to purchase a DVD audio player (not current play on the market supports this and neither do any decoder boards, decoder boards will have to be trashed and new ones made to support this, including the drives the read the material).
Actually I think the dxr3 *IS* a Hollywood+. I forget the exact model number though.
-matt
After seeing a hardware decoded DVD movie in 1280x1024 on my 17" Trinitron monitor, TV can kiss my... posterior regions. If you enjoy movies for both content and visual appearance, a normal television is not the way to go.
Whats holding up DVD and more importantly DVD-RAM is piracy. The movie studios are scared sh@tless about people copying their stuff. So while the PHB's argue about how to put copy protection into the software or hardware we all sit on our backsides and wait. This whole thing is becoming just like DAT tapes. The recording industry managed to kill those. I hope the DVD for Linux developers manage to get some good hardware/software solutions that do an end run around all the anti-copy idiots that are holding technology back. This whole mess reminds me of the history of the printing press.
I wrote to them and they replied saying something like, "we would like to support linux but current contracts with prevent us from doing so. we are currently looking into the legal issues, and if possible we will consider writing a driver." IOW, "we're not supporting it now, and probally never will." Sigma has said that their next board will support linux. Their current one can't because the css/decryption is done in software and they are worried us big bad linux haxorz will be able to crack css, oops we already did.
-matt
Exactly. Right now I'm wondering if I should go with the $6000 wireless to get my friend's dorm connected to ours, or just buy a 37 inch monitor.
http://www.bombcar.com It's where it is at.
Fellowship 9/11
Linux has prelim (dev) support for USB in 2.3.x; (2.3.16 being the latest as of this post).
check out The Linux USB page (http://www.linux-usb.org/) for info on USB and Linux.
https://www.mav.net/teddyr/syousif/
--
Time is on my side
From the LinuxTV site: We are working on the driver for this board. We have video and audio and can watch StarWars on our TV set. Hmm, that's funny, the original SW Trilogy hasn't been released on DVD (and won't for some time), and the new movie certainly isn't out yet in any _legal_ format... *cough* *cough* guys, might not wait to advertise your fondness for downloading vcd's...
I wrote Sigma a few weeks back and that's exactly what they told me, that they are "currently discussing Linux support in a future product.." glad I only spent $55 on my Sigma Decoder, which, btw, kicks ass (but only in windoze :( ). Not content to sit in front of my computer to watch DVD, I bought a 27" trinitron TV to feed my nasty DSS/DVD habit. I have complete faith in sigma's ability to create a quality product for Linux (they've done a fine job for windows thus far) and I'm willing to wait for a GOOD product for linux, rather than a quickie.
DVD holds about 800x600 in standard pan&scan. Most TVs true resolutions falls a fair bit short of this (640x480 gets blurred out on most TVs), and even when it does TVs generally offer far lower sharpness, contrast, or colour clarity.
A monitor is a greatly superior display device.
my bad, I forgot to mention that and DVD's I watch on my new TV are STILL decoded on the PC, as Sigma's (and subsequently Creative's) S-Video and Dolby out are quite nice.
I have both an ATI Rage Fury and a Sigma Designs Hollywood plus. The Hollywood plus is a PCI card that uses VGA pass through for your PC, or SVideo out. There is also several 3rd party hacks that will let you set the card up just about anyway you want. Very similar in features to the announced Linux Card, and it already exists.
I'm just wondering why no one has looked at developing Linux drivers for the Hollywood Plus, since you can get one from several on line sources for less than $100.00 US.
Just MHO.
If these (not yet available) new DVHS-recorders get a Firewire-Interface, you could pop 5-10 DVD Movies as MPEG-2 streams on a S-VHS cassette for a few bucks.
Anybody know cheaper current backup media than DAT?
I agree, they're probably smart enough to figure out that a well-protected board will not sell as well as one that just barely complies with their CSS NDA, just like the settop makers have.
besides, CSS is almost cracked anyway.
You threw away a lot of money getting a piece of junk Dell. There are excellent Linux boxes out there for less than $600! Back to Dell, I called these idiots up after buying a Dell this summer (actually it was my sister's computer) telling them that there was a problem with the DVD drive. The person I spoke to said that there have been numerous other complaints about the same thing. This is the last time I help anyone with a Dell out -- their own damn company doesn't know how to get *THEIR* hardware working.
IIRC SuSE (six CDs and counting... :) already has their distro on a DVD-not that I've actually seen this, mind you, but I've seem to recall references to such scattered throughout their manual for 6.2. I've been poking around in it just now, and I can't seem to find the references, so I *could* just have been smoking some really good crack, but is there anybody out there who can confirm/deny?
ATI users only got TV support in Linux in these last few months.
:)
We did? Please, tell me more. Where should I look?
Thanks.
The new computer will be better suited for multi-media applications. The Pentium should make a great fileserver.
Thanks for the suggestion though. The advice is appreciated.
My DVD card has an S-Video jack allowing me to plug it directly into my TV for a most excellent picture. Except for (currently) having to run Windoze to do it it rocks.
Goto Freshmeat and look for GATOS
It rocks.. it works with almost all ATI cards that have TV support
ChiefArcher
*I* really want a light portable video solution, here are the solution I come across:
. html
1)dvd player +2.2" CASIO TV (yes, 2.2 is fine by me the one I have has 600,000+ pixel. I really bought this for the baseball playoff.)
$500+100
2) dvd +Sony Glasstron! simulates 38" screen in front of your eyes! 500+500, too rich for my blood, also I was turn off by mix review of glasstron (can't view too long; some people can't use it; LOOK LIKR AN ALIEN IN NEW YORK SUBWAY --why can't Sony make a rayband style glass?)
3) My libretto + portable 2X dvd and a PCMCIA card, I only need to invest 500 more.
This is a very good solution, one thing that stops me is the DVD price. I watch a lot of movie every week, I have like 7 video rental cards in my pocket and I know all about their discount policy. For DVD rental I had to feed 3.7 to blockbuster. (there is another thing is that I really want to catch all the "Law and Order" and I don't believe the old movies I'm renting form the central libriry has release in DVD format yet.)
4) So I finally find out this dream solution. It's light, this flexible, it can tape tv and movie in incredible resolution and brother, I can't afford it.
http://bhphoto.com/video/sony%20prosumer/gvd300
It cost at least 1200 but blow out dvd format. Well maybe I'll buy it in two years.
5) Cheap bastard solution, a beat up used 8mm camcoder+ portable TV, but they all heeavy, so forget about it.
have fun
Golly, I don't know...
Why don't you ask all companies making those lame WinModems?
It is idiotic to direct peripheral hardware at a particular operating system, but it does occur. I hope this is Linux only just to show other companies up. Of course, since the drivers are open source it won't be long before somebody from the Windows community makes it work with the dreaded OS.
I think that would be refreshing... a windows person having to hack a driver!
How does the tv output quality of this board compare to the Creative Encore kit?
Ahaha. No, the craze is with the BSDs but noone will tell you that. :D
Rumor is that the programs will be user-level and not kernel-level, so i'll have noooo problem with them on my freebsd box and linux-compat.
Why hasn't this been moderated down yet?
-bugg
Welcome to my world. Welcome to the world of Linux.
Just a little info here. I went to a guys house, who has a very expensive home theater setup (top of the line DVD, very expensive Line multiplier, three color ceiling mounted projector, Dolby....). He then proceeded to hook up a Video Card with the Impact TV chip on it (the one currently used by ATI, but this card was a pre ATI one) and hooked the PC directly up to the VGA port on the projector.
Man, what an incredible experience. Very nearly as good as going to the theater itself, Certainly better than either TV or PC monitor. Full 16/9 projected on the wall across the room, no aliasing, not pixelation. Basically his sub $1000.00 PC was keeping up with over $30,000.00US of dedicated home theater equipment, as far as visual quality went.
With the new ATI and other cards coming out, using your PC as the basis for a high quality projection system becomes viable, and desirable. All of this stuff is available today, not 2 years from now.
Note: The new geForece 256 seems to have line multplication features built in, be interested to see how it will compare to the upcoming ATI home theater chip (aka ATI Rage 128 Pro).
There is already software to defeat the Hollywood plus, it's called Zone Selector, and it works great, and it's free.
Actually I only have a 15" trinitron monitor shared between 2 PCs, my Faltmate has a 17" monitor. This plaes besides the 20" widescreen set in my bedroom and the 32" widescreen set in the lounge.
:o)
Next up for the lunge is either projector, gas plasma or at a push a rear projection set (but I might have trouble getting something *that* big up the stair to the flat.
M@t
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Damn straight! Just like many unfortunate souls I am constantly forced to use Win95 (*gasp*), yes its true...why you ask? Two reasons.
The first is games and then only a select few (MechCommander, Shattered Light, and Diablo2 when it comes out). Even then I am currently in the process of getting these working under WINE.
The second is DVD! If they are able to get this going under Linux, then I will finally have one more good reason not to bootup into that degenerate OS.
I use StarOffice for work, I use Xanim/mtvp for viewing movies, X11amp and XMCD for music, Netscape for web-browsing, GIMP and XV for graphics, Xcdroast for duping and backups, lastly other small utilities for handling my network (firewall, IP masquerading, DHCP connection, etc.). I hope to god that I can add DVD to my list soon.
"..a civilized nation will have full gun registration. Our streets safer, our police more efficient, the world will foll
IIRC SuSE (six CDs and counting... :) already has their distro on a DVD...
;-) because I could swear I heard exactly the same thing; unfortunately I was also unable find any reference to it on their website, so I can't confirm it :-(
*snip*
...so I *could* just have been smoking some really good crack, but is there anybody out there who can confirm/deny?
I guess I must have the same dealer as you then
chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
About time! thank god i can NUKE WINDOWS!!! YES!! this was what was holding me up! thank you!!
Yes the dxr3 is really just a relabeled Hollywood+ card. You can switch to the drivers from Sigma and it will still work fine. I'm currently using one right now from the Encore 6X kit and am very happy with the results. Looks great on my 19" Trinitron monitor and also on my crappy old 20" Toshiba TV.
But that doesn't decrypt the data on the disc, which means you can't reencode it as say a lower-quality CDR image. This is what they don't want broken and what they would be liable $1M for if they were negligent with, not the region coding.
Now all they need is a pcmcia model for us laptop users!!!
...but is there any word on PCMCIA Decoders?
...and what about software-driven decoders?
Also: Does anyone know of a PCMCIA Decoder/DVD-Interface on the same card? My laptop unfortunately only has one slot...
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
Now can we bypass CSS? ie after that data is decoded and in raw format and just about to be sent to the mpeg2 decoder, reouput that data to a file , and bingo.
I bought my computer with DVD, and after the first 2 months of playing scifi movies in the corner of my monitor nonstop, I hardly ever use it for movies now. However, one really nice thing about DVD drives is that because of its improved ability to read, it can read off of CDRW's and cheap, low-quality CDR's (the almost transparent kind) that regular CD-ROM drives may have trouble with.
My advice is to get DVD. It's not much more expensive than a CD-ROM, and although you're probably not going to use the extra functionality all the time, it's nice to have it there when you want/need it.
(The computer would dual boot between Linux and NT. There is still one program I'm stuck running on NT.)
Now I'm glad I've waited a bit. I can wait a bit more for prices to come down and by that time this board should be released.
This is very good news.
I really hope the hardware will be open sourced, otherwise I won't buy it.
I've been waiting for a while to get DVD. If I had room I'd have got a standalone decoder, I've not got a builtin PC one mainly because of the drivers issues involved.
:)
I'll have to look around the shops around christmas time, might have some present requests
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
I still think DVD is a couple of years away from being a dominant medium for anyting other than watching movies, and if I want to watch a movies I'll sit on a couch and watch it on TV not on my laptop, like the commericals keep showing. I mean when do you think you'll see a Linux(or Windows for that matter) distribution sold on DVD?
One thing I would like to see is region independance - both the creative card and the DVD deck I have are region free since I ship DVDs in from the States due the the
1. Crap prices in most UK stores (19ukp seems about average)
2. Dreadful release timetable - we seem to get releases way after video and way way after America gets the DVDs.
Out of insterest is there any legal requirement for these boards to support Macrovision - which I believe is only available as a licensed chipset - and if so is that a global requirement or is it per country?
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Now if I can use my DVD under linux with my
new Dell I7K (Hardware DVD of course)
Linux is finally almost kinda sorta getting the beginnings of support for DVD, yet another thing that Windows can already do just fine. I can only hope to see what kind of support we'll have for USB -- my QuickCam probably won't be supported until Windows2002 is out (which could be decades away).
For more information, click here.
I can see the benefit of DVD on a laptop, especially if you travel a lot. I can also see the benefit if you're a student living in a dorm room. Is there any other benefit? My TV is bigger than my computer monitor, my Panasonic DVD player works fine and fits better next to my TV than my computer would.
I'm wondering if you'll be able to disable macrovision or the region encoding on the board. I really hope you will be able to. Also, does anyone know anything about the on screen performance of this card? Does it produce a high quality image, or is it remnicant of the dxr2's image.
-matt
That's probably unlikely. The company would get in monetary trouble if the decryption was reverse-engineered from their software. This is one of the reasons no one wants to port their software players to Linux--they're afraid that it will be that much easier to figure them out. And after someone RE'd part of a Windows player (for the purpose of getting it working in Linux), they got even more scared. So the people who make the Hollywood+ card are, I believe, implementing decryption in hardware so they can release software drivers that don't contain the taboo information.
I have a Hollywood Plus Mpeg decoder card... Supposively, by the end of the year they'll have binary drivers/apps out... That's what the news groups seem to be telling people.. They're just anally slow about doing anything though... I love the card, but I'm really disappointed at the company itself.. Anyone working on drivers out there? /me needs to pick up C a little better.
Actually, if you read the whole page, you'll see close to the bottom that digital (I can't remembet whether it was optical or coax out) outputs is going to be included on the card. It has a regular output for Dolby Surround (just your regular headphone type jack...)
Can't wait for DVD's on my Linux Box....
Just cuz you ain't paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
So much hardware, especially newly-released hardware, lacks Linux support that a manufacturer that expicitly supports Linux can get a big share of the Linux market just by announcing from the get-go that it works under Linux. The smart thing for the manufacturer to do is to write drivers (and decoders, etc.) for other OS's and include them as well; this is especially necessary when so many Linux users also boot other operating systems. If the hardware requires a newer kernel to work, there's probably room on the CD to put the kernel source, too.
The drivers are going to be GPL'd so you could port it to whatever OS you wanted to. From what I understand the linux drivers will be released soon, sure you can't buy the card yet, but for the first time we might have drivers for linux before the hardware exists.
-matt
Someone from the windows community with microsoft's Driver Developement Kit, which IIRC is VERY expensive.
-matt
The DDK comes with an MSDN subscription, which costs roughly as much as a license for Troll Tech's Qt. This isn't expensive by any stretch. If a company making *hardware* doesn't have the budget to purchase even a DDK, I don't see any hope for them.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Acutally WinModems themselves are not lame, where else can you get a $10 56K modem. Them not porting drivers to BeOS, BSD and other OS is lame.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
A) Manufacturers dont have to if they dont want to. And as you can see there not. B) Some people arent programmers. Why dont you code em for us?? C) Don't push people. Windows/Mac has had USB for quite some time, why wait for linux??? If we wait for linux we can wait for Win2000. Think about it.
You can get DVD movies for $10 on the net. What kind of loon would pirate them?
I've just installed 6.2 and it definitely mentions it in there somewhere. It was in the intro. or install instructions in the manual. ( The only bit I read ).
that's why you get a laptop with a cool video out port... like the dell i7k. i just d/l the latest movies, play them full screen on the tv... chicks dig it... 'specially when the movie is still in the theaters (not that i support piracy..) >=)
December?! For the love of god, don't they know the world is going to come to an end at the end of this year?!
--
There are some advantages actually. The TV show interlaced pictures, while the DVD content is non-interlaced, on a good monitor you will actually get a better (ie higher resolution) picture that on your TV. DVDs actually contain more information than your TV can produce. Also the computer can take advantage of "anamorphic" DVDs (the letter box picture is squished so that ther is no loss of information with the letterboxing (ie the black bars aren't part of the signal and the picture uses all available picture lines) but you need a widescreen format TV to actually see the benefit of this .. or a computer DVD drive)
Hmm... Ive just convinced myself to go out & buy a DVD drive!
12GB per cart = 3 movies. Don't laff, people are already trading them.
It this a Linux only board? Or will it also work under BeOS, *BSD, etc?
Css will be cracked sooner or later. The DVD makers know it. Methinks CSS was just put in to appease the movie industry into supporting the format (it worked). And so long as the decoding can be done in software (which it is on cheaped DVD_ROMS), it is possible and will eventually be reverse engineered and source published on the 'net one day. And since the movie industry already heavily supports the DVD format, they can't back out after the format's cracked.
Why would a hardware company target a hardware product as being for a particular operating system? Make the best hardware you can, and then make drivers for everything (or release specs so others can)...
I'm going to have to get a few more PC card slots to hold all those darned PC Cards I need to get..... grrr.....
Insert mind here.
What is TV???
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
"Trouble is, just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's true"
--Terry Pratchett
http://www.core.binghamton.edu/~insomnia/ati is the URL. It works VERY well. Do not attempt to use it under MetroX though... that sux... Me_n_U - 2 lazy to log in on this computer...
I'll buy the first card that works (well) under linux, whoever makes it. But concerning the regional decoding, I know it sucks, but asking for built-in backdoors or software decoders isn't going to do any good. If you want your movies early, get a card from the US and buy the DVDs that way when they come out.
This spec seems odd. Most receivers/amplifiers use the 5.1 channel input/output. With Pro Logic, you loose most of the surround information.
Will it support the 5.1 channel output?
---
"Posessing a degree in science does not necessarily make one a scientist"
The setup of my PC @ home is:
ATI All-in-Wonder128, DVD drive, Sigma DVD card, 5.1 decoder, SBLive.
I use the system both on the monitor AND the TV, in windows we watch DVDs on the TV, browse the web, listen to MP3z with the killer plugins, etc.. In Linux _I_ use the box on the monitor. No matter what, Linux is STILL being pushed aside.
ATI users only got TV support in Linux in these last few months (GATOS Rocks!)
No DVD in Linux beacuse the DVD Natzis won't make it so... I would buy, support, build, sell ANY linux-based "convergence" item just based on the fact that I know it'll WORK. We have TV, get on with the rest of "your" "convergence" would you!!!
I hate those damn buzzwords...
If you lika me like I lika you...
Nick
-- "It's a sad day for American capitalism when a man can't fly a midget on a kite over Central Park" - Jim Moran