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Movie Review: Princess Mononoke
Nutshell
Review: Princess Mononoke is a Japanese animated film set in historical Japan that explores the trials of nature versus an ever-encroaching civilization. Famous artist/writer/producer Hayao Miyazaki has broken the charts with Mononoke Hime, released in the U.S. by Miramax Films as Princess Mononoke. This is a movie that anime fans and non-fans alike will delight in seeing.
Rating: 10/10 Reviewed by frohike / Dan Potter The Scenario
The setting is historical Japan in the Muromachi era (1392-1573), during the time when firearms were first beginning to appear in the country. A raging monster enters the up-to-then peaceful village of Ashitaka, a young warrior. It plows with towering hatred straight towards the village, aiming to destroy it and kill every human it can find; so strong is the hate in the creature that the very grass it runs across wilts away to brown mush. When Ashitaka defeats the demon, it finally speaks to the gathered humans with its dieing breath. It tells them that it was a great boar protector-god of a faraway forest who was overcome with anger at the destruction humans had caused in his forest. The boar curses Ashitaka in the form of a consuming disease in his arm. As its already-dead body crumbles away it utters a scathing curse on humanity.
Such is the intensity present throughout much of Mr. Hayao Miyazaki's latest full-length film, released in the U.S. as Princess Mononoke. There are really two parts to a proper review of the American release of this movie -- a review of the movie itself, and a review of the cultural adaptation and dubbing -- so I'll handle those separately.
A small note before I begin, I was privileged to see this movie because Austin has a small but thriving film community that brings film festivals to town occasionally. It was shown in a (mostly =) normal movie theater (The Paramount), and it was attended by Neil Gaiman (more on Neil Gaiman's relation to the movie in a moment). The movie won't be coming out for the public until early November, and there is more information on that below.
The Movie: Mononoke HimeAs many anime fans are aware, Mr. Miyazaki, and associated Studio Ghibli, are famous for creating films that contain excellent artistic talent, entertaining stories, and are just plain neat movies. You may know that team for such titles as My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, and Laputa (Castle in the Sky in the American release). All of those good qualities are present in this movie, but at about twice the normal strength for a Ghibli film. The artwork and animation of Mononoke Hime is breathtaking, the scenery is fabulous, the musical score is worthy of comparison with the contemporary greats, and the issue is close at hand: man and his continuing detrimental effect on nature. Only, in Mononoke Hime, the battle is a bit more tangible.
The story begins when a forest-protecting boar god intrudes on a peaceful village and imposes a curse on the young warrior Ashitaka. His fate is to leave the village and discover what has unquieted the boar god so and cure his curse if possible. His journey takes him across streams, through enchanted forests, and finally to "Iron Town" (as it is called in the American release). Here he witnesses the reason for the anger of the forest gods: a city setup across a lake from a forest whose residents aim to mine the iron from the hills in whatever way possible so that they might make ends meet. The story is even more complicated when Princess Mononoke herself appears, a human child raised by the forest wolves who is also out to eliminate the Iron Town.
This story is noticeably darker and more serious than most from Mr. Miyazaki. On the other hand, it is not without its light-hearted moments, and it comes across as very well balanced in that regard. If you took the kids to see My Neighbor Totoro and that's all you've seen of Mr. Miyazaki's works, you might want to consider seeing this one first without the kids. It was definitely written for an adult audience. It is also probably one of Miyazaki's longest single pieces: it weighs in at about 15 minutes past two hours.
The Dub: Princess MononokeOk, when Neil Gaiman first came out before the movie and stated that he had done a "cultural adaptation", I groaned. I'm sure I heard a number of other anime fans groan too, because we are all quite familiar with said adaptations. They usually involve a butchering of the dialogue until it's not recognizable, replacing the good music with bad, and just generally tearing the show up to make it sell with American marketing.
If that's what you're expecting, you'll definitely be disappointed. It took a little bit of getting used to the English voice actors/actresses, but overall they are very good. Having seen the Japanese version a few times, I can say that the translation and "adaptation" is also very good. Mr. Gaiman said that his goal was to make an adaptation that made you feel like you were watching a movie produced in English, not a foreign film that's been dubbed; he succeeded quite nicely in that goal. The lipsyncing is very good, and the only real changes were a few extra bits and phrases thrown in near the beginning to try to insert a bit more historical background for a non-Japanese audience. Way to go, Neil! You just produced the first dub that I, a die-hard subtitled-anime fan, actually enjoyed and would recommend!
This goal was also helped by the all-star cast. While the voice acting talent of some of these folks hasn't been tested, their voices are well known, and they did a pretty good job. Billy-Bob Thornton as the monk is a really nice touch, and Lady Eboshi's British-accent-wielding voice actress gives her a very aristocratic touch (not that Brits are inherently aristocratic, but she does come across as very refined and regal among the more normal voices of Iron Town).
There was a nifty Q&A session after the showing with Neil Gaiman, and I think it's a bit out of scope to post all of that with this review, but I'll give two little tidbits that stand out in my mind.
The first one is the story of Mr. Gaiman meeting Mr. Miyazaki. There's an Asian restaurant Neil Gaiman frequents, and the daughter of the owner is a really big Miyazaki fan. So of course she asked Neil to get something autographed. He said he would do it, but that he's really a very shy person, and the idea of meeting this man who many consider to be a minor deity of animated film making was just a bit shaking. To make a long story short, he did indeed meet him for a few moments at a dinner, and he came away with a signed CD, a signed art book with a little Totoro sketch, and a hug from Mr. Miyazaki. Deal!
The other one is talking about how he got involved in the production. There is more info about that on the web site for the movie, but here's the part they didn't include. Mr. Gaiman said he didn't want to be involved in this. He went to see a subtitled version at Miramax, though, and came away feeling like he'd seen something phenomenal. The next thought that went through his head was, "What's the next guy they try to hire going to do with this show?" That was what decided him. His statement on the matter was (paraphrased), the next guy who works on this may just look at it as a job, without the respect it deserves and really f*ck it up; but at least I'll f*ck it up with respect! (censored for the innocent, and for the web policing packages ;-)
What's Bad?
I can't think of a whole lot that detracts from this movie. There are a few points that may turn you off from it though: its long length; the number of things you still won't understand about Japanese culture from the added dialogue (unless you already know); keeping track of the crazy procession of things that happens towards the end; and of course, despite the quality of the dub, I'm still a die-hard subtitled fan and a sometimes student of the Japanese language, and I like to hear the Japanese ^_^;
What's Good?
What's not good? ;-) The quality of the animation is excellent, the music is good, the plot is neat. You get to feel close to all of the characters, not just "the good guys". In fact, there aren't really any "good guys and bad guys" in this movie like in so many movies. There are several sides to a conflict, and every side has humane and cruel qualities, and every side has a valid argument. Exemplary of this is the fact that Lady Eboshi, while she appears at first to be the "bad guy" of the story, is just trying to make a life too -- and to help make a new life for an entire group of women from a local brothel, and a group of lepers, and so on. She turns out to be their humane savior, even though she encourages the destroying of the forest.
Watching this movie leaves you with a ponderous feeling. I don't want to spoil the ending for you, but I will say that they did not cheese the heck out, and that is one of the most endearing qualities of it.So What's In It For Me?
An easy glance into some aspects of Japanese culture; a look at some of the latest in state of the art animation (not a lot of computer rendering! =); and of course, a good time. If you're an anime fan, seeing it in good ol' analog on the big screen is a real treat! While much of the mythology of the movie was created by Mr. Miyazaki himself, it does have a very Japanese feel to it, and many of the history tidbits are fairly accurate.
Showing informationThe movie will be showing at the "20 major markets" at first. You can find more info on the web page about the movie. The web site, while a bit flashy for my tastes, is actually kinda neat. It has a pure HTML version, but the interface is a Shockwave-esque Myst-like environment that includes lots of information snippets, Quicktime movies of scenes, etc. On the top of the front page is a link to the "20 major markets" and when it will be showing at each. They start in late October (29th in New York City) and go from there.
The success of this small run will be the determining factor if they show it nationally, and in fact if they bring any more things like Mononoke Hime to the U.S. If you like this kind of film, please go see it and vote with your dollars! Tell your friends too! =)
I apologize for the length of this review, but it's such a neat movie and there's so much that could be written about it. If you have doubts, give it a shot, you might like it! If you are a Miyazaki fan already, the dub won't disappoint you!
A final note, if you can read Japanese or have translation software, there is also a Japanese Mononoke Hime site at the Ghibli web site; and if you want to find more about anime in general, try The Anime Web Turnpike.
... or is this actually playing in theatres?
I watched it on video during the summer in Japan. The artwork was pretty rich but I found the story blasse. Perhaps my Japanese skills weren't strong enough to fully appreciate it -- but then again my girlfriend, who is Japanese, didn't think much of it either.
:-)
Nice artwork, though.
Having seen fight club, I am not about to say that
fight club is not a good movie, in fact it was an excellent movie.
What really annoys me though, are people who dismiss anime movies as silly or juvenile. Some are, but then c'mon.. so are a lot of live action movies (you know you've seen them).
When the good artist/innovators like Miyazaki set down to do a movie or a manga, they create thought provoking artistic works that deserve the proper amount of merit. A big fan of miyazaki myself (mainly through Nausicaa), i've been waiting a long time for this one to come to the US. The fact that Gaiman, one of my favourite authors, did the translation is yet another reason to go see it.
Excellent review! I look forward to seeing the film when it opens in wider release.
personally, I like the movie reviews :P Anyway, this is a very good movie. It's probably the best/most enjoyable feature length anime movie i've seen.
There are some that believe that if you do not appreciate anime, then you are not a proper nerd.
I would go a step further and say that if you do not appreciate anime, then you are not a proper human being.
Besides, good anime comes out, in the U.S. at least, rarely enough that it doesn't really take up that much bandwidth on /. to cover it.
-- "So far, I have not found the science" -Soul Coughing
The Anime Perfect Blue is currently playing in movie theaters across the United States. Perfect Blue breaks away from the traditional giant robots / technology theme and focuses on a japanese sub-culture and psychological issues. The Animation quality is certainly up to the Levels of the anime classic Ghost in the Shell. Definetly worth checking out if you are lucky enough to live in a major US city.
They reviewed the original and dubbed versions. (So you can see what you're missing.)
The reviews are heartfelt but also quite funny.
"Knowledge = Power = Energy = Mass"
I was really disappointed when I found out how limited the initial showing would be. There was originally an intent to show it 'on 1000 screens', accross the US, but now thats been trimmed down to a handful for testing purposes.
I really hope it does well, though, or if not comes to sale on vidio/dvd quickly. The trip for me and my friends from Las Vegas to Pheonix (taking 10 hours including the movie) just isn't worth it.
How important to everyone is half of the stuff posted to slashdot? It may not be important to tell you about a breakthrough in anime in the United States, but it may be some great news for a lot of nerds out there. If you think that all Japanese "cartoons" are silly, then definately this is good news for you: go see it in the theater. All of Studio Ghibli / Miyazaki's works are better than ANY animation produced in the United States, or any other country for that matter. .pl.
I remember last semester in animation class,
I saw this book on CGI, and they showed the
"worms" on Ahitaka's arm and how they were done.
They did some kind of other effect I can't
remember the name of to flatten it out and make
it look like it was had drawn.
Thea early versions looke WAY snakey.
I just hope when it comes out on DVD,
that they don't do any adding to the japanese sub.
If I'm doing the sub thing, I don't need the hints.
can't wait to see this movie, and also let people who arent otaku know that there is more to anime than pokemon, sailor moon, and robotech, that there ARE actually wonderful stories out there that the american audience isn't exposed to.
(i find a lot of americans dont like reading subtitles either, which is just american chavanism[sp?] - and yes i AM from the USA ^_^)
The "Rurouni Kenshin" series, OAV and movie comes to mind as a great story, and the romantic movie "New Kimagure Orange Road : Summers Beginning" just made me want to cry cause it was so romantic and just made me feel so good.
Okay i'll be quiet now hehe
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
...... Hayao Miyazaki's anime. His anime is the best thing a nerd will appreciate. His anime movies constantly depict the struggle of human being in adopting new technologies. Although most of his stories has a background in ancient time, he was using a irony way to potray the conflict bewtween new and old. "Laputa - the castle on the air" is my favorite movie from Hayao Miyazaki.
My advice is "See it before you neglect!!!!!"
Neil Gaiman of Sandman and literary fame...
This is an unfortunate trend. Sandman is Gaiman's most acclaimed literary credit, but we sort of trip over the idea of calling it "Literature". Sure, there are words, but there are... GASP... PICTURES! It's a COMIC BOOK!
Books like Sandman will continue to challenge the assumption that works with storyboard-style pictures are not Literature. This is a Good Thing(tm).
Or, to paraphrase Gaiman from a talk he gave at MIT: If it's a picture we call it art, and it's respected. If it's a book with words, it's literature and it's respected. If it's a book with words and pictures, it's crap for kids.
I certainly hope that the dubbed version was not ruined by Disney (as they have been known to turn originbal works into trash). I saw the movie with subtitles, and personally quite enjoyed it. I think the foreign language (the way it sounds as oppiosed to what it says, when you can't understand it) is an integral part of the film. I wonder if the dubbed version is really worth seeing... Although the film itself is spectacular!!!
------
Mr. Low Resolution
Yeah, that's one of the main reasons I like anime so much, along with a lot of other people -- it's generally aimed at a mature audience, not the Saturday morning cartoonies. Animated movies as a medium really haven't see much in the way of serious movies here in the U.S.
One other thing of note:
The fact that Gaiman, one of my favourite authors, did the translation is yet another reason to go see it.
Hmm... I guess one thing that I didn't really say very explicitly is that Neil Gaiman only did the dialogue adaptation. The other credit listed for the translation/adaptation (Jack Fletcher) is apparently the one who did most of the raw translation work. He translated the bulk of the text pretty literally, and then that was picked up by Neil Gaiman and made more natural sounding and such. Sorry for the ambiguity.
Cryptic Allusion - New Mac and Dreamcast Games!
We care because some of us happen to like animation. And not just the silly ones. And we might just be sick and tired of the only halfway decent cartoon movies being produced being fsking musicals made for kids by disney. We might just want to try to contribute to a societal change where for a change, animation can be used for serious movies.
For those interested in this, and movies in general, visit Ain't It Cool News.
The site is dedicated to movie industry news and rumours, and the search engine should point you to past rumblings about Mononoke and anything else at all..
Don't forget to check out the buzz on Pitch Black.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
well the fact that it's being released in 20 major US markets is something big for sure, and its being released my a major distributor (mirimax?)
"There is no spoon" - Neo, The Matrix
Well, AICN has more bitching and moronic comments in its feedback section than a /. story on Apple :)
:)
They too suffer from the "First Post!" syndrome, and the posters mostly come across as 12 year old boys with ADD and no formal logic skills.
That aside, one of their writers, "Moriarity," does write some good stuff.
Mostly, though, it's pointless, spoiler-filled rumour mongering and fan-boy rants.
Visit at peril to you sanity
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Your silly japanese cartoon comment is very telling that you haven't a clue. The Japanese animation that I've seen and have is geared towards the adult viewer, many with adult situations, violence, and language that would easily rate an R or even X rating. Most all have an excellent story line, unless butchered during the English translation process.
In contrast, the vast majority of American cartoons are geared towards children, and are not worth seeing for those not in a family way. This does some to be improving, Iron Giant was a pleasent surprise!
Most of my collection is on Laser Disk, though I've started getting DVD titles now that I've a Thinkpad with DVD support.
One of the Tenchi Muyo specials would be especially popular for this group - it's a major spoof on Microsoft, complete with Gates and his attempts to monopolize the Japanese Computer market.
No matter how good of a dub job they do, dubs are usually at best, decent, but ever so rarely turn out to be better than the original (Armitage III is such an exception [the original dub, NOT the Sutherland/Berkeley one]). Knowing Disney's assimilatory "If is has the Disney label, no other versions exist" attitude, it'll be a long time to never. How long did it take for Kiki's Delivery Service to be released subbed again?
Now that's a fucking worthwhile contribution to our discussion. Ooooooooooooh, anime is so silly, silly little anime fans, silly, silly, silly.
I like Miyazaki, but I have a big fucking bone to pick with Ruroni, in that the author set it in the Meiji period, and then proceeds to stomp ALL OVER historical fact. If all the major characters were fictional, then it wouldn't bother me so much, but when he starts pulling in people like Saito Hajime (I mean, really, after reading/seeing Ruroni Kenshin, what impression would most people have of Saito? How many of them know what sort of person he really was?), then it turns me right off.
I mean, f'chrissakes, the guy's descendants are still around - how do you think they feel about it?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
[ ] I want to marry Belldandy!
[ ] Every other paycheck covers anime goodies!
[ ] I watch a lot of anime.
[ ] Some of it is all right.
[ ] Not really interested, thanks.
[ ] Isn't that all just pr0n and ninjas?
[ ] What's anime?
[ ] Foo!
Hey Rob! Let's have a real poll on this!
Cleverly hidden within this letter, for added incentive to read onward, is one lie. Not a lie of statistical or grammatical error, but a ludicrous falsehood at once so absurd as to strike the reader as an insult to human intelligence, and yet so crass as to convince the reader that social stability and family unity are two things that lackadaisical deviants have no concern for. If you disagree with my claim that most of us are now painfully aware of Princess Mononoke's jejune allegations, then read no further. In this era of rising irreligionism, we must invigorate the effort to reach solutions by increasing the scope of the inquiry, rather than by narrowing or abandoning it. Considering the corruption and foolishness that characterize garrulous pompous gits, if she wants to turn our country into a grotesque cesspool overrun with scum, disease, and crime, let her wear the opprobrium of that decision. This makes Princess Mononoke's teachings seem mean-spirited and even a bit dotty. Why is it that 99 times out of 100, Princess Mononoke's obiter dicta are based on biased statistics and faulty logic, which, in turn, invalidate the conclusions she draws from them?
Princess Mononoke is not just capricious; she's prudish, too. Although it requires risk, commitment, and follow-through to avoid the extremes of a pessimistic naturalism and an optimistic humanism by combining the truths of both, before I knew anything about her, I was once an onlooker at a few of Princess Mononoke's mass demonstrations, without possessing even the slightest insight into the mentality of her cronies or the nature of her excuses. From this perspective, in this crucial hour and under the treachery of our time, I must announce that money is not the solution to our Princess Mononoke problem. Everywhere she's gone, she has tried to overthrow democratic political systems. It can happen here, too.
On that basis, I myself should, at this point, warn the public against those condescending numskulls whose positive accomplishments are always practically nil, but whose conceit can scarcely be excelled. Unfortunately, Princess Mononoke's loquacious credos neglect to take one important factor into consideration: human nature. Think about that for a moment. As it turns out, Princess Mononoke's hijinks are impertinent in theory and unscrupulous in practice. As will be discussed in more detail later in this letter, I will not let myself be forced into anything. I would like to end on a heartfelt note. Except for a few bright spots, Princess Mononoke's conclusions are thoroughly obstreperous.
I could write a very angry letter right now about Slashdot, but I decided instead merely to express some constructive criticism. For starters, Slashdot's accusations are misleading and deceptive. Ostensibly, Slashdot does not intend to lay all of society open to the predations of organized criminality, but in fact, we all have an obligation to stand up together and forcefully oppose its fastidious theories. With friends like Slashdot, who needs enemies? Justice and humanity are totally on our side and nothing but illegality and barbarity are on its.
Slashdot is one of those conceited dimwitted pseudo-intellectuals that quotes the Bible but never reads it, and if you don't believe me, then you should help you reflect and reexamine your views on Slashdot. The problem is, there's no point in arguing with Slashdot. Slashdot's tracts share a number of characteristics. They impact public policy for years to come. They let us know exactly what our attitudes should be towards various types of people and behavior. And they make bigotry respectable. Put together, these characteristics imply that Slashdot's press releases, when taken as a whole, are counter-productive. And there you have it. Slashdot is chomping at the bit for a chance to depressurize the frail vessel of human hopes.
Unlike some of his other work, e.g. My Neighbour Totoro, this one has enough blood and violence in it that young kids might be better off avoiding it. Just because there is a young girl who is a princess, doesn't mean your little princess won't be turned off by the blood.
Most anime doesn't really fit what most of us are used to seeing in a movie. Even anime that is meant to be a movie has different pacing and style to what we're used to. MH however is closer to what we expect when we go to the theatre.
Yeah, anime is a fsking revolutions man! But you're still just giving your fucking money to the man.
Note that I have seen the original version of this movie twice, and would like to comment that the aspects of ancient Japanese culture that appear in this movie are going to confuse many people. Also, please note that, to the best of my knowledge(which, therefore, cab be disputed), is that Miyazaki Hayao's animations play out in what is considered to be "parallel" worlds, that are fictional by all accounts, yet deal with the common thread of "humans" dealing with the problems caused by the same "humans". So, even though the reviewed mentioned the Muramachi period of Japan, the story of Mononoke Hime is set in a "transitory" world where changes are about the rock the foundations of not just a single party, but all of the involved parties that have conflicting interests... And these interests are ultimately represented by two single individuals in this story, and this is where Mononoke Hime is considered to be one of the better works of Mr. Miyazaki because no one is really wrong nor right in the end, and that's how life is. However, fans of Mr. Miyazaki's previous works will be able to pick out similarities in the characters that appear in this movie with the past favorites that appeared in all the excellent works mentioned by the reviewer above. And this may either be a disappointment or a source of joy for these fans, since this element makes the plot of the story somewhat predictable. And, yes, it is a love story between a boy and a girl, there is no way to go about this in any other way. Despite the violent scenes, the tangled interests of various groups or parties involved, it is ultimately a Japanese love story between a wacky girl and a too-serious boy. :) (Hopefully this doesn't make this a flame bait) ----------- Of note, the music for this movie was composed by Hisaishi Joe(URL: http://www.joehisaishi.com - note, it's in Japanese), who was also the composer behind almost all of Mr. Miyazaki's works. His music is panoply of styles that share a common thread of enticing the listener into the world that maybe Mr. Miyazaki alone wouldn't have been able to create if it hadn't been for Mr. Hisaishi's music.
For those of you who enjoy good Anime, this is *definitely* worth checking out.
This is the man who created my all time favorite Anime, Kaze no Tani no Nausicaä (Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind). Not only is this a full length story (weighing in at right about 2 hours...I hate 45 minute 'movies' with no time for a real plot) but the depth, the characters, and the writing are all abosolutely amazing.
It's strange, but very few people in the US seem to be familiar with Nausicaa, despite the fact that I'm told it almost always places in the top 5 of every Japanese poll about the greatest Anime ever. I suppose part of the reason may be that no Enlglish dub was ever made (Technically, there was an English dub, it was called Warriors of the Wind. However, I refuse to count it, because it was so horribly chopped, mangled, and destroyed, it's not even worth watching. They cut out almost half an hour in the dubbing and editing, essentially everything that was important for the plot, leaving you with a few disjointed action scenes.)
If you'd like more information on Hayao Miyazaki and his Animes and Mangas, check out some of the following URLs:
http://www.nausicaa.net/
http://www.princess-mononoke.com/
http://www.ntv.co.jp/ghibli/
Find out for yourself why the old stigma 'cartoons are for kids' only goes in the US. This will show you how amazing an indepth a 'cartoon' can be.
Topher
Check out nausicaa.net for the unofficial Ghibli web site.
-- surfing the wave --
Now this was a fine example of humour.
Some little points I thought I'd share with the rest:
*) The movie came out in Japan 2 years ago.
*) Ashitaka comes from a race known as the 'ainu' (I think it was) who (in real history) died out somewhere between the 5th and 10th centuary or something. Originally, "shogun" used to be short for something that meant something like "army leader and suppresor of the Ainu". (I don't have some of my history books around, so I'm just doing it from memory)
*) "mononoke" means something like a "vengeful ghost/spirit" - doesn't translate very well. "hime" is a name suffix which normally translates as 'princess', though in some periods it can be a bit more like 'lady'.
*) The "wolves" are "mountain dogs" in the original
*) In Japan, firearms were removed from the whole country by the government in the early 17th centuary. They were originally introduced by Portugease missionaries, who offered them to local lords in exchange for the lord and people going christian.
*) I like this film a lot, though that doesn't mean it'll be like that for everyone.
ok, well I saw this when it first played at the toronto film festival back in august, and well interesting story line, but its defintiely not going to appeal to as braod a market as ghost in the shell or akira did. yes great animation etc. but it drags on and eventually you are sitting there goign why am I still sitting in this theatre. All I have to say is, its going to be better on video, and well they are definitely kicking up one huge stink of a marketing campaign for this one, its already been mentioned in two seperate issues of details but other than that i think most people will be severely disappointed. oh and to anyone else that has seen it ... what happened to the monkeys? where'd they go? they just sort of seemed to forget about them ...
Having contributed a couple non-techie book reviews, I'm very aware of this issue.
/. so big that it was necessary to exclude stuff to be able to keep up kill the core culture or not? It doesn't seem like it would have to.
A couple of my friends have been talking about whether it would be possible to do a general alt-culture website based on the Slash code, and the consensus has been that, to be worthwhile, it would have to be heavily configurable, with multiple department editors maintaining different areas of interest.
Well...the arrival of the YRO, Apache, and BSD sections have gotten me wondering...could Slashdot broaden that way itself?
At the moment, I suspect that most users don't exclude any subjects--would making
You wouldn't be related to Anthony Gaza by any chance, now would you? /., with your lame attempts at ridicule.
It's actually pretty amusing to see your floundering around on
--
I am not an anime fan (saw a few ones like Ghost in the Shell, it was ok, but not enough to turn my head) and I suppose that will qualify me to be burned. :P
But personal opinions aside, it sounds like a good movie. I *do* sometimes enjoy reviews that don't pertain to the latest processor or OS, and it seems to me like this is more interesting than the M$ got hacked article. I got into some books just because I saw it on slashdot (The Diamond Age comes to mind) and I appreciate that fact. It would suck if slashdot turned all pseudo-techy ( zd.. net..) but once in awhile reviews are ok. I think this is the first time I saw an anime review here anyways. Reviews aren't necessarily a Bad Thing(TM) IMO.
Mononoke Hime is an ok movie, it has beautiful scenery and detailed animation. However, I think the only reason it was the highest grossing domestic film in Japan is that it was Miyazaki-san's last production, not that it was his best film.
Other films by Miyazaki, which I think are better, are "Tenkuu no Shiro no Laputa" (the rough translation is "The sky castle laputa") and "Kaze no Tani no Naussica" ("Naussica of/in the valley of wind"). I'm not a big anime fan, but I think these films stand out much more than Mononoke Hime in terms of plot, setting, character development, and technical merit.
My race team wants to do some T-Shirts for next season, and we're looking for an anime artist who can design a shirt for us in exchange for a cut of the gross.
But we're having a devil of a time finding anyone.
Where's a good site that will put you in contact with people who can do anime-style art?
there is more to anime than pokemon, sailor moon, and robotech
Absolutely! It's too bad that the majority of 'anime' that reaches the US mainstream media is crap. Ask any anime fan about what movies and books they prefer. There are much much better shows than Sailor Moon et.al. Would you decide that Western television is stupid if the only shows you could get were Power Rangers and Teletubbies? Certainly.
All of the Ghibli movies I've seen are totally excellent. Slashdot nerds might particularly like Wings of Honneamise.
My major problem with American dubs on anime is the general lack of appreciation or understanding of the Japanese approach to voice dubbing.
The Japanese voice-overs generally have a *LOT* of expression, with over-the-top 'wacky' characters contrasted with more even-keeled 'cool' characters.
American attempts at dubbing grossly downplay the 'over-the-top' aspect for the 'cool' approach, giving all characters a more similar (lack of) affect, and deadening the sudden leaps and dips of emotive expression which are a HUGE part of the charm and magic that make anime appealing for so many.
The two girls in 'Totoro' are a good example of this.
A lot of American voices (especially the 'big name' ones) seem afraid to speak in anything other than a cool, high-status style. To do it right, they need to have more fun and take more risks. Shout, scream, cry, whimper, grovel, shriek, whatever.
Also, most Big Name Hollywood Act/ors/resses genuinely suck at vo's. To their credit, it is also probably more largely due to an utter lack of intelligent/thoughtful direction than to their own faults.
But I think the big name actors generally feel afraid to 'tarnish their image' by giving a voice-only part their all.
The latest wave of Disney flicks suffer horribly from this. All the characters (the few, that is, that aren't played by Robin Williams) sound like bored Beverly Hills brats.
Bottom line: I'd WAY rather hear an enthusiastic and talented unknown than a Name who's unskilled and/or uninterested. Never happen here, tho', 'cause film industry investors are attracted only to film with Names in them. There's no interest in creating New Names.
Oh well! Fsck 'em!
**>>BELCH
Try Porco Rosso. The art and animation weren't nearly as good, but I thought it was a much better story by Miyazaki. Oh, and another great from Studio Ghibli is Grave of the Fireflies. Roger Ebert said it was the only animated movie that ever made him cry.
miyazaki?
take one part vague environmentalism, four parts sentiment, add a homeopathic pinch of adventure, a dash of annoying movie music, and there you have it: a lump of sugar-coated poo-poo in the disney style. in fact, many japanese set miyazaki studios as a national hero, rival to that goddam Mouse, and heir to the schlock-meister throne left vacant by tetsuka osamu's death. it's the same old crap with a made in japan label. after being subjected to previous miyazaki excresences, i think i'll just say no.
Good old online anime site EX Magazine has done an editorial on Princess Mononoke-and they love it. Check it out here. =D
emufreak
www.kontek.net/pp
Yeah, the anime was good. And it certainly was head and shoulders about most of the other crappy anime out there. But I was seriously disappointed in it. Why? The manga. AMAZING. Heartwarming and breaking at the same time. Now, they DO hold pretty close to the story, but they only cover the first book of about seven in the series. Now, they do treat it well. Killing off Nausicaa at the end was a nice touch too; it really got to me, particularly because she didn't *have* to die. I loved that. But I wanted more, which the comics gave me. So much, much more. WONDERFUL story, if you ever get a chance, seek this one out.
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
Think of Mel Blanc and all the characters voices he produced, or the early Disney efforts, or Popeye, the Flintstones or whatever. These efforts created voices that we still recognize immediately 50 years after the fact.
What are the modern equivalents?
What modern cartoon character voices are difficult to imitate, but garner immediate recognition when done successfully?
The Simpsons? - Definately
Ren and Stimpy - Yes, and my personal faves (jon k'falusi versions ONLY)
Freaky and the Bean - dunno, never seen it
The Teletubbies - don't ask, just shoot on sight
?
**>>BELCH
The people that Ashitaka comes from are the...Emishi! Yes, the same Emishi that Yamato Takeru of Kojiki myth sets out to vanquish. In the Kojiki (Collection of Ancient Things), the Emishi are depicted as a thouroughly nasty bunch who are uncivilized, but this was probably because they lost against the Yamato clan (who ended up uniting Japan).
As a huge Anime fan (The Slayers, Fushigi Yuugi, and Battle Atheletes being my favs! - especially The Slayers (subbed) w/ Megumi Hayashibara) I'd just like to say that my wild-blind-stab-in-the-dark-guess is that Mononoke Hime will catapult Anime into more mainstream America. I'm not talking about Pokemon or DBZ (Japanese-Americanish) Anime, I'm talking about real subtitled (on even dubbed, if it's good).
I can't wait til this happens, as so many really good Animes get 'stuck' in Japan, and they're only available if you can speak Japanese, read Kanji, or know where to find a good Fan-subber.
Anyways, everybody should see Mononoke Hime - you'll love it. (It was the best selling movie in Japan ever, until Titanic crossed the Pacific) And check out some Anime - you can get it at local stores like Suncoast, or online at www.animenation.com, which has really great prices! I'd suggest getting 'The Slayers' if you're a fantasy fan, it's hilarous, I guarantee you'll love it, or Rob promises to give you a full refund!
Mina Inerz (a.k.a Lina Inverse) - visit my webpage for great Anime Wallpapers!
Mina Inerz [N. Reinking]
I bet this is from the same person who flamed Free BSD here. Dude, if you're actually writing this by hand, get a job in advertising or politics. If it's an automated program, link please?
I agree. I thought they did a good job with Kiki...
whatever.
Some points on your points! Being an avid historian and deeply interested in Japanese history from my armchair let me make some clarifications.
1) the Ainu are an aboriginal race in Japan. There are still Ainu cultural centers for them in Japan. Race wise the most recent scholorship thinks of the Ainu and Japanese as basically the same race with different cultures. Ancient Japanese are divided up between Yayoi and Jomon. They are named after different ways of patterning pottery. Yayoi overcame Jomon. Around 200 A.D. the Yamato court started to do the big push off of Kyushu (one of the 4 main Islands of Japan) and spread into the Kanto plain (the area around Tokyo). There the Yamato and the Ainu met and struggled for land/water/game rights. Overtime the Yamato began to refer to the Ainu as Emishi and also called anyone who wasn't keen on a big central government Emishi (barbarian). By 805 the Yamato had pacified the Emishi and by 950-1000 AD the Ainu and Emishi were pretty much totally absorbed into Japanese culture. This is important because if it wasn't for the wars against the Emishi and the proof that the Yamato Court's conscription system basically sucked we would not have had the development of the military houses that by 1100AD had become the Samurai.
2) The Dutch can also be implicated in arms trade with the Japanese, but for less "holy" reasons (unless you venerate gold...) There are some fascinating tales of the struggles of the Christian Samurai.
3) Does anyone else find it funny that one of the lead characters is named after a court cap? Eboshi means court cap (one of those funny caps that look anything like a sailors cap to something the coneheads would wear.) It would be like refering to a character in one of our films as Mr. Baseball Cap! Well, perhaps Costner could get away with this one.
4) The Japanese have come a long way and are now avid Linux users. (See, back to tech news!)
From my limited sampling I have found that a high number of Anime fans are also into computers. My IS department is getting a group together from work to make the 10 hour trip to see this when it comes out in theaters!
This is refreshing News for Nerds!
More info on the film, including an interview with Neil Gaiman, can be found here.
JMC
Surely you must admit that people who know the language should prefer to see the film in the original language, rather than English.
Your comment that every animated film is dubbed is completely false. You must be under the impression that the images are drawn first and then the voices are recorded. In fact, an animated film is made in the opposite order. First the audio is recorded, and then the images are drawn, frame by frame, to fit the voices exactly. Fitting drawn images to a prerecorded audio track gives much more satisfying results than trying to fit a new audio track to an existing video. That is one reason why some people genuinely prefer to view animated films with the original sound track.
Finally, as has already been remarked above, Japanese voice actors do voice acting for a profession, while American movie stars are not accustomed to the role. In Japan the actors spend a lifetime honing their skills at voice acting. In America voice acting is treated as an afterthought. It should come as no surprise that the Japanese actors deliver much more pleasing performances.
You're totally off. How clueless can one get?
a Simpsons version of "four feet gooood; two feet baaaaad".
Just what we need.
I am much much bigger now. And mean. you made me that way. AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Feel the wrath of the super nerd who's seen too much dragon ball z. IIIIIYAYYAAHH!!!
Halp! I can't seem to find it here in Ottawa, Canada!
Where is it? When?
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
do you speak japanese NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
so why should you care about keeping the origional japanese voices if you can't tell what in the bloody hell they're saying. subs aren't bad but they are no better than dubs. and as it was said before. if you're distracted by reading the subtitles you'll miss the visuals. try watching jurassic park whith the sound off and while reading the book. I for one will watch origional J before subs. I would prefer to only pick up every tenth word if I can apreciate the visuals.
for example for all the serial experiments Lain fans I got a bad distribution that was marked as dub but turned out to be origional J. I still got most of it and found very little surprise when I finally read the script. do not bash the concept of dubs but rather encourage the production of better dubs. And yes there are good dubs. Reference Tench Muyo OVA series. considered by many to be the flawless dub. and by the way ayeka's brittish accent was used to make her sound aristocratic, and she still sounds like the japanese actress. and don't get me started on the others. So get with it. Not all dubs are like sailor moon and dragon ball.
"Princess Mononoke is a rare and exceptional delight in every way. The only animated feature at this year's Festival, it shines as proof of just how entertaining and magical animation can be, and how utterly rewarding as adult fare. Princess Mononoke brings together the talents of writer-director Hayao Miyazaki, Japan's leading animator, and a cast of irresistible characters voiced by Gillian Anderson, Billy Crudup, Claire Danes, Billy Bob Thornton, Minnie Driver and Jada Pinkett Smith. The setting of this true epic is ancient Japan and the story draws on the folklore which makes that country such a rich cultural mosaic.
It's a time of samurai warriors and villages scattered few and far between. The Tatara clan is waging war and destroying the land. The Great God of the Forest, a fantastical, mystical creature, grants power to the gods of the forest to ward off humans who have taken the form of enormous and brutal beasts.
Ashitaka (Crudup) is the last warrior of the Emishi clan living in the far-off mountains of northern Japan. When he kills a beast he believes to be a threat, he realizes that he has done away with one of the gods protecting the forest. He is now cursed, marked by a twisted scar on his arm. Seeking to unravel its mystery, he heads to the land of the Tatara. After witnessing the terrible fighting among humans and forest gods, he meets the lovely Princess Mononoke (Claire Danes), who is ready to die to protect the forest. Through her, Ashitaka is drawn into the terrible struggle to end all the killing and reconcile man with nature.
Although thoroughly charming and a visual treat, Princess Mononoke is also an aesthetically innovative film that deals with mature subject matter; the plight of these timeless characters will both break and uplift your heart. Touching on the dualities of violence versus peace and civilization versus the primitive wilds, the film's universal appeal is matched with a complex and masterful storytelling technique. This one's a must-see. "
The trailer for this outstanding movie is also on Apples Quicktime page under Miramax.
,such as the awfull "Clash of the Bionoids", an adaptation of the original "Macross". Which I later learned was adapted by Carl Maceck (of "Robotech" fame)himself. But after the small sample that I saw on Apples quicktime page I'm almost excited. My only real fear is in how much of the original story has been changed or lost in the translation.
I must admit that when I learned that Disney was going to import this movie about a year ago, I was a bit apprehensive. After all the "dubbed versions of anime` that I've seen
Les Tolbert
All anime I have so far seen has been the (free) televised sort. It has not impressed me. Much to the annoyance of some anime fans I say 'Aneem' as all I've seen is stuff that is ANEMic is every aspect of animation I can think of. Yes, I'm a heretic, big deal. I'm told to go rent or buy this-or-that title... but when EVERY sample so far has been crap, it's a tough sell. Why risk my $ on something with zero quality examples?
That said, I do hope this film is as good as is oft claimed. I may see it, even. (Weekend matinee, when its cheaper, if I do). And if it is good and does well, maybe, just maybe, someone may get the idea to televise something that isn't crap.
At the Monica. who's up for it?
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
No offence, I _actually_ _like_ that sort of slang.
I would go a step further and say that if you do not appreciate anime, then you are not a proper human being.
My, my, what a narrow view of the world you must have.
Do I appreciate anime? Well, I can see it has decided fandom, from casual to quite rabid. I can see some folks (WB, for instance) trying to cash in on it or what they hope passes for it. But as animation, as art? No. At least not yet.
When I first heard of anime, in the early 1990s, I rather liked the idea. Then I saw what got put on the air in the U.S. of A. with an 'anime' label. To be polite, I did not see what the big deal was. As I have yet to see any good examples, I still do not see what the big deal is.
Appreciate anime? Anime must be of a sufficient quality to permit appreciation. So far what the phosphor dots have become for anime has not reached over that critical threshold.
I saw this in theaters about two years ago, but it was called The Quest at that time and was in test-marketing. I gotta say, I thought it was particularly bad. Give me ghost in the shell in theaters, give me ninja scroll on dvd. I saw it for the right price (free) and walked out wishing i'd seen prince of egypt for $8 instead. I mean, its not a bad movie. I just didn't enjoy it nearly as much as plenty of other anime.
Every one. E-V-E-R-Y one of them.
I usually don't watch movies unless they include attractive females. Can someone give me a quick rundown of the females in the movie, so I can decide if it's worth the time? i.e. age of females, attractiveness, and how close to naked they get?
Thanks.
There was a preview a few weeks ago at UCLA, apparently it is pretty amazing. I know I couldnt go then, but am going to be going next week...
As for the translation, Neil Gaiman apparently tried very hard to stick closely to the original.
She became a geek by absorption, one day she woke up with a bad taste in her mouth.. and knew how Linux worked
When I was in Japan i saw some dubbed american movies, subtitles were not that noticable. Kinda like when you watch an mst3k show.
Also, Jiji, Kiki's cat, talked too much. There are scenes where in the Japanese version, Jiji isn't saying anything, but in the English version, he is. Also, all of Jiji's lines were changed from the Japanese version. All his jokes are different. In fact, Jiji really wasn't very funny in the Japanese version.
Oh man. This is bringing back some horrible memories. They completely trashed the opening theme. The Japanese opening theme is this song which really sounds like a 1950's pop song, only sung in Japanese. It's a beautiful song. The American people decided that they had to replace it with a cheezy Generation-X modern rock type song. The movie is supposed to be taking place in the 1950's, I think. Why do they have to make the opening theme completely out of place? Couldn't they have replaced it with an English-laguage 1950's pop-style song?
Crypt.x
Miyazaki is a god, and could kick Walt Disney's butt any day of the week. Unfortunately every Miyazaki film released in the United States through 'corporate' distributors gets BUTCHERED!
You used to be able to get fan subtitled releases of Miyazaki's works here in the US. They were the original films, and excellently translated. That's because the people translating and subtitleing them love them as much as any viewers.
Now that the Walt Nazi corporation has bought the rights to the US distribution of these films, you can't get them subtitled any more. People are too afraid of being sued for copyright infringement.
The Disney corporation has no compunctions about altering the original films to make them "more suitable for American audiences". They don't love these movies, they just love the money they can get from them. And their translations and dubbing suck. They also have no intentions of releasing unmodified and subtitled versions of the films. Apparently Disney thinks Americans are too callow to understand the subtleties in Miyazaki's films and too stupid to read the dialog. What they did to "Witches Delivery Service" is unforgiveable.
If at all possible, try to get your hands on an unaltered and fan subtitled copy of any of Miyazaki's films before you see what the profiteering corporate distributors have done to them.
Are you kidding? Have you seen the original? Walt Disney f*cked it up royally!
My volunteer group ran this last Friday as part of a Miyzaki film festival (only 8 cities in the US ran this festival).
Mononoke sold out (IIRC the theater only held like 200-250 people).
As part of Buena Vista's distribution deal with Studio Ghibli, they CANNOT edit any of Miyazaki's work. Unlike his other work Mononoke is seen as more mature, so it is actually being distributed by Miramax.
While unable to see Mononoke, I did see My neighbor Totoro, Porco Rosso (been waiting years for that), and Laupta: castle in the Sky. All were very good.
Typical themes are female child/adolescent protagonists, change thru conflict (often nature vs man), and a notable abscence of good vs evil. Miyazaki is a big flight buff as well and you see a lot of that in several of his films.
As mentioned before, his films can run over 2 hours, but they are paced really well and a good mix of plot and characterizations.
That said, I get to see a sneak preview Wednsday and hear Gaiman speak afterward!
I don't want to try to tell you what it is about, but it is very entertaining. I saw the movie about two years ago, my Freshman year at college. If you enjoy what you see in the theater, then please consider checking out the subtitled version. Dubs suck! I don't care who does them.
Lots of people have mentioned the absence of anime in US theatres (I live in Canada, so it's basically the same for me...), but I'm not sure how this could be fixed. All the major studios I've heard of are US based, and it's only at small producer expos that I even hear of European movies. While I'm sure that almost any (decent) anime like Nausica or Armitage can beat most any Disney release, it's the only producer of animated movies most people can name.
I missed Armitage and Ghost in the Shell when they were released, but if all that it takes to get more anime in this western culture is my movie dollar, I'll do my best to make it count.
-- Nanoda@*.dal.net
Webslacker dun said: Oh, and another great from Studio Ghibli is Grave of the Fireflies. Roger Ebert said it was the only animated movie that ever made him cry.
"Only animated movie that ever made him cry", HELL. Trust me when I say you don't want ANY sharp objects around (or even dull ones capable of causing self-injury) when watching "Grave of the Fireflies", especially the last 45 minutes or so. (I'm not going to say why, because this would constitute a major spoiler warning--let's just say that the movie occurs near the end of WW II in Japan and snowflakes don't occur in summer, and leave it at that.) It is a HORRIBLY depressing movie, though not without good reason...
Me, well, I'm still kinda pissed/whingy that the closest theatre to where I live that is showing "Princess Mononoke" is OVER THREE HUNDRED MILES AWAY *sob* *wail* *howl at moon* *rending of clothing and donning of sack-cloth and ashes ensues*. So I have to now pressure y'all who ARE near major market areas that are showing it to go see "Princess Mononoke" if I have any hope of seeing it come to theatres in Louisville instead of waiting for over a year for it to come out on DVD.
Trust me, you want to see this movie . One, it is positively beautiful and from what I've heard they've not farged the dubbing up (Gaiman is just about the only person alive that I think could pull it off, but from what I've heard he's done it). Secondly, 235 million Japanese can't be wrong (it literally was the most popular movie EVER in Japan until Titanic--I'm up for starting a posse to feed Leonardo DeCaprio to the inugami ;). Thirdly, I promise you all it is nowhere near as suicide-inducing as "Grave of the Fireflies" (yes, there are tear-jerker scenes, but not the "gods, this is so sad I think I'm going to kill myself" kind--the good kind of tear-jerker). Fourthly, if you don't see it and it doesn't come to Louisville, I will make it my personal mission next Halloween to dress up as San and get a large club and personally beat living hell out of each and every Slashdot reader who was within 50 miles of a market showing "Princess Mononoke" and didn't see it (yes, I want to see the movie THAT badly, no, I don't have enough money for a 600-mile road trip or I'd be going on one my own bloody self, and YES, I'M DEADLY SERIOUS ABOUT HOW THIS MOVIE BETTER COME TO LOUISVILLE THEATRES, DAMNIT :)=. ;3
(As a minor aside, something tells me that Miramax/Disney won't be bringing over "Grave of the Fireflies". I am not certain Disney wants the larger part of its adult audience to commit suicide. :) Though it might make a REALLY nice Christmas present to Michael Eisner :)=
-Windigo The Feral (NYAR!)
I'll never be able to get my nick on IRC again. And then I'll get asked if I'm Japanese. *sigh*
Yes, disney added music (Night on Bald Mountain? Why?) and changed the intro music. They HAD to. They weren't selling the movie to the Japanese. They were selling it to Americans. Americans with short attention spans. Americans who are scared of hearing their own thoughts during the silence.
I didn't much like the additions. And I think Jiji talked way too much. But I did appreciate the reactions of the children who watched and enjoyed the movie. They didn't know of the alterations. They just knew they had been entertained.
Somedays that's what it's all about: Entertainment.
Overall, disney did a damn fine job with Kiki, and I suspect they'll do even better with the next film.
BTW, they didn't make any change that wasn't approved by Ghibli. So you can blame them, I suppose.
(Dear moderator: My name is on-topic. Does that count? ^_^)
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NetInfo connection failed for server 127.0.0.1/local
I am also a huge fan of Miyuzaki, and for the work that the "two horse power" studios produce. Nausicaa is still my favorite anime movie of all time, and the manga is one of the greatest literary works I've ever read.
That being said, I didn't care for this movie all that much. No one was more surprised than me :) I didn't like any of the characters, and so I didn't care what happened to them. Also, the moral of the movie took center stage, and thus weakened it. Overall, the movie just didn't have much depth to it. The movie also lacked an element of fun. Miyuzaki has produced fluff before, but when he produces fluff, it is usually fun fluff.
As for Neil Gaiman, everything he touches is gold. I havn't seen the dubbed version yet, but I have total faith in Neil Gaiman's ability. His Sandman series is a work of true genius, and I have no doubt that he did a good job with this.
The real story here is the mainstreaming of anime that is going on. I've been involved in anime for many years, and I've seen the anime tide growing. It will be interesting to see what impact this movie has. If it does well in the test theatres and is widely released, it could be considerable. But even if it doesn't do well, it won't matter that much. Anime has been eroding at the cultural and commercial barriers for a long time, and it will continue to do so until the dam breaks. As it stands, anime is already being mainstreamed at a very fast pace. It's not a matter of 'if', it's a matter of when and how.
The best stuff I've ever seen is either (nudge-nudge-wink-wink-grin-grin) illegal or hard-to-find -- and is never aired on television. While excluding those who don't appreciate Anime from the human race is drastic, it should be noted that what we get on this side of the ocean on TV is poor quality judgment material, and the good subtitled Anime is far too expensive (Makes sense, doesn't it? You spend less money on voice talent, generally less on localization and down-dumbing, and charge twice as much...).
There's better stuff out there, somewhere -- it's just too expensive and takes just a bit too much effort to find.
i saw this movie a few weeks ago, and it's pretty cool. the animation has some pretty cool kicks and the story line is different from most of the anime out there. the only thing i didn't like was the ending, it happened way too fast and was kinda cheesy. btw, princess mononoke is a hottie
The initial premiere of Princess Mononoke is supposed to be limited to select theaters, but Disney announced that it's eventually going to play at 1000 theaters. Of course, they said that a year ago at a panel, so I don't know if they forgot they said that by now or something...
Also, Grave of the Fireflies was already snapped up by Central Park Media before Disney inked the 9-film deal with Studio Ghibli, and was already released with subtitles by CPM, so there you have it.
For your information. You probably won't be able to see it. Princess Mononoke will only received limited release Friday in merely 4 theaters (NY LA Boston Chicago one for each) And Miramax will make decision on how to open it "wilder" in next few weeks.
It's not in Miramax, a Disney subsidiary's best interest to open poeple's eyes on what an ture talent can do to the animation format. As you all know, there is only one movie genre is under monopoly control of one Studio--the animation market. Despite limited success of Fox's freshman effort, Anastasia, the best animation from non-Disney studios in the last few year, Iron Giant has received a pretty bad B.O.
Lucky for all of you, Miyazaki's contract has stretch that nobody can re-edit the films. You are not going to lost too much despite the dub. I can't imagine what kind of butching will they do to the greatest animation, that is Kiki's delivery Service. (It's in my opinion that Kiki's Mr.Miyazaki's best film and Laputa, Castle in the Sky follow close second. I'm not about to let you change my mind.)
Now Miramax is a great Oscar specialist, but it's never very good at these low profile films. If you don't believe bad marketing can ruin a good movie, look no further than Babe II. At least it had some promotion to back it up. Have you ever seen a trailor of Mononoke? If you want to see Pincess Mononoke has a chance, to reach the brainwashed American public pick up you phone and call Miramix.
CY
In fact, I used to be in the business many many moons ago. And if you think they fit the voices exactly, please never try to work for an animation house. "Close enough" is the rule and more is put in the expression and body language of the character. I worked with many animators who even felt that NO voices...silent animation...was the purest form of the craft. But of course in this day and age of "the kids won't go for it" mentality even the "Tom and Jerry" feature not long ago had voices...as if they the makers couldn't be creative enough.
But it is still called dubbing...no matter if it's done before or after.
Also, I wasn't saying people who view movies in their original language to be superior...only Anime fans who go out of their way to be rabid about it seem that way to me. I did clarify that in my first post.
But hey, if you like words running all over the artwork while you're watching it, more power to you.
But in this day and age of DVD, I think BOTH of our requests can be satisfied. Just turn off subtitling and turn on English dubbing.
Works for me...
Is that all you have to say? Care to explain why I'm totally clueless?
Or do you even know?
I remember last semester in animation class, I saw this book on CGI, and they showed the "worms" on Ahitaka's arm and how they were done. They did some kind of other effect I can't remember the name of to flatten it out and make it look like it was had drawn. Thea early versions looke WAY snakey.
Actually, Miyazaki's original intention was to use CG for this effect, but it seems that it didn't work out. In the end, they couldn't get it to work the way they wanted to, so they just animated it. Here's an excerpt from that interview:
MIYAZAKI: Originally, we decided to create a team that would render the boar god from the beginning of the film using CG. We wanted that for the spirit snakes coming out of him. We tried and we tried to do it that way, but in the end we had to go back to handdrawn for that scene. By that point, we were already farther along in developing some of the scenes, so we went ahead and used the computer there. I wish in some ways we had just done the whole thing by hand.
The only reason we even put the boar scene into the script was because we thought we were going to be able to render it with the computer. If I'd known how hard that was going to be, I never would have said yes to it. I suppose I have to say "thank you" to the computer.
if it was titled princess monokeke, i would suspect its a hentai anime *grin*
Quite a few of the comments posted so far seem to qualify their praise for MONONOKE HIME by adding that it's a good *animated* film, that for a movie made up of cartoon characters, MN is an impressive piece of work. Personally, I think that does not do the show justice at all, or for that matter anime. Just as there are B-grade material around in the traditional genre of the film, there are porn and inane violent flicks in anime (and manga). Why should one choose to highlight the poorer quality of some anime as representative of that art-form in general, hence at the same time, implicitly assert the superiority of the traditional medium (with real live actors etc)? While this may be a comforting way of asserting some control in one's life (by claiming that there are some [foreign] things that one can safely designate as "bad" and avoid at all costs-- a notion that Disney would love considering the potential competition anime could present to it), it hardly makes any sense. Certainly there are differences between anime and the traditional film, and the question of superiority (if one assumes such a question is worth asking at all) is necessarily a subjective one. I can think of at least one way by which anime allows for greater creativity-- scenes of the other-worldly or quasi-supernatural work much better with anime than with traditional movies even with the use of computers nowadays. In MN, The depictions of the forest that housed the Great Spirits were nothing short of magical. I doubt if any real-world construction of such beauty could provide the same effect as Miyazaki's animation. MN is a very good film, period. It deserves to be treated as a film, the same way one might look at other movies on the listing. I do agree with some others though, that MN isn't Miyazaki's greatest work but I'll just leave this for now.
Quite a few of the comments posted so far seem to qualify their praise for MONONOKE HIME by adding that it's a good *animated* film, that for a movie made up of cartoon characters, MN is an impressive piece of work. Personally, I think that does not do the show justice at all, or for that matter anime. Just as there are B-grade material around in the traditional genre of the film, there are porn and inane violent flicks in anime (and manga). Why should one choose to highlight the poorer quality of some anime as representative of that art-form in general, hence at the same time, implicitly assume the superiority of the traditional medium (with real live actors etc)? While this may be a comforting way of asserting some control in one's life (by claiming that there are some [foreign] things that one can safely designate as "bad" and avoid at all costs-- a notion that Disney would love considering the potential competition anime could present to it), it hardly makes any sense. Certainly there are differences between anime and the traditional film, and the question of superiority (if one assumes such a question is worth asking at all) is necessarily a subjective one. I can think of at least one way by which anime allows for greater creativity-- scenes of the other-worldly or quasi-supernatural work much better with anime than with traditional movies even with the use of computers nowadays. In MN, The depictions of the forest that housed the Great Spirits were nothing short of magical. I doubt if any real-world construction of such beauty could provide the same effect as Miyazaki's animation. MN is a very good film, period. It deserves to be treated as a film, the same way one might look at other movies on the listing. I do agree with some others though, that MN isn't Miyazaki's greatest work but I'll just leave this for now.
Ah well, it's good to see American's finally getting involved in anime. It's even better to see it called anime, as opposed to manga (thanks to the "Manga Corporation", which doesn't produce manga at all). It's even better to see indications that you're getting over the immature "Anime is about mechs or hentai" thing.
I have doubts about Disney being the carrier for anime. They'll never carry a series OVA or anything that's not movie guanteered to rake in the $$. After all, most (almost all) anime otaku will recommended the sub version if you don't know japanese, and they'll recommend the less facile and shallow anime. Mononoke Hime is a start, I suppose. But it will be a long time till you get "Whisper of the Heart", "Fushigi Yuugi" or "Aa Megami Sama" (preferably Chibi!!!). Oh well, enjoy Macross, Robotech and Gundam. After, all, it's just evolved Astroboy - nice and easy to absorb.
byesbye
What are you looking for and how can I reach you? gerberatetra@yahoo.com
To all slashdot reviewers: Please make a
note in the introduction if a review contains
a spoiler. Or take a note from traditional
journalism nd make a distinction between a
"review" (answers the question "will this
movie/book interest you?") and a "critique"
("here's what I thought of that piece of work,
which I assume you are familiar with.").
Slashdot readers will thank you!
...and thought is viscous.
I think I pretty much agre with ajs' sentiments here. Books like Sandman do challenge assumptions and not everyone likes assumptions challenged. Heck (see(here) when a Sandman issue won a World Fantasy Award, they changed the rules.
However I'm not sure I would call my shelf of graphic novels 'literature'. Poetry is generally respected but isn't called 'literature'.
My enjoyment of either doesn't suffer the missing
label.
And connotations of words do change. Not so long ago "nerd" was always an insult. In fact, with the ever-increasing impact of multimedia (- not a cliche, really it's retro-chic!), I'm almost worried about the fate of old-style "literature".
...and thought is viscous.
I think I pretty much agre with ajs' sentiments here. Books like Sandman do challenge assumptions and not everyone likes assumptions challenged. Heck (see at bottom of here) when a Sandman issue won a World Fantasy Award, they changed the rules.
However I'm not sure I would call my shelf of graphic novels 'literature'. Poetry is generally respected but isn't called 'literature'.
My enjoyment of either doesn't suffer the missing
label.
And connotations of words do change. Not so long ago "nerd" was always an insult. In fact, with the ever-increasing impact of multimedia (- not a cliche, really it's retro-chic!), I'm almost worried about the fate of old-style "literature".
4. dub vt or dubbed; or dub.bing [by shortening & alter. fr. double] 1: to provide a motion-picture film with a new sound track and esp. dialogue in a different language
Whenever I use the word "dub" I am going by the dictionary definition and not your definition. I find this course entirely reasonable.
Anyway, definitions are a minor point. If you want to use "dub" to refer to any audio recording process, then fine. I'll just pick a word such as "overdubbing" to stand for the replacement of an original audio track with a new one. Obviously my previous post used the word "dub" in this sense of "overdubbing". Using this custom terminology of yours, no anime fan is against dubbing, but many are against overdubbing.
I should never have said that the images fit the voices exactly. Obviously accuracy is limited by the resolution of video frames, which is about 1/30 of a second (and usually even less, because animators usually draw one image every 2-3 frames). However, my point still stands. Fitting images to voices yields much more natural results than fitting voices to video. There are far fewer inconsistencies that way, and the viewing experience is much more transparent. I don't even know why I'm wasting breath defending the audio-first approach. The fact that every single animated film is made with audio-first is evidence enough of its merits.
I never at any point said that I like words running over the artwork. I prefer no dubbing and no subtitles. But if I am forced to choose between dubbing and subtitles, I'll take the subtitles any day.
P.S. I find your implication that kids are the primary market for animated films a bit incongruous, since kids are not at all the primary market for the animation that we are discussing.
Can someone please explain for all us Aussies who the Sandman is that you're talking about? jjj :-)
I'd suggest you take a look at the rather large anime artist directories out there, the largest being the OCAD (now deceased... a shame really) and another, more living one being the AAHQ (http://headquarters.clearscape.com) Of course. I'm always available for contract jobs too. ;) -- "42" -- Deep Thought -- chris13@mindless.com
Before saying that, watch Neon Genesis Evangelion, at least the first three episodes or so. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised, it's...not... what you'd call typical.
(Personally I can't stand most of the kiddie-type anime that gets airtime in US.. at least Slayers is downright amusing.)
But I did appreciate the reactions of the children who watched and enjoyed the movie. They didn't know of the alterations. They just knew they had been entertained.
Exactly. I held off watching the dub until about a month ago...I rented it from a video store down the street. My son (4.5yrs) watched it at LEAST twice a day every day for the entire week that we had it. he still quotes parts of the movie. the talkative cat was his favorite character.
was it different than the original? sure, a bit. did they RUIN it? I guess that depends on your perspective...