386 Based Linux Powered Telephone

nizo writes "A touchphone that sits on your desk running Linux! Has a builtin touchscreen for dialing a number, makeing notes, etc. Wonder if these are for sale in the U.S. ? " The website isn't english, but it looks pretty cool. Very nice design. Features an 8 inch touchscreen, and does email and faxing just for good measure. Runs what is described as a stripped down Red Hat 4.2 (there does seem to be some issue about them releasing the code as required by the GPL, but I'm sure they'll make good on their obligation in that dept should they ship the product). Good to see Linux running small appliance devices like this. I'm sure we'll see a lot more in the coming months.

Comments

Windows CE

[mosch]

The phone touted on their website is a 486, running "Windows CE, a new and revolutionary operating system from Microsoft"

Le sigh.

VoiceMail.

[belial]

In case you missed the whole 'big deal' about
mp3, recording quality sound is disk intensive.

Can somebody (perhaps the LWN author?) comment?

[Ami Ganguli]

Obviously this thing runs Wince, but whoever wrote the article seems to have talked to somebody who implemented Linux on the thing. So...

1. Linux was implemented first and now they' re switching to Wince, or

2. Wince was implemented first and now they're switching to Linux, or

3. They have two versions, one Linux and one Wince.

Choice three seems unlikely - why would you support two operating systems for an embedded device? Sadly, choice 1 seems the most likely based on the flashing "New Windows CE" text on their web site.

Can somebody who actually speaks Italian or is associated with the company clear this up?

Perhaps they'll change their minds...

[Ami Ganguli]

With all the Linux hype lately, they might find that the Microsoft marketing hype isn't as useful as it was a year ago.

A prominant Tux logo might actually do more for sales than a 'Windows Powered' logo.

Re:The wonders of open source

[Oblio]

Actually, on one boring afternoon I tried the while(1) fork bit. Running as a user, it certainly didn't bring down my box. I think users are limited to two hundred open threads or some such.

That said, when I did it as root, it certainly slowed things down incredibly. Can't remember if it crashed it though.

Re:Imagine what's next

[Hrunting]

Just because a system uses an open kernel doesn't mean it's an 'open-sourced' system. Not all the software that runs on my Linux box is open-source.

John Carmack had an interesting take on that in his .plan today, about people starting in with, "Now that the Quake source is GPL'd, that means that Quake mods have to be GPL'd as well!" It's not true, and I don't think companies will start selling 'open-source PDAs'. People might start developing them on their own, but selling a phone requires a certain amount of propriatarianism.

TouchPhone followup

[Corbet]

As the guy who wrote the LWN TouchPhone feature, I feel I should ought to point out a couple of things...

...starting with the fact that I wrote that feature last spring. Slashdot was a little slow on the uptake this time around...

The site is in Italian, as many have surmised.

The sad thing is that the next version of the TouchPhone is evidently going to be based on Windows CE instead. One of the developers from Prisma (who did the TouchPhone code) tells me the change is due to "Microsoft's extreme marketing power." He also points out that the CE-based phone has been nothing but talk for a long time, while the Linux-based system has been out there and working for even longer.

I plan to talk to the people at Sorgenti and do a followup once I figure out what's really going on.

jon

Doesnt it run windows CE?

[doomy]

But did you see the bit about Windows CE on this page? What does it mean in english?

Scorpi il nuovo !Windows CE! --?!
--

The wonders of open source

[DeathB]

It will be nice to see people learing about how open source can benifit them. Reading their website, they already have a phone which can run Windows CE. With the chances of Microsoft giving out source code being between slim and none, linux gives them a chance to rework the OS around the specific add-on hardware, and add whatever sort of a GUI they see fit. With as cheap and as small as old 386 hardware can be done these days, along with other processor types that linux has been ported to, this is probably just one of the first of many.

It'll also be interesting to see if any of the hand-held vendors go a similar direction, due to the lack of source, stability, and customization available with Windows CE, combined with the high expense of writing an operating system from scratch.

Re:The wonders of open source

[GC]

I have Windows NT running with Office 2000 at work and for some reason every so often when I go to the Edit menu in Word or Excel the system freezes, I can't CTRL-ALT-DEL, I can't even power the machine off (damn ATX) - the only way I can resolve the problem is to pull the power cable from out the back.

Granted however, I think WinCE is more stable, but that is in it's design.

Re:The wonders of open source

[conio]

...due to the lack of source, stability, and customization available with Windows CE...

Why do people assume Windows CE is unstable and uncustomizable? Windows CE is well-suited for its task -- powering embedded devices on a number of architectures. It's actually a very stable OS, as any user will tell you; it's also very flexible, as any developer will tell you.

Many people don't realize that an operating system is only as stable as its applications. Windows is perfectly stable as long as you're running well-written (don't laugh) programs such as Office and the Windows Accessories. And just as third-party apps can crash Windows, a simple main() { while(1)fork(); } will bring down any Unix box.


--

That slashdot authors..

[Axe]

The web site states it is a 486 based, with a 10 inch BW display, not 386 with 8"...

Please, he's just Karma whoring again

[Zico]

• Step 1: Post as soon as possible, because some people won't bother wading through all the later comments before moderating.
• Step 1: Insert gratuitous slam on Microsoft to make most of the moderators giddy.
• Step 2: Write one sentence that actually has to do with the article, thereby maintaining some semblance of being on-topic. Why only one sentence? Because actually taking the effort to write something with any meaning usually takes more than a few seconds, thus conflicting with Step 1.

If you've seen one Signal_11 post, you've seen 'em all. You know the truth no matter how low you moderate this post.

Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com

More clarifications and translations.

[kinkie]

profilo tecnico means "technical specifications"
"sirio" is a very common telephone model here in Italy. Just your basic phone, nothing fancy. It's common because it's supplied by the (soon to be ex-) phone monopolist company.

Now about the press releases:

First one:
SMAU '99
Communicate touch after touch
TOUCHPHONE is the new easy-to-use telephone which makes using comunications systems easier: thanks to a big touchscreen, all functions can be activated by simply touching a display.
(skip, they talk about where it will be introduced to the public).
The TOUCHPHONE is an intelligent telephone, an instantaneous Internet access, a PDA, an answer machine, an e-mail manager; a synthesis of the higher electronic technology, expressed as an intelligent product allowing simple and fast communications. Thanks to its versatile technology, and to the OS WindowsCE, the Touchphone allows new functions and services for its users. (skip, it talks of dedicated services from some commercial partners, including banks and phone companies).
With a modern and elegnant design, TOUCHPHONE adapts to different settings in an essential and beautiful manner.
produced by:
Sorgenti s.r.l.
Via Borgomanero 13
28040 Paruzzaro (NO)
Tel. +39-0322-230071
Fax. +39-0322-538400

Notice: SMAU is Italy's biggest IT showcase (If I remember correctly, we're talking about 1 million visitors in 5 days). It's held at the beginning of November.

The second press review is very short, and only deals with the thing's price: Lit. 1.400.000, or 723 Euros (or USD).

The word "Sorgenti" that's all over the place is the producer's name: it translates to "Sources".

Yes, but how much?

[WareW01f]

Any one out there catch the price on this one? This is like the ultimate in POS devices!

As for do we need it, think about everytime you dial up someplace and get the typical "Please listen carefully to the following options..." I know I personally would like to just be able to read them as opposed to sitting through all of them as they "may have changed". Another one would be getting bank info. Most banks are still not convinced they should put services on the Web due to security and use the direct dial method.

This is actually just what I've been looking for.

Uhhh, that's Italian, not French.

[berniecase]

The site is in Italian, for those who didn't realize it already.

By the way, pretty sweet looking phone. Sure like to have it to replace this crappy phone on my desk.

--Bernie

Re:"stable apps?"

[conio]

So, as long as we only run Freecell, Solitaire, WordPad and Word, we need never worry that Windez will crash? :)

Correct.

And would invite more monopoly attitudes.

It doesn't have anything to do with these programs being written by Microsoft. It just so happens that Microsoft programs are, for the most part, stable. I could have said SecureCRT, for example. Or perhaps WordPerfect.

I was just trying to make a point. :\


--

Translation...?

[1010011010]

"Scopri il nuovo !windows ce!" (on the front page) means, approximately, "you discover the new one !windows ce!" (according to babelfish). Whatever the heck that means. Maybe "Up yours, CE!".

The Profilo Tecnico says this:
Cpu 486 " Intel " Ram Memory: 8 Mb Simm Hard Disk: 1.2 GB -- parallel for external connections 10.4" LCD DISPLAY, monochromatic, backlit VGA 640 x 480 Low emission
Hard Disk: 1.2 GB
9.4" TOUCH SCREEN High precision and fast Activation -- touch with finger or pen
MODEM/FAX 32 V. bis - 14.400 bps Group 3 fax reception and transmission: Protocol T.30 supported In agreement with standards V.33, V.17, V.29, V.27 ter and V.21 channel 2
Power loudspeaker: 200 mW microphone sensitivity: 44 dB

One of the press reviews (in italian as well) says this:

Those that seems sure is that of these terminals beyond to the main functions, of all similar to the classic " Sirio " those that it hits is the operating system, rigidly " Windows style " if not quite Windows tout cour in Paradoxical and meaningful dwarf-version CE. the distance of the small novarese society Sources that evoluto a more rather based product on simple an operating system has introduced the past year and robusto developed in house on Linux platform. All the functions of a traditional telephone under the screen to sfioramento of this Touchphone terminal, more electronic mail, rubrica, email. Too much little for the smaliziata user the only one would be said, that produced of the sort they can stimulate: the society is last this year to Windows CE implementing also Internet navigation. " we have made a great job in order to conserve extremely simple the graphical interface with which the terminal is NATO, and to render invisibile Windows CE "

... which doesn't clear it up a whole lot for me. Does Linux really "render invisible" the "dwarf-version CE" on this thing, or what?

Re:*italien*, pas fran�ais!

[Yebyen]

I don't see anything that specifies frenchness... only "It's not in english".

I want one!

[dourk]

Personally, running linux isn't really as neeto as being able to talk to mom on the phone, ask for that meatloaf recipie, have her tap into her database, and zap it right into mine. Without having to find a pen or paper to write it down.

posted with mozilla m12!

That Aint French

[BootSpooge]

Looks like Italian to me. I found this site
nearly a year ago, IIRC, And they still have
not released the source code. The phone it's
self is pretty cool, as is what they've done
to the kernel. It's got a little hard drive
in it and they've tweeked the file system
so a fsck is not needed if tou kick the plug.
Still I'm wondering if they will ever release
the source.

Re:huh?

[TPx]

BTW, the phone has debuted at SMAU 99 (kinda like a little Comdex. Little...) in early october. They were hosted inside the Microsoft stand, along all the other Windows CE devices. Makes one doubt it would run linux at all, eh?

Now, running Babelfish on their press release:

TOUCHPHONE is the new telephone, simple to use that it facilitates the telecommunication services: thanks to a screen touchscreen, of great format and visibility, all the functions come activated touching the display simply. The new TOUCHPHONE will come introduced to Smau ' ' 99 (Milan, 30 September 4 October). Microsoft Stand (pad.22), Wind (pad.15/1 b 37), Ambrosian Bench Veneto / Cariplo (pad.14/1 b12 - c13), Sources (pad.15/1 b 36). The TOUCHPHONE is an intelligent telephone, an immediate access to Internet, an agenda electronic, one telephone secretariat, an electronic mail manager; the synthesis of worst electronic expressed in an intelligent product for one simple, fast communication and without limits. Thanks to the versatilità of its technology and to the operating system Microsoft Windows CE, the Touchphone makes available with partners of primary relief, new functions and new services for its customers.

Update on the web site, and an little idea.

[dudle]

The website is not in French but in Italian.

Reading the article on linux weekly news, I see that the only problem these guys had was related to a corrupt file system.
I never shut down gracefully my phone, and I know that I am not the only one.

My question is : how expensive would it be to use Flash Ram instead of a hard drive? Look at Cisco routers, they don't have HD ...

But I don't know anybody who unplug his router to make room for the coffee machine though :)

Tight HW requirements

[Gurlia]

I just love it. Just when MS is burning mountains of cash trying to force CE down people's throat in the embedded market, the little Penguin comes along and says, "Hey, got a spot in this embedded phone project?" -- "Yeah, but we have tight HW requirements..." -- "No prob, I can run on a 386 with minimal RAM!" Bye-bye MS bloatware, Linux rules!

Linux has been a lot of things since it came into being. One of the best things it still is (and hopefully continue to be), is that it does not come with idiotic system requirements. MS bloatware's requirements (need i80986 at 500MHz, 2.1GB of RAM, 4GB of spare HD space, at MINIMUM) is just ridiculous. OK, I'm exaggerating. But you get the idea. To me, it sounds like both a marketing strategy to milk the cash cow by not bothering about bugs in your software so that users need to continually upgrade, and making each upgrade require so much *minimum* hardware that the poor user has no choice but to dish out more cash and upgrade hardware as well as software. Then along comes Linux, minimum requirements? i386, couple of MBs of RAM, and away you go. OK, it's not quite that, if you want X and other big software like that, but at least Linux is adaptable enough to be able to run on minimal HW. Windows? It comes as a 500lb package. Take it or leave it. Either you show your $$$ or go sit in the corner and cry. (Until a nice Penguin comes your way :-)

Lazy bastards.... j/k

[neojikuu]

Sure, its cool, but come on. Is society that lazy that we need a computer to dial phone numbers for us. *blech*

1.2 GB HDD?!?!?!

[Anonymous Cowpoop]

Why would you put a 1.2 GB HDD in it? E-mail? No. Faxes? No. Linux Kernel/OS? No. Ok, thats all of my ideas, what are yours?