Brad and I came up with that idea (he put it in practice) sitting around debating about Doom maps waaaaaaay back in the day. It's too bad the thing got hijacked from him a couple years back.
I can't believe I'm a small part of Doom nostalgia. Mom said I'd always amount to something!
I was a *freak* for vegetables a child. I still enjoy them a lot. Stopping to think about it, though, I distinctly remember wanting to eat more green vegetables after watching Popeye.
It's anecdotal, but I can sort of see this working.
It's probably a combination of ego/fun/being tired of MS being a bunch of dickweeds regarding security. What's wrong with one having pride in one's profession, and doing something about it when you see that it's going down the tubes?
People can just put their music collection on a thumb drive and pass it around. they can go back to the old days where people would pass pirated stuff around on floppy or tape.
Granted, they have to get that music from the outside world in the first place, but that's one more advantage to living off campus!
Holy shit, it's like they were able to see inside my mind for 5 minutes! I don't know if I should feel scared, in awe, or just regard Wave as another amusing internet sprocket. I can't say I've contributed anything to this discussion other than "Hey that's really COOL!"
What about the law that protects these works for what many would view as an overly long and culturally/intellectually/societally injurious length of time?
Oh, right, change the laws.
What about the legal system that favors the powerful corporations who lobby to have these protections put up in the first place?
Why not boycott the companies and stop buying their products so they fail.
What about the fact that people are, and yet these entities are so large and so entrenched that nothing less than government intervention will change them?
Oh, change government you say?
Well what about the general helplessness and clueless nature of 90% of people about the system, how it runs, and how to change its "Brazil"-esque nature?
Change the culture, you say?
Well how about big media's hold on news media, entertainment, and advertising?...yet MORE questions that can't be answered easily and that constantly come up on Slashdot.
It really isn't that simple, and all it takes is a little intellectual rigor to realize that. Using a generalized ad hominem attack just because someone says they want to pirate something doesn't seem useful.
It sounds like my dad when he wants to ignore facts and what is in front of him in favor of hoping that the problem will just magically disappear. It's not taking personal responsibility for a system which, from certain points of view, is incredibly fucked up.
Regardless, some people will place meaning onto that art.
Andy Warhol knew it, he made nonsensical crap, and people still consider that art. People put meaning onto things to make sense of their world. Even a security video, in the right context, could be construed as art.
Ebert's argument that games can be won or lost, and hence are not art, is absurd.
Just like an opera with a start and finish, games must have a start and finish as well. The fact that we are motivated to experience them by winning or losing (perhaps), rather than going to the opera so we feel cultured or whatever should make no difference. People MUST be motivated to experience art, or it has no audience.
Also, there is art that is interactive. It has a start and an end as well. There is a piece at the Museum of Modern Art in New York, I believe, where you talk to people and interview them, and they show you around. It's interactive performance art. One could even view these experiences as a game: Who can ask the best questions to elicit a "better" experience? If it were possible to break down these experiences to neurons fired in the recipient, or amount of endorphins released for instance, could that participant theoretically "win"? I can see a future where games can measure those changes in the body, so by Ebert's argument does that make them not art?
In the same way that a song in opera can influence an audience member's emotions, games mold the emotions, learning processes, and reactions of the participant.
Finally, as a Slashdot geek I will reference Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. If played BY THE RULES, to the letter, it is quite an elegant and fairly well-balanced system. One could argue that the rules themselves really are crafted to elicit certain emotions (like the fact that magic items make saving throws and can be easily destroyed) from the participants. It is a template, a filter, to overlay a simple art, the story. One type of art (somewhat analytical) over an emotional one.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I understand that we should draw the line somewhere. What is art? Is it everything around us? If so, then why does it have significance? As someone above said, it has cultural influence.
In a group of people, if I say "The cake is a lie" and they all hear me, it's likely that at least one of those people will recognize what I'm talking about, or laugh if the situation warrants it. I would count that as cultural influence. Absurd? Perhaps. Maybe that's part of what is defining our current cultural climate (a bunny with a pancake on its head, for instance).
Maybe, but with good scotch or wine, one is fairly assured of a reasonably enjoyable experience.
With the kind of crap some of these developers sneeze out it might just piss people off and generate a lot of bad PR. It might generate a little revenue, too, since you buy the demo *and* the full game.
Now if they offered a discount on the full game if one purchases the demo, that might be easier to swallow.
I'm not sure that I have the proper authorization to comment on that... but I'll bet there are quite a few slashdotters who have many of those types of sites bookmarked!
It would feel delicious, to me, that right when the iPad comes out, designed for people to consume more ephemeral and pointless information than ever, that a site like this would make itself slightly more exclusive by moving backwards on the user interface timeline.
You know, drugs, pirated content, and discussion groups all contribute to terrorism! Goodbye erowid, bittorrent, and slashdot! Extreme and unlikely, but it can happen now and that's the awful thing. This is ridiculous.
In this age of information, there should be some sort of amendment added to the rules where the people themselves can weigh in on bills like this and kill them before they get anywhere.
Ok, someone can whack my karma for this, but here goes:
Thanks for the reply!
That experience sounds terrible. In fact, if we *do* end up somehow getting in touch (for Pride or just email) I def. have some questions that it sounds like you'd be willing to field. We actually are in Andersonville, just north and the quieter version of Boys' Town on the north side.
One of my interests is something you kind of brought up: Male/female rights and cultural views/roles, and "hegemonic masculinity/femininity".
I've slowly begun getting to know a couple MtF's and FtM's (my girlfriend was recently at a small discussion with Lee Harrington actually) That courage is incredible and an inspiration.
Yeah, friends are good. If you come into town and want to meet, we (girlfriend and I) might be able to introduce you to a few people. If you're cool emailing it sounds like there's a possibility of a good conversation. We can talk to a couple people in the Minnesota scene and ask for some guidance, if that helps you at all. However, I know one couple who moved from there specifically because it's pretty oppressive up there. It's not San Francisco here in Chi-town (of course) but it's better.
This isn't entirely on topic, but here goes: I wait, often years, to play a game. Unless it's downloadable only like Star Monkey or Thomas & the Magic Words (for instance), I wait until the next generation of games has come out, typically. There's a sweet spot where the games get REALLY cheap and I can snap them up at bargain basement prices.
I try to keep a "wanted" list over time and it immensely lowers my cost for gaming. I'm still buying and playing ps2, xbox, and dreamcast titles that still have life left.
There is only so much time, why try to keep up and not get my money's worth from games? Will I get a 360 or PS3? Eventually, but probably not until the new systems have come out and I've finished picking the bones of the PS2
That's my patience. It's ingrained in the way I game. So, DRM? What's that? I haven't even played a game that has it, yet.
--Off topic--: I have a number of friends in alternative lifetsyles/communities in the Twin Cities (that's all MN is, right?), if you're really looking I can ask around. Hey, always happy to help a fellow geek, right?
Oh, and perhaps the above poster was going for levity. One hopes.
Does that mean that we should send people who know what they're doing to sort through results and draw more meaningful conclusions? Or just rerun the tests?
This seems obvious, so please don't waste mod points here, people who know what they're actually talking about will probably chime in.
The mental image I get is a political cartoon with a poor-looking child, America, stomping up and down with a black cloud over it's head screaming "It was MY idea! MY idea!" and adults with country names on their dress shirts are faced away, sitting at a table, talking with each other or sipping drinks and laughing.
I'm sorry, I don't have references, but someone was explaining to me that the parts and construction for the LHC are excessively shoddy. He mentioned the size of the magnets and, I believe, mentioned that they weren't really tested before being put in place. His beef was that the whole thing is basically just a huge money sinkhole and may not ever produce the kinds of results it promises.
So, if we try and hold ISPs or telecoms liable for what moves over their wires, they would have to hunt down the spammers as well as the pirates? What an awkward position to be in, especially when a big revenue stream is at stake. Yeah, I didn't RTFA.
Also, what percentage of email is 3 billion, anyway?
I would tend to agree with you. We *should* be careful of any kind of pedagogue/religion, especially ideas including the promise of a bright future.
On the other hand, if we don't dream and only consider what's in front of us, will that be ok and get us where humanity should go? (btw, I have no idea where humanity SHOULD go, just where *I* think it should go, please feel free to debate this)
Slashdot Mirror
ha! Skulltag!
Brad and I came up with that idea (he put it in practice) sitting around debating about Doom maps waaaaaaay back in the day. It's too bad the thing got hijacked from him a couple years back.
I can't believe I'm a small part of Doom nostalgia. Mom said I'd always amount to something!
I was a *freak* for vegetables a child. I still enjoy them a lot. Stopping to think about it, though, I distinctly remember wanting to eat more green vegetables after watching Popeye.
It's anecdotal, but I can sort of see this working.
It's probably a combination of ego/fun/being tired of MS being a bunch of dickweeds regarding security. What's wrong with one having pride in one's profession, and doing something about it when you see that it's going down the tubes?
People can just put their music collection on a thumb drive and pass it around. they can go back to the old days where people would pass pirated stuff around on floppy or tape.
Granted, they have to get that music from the outside world in the first place, but that's one more advantage to living off campus!
This whole thing just plain stinks.
One of the developers just wrote to Steve Jobs on a whim, and Steve wrote back?
Plus the app is still in the store.
PLUS this guy knocks android as "the wild west", ALL in the same statement. Sounds like FUD and PR all at the same time
Holy shit, it's like they were able to see inside my mind for 5 minutes!
I don't know if I should feel scared, in awe, or just regard Wave as another amusing internet sprocket. I can't say I've contributed anything to this discussion other than "Hey that's really COOL!"
As simple as that, eh?
What about the law that protects these works for what many would view as an overly long and culturally/intellectually/societally injurious length of time?
Oh, right, change the laws.
What about the legal system that favors the powerful corporations who lobby to have these protections put up in the first place?
Why not boycott the companies and stop buying their products so they fail.
What about the fact that people are, and yet these entities are so large and so entrenched that nothing less than government intervention will change them?
Oh, change government you say?
Well what about the general helplessness and clueless nature of 90% of people about the system, how it runs, and how to change its "Brazil"-esque nature?
Change the culture, you say?
Well how about big media's hold on news media, entertainment, and advertising? ...yet MORE questions that can't be answered easily and that constantly come up on Slashdot.
It really isn't that simple, and all it takes is a little intellectual rigor to realize that. Using a generalized ad hominem attack just because someone says they want to pirate something doesn't seem useful.
It sounds like my dad when he wants to ignore facts and what is in front of him in favor of hoping that the problem will just magically disappear. It's not taking personal responsibility for a system which, from certain points of view, is incredibly fucked up.
Just my two cents.
"LOx & Bagels"!
Regardless, some people will place meaning onto that art.
Andy Warhol knew it, he made nonsensical crap, and people still consider that art. People put meaning onto things to make sense of their world. Even a security video, in the right context, could be construed as art.
Ebert's argument that games can be won or lost, and hence are not art, is absurd.
Just like an opera with a start and finish, games must have a start and finish as well. The fact that we are motivated to experience them by winning or losing (perhaps), rather than going to the opera so we feel cultured or whatever should make no difference. People MUST be motivated to experience art, or it has no audience.
Also, there is art that is interactive. It has a start and an end as well. There is a piece at the Museum of Modern Art in New York, I believe, where you talk to people and interview them, and they show you around. It's interactive performance art. One could even view these experiences as a game: Who can ask the best questions to elicit a "better" experience? If it were possible to break down these experiences to neurons fired in the recipient, or amount of endorphins released for instance, could that participant theoretically "win"? I can see a future where games can measure those changes in the body, so by Ebert's argument does that make them not art?
In the same way that a song in opera can influence an audience member's emotions, games mold the emotions, learning processes, and reactions of the participant.
Finally, as a Slashdot geek I will reference Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. If played BY THE RULES, to the letter, it is quite an elegant and fairly well-balanced system. One could argue that the rules themselves really are crafted to elicit certain emotions (like the fact that magic items make saving throws and can be easily destroyed) from the participants. It is a template, a filter, to overlay a simple art, the story. One type of art (somewhat analytical) over an emotional one.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I understand that we should draw the line somewhere. What is art? Is it everything around us? If so, then why does it have significance? As someone above said, it has cultural influence.
In a group of people, if I say "The cake is a lie" and they all hear me, it's likely that at least one of those people will recognize what I'm talking about, or laugh if the situation warrants it. I would count that as cultural influence. Absurd? Perhaps. Maybe that's part of what is defining our current cultural climate (a bunny with a pancake on its head, for instance).
Maybe, but with good scotch or wine, one is fairly assured of a reasonably enjoyable experience.
With the kind of crap some of these developers sneeze out it might just piss people off and generate a lot of bad PR. It might generate a little revenue, too, since you buy the demo *and* the full game.
Now if they offered a discount on the full game if one purchases the demo, that might be easier to swallow.
I'm not sure that I have the proper authorization to comment on that... but I'll bet there are quite a few slashdotters who have many of those types of sites bookmarked!
It would feel delicious, to me, that right when the iPad comes out, designed for people to consume more ephemeral and pointless information than ever, that a site like this would make itself slightly more exclusive by moving backwards on the user interface timeline.
Bless your heart, xkcd!
You know, drugs, pirated content, and discussion groups all contribute to terrorism!
Goodbye erowid, bittorrent, and slashdot! Extreme and unlikely, but it can happen now and that's the awful thing. This is ridiculous.
In this age of information, there should be some sort of amendment added to the rules where the people themselves can weigh in on bills like this and kill them before they get anywhere.
So I don't have to wait for the DVD to come in the mail, huh? That's awfully con-Wii-nient!
Ok, someone can whack my karma for this, but here goes:
Thanks for the reply!
That experience sounds terrible. In fact, if we *do* end up somehow getting in touch (for Pride or just email) I def. have some questions that it sounds like you'd be willing to field. We actually are in Andersonville, just north and the quieter version of Boys' Town on the north side.
One of my interests is something you kind of brought up: Male/female rights and cultural views/roles, and "hegemonic masculinity/femininity".
I've slowly begun getting to know a couple MtF's and FtM's (my girlfriend was recently at a small discussion with Lee Harrington actually) That courage is incredible and an inspiration.
Yeah, friends are good. If you come into town and want to meet, we (girlfriend and I) might be able to introduce you to a few people. If you're cool emailing it sounds like there's a possibility of a good conversation. We can talk to a couple people in the Minnesota scene and ask for some guidance, if that helps you at all. However, I know one couple who moved from there specifically because it's pretty oppressive up there. It's not San Francisco here in Chi-town (of course) but it's better.
Alright, mod me down!!
This isn't entirely on topic, but here goes: I wait, often years, to play a game. Unless it's downloadable only like Star Monkey or Thomas & the Magic Words (for instance), I wait until the next generation of games has come out, typically. There's a sweet spot where the games get REALLY cheap and I can snap them up at bargain basement prices.
I try to keep a "wanted" list over time and it immensely lowers my cost for gaming. I'm still buying and playing ps2, xbox, and dreamcast titles that still have life left.
There is only so much time, why try to keep up and not get my money's worth from games? Will I get a 360 or PS3? Eventually, but probably not until the new systems have come out and I've finished picking the bones of the PS2
That's my patience. It's ingrained in the way I game. So, DRM? What's that? I haven't even played a game that has it, yet.
--Off topic--: I have a number of friends in alternative lifetsyles/communities in the Twin Cities (that's all MN is, right?), if you're really looking I can ask around. Hey, always happy to help a fellow geek, right?
Oh, and perhaps the above poster was going for levity. One hopes.
Does that mean that we should send people who know what they're doing to sort through results and draw more meaningful conclusions? Or just rerun the tests?
This seems obvious, so please don't waste mod points here, people who know what they're actually talking about will probably chime in.
The mental image I get is a political cartoon with a poor-looking child, America, stomping up and down with a black cloud over it's head screaming "It was MY idea! MY idea!" and adults with country names on their dress shirts are faced away, sitting at a table, talking with each other or sipping drinks and laughing.
Good call.
I'm sorry, I don't have references, but someone was explaining to me that the parts and construction for the LHC are excessively shoddy. He mentioned the size of the magnets and, I believe, mentioned that they weren't really tested before being put in place. His beef was that the whole thing is basically just a huge money sinkhole and may not ever produce the kinds of results it promises.
As long as there's a "More Magic" switch I will be happy, and I'm not even going to buy one!
So, if we try and hold ISPs or telecoms liable for what moves over their wires, they would have to hunt down the spammers as well as the pirates? What an awkward position to be in, especially when a big revenue stream is at stake.
Yeah, I didn't RTFA.
Also, what percentage of email is 3 billion, anyway?
I actually know someone who was a Veep at Sun. She is unconcerned at the loss of her job and just purchased her third house on the west coast.
Take this however you'd like. I think it's obscene, but I don't make the rules.
I would tend to agree with you. We *should* be careful of any kind of pedagogue/religion, especially ideas including the promise of a bright future.
On the other hand, if we don't dream and only consider what's in front of us, will that be ok and get us where humanity should go? (btw, I have no idea where humanity SHOULD go, just where *I* think it should go, please feel free to debate this)