Slashdot Mirror
Corel Linux to be Bundled w/20 Million motherboards
Hos writes "According to this
story,
PC Chips is going to ship Corel Linux with all of their
motherboards. " Basically, from what it sounds like, PC Chips is going to put a copy of Corel Linux, WordPerfect 8 for Linux, and WordPerfect Suite with the motherboards. PC Chips estimates that they will ship over 20 million motherboards over in 2000. Corel will also be doing more on their web site, as well as a "joint marketing campaign." I guess that's one way to get jump start a large user base.
> Linux is doing great in getting to be as easy as windows, but it's by no means there yet. I love comments like these. They're so assinine. My father has a PHD from standford and would never begin to understand what to do with linux. Pls, just be quiet and make the thing easy to use. Here is what linux needs to succeed in the real world. 1. Easy installer. (not even close) Windows 98 is a pretty simple install, but the need to reboot several times is outlandish. Someonce check out the BeOS, and see how installing is done. 2. A common desktop. The splintered movement will never work. Linux deveolpers should unify on one common desktop, thus making support issues easier for companies like Red Hat, and development concentrated on one platform. Also ease, and simplicity. See the BeOS for this. Ahh, what the hell, forget linux all together, and just intstall the BeOS. Its light years ahead of linux when it comes to the desktop. Period.
Yeah, now if only:
a) This was the first post, and not about the 14th or 15th
b) You actually bothered to say anything but "first post"
c) You wern`t a troll.
Do you and your Ilk spend all day hitting reload waiting for a fresh thread so you can try to get first post? Do you get a prize or something?
...as these are possibly the *shittiest* motherboards I've ever seen. I have never, never, ever experienced as much pain with a computer as I have with a PC Chips motherboard. Add to that the horror of trying to fathom out a Linux installation in the pre-GUI with no prior experience and you have a recipe for baldness that I would recommend to anyone wanting more stress in their lives.
Just to give you a taster:
1. Mobo runs SS7 chips at exactly half their rated speed. Any BIOS-level adjustment upwards results in kernel panics and signal 11 crashes.
2. Complete failure to recognise Xfree86 when originally installed.
3. I decided a couple of months ago to replace the case. So I ripped out the mobo and put it in the new case. Exactly according to the mobo instructions. What happened? No video. At all.
Finally I decided to cannibalise the machine entirely. The replacement, an Abit BH6 with an overclocked Celeron 400 (-->500), goes like stink and the Linux HDD is so much happier it practically shouts out with joy every time I boot up.
I hope to hell Corel doesn't end up regretting this. With the current speculation in Canada over the company's future it may be that their marketing department fucked up things yet again. If they actively chose PC Chips as a partner I would take that as evidence of their own stupidity.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
If you want what your getting, its good. Say Microsoft gave Windows away for free. You get windows.. do you want it? Are you happy that someone who bought a new computer got it, and they stuck with it because they didn't know what of something better? Corel is giving away WP so that users can use their suite, and a lot will merely because they don't have anything better. In that regard, ignorance and laziness reduces choice, where as if you were asked 'Windows, Linux, BSD, Be, or QNX' (like walking into a car dealer and being asked the color).. that's good. A car that comes in 'x' color without choice.. most wont bother (by ignorance but mostly laziness) to change colors. They'll glance, make a fuss if its tangrine and dark purple.. and live.
Say.. the Windows vs. OS/2 deal. Back in the 80s, msdos was pre-installed on all desktops (well.. or given on 5.25" floppy). For most people, myself included, I knew of Windows because it was the big deal from MS, and I knew of MS only because of DOS. I didn't hear about OS/2 for a long.. long time, and was happily despising windows and using geoworks. Had I known of OS/2, I likely would have switched, as all I did was play games and write essays.. Had I known of Linux, I might have tried it, though without the drive space (anyone remember when it was cool you finally got 10mb free?).. Pure ignorance, because no one told me better and I just used what came and what family had already suffered with, from work or whatever.
Thus.. that's why I think pre-installing is reduction of choice. If 2 or more OSes are given as options, straight out without any default, and a list provided of others.. or nothing at all.. that's choice.
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
Sad! /. has some serious moderation issues.
I think that a good point to be made here is that a small percentage of people did appreciate those AOL coasters -- AOL now has many millions of users. This might not be a terrible fate for Linux -- wasn't our goal to take over the world? Shipping 20M motherboards w/a Linux CD could be great news. Hopefully we'll be able to please hardcore hackers and absolute newbies all with one OS, someday...
David E. Weekly (dew, Think)
David E. Weekly
Code / Think / Teach / Learn
h4x0r for
When I click the link, I get:
removed
This article has been removed.
interesting... how valid are these claims?
Peter Pawlowski
I used to work at a couple of companies that do white box noname clones. At those shops they have a hard time keeping up with the big name vendors in terms of value for money. I.e. Dell can put MSOffice, Encarta, Gulf and some other stuff on a $1,000. For the little goy that's $600 worth of software before you even build the system.
The way out is to bundle free/low cost crap and whatever comes with the hardware. This is why name brand machine might ship with Macafee Anti virus while Mr. noname gets "Dr.Solomaon" ( He has the same bundling deal ).
This means that A serious number of Noname PCs from small time vendors are shipping to users with Corel Linux installed and running.
To make matters worse, I am willing to bet that all parts of said board will make it onto the "A" list by the time these ship. For those who don't know it means that the VIA.GRA ( real name honest) boards will come with "LinModems" and that Corel Linux will detect and configure the sound and video automatically and push your monitor to it's limit.
In short; "This is a good thing" (TM). Even if 90% of them will be dual boot. It will be dual booting with a minimal Windows that only has Corel Office 8.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Considering that the CuMine CPUs are apparently incompatible with existing motherboards, the fastest your system is ever going to get is duel-600Mhz. (Worth upgrade to from 2x 500Mhz? Probably not.)
If you want system longevity, do yourself a favor and don't scrape on components. Otherwise your just signing over your limited budget directly to Intel with the hope that a fast CPU will overcome all your problems. Build the duel 500 system, and when you get money, upgrade to SCSI and a fast disk, give it as much RAM as possible, and get a video card with fast 2D under Linux, like a Matrox. (Only worry about 3D if you play games.)
(Footnote1: I have a P-133 that's perceptualy faster than low end PPros and Celerons for everything except for booting and hardcore number crunching. The reason is that system has virtually no bottlenecks except for the CPU. Footnote2: I'm getting a duel PII-400 next week.)
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I keep hearing complaints about these boards but for a couple years I was buying exclusively Amptron PC-Chips-based boards for myself and friends and never had any problems. Apart from kernel upgrades, uptimes of years were possible without reboots. They did apparently have some problems with Win98 (which failed to recognized the board and reconfigured to safe disk-access mode) but I assumed this was a failure to pay MS-WHQL tax type of problem, not a genuine hardware issue.) I also concede they were not the fastest motheboards, but that could be said for some of Intel's chipsets as well. What I can say is that, in my experience, they were stable and the price was right. I have no doubt that some lousy quality motherboards were produced using these chipsets, but it's important to distinguish between the chipset mfr. and the motherboard mfr. The fake cache episode was inexcusable, but that was the fault of the motherboard vendor, and PC-Chips may be innocent in that regard.
That would be a great advertisment of how crappy Netscape on Linux is. People would just draw the conclusion that Linux is a worse operating system than Windows.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Hey, who says PC Chips will be the only one? It makes some sense to start at the bottom. First these makers are anxious to improve the perception of value in their product. They are marketed purely on the-lowest-system-cost-in-the-circular-that-weeken d factor and it puts pressure on manufacturers one step up to do something similar. People buy tens of millions of these boards every year as part of the $500 PC movement. That's not going to stop just because PCCHips has put out some duds. After all those boards are sold with WInblows currently, and does MS suffer on that account? Including the $0 cost OS and wordprocessor is the next logical step and will succeed in the same way. There'll be some grumbling as some people conclude they didn't get the deal they thought they would, but they'll continue to buy. Meanwhile Corel Linux and/or other distros move up the foodchain and improve in enduser friendliness. Unless you're a MS employee this is a great day; otoh, if you are check the calendar for your date to be vested and write SELL! in red caps for that friday. :-)
Actually, it gets Linux out to the cheapest, lowest quality screwdriver shop vendors. The people who make the lowest quality hardware. Right. Let's give them another place to cut corners.
New Customer: "Hey, what is this crappy free Operating System those scuzzballs put on my new machine? They said 'Free Operating System' on the advertisement. This looks a little bit like Windows, but nothing from work runs on it worth a damn. I can't even get to the A: prompt.
New Customer's Wife: "I don't know what you think you were doing when you bought that crappy machine. Cousin Ray bought a new Compaq at BestBuy, and it came with the Windows for free."
New Customer: "This crap is going back."
-----
Does Linux really want the taint of the ultra-cheap associated with it? Does Linux need the trailer-trash vendors trying to foist it off on customers they can fool into accepting it? It seems to go against everything a good software evangelist would recommend.
They are the motherboard manufacturer, PC-Chhips specializes in buying the rights to produce old core logic and sound chips and builds motherboards based on them, then sells the boards to distributors such as Houston Tech. The infamous VXPro was a rebadged early revision Via Apollo I/II, the SoundPro is a rebadged Crystal chip, and those infamous PCTel winmodems, found in such things as emahines(the only real problem with the Emachines I've found are these modems) are made by PC-Chips division. those old Fugutech mobos are PC-Chips too.
For some reason, I can't access the original article. The message from Yahoo returns
"This article has been removed".
Why? Does anyone know?
Real men don't need signitures!!!
That's not the true cost. There will always be a cost associated with the distribution of the CD. I can already hear the whining and the fury that would result if Microsoft included, say, an IE 5.0 CDROM with a whole line of motherboards....
"20 million. Wow, that's impressive," we all say. Well, not really. Any OEM manufacturer that's buying motherboards (if they're like Dell, or any other modernized PC maker) already has a system to put them into, which in all likelyhood means they already have a preselected OS to put onto that system. Think about it - if you are making computers and you recieve and order, the customer already has an OS chosen. Getting a free copy of Linux with your motherboard is great, but for a PC maker it's pointless - it's too late to change anyone's mind. I think this will lead to a whole lot of extra copies of Linux laying around from companies that install Windows software exclusively. This will amount to hugely inflated sales figures for Corel ("Hey, we shipped 20 million copies of our OS last year, what did you do RedHat?"), but little added value to the end user. Of course, this might be of interest if they were to bundle it with retail versions of the product - where someone might actually see all this free software they've gotten and decide to try it out - but for OEM I think it's just a backwards attempt at forcing the distributors to adopt your product.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
The jist of your post is that PC BIOSes suck in multifaceted ways, the largest two being that they're completely retarded when dealing with multiple OSes on the same computer, and there's no configuration/updating interface from any OS more modern than DOS.
Unfortunately, the fish rots from the head down, and it's probably going to have to be Intel/(Microsoft)/Compaq/IBM/Dell that will have to solve that problem, not "PC Chips".
That having been said, it would be nice if a FreeDOS boot disk creator was included with Linux distributions to make handing BIOS and setup issues easier.
(Also, IBM gets points for including a "PS2.EXE" DOS/OS2 commandline program to make BIOS settings. Perfect for batch files)
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
ummm
/var/spool/mail/username
vi
Yup... but that wasn't the issue... Amptron exclusively sells relabled PC Chips mobos, and can only be considered competition in the _marketing_ space if anything. Of course they sell a lot of other things too, such as monitors (someone i know swears by their 15" ones) etc.
This is the only explination why the Amptron dual board needs an APIC module, as only PC Chips would dare build dual boards without the APIC chips soldered on...
I know VA dosen't build their own components - I'd be suprised if they _weren't_ using Intel-made mobos for instance, esp. since Intel bought a stake in them IIRC. I wouldn't find getting an Intel board upsetting at all though. :) (In fact, I'm writing this on an AST PPro200 with an Intel mobo _and_ case. Nice box.)
This sorta thing happens all over the place... for instance in a lot of places the same company owns the (aparently) competing radio stations in the same genre and making it _look_ like a non-monopoly.
I just hope that cluless people don't try installing Linux on their systems and then make bad press about Linux being too hard for them to install and such.
When I bought Wabi, produced by Caldera, it came with a free copy of OpenLinux Lite.
When I bought ApplixWare, distributed by RedHat, it came with a free copy of RedHat 5.0 in the box.
Yes, I celebrated the release of Windows 98 by spending about $300 on commercial products for Linux. A year later (early this summer) I expressed my opinion of what Linux is becoming by buying Windows 98 for my main machine and switching all my Unix boxen to BSD (now running a mix of NetBSD, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD on various boxes. My Official (non-Cheapbyte) OpenBSD CDROM came in yesterdays mail.)
The fact that most Linux users have never noticed such a phenomenon is a clear sign that most Linux users have never bought a commercial shrink-wrapped product for Linux.
Producers of shrink-wrapped software should take note of this, when considering a Linux port of their product.
Install Base numbers matter, but not greatly.
What matters is what people buy apps for in the retail channel. And what people buy hardware for.
I see a sad little row of boxes at BestBuy with Linux distributions in them. Then I notice twelve other shelves full of software that runs on Windows machines (and another little half-shelf full of Mac stuff).
That's a better indicator of market share than any amount of number fidgeting by marketing types.
I think pre-loading is a Bad Thing; look at Windoze. The only reason windoze is on so many systems now is that it was pre-loaded and people were too lazy or ignorant to take it off. Then M$ got lazy too. Since nobody switched to anything else, they figured they could skimp on the product and charge more and make a fortune (which they did).
Also, from a technical standpoint, it might be hard to make an installation that would work on every system you put it into. I suppose you could have some sort of setup utility that figures everything out for you, but still, you would have to have the information needed to run on many different types of machines on the drive already, each system info section would waste disk space for all systems but the one it was designed for. It just seems like a waste of perfectly good disk space to me.
--
Seeing is believing; You wouldn't have seen it if you didn't believe it.
I e-mailed Nicholas Peterly years ago with the suggestion that Netscape distribute free copies of RedHat with their browser in order to combat Microsoft's decision to bundle IE with Windows.
He wrote back immediately saying he thought it was a great idea and he'd like to use it in his column...he never did though.
I still think it's a great idea for companies to bundle free copies of Linux with their products. Obviously not every product, but there are many that it wouldn't hurt to bundle a CD or two with.
numb
?syntax error
If you don't want Linux with your Motherboard, take your business somewhere else. Unlike with top-tier PC's, you do have a choice in these matters.
Corel's packaging of a complete OS with Apps should make it very interesting for Microsoft and its anti-trust case. Monopolies should be controlled so that their monopoly power does not extend into other markets. However, they should be allowed to complete. Imagine if Word, Excel, etc.. were bundled with Microsoft Windows 2000! I would only find that acceptable if Microsoft offered the OS alone at the same time.
It would be OK if microsoft bundled a FREE copy of windows with every computer. Preferable not installed, just a free CD like an AOL CD. Throw in a free Corel Linux CD in there and even a free BeOS CD and life is beautiful.
It's not that we're biggoted against Microsoft, but merely resenting that we're forced to BUY windows pre-installed.
The inclusion in this case is nowhere near as bad as it is with microsoft. Microsoft threatens the computer companies into having their license canceled. This isn't good when you are a major marketer of home PCs. And microsoft doesn't have their hardware packaged as cheap software with motherboards. If you want their software, you have to spend $200 on it. Microsoft would never dare distribute windows this cheaply. It's simply not profitable. Whereas in this case techie users are being offered a free OS at little or no cost that is only optional (Windows isn't optional very often). It's basically what GPL says (most likely), that they can charge for the cost of the media. And if WordPerfect is being distributed with motherboards, it can't really cost that much. At least, not as much as Office (or windows) would cost.
This is a brilliant move by Corel. Too bad Redhat hasn't been this aggressive towards the enduser retail space.
they're going to need a really big box.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Let's replace Linux with Windows in this article, and then I have $5 that says this is how the rest of the posts would have panned out:
Windows is creating even more of a monopoly. We don't get a choice of any other operating systems.
Hahha Micro$oft (sic) is teaming up with a horrible motherboard manufacture. Figures, a horrible OS with a horrible manufacture.
But, with Linux being the one who gets good things happening to it, this whole article is a good thing (tm) Slashdot: The biggest hyprocrites on the planet.
OS bigots?!?!? Us? ;-)
Anyway, the rationale is simple. When you purchase a new PCChips motherboard, you're not going to be paying for the copy of Linux that comes with it. On the other hand, if I walk into and purchase a new computer, I am paying for the pre-installed copy of Windows. If Microsoft were pre-installing FREE copies of WinXX with the computer, or better yet just bundling a free Win CD and not pre-installing, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
.sig: Now legally binding!
I admit that their motherboards are well, crappy.
But try to imagine this scenario:
I am poor student here in Mexico, and I need my own computer badly. What should I do?
Of course I go and buy the cheapest motherboard I find, if it has integrated things even better.
Now, with this motherboard comes a CD with Linux, and Wordperfect, so instead of "borrowing" WinXX I install it and start playing around, after some time I may even like it, and I can carry the CD wherever I go, and never be called a "pirate".
Remember, this is the thir world... few T1 connections, no easy way of finding the latest distros (not for free at least).
And belive me, there are a LOT of PC Chips motherboards around here
Just trying another point of view
Imagine the sales pitch "Comes with Free Data!"
What's in Corel's PCChips bundle? The upcoming Corel Linux (a free download w/o support), Corel Wordperfect 8 for Linux (full Corel Suite to follow?) and Corel Wordperfect Suite 8 for Windoze.
If someone must have a PCChips board and s/he hates both Windoze and Linux (or even Corel), then they'll be paying a few cents or even dollars "tax" due to the agreement. I congratulate the person who came up with the "Linux tax" idea, s/he must be someone very special. For the rest of us, choices are slowly getting better if such Linux-OEM deals become more common.
And I count for about fourty Linux installs, I guess, going back to Yggdrasil's first Fall '93 Release, and the first "InfoMagic Unix CD" which included SLS Linux, 386BSD, and one other I can't remember.
But I am running one copy of Slackware, two NetBSDs, two Windows 95s, One Windows 98, Two OpenBSDs, one FreeBSD, and an NT 4.0.
And dual boots are for poor people. Those are all single boot machines.
I can only offer you a lowest estimate of the yearly growth - according to the "linux-counter" it is more than 60%. All other estimates give much higher growth rates.
My best guess is that less than 1% and more than 0.5% of the linux users register with the "linux counter"- that would be 12-24 Milions of the linux users today. You can download my graph showing the linux-counter growth together with RH-estimates here
It's worth less than nothing in many cases. It's in the fricking way when there's worth to get done.
Format the drive. Install NetBSD. Reboot machine. Done.
If you are forced to use Windows, to MUST give money to Microsoft.
If you're forced to use Linux, you can choose IF you want to give money, and then to whom.
It's not a Monopoly. It's a COMMODITY.
[One has to be either a real idiot or, more probably, have an immoral financial interest in Microsoft to even think about `Linux Monopoly'.]
This may be troll, but.. I'm glad to see this. Another step in the broadening of horizons, the sharing of knowledge, the diversifying of the desktop. Now, if only more companies would offer alternative OSes as the OS with their computers.. not necessarily Linux, of course, but BeOS (is it default with any systems?), *BSD, OS/2 (maybe? for the heck of it?), more.. that I can't think of right off hand. But there are many more alternatives, I know, and I wish that at least some company, somewhere, would start a trend; so that you could walk into a computer store and select any of a cornucopia of OS for your new computer. Wouldn't that be grand?
Insert mind here.
Well, it's not exactly the finest motherboard ever made, but my PC-CHIPS M715 LX board runs Linux perfectly, and the bundled SiS6326 graphics card is supported by recent versions of XFree86. The C-Media sound chip also works, but requires a patch for CD-audio (& maybe sound recording?):
_ Mini_HOWTO.txt
http://buckeye.shs.ohio-state.edu/~mike/CMI8330
This may be fixed in the 2.2.13 kernel, which includes a vendor-supplied driver.
(Brief aside: I mis-read the title, first time. Pity. That would have been one hell of a Beowulf! :)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Well, what's most amusing about your suggestion, and what took me by suprise, is the fact you want Netscape to include with their browser for Windows (they don't sell Netscape for Linux), a copy of a Linux CD.
That makes no sense for anyone involved, and here's why:
1) If the person is buying Netscape for Windows, they're relatively clueless. Hell, does Netscape even sell boxed copies of Communicator any more?
2) Why would a person want a copy of an OS they can't run their newly purchased version of Netscape on? Yes, any self-respecting Linux distribution already comes with Communicator, but if that's the major selling point, which is likely since you can't keep a straight face while saying Linux is more stable than Windows when the app to be used is Communicator, they've just bought Communicator anyway, why are they interested in a free version of it? Did that make any sense?
3) Do you really want to explain to this person who probably also bought their WinModem equipped computer from the same store they bought Communicator why they can't go online? Or in that same vein, explain why AOL doesn't work on Linux?
4) "Yes, hi? Netscape support? Yeah, Netscape just disappeared.. No, I bought the boxed version with support. Yeah, I installed the Linux distribution included, and am using Netscape there now... What do you mean you don't do tech support for Netscape for Linux? I paid $(20-40) for this thing and you don't support it? Well then why did you put the CD in there if you're not going to support it?"
Excellent point. The magic about Open Source is the ability to produce better software that benefits everybody. Marketing, dare I say, is not the movement's strong point. There is still a case for evangelising and gaining user base in that it raises awareness, builds the open source momentum and encourages further development. But my point would be that we don't want this to happen too soon. Much as I like GNU/Linux, I still don't think it's "ready for the masses". Giving Linux to the average user before it can match Windows on superficial ease of use is a bad idea. It will just create a bad impression when the poor sod shoots himself in the foot. Far better, I think, to concentrate on making Linux as good as possible and attract people on board when it becomes too good to resist. People will come when they are ready, which is exactly what we want.
Theres advantages to this, but also disadvantages. How many of us actually looked at the motherboard cds when we got our boards? I know I didnt till I needed that pesky driver to run my least favorite OS. On the other hand, corel tossing its weight behind linux is great. Also, I know there were issues with corel and licensing for their betas, I assume these have been resolved, although I dont know. Finally, if a typical user gets a cd that says linux on it, can we really assume they'll have a clue? Linux is doing great in getting to be as easy as windows, but it's by no means there yet. I doubt that this will increase the usage of linux significantly, but it certainly is nice to see another major proponent of the OS.
Urgh..aren't they the crummy cheap motherboard with integrated stuff makers? A friend of mine has one of their boards..and while they're economical...eh... do those crystal audio chips even work with Linux? I think Corel would have better exposure if they went with a higher quality motherboard manufacturer
I recently purchased several PcChips motherboards (M750i - BX Chipset, Dual CPU, integrated sound, and i740 graphics) together with a bundle of PPGA celeron 300's and some MSI slot/socket adapters.
The results were dual 450Mhz machines with 128M RAM costing around £200. (Without storage and networking etc.) They have all been running RH6 for approx 2 months in a small ISP setup without a hitch.
At the same time I purchased a different model of PcChips motherboard ( I forget which ) with the shared VGA/SIS chipset. This was junk.
So PcChips make some OK motherboards and some not so good ones. Now I would only go for the intel chipsets.
This has got to be a good thing for both Corel and Linux in general.
1) Better drivers. With all the Cds out there for motherboards that come w/ Windows only drivers, they are going to have to make Linux drivers now too. Good Thing (tm).
2) If you've ever tried to replace the mb of a PC before, you know that Windows cant take it. Everything is fsck'd up. Why would your bit smarter than average joe user reinstall old out of date Windows 95 1 again, when you can have the latest version of Linux and not have the hassle.
Just my 2 cents.
--Ryan
Hey -
I ahve to say - in PC Chips defense, I picked up a barebones system with one of their Mobos in it - built in Sound (Yamaha OPL3), Graphics (SiS530), Network (DaviCom 9802) and Modem (don't care, not using it). And guess what? Mandrake 6.1 installed fine on it. The only problem was the network driver... However, I contacted the author at DaviCom, and got an updated version the next day (the version on their web site only ran under 2.0 kernels).
Yeah - the graphics aren't the fastest (as a result of it being a UMA) - but it runs OK, and should make for a nice little backup machine... Heck I am even considering putting one together for my mom - but since I am pretty sure the modem is a WinModem, it might not be suitable.
In short their M599LMRT is fine for a low end terminal capable of web browsing, email, word processing, etc. And that's about 90% of what most people do anyway. It's a "Super Socket 7" motherboard capable of running a 100MHz FSB. They make similar mobos for Slot1 and Socket370.
Oh - and this is the hardware behind most of the $199 - $399 PCs out there that come with Windows98 and can be had "for free" with the purchase of 3 years of internet service. Wouldn't you rather see Linux being sold on those systems so that people wouldn't be paying the MS tax?
- Porter
So, my question is, is this the first Linux Tax on hardware?
dan
The current crop of these mobo's ship with integrated 'winmodems'. Does Corel Linux have drivers to make these abominations work?
I guess my concern is who is going to be guying those motherboards. Are they a brand that is primarilly purchased by computer manufactureres, who are likely to use the Corel Linux CD's like everyones favorite coaster, 'the free aol CD'. Or will the CD's actually get to a consumer who will say, "hmm, a free os on this cd, let's give ita try."
This could be really cool!
/* CDM */
Hmm let's see I've treated quite well by Linux. I've had nothing but gripes about GPF this crash that Exploder this.
... tools... (siglim 120 chars)" Like cars... to the office no more no less.
And I'm the bigot?
And don't give me the show me don't tell me argument. There's 40 distros to choose from. Do it yourself.
"Computers should be
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
Wow, this is huge huge news. All the numbers I see are two years old, and they are around 10 million users.
How many people use Linux now?
It just occurred to me that hard drives are shipped blank. Maybe we can get Seagate to pre-load Linux on their hard drives at the factory! Just pop the hard disk in the machine and boot it up. If you want to put the disk in a non-Linux capable machine, no big deal. Just format and install whatever you want on it, exactly as if the drive was blank.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
That is definitely a way to increase user base, but that would only count as copies shipped. It doesn't mean that they were used, which is what "User Base" defines. Sorta like M$ saying Personal Web Server and IE were the two most popular tools of their fields. They counted numbers shipped rather than actual usage.
Believe it or not, IBM is still putting out DB2 for the OS/2 platform (with a free developer version eval). Of course, that is in addition to versions for NT, half a dozen UNIX variants, and (last but not least) Linux. Information can be found out here. (yes, that's the DB2/Linux link, but you can find it from there)
World Beach List, my latest project.
Sure, AOL pulled of amazing success with the same sort of deal, but then to install it all you had to do was D:\install.exe and punch in your credit card info. Although I've never used Corel (r) Linux (r), Im going to assume its similar to many other flavors out there, and isnt as simple to install as D:\gimmelinux.exe, even RedHat requires some tweaking and general knowledge of whats in your PC. The market they are pushing this to, though, is good. Your more likely to get some converts if you push it at the hardware putter-togethers(r). If I had never used Linux, got this Motherboard to build a computer and it came with Linux, Id be thinking to myself "Hrmmm, I've heard an awful lot about this OS, maybe Ill give it a try. Besides, this is a new system, if I dont like it Ill just format and install good ole Windows." But, on the other hand, I feel that you need more then a little taste of linux, and right out of the box it isnt that appealing to the windows clan. I personally installed RedHat 4.0 way back before I had even used any form of Linux, and quickly got rid of it. After I started playing with shell accounts, etc, I really began to love it and made a somewhat slow transistion over. Firs the shells, then a partition on my system for it, then I converted an older box to it, then I built a Dual p2 300 with Linux in mind. So overall, while it really seems like a good idea, sending out all those CD-ROMs propably wont convert near as many people as one might thin; it may even turn them off to the idea. Unless they get introduced gradually, or had access to a fully configured system with all the goodies. Sincerely, Good Ole Judg3!
----------------------------------
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
2. Unlike MS/AOL/etc who will stick a freebie copy of anything anywhere, this actually targets potential Linux users.
What difference does it make for AOL to put a disk in a magazine or send them to a list of people who've bought modems in the past 12 months? They're just as much "a potential user" as are buyers of motherboards are to linux.
It is cool though, that they're doing this. A big deterent probably is the hassle of downloading a distro, followed by actually spending money (no matter how little) on an OS you have no idea if you'll even use. If even 10% of the buyers decide to try out the free OS that came with their Motherboard, it'll make a huge difference
For example, as a college in the Select program, we get NT workstation for about $40. We buy a ton of computers, all preloaded with Windows 98 whether we want it or not. We reformat and install NT on it. But Microsoft counts each machine as two, one for 98, one for NT, in their stats.
Determining a true install base stat is impossible, but many will try. Now the Linux camp can fudge numbers with the best of them. If someone has a Linux CD in their possession, assume they actually installed it!
Has anyone heard when they are going to release a public beta? Last I heard it would be in October...
It made a lot more sense back in '95 or '96 when I made the suggestion. Netscape worked pretty well for me in Linux up until Communicator 4 came out. It's been downhill from there.
I can't deny that these days Netscape would be a poor choice. And yes, of course if they had done it they would have wanted to make sure there was a copy of Netscape for Linux on the Linux disc--isn't that just common sense?
numb
?syntax error
Open BSD is amazingly easy to install. Download one floppy image and rawrite.exe, copy the image to the floppy, boot from it, and install from the Net.
And how exactly do you know that uptimes of years were possible if you kept having to upgrade the kernel? The only way to know if uptimes in the years are possible are to do it. Personally I've never seen one that's been up without a reboot (for whatever reason) for more than several months, just like several NT boxs I know of that have been running for many months without a reboot.
A lot of people have been posting about the horrid quality of PC Chips motherboards. Well, maybe I got lucky again, but I just don't see that.
I own 2 PC Chips M571 (Socket-7) motherboards. One I gave to my grandmother for her first computer. All she uses it for is web browsing.
The second one I kept and have installed FreeBSD on (so I can learn learn learn!:) I've not gotten very far with it, but it does run Xfree86 without any problems and the machine has been rock solid since I installed FBSD. It's a Pentium 166 that's overclocked to 200 and 32 Megs of RAM. I bought the motherboard for around $52 (US). A perfect choice in my opinion. It lets me play with FreeBSD and I didn't have to spend a fortune to do it.
I had the same results with Packard Bell computers. So many people had terrible problems with it, yet I was using my Pentium 75 (O.C.ed to 90) up until 1998! In fact the machine is still being used by a friend of the family for some small network functions on his home LAN. The only thing that went wrong with that machine was the combo sound/modem card went bad after 3 years.
I also have a PC CHips 571LMR board sitting at home waiting to go into my new file server.
My point is that "you win some, you loose some." I guess that I've gotten lucky with these products and some people have not. I do have the feeling that PC Chips has done a lot to improve quality from previous years. They still are not ABIT or ASUS, but they offer inexpensive alternatives. I doubt I would use one for a mission critical piece of hardware, but who is going to be using Corel Linux for anything mission critical anyway?
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
You moron, name a motherboard that is shipped with Windows...that's right the only software motherboards are shipped with are generally drivers, or in the case of Abit some diagnostic software but hardly Windows.
You opened the tag - "PARANOIA", but instead you closed the tag "MODE".
Technically, the rest of your comment fell under the "PARANOIA" tag, while you closed a tag that you never opened.
I think that you should review your posting procedures.
I dunno what's wrong with Caldera's distro, but I got Debian 2.1 to run just fine on my wife's IBM Craptiva with shared video memory... :)
Read my stuff.
I just tried to read the story and I get a "removed" notice.
Possible theories as to why:
1. Not true and parties involved asked to have to it removed.
2. I have really, really bad Karma today.
3. Slashdot effect!
Although they aren't my favorites, I've used a couple of PCchips mobos, a VXpro model that my wife uses with a K5-200 (yes, K5; a few were actually shipped) to run WinNT 4.0, and a TXpro-II (SIS 5598 w/built-in VGA) that I've used to run everything from DR-DOS to Slackware 3.6. The XFree SIS server worked fine, although it was (duh) a little sluggish. As $50 motherboards with built-in SVGA and sound go, I'd say that they can't be beat. ;-)
However, What I would hope to come out of this is that PCchips may actually start to pay attention to whether or not Linux runs on their motherboards; it would be kind of embarassing if they shipped the boards with an OS that didn't run on them (yeah, I know that they haven't seemed to have all that much shame in the past). Still, from this perspective, this deal probably offers about as much hope as we have any right to expect that Linux can be expected to run reliably on some of the cheapest & nastiest little PCs available on the market -- hell, maybe even the sound will work. This is not a bad thing; heretofore, the only thing they would have cared about would have been a basic level of Windows compatibility.
--BobAhh this is the same outfit Corel made a deal with last year to include WP8 with all their Motherboards. The press releases from Corel came spewing forth as they do now.
The Present PC Chips boards are a substandard performer found in the very Low End systems. At 120 CDN for a combo including sound Net and Modem and integrated video.
Mfg problems are evident as the ram sockets vary from batch to batch and a Sledge Hammer is required to install ram on some of the borads.
Seriously, The CD's wont be of much use on the current production batch with the onboard video with shared ram. Even Caldera 2.3 cant install on these babies.
Mind you i am prejudiced. Corel can sign all the deals they want to include their product but will this result in increased use of their products only time will tell. FWIW OEM Corel Office 2000 OEM CD's are going at $20 Cdn each. Shows you what the product is worth.
Free cd's of any type are like cannon fodder; they're delivered to the field with the knowledge that most will go unused, much less browsed through.
The point, however, is not to target users; it's to get a copy into everyone's hands, to overwhelm the natural inertia of computer users and unwillingness to pay for one more thing, much less one more thing that they don't know much about.
Of course, it'll be a pain for Corel to support. Those are the breaks. It's the consequence of sending out your distribution as cannon fodder, to preach to the unwashed masses.
--
--
There is no premature anti-fascism. -Ernest Hemingway
But the only way there will be a "death of MSFT" is via the Death of a Million Paper Cuts that involve not a single "killing" blow, but rather a whole array of tiny, relatively independent injuries that add up.
Other comments have suggested that a more logical step would be to push for Linux pre-installed on (say) Seagate hard drives.
Put all of these things together:
- Some copies getting deployed via bundling with motherboards
- Some copies getting deployed via bundling with disk drives
- Some copies getting deployed via being preinstalled by one of the fifty-odd Linux VARS
And it starts to add up to "a few paper cuts."And the point is not to "beat Microsoft;" that would merely be a convenient sideeffect of doing useful things with Linux.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Many hard drives are already loaded with Windows...something to do with the verification software the HD manufacturers use. An old argument about selling systems without Windows is that it would cost more to install Linux (or any other OS), rather than just plugging in a HD with Win already installed.
I think that if a HD came with Linux installed will have a bigger impact than just shipping a CD with a motherboard. For example, you can get a copy of AOL or Compuserve with almost any computer item you buy, but that doesn't mean we are all using them as our ISP.
Also, I would hate to see a Linux CD be elavated to the drink coaster status like AOL CD's.
I think Corel is really hiting the ground running with their Linux distribution. This is just another (great) way to get linux out there.
;-)
In case anyone's interested, here's an overview of Corel Linux (i'm a beta tester). This is all based on the 2nd Beta Release.
The thing that struck me the most about this distribution is that with the "default" install it asks you exactly 0 technical questions. Even the partition tool was pretty simple, though you can just put it on your current DOS partition and bypass all that. I got through the installation without seeing even a glimpse of the console. In fact, an average windows user could easily use this distribution for years never knowing there even _was_ such a crazy thing. While this may cause some of us who like linux for the things that CL tries to "hide" to shudder, this is exactly what Linux needs. Microsoft (from a marketing standpoint) knew what they were doing hiding DOS behind the clouds... it's the same thing. I'm not saying that with a few minutes of tweaking you can't get the normal linux feel back, just that newbies won't have to deal with it until they're ready. As soon as it was through and I was in X Windows, I clicked on the big Netscape icon out of perhaps morbid curiosity, and to my surprise I had an active connection to my LAN. On other distributions this took alotof tinkering. I think this is what splits the line between computer users... those who want it to work so they can look up a recipe or what have you, and those of us like myself who actually enjoy the process of getting everything to work. In a more philosophical mood I would probably make some journey vs. destination remark. It was a weird, almost empty feeling siting in front of a linux box that had been "auto-configured." Yes, i've tried Caldera, and it has its strong points... but what Corel has done could really make linux approachable to everyone (I would literally trust my grandmother to install CL... just stick the CD in, reboot, and hit next a few times). Hopefully Corel will continue to market this like there's no tomorrow... it could really bring linux to the mainstream.
And besides, this would make up for sending celene dion (think www.corel.ca)
> Linux is doing great in getting to be as easy >as windows, but it's by no means there yet.
"I love comments like these. They're so assinine."
Let's see. Says previous posters comments are asinine. Then goes on to prove that he can do better. Or to put it another way asinine+asinine=(ass)inine.
Sell it while you can!
I don't know what their quality was like a couple of years ago, but I've built 3 PCs with their boards in the past year and all three have worked quite well. I can't get the onboard sound to work under NT or Linux, but it works fine with Win95. The only problem I ran into was Win95's bug with AMD chips over 350mhz. I'm typing this on a system built around an AMD 350mhz TXPro board that is overclocked to 400mhz. Nothing spectacular, but it runs well (especially for $130). I'd buy another one if I needed a motherboard.
Chris
They have an audio version still up right here for those that missed it. Took a little searching. :)
Yes, but then that page at Red Hill is something of a relic. The VXpro rant was written about two years ago, while the rest of the page was written one year ago, in October of 1998. The link that they give to a rant at Carl Industries is dead -- Carl Industries has been shuttered since July of 1999. I recall, however, that even the page at Carl Industries had been softened somewhat before it disappeared; the author said that, to his surprise, he found PCchips to actually be responsive to the problems that their OEM customers faced, and that the quality had markedly improved since he first wrote those words.
I think that a lot of people have had bad experiences with PCchips boards some time ago, or with old boards sold recently and have (with good reason, clearly) stayed away from PCchips boards since. Just like with people who once had a bad experience with a certain brand of car, however, such people will bad-mouth the manufacturer for the rest of their lives without ever trying out the latest models to see if anything has changed.
Just about all boards -- even Tyan and Asus models; heck, even Sun Microsystems boards -- have non-zero early failure rates (AKA "Infant Mortality Rate" or "IMR"), and you can expect that a brand such as PCchips that is cutting things a hair's breadth from the edge will have higher rates than others. A small-time PC assembler that is leveraging low labor costs somewhere can afford to suffer that failure rate as long as the aggregate cost of all the boards that he has to buy to get the required number of good boards, together with the labor costs to do the testing and rework, is substantially less than what it would cost him to buy boards with significantly lower IMRs. If you compare a $40 PCchips board with a $100 Tyan board, it is likely that the assembler will only have to get around 50% good boards to come out ahead, and he probably gets much better than that -- I'd expect that better than 90% of PCchips boards work OK.
As an individual buying a single PCchips board, however, you're entering into something of a crap shoot. Still, as long as you (a) get at least a 90-day warranty, (b) understand the risk, and (c) view price as being much more important than performance, you will probably come out ahead with something like a PCchips board. It's all a matter of trade-offs
You've forgotten one of the basic rules of software:
All software will become sufficiently advanced so that it may read mail. The only thing that is in question is the development timetable.
Proof? What is the oldest bit of continually maintained application software you've seen? Does it read mail? 'Nuff said.
.sig: Now legally binding!
I may try it. More importantly, it may convince some of my win-centric colleagues to give it a go. (I probably wouldn't use it day-to-day, though - my preference for a gui consists mostly of a stack of xterms and dvi/ps/pdf/img viewers for whatever I am hacking up at the time.)
-- open source? sounds like the real book --
removedThis article has been removed.
Um... Why?
"Am I the only one using a Celeron and not overclocking it???"-Me
_______
I just wish I could c:\format Internet
Yeah Yeah... I know, it is different.
Yes I'm an OS bigot too... plus I'm an application segragist. Only mail readers should be able to read mail. Not my editor, web browser, cell phone ( with web browsing technology ), toaster and french poodle.
Really though, this is good for the community, at least get people to ask wtf is this cd?
This space for sale
The big bonus for Linux here is that a major software company, COREL, will now be going around saying. "Linux, hell, we shipped 20 million copies ourselves."
Makes good press for Corel and Linux.
What is a "typical user" anyway?
I would hesitate to use the term "user" for most people.
and what better market to hit than the people who already put their own computers together...
This space for sale
AOL has been doing worse than that. Mass junk-mail addressed to 'postal-patron', not to mention blow-ins in magazines such as Vogue, Elle, and Ladies Home Journal. They're stabbing at air for new business! I suppose you could call this targeted advertising, since AOL does occupy the 'clueless section' of the ISP world.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Think about it...rather than worry about licensing issues, they can pre-install Linux (I'm over-simplifying, I know).
Sure. Just return the CD in its original, unopened package, and they will gladly refund you your $0. :)
Then you join the Linux Refund Day (R) parade and get your $0.00 check from Corel.
CY
<PARANOIA VALUE="on">
Corel floods the market with their breed of Linux, starts offering modules or enhancements that are non-standard to linux, then figures a way to work in some sort of mechanism to keep the other vendors a step or two behind from those enhancements. (Hell, even doing things in a way that the Linux community will not accept, so they don't get on board.)
What we are looking at is the true beginnings of the commercialization of linux.
What to look out for is the massive budgets of organizations like this. All they have to do is dedicate enough of their resources to linux advancement and development and the original developers will not be able to keep up.
Major corporations will begin to run the development process. Original developers will complain, Torvalds will object, the companies will continue. A new central authority will be established to control kernel features. Torvalds will object. Porgress outpaces linux developers, and many get hired by the corporations continue their work. They go along, figuring they are still doing the same thing, just now getting paid for it. Torvalds dissappears, and rumors about a Transmeta experiment gone wrong surface. The remaining linx developers either move to BSD or application development and wostfully think about the good old days. The GPL becomes pointless to the rapid development efforts of a few select corporations now running the show.
</MODE>
Now, i'm not saying this will happen, but when greed and money get into the same boat, it usually sinks. Corel might not take this route, but they will have to take an active role in not letting this happen. Corporations will believe it is in their best interests to continue development in a fashion that best helps their bottom line. The developer is answereable to a manager, the manager to another manager. This continues up until the board of directors, and ultimately the stockholders, who are becoming a very fickle bunch. Concepts and ideas are summarized and distorted as they progress up the chain of command. Most of the higher levels will not even necessarily agree with much less subscribe to the ideas and ideals coming up from below. Their primary concerns are, how will this affect the company, the stockholders, the profitability.
penguinicide... when jumping out a window just won't do.
Is everything that gets linux into the hands of end users good exposure? I know everyone thinks yes at first, but bear with me.
Is mass distribution of linux a good thing? Right now the ignorant public may have heard of linux, but most have not used it or installed it first hand. If they suddenly get a linux cd and install it and they can't get it working or it is too complicated for them, then they just had a bad first impression. Millions of bad first impressions could really slow down the awesome momentum that linux has built up.
As others have pointed out, the mass public aren't buying motherboards to pop into their new case or use with their new Athlon. So this argument might not apply to this distribution of linux.
Buy the high-quality motherboard. ASUS and Tyan are offer conservative engineering, detailed manuals and methodical development work follow-up (i.e., BIOS updates). I've read a good Review of Shuttle's HOT-649A, as well.
If you really have to shave costs, buy a dual-CPU motherboard with an LX chipset and two PII-333's.
Get the product out there. Make it easy as hell for people to use it and get familiar with it. Then they'll start asking their friends to send them files in that format, they'll want upgrades, they'll want more documentation, they'll want support, they'll put it on their resumes. All of that translate into acceptance, and acceptance translates into sales.
Apple did it by sponsoring schools with equipent (Commodore did it too, but didn't follow through after the days of the PET and the C64), Microsoft have been doing it actively with free giveaways of lots of products (IE springs to mind :-).
The idea is simple: You build mindshare, based on the hope that sooner or later someone who know you and your product will buy something from you. After all, most businesses close almost all of their sales with existing customers and users coming back for more.
You are an idiot, a big one
I formally worked as the senior technician at a major southern california computer retail store which sold few pc chips motherboards. I can honestly tell you that pc chips is the LOWEST quality crap i've ever seen. From built in video, to built in sound, to built in modems....sigh.....and the failure rate on these boards is in the 20% range in the first month. Also, PC chips was caught a few years ago using and making fake cache chips on their motherboards. Corel should bundle the OS with abit, or asus, or tyan. But PC Chips?? bad idea
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
Of course, neither of these choices really make sense, because you can't install an OS without a keyboard, monitor, power supply, and either a CD-ROM or floppy disk drive...
Exactly. You've almost answered your own question (to some extent). Every system starts with a CPU and a mainboard. While every part of a system is scrutinized and benchmarked (witness the plethora of hardware sites dedicated to getting every ounce of performance from stuff), if you had to pick two absolutely essential parts of the system, it would be these two.
The logical choice is a hard drive, but when you think system, you don't think hard drive. Besides, with all the OEM HDDs I've seen, most don't ship with anything (except maybe a small utility disk). Also, the simple act of throwing a CD in a mainboard box is pretty simple.
Geoff Wozniak
gzw@home.com
I am /very/ impressed by the coup for Corel. Instead of trying to break into the Microsoft stranglehold on OEM bundling with complete workstations, they're trying to leverage themselves in the Do-It-Yourself industry. This is an excellent manuever, if you stop to think about it.
Most people who buy these motherboards as retail have some modicum of technical prowess. These are the exact same people who would install Linux, out of curiousity, simply because the disk was provided to them. Heck, this even leverages them in with existing Linux users, since we also buy motherboards, and very few Linux geeks can resist the urge to give a new distro a test drive.
Nice trick, Corel!
Weapons of Mass Analysis
Ever since I first saw one of the All-in-one motherboards, I thought they'd make the perfect low-dollar Linux workstation. Please contact PC-Chips to see if the slashdot effect can convince them to use hardware that Linux can support. Or, make docs available, so we can write drivers for the on-board stuff.
They already ship a CD, there is room on it for Linux. There won't be anymore coasters than there are now.
Maybe Abit will start shipping FreeBSD with the BP6. Now there is a fun combo.
This is not necessarily bad. In fact, I think it would be interesting if Microsoft were forced to explicitly position itself as the "luxury" OS, compared to the "cheapies." But the cheapies are likely to soon include not just the various full-featured UNIX-based Free / free OSes, but also the rumored-but-vaporous "non-MS machines" which so many vendors are talking about to run their cheaper-than-the-same-weight-of-dirt Internet Terminals, WWW Appliances and whatnot.
Interesting because a) it might make MS OSes better than they are (I'm no fan, but they do some things fair, middlin' or well -- and it'd be nice to see that aspect continue) and b) I don't think they could actually hold the "luxury" ground very well, which would make for Interesting Times (my favorite chinese curse
But hey -- if Linux can be made to work with lowest-common denominator machines, Great! I think the owners are going to wish for upgrades in the form of faster machines, not "That grand vision of an OS that Microsoft has but that we couldn't afford a few years ago when we bought this piece of junk PC that came with Linux
At least, that's my conjecture.
Cheers,
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Send in 5$, and we'll send you your 0$ back.
PC Chips have earned a horrible reputation for bogus crappy products. "TX-Pro", Fake cache chips on 486 motherboards. I wouldn't get near those dirtbags.
HD are already compatible. If a MBD is nicely compatible with Linux, award them with money. PC-Chips can't include a CD with the HD, they don't sell HDs.
I used to have a PC Chips TX Pro socket 7 motherboard. It was pretty stable, and ran Linux well.. except that the idiots placed the battery-backed RAM/realtime clock chip right behind one of the PCI slots, so that no PCI card could be physically inserted into the slot (without some hacksawing), making the slot unusable..
Or a bigger hope for Linux, is that the users and producers of Linux band together and make a seal to put on hardware boxes, that shows a manufacturer's support of the OS. People buy stuff because it says OK for SCO/HP-UX/Netware/Windows etc. We need a brand for Linux.
One problem with pre-loading, is that the likelihood of getting the partition sizes right is minimal.
Rather, the CDs will be put at the bottom of a pile, perhaps not even given to the customers by whoever sells them. And if they do indeed make their way to the customers' hands, I'm not sure everyone will go, 'Oh, my, look at this! An alternate OS! I shall try to install it by myself!'
But:
I still think it's a big step in the right direction. This shows one thing: it's easy to distribute GPL software and OS. Linux itself, be it the Corel distribution, is essentially cheap, because no one is receiving money or had to be paid for the development of the kernel. So putting a CD in a box as a freebie is a simple matter.
What are the odds of seeing this done with Windows 2000, Word 2000 and Office 2000? You'd end up with the free software costing more than the motherboard.
This is a definite advantage, and I hope other Linux and OSS ventures capitalize on it!
"Knowledge = Power = Energy = Mass"
What motherboard should I pick?
Aside from Asus, Abit, Tyan, etc...
Im looking to build a low cost (read: CHEAP AS HELL) Linux box. Dual p3-500 or so. I was looking into motherboards made by Matsonic and Pine Technology. Couldnt really find any info about em online, so I was curious if anyone here ever used em. They only run in the 110$ or so, so should I say forget it and get a highquality mobo?
----------------------------------
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
This will get Linux into many more hands; you can't go to a small PC store without tripping over those cheap integrated PCChips motherboards.
I personally use a PCChips m750i dual processor motherboard with two Celeron 300A's running at 450 - makes a kick-ass Linux box (currently running Mandrake 6.1) - although I am going to put a different video card in it.
Normally a lot of small shops sell PC's without an OS, and in small print have "+100 for Windows 98" - now they can say "Comes pre-loaded with Corel Linux + WordPerfect (add Windows 98 for $100)"
I expect Linux to keep growing; don't forget about the Mexican governaments project for Linux labs in all Mexican schools - just think of all those millions of new Linux users every year!
--------- Webmaster, http://www.cpureview.com and
It's exponential. For every b units, a new unit is added (b is the base). So Y=k * b^t , where k is some positive constant.
If you take the logarithm of something that's growing exponentially, then you get a straight line. That is, use a logarithmic display/graph paper to see exponential growth as a straight line.
You are so right, alas. See Red Hill's comments on PC Chips motherboards.
I don't know if I like this. I use WordPerfect 8 for Linux and like it, but it's not up to the standard of WP8 for Windows.
I'm afraid 20 million people will try Linux with the old WordPerfect and get a bad impression.
I'd feel much better if they'd wait until WP9 for Linux is available and shipped that.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
I have no problems with bundling a CD with another product. But what I *DO* have a problem with is forcing one product to be installed before the other can run (ala IE 5 and Win98)
"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)
"
1 999.htm
"Corel's efforts in building an easy-to-use Linux OS and porting its
world-class applications over to Linux make it a major player in this
new market," said Johnson Yang, chairman of PC Chips. "This alliance
gives us the opportunity to provide our customers with a Linux OS that
is easy to install and simple for all users to adapt to. We are looking
forward to providing our customers with this high quality, valuable
alternative.""
http://corel.com/news/1999/november/november_1_
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
I would pay good money to see that one.. An OS, bundled with the browser, instead of vice versa.
Weapons of Mass Analysis
Most of these boards will be purchased by systems builders like myself rather than by the consumer market. Needless to say, with all hope, these builders do have a clue or two. A bare fraction of these boards will make it into the consumer's hands, so it's up the the systems builders to add Linux to their line of offerings. I use PCChips for my Win98 computers and am curious to see how the new boards run with Linux. My Linux line uses more performance oriented parts, but I wouldn't mind building an entry level home system for the geek-wannabe. Most of their boards are integrated, so I also want to see if they've written drivers for the Davicom lan, onboard modem, sound and SiS video. I've installed Linux on the 748LMRT board just for kicks and only the video worked (though there is only limited support for the SiS chips - I hope that changes). They make good cheap computers for those who just want to browse the internet and write some letters and maybe explore a new OS. I for one am looking forward to seeing how many other board-makers start following suit - we could very well see the full spectrum of distributions out there here pretty soon. What flavor would you like with your motherboard sir? :)
My old motherboard did not come from PC Chips but It did run Linux on a TXPro chipset for a year and a half with a K6-200. It worked just fine. BTW the TX-Pro is actually the Ali Alladin IV chipset.
- Full kernel support for all MB features: One might think that should be a matter of course by now.
- A BIOS flashing utility for Linux: How many people still keep a small DOS part. for this very purpose? (Yes, I kown about the
/dev/bios patch, but that alone won't cut it.) - LILO integrated into the BIOS: Well, that would be cool, wouldn't it?
- BIOS setup utilities for Linux: Batch installing 1000 PC's including BIOS settings with a Linux boot-disk could really make a difference for OEMs.
- An Open Source BIOS: The logical final goal, see also The Open BIOS Project.
But as with all things that require real comittment, it probably isn't going to happen until Linux has won the game by its own strengths, anyway.can I get a refund if I don't use it? That $0 means a lot to me.
Dan "Moderators will troll me" Turk
I've never gotten Linux to run reliably on them (granted, these are older Socket-7 era motherboards). If you're looking for technical info, good luck. Their web site is slower than molasses, on a 56k modem or something... There's even a (tongue in cheek) PC Chips Lottery site, in which you can attempt to guess your motherboard model, and if you "win," you get a feeble amount of info on your board.
In short, if I were Corel, this is NOT the sort of relationship I'd be looking for. :)
Hopefully, Corel Linux won't be a garbage distribution that annoys people as much as windows currently does. This could be good for the linux community in general, but it could also feed the FUD beast if the dist falls on it's face. Guess we'll just have to wait and see ....
Pc tech makes probaby the worst mainboards in the world. I got one of these boards 2 years ago (pentium class for $100), it had cache issues, and when I tried upgrading the bios, motherboard's flash rom got corrupted because flash upgrade on ftp was corrupted. They didn't even bother to zip it.
I think AOL cds are too good for these boards. There are tons of better mobo makers (Abit, Aopen, even FIC) and I don't like idea that PC Tech got the call.
By the time the CDs are in the hands of the end users, they will be out of date anyway.
If you've ever seen motherboards with TX-Pro, VX-Pro, or BX-pro on the chipset heatsink, then you've seen a PC chips board. These boards are at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality. Now it may be possible that the company has raised its standards and begun producing at least passable boards, but I'll believe that when I see it. I've had nothing but problems with these boards. I'd much rather see a vendor like Tyan or Abit or Soyo bundle linux with their boards. Who knows, maybe they will. :)
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
MS didn't give IE away. They bundled it with windows (whic is everything but free) just like Netscape is bundled with Red Hat Linux. I am not going to debate the merit of the anti trust case against Microsoft - I have strong feelings on the subject but that's another discussion for another time.
Just pointing out that it is just not the same situation at all.
Well done. Now, if ASUS and Gigabyte would accept to do the same.. ;)
...and maybe he will eventually be critically wounded. This type of strategy must hit close to the quick, as this is how The Borg came to dominate the OS market. Is this really a good thing for Linux? Marketing is a little frightening... Now if only Dr. Cowpland could keep ahead of the security regulators...
Okay, I will admit it. I'm not the world's greatest vi expert.
How do I read email with vi, then?
Please don't tell me I can use vi as the editor and the mail command. That's not reading email with vi.
Why would Microsoft pay PC Chips to bundle Linux with their motherboards? Simple: To prove that they're not the only company who gets their OS shipped with a large number of computers out there...great anti-anti-Trust lawsuit material.
They might be shipping Linux with their motherboards, but a.) how many people are going to even pay any attention to those CDs that come with their motherboards? b.) what percentage of those people who _do_ pay attention to the CD are going to get a working Linux system running on their own?
Look at it this way: probably 3/4s of the people who buy PC Chips' cheap motherboards are going to be buying them because they're cheap, and they don't really know they're not the best board in the world...these same people probably aren't going to have the patience to read all the documentation, and get a linux system running happily on their own (especially on these lower-quality motherboards), so what this is going to end up doing is leaving a really bad taste of Linux in their mouths. Which is exactly what Microsoft wants.
So Microsoft gets a two-for-one deal here. They get fodder for their anti-trust defense, as well turning a large number of people off of Linux... Doesn't seem like quite as good of a thing now, does it?
They sell the same product, just under a different brand name. Just another way they dupe ppl. :)
Yes, most PC Chips boards are terrible. Cool idea but extremely low quality. I think its a bad move for Corel to be associated with such a low quality company. Corel should have held out for a better company to do this with... I've got two of the PC Chips 7041LMR boards sitting here that have blown voltage regulators and there only 3 months old.
PC Chips is junk...
DrWatt
On the other hand, preloaded harddisks would likely be overwritten by VARs preinstalling Windows etc.
Since Corel is releasing its Linux distro for free download on 15 Nov when officialy debuted at Comdex, I imagine that further OEM deals will be announced shortly after. Isn't odd that this is happening just as the judge is about to rule on the DOJ/Microsoft case? I don't think Linux will ever replace Windows(soon) but Microsoft can now point to Corel and say that here is a company that is shipping 20 million + copies of an alternative OS with a full suite of applications. Not really a threat but the mere appearance of competion could help Microsoft.
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
This isn't going to be pretty folks... most of the vendors who would actually sell PC Chips boards to people are going to use cheaper components all around. You're likely to see lower-grade memory and power supplies in these boxes too, and overall they'll be a lot less reliable than a Windozer from someone reputable enough to use good parts.
You've been duped to high heaven then, fella. The usage of alternate manufacturers and re-labeling of products with their own brand is prevelent throughout nearly all industries. Hell, even VA Linux uses an outside, contracted manufacturer to build their systems. That doesn't mean you're getting a bunch of crap - that means people are turning to companies that specialize in manufacturing their desired product rather than trying to manufacture them themselves. In many cases, you're probably getting a better product. This isn't a defense of PC Chips, but an illumination of the way businesses do business...
I can't believe how many of the comments I've seen on this news item so far have been either outright negative or in a "yeah, but..." tone. People, it's this simple: Either Linux and the companies that are investing it pursue every possible legal means of distribution, like this PC Chips/Corel deal, or we get used to seeing 90% of the market being run by you-know-who. Personally, I think this is terrific news for everyone who uses a desktop computer, particularly Linux Lovers.
Yeah, well, MS gave away Internet Explorer, and everyone bitched hard about "dumping." This in spite of the fact that IE5 is a smaller, stabler offering for PCs and Macs than anything Netscape has made. MS will never win in the minds of bigots.
It's not like you could install it on only the motherboard. If you're going to bundle it with any single piece of hardware, the logical choice would be the hard drive. If you buy a motherboard, you could just be replacing a broken one. If you buy a hard drive, you're going to have lots of extra room to put a new OS on. Of course, neither of these choices really make sense, because you can't install an OS without a keyboard, monitor, power supply, and either a CD-ROM or floppy disk drive (not on a normal system anyway. I could concieve of a system where you install an OS via a network card or something...).
--
Seeing is believing; You wouldn't have seen it if you didn't believe it.
Dude, those AOL coasters have led to AOL being
bigger than all other ISP's put together.
If that is what will happen with Corel Linux,
it will be awesome.
I want one of these CD's.
But what if I don't want Linux with my motherboard? Can I get a discount if I don't want Linux with my motherboard?
...
Whine, whine, whine, whine
but this won't quite cut it. We need Linux pre-installed on computers, not just bundled with components.
I bet it will help gain a few converts, but most of the CDs will probably become coasters...
I like the concept a lot. I would rather have any Linux distro than the AOL CD that comes with my Sunday newspaper anytime.
I just hope that it is a well done distro. I'd reather see something conservative but reliable than some of these cutting edge distros that have a lot of rough edges.
Now all we need is RedHat + SuperMicro, SuSe + ABit, etc.
Maybe that's what the new RedHat non-profit should be doing? Stuffing the Sunday newspaper with cheap Linux CD's?
No way, jose. You're not even closed to Phirst Poast, mister FOURTEEN!! I got it, and you didn't! HA HA! Phear me, loser!
I wish someone would have told me they were crap before I bought one for my first do-it-yourself PC. Nothing but problems, now I know why. I'm ready to throw the piece of crap out.
The one that wasn't made by PC Chips...
--
--
My sometimes helpful blog
Linux will be crawling around like roaches at a flophouse. Sure, 99.9% of them will be microwave ammo and coasters but at least no one can give the old, "It's such a long download..." excuse with a straight face.
and of couse the obligatory, "101 uses for Linux disks." Scary.
The single worst thing about the 'Open Source movement' is that it is bringing about an army of marketers.
Come on guys! This what the marketing department of Corel and Microsoft do! "Hmmm. So, will this increase our user base?"
"Yes but will they find the software usefull?"
"Herbert! Get the new guy out of here now!"
I pity what the Open Source movement has turned into.
***Beginning*of*Signiture***
Linux? That's GNU/Linux to you mister!
I could not agree more! PCChips is easily the worst excuse for a support chipset it's ever been my misfortune to encounter. Any motherboard with their set on it, no matter how well made it may appear to be, is an automatic red flag to my eyes. I just wish someone like FIC or Asus had decided to do this... now THOSE are motherboards!
Not to troll too badly, but sounds to me like almost everybody here is an OS bigot. It is terribly uncool for Microsoft to package their OS with anything, yet it is great for Corel to do it because it is Linux. I bet this wouldn't be a good thing if it were a flavor of Windows.
Now to be fair, this isn't a full system and it isn't being forced down my throat on a hard drive. Certainly I have the option of pitching these disks in the dumpster if I don't accept the liscence as opposed to MS's mandatory compliance.
Heck, even I tried to return my copy of Windows 9x to Toshiba and Microsoft and neither of them wanted it. I could've used the cash too, oh well. I'll assume that Corel is giving this for 'free' as marketing so I can't return it for cash either, but again this is different.
Anyone happen to know or have a gander at what the terms are for this distribution agreement?
This space for sale
Consider the purchasers of motherboards that are out there. If a middleman is assembling a computer and selling it to a user, the middleman will stick windows on it anyway. If a user is buying a motherboard for himself, chances are that he already knows where he's gonna get the OS and what distribution of that OS it's gonna be. I doubt that this will be very influential in any grand way. However, it is very great news that PC Chips is supporting linux in this manner.
One other issue is why exactly PC Chips is working with Corel and not any of the other distributions. With a combination of GNOME and/or KDE with StarOffice, it seems that you get the same functionality. However, I guess Corel is a very well-known company and something that came from the makers of Word Perfect may be looked at more favorably by an unknowing consumer.
Another side note -- it's great that Corel is willing to package at least a thin manual and a CD with every motherboard. I wonder what they hope to gain from this venture, because as we all know it's only about the bottom line.
-S
Corel is taking a page out of the software marketing manual on this one.. 'Get 'em hooked on the free copy/demo we'll give out with X, and then market them into the full-fledged $279.99 version.' I see this working even better for Corel than with the normal purveyors of braindamaged demo-ware. Why?
1. They're giving out the $279.99 version from the get-go.
2. Unlike MS/AOL/etc who will stick a freebie copy of anything anywhere, this actually targets potential Linux users.
3. All they're looking for is user-loyalty; They're not giving the freebie recipient the hard-sell.
On the other hand, I can see this benefiting the MB manufacturer, because a free copy of Linux adds far more value than Yet Another AOL CD(tm). Two identically featured MBs, similar price, but one comes with a free Linux CD? Which would you buy?
Lemme see, what other pages from the marketing manual can we on the OSS front use?
.sig: Now legally binding!