This sort of thing is being funded under the next-generation space reconnaissance satellite programs for the follow-on programs for the KH-11/12 and Lacrosse birds as well as the sats used to detect IR plumes of rockets and nuclear detonations.
I saw it in Janes a while back, no time to find sources right now, working on papers for Grad School.
India doesn't have the heavy-lift rocket capability right now and it is unlikely they will develop it on thier own within 13 years. Of course they could contract out to the Russians but that doesn't really fufill the nationalistic drive to do it yourself.
Not to mention develop the skillsets and the hardware to land and return.
Besides that, Indian aerospace programs have had a really hard time keeping up with thier schedules, for example the HAL Tejas has taken much longer to develop that planned for.
Actually, most airports in the United States are not Federal property. I can't think of any public airports in the United States which are owned by the Federal Government.
Our International Airport here in Portland Oregon is owned by the Port of Portland. Here are some of the big ones here in the US and thier owner O'Hare - Chicago City Department of Aviation JFK - Port Authority of New York and New Jersey Denver - DEN - City & County of Denver Department of Aviation Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport - Department of Aviation of the City of Atlanta Washington Dulles International Airport - Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA) LAX - Los Angeles World Airports Miami International Airport - Miami-Dade County Aviation Department
It was flying around WoW General Channel a few hours ago, when it got linked on Drudge. Then it filtered down into Guild channels, I logged for the night when the 5th rotation of explanations started for people just logging into the Guild.
Actually, the fanatical pro-lifers have been very good about using the Internet to organize and target folks.
Type "pro-life website" for a Google search once, there are tons of websites out there. Also search for "pro-life website target" and you will find many references to sites being used to organize and target organizations and individuals by the Pro-Life movement.
Actually Israel's nuclear delivery systems are traditionally thought to be free-fall gravity bombs and SRBM/IRBMs based off the Jericho series of missiles. The AGM-142 series "Popeye" missile is also thought to be nuclear capable, that is what the new submarine based cruise missile is based on.
"'Fancy' usually amounts to an Olive Garden or some other such chain restaurant,"
I think you are confusing fancy with family here. If they will serve you if you aren't wearing slacks, a jacket and a tie, it's not a fancy restaurant. Hell casual fancy don't require the jacket and tie anymore, but pants and a decent shirt are required, I can get service in Olive Garden wearing long shorts, it's much more of a family chain than a fancy chain.
Re:Wow, what a great comparison of 70s-80s vs now
on
Gadgets, Then & Now
·
· Score: 1
From 1996 - "Cancer death rates have dropped three percent since 1990, that's 15,000 fewer Americans succumbing to the disease every year."
"Since about 1900, the American people have regularly been required to report causes of death, and we have fairly accurate information dating back that far. This is reported through the National Center for Health Statistics. And actually, Dr. Phil Cole, from the University of Alabama, was the first one to identify looking at information through 1994/95 and adding up all the causes of cancer death. And he was the first to identify this trend from the total death cases, dating back to 1990 as a peak year, so '91, '92, '93, '94, and now '95, the death rate has gone down, and what's even more encouraging is in '95, the decrease was almost 2 percent. So depending on how you calculate it, the rate of decrease in deaths is actually accelerating, very good news, indeed."
Re:Wow, what a great comparison of 70s-80s vs now
on
Gadgets, Then & Now
·
· Score: 2, Informative
"Tha cancer cure rate hasn't changed since the 60s. We can detect it earlier. Actually that's also true if you compare it to 1902."
Incorrect, cancer cure and survival rates have gotten better since the 1960s.
Of course though secret prisons/cell-blocks/wings for intelligence work have been used for about as long as there have been Nation-States and Intelligence operations, so what the CIA is doing isn't anything really new except for the fact that they shuffle people around in other countries.
When one operates as a spy or irregular military operative traditionally they don't have near the same rights or protections as a uniformed military or diplomatic operative. But now things are different in terms of the media and the general public's mind as to how these people are treated while the actual treatment of said operatives continues on as it has in times of war for hundreds of years.
On the other hand much could and likely will survive. We have dinosaur's footprints, eggs, skin and poo which has survived. We have the banks of an ancient river at Dinosaur National Monument and we have the Burgess Shales in Canada. We have the gigatons of Banded Iron Formations world wide as evidence of bacteria which has survived hundreds of millions if not billions of years. Steel, concrete, titanium and aluminum constructs will survive for hundreds of millions of years in some way, shape or form.
Likely many machine parts, plastics, and larger artifacts will survive. The Pyramids, Statute of Liberty and Golden Gate are bad examples. The Pyramids are made of a softer stone, and the Statue of Liberty and Golden Gate are in corrosive environments. How about the granite in buildings, the great concrete dams of the world, titanium and steel blades of gas turbines, biomedical implants will all be here, baring the Sun going nova ahead of time.
I was undergoing an outpatient operation on the scrotal area in 1999. I was given local, they waited till we all thought it was numb, then they opened me up...
They used an electrical cauterizer to keep the bleeding down...it sounded like the lightning gun in Q3A and felt like what you can imagine electricity against the scrotal area feels like.
I said, "Doctor, I can feel that." He zapped me and said, "you felt that?"
I never was able to play Q3A again because of that lightning gun sound.
A Spinal Tap is pretty bad, migraines since my stroke are bad, but the cauterizer was worse.
Tom Clancy talked about using cosmic radiation emissions/noise as a one time pad in Cardinal of the Kremlin in 1988. I don't remember what exactly the source was, as it's been a long time since I read it. I do know there was a subplot about this system, which would record the noise to CDs and there was another random hardware bit vs. a math based system from NSA, the NSA plan was approved and the Soviets broke it and were reading the NSA/State's "mail".
It is not called the Global War on Islamist Terror because of political niceties and because we need bases in nations with strong Islamic populations (the 'Stans, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia (not anymore though), Jordan, and North Africa).
The Second World War was a war on fascism, it was ended although some fascist states continued to exsist (Spain, Argentina).
The Korean War ended in 1953 although technically the state of war still exists between the United States, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the People's Republic of China and the United Nations states who sent forces to Korea.
A war can be ended even though the threat still exists. The threat will be marginalized and the various aspects of the war will spin down and fade into the background.
Sure, why can't it be won? The conflict against Fascism/Nazism was won and while places like Spain held out, it largely went away. Imperial Japan's cult of Militarism was defeated.
Stalinist Communism was rolled back in Europe, the Americas, Africa and Asia for the most part.
Islamist Terrorism can be defeated or marginalized too.
The whole America=Rome thing has been done to death, so has the Sports=Circus/Arena thing.
Lets look at that. In Rome and other urban centers during the late Republic and Empire the Circus and Colosseum were diversions that the public demanded. Holidays were declared, taxes not gathered and most of the public didn't work, they went to the Circus and the Colosseum for games. If there weren't games or even enough games there was civil unrest of the sort that'd make the Rodney King riots look like a game.
Now in the modern western world the games are a diversion for sure, but they are a profit making venture not for the the government or to control the rage of the mob but purely entertainment. The analogy of modern games to Roman games is shown to be false when there are strikes and professional sporting seasons don't happen (MLB, NBA, NHL in the last 15 years for example) and there is no civil unrest. Had three to six months of no games occured in Rome or Constantinople there'd likely not be any ruins to visit today as the mob would have destroyed it all.
Now then if we look at restrictions put on people in the United States, United Kingdom, or Canada during the American Civil War, First and Second World Wars and compare those restrictions to what is happening during this Global War on Terror, you'll see that the reaction now is much less invasive than it was during those conflicts.
Well, except of course for the low level raids run by F-111s, A-10s, AV-8B Harriers in addition to the strafing runs carried out by F-16, F-15, F-18, F-15 and F-14s over the years.
Anyway, take a look at what the Armada Argentina Super Etendards and the Fuerza Aérea Argentina MIRAGE III EA and A-4s did to the Royal Navy. 4 warships sunk and 12 damaged on the Royal Navy side, all by surface strikes by the Armada Argentina and Fuerza Aérea Argentina by low level, long range attacks conducted without fighter cover.
As for the Royal Air Force's low level capabilites, as soon as Tornado is retired the RAF won't have any as Typhoon isn't a low level strike platform.
If there were less people on board, the fires would have gone out of control. The Forrestal is the most important one to look at. Fire on the deck, fire teams sent in, munitions explode, killing most of the firefighters and damaging the hoses. Aviation fuel drips down into the interior of the ship through holes in the deck from the munitions cooking off. To stop the fires on the deck, human wave attacks were required.
Reducing the crew reduces casualties and it reduces redundant crew members, which in a war or accident are needed when there are casualties.
If the Forrestal had a smaller crew and all the firefighters are out of commission, what is going to put out the fire? A computer?
http://navysite.de/cvn/cv59.htm#acc "On July 29, 1967 the USS FORRESTAL was operating on Yankee Station off the coast of North Vietnam conducting combat operations. This was the fifth such day of operations and at 10:52am the crew was starting the second launch cycle of the day, when suddenly a Zuni rocket accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom into a parked and armed A-4 Skyhawk. The accidental launch and subsequent impact caused the belly fuel tank and a 1,000 pound bomb on the Skyhawk to fall off, the tank broke open spilling JP5 (jet fuel) onto the flight deck and ignited a fire. Within a minute and a half the bomb was the first to cook-off and explode, this caused a massive chain reaction of explosions that engulfed half the airwings aircraft, and blew huge holes in the steel flight deck. Fed by fuel and bombs from other aircraft that were armed and ready for the coming strike, the fire spread quickly, many pilots and support personnel were trapped and burned alive. Fuel and bombs spilled into the holes in the flight deck igniting fires on decks further into the bowels of the ship. Berthing spaces immediately below the flight deck became death traps for fifty men, while other crewmen were blown overboard by the explosion. Nearby ships hastened to the FORRESTAL's aid. The ORISKANY (CV 34), herself a victim of a tragic fire in October 1966, stood by to offer fire-fighting and medical aid to the larger carrier. Nearby escort vessels sprayed water on the burning FORRESTAL and within an hour the fire on the flight deck was under control. The crew heroically fought the fire and carried armed bombs to the side of the ship to throw them overboard for 13 hours. Secondary fires below deck took another 12 hours to contain."
"Once the fires were under control, the extent of the devastation was apparent. Most tragic was the loss to the crew, 134 had lost their lives, while an additional 64 were injured, this was and still remains the single worst loss of life on a navy vessel since the USS FRANKLIN (CV 13) was bombed in WWII. The ship proceeded to Cubi Point in the Philippines for temporary repairs. In only eight days enough repairs were made that she could start the long trip back to her home port of Norfolk, Virginia for permanent repairs. On her way home she was capable of operating aircraft if needed.
FORRESTAL would spend seven months in the yards being repaired, she was re-built from the hanger up and forward to aircraft elevator number four, this accounts for about 1/5 the ships length and 5 decks. On April 8, 1968 FORRESTAL was once again ready to take her place in the fleet, she was never to return to Vietnam."
This is a little outside the 30 year limit, but very important to the discussion at hand
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/shi p/cv-59.htm "On July 29, 1967 the USS Forrestal was operating off the coast of Vietnam, when a Zuni rocket accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom into a parked and armed A-4 Skyhawk. The impact caused the belly fuel tank and a 1,000 pound bomb on the Skyhawk to fall off, spilling JP5 (jet fuel) onto the flight deck and ignited a fire. The bomb exploded, causing a massive chain reaction of explosions fed by fuel and bombs from other aircraft that were armed and ready for the coming strike. Fuel and bombs spilled into the holes in the flight deck igniting fires on lower decks. This was the single worst loss of life on a navy vessel since the USS Franklin (CV-13) was bombed in WWII: 134 lost their lives, while an additional 64 were injured."
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/fires/ "Forrestal was operating off Vietnam at the time of the fire. A Zuni rocket was accidentally launched on deck (due to an electrical problem), hitting a parked A-4, and igniting its drop tank. The fire then spread to other aircraft, and bombs began to explode on deck. The fire burned for 13 hours, killed 134 crew and caused the loss of 21 aircraft, some of which were pushed overboard before the fire reached them. 7 holes were blown in the flight deck. Repairs took 7 months, requiring complete removal and reconstruction of the aft section of the ship down to the hangar floor. This was the worst carrier fire in postwar years. The ship has carried the nickname "Forrest Fire" ever since. Films shot during the fire are still show in the course of basic training for all sailors"
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/fires/ "Oriskany was operating off Vietnam at the time of the fire. Two sailors were storing flares in a space at the starboard forward corner of the hangar deck. One of the flares lit accidentally, and the sailor threw it into the locker and closed the hatch. The locker contained 650 flares, which quickly lit. The resulting fire caused extensive damage to the ship and killed 44 men. The entire forward section of the ship from the hangar floor up was gutted."
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/fires/ "Enterprise was operating off Hawaii at the time. The sequence of events was similar to the Forrestal fire, starting with a rocket overheating due to exhaust from a flight deck vehicle and "cooking off". The rocket hit another aircraft, which ignited and touched off a flight deck disaster. The fire was put out within 4 hours. Damage, although severe, was less extensive than that caused by Forrestal fire. The nuclear powered USS Bainbridge was one of Enterprise's escorts, and according to one of her sailors she vastly surpassed her rated speed of "30+" knots while racing to the carrier's aid. The next day the frigate escorted the carrier into Pearl Harbor, and the atmosphere was said to be not unlike prevailing mood when the previous USS Enterprise (CV 6) returned to Pearl Harbor the day after the Japanese attack. "
USS Cole http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy /ddg-67.htm "At 11:18 on the morning of October 12, 2000, as USS Cole (DDG 67) was refueling in Aden Harbor, Yemen, suicide bombers detonated an explosive-laden boat directly against the port side of the ship. The resulting blast killed 17 Sailors, wounded 37 others, and tore a hole forty by sixty feet in the ship's hull.
In the aftermath of the explosion, the crew of USS Cole fought tirelessly to free shipmates trapped by the twisted wreckage and limit flooding that threatened to sink their ship. The crew's prompt actions to isolate damaged electrical systems and contain fuel oil ruptures prevented catastrophic fires that could have engulfed the ship and cost the lives of countless men and women."
USS Stark
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy /ffg-31.htm "During the 1987 deployment, Stark was struck by two missiles fired by Iraqi aircraft. The fires that resulted claimed 37 lives and wounding 21. Today the only remaining sign of this tragic event is the memorial engraving mounted in the midships' passageway, which lists the names of the lost shipmates.
The frigate was heavily damaged and could only be saved by the effective help of the crew."
On May 2 the World War II-vintage Argentine light cruiser ARA General Belgrano -- formerly the USS Phoenix (CL-46), a survivor of the 1941 Pearl Harbor attacks -- was sunk by HMS Conqueror, using WWII vintage design Mk 8 mod 4 torpedoes. 321 lives were lost, although initial casualty reports were confused. In all, 323 Argentines died, half of all their War losses.
HMS Sheffield
Two days after the General Belgrano sinking, on May 4, the British lost the Type 42 destroyer HMS Sheffield to fire following an Exocet missile strike. Sheffield had been ordered forward with two other Type 42s in order to provide a radar and missile "picket" far from the British carriers. After the ships were detected by an Argentine Navy (ARA) P-2 Neptune patrol aircraft, two ARA Dassault Super Étendards were launched, each armed with a single Exocet. Refuelled by a C-130 Hercules shortly after launch, they went in at low altitude, popped up for a radar check and released the missiles from 20 to 30 miles (30 to 50 km) away.
In addition there were casualties due to mining in the Persian Gulf during the 1980s and Desert Storm I'm too tried to look up:)
Slashdot Mirror
7.62.
M-14, the rifle from the Basic Training there in the first part is a 7.62mm caliber weapon, the M-16 is a 5.56mm
This sort of thing is being funded under the next-generation space reconnaissance satellite programs for the follow-on programs for the KH-11/12 and Lacrosse birds as well as the sats used to detect IR plumes of rockets and nuclear detonations.
I saw it in Janes a while back, no time to find sources right now, working on papers for Grad School.
What did he use to shield the neutrons or did he just suck them up?
India doesn't have the heavy-lift rocket capability right now and it is unlikely they will develop it on thier own within 13 years. Of course they could contract out to the Russians but that doesn't really fufill the nationalistic drive to do it yourself.
Not to mention develop the skillsets and the hardware to land and return.
Besides that, Indian aerospace programs have had a really hard time keeping up with thier schedules, for example the HAL Tejas has taken much longer to develop that planned for.
Actually, most airports in the United States are not Federal property. I can't think of any public airports in the United States which are owned by the Federal Government.
Our International Airport here in Portland Oregon is owned by the Port of Portland.
Here are some of the big ones here in the US and thier owner
O'Hare - Chicago City Department of Aviation
JFK - Port Authority of New York and New Jersey
Denver - DEN - City & County of Denver Department of Aviation
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport - Department of Aviation of the City of Atlanta
Washington Dulles International Airport - Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (MWAA)
LAX - Los Angeles World Airports
Miami International Airport - Miami-Dade County Aviation Department
It was flying around WoW General Channel a few hours ago, when it got linked on Drudge. Then it filtered down into Guild channels, I logged for the night when the 5th rotation of explanations started for people just logging into the Guild.
Fahrbot, sorry for your loss, my Uncle had surgery in 1989 and was able to stay with us for 10 months.
Actually, the fanatical pro-lifers have been very good about using the Internet to organize and target folks.
Type "pro-life website" for a Google search once, there are tons of websites out there. Also search for "pro-life website target" and you will find many references to sites being used to organize and target organizations and individuals by the Pro-Life movement.
Actually Israel's nuclear delivery systems are traditionally thought to be free-fall gravity bombs and SRBM/IRBMs based off the Jericho series of missiles. The AGM-142 series "Popeye" missile is also thought to be nuclear capable, that is what the new submarine based cruise missile is based on.
s sile.htme l/iaf-equipment.htmc trine.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/mi
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/isra
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/israel/do
"'Fancy' usually amounts to an Olive Garden or some other such chain restaurant,"
I think you are confusing fancy with family here. If they will serve you if you aren't wearing slacks, a jacket and a tie, it's not a fancy restaurant. Hell casual fancy don't require the jacket and tie anymore, but pants and a decent shirt are required, I can get service in Olive Garden wearing long shorts, it's much more of a family chain than a fancy chain.
Actually, no, cancer death rates are falling.
c ancer_11-14.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/november96/
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/nov96/nci-14.htm
From 1996 - "Cancer death rates have dropped three percent since 1990, that's 15,000 fewer Americans succumbing to the disease every year."
"Since about 1900, the American people have regularly been required to report causes of death, and we have fairly accurate information dating back that far. This is reported through the National Center for Health Statistics. And actually, Dr. Phil Cole, from the University of Alabama, was the first one to identify looking at information through 1994/95 and adding up all the causes of cancer death. And he was the first to identify this trend from the total death cases, dating back to 1990 as a peak year, so '91, '92, '93, '94, and now '95, the death rate has gone down, and what's even more encouraging is in '95, the decrease was almost 2 percent. So depending on how you calculate it, the rate of decrease in deaths is actually accelerating, very good news, indeed."
"Tha cancer cure rate hasn't changed since the 60s. We can detect it earlier. Actually that's also true if you compare it to 1902."
Incorrect, cancer cure and survival rates have gotten better since the 1960s.
Of course though secret prisons/cell-blocks/wings for intelligence work have been used for about as long as there have been Nation-States and Intelligence operations, so what the CIA is doing isn't anything really new except for the fact that they shuffle people around in other countries.
When one operates as a spy or irregular military operative traditionally they don't have near the same rights or protections as a uniformed military or diplomatic operative. But now things are different in terms of the media and the general public's mind as to how these people are treated while the actual treatment of said operatives continues on as it has in times of war for hundreds of years.
On the other hand much could and likely will survive. We have dinosaur's footprints, eggs, skin and poo which has survived. We have the banks of an ancient river at Dinosaur National Monument and we have the Burgess Shales in Canada. We have the gigatons of Banded Iron Formations world wide as evidence of bacteria which has survived hundreds of millions if not billions of years. Steel, concrete, titanium and aluminum constructs will survive for hundreds of millions of years in some way, shape or form.
Likely many machine parts, plastics, and larger artifacts will survive. The Pyramids, Statute of Liberty and Golden Gate are bad examples. The Pyramids are made of a softer stone, and the Statue of Liberty and Golden Gate are in corrosive environments. How about the granite in buildings, the great concrete dams of the world, titanium and steel blades of gas turbines, biomedical implants will all be here, baring the Sun going nova ahead of time.
Asphalt or tar compounds
. php4 05_060405_teeth_drill_2.html
These have more info than the BBC story
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/05/news/teeth
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0
I was undergoing an outpatient operation on the scrotal area in 1999. I was given local, they waited till we all thought it was numb, then they opened me up...
They used an electrical cauterizer to keep the bleeding down...it sounded like the lightning gun in Q3A and felt like what you can imagine electricity against the scrotal area feels like.
I said, "Doctor, I can feel that." He zapped me and said, "you felt that?"
I never was able to play Q3A again because of that lightning gun sound.
A Spinal Tap is pretty bad, migraines since my stroke are bad, but the cauterizer was worse.
Thats is sloppy on the BBC's part, they should have put the State in there. In this case it is Minnesota.
e rground_mine/physicslab.html
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_parks/soudan_und
Tom Clancy talked about using cosmic radiation emissions/noise as a one time pad in Cardinal of the Kremlin in 1988. I don't remember what exactly the source was, as it's been a long time since I read it. I do know there was a subplot about this system, which would record the noise to CDs and there was another random hardware bit vs. a math based system from NSA, the NSA plan was approved and the Soviets broke it and were reading the NSA/State's "mail".
It is not called the Global War on Islamist Terror because of political niceties and because we need bases in nations with strong Islamic populations (the 'Stans, Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia (not anymore though), Jordan, and North Africa).
The Second World War was a war on fascism, it was ended although some fascist states continued to exsist (Spain, Argentina).
The Korean War ended in 1953 although technically the state of war still exists between the United States, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea and the People's Republic of China and the United Nations states who sent forces to Korea.
A war can be ended even though the threat still exists. The threat will be marginalized and the various aspects of the war will spin down and fade into the background.
Sure, why can't it be won? The conflict against Fascism/Nazism was won and while places like Spain held out, it largely went away. Imperial Japan's cult of Militarism was defeated.
Stalinist Communism was rolled back in Europe, the Americas, Africa and Asia for the most part.
Islamist Terrorism can be defeated or marginalized too.
The whole America=Rome thing has been done to death, so has the Sports=Circus/Arena thing.
Lets look at that. In Rome and other urban centers during the late Republic and Empire the Circus and Colosseum were diversions that the public demanded. Holidays were declared, taxes not gathered and most of the public didn't work, they went to the Circus and the Colosseum for games. If there weren't games or even enough games there was civil unrest of the sort that'd make the Rodney King riots look like a game.
Now in the modern western world the games are a diversion for sure, but they are a profit making venture not for the the government or to control the rage of the mob but purely entertainment. The analogy of modern games to Roman games is shown to be false when there are strikes and professional sporting seasons don't happen (MLB, NBA, NHL in the last 15 years for example) and there is no civil unrest. Had three to six months of no games occured in Rome or Constantinople there'd likely not be any ruins to visit today as the mob would have destroyed it all.
Now then if we look at restrictions put on people in the United States, United Kingdom, or Canada during the American Civil War, First and Second World Wars and compare those restrictions to what is happening during this Global War on Terror, you'll see that the reaction now is much less invasive than it was during those conflicts.
Well, except of course for the low level raids run by F-111s, A-10s, AV-8B Harriers in addition to the strafing runs carried out by F-16, F-15, F-18, F-15 and F-14s over the years.
Anyway, take a look at what the Armada Argentina Super Etendards and the Fuerza Aérea Argentina MIRAGE III EA and A-4s did to the Royal Navy. 4 warships sunk and 12 damaged on the Royal Navy side, all by surface strikes by the Armada Argentina and Fuerza Aérea Argentina by low level, long range attacks conducted without fighter cover.
As for the Royal Air Force's low level capabilites, as soon as Tornado is retired the RAF won't have any as Typhoon isn't a low level strike platform.
If there were less people on board, the fires would have gone out of control. The Forrestal is the most important one to look at. Fire on the deck, fire teams sent in, munitions explode, killing most of the firefighters and damaging the hoses. Aviation fuel drips down into the interior of the ship through holes in the deck from the munitions cooking off. To stop the fires on the deck, human wave attacks were required.
s /histories/cv59-forrestal/forrestal-fire.html
Reducing the crew reduces casualties and it reduces redundant crew members, which in a war or accident are needed when there are casualties.
If the Forrestal had a smaller crew and all the firefighters are out of commission, what is going to put out the fire? A computer?
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carrier
http://navysite.de/cvn/cv59.htm#acc
"On July 29, 1967 the USS FORRESTAL was operating on Yankee Station off the coast of North Vietnam conducting combat operations. This was the fifth such day of operations and at 10:52am the crew was starting the second launch cycle of the day, when suddenly a Zuni rocket accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom into a parked and armed A-4 Skyhawk. The accidental launch and subsequent impact caused the belly fuel tank and a 1,000 pound bomb on the Skyhawk to fall off, the tank broke open spilling JP5 (jet fuel) onto the flight deck and ignited a fire. Within a minute and a half the bomb was the first to cook-off and explode, this caused a massive chain reaction of explosions that engulfed half the airwings aircraft, and blew huge holes in the steel flight deck. Fed by fuel and bombs from other aircraft that were armed and ready for the coming strike, the fire spread quickly, many pilots and support personnel were trapped and burned alive.
Fuel and bombs spilled into the holes in the flight deck igniting fires on decks further into the bowels of the ship. Berthing spaces immediately below the flight deck became death traps for fifty men, while other crewmen were blown overboard by the explosion.
Nearby ships hastened to the FORRESTAL's aid. The ORISKANY (CV 34), herself a victim of a tragic fire in October 1966, stood by to offer fire-fighting and medical aid to the larger carrier. Nearby escort vessels sprayed water on the burning FORRESTAL and within an hour the fire on the flight deck was under control. The crew heroically fought the fire and carried armed bombs to the side of the ship to throw them overboard for 13 hours. Secondary fires below deck took another 12 hours to contain."
"Once the fires were under control, the extent of the devastation was apparent. Most tragic was the loss to the crew, 134 had lost their lives, while an additional 64 were injured, this was and still remains the single worst loss of life on a navy vessel since the USS FRANKLIN (CV 13) was bombed in WWII. The ship proceeded to Cubi Point in the Philippines for temporary repairs. In only eight days enough repairs were made that she could start the long trip back to her home port of Norfolk, Virginia for permanent repairs. On her way home she was capable of operating aircraft if needed.
FORRESTAL would spend seven months in the yards being repaired, she was re-built from the hanger up and forward to aircraft elevator number four, this accounts for about 1/5 the ships length and 5 decks. On April 8, 1968 FORRESTAL was once again ready to take her place in the fleet, she was never to return to Vietnam."
Oh, and the Carrier fires...
i p/cv-59.htm
This is a little outside the 30 year limit, but very important to the discussion at hand
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/sh
"On July 29, 1967 the USS Forrestal was operating off the coast of Vietnam, when a Zuni rocket accidentally fired from an F-4 Phantom into a parked and armed A-4 Skyhawk. The impact caused the belly fuel tank and a 1,000 pound bomb on the Skyhawk to fall off, spilling JP5 (jet fuel) onto the flight deck and ignited a fire. The bomb exploded, causing a massive chain reaction of explosions fed by fuel and bombs from other aircraft that were armed and ready for the coming strike. Fuel and bombs spilled into the holes in the flight deck igniting fires on lower decks. This was the single worst loss of life on a navy vessel since the USS Franklin (CV-13) was bombed in WWII: 134 lost their lives, while an additional 64 were injured."
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/fires/
"Forrestal was operating off Vietnam at the time of the fire. A Zuni rocket was accidentally launched on deck (due to an electrical problem), hitting a parked A-4, and igniting its drop tank. The fire then spread to other aircraft, and bombs began to explode on deck. The fire burned for 13 hours, killed 134 crew and caused the loss of 21 aircraft, some of which were pushed overboard before the fire reached them. 7 holes were blown in the flight deck. Repairs took 7 months, requiring complete removal and reconstruction of the aft section of the ship down to the hangar floor. This was the worst carrier fire in postwar years. The ship has carried the nickname "Forrest Fire" ever since. Films shot during the fire are still show in the course of basic training for all sailors"
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/fires/
"Oriskany was operating off Vietnam at the time of the fire. Two sailors were storing flares in a space at the starboard forward corner of the hangar deck. One of the flares lit accidentally, and the sailor threw it into the locker and closed the hatch. The locker contained 650 flares, which quickly lit. The resulting fire caused extensive damage to the ship and killed 44 men. The entire forward section of the ship from the hangar floor up was gutted."
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/fires/
"Enterprise was operating off Hawaii at the time. The sequence of events was similar to the Forrestal fire, starting with a rocket overheating due to exhaust from a flight deck vehicle and "cooking off". The rocket hit another aircraft, which ignited and touched off a flight deck disaster. The fire was put out within 4 hours. Damage, although severe, was less extensive than that caused by Forrestal fire. The nuclear powered USS Bainbridge was one of Enterprise's escorts, and according to one of her sailors she vastly surpassed her rated speed of "30+" knots while racing to the carrier's aid. The next day the frigate escorted the carrier into Pearl Harbor, and the atmosphere was said to be not unlike prevailing mood when the previous USS Enterprise (CV 6) returned to Pearl Harbor the day after the Japanese attack. "
There have been a good number
y /ddg-67.htm
y /ffg-31.htm
g _of_the_Belgrano
:)
USS Cole
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/nav
"At 11:18 on the morning of October 12, 2000, as USS Cole (DDG 67) was refueling in Aden Harbor, Yemen, suicide bombers detonated an explosive-laden boat directly against the port side of the ship. The resulting blast killed 17 Sailors, wounded 37 others, and tore a hole forty by sixty feet in the ship's hull.
In the aftermath of the explosion, the crew of USS Cole fought tirelessly to free shipmates trapped by the twisted wreckage and limit flooding that threatened to sink their ship. The crew's prompt actions to isolate damaged electrical systems and contain fuel oil ruptures prevented catastrophic fires that could have engulfed the ship and cost the lives of countless men and women."
USS Stark
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/nav
"During the 1987 deployment, Stark was struck by two missiles fired by Iraqi aircraft. The fires that resulted claimed 37 lives and wounding 21. Today the only remaining sign of this tragic event is the memorial engraving mounted in the midships' passageway, which lists the names of the lost shipmates.
The frigate was heavily damaged and could only be saved by the effective help of the crew."
ARA Belgrano
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War#Sinkin
On May 2 the World War II-vintage Argentine light cruiser ARA General Belgrano -- formerly the USS Phoenix (CL-46), a survivor of the 1941 Pearl Harbor attacks -- was sunk by HMS Conqueror, using WWII vintage design Mk 8 mod 4 torpedoes. 321 lives were lost, although initial casualty reports were confused. In all, 323 Argentines died, half of all their War losses.
HMS Sheffield
Two days after the General Belgrano sinking, on May 4, the British lost the Type 42 destroyer HMS Sheffield to fire following an Exocet missile strike. Sheffield had been ordered forward with two other Type 42s in order to provide a radar and missile "picket" far from the British carriers. After the ships were detected by an Argentine Navy (ARA) P-2 Neptune patrol aircraft, two ARA Dassault Super Étendards were launched, each armed with a single Exocet. Refuelled by a C-130 Hercules shortly after launch, they went in at low altitude, popped up for a radar check and released the missiles from 20 to 30 miles (30 to 50 km) away.
In addition there were casualties due to mining in the Persian Gulf during the 1980s and Desert Storm I'm too tried to look up