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Audi Pulls Website Because Of Y2K
pinhead writes "Audi (USA) has voluntarily pulled their site because of the Y2K scare." What, are they afraid that the website will suddenly start displaying pictures of Volvos? The funniest notice we've seen today is this memo from the Auckland Airport issued 1900 years ago. Y2K has appeared mostly harmless thus far, but we may die of laughter. Update: 12/31 04:30 by E : The Auckland Airport page has been fixed.
Hey, I said talking about. I'm not planning on doing anything.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Do you shutdown your servers every weeks just because it's Friday in some parts of the world and Saturday in others? Why would it make any difference at 1999-2000?
Is this standard procedure on every new year? Seems like pretty fragile software.
cos perl is used in CGI and not C dimwit ?
What's the point of Y2K verification if you aren't going to be around on Y2K?
To purchase it is not like spending money but rather it is an investment in the future in a blow against the empire
The other half of the world could have just been blown up by nukes, hey, who knows...
interstingly, http://www.vw.dk/ is up.
They just fixed it...it's now reading the correct year of 2000. Maybe they realized all the traffic must be for some reason, and took a look at it. Oh well, at least I got to see it while it was still 100.
Are the people who took down their website because it's a new year -really- going to be intelligent enough to even think of that?
Besides, www.audiusa.com/anything gives you a very nice not found page, with links to their entire site. It's still up. They just changed the main page.
the auckland airport notice that all has dandy has since been updated. it no longer has the year 100, but year 2000, in the date.
Or, translated into plain English:
Sorry, we have temporarily disabled this module. We at Audi don't know how to run a secure web site. We keep our database records on our web server. Full service will be restored on January 1st, 1900.
The polaroid site has been stripped to the homepage, which has a notice that is is being "upgraded" and will be available again on New Year's day.
I would suppose this to be an example of hacker fears - I would assume that they figured without server scripts they'd be that much less hackable...
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I agree, and they are still "nifty." I own a 1968 VW Type III fastback, which is a rare beast here in Philadelphia, PA. How I long for the days when I didn't live on a steep incline, when I could get underneath it and work without the fear that the crummy emergency brake would give out, killing me. Ferdinand Porsche was a brilliant man. "Volkswagens don't leak oil, they MARK THEIR TERRITORY."
-somnambule
So the Web site comes down for half a day. Big deal. Many sites, like ours, get most of their traffic during workdays. Weekends and holdays (and, especially, holidays that fall on weekends) see much less traffic. We have very little to gain by staying online, and a lot to lose. So the site comes down.
We're talking about shutting down our site, but more because of script kiddies taking the opportunity to mess with sites than because of a Y2K problem.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Sorry guys, I got all political there for a second, and one thing most know is that fist doesn't ever get political and stuff. I guess it's the millenium thing got me all angsty. To be ontopic for a change, does anyone know of a mirror of the darn thing? I know at least one other AC is keeping a list on his webpage (the y2k bug article) and would probably like it for posterity...
fist prost
The friendly first poster
Any Y2K problems are not going to make ANYTHING think it's 100AD. More likely 1900AD. It's funny, but I guess I'm just picky.
I'd simply keep a working backup somewhere to re-upload (images and all). Or do what that one guy with the bike shop did, make a fake hacked page with a link at the bottom to the real thing. If you check the attrition mirrors a lot of the 'nicer' crackers are at least saving the original somewhere nowadays...
fist
Anyways, if it was hardcoded, then it isn't a Y2K issue... Sorry to spoil the fun, guys.
--Fesh
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
I went to the site, hit Print. It seemed to get stuck in the print queue, so I refreshed and hit Print again. I walked over to the printer and found two copies - one that said 1 Jan 100 and another that said 1 Jan 2000. I must have refreshed just as they were fixing it. Wheeheee! :)
Anyone thinking about Y10k? -- Me Dan Bernstein. He was the one that lobbied the Usenet committees to make date formats survive y10k, and proposed the TAI64 time format, which helpfully lasts from the big bang to the big crunch. Add another 64 bits and you can individually address every attosecond in the whole span.
Most likely it was a little inside joke. Which unfortunatly got seen by too many people who thought it was real and it had to be removed (if you look now it says 2000).
Some sites, as I understand it, are shutting down because they are worried about certain weak pieces of software being exploited (such as MS Exchange Server).
nmap -sS 198.137.240.92 -O -F -o oops.log
i think i speak for most of the windows users on slashdot as i say:
huh?
I think i speak for most of the windows users on slashdot as i say:
You mean all 3 of them?I can understand why they pulled the site...I mean, "What, are they afraid that the website will suddenly start displaying pictures of Volvos?" might sound trivial for most people, but not if you're stuck driving one. 240DL stationwagon, 10 years old, 200,000 miles, beat up to hell (many small pieces are broken off, in various parking lots and highway shoulder rails).
--------
Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Why should special accomidations be made for you, when most Windows-only software, hardware, file formats, and protocols are designed to make life as difficult as possible for non-Windows users?
http://www.netcraft.com/whats/?host=www.subaru.com
www.subaru.com is running Apache/1.3.9 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 PHP/3.0.12 on Linux
A nice car! Eats A4's for lunch, without a single mod. Throw an Eaton or a Garett on there, with a bilstien/wrx suspension, and S4/M3's would fall just as quickly, for a hell of a lot less money too.
What reasonably likely to occur power problem could cause hardware damage to your Starfire?
The page is more than likely a bad Perl program. The localtime function (what most people use to get the date), returns a list with the hour, minute, day, month, etc. It returns the year as the number of years since 1900, hence in 1999 it would have returned 99 and now it would 100.
Erm, localtime in Perl is based on the C library function of the same name and behaviour. So I don't see why Perl programmes are more likely to be b0rked than C programmes.
Indeed, this could be the root of a y2k bug in many Perl scripts. I'm self-taught in Perl, and discovered many things (the hard way) on my own. This was one of them. But you gotta admit, returning "the number of years since 1900" seems pretty lame.
You'd think that the localtime function could be rewritten to simply return the full year in a 4-digit format. Aside from messing up scripts that do $year+=1900, why not?
For those out there more knowledgeable than I, why hasn't this been done?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Okay, I can follow that. Except for the whole idiotic notion that the power is going to go out. What have you done to prepare for the unicorn stampede that I've predicted for Jan 2? (Hint, nothing, nothing nothing.) Most of these y2K "preparations" are nothing more than some sort of odd hedging your bets against an apocalypse that isn't coming. Don's bottom line if you're afraid of the end of the world, then turning off the web server doesn't matter.
--
Linux user since early January 1992.
i think i speak for most of the windows users on slashdot as i say:
huh?
Yeah, Windows users seem to say that a lot..
:-)
are you running an e10k without UPS ??? or general power conditioning ??? bad bad bad bad bad And if you got a starfire I am SURE u have a service contract....SUN to the rescue :)
I guess URL Masters haven't scrubbed their templates yet.
I really wonder who came up with all these wonderful ideas and what stuff they have been smoking at the time.
--
Linux user since early January 1992.
Hmmm, they take off at 1/1/2000 00:04, go east, cross the date line, where it is still 12/31/1999 and about 16-18 hours later, experience the millenium rollover AGAIN?
Three cheers for getting back to work!
Tim
LinuxLocal.com for full-time 100% Linux Consultants
As is audi.com. (Not the USA site.)
Besides breaking existing software, as you said, it would also add needless confusion. Right now Perl's localtime function is identical to C's. C's can't be changed because it would also break a lot of existing software. It would just be a huge, huge mess, for no real benefit.
Click here to get to the site map. Only the main index.htm page was disabled. The entire rest of the site is up and running. Just more proof that "webmasters" who took their 2 week course on Frontpage are experts at nothing.
Anyone out there want a 1992 Audi 100S?
While I've been a loyal Audi fan/owner for over 15 years, I'm affraid that when my co-workers hear about Audi's "millennium madness" over Y2k, I'm toast. So much for my plans to buy an A8 and TT this year.
Can someone put up a mirror of the Auckland Airport page before it got fixed. Picturing the "100" there is almost funny enough.
As for the Sun service contract, yeah, we have software and hardware support, but if there was a major problem in this large city, Sun's support crews would be swamped.
Like I say, it's cost-benefit. The likelihood of something like a line spike over the power line or telecomm link getting through the conditioner/UPS and/or the relatively cheap telecomm hardware and frying the Starfire and/or its storage array is tiny. But the cost of dealing with such damage is HUGE, and the expected Web traffic for our planned downtime is so small that the benefits of taking the small risk are so much less than the costs of the worst-case-scenario damage, that it's a reasonable decision to shut down.
Think about the whole PHB anti-Free Software argument "who can we sue?". In this case, we could sue the conditioner / UPS vendor if a monster power spike made it through the UPS and toasted our system. But we're being more realistic: the conditions under which we'd be able to sue for any relief are so bad that it's better to take prudent measures to avoid the finger-pointing, lawyer-requiring post-disaster scenario.
Personally, I think we ought to be running lots of cheap servers behind LocalDirectors (or similar) instead of using one big Starfire box, so we could do something like take a couple boxes offline, but keep the site up, and replace any damaged hardware quickly, easily, and cheaply. Alas, with a Starfire downtime may be rare, but it's very expensive when/if it happens.
West Virginia's educational system relies on a computer network called wvnet. When my sister tried to check her mail on West Virginia U's pop account, no dice. It appears wvnet has taken down all sites (universities, colleges) but their main portal. I'm not sure if this caution is so prudent. Unless all the techies stuck at work want the bandwidth for themselves to play massive quake areans...
---
"if there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
How did you teach yourself Perl without reading the documentation? Or at least, how did you learn about localtime without reading the documentation?
Clueless.
Idiots.
Whenever a site clims to be down I trie all sorts of URLs. index2.htm[l] index-old.htm[l] welcome.htm[l] help/ images/ main/ english/ etc. Just keep porbing until you hit on something. Is this "cracking"? Hardly.
Grr...If you didn't prepare for y2k by checking your code, and that of your vendors, then have the guts to leave it up and watch what happens! Putting your head in the sand, then saying "just in case, we're taking our site down..." is worthless, and does nothing to inspire consumer confidence.
Now, if you _did_ prepare, then you should KNOW that you're fine, and again...there is no reason to take your site down.
Personally, the malfunctions that we're going to see are going to be few and far between, and probably 90+% of them are not going to show up on the roll over anyways!
People are sad. I'm glad I'm only going to see one of these stupid things.
-Buffy
You wanna quote more expensive cars? How's this (from a C&D road test):
SUBARU IMPREZA 22B STi
Vehicle type: front-engine, 4-wheel-drive,
5-passenger, 2-door sedan
Price as tested (Japan): $41,600
Engine type: turbocharged and intercooled DOHC
16-valve flat-4, aluminum block and heads,
Subaru engine-control
system with port fuel injection
Displacement..........135 cu in, 2212cc
Power (C/D est)..........300 bhp @ 6300 rpm
Torque (SAE net)..........267 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm
Transmission..........5-speed manual
Wheelbase..........99.2 in
Length..........171.9 in
Curb weight..........2857 lb
Zero to 60 mph..........4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph..........13.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph..........28.2 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph..........6.3 sec
Standing 1/4-mile..........13.5 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (drag limited)..........144 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph..........164 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad..........0.96 g
.
Hi guys!
Visit:
http://go.to/y2kmistakes
To see screenshots of websites affected by Y2K.
PLS send screenshots or URLs to:
y2kmistakes@mail.com
Thanx!
While I am not a Sub. hater, and am not a loyal Audi owner, I tend to think you are way off base claiming "eat for lunch". One is four door, one is two door. There's a price difference. Not leather in onw, leather in the other; and ofcourse Coilovers, chips, and brake upgrades make them about equal for the same upgrade cost. From Edmunds.com new car guide. Keep in mind, I am not bashing/hailing either of these; just being objective.
Impreza Coupe 2.5 RS 2-Dr 5-Speed
Invoice = $17,686
Performance Data
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 8.2 sec.
Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 128 ft.
Roadholding Index: 0.80
Base Number of Cylinders: 4
Base Engine Size: 2.5 liters
Horsepower: 165 hp @ 5600 rpm
Torque: 166 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm
A4 Sedan 1.8T 4-Dr 5-Speed
Invoice = $21,356
Performance Data
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 8.0 sec.
Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 139 ft.
Roadholding Index: 0.79
Base Number of Cylinders: 4
Base Engine Size: 1.8 liters
Horsepower: 150 hp @ 5700 rpm
Torque: 155 ft-lbs. @ 1750 rpm
Ah -- if it's identical to C's, then I understand why it would cause such a ruckus to change it. I agree that it would cause more mess than benefit. Still makes me wonder why it wasn't 4-digit year from the start. ;)
Thanks!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
Yeah, I've been affected by this stuff too. My school (www.mc.maricopa.edu) decided to shut down THE ENTIRE NETWORK from Noon (our time) today until Jan 2. Huh?
No e-mail, no Netscape roaming access, no web pages, no FTP, no Telnet.
Do they really want me to get drunk and party? Cuz that's the only thing left. =)
Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".
Pablo Nevares, "the freshmaker".
It initiates a fast stealth scan against the whitehouse.
duh!
How did you teach yourself Perl without reading the documentation?
By reading lots of FAQ's, tutorials, etc on multitudes of webpages... and reading other people's code. It was certainly a messy way to go about it, I'll give you that!
I wouldn't encourage anybody else to learn it the way I did. Certainly my investments in Perl books have been completely worth it!
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
and more data... (from other post) Impreza Coupe 2.5 RS 2-Dr 5-Speed Invoice = $17,686 Performance Data Acceleration (0-60 mph): 8.2 sec. Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 128 ft. Roadholding Index: 0.80 Base Number of Cylinders: 4 Base Engine Size: 2.5 liters Horsepower: 165 hp @ 5600 rpm Torque: 166 ft-lbs. @ 4000 rpm S4-Same specs as A4 2.8T, however, add a biturbo (that's 2 turbos) 250 bhp engine with about the same ft-lbs of torque, knock a few seconds off the 0-60 time and add quattro standard. (therego matching the 4wd of the sub) M3-Dream on, 250 bhp, handling superior to every car i've driven, and from its reviews, most ever car but another german, porsche. OK, no 4wd, and the impending nuclear winter impending with the *y2k crisis* it may not be the best. But the audi will still clean up, reguardless of subaru leaving their site up while audi erred on the side of caution and did not.
"if there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
Why should special accomidations be made for you, when most Windows-only software, hardware, file formats, and protocols are designed to make life as difficult as possible for non-Windows users?
and why should computer game designers make special accomodations for the relatively small community of linux users?
you make the linux community look bad by saying that kind of thing.
Subaru Impreza RS toasting an A4? Laughable. The build quality differences alone make an Audi customer != a Subaru customer.
For starters, they aren't even in the same class. The Audi, at best, is a competitor with the Legacy.
With the 1.8T, the A4 is barely behind the 2.5 in the RS. With the 2.8 (what most quattro drivers choose), all the Impreza driver will see is taillights. And the A4 1.8T is only $2500 more, btw.
Haven't driven that model of subaru, but i have an A4 1.8t and other subaru's. All i can say is build/ride quality. There's a reason for paying higher prices, it's not always performance oriented. In this price range, it wouldn't even be a 1.8, it'd be the S4 with a 250bhp biturbo 2.8l v-6. Still not as fast as the one you quoted above, but...
1: (opinion, so don't scream) the audi is styled classier. it flows better. it's also what might be called a sleeper. you wouldn't expect it to have a twin turbo engine...but...
2: saftey. i remember that sub mention in c&d. the audi has head and side airbags. sub doesn't. (of course it is made to rally race, but i hate racing harnesses when i'm dressed for a night out)
3: that's a special subaru. the S4 isn't. audi dealers have them in stock.
All opinion of course. Some like German, some like Japan. I prefer the bavarian. Now, back to preparing for doomsday, EST. Let's save the car talk for a non-tech news/forum site.
"if there is any doubt, there is no doubt."
Trying to store the date as a byte doesn't save memory.
If you use the word alignment option in your compiler, it still takes up 2 or 4 bytes depending on the definition of a word.
If you don't use alignment, you pay a severe penalty in accessing variables.
Do they not realize that their security problems will be the same during Jan. 1 as any other time! Do backdoors and exploits magically show up on Jan. 1 2000? wow thats news to me if they do!
The sound of the new 'millenium' [sic] being worng in...
;-)
It is because the Y2K bug was only invoked in the U.S. versions of Software... You may be laughing now, but watch come 12:00 EST as our wonderful plan comes together to overthrow the imperialist U.S. :)
*side note: So that means that all my luser/customers should be safe, I mean they DO buy all the cheapest hardware/software at the trade shows, and don't they all have those !Not for Sale in the U.S.! and !Educational Purposes Only! Stickers on them???*
Remember folks this is but a lame attempt at humour!!! ok REALLY Lame attempt
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
We turned off an application or two for 24 hours on our website. I guess they/we didn't want any change orders created while it was 2000 in some parts of the world and 1999 in others.
That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
... at least in some environments. Not having coolant to pump around encourages GOOD heat dissipation design rather than designing a furnace and figuring out how to cool it to tolerable levels later. CPU makers have descended into a similar bad design mode. Stop assuming fans will be needed as an axiom.
So does that mean that you're running an insecure site?
Deleted
Y2K is nearly here! That means we can finally stop guessing about what Y2K is going to do to the world's computers - and get on with our lives. As a precautionary measure, AllAdvantage.com is going to disconnect its servers from the Internet and watch the millennial date change from the sidelines.
We will be disconnected from 23:59 PST (GMT -0800) on December 30 through 12:00 PST (GMT -0800) on January 1.
You will be UNABLE TO ACCRUE PAID SURFING TIME DURING THIS 36-HOUR PERIOD.
We value your privacy and the security of your data, and this temporary suspension of service is designed to protect our community from any unanticipated effects from the date changeover.
I don't think any comments are needed from my end...
--
From Audi's site:
Sorry, we have temporarily disabled this module.
Clearly, they're not telling the truth. If they HAD disabled that module, we wouldn't be getting a web page saying "Sorry, we have temporarily disabled this module.".
No shit... Its just the point that these sites are adding hype to y2k bull.
You'd think that the localtime function could be rewritten to simply return the full year in a 4-digit format.
No good. This would cause Y10K bugs 8000 years from today.
I thought it simply returned a 2-digit value for the year. At least I had it set up to append '20' to the year once it rolled over to '00'... guess I'll have some code to fix Monday morning.
I do, however, enjoy the fact that "there have been no major events", oh, except for two reported false alarms in Japanese power stations. I'm sorry, but a false alarm in a power station does just fall into my "major" category - there doesn't have to be a mushroom cloud for it to be of concern.
What I am particularly concerned about is the immediate "The geeks were wrong and we wasted all that money" attitude that's been expressed on the TV things I've been watching. Um, people, there was a problem. If it doesn't manifest itself that's because we fixed it, not because it went away by itself. But I'm preaching to the converted here.
The only thing that could damage your site as badly as you fear it would be a major nuclear catastrophe. And in that case, I believe that you and your PHBs will have other worries than your fuckin' website.
If you have a processor that needs to have bytes aligned on a 4 bytes boundary, then you probably have lots of memory to spare. Hint: the C library dates back from a few years ago. At that time, there was no such need for alignment ... and much less memory available.
because as years from 1900, it can be a byte up till 2155 or thereabouts and save memory (so theres a y2.155k problem due to ppl saving memory, but i doubt it couldn't be changed to a (small) int in another century or so, with no adverse effects, if its still a byte)
Need a Catering Connection
I'm assuming (having not seen the problem in question), that like a number of site I've seen today, people have really not been paying attention when they've been writing their perl code.
;)
Specifically, and as Tom Christiansen states in his Y2k essay, the value for the year returned by the time functions is _NOT_ a two digit year... it merely _USED_ to be the case.... If you try to calcluate the year by "19".$year, you're going to be in trouble, but 1900+$year is entirely fine.
In keeping with the whole Y2k issue in general... fixing the base behaviour of the system (if necessary) is easy... fixing the behaviour of the cluefully-challenged coder, or (worse still) the end user, is a far tougher job.
Personally... as somebody who's just survived the whole roll-ever thing with nothing worse than a feeling that he shouldn't have hit the scotch _QUITE_ so hard, and a crashed MS Exchange server that he'll fix tomorrow, I'd just like to say that I feel pretty damned good about the whole damned thing. Now... if only I'd have been on paid overtime for posting comments at >5am the following day
-- Jules
See, while our major telecommunications giant stood up and said that ther would be no Y2k problems, our power utility only ever went as far as to say "the disruption should be minimal". Since the quality of the power in our building is crappy at the best of times (the UPS for one server trips every morning when the air conditioning is switched on) we decided that we should turn off and un-plug everything we cared about.
Anyway, it's just a moderately sized local real estate agent - it's not like the computer systems will be needed until Tuesday anyway. Better safe than trying to source parts in January.
Me, That AC from your parent comment.. .Who else?
Those stupids blocked ICMP packets, including ping and MTU discovery. I'm guessing it was Al Gore's fault.
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Here's one example of this, where someone posted a message to a mailing list claiming that Y2K errors in his Perl scripts are due to a "bug" in Perl.
what a dumbass cto/company. you've got a multi-million dollar machine sitting there and you don't have your own genny? assuming that you do, which you must unless you are really, really stupid, you must realize that you could just pull the plug yourself, right? Jeez. give me a fucking break.
Several of our clients/vendors likes the idea and decided they would do the same. Problem is, they don't run linux firewalls/servers... they are all MS shops. They could not find a way to just remove the attachments. They had to either deny all email or let everything through. I have no experience with MS exchange so I don't know if it's a limitation of the software or of the admins... regardless... I still find it pretty funny.
It would be on CNN. Nukes traveled more than 500 km would be reported. Any warheads not travelling that far have not been reported. I.E. the scud missles that were actually launched to test radar.
(`._(`._( , , . JimmyPop[nL] . , , )_.)_.)
The page is more than likely a bad Perl program. The localtime function (what most people use to get the date), returns a list with the hour, minute, day, month, etc. It returns the year as the number of years since 1900, hence in 1999 it would have returned 99 and now it would 100.
Some Perl programmers (use the last part loosely), have been concatingating "19" to the front of the year instead of adding 1900. I wonder if Perl will get a bad wrap as these programs start to break and die. I hope not; I Perl.
SlashSig Karma: Excellent (mostly affected by moderatio
What was that about script kiddies now? =)
audi is owned by VW and vw.com is also down!!
Shutting down the siteis the Y2K problem.
If everyone pulls off their site, the internet may be less used, which means /. will load several times faster.
I laughed my ass off. I think the page (complete with "NEWS FLASH" in big red letters) was intended as a joke.
Hands in my pocket
http://www.rolls-royceandbentley.co.uk/
The web guys at rools must have some brains -they all run netscape enterprise 3.6
So was all this Y2K-panic-making really necessary? Everything works - no extra checks were necessary.
ms
If you want to compare specialty cars, there are two Audis which spring to mind:
- RS4: Think Subaru Legacy with 380hp.
- Sport Quattro: This was Audi's 22B 16 years ago. BTW, Audi started the 4WD turbo rally car phenomenon 20 years ago.
Note: Audi's quoted performance figures have historically been pessimistic. Brochures for the S4, for example, list 0-60 as 6.5(!!) and 5.9 seconds. C/D tests reveal an actual time of 5.5. No non-Audi data is known about the RS4 yet, but the Sport Quattro is said to do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds (from "The Audi Quattro Book" ISBN 185960403X).Allright, this is not /. material, but, from someone who races (ok, I race Audis), I can tell you bar none, without mods the Audi's will eat up the rice burning Subies. To add to it, the Audi's have a true AWD system, not a POS viscous coupled devices which spins the slipping wheels (ok, subaru's awd system ONLY available in the automatic models is computer controlled as is quite good). BTW, my '89, 140k mile I-5 20V Audi chews up the latest subarus in any weather, but, in the fun stuff let's them know they were built by a xenophobic island society.
Thanks Bell Atlantic!!!!