I'm aware of the simplistic tone of my post and actually came back to clarify asap. But in the meantime you've explained your position better so that's a plus.
Your point about leaving the "victim job" and going on to success with your own business is actually about the best possible outcome of what I suggest they do. Unless, of course, your business also happens to thrive on the exploitation of others.
My point is not that they shouldn't have whatever job they choose and can do. My point is that it is not consumers' responsibility to subsidize their exploitation just because it's "better than nothing". I was initially under the impression that you wanted something better for these folks than exploitation but apparently that wasn't the case. My point was simply that "nothing" was not their only alternative. And if they're "happy" in the shit job then I'm sure they can find another one when the gold-farms go out of business. No problem.
Now then as for "You must be one of those 'college know it all' hippies." Well... I'll try to be more of a grown-up than the internet usually allows, and just point out that that doesn't help your argument.
I'd reckon they'd be better off not working a menial job that contributes nothing to themselves or society in general except to perpetuate a system of victimization. It's true they could starve but at least then they wouldn't be making the problem worse. One would hope instead that they'd do something productive and help change the system.
And if your response is "yeah right, they can't change the system" then, well, what's the point of not starving?
The guys who did the art direction for the movies have long been (arguably) the quintessential illustrators for Tolkien works in general. So those visual stylings predate the movies in Tolkien history.
Of course that just means their artwork in general was ripped off instead of "the movies";-} But it is to be expected since their work is somewhat definitive of Tolkien.
In the book The Return of the King, which is part of Turbine's license, is the start of the 4th Age. That's the time of prosperity under the rule of King Elessar (Aragorn/Strider) after Frodo destroys the ring and all that (oops, spoilers). Some basic points are stated about what happens after that but nothing too specific.
Turbine can keep the game going indefinitely after the ring is destroyed and the story proper is completed. They'll still have a huge world to expand the game into and be able to make up more story almost as they see fit and still fit just fine within the established lore.
Very similar in mechanics, but different in semantics. Maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn't. But if it doesn't then I would reckon that every RPG NPC is just a quest-pez-dispenser to you.
This is OT but just FYI... Gandalf literally was deific. He was a Maia, sort of on par with greek demigods (i.e. not a human and not something a human could become).
Luckily for you, then, "magic" or rather the lack thereof is lore appropriate in game.
The only class that does anything that LOOKS like magic is the Lore-master. And actually, all of their skills have "scientific" explanations. IE he's not throwing a fireball, he's chucking some sort of burning chemical and embers on the enemy.
The compromises made to the Tolkien lore in order to make a playable game are masterfully subtle, IMO.
The traditional "nuker" role usually held by mages in other mmo's is transfered to Hunters in LotRO. They're the glass cannons of ME;-}
Balderdash!
That last asteroid that hit killed, as you pointed out, THE DINOSAURS. Who took over for them? MAMMALS.
I fear no asteroid! My thick wooly coat, high volume-to-surface-area ratio, and ability to bear and nurse live young will win the day! Huzzah!
I totally agree with you on that, Lion. However 99% of arguments I ever hear in this "debate" completely disregard what you're saying. Every time I hear "It's a FACT" it just about makes me sick because the "debate" has just become zealots fighting zealots.
What?!!? We don't have to understand evolution, global warming, and other science. IT'S A FACT
How do we know it's a fact? Because an authority figure told us so!
Just look at all this circumstantial evidence that PROVES it!
I love Scott Adams's "God's Debris". It points out quite nicely that in the distant future that alien archaeologists could view the fossils of our cooking utensils and clearly see evolution! No one acknowledges that while dinosaur fossils are consistent with evolution by Darwinian Natural Selection they do not at all PROVE it.
Unless, of course, you believe that they do.;-}/endrant
I can't believe you'd post something like that as an Anynomous Coward. How depressingly hypocritical. What you said is a little Durden-esque but largely absolutely true.
I quit EQ2 when I realized I was getting a buzz not off of the fun gameplay, the fun community, and the fun world to explore, but rather from the Virtual Accomplishements that got dispensed to me at regular intervals like a fish biscuit for the clever caged bear.
I'll go back to the genuinely fun game once I am no longer deficient in REAL accomplishments.;-}
I think it's definately safe to say that while there would be a market for MMORPGS if they didn't tap into people's psychological deficiencies for enjoyment, they definately are built around doing just that. So many people play it like work or out of a sense of obligation or investment long after the fun has been tapped out. Just check out the forums for ANY MMO.;-}
C0rinthian... That is the only sensible position to take in the "science vs. religion" battle. The position that the "science vs. religion" battle is bullshit! And those fighting it either don't know what they're fighting for or are lying about what they're fighting for.
SoaP is a bad example of how viral marketing may or may not help a product, because SoaP's internet hype was a SEPARATE product. Most folks (well this folk, at least) enjoyed the tribute to camp but knew damn well they wouldn't enjoy the movie!
Marketing an actual product like a PSP virally is completely different because the hype hasn't become self-aware and its own living breathing thing.
Aussie, your impression of the Matrix Online sounds like how it was early on. It has been much improved since then. It is a very social game and the players are closer to the story than ever with regular interractions from major story characters and special liason characters.
Unfortunatley I can't link you directly since I'm at work (page blocked;-} can't go snag the url for ya) but if you go to www.thematrixonline.com and make your way over to the Live Events forum you should find some neat things, I believe.
The game does awkwardly feature some of the standard MMO troped, but beings as it is the matrix, afterall, combat is going to be a prominent part.;-} The focus is much much more on the style, the social structures, and the story.
That does look very promising. Equal parts simplicity and excitement is what my man Sonic is all about. For the most part I think the original Dreamcast 3D Sonic Adventure did a pretty damn good job. Sonic 2 is pretty much still the pinacle of the series tho.:P
Maybe this return to simplicity of gameplay (as I understand it you basically just use the Wii-mote like a steering wheel, ya?) with punched up adrenaline environments is what's needed. All the platforming they've had Sonic on is the wrong idea. Sonic is supposed to be too cool to waste his time and inertia hopping ON the platforms.;-} If this game lets you just GO already then it's doing good!
That's happening all across the nation, Zontar, not just here. It's why the pundits have such vitality these days and it's the driving force behind the political process. People being pissed off and excited first and foremost, and then identifying/solving problems a diiiiiiiistant second.
The cancer of our society is summed up wonderfully in Chuck Palahniuk's Lullaby, "Big Brother isn't watching, he's singing and dancing..."
Taking away our Freedoms is wayyy down the chain. We've been surrendering out REASON and AWARENESS first for a long time now.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm aware of the simplistic tone of my post and actually came back to clarify asap. But in the meantime you've explained your position better so that's a plus.
Your point about leaving the "victim job" and going on to success with your own business is actually about the best possible outcome of what I suggest they do. Unless, of course, your business also happens to thrive on the exploitation of others.
My point is not that they shouldn't have whatever job they choose and can do. My point is that it is not consumers' responsibility to subsidize their exploitation just because it's "better than nothing". I was initially under the impression that you wanted something better for these folks than exploitation but apparently that wasn't the case. My point was simply that "nothing" was not their only alternative. And if they're "happy" in the shit job then I'm sure they can find another one when the gold-farms go out of business. No problem.
Now then as for "You must be one of those 'college know it all' hippies." Well... I'll try to be more of a grown-up than the internet usually allows, and just point out that that doesn't help your argument.
I'd reckon they'd be better off not working a menial job that contributes nothing to themselves or society in general except to perpetuate a system of victimization. It's true they could starve but at least then they wouldn't be making the problem worse. One would hope instead that they'd do something productive and help change the system.
And if your response is "yeah right, they can't change the system" then, well, what's the point of not starving?
Off topic, I know, but the question was asked.
Actually...
;-} But it is to be expected since their work is somewhat definitive of Tolkien.
The guys who did the art direction for the movies have long been (arguably) the quintessential illustrators for Tolkien works in general. So those visual stylings predate the movies in Tolkien history.
Of course that just means their artwork in general was ripped off instead of "the movies"
!@#$!@#$! html horseshit... :\
:P
Pretend those are hearts instead of threes. ffs.
You can see it that way if you want, as I said in my post and I will /shrug and go merrily on my way.
:D
The only further I have to add is 3 3 3 Ladytron
Turns out that lots of people on page 2 mention this. My bad :D
I'm surprised no one mentioned this...
In the book The Return of the King, which is part of Turbine's license, is the start of the 4th Age. That's the time of prosperity under the rule of King Elessar (Aragorn/Strider) after Frodo destroys the ring and all that (oops, spoilers). Some basic points are stated about what happens after that but nothing too specific.
Turbine can keep the game going indefinitely after the ring is destroyed and the story proper is completed. They'll still have a huge world to expand the game into and be able to make up more story almost as they see fit and still fit just fine within the established lore.
Very similar in mechanics, but different in semantics. Maybe that matters to you, maybe it doesn't. But if it doesn't then I would reckon that every RPG NPC is just a quest-pez-dispenser to you.
This is OT but just FYI... Gandalf literally was deific. He was a Maia, sort of on par with greek demigods (i.e. not a human and not something a human could become).
;-}
So your impressions were correct
That's incorrect (unless I misunderstand you). If you buy the North American client you can play on the North American servers. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=31890
Luckily for you, then, "magic" or rather the lack thereof is lore appropriate in game. The only class that does anything that LOOKS like magic is the Lore-master. And actually, all of their skills have "scientific" explanations. IE he's not throwing a fireball, he's chucking some sort of burning chemical and embers on the enemy. The compromises made to the Tolkien lore in order to make a playable game are masterfully subtle, IMO. The traditional "nuker" role usually held by mages in other mmo's is transfered to Hunters in LotRO. They're the glass cannons of ME ;-}
This is Blasphemy!
This is Madness!
Balderdash! That last asteroid that hit killed, as you pointed out, THE DINOSAURS. Who took over for them? MAMMALS. I fear no asteroid! My thick wooly coat, high volume-to-surface-area ratio, and ability to bear and nurse live young will win the day! Huzzah!
I totally agree with you on that, Lion. However 99% of arguments I ever hear in this "debate" completely disregard what you're saying. Every time I hear "It's a FACT" it just about makes me sick because the "debate" has just become zealots fighting zealots.
Yes, that's very insightful. Because your psyche represents the whole human race!
What?!!? We don't have to understand evolution, global warming, and other science. IT'S A FACT
;-} /endrant
How do we know it's a fact? Because an authority figure told us so!
Just look at all this circumstantial evidence that PROVES it!
I love Scott Adams's "God's Debris". It points out quite nicely that in the distant future that alien archaeologists could view the fossils of our cooking utensils and clearly see evolution! No one acknowledges that while dinosaur fossils are consistent with evolution by Darwinian Natural Selection they do not at all PROVE it.
Unless, of course, you believe that they do.
I can't believe you'd post something like that as an Anynomous Coward. How depressingly hypocritical. What you said is a little Durden-esque but largely absolutely true.
I quit EQ2 when I realized I was getting a buzz not off of the fun gameplay, the fun community, and the fun world to explore, but rather from the Virtual Accomplishements that got dispensed to me at regular intervals like a fish biscuit for the clever caged bear.
;-}
;-}
I'll go back to the genuinely fun game once I am no longer deficient in REAL accomplishments.
I think it's definately safe to say that while there would be a market for MMORPGS if they didn't tap into people's psychological deficiencies for enjoyment, they definately are built around doing just that. So many people play it like work or out of a sense of obligation or investment long after the fun has been tapped out. Just check out the forums for ANY MMO.
But then it's Game Over man... Game over!
C0rinthian... That is the only sensible position to take in the "science vs. religion" battle. The position that the "science vs. religion" battle is bullshit! And those fighting it either don't know what they're fighting for or are lying about what they're fighting for.
Please mod parent up Insightful!
SoaP is a bad example of how viral marketing may or may not help a product, because SoaP's internet hype was a SEPARATE product. Most folks (well this folk, at least) enjoyed the tribute to camp but knew damn well they wouldn't enjoy the movie!
Marketing an actual product like a PSP virally is completely different because the hype hasn't become self-aware and its own living breathing thing.
Aussie, your impression of the Matrix Online sounds like how it was early on. It has been much improved since then. It is a very social game and the players are closer to the story than ever with regular interractions from major story characters and special liason characters.
;-} can't go snag the url for ya) but if you go to www.thematrixonline.com and make your way over to the Live Events forum you should find some neat things, I believe.
;-} The focus is much much more on the style, the social structures, and the story.
Unfortunatley I can't link you directly since I'm at work (page blocked
The game does awkwardly feature some of the standard MMO troped, but beings as it is the matrix, afterall, combat is going to be a prominent part.
That does look very promising. Equal parts simplicity and excitement is what my man Sonic is all about. For the most part I think the original Dreamcast 3D Sonic Adventure did a pretty damn good job. Sonic 2 is pretty much still the pinacle of the series tho. :P
Maybe this return to simplicity of gameplay (as I understand it you basically just use the Wii-mote like a steering wheel, ya?) with punched up adrenaline environments is what's needed. All the platforming they've had Sonic on is the wrong idea. Sonic is supposed to be too cool to waste his time and inertia hopping ON the platforms. ;-} If this game lets you just GO already then it's doing good!
The Hackers hate Vista users Freedoms!
That's happening all across the nation, Zontar, not just here. It's why the pundits have such vitality these days and it's the driving force behind the political process. People being pissed off and excited first and foremost, and then identifying/solving problems a diiiiiiiistant second. The cancer of our society is summed up wonderfully in Chuck Palahniuk's Lullaby, "Big Brother isn't watching, he's singing and dancing..." Taking away our Freedoms is wayyy down the chain. We've been surrendering out REASON and AWARENESS first for a long time now.